Thread: True Vision Global - using religion!

VOR, What charity are you doing this research for?

Originally Posted by Whip

again......you need to be asking THEM for proof they are legit. They have to provide all the 'charity' information by law when you ask (you won't get any).
You can also ask them why they are dealing with known scammers and allowing it to be advertised on ponzi messageboards and why it is an alleged 'mlm' structure when it's allegedly only suppose to be about helping the helpless (as you already know - they won't answer). But you won't because you already know the answers. And why not just donate to a known legitimate one as has been recommended here? Surely that can't be deemed nefarious as you insist this site is. Expecting money back is very hypocritical at this point. Just go all in as suggested.
And why are you still here defending them if this was allegedly such a waste of your time. You are not going to change our minds about it.

Hi Whip... I don't think you have been reading the posts.

1) They don't claim to be a charity, they claim to be a for profit business that helps charities.
2) I'm not defending them - I am trying to make a determination as to whether or not the allegations against them are true or false.
3) Who are the "known scammers" they are dealing with? Known by who? Were they convicted of fraud? Do you just label them scammers (without any evidence) simply for being marketers?
4) In what way are these "known scammers" associated with the company? As far as I know, it is open to the general public to join or promote? I would expect the good, the bad, and the ugly to get involved - like any other commercial entity.
5) If a "known scammer" ( to be generous - a convicted one) promotes General Motors automobiles and receives affiliate commissions when he makes sales, does that make GM a scam?

I'm not raising those points to defend TVG, I'm simply asking you to clarify what you think makes them a scam.
What is your criteria, your evidence, your methodology? It doesn't seem to me, that your allegations are backed by any credible evidence.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

I would like to establish the truth of the matter quickly and conclusively.

No you wouldn't.

You'd rather be "right" than be effective.

Again I say: unless fraudsters are completely and utterly inept, you will not find the sort of hard evidence you are seeking without someone gaining access to the inner workings of the scam-du-jour

You can come up with all the strawman arguments and theoretical scenarios you like and it will not alter that fact.

I'll tell you what, you give me some "hard evidence" there will be a sun in the eastern sky tomorrow morning when I wake up and I'll work doubly hard to provide the level of proof you are (unreasonably) demanding.

Originally Posted by Char

VOR, What charity are you doing this research for?

If you don't mind I would like to keep that private for now. We are a relatively new 501(c)(3). Small, underfunded, understaffed, run on a volunteer basis, and we don't have a legal team or resources to look into this.

1) I don't think any other info about our charity is relevant to the conversation.

2) If TVG Connect turns out to be a scam, I don't want our charity's name tied to it.

3) If TVG connect is legit, they could be an answer to prayer. We need funding to move forward with several programs, primarily geared to prescreened orphanages.

For those reasons, the issue is very important to me, and the desire for privacy should be understandable to even the most skeptical here.

Personally I think we should demand some verifiable hard evidence that Voice of Reason is, in fact, representing a 501(c) organization and isn't simply the trolling the forum for reasons unknown.

For someone claiming to be a charity volunteer, he certainly does an excellent HYIP ponzi player impersonation

Originally Posted by littleroundman

No you wouldn't.

You'd rather be "right" than be effective.

Again I say: unless fraudsters are completely and utterly inept, you will not find the sort of hard evidence you are seeking without someone gaining access to the inner workings of the scam-du-jour

You can come up with all the strawman arguments and theoretical scenarios you like and it will not alter that fact.

I'll tell you what, you give me some "hard evidence" there will be a sun in the eastern sky tomorrow morning when I wake up and I'll work doubly hard to provide the level of proof you are (unreasonably) demanding.

Sorry - I don't think it is unreasonable to expect allegations of criminal activity to be based on reasonable evidence. The courts expect it also, which is why there is a difference between exercising free speech and libel.

Libel - to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others. Libel is the written or broadcast form of defamation, distinguished from slander which is oral defamation. It is a tort (civil wrong) making the person or entity (like a newspaper, magazine or political organization) open to a lawsuit for damages by the person who can prove the statement about him/her was a lie.

Originally Posted by littleroundman

Personally I think we should demand some verifiable hard evidence that Voice of Reason is, in fact, representing a 501(c) organization and isn't simply the trolling the forum for reasons unknown.

For someone claiming to be a charity volunteer, he certainly does an excellent HYIP ponzi player impersonation

The reasons for privacy I gave to Char should be understandable to you. The fact that you make them into another conspiracy theory is very telling. It doesn't exactly lend credence to your allegations about TVG, and would constitute another reason why I wouldn't want to name the charity here. You would probably just try to maliciously malign them over some imagined issue, and attempt to destroy something good in the world.

VOR, What charity are you doing this research for?

If you don't mind I would like to keep that private for now. We are a relatively new 501(c)(3). Small, underfunded, understaffed, run on a volunteer basis, and we don't have a legal team or resources to look into this.

1) I don't think any other info about our charity is relevant to the conversation.

2) If TVG Connect turns out to be a scam, I don't want our charity's name tied to it.

3) If TVG connect is legit, they could be an answer to prayer. We need funding to move forward with several programs, primarily geared to prescreened orphanages.

For those reasons, the issue is very important to me, and the desire for privacy should be understandable to even the most skeptical here.

Originally Posted by littleroundman

Personally I think we should demand some verifiable hard evidence that Voice of Reason is, in fact, representing a 501(c) organization and isn't simply the trolling the forum for reasons unknown.

For someone claiming to be a charity volunteer, he certainly does an excellent HYIP ponzi player impersonation

I've stuck with trolling all along. For someone that doesn't like our evidence on this little messageboard, and has stated it is wasting their time, they certainly seem set on trying convince potential marks this is legit fro some reason. They could just as easily be enjoying the big evidence to make them feel all warm and fuzzy on the usual suspect forums.

Originally Posted by Whip

I've stuck with trolling all along. For someone that doesn't like our evidence on this little messageboard, and has stated it is wasting their time, they certainly seem set on trying convince potential marks this is legit fro some reason. They could just as easily be enjoying the big evidence to make them feel all warm and fuzzy on the usual suspect forums.

100% agree.
They send a simpleton and/or a crackpot who rants on and on in circular logic. LACK Of Reason fits the pattern.

Originally Posted by Fat City, LA

100% agree.
They send a simpleton and/or a crackpot who rants on and on in circular logic. LACK Of Reason fits the pattern.

No one sent me, that is yet another false assumption. I am not trying to convince "potential marks" of anything, that is another wild conspiracy theory that is indicative of the quality of this forum.

Ad Hominem attacks against me, only serve to undermine the credibility of your allegations against TVG. They do nothing to prove the very serious allegations of fraud that have been made.
If there was any doubt as to whether this was a forum that should be taken seriously, I think you just removed it. Please, carry on with your insults and innuendo, they are very revealing.

Two comments.

One, I do hope that you registered your 501(c)(3) properly. The status is not automatic for charities other than houses of worship, as I am given to understand.

Two, when one sees numerous people with a history of selectively choosing fraudulent schemes over honest ones flocking to a programme (Dottie Rogers and Noblin Porter-Hamilton have both exhibited this behavior), one can justifiably presume that there is something shady going on behind the scenes in it; an acquisition of monies by methods which are not honest.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

No one sent me, that is yet another false assumption. I am not trying to convince "potential marks" of anything, that is another wild conspiracy theory that is indicative of the quality of this forum.

Ad Hominem attacks against me, only serve to undermine the credibility of your allegations against TVG. They do nothing to prove the very serious allegations of fraud that have been made.
If there was any doubt as to whether this was a forum that should be taken seriously, I think you just removed it. Please, carry on with your insults and innuendo, they are very revealing.

You expect us to believe someone who isnt a ponzi shill want us to point out in the TOS where it says its a scam?

You expect us to believe someone who isnt a ponzi shill expects a group who only do scams/pyramids now have a legit way to help end world hunger/suffering ?

You expect us to believe someone who isnt a ponzi shill wouldnt just read whats on here, make their own decisions and move on ?

If yes....you are a simpleton and crackpot who wants this to be real beyond being rational to the point of pathetic.
You and sadly your charity will get burned sooner than later by this "world changing Christian opportunity"

ponzi scam - nuff said!! Now move on VOR. You will not win your battle! Charles Andrade is a known ponzi scammer and has never been involved in a legitimate business.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Please, carry on with your insults and innuendo,

Oh, we will, VoR, we will.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Ad Hominem attacks against me, only serve to undermine the credibility of your allegations against TVG.

I am supremely confident our credibility will come out of this intact.

Yours, on the other hand....................................

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

If there was any doubt as to whether this was a forum that should be taken seriously,

There wasn't...............next childish insult, please

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

which is why there is a difference between exercising free speech and libel.

Exactly.

Hopefully we'll be insulting enough so that either you or one of the other TVGers is foolish enough to actually follow through with your veiled threats so we can get TVG in front of a court and allow "discovery" and the public eye to settle this once and for all.

Speaking of the Public Eye as we were:

Well I thank you for making up my mind. The realscam.com site is not credible, your scam alert warnings about TVG are are obviously meaningless. You have labelled me a ponzi shill, and accused me of several untruths, so why should I expect anything you say about TVG connect to be true? You have provided absolutely no proof to support your contentions and appear to be cranks, cynics, and conspiracy theorists. I will be recommending to the charity I am with, to ignore your malicious attacks against TVG as libel. I bid you adieu.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

I bid you adieu.

Well I thank you for making up my mind. The realscam.com site is not credible

you decided that 24 posts ago. But you weren't here to get facts anyway.

I bid you adieu.

You'll be back. You scammers always come back. See kamanski, marsh, terry stern, etc.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Well I thank you for making up my mind. IT WAS MADE UP LONG BEFORE YOU ARRIVED HERE

The realscam.com site is not credible, IN THE OPINION OF A SINGLE RANDOM ANONYMOUS INTERNET TROLL, YOU MEAN

your scam alert warnings about TVG are are obviously meaningless. TO YOU

You have labelled me a ponzi shill, and accused me of several untruths, ERR, THAT WOULD BE BECAUSE YOU ARE ACTING LIKE ONE

so why should I expect anything you say about TVG connect to be true? AND YOUR EXPECTATIONS MATTER BECAUSE................??

You have provided absolutely no proof to support your contentions YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER AND ALL THAT

and appear to be cranks, cynics, and conspiracy theorists. YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT APPEARANCES BEING DECEIVING

I will be recommending to the charity I am with, to ignore your malicious attacks against TVG C'EST LA VIE

as libel. SUE, TVG, PLEASE SUE

I bid you adieu.

CYA, it's been nice meeting you

Voice of Reason:

While you posted the Whois record for TVGConnect, this is just the marketing arm of the parent company TVG.com, is it not? The Whois registration for TVG.com is shown as:

Domain Name: TRUEVISIONGLOBAL.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1846495537_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.enom.com
Registrar URL: eNom - domain name, web site hosting, email, registration
Updated Date: 2014-02-13 08:17:33Z
Creation Date: 2014-02-13 16:17:00Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2015-02-13 16:17:00Z
Registrar: ENOM, INC.
Registrar IANA ID: 48
Registrar Abuse Contact Email:
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4252982646
Reseller: NAMECHEAP.COM
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Registrant Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Registrant Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Registrant City: PANAMA
Registrant State/Province: PANAMA
Registrant Postal Code: 00000
Registrant Country: PA
Registrant Phone: +507.8365503
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +51.17057182
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: C3FB679FF441483F992CF1F09C7952A5.PRO...OISGUAR D.COM
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Admin Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Admin Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Admin City: PANAMA
Admin State/Province: PANAMA
Admin Postal Code: 00000
Admin Country: PA
Admin Phone: +507.8365503
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax: +51.17057182
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: C3FB679FF441483F992CF1F09C7952A5.PRO...OISGUAR D.COM
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Tech Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Tech Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Tech City: PANAMA
Tech State/Province: PANAMA
Tech Postal Code: 00000
Tech Country: PA
Tech Phone: +507.8365503
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax: +51.17057182
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: C3FB679FF441483F992CF1F09C7952A5.PRO...OISGUAR D.COM
Name Server: NS8249.HOSTGATOR.COM
Name Server: NS8250.HOSTGATOR.COM
DNSSEC: unSigned
URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/

So as I said previously, why would Lois and the other founders of this "legal" company want their domain registration information kept private? There is no reason to as all their personal information is well known.

But I tell you what: If you want "convincing proof," "credible evidence," "concrete and actionable," or "that isn't speculation, innuendo, conjecture, cynicism, or conspiracy theory," then have Lois and company sue RS, or any one of us posters here for libel. Heck I will make it easy for her to sue me for libel. She is a liar, a fraud, a crook and TVG.com/TVGConnect are illegal pyramid schemes and Ponzi's. They are asking people to invest with them, and they are not registered or licensed to sell securities which they must not only register here in the U.S., but also in every country where they are doing business.

You do agree what I said was libel, right? Then there should be no problem with her suing me. She can send her legal papers to our company. If she goes to http://eagleresearchassociates.org, that is in my signature, she will find our address as to where to send the legal documents.. I really look forward to receiving her notice of legal proceedings against me. So when Lois and company don't sue me, you should be asking yourself why not? After all this is a legal company and I have just libeled her and the company. Actually the real reasons why she won't sue me, or anyone else here for that matter, is because we have not libeled her, but also due to one single word; and that word is DISCOVERY. In case you don't know what that word means, here is a simple definition for you: I get to give an anal exam of TVG.com/TVGConnect and all the founders.

But at least you will have all your conditions met for what you say is your requirement of "convincing evidence."

Gotta love trolls.

Bottom line: No legitimate non-profit would deliberately associate themselves with these types of companies if they did any research into the "business", it's founders, or it's promoters.

Originally Posted by surfer

Gotta love trolls.

Bottom line: No legitimate non-profit would deliberately associate themselves with these types of companies if they did any research into the "business", it's founders, or it's promoters.

Or base their decision on whether or not to join by sending someone with a demonstrable [lack of] experience or skills WRT internet, charity and affiliate fraud like Voice of Reason to troll internet forums

Added to which, there is the not-so-insignificant matter of the fiduciary responsibilities of the 501(C) and / or its' Board of Directors.

I can guarantee you, gambling donated money on an illegal HYIP ponzi fraud does NOT comply with its' charter or its' responsibilities to its' donors and members.

Originally Posted by Voice of Reason

Well I thank you for making up my mind. The realscam.com site is not credible, your scam alert warnings about TVG are are obviously meaningless. You have labelled me a ponzi shill, and accused me of several untruths, so why should I expect anything you say about TVG connect to be true? You have provided absolutely no proof to support your contentions and appear to be cranks, cynics, and conspiracy theorists. I will be recommending to the charity I am with, to ignore your malicious attacks against TVG as libel. I bid you adieu.

Lack of Reason has some legit emotional issues. Odd she is putting a charity into a ponzi based on looking so stupid/classless/childish in this forum.

https://www.facebook.com/charlesandr...05160232664927

"our regulatory bodies are encouraging a slow, steady launch "
-Who are the regulatory bodies...the Fellowship Of The Ring...Knights Of The Roundtable, etc

"ya totally the most fun of a program is getting ready for launch smoothly, LOL haha"
-For sure, cause after launch its excuses 24/7 for acting shady

Actualy, here is who was on that domain before it went private (as of 2014-02-13)

Code:

Domain Name: TRUEVISIONGLOBAL.COM
Registry Domain ID: NA
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.enom.com
Registrar URL: www.enom.com
Creation Date: 2014-02-13 16:17:00Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2015-02-13 16:17:00Z
Registrar: ENOM, INC.
Registrar IANA ID: 48
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@enom.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4252744500
Reseller: NAMECHEAP.COM
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID: 
Registrant Name: CARLOS CASTENEDA
Registrant Organization: N/A
Registrant Street: 542 EAGLETOWN BLVD
Registrant Street: N/A
Registrant City: TORONTO
Registrant State/Province: ONTARIO
Registrant Postal Code: M9C2T6
Registrant Country: CA
Registrant Phone: +1.4168031325
Registrant Phone Ext: 
Registrant Fax: +1.5555555555
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: IDEAGURU@HOTMAIL.COM

Same registrant as of :
teamtsunamiplan.com,
kingunikash.com,
legendaryesolutions.com,
mlmstartupkings.com,
mmo-cashout.com,
naturalbornleaderz.com,
netmc-network.com,
netmcnetwork.com,
penny-matrix.biz ,
pinoy-recruiters.biz,
adexperts.me,
267KayEar.com

Carlos Casteneda? The infamous witch? Or just some bloke with the same name?

Also, the email ideaguru@hotmail.com maps to Charles Andrade as well, and connects to several websites promising college degrees in 5 days.