Thread: FlexKom aka Flexcom aka Weeconomy - legitimate MLM or scam ??

To all of you who are "burning" your friends by promoting illegal Pyramid schemes. Hey Watsco, UGA1 and FlexKom - Wikipedia just read YOUR opportunity meeting script. See below. Sound familiar?

Pyramid scheme
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pyramid scheme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The unsustainable exponential progression of a classic pyramid scheme
A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public.[1][2]

A successful pyramid scheme combines a fake yet seemingly credible business with a simple-to-understand yet sophisticated-sounding money-making formula which is used for profit. The essential idea is that a "con artist" Mr. X, makes only one payment. To start earning, Mr. X has to recruit others like him who will also make one payment each. Mr. X gets paid out of receipts from those new recruits. They then go on to recruit others. As each new recruit makes a payment, Mr. X gets a cut. He is thus promised exponential benefits as the "business" expands.
Such "businesses" seldom involve sales of real products or services to which a monetary value might be easily attached. However, sometimes the "payment" itself may be a non-cash valuable. To enhance credibility, most such scams are well equipped with fake referrals, testimonials, and information.
The flaw is that there is no end benefit. The money simply travels up the chain. Only the originator (sometimes called the "pharaoh") and a very few at the top levels of the pyramid make significant amounts of money. The amounts dwindle steeply down the pyramid slopes. Individuals at the bottom of the pyramid (those who subscribed to the plan, but were not able to recruit any followers themselves) end up with a deficit.

Watsco - let me try and make this simple for you (seriously).

You said, "So the system was proven in Turkey. Turkey had issues but is doing great. I know you guys have problem with Turkey but that doesn't change the fact that the math worked."

Can you provide any 3rd party verification of that statement? By the way, "I know a lady who has already earned $100,000 in this deal and she told me so" DOESN'T cut it.

Baby steps, Watsco....baby steps.

My last attempt to get Watsco to answer even the most obvious questions about Flexkom. The question is at the end of the post. I would appreciate an answer.

This is a copy of a post on dated 12-29-2012 Post #9
Here's a translation from the German site (flexkom.com)

Who is FlexKom

The FlexKom Group

Initial development of August 2010
Currently has 53 permanent employees
own programming team
Experienced international management team
Currently, 43,000 franchisees and about 2 million loyalty cards (In the test, Turkey)
FlexKom Europe GmbH, Stuttgart / Holzgerlingen
FlexKom International AG Turkey: Istanbul FlexKom
Currently, Phase 1 construction in Europe D / CH / A / NL / BE / F / UK
Start the whole of Europe in 2013

Watsco - The main Flexkom website showed (translation shown above) 43,000 franchisees and 2 million customers back in Dec 2012. How much ACTUAL SHOPPING has taken place since then?

I will borrow the "Pharaon" name from that wikipedia article to refer to admins and operators of the pyramids in the future :)

They prefer Emperor. (see Smith, Chris of BB)

watsco will never answer any of our questions because he can't. He doesn't want to check or find things out because he is afraid if he does he will realize he has been taken. He has not only drunk the Kool Aid, he has bought all the bait lies of Flexkom hook, line and sinker. All we are ever going to get from watsco is the same ole Flexkom sales pitch and PR pieces.

It is always look over here and not pay attention to what the naysayers are saying because they are: jealous, don't understand the program, afraid to take risks, are biased against MLM companies, not interested in the truth, won't admit they are wrong, distort facts to suit their agenda, put people down to keep from losing face, bully people into their way of thinking, and the list goes on and on. Been there and heard it all before from every Ponzi going. Page 1 of the Ponzi playbook: When you can't answer the questions, attack the person or change the subject to something else to get the attention off their comments.

Instead of wasting time asking watsco to answer questions he won't and can't, just continue to post the facts so those still not decided will be able to reach their own conclusion outside of all the hype and promises of big money. The mere fact that watsco does not know most of what is being exposed here speaks louder to outsiders than anything we can say in trying to get watsco to answer anything. He is doing more to prove Flexkom is a Ponzi to those reading here than any answers he would give to all the questions.

I think if I were him I would be asking myself why I am the only one here still defending Flexkom or at least trying to defend them.

Looks like your POS 4S system just got debunked. Expensive Piece Of **** to rip people off some more.

Originally Posted by watsco

No Checks

We have a Visa card we transfer the money on there or direct to our Bank account. Yes we get paid every week without fail.

And there you have it straight from the horses' mouth.

"We get paid every week for nothing but recruiting people"

No need for any more information really.

The get-rich-quick and HYIP ponzi crowd will join in numbers and smart people will stay right away.

I really don't have a problem with the price point of the POS unit. If a local merchant is willing to pay the price, let the market decide on whether they are getting $500 in value or not.
I am interested in knowing how much the sales agent receives when they sell the unit (which appears to have $300 to $400 extra) to the local merchant?

Of course, it really doesn't matter since the Flexkom Model is flawed as well. I really don't see massive scale of a system that requires the merchant to Double Pay for the discount (as we have
discussed many times on this thread).

Thanks freighttrain for the information. The price point of the unit seems to be in keeping with the Flexkom model of over charging and over promising and then under delivering. By the way, this is not
some off-the-wall comment as we have documented this practice by Flexkom over the past 3-4 years well.

Just curious: We know from research that most men don't want to carry another card in their wallets in order to receive a discount. What happens if the internet service is poor in the area? And, what happens if a customer's smart phone dies? How about the 45% of all mobile phone customers that DO NOT OWN smartphones. Will this system work for them or do they have to carry the card too?

Will the management team (which consists of a group of failed MLM'ers - see prior posts) ever figure out how to actually run the company?

Is Flexkom and/or their Top Promoters (who are probably getting paid from the sale of these units) telling people they have to buy the POS with the inflated price in order for the system to work, as mentioned in this video? If so, since the presenter shows that is not the case, do the company/promoters need to post a retraction?

So many questions, so few distributors willing or able to answer them.

Originally Posted by EagleOne

watsco will never answer any of our questions because he can't. He doesn't want to check or find things out because he is afraid if he does he will realize he has been taken. He has not only drunk the Kool Aid, he has bought all the bait lies of Flexkom hook, line and sinker. All we are ever going to get from watsco is the same ole Flexkom sales pitch and PR pieces.

It is always look over here and not pay attention to what the naysayers are saying because they are: jealous, don't understand the program, afraid to take risks, are biased against MLM companies, not interested in the truth, won't admit they are wrong, distort facts to suit their agenda, put people down to keep from losing face, bully people into their way of thinking, and the list goes on and on. Been there and heard it all before from every Ponzi going. Page 1 of the Ponzi playbook: When you can't answer the questions, attack the person or change the subject to something else to get the attention off their comments.

Instead of wasting time asking watsco to answer questions he won't and can't, just continue to post the facts so those still not decided will be able to reach their own conclusion outside of all the hype and promises of big money. The mere fact that watsco does not know most of what is being exposed here speaks louder to outsiders than anything we can say in trying to get watsco to answer anything. He is doing more to prove Flexkom is a Ponzi to those reading here than any answers he would give to all the questions.

I think if I were him I would be asking myself why I am the only one here still defending Flexkom or at least trying to defend them.

yeah...........this is all he says:

Originally Posted by MLM Broken Model

I really don't have a problem with the price point of the POS unit. If a local merchant is willing to pay the price, let the market decide on whether they are getting $500 in value or not.
I am interested in knowing how much the sales agent receives when they sell the unit (which appears to have $300 to $400 extra) to the local merchant? .

This is not the case.

Flexkom encourages its sales reps, like watsco, to purchase these tablets. Then the merchant gets it for free.

So the more you sell as a Flexkom sales rep, the more you get into debt.

Wow. I did not know that. So, the Flexkom Investor/Recruiter/Promoter pays $2,200 for the right to recruit others and sign up businesses. I believe this is called Pay-to-Play. Then, they have to pay Flexkom another $500 for every merchant they sign up? Did the Flexkom Promoters know about this in the beginning? Then, the Merchant has to Double Up on the discount. Example: In order to give 10% to his customers, he has to give another 10% to Flexkom to run it and pay the pyramid players upline. Oh yeah, this is going to work! :)

Originally Posted by MLM Broken Model

Did the Flexkom Promoters know about this in the beginning?

Not all. Flexkom has come up with this since the last few months. All sales reps thought, until then, that the shop had to pay for the POS system. But they found out that merchants do not want to pay for it. So then FlexKom had the genious thought that they'd let their own reps pay for it. Flexkom itself does not want to invest a single penny in their own system. All this money has to be brought up by poor sales reps. Flexkom then redistributes most of this money to their pimps like Sakinmaz who took 667.000 euro's. Well done, Flexkom!

But wait there's more!!!

Don't you have to pay for the plastic cards too?
I think they are a pound a piece in the UK.

I saw somewhere in their marketing material promising that terminal will generate at least $500 a month profit
to make reps feel lucky :)

Originally Posted by EagleOne

Instead of wasting time asking watsco to answer questions he won't and can't, just continue to post the facts so those still not decided will be able to reach their own conclusion outside of all the hype and promises of big money. The mere fact that watsco does not know most of what is being exposed here speaks louder to outsiders than anything we can say in trying to get watsco to answer anything. He is doing more to prove Flexkom is a Ponzi to those reading here than any answers he would give to all the questions.
.

With respect, I would like watsco to continue to explain why he thinks is a good opportunity and I would like a bit more info on the comp plan.

@watsco

You stated you're getting money already from this so it is paying. I can't figure out what percentage of what you're getting. Could you elaborate on this?

Originally Posted by NikSam

I saw somewhere in their marketing material promising that terminal will generate at least $500 a month profit
to make reps feel lucky :)

I had hoped from one of the Flexkom faithful to get some meaningful discussion about this, and better yet some hard data. With 13 bajillion terminals already being used they must have some idea what each terminal generates in terms of revenue for the merchant, distributor, and Flexkom. I come up with only 1 reason this information is not disseminated.

Here is my back of the envelope math for Chattanooga TN.

600,000 residents, stretching a bit that that these are all potential FK users, as in no kids or seniors in nursing care.
10,000 potential business establishments. Personally I think this is a big stretch as I included about 4000 service businesses that likely have no need or want.
60 BMs.

For $500 per month per terminal it was mentioned by UGA1 that 500 retail customers per month were needed. So 1000 customers per month per BM for 2 terminals.

The first assumption one has to make is a full 10% of the residents in Chattanooga will not only sign up, but use the FK system every month.

Second assumption is about $25 per month NEEDS to be spent by each customer or (500 customers X25) $12,500 per terminal with a 10% discount to gross the BM $500 per month.

================================
SBR.jpg Small Business at a Glance - Small Business Statistics

This may not be the perfect market analysis and is 10 years old, then I don't work for Flexcon, so not really my job to spend all day on this nonsense. The number of small businesses that do under $100,000 in revenue 28% with a full 69.5% doing under $1,000,000.

For each terminal to produce $500 for the BM roughly $12,500 in sales is needed by my math. Or in a FULL 28% of cases MORE revenue than the business does for THE WHOLE MONTH. And a GENEROUS 40% of cases HALF the revenue would have to come just from Flexkom sales.

Even if we stretch just a bit to the businesses with $1,000,000 in sales, one has to believe that a full 15% of monthly sales will be driven by Flexkom marketing.

Would still love to see some REAL numbers from the Flexkom folks, Affiliate earnings statements, per terminal stats. Hell even a verifiable market analysis of Chattanooga would bring a little validity to the discussion.

^^^^Thats all assuming Flexkom becomes operational and they don't skip town with your $3000 VIP franchise fee you paid them.

And this is where the past record of the leaders becomes very important (replying to watsco here).

There are several posts showing previous involment in dubious opportunites with the people running this show. As I pointed out earlier, some even brag about their "accomplishments" on LinkedIn.

Quote..."A successful pyramid scheme combines a fake yet seemingly credible business with a simple-to-understand yet sophisticated-sounding money-making formula which is used for profit." Got to give Flexkom some credit here.

But Ribshaw,

What happens if other Chattanooga people start promoting Beepxtra and go after the same shops? What will that do to the numbers? Apparently, Beepxtra is taking the globe by storm with a loyalty card reward system using a technilogically advanced pos system.


* * *

With so many loyalty cards and cashback cards in our purses and wallets, what makes the BeepXtra loyalty card so good?

1. No waiting, no qualifying points, spend your cashback straightaway

The cashback is loaded onto your card and backed up in a cloud-based system, ready for you to spend at the same business another time, or spend at another business accepting the card, whether local, elsewhere in the UK or abroad.* Check beepstores.com for the beep network that grows by the minute!

2. Affordable for the smallest business, whether mobile or outdoors

Unlike other loyalty card programs that we know of, the entry cost is very affordable, with various integration options including wifi-enabled dedicated tablets and even a new EPOS system.* Check beepmarket.com for the options and costs.

Unlimited Beep cards are provided free for businesses.* A transaction fee is charged on each sale through the BeepXtra system.

3. Grow the beep network, grow an income, develop a 'buy local' market

Businesses that distribute Beep cards earns a % each time the card is used elsewhere.* Anyone who introduces a business earns a % from all BeepXtra transactions at the business.* Businesses can introduce other local businesses and develop a strong buy local network.*

Help grow the network by distributing cards - available from beepmarket.com - see Power Cards.

4. It is FREE to register - as a shopper, as a business, as a networker - FREE for all, no registration fees.* Complete our Registration Details Form and we will help you get started straight away.

Do you know any businesses that would like to offer a customer loyalty program and earn extra income?* We are looking to support businesses and BeepXtra representatives throughout the UK and beyond.

And, oh my goodness, what about the lyoness affiliates. Then what?

Lyoness - the Company
Founded in 2003, Lyoness offers its Members money back with every purchase. What started out in four countries has since evolved into an international company which creates a unique Win-Win situation for everyone involved. Lyoness has created a global network from which Members and Loyalty Merchants can benefit: Members receive money back, while Loyalty Merchants gain loyal customers and provide them with special benefits.

@ Char - I hope you are being sarcastic about BeepExtra and Lyoness, right? But just in case you are actually being serious, or just for the fun of it, here are a few observations.

The obvious problem BeepXtra is going to have is somewhat similar to that of Flexkom - management team. It appears BeepXtra was started with a bunch of ex-Flexkom promoters in Europe. So, they weren't smart enough to do proper due diligence on Flexkom, I get it. But that is now on their resume and they should have to answer for that decision. And, if they come to the USA, we will make sure the public is informed.

A pure MLM Model will not work today in the mainstream because of the Multiple Levels (as many as 8 and some with infinity bonuses) of commissions and overrides adding to the cost of the product or service to the end user - the consumer.

That is just ONE of the problems with the FlexKom Model. The merchant has to Double Pay for the discount to the customer because of the commissions being paid out to so many people.

Anyone that does proper due diligence on the 4 year history of Flexkom would see the Red Flags. And anyone that knows that history would be wise to stay clear of BeepExtra. My advice, when you hear the sound of a car coming straight at you going BEEP, BEEP.....get out of the way and let it pass.

By the way, speaking of Lyoness, I would love someone to explain to me how the SEC is going to allow them to continue with the Special Booking Program where a Lyoness rep can INVEST tens of thousands of dollars into the program and then DO NOTHING and expect a RETURN ON INVESTMENT of 500 to 700% in a 4-5 year period. OK.....that is another topic for another thread.

@ freighttrain
I read where Sakinmaz received 667.000 euro's too. If Flexkom has little to no income from the actual money being spent through their system, it would make sense that the money to pay Sakinmaz came from the $2,200 Pay-to-Play investment made by people like Watsch, UGA1 and FlexkomGAUSA. And now we learn Flexkom is asking these same people to pay the cost ($500) of the POS for each merchant they enroll.

I have seen presentations online where the Promoters are suggesting others will enroll dozens even hundreds of local merchants each. So (if this is true), it would take an additional investment of $50,000 up front to enroll 100 Local Merchants. If this POS only costs Flexkom $100 (probably much less based on an earlier post), that would mean an additional PROFIT TO FLEXKOM of $40,000. This $40,000 is their to keep EVEN IF THE SYSTEM NEVER WORKS.

In Chattanooga, I think the State Manager who came on here said Flexkom "closed out" his market to new Flexkom reps (wanting to work the local market) at 60 Investors who each paid $2,200, or $132,000.
If they sign up 500 local merchants, Flexkom pockets an additional $200,000 from the sale of the POS to the Investors. The math: $132,000 + $200,000 = $332,000 to Flexkom minus what they pay the Promoters (net winners). If they duplicate this in 100 towns across the USA = $33,200,000 to Flexkom EVEN IF THE PLATFORM NEVER WORKS.

Some will laugh at this illustration but think about it. According to information available online (articles in the Observer), Flexkom signed up 30,000 Investors in Turkey at a Cost -to- Play of between a few hundred euros and 1500 euros (I think this is correct). The higher the initial investment, the more commissions earned from the efforts of other Promoters. The math: If we take a figure in the middle, say 900 euros each and multiply that by 30,000 Investors = 27,000,000 euros.

QUESTION: What does Flexkom have to show for this Investment by their Promoters and Investors/Franchise buyers?

And, since it has never actually been proven ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD over the past 4 years, why should it work now?
NOTE: Watsco and others said that Flexkom is moving from the old system (loyalty card based) to the NEW system (app based).

QUESTION: Why would a merchant want to be the TESTER for a system that puts their clients at risk of Hackers. Keep in mind, even Target got hacked and they sent me a letter stating my OLD CARD was
being replaced with a NEW CARD because of this breach of security. Has anyone asked Watsco, UGA1 and FlexkomGAUSA about the privacy and lack of security that comes with this type model?

WOW!

Originally Posted by MLM Broken Model

My last attempt to get Watsco to answer even the most obvious questions about Flexkom. The question is at the end of the post. I would appreciate an answer.

This is a copy of a post on dated 12-29-2012 Post #9
Here's a translation from the German site (flexkom.com)

Who is FlexKom

The FlexKom Group

Initial development of August 2010
Currently has 53 permanent employees
own programming team
Experienced international management team
Currently, 43,000 franchisees and about 2 million loyalty cards (In the test, Turkey)
FlexKom Europe GmbH, Stuttgart / Holzgerlingen
FlexKom International AG Turkey: Istanbul FlexKom
Currently, Phase 1 construction in Europe D / CH / A / NL / BE / F / UK
Start the whole of Europe in 2013

Watsco - The main Flexkom website showed (translation shown above) 43,000 franchisees and 2 million customers back in Dec 2012. How much ACTUAL SHOPPING has taken place since then?

Additional research on the "success" in Turkey - the so-called Test Market:


I found this information at the top right of the home page of a Pro-Flexkom website: "In the last two years they have had more than 3 million customers and 63,000 distributors, in Turkey, their test country."

Click on the Flexkom Business tab and you will find this information "The multi-channel approach has made Flexkom into the top achiever in the Turkish direct sales industry. 63,000 sales partners (who put the FlexCard into circulation in Turkey) in eighteen months as well as 3 million customers and 6,000 points of acceptance – a clear sign for well-above average success and always reason to attract enviers from the reserve." This site even shows 32,137 euros per month in income illustration without any Income Disclaimer Statement or Document. It appears Flexkom does not police the Promoters at all which is a huge red flag in itself.

Where can I find the current numbers (sales, recruits, customers, merchants etc) for Flexkom Turkey?

Originally Posted by MLM Broken Model

@ Char - I hope you are being sarcastic about BeepExtra and Lyoness, right? But just in case you are actually being serious, or just for the fun of it, here are a few observations.

For the people who think that Flexkom is such a revolutionary idea that is going to change the entire small business world in the US, you have some competition. Beepxtra has hit America.

The Customer Advantage - "Bigger than Groupon"
Global Verge - "Only phone network to offer 5g"

Who/what you say? Hunh? Sorry folks, my brain went into rewind.

As I was saying, have to wonder why flexkom was left by beepers? Heck, why did lionesses leave for flexkom? And why aren't any of you doing Amway damn it? They have everything you know and you could reward yourself without an app and shop at your own business instead of someone else's. Brilliant!

Oh dear another loyalty card competitor and this one being lead by none other than, wait for it..........Karl Roller EX-Flexkom America CEO.

@LinkedIn
Karl Roller's Overview

Current
Founder Kis Kapital LLC at Kis Kapital LLC
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