Thread: Karatbars, invest in Gold, karatbars.com

It´s SEC?, so SEC we go:

When considering joining an MLM program, beware of these hallmarks of a pyramid scheme:

Easy money or passive income. Be wary if you are offered compensation in exchange for little work such as making payments, recruiting others, and placing advertisements.

Alike there is a compensation for buying Gold, there is also one for recruiting people only, that will buy more Gold (included in purchased packages and outside the packages). Every kind of purchase is always optional. All this identifys a Legitimate MLM Company


No demonstrated revenue from retail sales. Ask to see documents, such as financial statements audited by a certified public accountant (CPA), showing that the MLM company generates revenue from selling its products or services to people outside the program.

Working on that, will post soon

Complex commission structure. Be concerned unless commissions are based on products or services that you or your recruits sell to people outside the program. If you do not understand how you will be compensated, be cautious.

I personaly, as well as my uplines have sold Gold cards to people not particulary interested in making part of the program but that had found in the cards a good investment for them and their family.

The compensation program is quite clear, and not limited to the most stated, and a bit unreal to take in practice, 12 week plan. I see this plan as up to a good effect on a work effort stimulation purposes.

Emphasis on recruiting. If a program primarily focuses on recruiting others to join the program for a fee, it is likely a pyramid scheme. Be skeptical if you will receive more compensation for recruiting others than for product sales.

Not a fee. You Buy Gold, recruit others to buy more gold to the Company, and receive the commissions. As simple and as legitimate as that

The SEC has taken emergency enforcement action to stop alleged pyramid schemes that violate the federal securities laws, including schemes disguised as MLM programs.

I got this by Skype from a group of very p1$$ed off Karatbars people - hope it serves as a warning -



Karatbars operates illegally in the United Kingdom. Full Stop! UK Department of Trade & Industry’s 2005 Trading Schemes Guide states the following

In the first 7 days after you have signed the contract, the scheme can legally bill you for no more than £200 in total. This alone makes the Silver, Gold and VIP package sales illegal. The cheaper Bronze package is just an empty cardboard box, (actually all of the packages are worthless empty card board boxes) so the Bronze package fails the “value for money” rules, while the Silver, Gold and VIP boxes fail the “initial cost” rules.

You have the right to cancel your contract in the first 14 days after you have signed the contract. (Some promoters may give you a longer cancellation period.) You have the right to return to the promoter anything that the scheme has provided to you, to cancel any service to which you have subscribed and to claim a full refund, provided you have not let the goods deteriorate. Karatbars terms and conditions violate this and several UK rules. If you were not told about this beforehand you may have a claim for mis-selling or misleading/fraudulent activity, making the company liable for a full refund. Contact support@karatbars.com for refund claims, failing which, below are some next steps (UK only)

UK based Karatbars affiliates may complain in writing to The Consumer and Competition Policy Directorate, The Department of Trade and Industry, 1 Victoria Street, London SW1H 0ET or phone the Citizen’s Advice Bureau on 03444 111 444 and explain your case if you believe you were misled into the Karatbars pyramid scheme. At their discretion, your case may be passed to Trading Standards Officers for investigation. Trading Standards have the power to prosecute and bring criminal charges against the company for mis-representation and unfair trading practices. A case of mis-selling should result in full refund from the company in due course. Karatbars operate a zero refund policy. This is illegal. If you were not warned sufficiently, you may have a case of mis-selling.

In case you failed to spot the red flags, here is a summary: Karatbars were kicked out of Russia, forced to refund all Russian affiliates and pay an undisclosed regulatory fine. Karatbars are banned in China, the worlds largest gold market. Karatbars are banned in India, the worlds second largest gold market. Karatbars are unable to resolve/close the AMF sanctions in Quebec, Canada. Karatbars now have warning letters issued from the Central Bank of Aruba and the Netherlands authorities.

Want some more?

Karatbars are not a member of any direct selling association anywhere in the world. Karatbars are rejected by Bundesverband Direktvertrieb Deutschland or BDD the German Direct Selling Association. Karatbars operate a 2:1 ratio binary compensation plan. This alone makes it a pyramid scheme, regardless of what the so called affiliate leaders claim. Karatbars gold products have no resale value in the open market, unless removed from the packaging, then also, by weight and purity alone, not because of branding. Karatbars rely entirely on internal affiliate purchases and have a negligible external customer base, making it a ponzi scheme. Karatbars has added a range of cosmetic products to appear less ponzi-like, but the added products are just another distraction. The truth is that tens of millions of EURO’s are stuck in binary units inside the system and Karatbars enjoys profits most when over 90% of affiliates fail to convert units into cycle payments. The binary system is designed to act as entrapment and benefit only very few top affiliates. The free member option exists only to divert attention from the primary business which is a paid-affiliate ponzi.

Finally, AMF’s text reveals a bigger problem. Quote: In its decision, the Bureau held that Karatbars affiliates are investors, that the contracts between the affiliates and Karatbars are investment contracts and that, accordingly, they are subject to the rules the AMF is responsible for enforcing. Unquote. This statement alone puts Karatbars in Financial Regulatory territory, but the company has slipped through several regulatory nets simply for lack of public complaints. Expect several financial regulators to move heavily against this company. Get out while you can.

Today's quote for a gram of gold on the open market: $42
I'm like any regular consumer. Here's what I see when I look at "KaratBars":


Bronze Package: $135, no gold
You pay $135 to participate in the pyramid scheme

Silver Package: $310
You get 1 gram of gold worth $42
You pay $268 to participate in the pyramid scheme

Gold Package: $775
You get 2 grams of gold worth $84
You pay $691 to participate in the pyramid scheme

VIP Package: $2,120
You get 3 grams of gold worth $126
You pay $1,994 to participate in the pyramid scheme

Exclusive VIP Package: $10,200
You get 5 grams of gold worth $210
You pay $9,990 to participate in the pyramid scheme

It has been established by everyone who has looked at this pyramid scheme that KaratBars is drastically over-pricing their only retail product.
There are much cheaper and much more secure ways to acquire gold, if one wishes to do so.
The huge sums of money identified above as being the cost of joining the pyramid scheme are being used to line the pockets of the people who "got in early".

SD

.

omadawn: You are all MLM companies wet dream. You just buy anything they spout as real and the gospel truth, and parrot it back word for word.

Yes the AMF can have jurisdiction over Karatbars no matter where the company is located when any citizen of their Province "invests" in Karatbars. The same holds true for any country and the other Provinces of Canada. Karatbars is not licensed and registered to sell securities, and that is why the AMF and the Central Bank of Aruba issued their warnings. It won't be long until more regulatory agencies either issue a warning or they just go in and shut them down. Of course Karatbars will be long gone before the investigation could be completed to shut them down.

If I were you I would get all my money out as soon as possible and walk away being glad you were able to get it back. Otherwise you will be holding an empty bag and wondering what happened. It is not a question of "IF" Karatbars will collapse, the question is "WHEN?"

Lyndon Farrington, Beepxtra founder pimping this. Surely Russell Longcore, another beepxtra pimp, wouldn't be "stupid" twice after the Flexkom debacle not to mention Empower Network's sinking ship which Longcore also promoted.

Lyndon Farrington|Lyndon Farrington Karatbars International

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*

After seeing too many businesses with a myriad of challenges the introduction to Karatbars International was a very welcome relief.

It has been reported that in my business of Beepxtra we say to people that if you must get involved in Karatbars, which is not correct.

I champion people’s rights, and freedom of choice is a pillar of that philosophy.

People who know me well; know I often joke about the word must.

I say there is only one must … we are all alive today and we all must die one day……in the middle everything else is up to us.
I am the MD of Beepxtra so why do I still promote Karatbars?

What I actually promote is buying gold in one gram increments. Gold purchased by the ounce is cheaper than that purchased by the gram.

Karatbars has the cheapest and easiest to obtain gold per gram that is certified by the London Bullion Metal Association (LBMA).

*

Further to this:
•** *If you become wealthy your money is all in currency, putting all your assets into one asset class is risky. Currency is an asset class. So moving a portion of your saved income into a commodity like gold is good common sense.
•* Buying gold in small increments is good in case you want to dispose of some of it but not all.
•** *Saving is becoming a forgotten value. The whole idea of saving is based on the fact that one day we will all be too old to work and produce income. If we universally teach our children to constantly save a percentage of their income and never spend it, think how much debt will be wiped out in two or three generations.

*

In summary with 25 years of business experience Karatbars Gold stands tall as one of the most honest and transparent businesses I have ever seen.

I missed this one from May 8, British Columbia:

Originally Posted by BCSC

Karatbars is not registered in BC to trade in, or advise on, securities or exchange contracts.

We urge BC residents to exercise extreme caution when dealing with firms that are not registered to trade or advise in BC.

KB_BCSC_alert.jpg
URL: Investment Caution: Karatbars International GmbH

Originally Posted by riblets

They are only going to pay you for the gold content, not the U-Tube videos.

that's lollerz

Originally Posted by omadawn

I have a safe full of Karatbars and more to come!

One of the speakers I like listening to on trading says "your job as a trader is to find two idiots". One who sells to you too low and one who buys from you too high. If I call you an idiot, please take it in the kindest of ways. I have no worldly idea what the hell you are thinking unless you are getting your bars for free from recruiting other idiots.


Let's make this very simple, a little more apples to apples than my last example. The result is the same.

I have not posted the link from the Karatbars seller as I am not here to market for others. The casual reader will find many of the platitudes repeated on almost any site offering this "opportunity". What matters is the math. According to the seller, Karatbars gold is Private Issue bullion, 999.9% Fine Gold, each Karatbar weighs in at 1.01 grams.

From this I will infer 1 gram of 24K gold, .01 gram of some other metal. Keeping in mind 24K is the best you can get, signatures, holograms, and pinky swears matter nothing when gold hits the melting pot.

Converting...http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/con...ances/gold.php
1 Grams into Ounces Troy
Result: 0.032150746568627

FRONT MONTH FUTURE $1305
SPOT $1303.90
SPOT IN EURO 973.06

(973.06 EURO * 0.032150746568627) = 31.28EUR -- Someone should expect to pay a little more than this, but not as much as KB is gouging.

Preferred Price 1 Gram: 47.4 EUR -- This is what they are paying on the Karatbars site today.

YOU NEED A 50% RISE FROM TODAY'S SPOT JUST TO BREAK EVEN ON YOUR PURCHASE. Forget actually making money. It really is this simple.

================================================== ========

Quotes you will hear...

Karatbars has the lowest price for their gold category. Compare BMW to BMW, not Ford to BMW. Google: kinebar grade 1 gram gold -- As we have seen this means nothing. 24K=24K


What you DON'T do is find the best price for a GALLON of milk (which, for the sake of discussion, lets say is $4) and then divide $4 by 8 pints (which is 50 cents per pint), and then compare that price to buying a single pint. If you don't have enough to invest in anything at the right vloume to make the price attractive then maybe it is not the best investment. Karatbars has you paying restaurant prices for milk, they are not even at the grocery store level, much less wholesale.

If you want to be accurate and compare apples to apples, ask your broker what his/her price is for a 999.9-grade 1-gram gold bullion produced by an LBMA-certified refinery? No one can touch Karatbars price! Karatbars has consistently maintained a 2-4% better price.
Again, this means nothing, there is no 26K special MLM gold.


Gold coins that have minted and issued from any government can be recalled to issuer (the government). So what? I am more worried about a band of pirates stealing my gold than the government coming for it. If the **** really hit the fan, theft would be my number first five concerns, I would put government confiscation somewhere after FEMA camps.

Karatbars does not apply to the FTC (NOT an MLM) or the BBB (Domestic Rating Agency), all are which come under U.S. government jurisdiction, or any other jurisdiction not held under the International Bullion Laws.
Karatbars does not apply to the Securities Exchange Commission (SEC), since gold is not considered a financial instrument. (paper)
Other silly crap we might have heard before. This strikes me as not correct based on this opportunity being marketed to American Citizens and the Howey Test. But whatever, all other things being equal you are paying way too much for gold with Karatbars.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

all other things being equal you are paying way too much for gold with Karatbars.

Ok. Let´s assume that I am buying Gold at a higher price, as you so effusively have stated.

I truly don´t care...why?

There´s the hard truth:

The compensation plan is far too compensatory for me to be preoccupied with that.

So, the main commissions are for the Gold cards we buy, and also for the Gold cards (and packages with gold cards in it) the affiliates we bring to the Company buy.

I am earning paper money for my promotional work, and at the same time building a Gold reserve for the future.

Originally Posted by omadawn

Ok. Let´s assume that I am buying Gold at a higher price, as you so effusively have stated.

I truly don´t care...why?

There´s the hard truth:

The compensation plan is far too compensatory for me to be preoccupied with that.

So, the main commissions are for the Gold cards we buy, and also for the Gold cards (and packages with gold cards in it) the affiliates we bring to the Company buy.

I am earning paper money for my promotional work, and at the same time building a Gold reserve for the future.

So you don't care if you are participating in something illegal?

You don't care about asking others to join something illegal so you can profit off them?

What happens when Karatbars closes up shop, and they will, either by the scammers or the authorities. It is not legal to profit off recruitment fees FOR A REASON.

What country are you in if I may ask?

Originally Posted by omadawn

.... and at the same time building a Gold reserve for the future.

........................

Originally Posted by omadawn

Ok. Let´s assume that I am buying Gold at a higher price, as you so effusively have stated.

I truly don´t care...why?

There´s the hard truth:

The compensation plan is far too compensatory for me to be preoccupied with that.

Nail meet head.
There you have it right there Yup! Thats the truth of it.
The gold is what might be described in the movie business as the MacGuffin.
Karatbars is all about the "opportunity" being paid to recruit others. The gold is of little real consequence.

MacGuffin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MacGuffin.jpg

Originally Posted by omadawn

Ok. Let´s assume that I am buying Gold at a higher price, as you so effusively have stated.

I truly don´t care...why?

There´s the hard truth:

The compensation plan is far too compensatory for me to be preoccupied with that.

So, the main commissions are for the Gold cards we buy, and also for the Gold cards (and packages with gold cards in it) the affiliates we bring to the Company buy.

I am earning paper money for my promotional work, and at the same time building a Gold reserve for the future.

We all know that is the reason why you are in this. What was disgusting is your trying to say this is a real program providing a real product that people want and the "opportunity" was just an added benefit. Then you try to act all upset you were called out on it. Glad to see you finally had the gonads to tell the truth.

Originally Posted by omadawn

Ok. Let´s assume that I am buying Gold at a higher price, as you so effusively have stated.

I truly don´t care...why?

There´s the hard truth:

The compensation plan is far too compensatory for me to be preoccupied with that.

So, the main commissions are for the Gold cards we buy, and also for the Gold cards (and packages with gold cards in it) the affiliates we bring to the Company buy.

I am earning paper money for my promotional work, and at the same time building a Gold reserve for the future.

Given the above admission why don't you sell Heroine or Cocaine internationally instead? Or sell some and build up a big drug reserve for the future?

I have quite a few saved in a box. Bet they are worth more.

Come on folks, don't go confusing omadawn with facts because omadawn can't handle the facts.

omadawn is in the MLM dream world of riches and opulence from all that gold he is buying. So don't burst his bubble and tell him how many karabars certificates of gold he would need to have to accumulate just one troy ounce of gold. omadawn would faint or have a stroke. For some reason soiling underpants also comes to mind as to the number.

I have friends involved in this. One of my concerns was who would want to buy gold from you like this? on a card? If the companies goes bad for whatever reason it will look bad.

Some of the "Karatbars" pimps are already starting to take down their Youtube promos.
I think that the S.E.C finally charging Faith Sloan may turn out to be the most productive deterrent ever!

SD

.

Originally Posted by toos00

I have friends involved in this. One of my concerns was who would want to buy gold from you like this? on a card? If the companies goes bad for whatever reason it will look bad.

Exactly, what people bought is a piece of paper with a promise. With a bank you know the government will backup the bank if need be. Who knows with KB?

Originally Posted by kschang

Who knows with KB?

Anyone with the slightest amount of common sense or who isn't blinded by the lure of easy money and get-rich-quick schemes

Actually he may be right about the SEC not having jurisdiction, gold bullion is not considered a security by the Federal Government (but several states do consider any commodity a security because there isn't any easy place to put them otherwise under state law).
However, commodities purchases and transaction are regulated by The Commodities and Futures Trade Commission, which unlike the SEC I think can file criminal charges as well as civil actions.

Originally Posted by Gregg

Actually he may be right about the SEC not having jurisdiction, gold bullion is not considered a security by the Federal Government (but several states do consider any commodity a security because there isn't any easy place to put them otherwise under state law).
However, commodities purchases and transaction are regulated by The Commodities and Futures Trade Commission, which unlike the SEC I think can file criminal charges as well as civil actions.

It is possible with them issuing the Kartabars Card which I guess are allegedly backed by gold falls under the definition of "security". I don't see it as much different than issuing an Exchange Traded Note, Fund, or other debt instrument in that generally some government filing needs to take place before they can be offered to the public.

KaratBars Card.JPG

Either way, there is no doubt in my mind they are violating federal laws at some level. Even putting that aside, $1500 an ounce in a $1200 an once market must have the Harald Seiz laughing all the way to the bank.

Harald Seiz.jpg

Originally Posted by Gregg

Actually he may be right about the SEC not having jurisdiction, gold bullion is not considered a security by the Federal Government

I think Howey tried that argument way back when, that farm contracts are not "investments". :D

SEC may not have jurisdiction over gold trading, but it *does* have jurisdiction over investments, which is defined by the Howey test.

My understanding of it (I might be wrong) is that the cards aren't "backed by gold" but have 1 gram of gold embedded into the actual card.


Karatbars invest in Gold karatbars.com Page 2.jpg

Originally Posted by Joe_Shmoe

My understanding of it (I might be wrong) is that the cards aren't "backed by gold" but have 1 gram of gold embedded into the actual card.


Karatbars invest in Gold karatbars.com Page 2.jpg

Pretty sure you are correct Joe. I believe they have the option of "storing" their cards at Karatbars until the affiliate accumulates enough to warrant shipping costs I'm guessing?.......Not a good idea - Like asking a thief to hold your bag while you tie your shoe.