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Textex's Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down Thread Gone Wild!
Let's get organized and take action against Amway, the largest and most abusive MLM on the planet. Click my name to see my website. Who's in?
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
So how do you plan on doing this?
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
One step at the time, first let's do Herbalife. That will establish a due process and a precedent on a lot of cases of misleading and fabricating earning reports filed with SEC.
After that the road is open - most giant pyramids will have to go down or play by their own stated rules (which also means going down :) )
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
How do I plan on getting organized? Or how do I plan on taking down Amway? Or both? I think we can do Amway and Herbalife at the same time.
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Re: FlexKom - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Char
I agree, this is a good article.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Excellent article on why MLM is doomed by design: What's Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing?
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Re: FlexKom - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Stewart
I agree, this is a good article.
That article is far too complicated. The 2 questions to ask are:
1. What is the level of retail sales to those not in the pyramid? If less than 50%, it is an illegal pyramid, according to the FTC, SEC, and court rulings.
2. How much money is made from the training/motivation tool "side" business? If not reasonable to support the advertised business, it's a RICO fraud. I suggest 50% is a maximum number (for every dollar from the MLM, 50 cents can be made from the tools.
Click on my name and website for information on the world's largest MLM scam, most other MLMs have the problems noted above.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Char
As I said on another thread, "That article is far too complicated. The 2 questions to ask are:
1. What is the level of retail sales to those not in the pyramid? If less than 50%, it is an illegal pyramid, according to the FTC, SEC, and court rulings.
2. How much money is made from the training/motivation tool "side" business? If not reasonable to support the advertised business, it's a RICO fraud. I suggest 50% is a maximum number (for every dollar from the MLM, 50 cents can be made from the tools.
Click on my name and website for information on the world's largest MLM scam, most other MLMs have the problems noted above.
Also, this thread is about how to take down Amway, not a long discussion about what is wrong with MLM.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
If you really want to take down Amway, start by kicking out and never vote for congressmen who are on the take from Amway and DSA.
Till then, or till they cut their ties with DSA themselves, it will be long exhausting battle hard to win.
But the Herbalife case might be an eye opener for some politicians who backing up this crime now.
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Re: FlexKom - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Textex
While education helps, these scams are often very sophisticated, and most people will still get scammed. Therefore law enforcement needs to go after them HARD, in order to make them think twice about starting a new one.
People will always be scammed and law enforcement will never go after criminals as hard as we would like. People will always like to think they have found some special way to make money. Even in places where hands get chopped, bread still gets stolen.
While I would love to see life or damn near sentences for white collar crime, no punishment in the world will get most of the victims money back. The Madoff Ponzi will cost the taxpayer MILLIONS, that same cash could have educated tens of thousands to not let someone both control the money and the statements.
No matter crime will always be with us.
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Re: FlexKom - legitimate MLM or scam ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Textex
That article is far too complicated. The 2 questions to ask are:
1. What is the level of retail sales to those not in the pyramid? If less than 50%, it is an illegal pyramid, according to the FTC, SEC, and court rulings.
2. How much money is made from the training/motivation tool "side" business? If not reasonable to support the advertised business, it's a RICO fraud. I suggest 50% is a maximum number (for every dollar from the MLM, 50 cents can be made from the tools.
Click on my name and website for information on the world's largest MLM scam, most other MLMs have the problems noted above.
How about we move this conversation to this realscam thread that textex started: http://www.realscam.com/f9/amway-tru...hop-down-3101/
I'm chomping at the bit to respond to this.
All in favor?????
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Re: FlexKom - legitimate MLM or scam ??
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Originally Posted by
Char
Probably a good move to keep the Flexkom thread clean. Why not just copy the quote over and go, then folks can link back here if they want.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Textex
As I said on another thread, "That article is far too complicated. The 2 questions to ask are:
1. What is the level of retail sales to those not in the pyramid? If less than 50%, it is an illegal pyramid, according to the FTC, SEC, and court rulings.
2. How much money is made from the training/motivation tool "side" business? If not reasonable to support the advertised business, it's a RICO fraud. I suggest 50% is a maximum number (for every dollar from the MLM, 50 cents can be made from the tools.
Click on my name and website for information on the world's largest MLM scam, most other MLMs have the problems noted above.
Also, this thread is about how to take down Amway, not a long discussion about what is wrong with MLM.
I see. So you want to discuss that your car was hit by a drunk driver and talk about how to fix your car and reconfigure the intersection where it happened and make drunk driving illegal? And you find it irrelevant to discuss why alcohol impairs judgement and function???
Yes, the tools scam, rallies, and ridiculous prices are all valid arguments but I'd be wondering why they exist.
It's because one cannot make money in MLM in the traditional sense. The article I posted gets to the root of the problem - An inherent problem that cannot be fixed.
People will not be able to sell nor want to sell 50% of product. If I have to be a salesman, I'm going to apply for a job that pays me for my time with benefits and commission bonus. I'd expect a territory so saturation isn't a problem and my neighbor isn't selling the same thing etc. etc. People joining MLMs want to be business owners not sales people peddling crap and they don't want to work door to door. Tell them the truth and requirements to make it legal and they won't join. (see the inherent problem)
Just curious, do you think there are any good MLMs? Which ones?
Don't get me wrong, we are on the same side, I despise everything about Amway and wish you luck in this mission. I just think its important to explain to people why alcohol gets into your bloodstream and makes you impaired while driving. It's a necessary part of the discussion.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Char
... do you think there are any good MLMs? ...
can help you with that – good MLM is "dead" (busted) MLM :)
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Char
Tell them the truth and requirements to make it legal and they won't join. (see the inherent problem)
For my time, this is where it is at. BUT we all have our own methods and reasons for writing about it at all. Taking the granddaddy of them all Amway/Quixtar/Amquix/Plain old Amway year after year people hear the pitch and join. The company has done next to nothing to stop the tools scam. Dexter Yeager was still #1 , and most of his income wasn't coming from "self shoppers" last I heard. Maybe this has all been cleaned up. :RpS_wink:
Just this week the supreme court once again ruled that giving money to political parties is the same thing as free speech. Supreme Court strikes down aggregate campaign giving limits - Josh Gerstein and Byron Tau - POLITICO.com I try not to mix politics with scam busting, but if anyone thinks this sort of thing is going to give more ammo to the people than to Herbalife or Amway they might not have thought it through. Couple this with Citizens United, and I expect nothing but token actions out of our government. As a matter of public policy, I don't think either Ackman or Herbalife should be able to buy politicians, er I mean speak freely.
That leads me back to the conclusion that the only thing that will change in the near future is the number of people who fall for the sham that is MLM. Tell people that they will make $10 a week on average no matter how hard they work, how many seminars they attend, or how many tapes they listen to. Some will listen, others won't and every now and again someone will stop by and say thanks.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
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Originally Posted by
ribshaw
Things are returning to the middle ages, when the only option for regular folks to vote is with pitchforks and torches.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NikSam
can help you with that – good MLM is "dead" (busted) MLM :)
DEAD???? I say never born!!!!! NEVER EXISTED!!! People are just playing catch up and realizing there aren't any good mlms because of true life horror stories posted on the Internet which didn't exist back then.
I'm with you on the Nigerian letter scam. If enough word gets out, people will HOPEFULLY steer clear.
I don't care what the letter says, if it's from Nigeria then I'm not sending money, i.e. I don't care what crap you're selling, if it's MLM or network marketing, I'm not joining!!!
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
^^^^I wanted to clarify the DEAD never existed part - Meant to be a jestful comment to Niksam.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Amway's 6-4-2 plan and it's hidden caveat.
Actually this applies to all the...you get "x" who get "x" who get "x" plans.
It's sounds so easy when the recruiter says "you" find 6 people, who find 4, who find 2. "You" will make money and collect residual. "You" will be excited because "you" are making money. Now the caveat:
How do you think the "2" is feeling about Amway? He has no one and making zip. What's his incentive to stay? "4" was on his way but he just lost both of his "2s" who were not happy. "4" no longer has anyone and he leaves and so on.
6-4-2 and retirement is a fallacy - There will never be a happy "2". "You" can never stop recruiting because those without a downline will leave and that will trickle up to you.
^^^^Bet they don't point this out in any Amway meeting. And probably one of the many reasons all of us who have tried Amway aren't zillionaires like we thought we'd be.
I hope someone will find this explanation useful. To be honest, this caveat wasn't obvious to me for a long time and then my lightbulb flashed.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Don't worry about the "2"
What happens if there's 10 "you" at the meeting ???
It's even worse if there's 10 meetings happening in your city that night
Work out the numbers involved if every MLM meeting uses the "You get 6 who find 4 who find 2" scenario
Here's how a pyramid with " 6 who get 6" works
http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...psb69611ac.gif
http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5283defd.png
Now perhaps readers can understand how the saying "It's not Amway, is it ?" came into being in virtually every country in the Western world
One wonders how many people HAVEN'T been hit up at least once by an enthusiastic Amway recruiter.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Textex
How do I plan on getting organized? Or how do I plan on taking down Amway? Or both? I think we can do Amway and Herbalife at the same time.
MLMs are evolving systems that will die a natural death if they evolve too quickly or too slowly . There is not much an individual can do about "the rate of change" but we can point out that even the big ones like Amway and Herbalife have already evolved into a decaying mess.
Most of us know that one bad apple spoils a batch of them. The whole industry is infected and news has reached the search engines so keep up posting that news and that will hasten the rate of decay. Politicians can not do much about the natural evolution of any system.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
littleroundman
Don't worry about the "2"
What happens if there's 10 "you" at the meeting ???
It's even worse if there's 10 meetings happening in your city that night
Work out the numbers involved if every MLM meeting uses the
"You get 6 who find 4 who find 2" scenario
Here's how a pyramid with " 6 who get 6" works
http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...psb69611ac.gif
http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5283defd.png
Now perhaps readers can understand how the saying
"It's not Amway, is it ?" came into being in virtually every country in the Western world
One wonders how many people
HAVEN'T been hit up at least once by an enthusiastic Amway recruiter.
Scary isn't it???
One thing I was also trying to point out is the double speak which MLMs have perfected.
They make 6-4-2 sound so easy.
The double speak is that all those 6,4, and 2s essentially are "YOU" to all uplines MEANING you might be someones "2". The expectation however is that that "2" i. e. "you" are now expected to find "6". There can not actually be a 6, 4 or 2 end to survive because "2" doesn't make money and will drop. Now enter the pyramid diagram exponential when everyone needs six (which I just explained why) and we can clearly see the problem.
We have two problems connected.
All people will need "6" to make money and avoid drop outs but there aren't enough people in the world for all people to have "6".
Enter the need for outside sales. Problem, people don't sign up in MLM to be salesmen and if they were willing, it's hard to sell retail because the customer can just sign up and pay cost which of course is preferred in MLM because loyal customers are recruits hence the focus on that.
:RpS_huh:Anyone confused?
The MLM system is a very well hidden, sophisticated scam.
Yes, textex. I too see Amway as the mother ship.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Another must read which I just found. Same guy but a different page. More good information!!!
What is Wrong With MLM - FAQ
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Multi-Level Marketing Network Exposed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QtH07n-Lns
Till you get rid of politicians backing up MLM scams, not much can be done, only exposing and multiplying public outrage are the options.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
^^^^WOW. First time I've seen that one. SUMS EVERYTHING UP QUITE NICELY.
Yes, exposing and multiplying the outage. I'd also add SHAMING those involved.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Char
I see. So you want to discuss that your car was hit by a drunk driver and talk about how to fix your car and reconfigure the intersection where it happened and make drunk driving illegal? And you find it irrelevant to discuss why alcohol impairs judgement and function???
Yes, the tools scam, rallies, and ridiculous prices are all valid arguments but I'd be wondering why they exist.
It's because one cannot make money in MLM in the traditional sense. The article I posted gets to the root of the problem - An inherent problem that cannot be fixed.
People will not be able to sell nor want to sell 50% of product. If I have to be a salesman, I'm going to apply for a job that pays me for my time with benefits and commission bonus. I'd expect a territory so saturation isn't a problem and my neighbor isn't selling the same thing etc. etc. People joining MLMs want to be business owners not sales people peddling crap and they don't want to work door to door. Tell them the truth and requirements to make it legal and they won't join. (see the inherent problem)
Just curious, do you think there are any good MLMs? Which ones?
Don't get me wrong, we are on the same side, I despise everything about Amway and wish you luck in this mission. I just think its important to explain to people why alcohol gets into your bloodstream and makes you impaired while driving. It's a necessary part of the discussion.
I think we're closer together in our thinking than you may be thinking we are. I believe most MLMs would implode if the 50% retail sales was enforced and the tool profit levels were required to be disclosed. The 2 that I believe are legitimate, and I haven't studied them nearly enough to come to any conclusion, are Tupperware and Pampered Chef.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NikSam
Multi-Level Marketing Network Exposed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QtH07n-Lns
Till you get rid of politicians backing up MLM scams, not much can be done, only exposing and multiplying public outrage are the options.
The FTC is going after Herbalife right now, so the iron is HOT! We can bypass the politicians if we make big enough of a stink. These 3 are part of the problem, not the solution. I'm not saying they are 100% wrong about everything they are saying, just that they are "career" critics who are TALKING they would like to stop MLM scams, but they ACT as in a way to continue their critic careers, such as being paid to testify at trials, writing and selling books, representing people against MLMs in trials, etc.
FitzPatrick believes in the "unending recruiting pyramid" theory, which is in line with the saturation pyramids you see elsewhere on this thread, and this judge not only rejected the FTC's "unending recruiting pyramid" but laughed at it, mocked it, and made fun of it: MLM Legal (see section IV). The problem with this theory is it doesn't pan out in the real world. Amway alone (not to mention the hundreds of other MLMs out there, plus the thousands that have come and gone) would saturate the entire planet in about 32 years, and Amway has been around for 55 years, if each person sponsored only one person/year (ignoring births, deaths, and people quitting, admittedly major assumptions). The REAL problem is what I said originally, people are brought in, go broke, then are churned out, and a new "mark" is identified and the cycle begins again. FitzPatrick and Brooks (and one or 2 others) started a web site, mlmpetition.com, but then froze it. You can find my comments under "Scott Johnson." I've tried talking/emailing sense into them, to no avail.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Char
^^^^WOW. First time I've seen that one. SUMS EVERYTHING UP QUITE NICELY.
Yes, exposing and multiplying the outage. I'd also add SHAMING those involved.
You just made my point. That video has been out for 4 years, you are someone who closely monitors scams, and you haven't seen it. Therefore, it obviously didn't go viral. A half hour video won't be watched, let alone the subject matter being of interest to the typical person. That's why we need to change our tactics to stir things up. We need a simple message, the complaints have to be clearly illegal, and we have to make a lot of noise. Again, who's in?
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Textex
You just made my point. That video has been out for 4 years, you are someone who closely monitors scams, and you haven't seen it. Therefore, it obviously didn't go viral. A half hour video won't be watched, let alone the subject matter being of interest to the typical person. That's why we need to change our tactics to stir things up. We need a simple message, the complaints have to be clearly illegal, and we have to make a lot of noise. Again, who's in?
I think all ways to spread the word would be good. My contribution is posting here and in conversation when it comes up.
The MLM double talk is miles ahead of us and it's hard to get people to see why it doesn't work. If you just say its an illegal pyramid scheme, they say no it's not - That's too simple IMO. This is why I like the link I posted as it gets right to the heart of the matter which IS long.
It's funny, this is the second time I've posted my 6-4-2 explanation on a scam site and it got very little response from both sides. I really thought I was on to something as I didn't even think of it that way for a long time. When I realized that there can NEVER be a "2", I really got it. This is why it's not as simple as they make it sound. I'm aware it's hard to grasp at first and I need to refine my explanation.
I feel that even if there is a clear law, the scammers will figure a way around it. For example, tell the Amway computer you've done 50 pv to retail customers each month by making up names.
I agree, somehow the word needs to get out better but we need to be armed with the reasons why. When people hear and think they can make easy money, they will turn a blind eye if it's "not too illegal" if you know what I mean. Now, explain to them why they can't make money the way it's explained and I think we will get somewhere.
Again, room for anything and everything to get the message out is ALL good.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Char
I think all ways to spread the word would be good. My contribution is posting here and in conversation when it comes up.
The MLM double talk is miles ahead of us and it's hard to get people to see why it doesn't work. If you just say its an illegal pyramid scheme, they say no it's not - That's too simple IMO. This is why I like the link I posted as it gets right to the heart of the matter which IS long.
It's funny, this is the second time I've posted my 6-4-2 explanation on a scam site and it got very little response from both sides. I really thought I was on to something as I didn't even think of it that way for a long time. When I realized that there can NEVER be a "2", I really got it. This is why it's not as simple as they make it sound. I'm aware it's hard to grasp at first and I need to refine my explanation.
I feel that even if there is a clear law, the scammers will figure a way around it. For example, tell the Amway computer you've done 50 pv to retail customers each month by making up names.
I agree, somehow the word needs to get out better but we need to be armed with the reasons why. When people hear and think they can make easy money, they will turn a blind eye if it's "not too illegal" if you know what I mean. Now, explain to them why they can't make money the way it's explained and I think we will get somewhere.
Again, room for anything and everything to get the message out is ALL good.
At any moment in time, there certainly can be a "2." If you think they can get around any rule, let's just give up....
I agree all ways is good, but if posting on a blog isn't effective, we have to do more. I also agree we can't just say it's a scam, and I don't do that. The 2 main problems are lack of retail sales to non-participants makes it an illegal pyramid (the FTC and SEC web sites agree with this, as do a number of court judgments), and the tool scams, which are clearly in violation of the FTC Section 5 rules which prohibit unfair and deceptive practices, and this is also RICO fraud. That's it, period. The scammers simply can't answer those questions effectively without lying. I have a conference number, and you can keep your number confidential. Or we can discuss on Skype, let me know which you prefer. Thanks.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Textex
At any moment in time, there certainly can be a "2." If you think they can get around any rule, let's just give up....
I agree all ways is good, but if posting on a blog isn't effective, we have to do more. I also agree we can't just say it's a scam, and I don't do that. The 2 main problems are lack of retail sales to non-participants makes it an illegal pyramid (the FTC and SEC web sites agree with this, as do a number of court judgments), and the tool scams, which are clearly in violation of the FTC Section 5 rules which prohibit unfair and deceptive practices, and this is also RICO fraud. That's it, period. The scammers simply can't answer those questions effectively without lying. I have a conference number, and you can keep your number confidential. Or we can discuss on Skype, let me know which you prefer. Thanks.
Could you explain this statement to me?
"At any moment in time, there certainly can be a "2.""
Blogging is effective for some people - Myself for example. I was asked to join ASD and another scam site saved me. I've also learned so much about MLM.
Other than educating people, how do you specifically suggest "doing more"? What are your ideas?
Btw, I'm not prepared to spend any of my personal money - Amway already took enough of mine:RpS_biggrin:
Also, I know there is a lot of debate over what qualifies an an "end user". I'm not convinced by the mlmers interpretation, but this is just another example of skirting around the law the scammers use.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Char
Could you explain this statement to me?
"At any moment in time, there certainly can be a "2.""
Blogging is effective for some people - Myself for example. I was asked to join ASD and another scam site saved me. I've also learned so much about MLM.
Other than educating people, how do you specifically suggest "doing more"? What are your ideas?
Btw, I'm not prepared to spend any of my personal money - Amway already took enough of mine:RpS_biggrin:
Also, I know there is a lot of debate over what qualifies an an "end user". I'm not convinced by the mlmers interpretation, but this is just another example of skirting around the law the scammers use.
I can explain all of the above much more effectively and quickly talking, as I suggested above. Which do you prefer, a conference call or Skype?
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Remember, we're on the same side!!!
Please explain why there "can" be a "2" here. I really want everyone to see this discussion.
And with respect, I don't know you and I'm not comfortable communicating privately with you.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Char
Remember, we're on the same side!!!
Please explain why there "can" be a "2" here. I really want everyone to see this discussion.
And with respect, I don't know you and I'm not comfortable communicating privately with you.
No thanks, it is too time consuming. Also, I offered methods you can keep your identity confidential. Remember, I don't know you, either. But if you want to know more about me, read my blog. Later.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Char
It's funny, this is the second time I've posted my 6-4-2 explanation on a scam site and it got very little response from both sides. I really thought I was on to something as I didn't even think of it that way for a long time. When I realized that there can NEVER be a "2", I really got it. This is why it's not as simple as they make it sound. I'm aware it's hard to grasp at first and I need to refine my explanation.
From where I sit the explanation makes perfect sense, along with "who actually sells the stuff", which is always the other guy. I may muck it up a little, I see virtually everyone in Amway(OR ANY MLM) is a deceived or soon to be disillusioned "2" who dreams of being a "6", yet seldom makes it to "4". A "2" is doing nothing but feeding the "6" and teasing the "4", and the most likely outcome is becoming a "0".
The companies will claim the "2" is just a retail customer when it is convenient for them, and those that are still "plugged in" will claim the "2" isn't working the plan, or some similar cliche.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Char
I agree, somehow the word needs to get out better but we need to be armed with the reasons why. When people hear and think they can make easy money, they will turn a blind eye if it's "not too illegal" if you know what I mean.
This is the meat of the problem, and the person who figures it out will be a blogging "6". A few things come to mind, one being that at some point you are not dealing with a rational actor. Numbers don't matter, facts don't matter, what "former" friends and family say don't matter. How did Jim Jones do what he did? Try that at your next neighborhood get together and people will almost wish you were pushing Amway.
There is a LOT of good discussion on the link below, this is the first comment. What they are saying I have heard 1000 times if I heard it once. While enjoyable, it can be very difficult to rationally discuss the merits of the phrases that are being parroted as the gospel with people who are at this stage. Maybe life and experience will cause them to revisit it, certainly there are things I thought differently about at 20 than I do now.
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https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/index.htm
The articles that you have just printed are total scum. This thing about Amway being a cult is ludicrous. Look at Ray Kroc, he took a system developed by the McDonald brothers, and eventua lly made $Billions. That was done by DUPLICATION. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it. To all of the "quitters, I hope you come around again, you didn't want to win. If you did, you would have shown some sticking power." Col. Sanders of Kentucky Fried Chick- en took 1009 no's before he sold his first franchise. Look at Rudy Ruddiger, he went through two years of junior college to make it into Notre Dame. He then played four years of practice team football to play in one game. He only played in one play, but he seized the moment and made a sack!!!!! God honored him because he stuck it out!! Anyone can build this business if they follow the system. I guess you consider "McDonalds a CULT TOO!!" :RpS_thumbsup:This page really pisses me off. :RpS_thumbsup:A bunch of observant losers contributed to this worthless page. I have been called to preach, and the Lord is the head of my life. (Not my upline.) If you want some of the nicer things in life, evaluate your current situation. Can you succeed working for another man, coming in when he want's you to? I want to live the live of a caveman. "I wake up when I'm ready, I eat when I'm hungry, I do what I choose all day, and I go to bed when I'm tired. Can you do that with a 40hr/wk JOB?
!!!!!NO!!!!!
Can you do this with Amway if you are consistent for a 2-5 year period? *** YES, YOU CAN DO IT!!! ******
The guy that created this page has job mentality, he probably won't make it in this world.
Thanks for listening
'Slam Dunking Diamond'
P.S. I will be financially independent on 8-23-97, where will you be if your mouth is doing all the talking, vs. your feet taking action.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Char
Now, explain to them why they can't make money the way it's explained and I think we will get somewhere.
I am cynical, but it will always be a constant battle, if not Amway(OR INSERT MLM HERE) would have collapsed under its own weight long ago. The same would be true for virtually every Ponzi scheme in existence, yet year after year...
One thing that occurred to me the other day is that of the value proposition of buying from yourself is just not there. If 95-99% of people quit any given MLM in 5 years they must not see any true value in the product beyond using it as a tool to make money from others. Even if they hated recruiting, hated Rich Dad blather, hated sleeping in their car to get front row at Family Reunion Free Enterprise Day, they would continue to use the stuff themselves. Unless of course, they realized somewhere along the way that they were purchasing overpriced or inferior products.
Like Col. Sanders, 1000s will challenge our methods and we will have to keep plugging away just the same. I suspect a lot of people show up here and keep their wallet in their pocket based on solid information that is provided. That is a W in my book.
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
ribshaw, perhaps you would be interested with working together to shut down Amway. Are you interested?
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Textex
ribshaw, perhaps you would be interested with working together to shut down Amway. Are you interested?
I would remind everyone of this truism: Seneca quotes
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Textex
ribshaw, perhaps you would be interested with working together to shut down Amway. Are you interested?
Off the top of my head I have more scam stuff on my plate than I can get to right now. It is hard to know what your game plan is if you won't share it here. Just cut and paste the thing over.
I will check out your blog and see what you are proposing, just so I don't get dressed down for being lazy.
The current regulatory environment and Robert Kiyosaki becoming a best selling author based on a series of lies and platitudes make me skeptical that Amway is going anywhere. It takes three to tango, a company willing to bend the rules, a government willing to look the other way, and perhaps most important a pool of people who will buy into bullshit they are fed without asking for a new menu. Making that last group (IMO) as small as possible by providing sound alternatives is one of the biggest chunks we can take out of the MLM tree.
At the same time, don't be so coy, if your method is sound for ending Amway then put it on the anti-scam buffet. Hell the last link I posted the MLM'r claimed they would be retired in 1997 and reads just like anything posted in 2014. To say maybe there is a better way.
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While we teach, we learn.
Seneca
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Re: Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down
Some of what I am planning I want to keep confidential. It would be similar to posting my playbook before playing a game against another team. You let me know if you'd rather do what you're doing or having a larger impact. As the saying goes, keep doing what you've been doing and expecting different results is a definition of insanity.