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Thread: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

  1. #1626
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Finix View Post
    Best of luck to you, but if their life experiences thus far didn't teach them to not trust strangers, there is little anyone can do.
    Surprisingly enough, most people are basically honest and do not spend their lives looking over their shoulders for people who are about to con them. They are just not that cynical. The internet is still relatively new and many people are still not up to speed on how it can be infiltrated by criminals, who, as Lynn Edgington put it, now rob with a keyboard instead of a gun - and that includes law enforcement in many countries including certain parts of the US. Just as people used to believe everything they see on TV, they believe what is put out on the net. They have no idea of how easy it is to manipulate people from the safety of a computer screen. Maybe they are being naive, but few people who fall for these schemes grew up with a computer in front of them. If anyone doubts that, just look at grown adults chatting about the intimacies of their private lives on the public internet in Facebook who are then surprised when their private lives become publicly known!

    Having said that, those people who trusted strangers on the internet are also perfectly capable of looking up information on the schemes they are in or are being persuaded to join and some of them will find this and other forums and read the content and learn. Forums like Real Scam cant change the world or human nature, but they can and do play a role in putting useful information in front of people who are looking for it.

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  3. #1627
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Finix View Post
    If you have the government to create rules that protect the lowest common denominator, that will leave 99% of the population over-regulated and pissed.
    You can hardly call laws that prohibit the sale of unregistered securities on or offline overprotective. They exist in all western countries and many others. Securities are complex financial instruments outside the comprehension of the majority of the world's citizens. Real High Yield Investments are even more complex and are legally traded only by people with professional expertise and significant funds - not by 50$ members with large downlines. Laws exist to protect far more than the lowest common denominator and are necessary - Maddoff conned pension funds and financial specialists and most of the people who run internet money games in the guise of businesses are no fools and could most certainly make a good living honestly if they chose.

    The online "investment/marketing "industry" " has all the trappings of legitimate business - payment processors, banking, forums, blogs, "experts" etc etc, but that no more makes it an industry than offline fraud with similar trappings, but it does make it easier to convince some people that its existence is justified - and they are not all stupid people.

    A world without regulation relies on everyone being honest and, as you yourself have pointed out many times, that is far from being the case

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  5. #1628
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Now we all know why recent HYIP ponzi CRIMINAL prosecutions have been centered around "fraud" "wire fraud" "money laundering" and "conspiracy" and not securities violations.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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  7. #1629
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleOne View Post
    No mention of money games but "investing."
    This isn't what I'm talking about at all. Are e-currency balances money or consumer items? A good lawyer could probably make a case that they are consumer items.

  8. #1630
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Forget about fraud for a second. Suppose there is HYIP that does exactly what it says and uses e-currencies only. Is it selling securities or is it selling membership in a group? It can be phrased that it is selling membership. In which case it shouldn't need registrations to sell securities.

  9. #1631
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Finix View Post
    Forget about fraud for a second. Suppose there is HYIP that does exactly what it says and uses e-currencies only. Is it selling securities or is it selling membership in a group? It can be phrased that it is selling membership. In which case it shouldn't need registrations to sell securities.
    I suspect not as long as the e-currency was once created from actual cash, and/or able to be converted back in to real cash. If it had no value whatsoever then you would probably not hit anyone's radar. There is a doctrine of Substance over Form in the US, meaning it is the actual substance of the transaction, and not what you call it that really matters.

  10. #1632
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    I suspect not as long as the e-currency was once created from actual cash, and/or able to be converted back in to real cash
    Then how is it possible for sites like King.com and Worldwinner to legally operate without gaming licenses while online casinos require them?

  11. #1633
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Finix View Post
    Then how is it possible for sites like King.com and Worldwinner to legally operate without gaming licenses while online casinos require them?
    I don't know that they are legally operating. In the states online gambling has not been legal for sometime. NJ just came online. As for gambling, I could care less for the most part.

    Thought of a good explanation for the "membership club" though. Try opening a club in your area where men join to talk about "cars and sports" the cost is $1000 per week. At this club there also happen to be beautiful women that enjoy and get very excited of car talk shall we say. See how long the local authorities let you operate your "membership club".
    Last edited by ribshaw; 03-18-2013 at 08:23 AM.

  12. #1634
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Ol' Radical Me View Post
    How does a series of Cease and Desist Orders make Roman look innocent? I am afraid you must have drunk the kool aid put out by leading PS shills. The Cease and Desist Orders, together with the warnings that Profitable Sunshine is illegally selling unregistered securities in several countries make him look as guilty as hell. The story now reads Profitable Sunshine received Cease and Desist Orders from many US States and Warnings from others and from the authorities in other countries. The owner Roman Novak has disappeared with the money.

    Equally the authorities in the US, Canada, New Zealand and anywhere else where C & D Orders or warnings have been given are OBLIGED to enforce the law and the law does not permit the sale of unregistered securities to the public and even less where the scheme appears to be a ponzi and members are paid out of new members money. All that has happened is that there will be fewer victims than there would have been if it had been allowed to continue, as there will be no new members entering.
    no need to spill to me

    i see it for what it really is and have from the beginning

    what i was saying for the people who are not up on the details of the D&C

    or doing thier own due dillegence to get to the bottom of whats really going on

    and are only being feed info from thier private PS group leaders

    its not that obvious just yet to most folks that they have been scammed

    due to the C & D orders

    ITS BEING EASILY SPUN !!

    if you deny that then your in denial yourself

    roman needs to be caught red handed and he hasnt @least not yet

    matter of fact most dont even know if dude even exist

    and even with that fact most are still just waiting on an email or a voice mail from him

    no one is even still @ this point trying to figure out if he is a physical human being

    as far as the folks on the PS private group side

    most are still holding onto that Roman is working to move the business out of the long hands of the US

  13. #1635
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Ol' Radical Me View Post
    How does a series of Cease and Desist Orders make Roman look innocent? I am afraid you must have drunk the kool aid put out by leading PS shills. The Cease and Desist Orders, together with the warnings that Profitable Sunshine is illegally selling unregistered securities in several countries make him look as guilty as hell. The story now reads Profitable Sunshine received Cease and Desist Orders from many US States and Warnings from others and from the authorities in other countries. The owner Roman Novak has disappeared with the money.

    Equally the authorities in the US, Canada, New Zealand and anywhere else where C & D Orders or warnings have been given are OBLIGED to enforce the law and the law does not permit the sale of unregistered securities to the public and even less where the scheme appears to be a ponzi and members are paid out of new members money. All that has happened is that there will be fewer victims than there would have been if it had been allowed to continue, as there will be no new members entering.
    and thats great for the shorterm but imo its not great for the future DEMISE of ponzi schemes tho

    PS will be more remembered for its payouts .... then folks losing out .........

  14. #1636
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by ribshaw View Post
    Truthloldotcom,

    No matter which way it plays out there will always be believers and defenders. Charles Ponzi had his defenders, wife beaters have their defenders, and serial killers have fan clubs. Some people are conditioned that there are secret things that rich people do to make money. Any government involvement further ads to the conspiracy or allure. Couple that with as you say people looking for an easy way up and people are ripe for the picking.

    Two things I would think about just a little differently, not everyone that got in involved in PS is looking for a quick score. Some are people that do not have the mental ability to make good choices with their money. No matter what stage a scam is in, government in my opinion has a duty to protect those people.

    Second, and this is something that is not often talked about, but the best cons end with a blow off that leaves people thinking they were lucky to get out when they did. So rather than knowing they were conned, the mark just thinks one more bad break for the little guy.
    its funny that you mentioned that ... thats something i just realized with the creation of social sites like Facebook and twitter... my cousin was murdered cold blooded in the streets 2 years ago and it was on camera ... and the gun man still had people claiming his innocence ... this world we live in is doosey ... i understand every human has a mother and a fathers cousins friends etc....... but there is something called common sense and real facts ... but when it comes to those close to you ... we def tend to lose it so i understand but @ the sametime its like WTF!! .................................................. ........

  15. #1637
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Finix View Post
    This isn't what I'm talking about at all. Are e-currency balances money or consumer items? A good lawyer could probably make a case that they are consumer items.

    A good lawyer wouldn't bother, as at the law the important thing to establish is if it has value, and that's all.

  16. #1638
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleOne View Post
    I guess you missed on PS website where Roman said he offered 5 "investment" plans. No mention of money games but "investing." I guess you missed that he used the words invest/investment/investments 15 times on the home page alone. I guess you missed where he mentioned the words invest/investment/investments 28 times on the FAQ Page about the type of "investments" PS offered.

    Money game, hardly as no mention anywhere on his website. That's why the states and other countries have issed their alerts, warnings and cease and desist orders.
    i was just listening to an phone call with nancy jo and roman novak via the internet

    and nancy jo asked roman that very question

    she asked roman since people cant promote PS as an "investment"

    what kind of jargon should hey use to promote PS

    the crazy part is i could barely hear romans answer but i could hear Nancy loud and clear

    however it sounded like he was saying that he didnt have any other way to put it and legally he had to leave it the way it was described as is on the website ???? but dont quote me on that one lol

    check it out for yourself if you got time its like 60mins long lol

  17. #1639
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    where can I go hear the interview, do you have a link?

  18. #1640
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by intheknow View Post
    where can I go hear the interview, do you have a link?
    profitablesunriseinvestigation.com

  19. #1641
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Now there are some clowns who are saying that Roman is currently moving servers to China cause he just updated DNS to Chinese BIZCN registrar.

    Like this one: profitablesunrise update : drgurmeet.com

    For those who believe that open your eyes and look that domain record was last altered on 05-jan-2013.

    And BIZCN was always the registrar of profitablesunrise.com

  20. #1642
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthloldotcom View Post
    no need to spill to me

    i see it for what it really is and have from the beginning

    what i was saying for the people who are not up on the details of the D&C

    or doing thier own due dillegence to get to the bottom of whats really going on

    and are only being feed info from thier private PS group leaders

    its not that obvious just yet to most folks that they have been scammed

    due to the C & D orders

    ITS BEING EASILY SPUN !!

    if you deny that then your in denial yourself

    roman needs to be caught red handed and he hasnt @least not yet

    matter of fact most dont even know if dude even exist

    and even with that fact most are still just waiting on an email or a voice mail from him

    no one is even still @ this point trying to figure out if he is a physical human being

    as far as the folks on the PS private group side

    most are still holding onto that Roman is working to move the business out of the long hands of the US
    I'm afraid that denial is a big issue for many victims of these money games. Noone likes to admit they have been conned. If the US government agencies had ignored their obligation to warn and/or put out Cease and Distist orders and had let Profitable Sunrise implode, there would have still been a bunch of "in-profit" shills coming out with a load of BS about Roman's innocence and there would have still been people willing to believe them - and follow them to their next "new best thing" and lose some more money.

    The most hopeful sign, apart from stopping the existing scams from recruiting new members money, as has happened in PS are the claw back actions now being taken by the SEC in Zeek Rewards against the net winners of that scheme. Clawbacks can hurt the winners and stand a chance of making them more careful what they promote or join in the future, especially if the clawbacks are meaningful sums of money. We dont know the outcome yet of the Zeek clawbacks, but clawbacks do have a significant effect on all but the hard line promoters. If this is going to be the state of things to come with closed down ponzis, then it will certainly clip the wings of the diehards.

    The best scenario will be when big promoters are prosecuted for their part in the schemes. It will be interesting what action is taken against Nanci Jo, if any.

  21. #1643
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Alabama has gone from an Investor Alert on March 5 to a cease-and-desist order March 14 that names two alleged promoters.

    http://www.asc.state.al.us/News/2013...%20Sunrise.pdf

    This is significant in a few ways. For example, other states could follow the same blueprint. Beyond that, it shows that investigators aren't sitting on their hands.

    But perhaps the biggest thing is that it demonstrates the type of potential liability to which "Roman Novak" and Profitable Sunrise have exposed the individual pitchmen.

    This harkens back to when things started to go south at JSSTripler/JustBeenPaid. Frederick Mann more or less announced that the promoters could be on their own if the government moved against the "program." Naturally, he dialed up the antigovernment vitriol.

    These "programs" create civil liability and potentially even criminal liability for the pitchmen. Minnesota also has named alleged ProfitableSunrise pitchmen, including one fresh from Zeek Rewards. Kentucky has named an alleged pitchwoman. New Zealand has named an alleged pitchman, along with NJF Global Group.

    PPBlog
    Last edited by PPBlog; 03-18-2013 at 11:23 AM. Reason: added details

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  23. #1644
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by NikSam View Post
    profitablesunriseinvestigation.com
    Thanks! Am halfway thru this interview now....I certainly hope someone has handed this over to the feds and to the Toledo tv reporter that is supposedly doing the story on her

  24. #1645
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    This case isn't precisely on point, but it is largely on point -- the point being that scammers often say they accept "loans" from customers to lend the money out at a higher interest rate, thus creating the "profits."

    New today in Suffolk County, Mass: Pay attention to the wording: "usury" and "loan sharking" were used by prosecutors to describe the alleged activities of Viking Financial Group, Inc. and its alleged operators, Steven and Lori Palladino:

    From a statement by the office of Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel F. Conley after an investigation by Boston police led to Ponzi charges (italics/bolding added):

    Prosecutors allege that Viking borrowed money from investors, who were told by Steven Palladino that the funds would be used to provide loans at a higher interest rate. Very little of the money was used to make loans, prosecutors said, and it instead funded a lavish lifestyle for the Palladinos. Money borrowed from new investors was then used to repay earlier investors and to make monthly interest payments to all of the investors, prosecutors said.

    Transactions show that investors’ money was often transferred from Viking’s account into personal accounts held by the Palladinos and used to cover personal expenses including a vacation in the Bahamas, rent for Steven Palladino’s mistress, and hundreds of thousands of dollars paid to casinos to cover apparent gambling losses, prosecutors said.

    In addition, Steven Palladino allegedly made use of investors’ funds when he paid $350,000 to satisfy a condition of his probation on a 2007 Superior Court conviction for defrauding an elderly relative.


    Among the charges: "three counts of usury, commonly referred to as loan sharking," prosecutors said.

    Source:

    Husband, Wife Charged in Alleged Multi-Million-Dollar Scam | Suffolk County District Attorney's Office

    PPBlog

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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    As usual the silence from the major promoters of PS is deafening. No MyriadForce quoting scripture on how God is blessing PS and will resurrect it from the dead. And of course the faithful are trying all kinds of excuses for why the website is not back up after 4 days. A few picked up on the comment that supposedly came from Roman about his being in Hong Kong that one of the first things he did was get a massage. Now that was funny in a sick way.

    Sadly many are holding to hope that the website will be back and PS will be back paying again. Many are willing to give it a week before they will be willing to admit it is over. Others will hang on hoping for much longer. All the newbies are in denial right now, while the major players have moved on to their next Ponzi de Jour just like they always do. And of course they will claim they were duped just like everyone else.

    Thus the viscious cyle will repeat itself until the next Ponzi de Jour collapses, and it will be rinse, spin and do it again.
    EagleOne
    Author: "Robbing You With A Keyboard Instead Of A Gun - Cyber Crime How They Do It" available in soft cover and eBook at Amazon.com

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  27. #1647
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleOne View Post
    As usual the silence from the major promoters of PS is deafening. No MyriadForce quoting scripture on how God is blessing PS and will resurrect it from the dead. And of course the faithful are trying all kinds of excuses for why the website is not back up after 4 days. A few picked up on the comment that supposedly came from Roman about his being in Hong Kong that one of the first things he did was get a massage. Now that was funny in a sick way.

    Sadly many are holding to hope that the website will be back and PS will be back paying again. Many are willing to give it a week before they will be willing to admit it is over. Others will hang on hoping for much longer. All the newbies are in denial right now, while the major players have moved on to their next Ponzi de Jour just like they always do. And of course they will claim they were duped just like everyone else.

    Thus the viscious cyle will repeat itself until the next Ponzi de Jour collapses, and it will be rinse, spin and do it again.


    Well.. you guy's are right again.. Looks like Faith Sloan is already Pimping another ponzi :Leaf Power Team Meeting With the Owners | Faith Sloan Gray Matter: Making Cash, Advertising/Marketing, and Ramblings - faithsloan.com

  28. #1648
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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by fishbay View Post
    Well.. you guy's are right again.. Looks like Faith Sloan is already Pimping another ponzi :Leaf Power Team Meeting With the Owners | Faith Sloan Gray Matter: Making Cash, Advertising/Marketing, and Ramblings - faithsloan.com
    Is anyone suprised. This is what the Faith Sloan's and Ken Russo's do. They go from Ponzi to Ponzi. I'm sure you will see Ken Russo pimping this too, along with several others.
    EagleOne
    Author: "Robbing You With A Keyboard Instead Of A Gun - Cyber Crime How They Do It" available in soft cover and eBook at Amazon.com

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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Now, New Jersey with an Investor Alert . . .

    From Attorney General General Jeffrey S. Chiesa:

    “Like many frauds, this offer sounds too good to be true – and it appears to be just that. Investors across the country, including here in New Jersey, are reporting this fraud and we’re alerting our residents so they can avoid becoming victims.”

    Source:

    State of New Jersey

    PPblog

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    Re: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
    A good lawyer wouldn't bother, as at the law the important thing to establish is if it has value, and that's all.
    Consumer products, including memberships in the country clubs, have value as well. They are not governed by the same laws as investments. They are governed by the laws that basically make them deliver what they claim to deliver.

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