Thread: Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

Originally Posted by Finix

The only thing I truly enjoyed in the industry is the exchanger business. You know it's not scamming, it's work. In the U.S. it's illegal to be an exchanger, so I'm not, but I'm really pissed about not being able to do what I like.

PS is like exchanging, you exchange your money for upwards of hundreds of other people's money.

You won't get caught unless you run the thing, or make it your life's passion like Nanci or Faith.

Or you can be like the people here exchanging their time for fighting against scams.

Or you can be like me and be here out of boredom.

Originally Posted by Fendaril

Or you can be like me and be here out of boredom.

I have this idea about how to legalize the industry without legalizing fraud. It's an online simulation game, sort of like Second Life, only it would simulate the industry. People would purchase game tokens and then play in ponzies all they want with tokens and without being afraid of the law or naysayers. There would be forumspayment processors, exchangers - everything the industry has. Then I can be an exhchager in the U.S., the admins would be heros instead of villians and all that.

It can be legal to run HYIP programs and exchange money(if I understand the way you use the term correctly). It would be safer to give them a set limit on how long they should operate. Along the lines of like 5 months. This way it wouldn't get out of hand too fast.

Originally Posted by Fendaril

It can be legal to run HYIP programs and exchange money (if I understand the way you use the term correctly). It would be safer to give them a set limit on how long they should operate. Along the lines of like 5 months. This way it wouldn't get out of hand too fast.

How can it be legal if it's already illegal?

Is there some sort of secret understanding between the LE and the industry that we need to know about? Keep it small and we won't put you in jail or something?

Originally Posted by Finix

How can it be legal if it's already illegal?

I meant change it from illegal to legal to operate for a few months.

Originally Posted by Fendaril

I meant change it from illegal to legal to operate for a few months.

If I had an on-off switch of this sort, I wouldn't sitting on this damn forum crying over my dream killed by the Feds.

Originally Posted by Finix

The only thing I truly enjoyed in the industry is the exchanger business. You know it's not scamming, it's work. In the U.S. it's illegal to be an exchanger, so I'm not, but I'm really pissed about not being able to do what I like.

It is not illegal to be an exchanger in the US. It is only against the law to be an exchanger for Ponzi's. Exchange for legal companies, and you can run your business to your hearts content. Deal with crooks and you will be shut down and charged just like them.

Originally Posted by Fendaril

It can be legal to run HYIP programs and exchange money(if I understand the way you use the term correctly). It would be safer to give them a set limit on how long they should operate. Along the lines of like 5 months. This way it wouldn't get out of hand too fast.

Foot in mouth disease, Fendaril?
You appear to be in denial that "HYIP" is inherently fraud from the start.

And we've seen programmes of this sort start up and crash in much less than 5 months.

Originally Posted by EagleOne

It is not illegal to be an exchanger in the US. It is only against the law to be an exchanger for Ponzi's. Exchange for legal companies, and you can run your business to your hearts content. Deal with crooks and you will be shut down and charged just like them.

You don't even understand what an exchanger does. It buys and sells e-currencies to customers. There is no way to verify who those customers are. And it's illegal in the U.S. to not know your customer in money transmitter business.

Haha I love the Eagle Two at MMG

It's illegal as with all the other countless HYIPs, past and present, but it is still paying, right ? If still paying, U cannot say it is scam, right ?

A comment from 'TopEarn'. It's illegal but it's not a scam, priceless.

It would be hilarious if Lyndell came in threw everyone off course.

Originally Posted by Finix

In the U.S. it's illegal to be an exchanger, so I'm not,

Actually, it's not. You do have to follow the record-keeping and reporting requirements of 31 CFR 103.37. And yes, as you write, that requires you to identify your customers. There is an obvious reason for that: the business is otherwise tailor-made for money laundering.

but I'm really pissed about not being able to do what I like.

Do you believe it's a good thing if criminals are able to sanitize boatloads of cash quickly and easily? Or do you only believe it's a good thing if it lets you do "what I like" and enables you to make money? You also believe it should be OK for you "to make a couple of bucks online from scamriding" - where "scamriding" is a euphemism for cheating those who don't know better, since not everyone who pisses away money on HYIPs is simply a knowledgeable gambler. In fact, of course, the knowledgeable gamblers rely on the rubes to keep the whole thing afloat with fresh money.

There seems to be a pattern here: if it's good for Finix . . .

Ten reasons as to why Profitable Sunrise is a scam and should be reported to the SEC.

1. An investment with a certain rate of return and no chance of default. Risk-free investments have such a low level of risk that it (risk) may be ignored. FINRA says, "Any time an investment purports to provide guaranteed above-market returns with no risk whatsoever, you should hear warning bells sounding."

2. The interest rate paid under the Long Haul is 2.70% PER BUSINESS DAY - This equals an annualized rate of return of 80,000% to 100,000% based up a 252 to 260 business day calendar. FINRA says, "Regardless of how the yield or return is presented, keep in mind that returns on investments in large company stocks have historically averaged less than 10% per year." FINRA is trying to give investors a benchmark for return and risk in regards to investments.

3. What company would ever pay 1.6%+ per day for a loan? Compare that to other loan options: PRIME is 3.25%, personal loans for 8%, auto loans for 1.50%, mortgages 2.5% to 4%, 401k loans 4.25%, 1 month commercial paper is 0.09%, etc. Not an annualized rate of 80,000% to 100,000%. Corporations typically use commercial paper, which consists of short-term, promissory notes issued primarily by corporations. Maturities range up to 270 days but average about 30 days. Many companies use CP to raise cash needed for current transactions, and many find it to be a lower-cost alternative to bank loans. They also use bankers’ acceptance which is created when a time draft drawn on a bank, usually to finance the shipment or temporary storage of goods, is stamped “accepted” by the bank. By accepting the draft, the bank makes an unconditional promise to pay the holder of the draft a stated amount at a specified date.

4. Profitable Sunrise does not have a registered investment and Roman Novak (the president) is not a licensed through FINRA- FINRA says, "Be aware that generally persons or firms offering securities to U.S. residents MUST be licensed by FINRA and registered with the SEC."


5. Our investments are insured by a leading investment bank - The FBI says, "To make their schemes more enticing, con artists often refer to the "guarantees" as being issued by the world's prime banks."

6. Profitable Sunrise utilizes e-currency accounts - FINRA says, "Virtually all HYIP sites require you to open an “e-currency” account from one of a number of online vendors that service the HYIP market. Be aware that while there is currently no federal regulation of e-currency sites, many states require “money transmitters” to register with the state’s banking regulator. An unlicensed e-currency site is a red flag."

7. Profitable Sunrise pays 5% on all deposits made by your down lines - FINRA warns, "Many HYIP ploys dangle the prospect of paying a “referral bonus” to those who bring in new investors with fresh streams of money. Remember that Ponzi schemes tend to collapse when the fraudster at the hub can no longer attract new investors, so perhaps it’s no surprise that HYIPs encourage participants to rope in new recruits to help keep the scheme afloat."

8. Profitable Sunrise operates out of Europe - FINRA warns, "Many HYIP sites are located outside the U.S. and typically are not licensed to sell securities in any country, let alone here."

9. The Long Haul can only be started from November 1, 2012 till March 1, 2013 - The FBI states a few warning signs such as, "You must act now or the offer won't be good. You can't afford to miss the high-profit, no risk offer."

10. Profitable Sunrise plays on Christian values and aspirations like using verses (Acts 20:35 and Ecclesiastes 7:1) and saying if you follow us, you will shortly praise the Lord that he led you here - FINRA published an investor fraud study back in 2006. In the report they found, "If the con has established that the victim is a deeply religious person, they will build that information into their pitch strategy. Many con criminals said the victim's religiosity was a factor in how they persuaded them to turn over money." The SEC also warns that, "Affinity fraud refers to investment scams that prey upon members of identifiable groups, such as religious or ethnic communities, the elderly, or professional groups. The fraudsters who promote affinity scams frequently are - or pretend to be - members of the group."

[QUOTE=Rumsfield;46721]Ten reasons as to why Profitable Sunrise is a scam and should be reported to the SEC.

Most dangerous words in finance used to be, "Its different this time", now it appears to be "people I don't even know, on the web who knows where, claim they are being paid, so this one is not a scam"

8. Profitable Sunrise operates out of Europe - FINRA warns, "Many HYIP sites are located outside the U.S. and typically are not licensed to sell securities in any country, let alone here."

Neither Profitable Sunrise, nor Inter Reef are licensed to sell securities in the UK where Inter Reef is registered as a limited liability company with no capital, but no more. Profitable Sunrise is not even registered as a company in the UK. In order to be legal, They would have to be licensed with the FSA (UK version of FINRA) the same applies in most of Europe and many other countries. Simply being outside the US does not protect a business from prosecution for illegality.

Originally Posted by wserra

those who don't know better, since not everyone who pisses away money on HYIPs is simply a knowledgeable gambler

They can learn like the rest of us did. Took me years 'cuz I really suck at it, but I did learn nonetheless.

Originally Posted by wserra

Do you believe it's a good thing if criminals are able to sanitize boatloads of cash quickly and easily?

What boatloads of cash? Most orders are $10-$20 and involve exchanging from one e-currency to another. I start asking people for IDs, I won't last a day in the business.

Originally Posted by Rumsfield

Ten reasons as to why Profitable Sunrise is a scam and should be reported to the SEC.

SEC is busy sorting through scams that are actually registered with them. The registration doesn't stop a company from being a scam. Those registrations, licenses are for rich people playing real world money games that leave the rest of the world poor. Nobody in the industry can afford those things. It should be understood, don't bet a farm.

Originally Posted by Finix

What boatloads of cash? Most orders are $10-$20 and involve exchanging from one e-currency to another. I start asking people for IDs, I won't last a day in the business.

This is not true as I can give examples of exchangers with much larger turnover who do ask for IDs......

IMO these posts about exchangers should be split to another thread as it could be a most interesting discussion...

Originally Posted by okosh

This is not true as I can give examples of exchangers with much larger turnover who do ask for IDs

If they have larger orders, it makes sense to ask for IDs to prevent money laundering. There are a billion exchangers in the industry, I'd have to offer something special to compete.

In any case, those IDs for huge orders are going to be just as fake as the admins themselves. Whom does it help if an exchanger ends up with a bunch of fake IDs for record keeping? The LE with its huge resources can't find 99.9% of scammers. They want other people to do their job for them?

Originally Posted by Rumsfield

Profitable Sunrise plays on Christian values and aspirations like using verses (Acts 20:35 and Ecclesiastes 7:1) and saying if you follow us, you will shortly praise the Lord that he led you here

Any true Christian will see right through this BS. Nowhere in the bible the material gains are promised, quite the opposite.

Originally Posted by wserra

Actually, it's not. You do have to follow the record-keeping and reporting requirements of 31 CFR 103.37. And yes, as you write, that requires you to identify your customers. There is an obvious reason for that: the business is otherwise tailor-made for money laundering.




Do you believe it's a good thing if criminals are able to sanitize boatloads of cash quickly and easily? Or do you only believe it's a good thing if it lets you do "what I like" and enables you to make money? You also believe it should be OK for you "to make a couple of bucks online from scamriding" - where "scamriding" is a euphemism for cheating those who don't know better, since not everyone who pisses away money on HYIPs is simply a knowledgeable gambler. In fact, of course, the knowledgeable gamblers rely on the rubes to keep the whole thing afloat with fresh money.

There seems to be a pattern here: if it's good for Finix . . .

Yes, I don't think he ever denied it was about him wanting something conveniant for him.

I don't think anyone really does much in this world that inconveniences them in the cut-throat online business world.

Originally Posted by Fendaril

I don't think anyone really does much in this world that inconveniences them in the cut-throat online business world.

They argue so much, they miss the beauty of the primary capital accumulation scene. They are confronted with the vision of what their own economy looked like in the beginning and they can't stand the site of it. Weird.

Originally Posted by Finix

They argue so much, they miss the beauty of the primary capital accumulation scene. They are confronted with the vision of what their own economy looked like in the beginning and they can't stand the site of it. Weird.

Haha lets not bring economy into this. America was built by ambitious travelers looking for gold. Resulting in massive genocide, slavery, and near extinction. What are morals but a projection of what people know they will never achieve, moral purity.

Everyone has their vices, there are just those who have ones greater than others, and they are the target of the double standard naysayers arguing under the guise of 'justice or objectivity'.

Its like the good and bad cops games I played as a kid. No matter which side I played, I was still a cop.