Textex's Amway Is The Trunk Of The MLM Tree, Let's Chop It Down Thread Gone Wild!

Let's get organized and take action against Amway, the largest and most abusive MLM on the planet. Click my name to see my website. Who's in?

So how do you plan on doing this?

One step at the time, first let's do Herbalife. That will establish a due process and a precedent on a lot of cases of misleading and fabricating earning reports filed with SEC.
After that the road is open - most giant pyramids will have to go down or play by their own stated rules (which also means going down :) )

How do I plan on getting organized? Or how do I plan on taking down Amway? Or both? I think we can do Amway and Herbalife at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Char

@stewart
Here's a very good read for people considering MLM What's Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing?

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I agree, this is a good article.

Excellent article on why MLM is doomed by design: What's Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing?

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Originally Posted by Stewart

I agree, this is a good article.

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That article is far too complicated. The 2 questions to ask are:
1. What is the level of retail sales to those not in the pyramid? If less than 50%, it is an illegal pyramid, according to the FTC, SEC, and court rulings.
2. How much money is made from the training/motivation tool "side" business? If not reasonable to support the advertised business, it's a RICO fraud. I suggest 50% is a maximum number (for every dollar from the MLM, 50 cents can be made from the tools.

Click on my name and website for information on the world's largest MLM scam, most other MLMs have the problems noted above.

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Originally Posted by Char

Excellent article on why MLM is doomed by design: What's Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing?

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As I said on another thread, "That article is far too complicated. The 2 questions to ask are:
1. What is the level of retail sales to those not in the pyramid? If less than 50%, it is an illegal pyramid, according to the FTC, SEC, and court rulings.
2. How much money is made from the training/motivation tool "side" business? If not reasonable to support the advertised business, it's a RICO fraud. I suggest 50% is a maximum number (for every dollar from the MLM, 50 cents can be made from the tools.

Click on my name and website for information on the world's largest MLM scam, most other MLMs have the problems noted above.

Also, this thread is about how to take down Amway, not a long discussion about what is wrong with MLM.

If you really want to take down Amway, start by kicking out and never vote for congressmen who are on the take from Amway and DSA.

Till then, or till they cut their ties with DSA themselves, it will be long exhausting battle hard to win.
But the Herbalife case might be an eye opener for some politicians who backing up this crime now.

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Originally Posted by Textex

While education helps, these scams are often very sophisticated, and most people will still get scammed. Therefore law enforcement needs to go after them HARD, in order to make them think twice about starting a new one.

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People will always be scammed and law enforcement will never go after criminals as hard as we would like. People will always like to think they have found some special way to make money. Even in places where hands get chopped, bread still gets stolen.

While I would love to see life or damn near sentences for white collar crime, no punishment in the world will get most of the victims money back. The Madoff Ponzi will cost the taxpayer MILLIONS, that same cash could have educated tens of thousands to not let someone both control the money and the statements.

No matter crime will always be with us.

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Originally Posted by Textex

That article is far too complicated. The 2 questions to ask are:
1. What is the level of retail sales to those not in the pyramid? If less than 50%, it is an illegal pyramid, according to the FTC, SEC, and court rulings.
2. How much money is made from the training/motivation tool "side" business? If not reasonable to support the advertised business, it's a RICO fraud. I suggest 50% is a maximum number (for every dollar from the MLM, 50 cents can be made from the tools.

Click on my name and website for information on the world's largest MLM scam, most other MLMs have the problems noted above.

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How about we move this conversation to this realscam thread that textex started: http://www.realscam.com/f9/amway-tru...hop-down-3101/

I'm chomping at the bit to respond to this.

All in favor?????

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Originally Posted by Char

How about we move this conversation to this realscam thread that textex started: http://www.realscam.com/f9/amway-tru...hop-down-3101/

I'm chomping at the bit to respond to this.

All in favor?????

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Probably a good move to keep the Flexkom thread clean. Why not just copy the quote over and go, then folks can link back here if they want.

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Originally Posted by Textex

As I said on another thread, "That article is far too complicated. The 2 questions to ask are:
1. What is the level of retail sales to those not in the pyramid? If less than 50%, it is an illegal pyramid, according to the FTC, SEC, and court rulings.
2. How much money is made from the training/motivation tool "side" business? If not reasonable to support the advertised business, it's a RICO fraud. I suggest 50% is a maximum number (for every dollar from the MLM, 50 cents can be made from the tools.

Click on my name and website for information on the world's largest MLM scam, most other MLMs have the problems noted above.

Also, this thread is about how to take down Amway, not a long discussion about what is wrong with MLM.

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I see. So you want to discuss that your car was hit by a drunk driver and talk about how to fix your car and reconfigure the intersection where it happened and make drunk driving illegal? And you find it irrelevant to discuss why alcohol impairs judgement and function???

Yes, the tools scam, rallies, and ridiculous prices are all valid arguments but I'd be wondering why they exist.

It's because one cannot make money in MLM in the traditional sense. The article I posted gets to the root of the problem - An inherent problem that cannot be fixed.

People will not be able to sell nor want to sell 50% of product. If I have to be a salesman, I'm going to apply for a job that pays me for my time with benefits and commission bonus. I'd expect a territory so saturation isn't a problem and my neighbor isn't selling the same thing etc. etc. People joining MLMs want to be business owners not sales people peddling crap and they don't want to work door to door. Tell them the truth and requirements to make it legal and they won't join. (see the inherent problem)

Just curious, do you think there are any good MLMs? Which ones?

Don't get me wrong, we are on the same side, I despise everything about Amway and wish you luck in this mission. I just think its important to explain to people why alcohol gets into your bloodstream and makes you impaired while driving. It's a necessary part of the discussion.

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Originally Posted by Char

... do you think there are any good MLMs? ...

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can help you with that – good MLM is "dead" (busted) MLM :)

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Originally Posted by Char

Tell them the truth and requirements to make it legal and they won't join. (see the inherent problem)

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For my time, this is where it is at. BUT we all have our own methods and reasons for writing about it at all. Taking the granddaddy of them all Amway/Quixtar/Amquix/Plain old Amway year after year people hear the pitch and join. The company has done next to nothing to stop the tools scam. Dexter Yeager was still #1 , and most of his income wasn't coming from "self shoppers" last I heard. Maybe this has all been cleaned up. :RpS_wink:

Just this week the supreme court once again ruled that giving money to political parties is the same thing as free speech. Supreme Court strikes down aggregate campaign giving limits - Josh Gerstein and Byron Tau - POLITICO.com I try not to mix politics with scam busting, but if anyone thinks this sort of thing is going to give more ammo to the people than to Herbalife or Amway they might not have thought it through. Couple this with Citizens United, and I expect nothing but token actions out of our government. As a matter of public policy, I don't think either Ackman or Herbalife should be able to buy politicians, er I mean speak freely.

That leads me back to the conclusion that the only thing that will change in the near future is the number of people who fall for the sham that is MLM. Tell people that they will make $10 a week on average no matter how hard they work, how many seminars they attend, or how many tapes they listen to. Some will listen, others won't and every now and again someone will stop by and say thanks.

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Originally Posted by ribshaw

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Supreme Court strikes down aggregate campaign giving limits - Josh Gerstein and Byron Tau - POLITICO.com ...

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Things are returning to the middle ages, when the only option for regular folks to vote is with pitchforks and torches.

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Originally Posted by NikSam

can help you with that – good MLM is "dead" (busted) MLM :)

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DEAD???? I say never born!!!!! NEVER EXISTED!!! People are just playing catch up and realizing there aren't any good mlms because of true life horror stories posted on the Internet which didn't exist back then.

I'm with you on the Nigerian letter scam. If enough word gets out, people will HOPEFULLY steer clear.

I don't care what the letter says, if it's from Nigeria then I'm not sending money, i.e. I don't care what crap you're selling, if it's MLM or network marketing, I'm not joining!!!

^^^^I wanted to clarify the DEAD never existed part - Meant to be a jestful comment to Niksam.

Amway's 6-4-2 plan and it's hidden caveat.

Actually this applies to all the...you get "x" who get "x" who get "x" plans.

It's sounds so easy when the recruiter says "you" find 6 people, who find 4, who find 2. "You" will make money and collect residual. "You" will be excited because "you" are making money. Now the caveat:

How do you think the "2" is feeling about Amway? He has no one and making zip. What's his incentive to stay? "4" was on his way but he just lost both of his "2s" who were not happy. "4" no longer has anyone and he leaves and so on.

6-4-2 and retirement is a fallacy - There will never be a happy "2". "You" can never stop recruiting because those without a downline will leave and that will trickle up to you.

^^^^Bet they don't point this out in any Amway meeting. And probably one of the many reasons all of us who have tried Amway aren't zillionaires like we thought we'd be.

I hope someone will find this explanation useful. To be honest, this caveat wasn't obvious to me for a long time and then my lightbulb flashed.

Don't worry about the "2"

What happens if there's 10 "you" at the meeting ???

It's even worse if there's 10 meetings happening in your city that night

Work out the numbers involved if every MLM meeting uses the "You get 6 who find 4 who find 2" scenario

Here's how a pyramid with " 6 who get 6" works

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...psb69611ac.gif

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5283defd.png

Now perhaps readers can understand how the saying "It's not Amway, is it ?" came into being in virtually every country in the Western world

One wonders how many people HAVEN'T been hit up at least once by an enthusiastic Amway recruiter.

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Originally Posted by Textex

How do I plan on getting organized? Or how do I plan on taking down Amway? Or both? I think we can do Amway and Herbalife at the same time.

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MLMs are evolving systems that will die a natural death if they evolve too quickly or too slowly . There is not much an individual can do about "the rate of change" but we can point out that even the big ones like Amway and Herbalife have already evolved into a decaying mess.

Most of us know that one bad apple spoils a batch of them. The whole industry is infected and news has reached the search engines so keep up posting that news and that will hasten the rate of decay. Politicians can not do much about the natural evolution of any system.

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Originally Posted by littleroundman

Don't worry about the "2"

What happens if there's 10 "you" at the meeting ???

It's even worse if there's 10 meetings happening in your city that night

Work out the numbers involved if every MLM meeting uses the "You get 6 who find 4 who find 2" scenario

Here's how a pyramid with " 6 who get 6" works

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...psb69611ac.gif

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5283defd.png

Now perhaps readers can understand how the saying "It's not Amway, is it ?" came into being in virtually every country in the Western world

One wonders how many people HAVEN'T been hit up at least once by an enthusiastic Amway recruiter.

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Scary isn't it???

One thing I was also trying to point out is the double speak which MLMs have perfected.

They make 6-4-2 sound so easy.

The double speak is that all those 6,4, and 2s essentially are "YOU" to all uplines MEANING you might be someones "2". The expectation however is that that "2" i. e. "you" are now expected to find "6". There can not actually be a 6, 4 or 2 end to survive because "2" doesn't make money and will drop. Now enter the pyramid diagram exponential when everyone needs six (which I just explained why) and we can clearly see the problem.

We have two problems connected.

All people will need "6" to make money and avoid drop outs but there aren't enough people in the world for all people to have "6".

Enter the need for outside sales. Problem, people don't sign up in MLM to be salesmen and if they were willing, it's hard to sell retail because the customer can just sign up and pay cost which of course is preferred in MLM because loyal customers are recruits hence the focus on that.

:RpS_huh:Anyone confused?

The MLM system is a very well hidden, sophisticated scam.

Yes, textex. I too see Amway as the mother ship.

Another must read which I just found. Same guy but a different page. More good information!!!

What is Wrong With MLM - FAQ

"You want us to sell Amway" ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jmNc-cpx5o

Multi-Level Marketing Network Exposed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QtH07n-Lns

Till you get rid of politicians backing up MLM scams, not much can be done, only exposing and multiplying public outrage are the options.