Thread: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?

Originally Posted by ribshaw

Greenwood, I don't speak for anyone other than myself, but I have listed what I feel are some very reasonable due diligence concerns I believe any investor should consider before parting with their hard earned money. It would be nice if you could address those, frankly when I see comments about disgruntled employees and less than professional competitors it seems more of a red herring than a valid comment. It may happen, but the alternative is for us not to have any public forum where people can come and gather information, in that case the people who are offering questionable deals have free reign.

My apologies I don't think I was understood completely with this comment. I am more than happy to supply this discussion with facts, personally I think that having a grown up discussion based on information is a good idea and these forums provide a good footing and a valid way to find out information. Of course sometimes these types of sites are open to abuse which was my point. But if you want to ask me anything hopefully I can be of help.

Originally Posted by Greenwood Management

My apologies I don't think I was understood completely with this comment. I am more than happy to supply this discussion with facts, personally I think that having a grown up discussion based on information is a good idea and these forums provide a good footing and a valid way to find out information. Of course sometimes these types of sites are open to abuse which was my point. But if you want to ask me anything hopefully I can be of help.

Forgive my cut and paste but am working on another pet project of mine today. These are concerns I would have with ANY INVESTMENT.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

I suggest blocking access to your site, and/or a big splash screen warning US investors that you are not licensed to do business in the US. I poked around on your site the other day and nothing jumped out. Although I may have missed it. If it is in the High Yield forums my guess is US people have money invested, and/or are promoting investments to others (IN FAIRNESS I HAVE NOT LOOKED) If you have anything to add on that front it would be helpful. For instance Uinvest is not licensed to do business in the US, but still does.

I find this a highly unusual way to market investments to the general public. Perhaps again because I am in the US, but here almost everything is solicited through brokerage houses. This gives the investor an added layer of comfort that at least the broker has done some due diligence and there are some protections from outright fraud by the broker. That is not to say that just because products are sold by a broker they are a great deal for the investor. Many of the non publicly traded funds, usually marketed as Limited Partnerships are a terrible deal for the investor. Most are saddled with high fees, commissions, are hard to value and very illiquid.

Finally, anything marketed exclusively through a boiler room or telephone sales force needs to be looked at very cautiously. If for no other reason than that means that no broker wants put their name on the product. I certainly welcome the discussion and will look forward to any responses or comments you may have.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

Forgive my cut and paste but am working on another pet project of mine today. These are concerns I would have with ANY INVESTMENT.

Of course in reply all authorized agents, lawyers, and brokers that offer the company's products are of course licensed in their individual jurisdictions accordingly. Regarding the point you raided about denying access in North America from memory I believe this was the case but this also blocked the site in Canada, we had some issues due to the fact that we have some operations in Canada and our staff had difficulty accessing the CRM system although I believe this is being rectified. In regards to these HYIP sites thanks for bringing this to my attention I think that definitely needs to be looked at.

Originally Posted by Greenwood Management

Of course in reply all authorized agents, lawyers, and brokers that offer the company's products are of course licensed in their individual jurisdictions accordingly. Regarding the point you raided about denying access in North America from memory I believe this was the case but this also blocked the site in Canada, we had some issues due to the fact that we have some operations in Canada and our staff had difficulty accessing the CRM system although I believe this is being rectified. In regards to these HYIP sites thanks for bringing this to my attention I think that definitely needs to be looked at.

Again, I am not 100% what is going on in the high yield sites, but experience is not many over are chatting for the heck of it. As for the access I had no problem getting in and poking around your site, including answering the investor Q&A. And would still be happy to see answers to any of my other questions/concerns.

Originally Posted by Greenwood Management

These are site specific studies whilst follow up reports are issued to our clients by a noticeable european university who we work alongside.

Utad didn't make any public announcement showing any results of such cooperation agreement with GWM. Maybe the results were not so good to be showed or... ??

Its funny that GWM claim to be eco-friendly and all their projects respect the Sustainability of forest areas but don't have any certification/accreditation from any reputed entity like FSC?? Without it you cannot guarante your customers that your products are really certified...

And GWM is also not authorized to offer investment opportunities in many countries (not only US) so your site should warn visitors about that.

Originally Posted by Greenwood Management

All the information can be found on our projects website here Greenwood Management - Forestry Investment | Invest in Timber | Invest in Trees

So you are giving as little info as possible. So which department and contact numbers ?

I found a project that sounds similar to yours. Only it is well predated your company
Alternative Agricultural Land-Use With Fast-Growing Trees
CITAB • Project details

Is it the one? They list all their research. So please post link.

Originally Posted by ribshaw

would still be happy to see answers to any of my other questions/concerns.

I don't think there is anything I haven't answered (could of missed something)
If you have any other questions could you list them and I will answer.

Originally Posted by Fgold

Utad didn't make any public announcement showing any results of such cooperation agreement with GWM. Maybe the results were not so good to be showed or... ??

Its funny that GWM claim to be eco-friendly and all their projects respect the Sustainability of forest areas but don't have any certification/accreditation from any reputed entity like FSC?? Without it you cannot guarante your customers that your products are really certified...

And GWM is also not authorized to offer investment opportunities in many countries (not only US) so your site should warn visitors about that.

Regarding this points we have a scholarship with the university, as such client reports are prepared in part by the university. I do have some reports (in English) which I will try to put on line for you next week.

In relation to the FSC this relates only to wood products exported outside of the country, we deal in the domestic timber markets and the FSC badge really does not show anything within these markets although this is the "stamp of approval" used by US and european timber importers. What does hold weight in Brazil is having the correct licensing which is probably more stringent than FSC requirements.

Regarding regulation we have a network of regulated individuals who market our products within the various jurisdictions which is adequate as forestry itself is unable to be regulated in its direct form. Having said this we will have a securities division Greenwood Asset Managers which is currently being licensed to sell shares in a forestry fund operated by Greenwood Management.

Originally Posted by fromthehood

So you are giving as little info as possible. So which department and contact numbers ?

I found a project that sounds similar to yours. Only it is well predated your company
Alternative Agricultural Land-Use With Fast-Growing Trees
CITAB • Project details

Is it the one? They list all their research. So please post link.

I am not trying to be vague, but equally it's the weekend and I don't have everything to hand. I will of course post further details when I'm back in the office on Monday. Regarding other forestry companies investments such as ours have been offered traditionally outside of the US for some time. I will also try to get you all the supporting documentation next week for your research.

Originally Posted by Greenwood Management

I don't think there is anything I haven't answered (could of missed something)
If you have any other questions could you list them and I will answer.

Ok.

1)You missed who is President/CEO/CFO or name of any top manager in the parent company. Advisors are not managers.

2)Link to research made on your behaves by Portuguese University. They list all of their research projects online. So which one is yours? Who to contact in which department?

3)Phone number of the parent company? Company like yours should have an office with the secretary an so on. Again advisors or sales agent do not cut it.

4)Where can we confirm that your company is authorized to sell direct investments? Anybody can register a corporation, but to register one allowed to sell investment products directly, that requires special permission. So where are the numbers/countries/links to local security exchanges and their permissions for you?

1)You missed who is President/CEO/CFO or name of any top manager in the parent company. Advisors are not managers.

I know in the US these job titles are generally more important but the director of the company is Ben Taylor, the operations director is Nuno Paris, we have accountants employed rather than a CFO which is quite standard in Europe. And the rest of the information should be in the documentation I previously supplied.


2)Link to research made on your behaves by Portuguese University. They list all of their research projects online. So which one is yours? Who to contact in which department?

I will have these details for you posted in Monday alongside other research papers.

3)Phone number of the parent company? Company like yours should have an office with the secretary an so on. Again advisors or sales agent do not cut it.
All of this information you can find on the main company website? Forestry Investment | Greenwood Management | Alternative Investment

4)Where can we confirm that your company is authorized to sell direct investments? Anybody can register a corporation, but to register one allowed to sell investment products directly, that requires special permission. So where are the numbers/countries/links to local security exchanges and their permissions for you? Again I will supply these details for you on Monday although you should be able to find this information online already? I would say though that other markets are different from the US. Generally speaking investments here in Europe can be sold by regulated entities without the product being regulated I could not comment on the way it works in the US but here forestry is similar to things such as hedge funds. Due to the direct nature of forestry and property this outside if the remit for product regulation. Of course lawyers, brokers and regulated agents can sell various products some of which are referred to as UCIS products.

Originally Posted by Greenwood Management

I am not trying to be vague, but equally it's the weekend and I don't have everything to hand. I will of course post further details when I'm back in the office on Monday. Regarding other forestry companies investments such as ours have been offered traditionally outside of the US for some time. I will also try to get you all the supporting documentation next week for your research.

Good to read all that. To be very practical, I am invested with Greenwood (since 2009) and you can contact me in private to know my details. As such, I have to tell you that ALL my recent requests for information about the units I 'own' remain unsatisfactorily answered. I can provide you with all details : contents, dates, contact person.

I do not want to make any judgement at this stage, nor to influence negatively other forum participants, but I would appreciate your involvement in my legitimate request and would be pleased to confirm to this audience the good follow-up of my query and receipt of this much-sought information.

Thank you.
Best Regards.

TazBrussels,

I just sent you a PM, if you can PM your details I will contact you tomorrow as per your request.

Originally Posted by Greenwood Management

Regarding this points we have a scholarship with the university, as such client reports are prepared in part by the university. I do have some reports (in English) which I will try to put on line for you next week.

In relation to the FSC this relates only to wood products exported outside of the country, we deal in the domestic timber markets and the FSC badge really does not show anything within these markets although this is the "stamp of approval" used by US and european timber importers. What does hold weight in Brazil is having the correct licensing which is probably more stringent than FSC requirements.

Regarding regulation we have a network of regulated individuals who market our products within the various jurisdictions which is adequate as forestry itself is unable to be regulated in its direct form. Having said this we will have a securities division Greenwood Asset Managers which is currently being licensed to sell shares in a forestry fund operated by Greenwood Management.

I know that but 2 years passed and such university didn't make any announcement about the results of such studies fully sponsored by GWM in Brazil. The reports should be showed publically otherwise what's the interest in making a private science??

Regarding FSC you're completly wrong about such type of certification. I think you should visit their brazilian website (FSC Forest Stewardship Council Brasil (FSC-BR) · Home) and realize that it also applies to brazilian domestic markets as not only US and Eu citiziens care about a responsible and sustainable forest management activities! Certification by an independent entity who makes regular audits has more weight for any world citizien who really cares about environment... And certified timber has more value and higher prices in markets than a non certified timber...

About regulations I haven't seen anything that proves that GWM is authorized to sell such type of investment opportunities. Can you show us any proves that GWm is regulated???

Originally Posted by Fgold

About regulations I haven't seen anything that proves that GWM is authorized to sell such type of investment opportunities. Can you show us any proves that GWm is regulated???

He will try to continue sell us stories that In Europe unlike in US nobody cares who top management of the company is, that sales phone number doubles for official company phone number and that there is no regulations on selling securities.

He is taking us or idiots.

Originally Posted by fromthehood

He will try to continue sell us stories that In Europe unlike in US nobody cares who top management of the company is, that sales phone number doubles for official company phone number and that there is no regulations on selling securities.

He is taking us or idiots.

To shed some light on your concerns the company's main phone number shown on the main website as "main number" you can find this here Greenwood Management | Contact Greenwood | Greenwood-mangement.com

Regarding forestry, property etc this is not viewed as a security unless shares are sold in a fund, I have included a third party link (in English) which should show you an example in relation to these types of products here> : http://www.claracapital.co.uk/blog/e...gulated_funds_

Originally Posted by Fgold

I know that but 2 years passed and such university didn't make any announcement about the results of such studies fully sponsored by GWM in Brazil. The reports should be showed publically otherwise what's the interest in making a private science??

In regards to your point stating that UTAD have not made any announcements in relation to GWM there are several announcements you can find on the internet (of course these are in Portuguese) you can find one such announcement at the link below (on page 6) >: http://www.utad.pt/vPT/Area2/OutrasU...m_nov_2011.pdf .

As this is in Portuguese I have used Google translate it states "On September 8, UTAD took place at the meeting with representatives of Greenwood Management, ApS (GWM) and the Forestry Department UTAD. The meeting addressed by Prof. Antonio silva, served for the presentation of the project by that institution, which consists in the exchange of students of 1st and 2nd cycle in internships in Brazil, aimed at undergraduate students in the Forest. This project will improve the professional skills of the students in Forestry and knowledge transfer to GWM. The Parties shall exchange scientific knowledge and experience, as well as joint development of the pla-school. The selection of the four best students is the responsibility of both institutions and allows the realization of a project / internship with a duration of 6 months (3 months in Brazil doing field work and three months in Portugal process data and elaboration of final report). The student needs to tar presented a final report, according to the needs of GWM and following the general rules of a project by UTAD. In this sense, has signed a cooperation agreement which stipulates the basis of this collaboration.

I have some very good contacts in the brokerage business, and I contacted 3 of them this afternoon. While this in itself is not a total condemnation, even by their own words, none of them have ever heard of you. Please understand that their expertise goes beyond company stocks. They also have a fairly good hand on the bond and general lending market too.
I would also like to see your VAT registration, and so would they?

Regards,
Dr. Bob

Originally Posted by Fgold

Regarding FSC you're completly wrong about such type of certification. I think you should visit their brazilian website (FSC Forest Stewardship Council Brasil (FSC-BR) · Home) and realize that it also applies to brazilian domestic markets as not only US and Eu citiziens care about a responsible and sustainable forest management activities! Certification by an independent entity who makes regular audits has more weight for any world citizien who really cares about environment... And certified timber has more value and higher prices in markets than a non certified timber...

In regards to this point FSC is a "green brand seal" which is specifically required when exporting logs to Europe and North America as this is generally requested by furniture manufactures in Europe and North America for market branding. However FSC certification.

I have included a link here: WWF Brasil - O que é certificação florestal? (In Portuguese from Brazil) which states (you can use Google translate) "How can we evaluate the evolution of Brazil regarding the certification process? Brazil is now the country with the largest area of forests and the largest number of FSC certified products. More than 3 million hectares of certified forests from the Amazon to the Rio Grande do Sul and about 170 certifications chain of custody. Most products with FSC today are intended for export to European countries and North America..
Unfortunately FSC "green stamping" just increases the project costs and is not in demand within the domestic market, Brazil has a strict certification process for "reforestation projects" such as ours and licencing alone can take up to 12 months, in addition to this their other stringent requirements that have to be met regarding chemical storage, water licencing, and registering, clothing and housing staff which are put in place to make sure ethical commitments are met from forest producers. These (quite new) licencing processes are seen in Brazil as more than adequate, whilst without these licences end users and forest producers can be fined for involvement. New laws enacted over the past few years have also led to the harvesting and selling of "native" timber as can be read here > Sustainable Development - Responsibilities and Commitments of Everyone .

Originally Posted by Dr. Bob

I have some very good contacts in the brokerage business, and I contacted 3 of them this afternoon. While this in itself is not a total condemnation, even by their own words, none of them have ever heard of you. Please understand that their expertise goes beyond company stocks. They also have a fairly good hand on the bond and general lending market too.
I would also like to see your VAT registration, and so would they?

Regards,
Dr. Bob

Hi Dr.Bob in regards to this please see my previous posts, we do not deal in America in regards to the VAT number this is the same as the company registration number (Danish CVR) number previously supplied (31 62 93 73).

Originally Posted by fromthehood

He will try to continue sell us stories that In Europe unlike in US nobody cares who top management of the company is, that sales phone number doubles for official company phone number and that there is no regulations on selling securities.

He is taking us or idiots.

In European countries both in and out of the European Common Market, there are some very stringent regulations for licensing businesses, especially the sale of investments. People in Europe are very much aware of the need for transparency in business and the lack of corporate information, as are their authorities and in many instances have taken action over dubious investment schemes even before the US. We are probably even more concerned than American about WHO owns and runs the businesses we invest in.

The sale of investments to the public in any company, including forestry and property company have to be licensed and registered by all the relevant authorities in the countries in which they offer those investments for sale. By sale to the public, this does not refer to public listed companies, but to investments offered to strangers on the internet, like those offered by Greenwood.

It would be a lot more credible if you could post the verification of all those relevant licences instead of providing links to promotional material.

Originally Posted by Greenwood Management

In regards to your point stating that UTAD have not made any announcements in relation to GWM there are several announcements you can find on the internet (of course these are in Portuguese) you can find one such announcement at the link below (on page 6) >: http://www.utad.pt/vPT/Area2/OutrasU...m_nov_2011.pdf .

As this is in Portuguese I have used Google translate it states "On September 8, UTAD took place at the meeting with representatives of Greenwood Management, ApS (GWM) and the Forestry Department UTAD. The meeting addressed by Prof. Antonio silva, served for the presentation of the project by that institution, which consists in the exchange of students of 1st and 2nd cycle in internships in Brazil, aimed at undergraduate students in the Forest. This project will improve the professional skills of the students in Forestry and knowledge transfer to GWM. The Parties shall exchange scientific knowledge and experience, as well as joint development of the pla-school. The selection of the four best students is the responsibility of both institutions and allows the realization of a project / internship with a duration of 6 months (3 months in Brazil doing field work and three months in Portugal process data and elaboration of final report). The student needs to tar presented a final report, according to the needs of GWM and following the general rules of a project by UTAD. In this sense, has signed a cooperation agreement which stipulates the basis of this collaboration.

I?ve already seen that. That's why I asked if almost 2 years after such announcement there's any relevant scientific reports or such program didn't bring anything good enough to be showed in the next utad's newsletters??

Originally Posted by Greenwood Management

In regards to this point FSC is a "green brand seal" which is specifically required when exporting logs to Europe and North America as this is generally requested by furniture manufactures in Europe and North America for market branding. However FSC certification.

I have included a link here: WWF Brasil - O que é certificação florestal? (In Portuguese from Brazil) which states (you can use Google translate) "How can we evaluate the evolution of Brazil regarding the certification process? Brazil is now the country with the largest area of forests and the largest number of FSC certified products. More than 3 million hectares of certified forests from the Amazon to the Rio Grande do Sul and about 170 certifications chain of custody. Most products with FSC today are intended for export to European countries and North America..
Unfortunately FSC "green stamping" just increases the project costs and is not in demand within the domestic market, Brazil has a strict certification process for "reforestation projects" such as ours and licencing alone can take up to 12 months, in addition to this their other stringent requirements that have to be met regarding chemical storage, water licencing, and registering, clothing and housing staff which are put in place to make sure ethical commitments are met from forest producers. These (quite new) licencing processes are seen in Brazil as more than adequate, whilst without these licences end users and forest producers can be fined for involvement. New laws enacted over the past few years have also led to the harvesting and selling of "native" timber as can be read here > Sustainable Development - Responsibilities and Commitments of Everyone .

In my view FSC is always a must for any responsible and sustainable forestry company and all people who really cares about making a green world. Most of green people including green consumers worldwide prefer FSC certified and pls don't tell that only US and EU cares about green certifications...

Its pathetic that the link you showed about your most adequated licencing processes support eucalyptus plantations in Brazil to ensure the preservation of the native vegetation. That's BIG LOL ! Eucalyptus is native in Australia but NOT in Brazil as its a very serious threat for brazilian native species and its just used for economic interests of a restricted group of people supported by brazilian feds...

Originally Posted by Greenwood Management

Hi Dr.Bob in regards to this please see my previous posts, we do not deal in America in regards to the VAT number this is the same as the company registration number (Danish CVR) number previously supplied (31 62 93 73).

VAT is the Value Added Tax or Sales Tax which companies have to be registered for in order to offer goods and services for sale. Registering a company is not the same as being licensed to sell securities in denmark or anywhere else. If Greenwood is going to sell investments it will have to be registered in every country it sells in - whether through the internet or not. Links to the specific licenses PLEASE

Originally Posted by Fgold

In my view FSC is always a must for any responsible and sustainable forestry company and all people who really cares about making a green world. Most of green people including green consumers worldwide prefer FSC certified and pls don't tell that only US and EU cares about green certifications...

Its pathetic that the link you showed about your most adequated licencing processes support eucalyptus plantations in Brazil to ensure the preservation of the native vegetation. That's BIG LOL ! Eucalyptus is native in Australia but NOT in Brazil as its a very serious threat for brazilian native species and its just used for economic interests of a restricted group of people supported by brazilian feds...

This is your view and I do not want to convince you otherwise however the FSC is one (and probably the best known) of many "green certificates" but it does not mean that all timber produced under the guidelines of the FSC is done so in the right way. Their have been numerous claims surrounding certifications on unethical companies it does mean though that these companies can sell their timber without any problem in the US or Europe but really this certification is not a completely accurate measure of a company, its ethical stance or if it is producing timber products in the correct way.

FSC watch is an organization that is set up to monitor the activities of the FSC and has reported many issues whereby timber products that should not be approved under its guidelines have been. You can read more here FSC-WATCH.

Of course having some standards met is a good thing and most of the FSC certified timber is grown sustainability. However the fact is that FSC certification for wood produced for energy in Brazil is not a concern for the wood users who buy our timber. It is not the case that we go to see wood users to sell our timber and they request that it has FSC certification. They do not say we will pay you a better price for FSC certified wood. It is of course a concern for them if they receive a fine because our projects have not been certified as a sustainable reforestation project because if they purchase wood or native timber from a project that has not been certified they will be fined, this is the way it is in Brazil!