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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
baylee
From what I am reading it appears that you are selling investments/securities which would require licensing with appropriate agency's.
Of course he's selling unlicensed securities. All this BS about trees etc is exactly that, BS! Claiming that his client are actually buying timber is ludicrous because the client is not taking delivery, thus the client is an investor. Hey, Baylee, you thought Dr. Boob was a tap dancer, how about this clown?
It seems like in this "industry" common sense is not all that common!
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
Greenwood Management
Forestry property is still property which is my point. Many people purchase forestry to receive a ROI but so also do people who purchase residential property. The fact we plant trees on this property is the only difference.
@ GWM You are not selling properties in your website! You're offering investment opportunities which must have a proper regulation.
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
1.
Originally Posted by
Greenwood Management
Greenwood asset managers is registered as a financial services company if this helps explain!
Ah good. We are getting there. So please could you provide verified answers to the earlier question
And the licences to sell securities in the countries whose citizens you sell them to live??
.
For a start it is NOT registered with the FSA to sell in the UK
2. Selling wood is one thing. You get wood and invoices. Investing in a wood company as a shareholder in that company is another. You get share certificates and receipts for payment from the company. and hopefully a return on your investment at the end of the year. What do you get from Greenwood in terms of hard information and paperwork to justify the return you are receiving?
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
Lil Ol' Radical Me
1.
Ah good. We are getting there. So please could you provide verified answers to the earlier question
.
For a start it is NOT registered with the FSA to sell in the UK
2. Selling wood is one thing. You get wood and invoices. Investing in a wood company as a shareholder in that company is another. You get share certificates and receipts for payment from the company. and hopefully a return on your investment at the end of the year. What do you get from Greenwood in terms of hard information and paperwork to justify the return you are receiving?
To answer your question the company does not deal in the UK or the USA, in regards to clients they are not investing into shares and so they do not receive a share certificate they are purchasing forestry property from us.
In regards to justification of projected returns: Forestry growth and yield rates are very well known alongside market prices for timber. All our profit projections are produced independently to avoid conflict of interest so this includes our yield projections (timber volume expected) alongside current market prices reported by a qualified individual who has contacts with most of the end users. Our company sells this forestry directly to clients.
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Quote Originally Posted by Lil Ol' Radical Me View Post
1.
Ah good. We are getting there. So please could you provide verified answers to the earlier question
.
For a start it is NOT registered with the FSA to sell in the UK
2. Selling wood is one thing. You get wood and invoices. Investing in a wood company as a shareholder in that company is another. You get share certificates and receipts for payment from the company. and hopefully a return on your investment at the end of the year.
What do you get from Greenwood in terms of hard information and paperwork to justify the return you are receiving?
Originally Posted by
Greenwood Management
To answer your question the company does not deal in the UK or the USA, in regards to clients they are not investing into shares and so they do not receive a share certificate they are purchasing forestry property from us.
In regards to justification of projected returns: Forestry growth and yield rates are very well known alongside market prices for timber. All our profit projections are produced independently to avoid conflict of interest so this includes our yield projections (timber volume expected) alongside current market prices reported by a qualified individual who has contacts with most of the end users. Our company sells this forestry directly to clients.
Could you please answer the question above AND the question as to WHERE Greenwood is registered to sell investments? Which countries?? So far all you have told us is that you NEVER sell to US or UK citizens, so who do you sell to and WHAT are you selling - because it is not wood (large forestry trees cut down) nor is it an interest in the forest itself as there are no shares given out, so it is not investments in the companies) You have said it is Securities and those are shares. if you speculate on the Stock Exchange, there are share certificates involved, whatever the rate of return.
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
laidback
Of course he's selling unlicensed securities. All this BS about trees etc is exactly that, BS! Claiming that his client are actually buying timber is ludicrous because the client is not taking delivery, thus the client is an investor. Hey, Baylee, you thought Dr. Boob was a tap dancer, how about this clown?
There sure are a whole lot of tap dancers around.
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Hi,
I found some info on Greenwood Marketing or Management who were in the Republic of Ireland 2009.
They were trying to sell forestry investment and claiming to be partners with the Irish Forestry ,NOT true.
Any cold call internet operation is very suspect .Listening to the tap dancing has just heightened my suspicions.
The website is closed and none exist .
What countries are your bank accounts in ?
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
What countries do you conduct business in? I am located in Australia and have had a look at your website. Is it open to Australian investors, or do you only operate in Europe?
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
cottonwallaby
What countries do you conduct business in? I am located in Australia and have had a look at your website. Is it open to Australian investors, or do you only operate in Europe?
If they sell investments in England they are breaking the law as they are not registered with the FSA to do so.
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
cottonwallaby
What countries do you conduct business in? I am located in Australia and have had a look at your website. Is it open to Australian investors, or do you only operate in Europe?
Can I ask a question, have you read this thread?
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
I would advise all of those even mildly interest in this 'opportunity' to avoid like the plague. The whole 'scheme' sounds suspiciously like Prime Forestry Group, who set up essentially the same model about 10 years ago, except they were into teak in Panama.
They had a sales office in Dublin of all places, and convinced a lot of people to part with cash for a "tree ownership cert". You can google them, the Swiss liquidated the company a while back, they had convinced a lot of people in Forestry and the environmental area that they were legit, and used these same folks to hoodwink investors.
Lots of talk about trees, the environment, forestry etc but very little real details about licencing, ownership, regulation, FSA or EU investment rules, company structure, risk, etc etc.
If you want to invest in forestry there are several publicly traded firms that are fully regulated. Forestry is not a high margin business. Its slow, steady returns - pensions funds are big investors (in real companies) but these types of 'schemes' above are both long term and high risk. You'd be be better off playing the lottery, IMHO.
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
Paddy21
I would advise all of those even mildly interest in this 'opportunity' to avoid like the plague. The whole 'scheme' sounds suspiciously like Prime Forestry Group, who set up essentially the same model about 10 years ago, except they were into teak in Panama.
They had a sales office in Dublin of all places, and convinced a lot of people to part with cash for a "tree ownership cert". You can google them, the Swiss liquidated the company a while back, they had convinced a lot of people in Forestry and the environmental area that they were legit, and used these same folks to hoodwink investors.
Lots of talk about trees, the environment, forestry etc but very little real details about licencing, ownership, regulation, FSA or EU investment rules, company structure, risk, etc etc.
If you want to invest in forestry there are several publicly traded firms that are fully regulated. Forestry is not a high margin business. Its slow, steady returns - pensions funds are big investors (in real companies) but these types of 'schemes' above are both long term and high risk. You'd be be better off playing the lottery, IMHO.
Welcome to the site Paddy21. Your post was worth repeating in full. Even if this was legitimate, something I am not convinced of my impression is there are a lot easier, cheaper, or more enjoyable ways to invest in forestry.
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The FSC, Panamanian teak plantations, and the mafiaTags: Panama, Legality, Rainforest Alliance SmartWood
SmartWood's certificate for plantation outfit Prime Forestry Panama was suspended in May 2006, but SmartWood noted at the time that:
"From February 2003 to September 2005, SmartWood carried out 5 on-site audits of Prime Forestry Panama (August 2003, April and September 2004, March and Sept 2005). Through these audits PFP provided evidence that nonconformances were being addressed and demonstrated ongoing compliance with SmartWood and FSC certification requirements."
However, far from being a sustainable forestry operation worthy of an FSC certifcate, it later transpires (see article below from Noriegaville) that the company is a front for a financial scam which has been banned from trading in some of the world's major financial centres.
Switzerland Puts Sale of Panamanian Teak Trees on Hold
23 04, by Okke Ornstein
PANAMA CITY/ZÜRICH - The Swiss banking regulators have placed Prime Forestry, a global teak plantation investment scheme operating from Zürich with plantations in Panama, under judicial supervision and started an investigation into its activities. The company, which has raked in about $60 million from investors over the years, can not move funds, has had to stop all sales activities and can not move other assets. The CEO has been forced to resign after previous securities frauds and ties with the Mafia had been exposed.
The Swiss financial authorities are the last ones to act in a long line of financial regulators - Italy, the United Kingdom, France, Norway, New Zealand and Australia, among others - which have warned the public against Prime Forestry or simply outlawed its activities.
Last February, the fraud squad of the Bermuda police warned citizens against Prime Forestry, calling them a "scam".
The Prime Forestry holding is headquartered in Switzerland where two floors of the Zürich Wirz-Tower are dedicated to aggressive boiler room style telesales of Panamanian teak trees. Prospects are sent glossy brochures and directed to the company's sleek website. The company has a Panamanian wholly owned subsidiary, Prime Forestry S.A.
Investors Buy Hot Air
Investors who part with their money after having been approached by the salesmen of Prime Forestry buy little more than a vague promise.
They do not buy land, but the right to grow trees on land in Panama.
This is a vague construction that no serious reforestation investor should ever consider and is normally not recommended by investment advisors or banks. Even so, Prime Forestry charges its clients far more - up to almost twice as much - per hectare than companies giving actual land ownership to investors.
The projections on returns offered by the teak sellers are in itself enough reason to call the company a scam. For the first returns after 7 years they count for example with a growth per hectare of 15m3.
This is outrageously optimistic and will most certainly not be met.
But they continue with selling these cubic meters against prices that are only paid for first grade teak of at least 10 years old. And what really does it is that to make the promised returns, they'd have to sell ALL teak trees on the plantation after 7 years. Which of course leaves no trees behind to guarantee similar fantastic returns in subsequent years. And this was only the pessimistic scenario!
Who are the Prime Foresters? The Mafia Connection
So who are the people behind Prime Forestry? The board of directors of the parent company in Switzerland is no less interesting than the activities in Panama. President is one Kurt Emil Meier, who in the eighties operated a penny stock scam in Europe called "Chartwell Securities." According to Swiss financial magazine CASH and This is Money in the UK, Cartwell was a boiler room telesales scam that pumped dubious penny stock.
Writes financial journalist Tony Hetherington (This is Money), who investigated Chartwell Securities at length:
"A highly organised network of 'boiler rooms' in England, France, Spain, Germany, Switzerland and elsewhere used glossy brochures and high pressure phone calls to market shares in companies that existed only on paper.
At the head of the scam was Tommy Quinn, a disbarred Brooklyn lawyer and an associate of the Genovese Mafia family. And his right-hand man? You guessed - Kurt E. Meier.
To this day, nobody knows how much they made, but over about five years, investors lost about £1.1bn. Part of Quinn's network was a corrupt broking firm in Zurich called Chartwell Securities, which had links to the shady side of the City of London.
With 150 silver-tongued salesmen hitting the phones, Chartwell raked in £16.5m from 8,000 victims. And Meier was Chartwell's president."
Quinn was eventually arrested in France, while Meier managed to get the case buried in the Swiss canton of Zug after having spent some time in prison himself as well. He then dabbled in gold, videotext and internet dating before discovering the possibilities of growing teak in a banana republic. Other principals of the Chartwell scam were recycled into the teak scheme as well.
Publications by CASH in Switzerland about Meier's murky past eventually triggered the Swiss investigations and Meier's resignation.
Outlawed everywhere, but endorsed by Panama's government
While financial regulators all over the world have acted against Prime Forestry and denounced it as a "scam," the Panamanian government is deeply involved with the multi-million dollar teak scheme.
First of all, according to the Public Registry, on the board of directors of the Panamanian subsidiary sits none less than Panama's Minister of Agriculture, Guillermo Salazar - a flagrant conflict of interest that would already be serious even if Prime Forestry would be totally above board. Salazar has not answered questions about his involvement with the outlawed teak hustlers put before him by us.
Then, prominently featured on Prime Forestry's website and promotional material are Panama's President Martin Torrijos and his wife Vivian, who visited the operations of Prime Forestry together with aforementioned Guillermo Salazar and the Minister for Public Buildings, Mr. Carlos Vallarino. The visit took place on February 4th of this year, long after financial regulators worldwide had issued fraud warnings or outlawed Prime Forestry's activities. But that does not seem to have bothered Torrijos nor his wife, as the Prime Forestry website reports: "In particular, the President's wife praised the 40% share of women working for Prime Forestry and the creation of jobs in plantation development and maintenance for Panama's indigenous population." There is no mention of investors who may have lost over $60 million altogether.
Ironically, the Panamanian government only recently warned foreign investors about dubious investment companies and real estate sales. New legislation about land ownership was promoted stating that earlier teak swindles like that of infamous San Cristobal should be prevented in the future.
Foreign investors, particularly those who are developing Panama's tourism industry, are increasingly worried about the government not acting against frauds and even legitimizing dodgy investment schemes. Earlier this year, President Torrijos practically endorsed the activities of Petaquilla Mining, a highly questionable mining outfit - if not simply a pump-and-dump stock scheme - which is headed by a former governor of Coclé who is being prosecuted for stealing public funds. "It is not very reassuring or comforting when you invest substantial amounts of money in Panama to see the President himself in bed with shadowy figures," said one entrepreneur on condition of anonymity.
We asked the American Chamber of Commerce for a comment on this very issue, but have not received a reply.
FSC-Watch: The FSC, Panamanian teak plantations, and the mafia
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
This company Greenwood management is definitely a scam, I was stupid enough to buy one lot from them, even more stupid that it was me who found their website on the net and I contacted them, a few months ago they sent me an email saying that they have an investor who bought some lots and wants to sell lots at a very interesting price, plus many times they proposed me things but I always said no, a few days ago I wrote them saying I wanted to sell my lot because I have problems and need money, since then no reply, whereas normally they reply instantly, so whatever they say this is definitely a scam, that people need to be warned about, it's absolutely obvious, there is no doubt….
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
I also buy some lots from them in 2011 and 2012. Everything was ok until this year. They did not send me invoice for management fees for my lots. I was thinking that i have to calculate by myself how much i will have to pay. But they appologize to me and said that they will send me immediately invoices for my management fees. Then i asked them when will they harvest my first lot. When i buy my first lot they said that it will be harvested and payed out by the end of 2014. But they calculated that they will harvest my plantation in 2018. !!??!?!? This guys can't calculate when they will harvest trees which grow 7 years. I asked him when was my plantation planted so i can calculate myself when the harvest and payment will be. I am still waiting for that answer for 2 months. I also asked him if i can sell some of mine plantation they said that this is not possible. But when I bought my first plantation I was told that it was preowned by some other client from GWM. I guess I am not good enaugh client that I can sell my plantation as other premium clients. The only thing I can do is to be quiet and pay my management fees. I was in contact with Joe Randall from Greenwood Management. I think that was Joe from GWM that also write some explaining post about their business. Likely that he will do that again and enlighten us all about their tree science.
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
ndani
I also buy some lots from them in 2011 and 2012. Everything was ok until this year. They did not send me invoice for management fees for my lots. I was thinking that i have to calculate by myself how much i will have to pay. But they appologize to me and said that they will send me immediately invoices for my management fees. Then i asked them when will they harvest my first lot. When i buy my first lot they said that it will be harvested and payed out by the end of 2014. But they calculated that they will harvest my plantation in 2018. !!??!?!? This guys can't calculate when they will harvest trees which grow 7 years. I asked him when was my plantation planted so i can calculate myself when the harvest and payment will be. I am still waiting for that answer for 2 months. I also asked him if i can sell some of mine plantation they said that this is not possible. But when I bought my first plantation I was told that it was preowned by some other client from GWM. I guess I am not good enaugh client that I can sell my plantation as other premium clients. The only thing I can do is to be quiet and pay my management fees. I was in contact with Joe Randall from Greenwood Management. I think that was Joe from GWM that also write some explaining post about their business. Likely that he will do that again and enlighten us all about their tree science.
C.Smullen c.smullen@gwmtv.com
Senior Investment Consultant
Tel 00 34 971 221 156
This guy is famous for investment scams not even a ponzi just sets up companies then liquidates.
Google this guy if you want to see what senior consultant give as references. a serial con man.
Through searching for this guy who conned me I became aware he was involved with GWM normally he sets the companys up but I guess here he is just working for commission on anyone he cons to invest here.
Would any reputable company employ him?
Watch out for him Christopher Smullens or his henchmen /partners Sean Keating - Howard Jones
Worldwide Sports Investments - Chris Smullen - The Westwood 100 Club
GWM has got to be a scam sorry guys i see all the normal triggers.
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
lapince
This company Greenwood management is definitely a scam, I was stupid enough to buy one lot from them, even more stupid that it was me who found their website on the net and I contacted them, a few months ago they sent me an email saying that they have an investor who bought some lots and wants to sell lots at a very interesting price, plus many times they proposed me things but I always said no, a few days ago I wrote them saying I wanted to sell my lot because I have problems and need money, since then no reply, whereas normally they reply instantly, so whatever they say this is definitely a scam, that people need to be warned about, it's absolutely obvious, there is no doubt….
Also i have buyed one lot, when the time of harvest was soon they tell me date more far then established, so i decide to sell and comunicate to my account manager.
From that i have had no notice and no more request of fees.
I think a good idea to make something. For example in first time to excange between us the names and address of seller account managers for making an information databases.
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
red535
Also i have buyed one lot, when the time of harvest was soon they tell me date more far then established, so i decide to sell and comunicate to my account manager.
From that i have had no notice and no more request of fees.
I think a good idea to make something. For example in first time to excange between us the names and address of seller account managers for making an information databases.
Hey,
I have also bought a lot 2 years ago..... now i see how idiot i was. Is there any legal action we could possibly do? Anything? Or we should just say our hard earn money goodbye? :(
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
neomorf
Hey,
I have also bought a lot 2 years ago..... now i see how idiot i was. Is there any legal action we could possibly do? Anything? Or we should just say our hard earn money goodbye? :(
You should file a report with your local law enforcement and countries securities regulators. If it is enough money you may want to consult with an attorney who specializes in securities fraud.
As for recovery of funds that is always up in the air as a lot of these scumbags spend it as fast as it comes in, but if you never try you never know.
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
I think that many people have been scammed, so if we all join we can do something succesful.
First time i repeat is necessary to find real names and real addrss of accounts manager.
I am searching my account and i think to be near to find him.
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
red535
I think that many people have been scammed, so if we all join we can do something succesful.
First time i repeat is necessary to find real names and real addrss of accounts manager.
I am searching my account and i think to be near to find him.
Yeah we can join and hire an attorney if we are able to find enough people i guess. What country are you from?
My first account manager was Jack Burford, and the current one is Patrick Faherty. Also how much did u invest if you don't mind me asking? I guess there are a lot of people out there, it is just hard to find them I believe... :/
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
neomorf
Yeah we can join and hire an attorney if we are able to find enough people i guess. What country are you from?
My first account manager was Jack Burford, and the current one is Patrick Faherty. Also how much did u invest if you don't mind me asking? I guess there are a lot of people out there, it is just hard to find them I believe... :/
Guys may I ask why you concluded that you have been scammed? I've invested with them a few months ago and was looking into investing again when I come across this forum. Has anyone reached harvest-time and not been given the promised returns?
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Re: Is Greenwood Management Aps legit or scam?
Originally Posted by
globetrotter27
Guys may I ask why you concluded that you have been scammed? I've invested with them a few months ago and was looking into investing again when I come across this forum. Has anyone reached harvest-time and not been given the promised returns?
LOL, did you READ this forum? If so what makes you think there will be any "harvest-time" beyond what has already been harvested from your wallet?
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