Thread: Dr. Bob (aka Robert Gube-Zitrin) fraud or guru ?

Hello Again Ribshaw.

As to what I tell people in my classes, you would find that in the very least I am considered a bit on the avant gaurde style and definitely brutally honest with people. When I tell people that I wont be seeing most of them here again next year, that is a challenge. It is my style and it has worked well for me for many a year. You are welcome to attend one of my classes if you like so you can see what I mean. It's just me.
Yes, I was a tattoo artist for many years, it's how I worked my way through school for one thing. I got $200.00 an hour for my own work and $100.00 an hour (50%) from the work that my employees did. It was extremely hard not to make six figures, multiple six figures. And that is off of one shop, I had six. You are dead wrong as to the money that a good tattoo shop in Greenwich Village New York can make, but I will attribute that to just being a subject which you are unfamiliar with.

I am called Dr. Bob because I am a certified hypnotherapist and at one time had quite a decent practice running. I am not an MD, never claimed to be.

At the same time that I had my tattoo shops, I was also with Wizetrade, and had a 350 machine vending route.
I ran them all through proper delegation. It is what I am best at.

Statistics can be broken. I have broken quite a few of them.

Most people never learn to trade well, but a few do. But does that mean that people should not trade cause they probably won't be good at it. People strive to be better. It is our duty to let them and not to tell them don't do anything because you probably won't be any good at it.

I didn't have billions given to me to trade but I did have millions given to me to trade.I am very, very good at it.

To read it , it sounds like debbie downer, to hear me say it, it comes off as a challenge.

The price of the software was the price of the software. I paid it willingly and so did thousands of others. Many of them are still with me to this day.

I said Ken Roberts was my start in trading, not my final learning experience. I developed all of my own trading strategies, some of them quite unique and with proper money management, very profitable.

Regards,
Dr. Bob

Originally Posted by EagleOne

I know I am going to hate myself for asking this, but Dr Bob do explain where yoiu got your doctorate to be called Dr.

Same place as Dr Goddie Ude...In a box of rice krispies....

Originally Posted by Dr. Bob

Hello Again Ribshaw. You are dead wrong as to the money that a good tattoo shop in Greenwich Village New York can make, but I will attribute that to just being a subject which you are unfamiliar with.

Dr. Bob, I think you should go back and reread the part of my post on tattooing, and look at my free form cut and paste. My statement had nothing to do with what a good tattoo artist can make, in fact that is exactly why I made the analogy. It was a statement of what "I" could make. As in me. I can no sooner write my name legibly than draw art on people's skin.

In your world, I could somehow become a great tattoo artist if I just got the right training, or I should at least have the option of paying $3500 for a shot even if I was in no way remotely qualified. In my world things just don't work that way.

Originally Posted by Dr. Bob

I am called Dr. Bob because I am a certified hypnotherapist and at one time had quite a decent practice running.

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa HaHaHaHa

Bobby, Bobby, Bobby.

Thank you for the Laugh of the Week.

My goodness,

I haven't seen anyone try to pull that one since the 1980s.

"CERTIFIED HYPNOTHERAPIST"

Where did you get your "certificate" Bobby ???

"Freds' Magic Shop and Hypnotherapy School" ???

The Doctor of Clinical Hypnotherapy (DCH) degree is an unaccredited degree in the United States [1]. However, it is important to understand voluntary educational accreditation.
When such a degree is available, in addition to live classes, it may be granted by schools offering distance education, usually in conjunction with existing hypnotherapy certification programs. Because the majority of hypnotherapy degrees are offered through programs that are unaccredited in nature, they do not have to meet any requirements established by national licensing standards.
The Doctor of Clinical Hypnotherapy (DCH) degree was an unaccredited doctoral degree offered in the United States, which provided in-depth theory and training in applied clinical hypnotherapy. Individual programs offered by institutions in the US vary but generally combine distance learning with local practicum training. Because some hypnotherapy degrees are offered through programs that are unaccredited in nature, they do not have to meet any requirements established by national licensing standards. However, the American Institute of Hypnotherapy (AIH) was approved by the California Bureau for Private Postsecondary & Vocational Education (Bureau for Private Postsecondary Education). But the former FBI consultant Dr John Bear said there was a world of difference between "approval" and "accreditation". Revealed: another top adviser has dodgy degree - Independent.ie . BPPVE do not accredit programmes. According to the BPPVE database, (as of 25 May 2010) The American Institute of Hypnotherapy is now located at 27105 Arriba Way, Carmel, CA 93923 but indicate that they no longer offer degree training in clinical hypnotherapy.

Accredited doctorate degrees in mental health, such as M.D., Ph.D., Psy.D., and Ed.D., are tightly controlled by state and federal laws. The D.C.H. degree is largely unregulated. There is a growing concern among these professionals that hypnotists are misleading consumers.^[1] Some have illegally attempted to offer psychotherapy under generic titles such as "doctor" or "psychotherapist", without proper training or background.

A 2002 experiment conducted by psychologist Dr. Steve Eichel, called "This Cat Is Not a Hypnotist", shows how he was able to obtain a hypnotherapy degree for his cat "Zoe".http://www.hypnosisnetwork.com/library/cat_hypnosis.php
Dr. Eichel applied for and was able to obtain a variety of credentials on Zoe's behalf. In order to get her certified as a hypnotherapist by the National Guild of Hypnotists (NGH), the International Medical & Dentistry Hypnotherapy Association (IMDHA) and the American Board of Hypnotherapy (ABH), he only had to fill out online applications with made-up information and pay the application fee.

Wikipedia Doctor of Clinical Hypnotherapy


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HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa HaHaHaHa
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa HaHaHaHa

Ribshaw,

There are very few people that cannot learn to tattoo. It is only tracing. You put a stencil on a persons skin and follow the lines. Unless you are talking about drawing your own pictures (which I don't do), you buy what is called flash, and the flash comes with a line drawing from which you make a stencil that you apply to the persons skin. It is much easier to do basic tattooing than most people think. For every "great piece of art" tattoo, there are a hundred, road runners, tweetie birds, etc. That and names are your bread and butter. In my shops there was one artist in each shop who could draw, the rest did stencil work. I paid a tattooist $10,000.00 to teach me to tattoo and let me practice in his shop. Six months of practice and I had it down. His name is Ernie (forget the last name) but he owns a chain of shops in new jersey called The Tattoo Factory. The one I worked in was in Wayne, and is now run by Ernies son Casey.

Hypnotherapy is much like Chiropractory, when I was a kid chiroproactors were considered quacks and called "back breakers, or back crackers". In time, I am hoping hypnosis is thought of in a better light. But I dont think that has anything to do with the topic, that is just another attempt some of the less informed people than you are making at a character assassination of me.

Again I offer you the opportunity to sit in on one of my classes and you decide if what I teach is of value.

As for lying, come to my class, speak to people who have known me for 13 years and followed me because I was always honest with them. You will also meet people who I know a few months who will tell you the same. I tell people the good and I EMPHASIZE the bad. I know most of the people here just look for stuff to laugh at, but unfortunately, this time, you have picked maybe one of the few honest guys in the world of Network/MLM marketing. I know a few of them by the way, not many.

If you don't believe it, come to my class. There are 23 people who come to my trading and marketing classes who I don't even charge because they dont have the money. And I dont make money off of them in any other way either. If a person wants to get into one of my programs and doesnt have the money, I pay his way in out of my own pocket. I have done it dozens of times. As for selling tapes, books, etc., When I was with Wizetrade, I worked for free, I was unpaid. They produced one dvd of me that they sold. I didnt get a dime. In fact with wizetrade I gave free lessons 6 nights a week, to any who were having trouble. There was a year and a half waiting list to get in to my free classes. If you don't believe this, I can put you in touch with the wizetrade people and they will verify each and every word.

I can prove each and every word that I say, if you are willing to come to one of my classes and speak to people.

With my network program, I give free mentoring to people that I don't make one single cent off of. Many hours per day. I don't sell them tapes, books, nothing. I don't need the money anymore, I do it because I enjoy it. I enjoy seeing people smile if they make a sale, or a good trade, or whatever. There are a few of us left in this world.

As for the price wizetrade and premier trade charged. I didnt sell anything for them and I didnt get paid by Wizetrade. I was however a paid instructor for Premiere and one of the other reasons that they fired me is that after they gave a seminar, each night I would gather up the traders in one of their hotel rooms and trade the night away with them, making sure they could implement the stuff that I taught them. You want proof, come to one of my classes. Some of the old premier trade students are in the class.

I have met every challenge that you have put in front of me head on. I hide from nothing. You tell me Ribshaw, you seem to be one of the few in here who is actually willing to discuss things, have I ducked anything of importance? An honest man doesnt have to hide.

Again Regards,
Dr. Bob

PS. My phone is always open and I am very willing to talk to you.

Ribshaw,

I think I am done with defending myself. Like I said, I have met every challenge head on. If I said I was Jewish you guys would want to see my circumcision (i think that is funny, the rest of you wont though, lol).
From this point you guys just write whatever you want. I have a clear conscience.
The invitation still stands, come to a class and speak to people who know me for years, and people who know me for months. The proof is in the pudding? Well, I am offering you a spoon.

With deep respect,
Dr. Bob

A Junior Tuition
Will cost you $25.00 per month

I am so sure of our program that if we invited you here tonight and you can prove to us that you don’t have the $25.00 to begin,

We will lend it to you!



By the way Ribshaw, I have never taken the 25 bucks back from one single person. If they are in need, I just give it to them. I tell them lend or else they have to much pride to take it.

Originally Posted by path2prosperity

Donald Trump would not need a network marketing company to develop his network. He has a huge network and loosing every dime would not take that away from him. If he took over a network marketing company there would be no networking. Trump would run the thing as an autocracy.

Most people start to develop develop their own network of friends and aquantances at school. Upper crust Brits are well known for using contacts who wear the old school tie. You do not start developing a network by signing up for some crumby online network marketing school. You start in your pre teens

Wasn't there some sort of MLM program associated with him?
The Trump Network Is Dead

And speaking of "Universities"...

This article is as of April 18, 2013...

Appeals Court Rejects Trump U.'s Claims Against a Student Who Sued - The Ticker - The Chronicle of Higher Education

Since you guys posted that A university needs a charter (which is not entirely true, you can be an unaccredited university, in an attempt to be cooperative, I changed today from university to school.
I am trying to interact. But other than Ribshaw, most just make fun and talk about my looks, and other silly stuff. But I change every single thing that has merit. I don't want to fight with you guys. I want to be "compliant", but I see most here are just so anti-networking that what I say, means nothing.

Depressed,
Dr. Bob

mlm watchdog, who is one of your guys I believe when he even slightly said that what I was posting had merit, was shot right down, fast and hard

Originally Posted by EagleOne

The acronym for Double Up Dollars says it all: DUD. You can't make this stuff up folks.

I know I am going to hate myself for asking this, but Dr Bob do explain where yoiu got your doctorate to be called Dr.

From the same educational foundation as the financial genius Dr Mara of V-Lane fame?
Or did he attend "Thrive University" with SusyQ?

"Dr Mara" and Thrive University spokesperson SusyQ with V-Lane financial gurus.

Originally Posted by Dr. Bob

Hypnotherapy is much like Chiropractory,

Just as Volkswagens are "much like" Porsches.

Only they are not Porsches and never will be Porsches.

Oh, and, BTW, it's "chiropractIC" not chiropractory

And a "certified hypnotherapist" will never be a "medically qualified hypnotherapist"

Are you a licensed medical doctor, registered nurse, social worker, or family counselor who has received additional training in hypnotherapy or are you a member of the American Society of Clinical Hypnosis (ASCH) holding a doctorate in medicine, dentistry, podiatry or psychology, or a master's level degree in nursing, social work, psychology or marital/family therapy with at least 20 hours of ASCH approved training in hypnotherapy ??

The Difference in Doctors

Doctors are doctors right?

Not so.

In some cases, you may find someone claiming to hold a Doctorate degree in Hypnosis. They may preface their name with "Dr‟ or append the initials DCH after their name.

The catch is that there are no accredited doctorial programs for Hypnosis.

So how can someone claim to be a Doctor of Hypnosis?

The answer is that the credentials being advertised were obtained through a non accredited program.

This is very confusing and disturbing because the public‟s assumption is that anyone claiming to be a doctor has gone through years of training in a fully accredited program.

When in fact, there are non accredited programs that offer Doctorate degrees in as little as six months with no prior college education required.

Although the actual Hypnosis training may be good, it doesn't compare to the amount of schooling and experience required to earn a fully accredited doctorate degree.

The ability to obtain an unaccredited doctorate degree and advertise it as something it is not is an unfortunate by- product of the unregulated Hypnotherapy industry.

Interview Questions for people using Doctor or DCH in their title

What did they earn their doctorate in?

What school / program did they go through?

Was it a fully accredited doctorate of Hypnosis program? Note: None exist

How long did it take them to earn their degree ? Note: Most accredited programs require 8+years of university level schooling.

Ask for information on the program so you can check it out for your Choosing a Qualified Hypnotherapist

Originally Posted by Dr. Bob

I see most here are just so anti-networking that what I say, means nothing.
Depressed,
Dr. Bob

Nobody is against networking Bob. Most people have an extended family network, a network of friends from school or college and a network of friends from social life or past jobs. However we know these people and we know that they exist. RS members do not condone networking with colleagues of people like Bob Krimm who are wanted by Interpol or the deceased Jill Bachman who was one of the biggest Andy Bowdoin scam winners and promoters.

To call networking with Krimm or Bachman's mates legitimate network marketing, is sheer lunacy.

Originally Posted by littleroundman

Thank you for the Laugh of the Week.

My goodness,

I haven't seen anyone try to pull that one since the 1980s.

"CERTIFIED HYPNOTHERAPIST"

Where did you get your "certificate" Bobby ???

"Freds' Magic Shop and Hypnotherapy School" ???

He could have a diploma in neurolinguistic programming. Roger Macdavitt from Adlandpro boasts about his nlp hypnotherapy diploma and calls himself Dr Macdavitt, which gives the impression that he is also a medical practitioner. Neither Roger Macdavitt nor Dr Bob should use the term doctor. I have a certificate in neurolinguistic programing which I received after a one day training course to use the ABC of the technique to augment my skills in interviewing and selecting electronic hardware and software engineers for key jobs. It was fairly useful if you used the conclusions as nothing more than an adjunct to other learned skills and intuitive processes. If I took Dr Bob's argument seriously, I would call myself Dr Judy.

Many members of the certified hypnotherapist Dr Roger Macdavitt's downline called him Sir Roger and he bathed in the accolade for some time. Roger Macdavitt is not a medical practitioner and neither is our DrBob.

At least DrBob has not posted as "Sir Robert"

Originally Posted by Dr. Bob

Ribshaw,

Hypnotherapy is much like Chiropractory, when I was a kid chiroproactors were considered quacks and called "back breakers, or back crackers". In time, I am hoping hypnosis is thought of in a better light.

Hypnosis is a useful tool in the hands of a medically qualified practitioner. I knew a neurophysiologist who practiced hypnotherapy and she was brilliant. She diagnosed a co-worker in the office as having breathing problems and he took no notice. Two years later he collapsed in his lunch hour and had to be rushed to hospital gasping for breath. He listened to her after that and he let her help him breathe more easily with hypnosis. He was thrilled with the results and she did not charge him a fee.

My son was ten years old when she met him for the first time and she told us both that he had a serious balance problem. She said that she could sort it out with hypnosis which would cost a bomb or that he could try to over compensate by taking up a sport like cycling or rowing. He took up both but excelled in rowing where he represented UK in the junior world championships and obtained a half blue for rowing at Oxford University.

She told us about several of her success stories and one that interested me was when she treated a policeman with hypnosis. The man had developed a terror of seeing dead bodies and his career depended on being able to overcome his phobia. She said that he had four sessions with her and he found that he was able to cope at the scene or an accident after it.

Another of her successes was curing a woman who had developed a nervous habit of pulling her hair out by the roots causing pain and excessive bleeding.

She told us that hypnosis for smoking or alcoholism was a sham but I am afraid that I can not remember her reasons.

She said she tried her hand at pain control hypnosis when an amputee came to her as the stump of his leg had started growing again. She was unable to carry on as she developed sympathetic pain and shared his suffering.

This woman was a medically qualified practitioner and she knew how to use the techniques but there were many thing that she would not attempt.

Originally Posted by Dr. Bob

You tell me Ribshaw, you seem to be one of the few in here who is actually willing to discuss things, have I ducked anything of importance? An honest man doesnt have to hide.

I have always liked to look at business opportunities, scams, the stock market and the like. Working or as in the case now (not working as much) from a home office gives me a lot of time to be online. Before I found this site, I could waste away a few hours a day arguing politics, and on a slow day still do. But to what end, other than neutral observers it is the same people with 20 different ids arguing the same things every day. Here, there is no advertising and it gives people a format where they can research or more importantly learn to research "opportunities". And there is a very good collection of posters with many separate skill sets, and although everyone has a different approach I feel pretty comfortable that when they call something a scam, it is a scam.

I like to go back and forth with people, I like to think through my positions and then put them in writing, and in some arrogant way I hope that 1 or 2 of the 900 people who read this thread find something I say either funny or useful. On that last part Dr. Bob I think this is where this site shines, people may not be having YOU come to the Ramada with the latest and greatest asking for $3500, but SOMEBODY damn sure will.

Now not to pile on, but I am skeptical of your claims. There are two basic GURU stories, the rags to riches, and the golden boy. Six Tattoo shops, 350 vending machines, $30k to a $1.2Mil in a year and a half, and Real Estate. Yet at the same time you failed to see Zeek, Profitable Sunrise, Adwallet, and DUD for what they were. And for my money, I question why someone with your Bona Fides would even bother. But ok you were new to Ponzi. But what about trading?

WizeTrade and Premiere Trade got very poor reviews from users but you told me that you were always honest with your classes. 98% won't be here next year, it takes work, and I could even pass if you were involved in one and learned your lesson. But both, so I read a little last night.

http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/public...mieretrade.com

http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/public....wizetrade.com

This clip was the one I found most interesting:

Dr. Bob Comment.JPG

I contrast this with two posters "claiming" to be employees, but based on what I have read by other posters they sound legit:

Wizetrade.jpg
wizetrade1.JPG

And this just made me laugh:

Wizetrade2.JPG

There are a few things here, that concern me, on a Guru level, and on a James Dicks Level. How could you not have known? Wize Guys - - News - Houston - Houston Press

According to the Texas State Securities Board, GlobalTec founder George Thompson was never a licensed financial adviser or securities dealer.

Not much is known about Thompson before he met self-described Dallas philanthropist Marc Sparks around 2000. (See "Who Is Marc Sparks?") Sparks was in the midst of a class-action suit against his failed insurance group, Unistar Financial. Unistar would partially settle in 2001, paying about $1.7 million to investors who said Sparks and others artificially inflated the stock price. In 2003, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filed its own suit against Sparks and Unistar.

Prior to meeting Sparks and Thompson, Dicks sold a forex system called Trade Signal Pro. His partners were two guys who had previously been accused by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission of defrauding 175 investors out of $760,000. They had purchased a previous incarnation of Trade Signal Pro, called Currency Trading Systems.

One pitchman, Michael Stewart of Arizona, told audiences that he made mad money with the Currency Trading Systems when, according to his settlement with the CFTC, he actually lost $10,500 in the one year he used it. His co-defendants lost a combined $54,000 using the system. Stewart did not admit or deny any wrongdoing.

Before he met Sparks and Thompson, Dicks says in the deposition, he was wasting away in "hypothetical" make-work jobs for his uncle as well as an Orlando company called Dynetech, which later bought GlobalTec.

In the promotional material from archived Web sites for one of his previous companies, Dicks was described as having been a licensed professional financial adviser since 1991 whose "last project for a client grossed over 30 million dollars of new revenue." In truth, Dicks didn't get involved in finance until the mid-1990s, and records at the National Association of Securities Dealers do not indicate he was ever a licensed broker-dealer or financial adviser. His previous jobs included working at a company that sold clothes made by Oregon prisoners to retailers in Germany, and failing as an affordable-housing developer.

That was Dicks's introduction into the world of finance. So it may not have struck him as odd when, according to his deposition, Sparks and Thompson arbitrarily made him the "founder" of 4XME. Hell, Dicks didn't even know how to use the software. In his deposition, he says he lost money on the damn thing. But he had fresh-scrubbed Waspy good looks, and he gave good seminar

Have no idea who krimm or bachman is, dont think they are with double up dollars. First time I have heard the names

Dr. Bob

Hello Ribshaw,

These are good. Ok, let me get into them. When I made the post, your first one, I was new to the company and believed every word of it. It was about a year later that I started to get calls from people who requested refunds from James and just never got them and they wanted to know if I could help. That was when things started to go downhill between me and James.
It only got worse from there. I was an instructor, nothing more. I had very little access to any company info, in fact none. As for that first post, opinions change as more info is gathered.
I am hoping your opinion is changing

By the way, I never claimed rags to riches, maybe the company did, but there was never a point where I said I was poor. I was very sick at one point but I was not broke. If people write about me and assume rags to riches, I dont know about it that I can recall. If you remind me, maybe, lol. But it was never my claim.

When I was with premiere, I could make the software work by using a combo of premiere and candle sticks and basic tools like bollingers, etc and at least ten of my own design. I proved it every day, by trading live in the market and calling the trades well in advance.

As far as George Thompson, I don't care what anyone writes about him. I know him very well and he is a guy who from everything that he ever showed me, cares about his clients. Sparks, just a money man, financed George.

The biggest problems people have with trading was not the software, it was their own discipline. Money management is the most important thing in trading and very few have the discipline to do it. I have seen great traders lose money because their discipline was awful. (you might consider that sentence a paradox, but take it the way it was meant).

As far as the pendulums, we still use it. Dicks hated it. We used the pendulum as a means of checking your subconscious for something that your conscious mind might have missed. Totally non-conformist for the rest of the world, but it worked for us. We would buy them by the barrel and sell them at cost when we gave a seminar. James hated that he made no money off of it and thought we were insane for selling them at cost, he wanted a cut.
We still to this day, dont make a trade without it. Kooky, yea, but it works for us.

We would even have people take off their necklaces to use as a pendulum, or teach people to make one from string and a small weight.
Do you think that we were unaware that many thought we were nuts or doing that, of course we did. But they came to the seminar to learn the way Dr. Bob trades, and that is the way that Dr. bob trades. Remember also, because we traded live accounts, we proved that it worked or at least worked for us. I can put you in contact with as many people as you want who will verify that we used it successfully and taught whole classes to do the same.

We also gave dozens of them away to people who wanted to try it and didnt have the money.

Orthodox, same as every one else, of course not. I never claimed to be status quo.
Question/possible objection answered?

Regards again,
Dr. Bob

By the way, even though I swore to myself I was done with this blog. I do find your questions worth answering. I feel they help to prove my sincerity.

another point of interest:

It was George Thompson who insisted at the risk of he himself quitting Wizetrade that I be given my own radio show, even though I was unpaid. I had a huge following waiting to get into my free classes and George got me off of the yahoo messenger rooms that I was giving my free classes in and instead patched me somehow into their system from my home so I could teach to hundreds instead of dozens. I did this for free and George did not charge the Wizetrade users for the classes either. They paid a monthly fee to Wizetrade, but they paid that before I was there also, nothing went up in price.

Dr. Bob
PS: James said I was teaching Vodoo trading with the pendulums, lol, he hated it!

Also Ribshaw,

The instructors had nothing to do with the company management, policies or anything else. Most of us had large followings and we loved what we were doing. (premiere)
Wizetrade, I broadcast from my home though some sort of patch in they set up, I didnt have a clue what went on in the company other than what George occasionally told me.

Dr. Bob

Originally Posted by Dr. Bob

Have no idea who krimm or bachman is, dont think they are with double up dollars. First time I have heard the names

Dr. Bob

That says a great deal about your concept of Internet Marketing Bob. You teach people to build an online network with any old Tom Dick and Harry with an Internet presence and claim that you have never heard of some of the top criminals who are Internet marketers.
For your information.

Bob Krimm was the owner of several failed autosurfs which scammed millions from innocent parties. He set up a fraudulent payment processor. Tri-Star moneychangers or something like that before newspapers brought his Empire down.

Jill Bachman was a spiritual counselor on Adlandpro, who also promoted convicted felon Andy Bowdoin's AsSurfDaily fraud to her Scamlandpro network. She is still revered by Scamlanders to this day.

Nicholas Smirnow who owned another scam Empire called Pathway2prosperity has arrest warrants in US and Canada but he escaped to The Philippines where he still runs his business from a coconut tree!

How can one advocate online internet marketing and teach students to get involved without warning them about dangerous criminals in the same business as you are ie ONLINE NETWORK MARKETING.

dr bob:

I have been reading this thread with much interest and some of your comments are quite entertaining, contradictory, self-grandizement, hypocrisy, and some are down-right laughable. But I do love it when the admin of their Ponzi de Jour come here and try to defend their Ponzi de Jour.

You said, and I quote:

"I am a very savvy internet marketer,, We were brand new to the HYIP things at that time. We lost 10k in Zeek. Made a few bucks in Profitable Sunrise, lost in Add Wallet, gofun, sol-r. By the way, when we promoted Profitable Sunrise we thought it was a real program, the whole thing about bridge loans made perfect sense to me since Hanna and I are in real estate and use bridge loans all the time."

Let me be blunt. You cannot be a savvy internet marketer and have participated in any of these Ponzi's. A savvy internet marketer would have seen these were Ponzi's a mile away. You also admit that even knowing they are Ponzi's you still like to play them, you just don't promote them as if that makes it all legitimate on your part. Seriously? You really want us to believe this malarky? For someone who claims they care about their customers, you sure don't care about all the people in the Ponzi's you like to play being robbed blind.

I especially loved your comment about Profitable Sunrise as you believed Roman was doing bridge loan funding since you and Hanna are in real estate and use bridge loans all the time. Now do you really expect us to believe this? So do tell me what interest rate do you pay for your bridge loans? Is it anywhere near 3%-5% per day? I am really interested in knowing what rate you do pay for your bridge loans.

But to be honest, the one statement you made regarding Ponzi's that had me rolling on the floor was this one, and I quote:

"They are not illegal until they are declared illegal."

To be honest I was shocked that you didn't use the person running the Ponzi is innocent until proven guilty. This is like saying that an airplane didn't crash until the NTSB says it crashed. Good grief Charlie Brown. Of course we can say they are illegal because Ponzi's are illegal. Doubt me read the definition.

But the part I really love is the video you and Hanna did explaining DUD. Now that is a classic description of and definition of a two-up Ponzi and an illegal pyramid program all in one presentation.

But what has fascinated me the most is your attempt at trying to make changes in your program thinking that if you do we will all support your program somehow. Do you really think this is going to happen, especially with your being this savvy internet marketer? Seriously?

Looking forward to your telling me the interest rates you pay for your bridge loans.

Our marketing program is a reverse 2 up,,, the same one the empower network uses,,, I guess they are a ponzi also?
last bridge loan we took cost us 40% for 45 days. by the way, last I heard in america, you are innocent until proven guilty, has that changed?

that 40% cost us 40k on a 100k loan. We flipped the property that same afternoon and made a total profit of 75k after all expenses including the loan.

Originally Posted by Dr. Bob

Our marketing program is a reverse 2 up,,, the same one the empower network uses,,, I guess they are a ponzi also?
last bridge loan we took cost us 40% for 45 days. by the way, last I heard in america, you are innocent until proven guilty, has that changed?

So you were paying 0.8% per day or 2.4% per month. Now would you have taken out a bridge loan with Roman who would charge you 3%-5% PER DAY?

Yes, you are still innocent until proven guilty, but only when you have had criminal charges filed against you and there will be a trial to determine your guilt. Doesn't stop someone from saying a person is a crook or is running a Ponzi.

Empower Network is nothing more than a cash gifting scheme disguised as a MLM program, which like a Ponzi is illegal. So, are you participating too?