Thread: Chartfords legit or scam?

Originally Posted by Char

"I" don't have to do anything because "I" haven't foolishly given known scammers my money. It is you who should be digging.

And why is it you refuse to answer my questions? That's okay, I'm sure potential victims will find this very alarming and helpful.

They refuse to answer your questions because they are most likely a fraud.

IMHO no such business (gallery) exists. The whole thing (chartfords.com) is a scam.

I didn't want to get caught up in this crack of when I signed up and all these other questions,
The main base for Chartfords support centre is in Carlisle uk, and that has been checked out, your also wrong about the address in Canada that is a legit address for the products side of things,
It's not my place to say, even if I knew, what jack charters was involved in before but on a very serious note I have my research done on Chartfords!
I'd suggest ye go back and get closer involved with Chartfords and source the real facts like "I Have"
We can spend as much time on here disagreeing but you really need to get closer involved and speak to those directly involved to see otherwise!!

Originally Posted by My Experience

I didn't want to get caught up in this crack of when I signed up and all these other questions,
The main base for Chartfords support centre is in Carlisle uk, and that has been checked out, your also wrong about the address in Canada that is a legit address for the products side of things,
It's not my place to say, even if I knew, what jack charters was involved in before but on a very serious note I have my research done on Chartfords!
I'd suggest ye go back and get closer involved with Chartfords and source the real facts like "I Have"
We can spend as much time on here disagreeing but you really need to get closer involved and speak to those directly involved to see otherwise!!

Post your research here please.

If you have any genuine interest you'll research it for yourself!
I've gone to a lot of extremes to find a fault in Chartfords,
I've built a very successful business within Chartfords for myself and the majority of those I've signed up have received at least one payment to date, I'm continuously supporting those people active and passive to get paid and build their own business like I have!
I'm not out to be better or worse than anyone else in life,
Please research or question those who host meetings in your area, it might not seem so.. But it is legit!

Another NON ANSWER.

Future victims and those in this fellows downline better pay attention.

Btw, are you my experience suggesting the address on Chartfords own webstite for their headquarters is not correct?

Are you afraid you'll be proven wrong Char?

By all means, go ahead and prove me wrong and post your research and answer the questions.

Originally Posted by My Experience

If you have any genuine interest you'll research it for yourself!

There is nothing left to "research" it is a recruiting scheme, if you had anything constructive to add you would have done so. After all, this is YOUR "business", and good research would certainly put us all in our place.

Originally Posted by My Experience

I've gone to a lot of extremes to find a fault in Chartfords,

YOU SAY. Yet not one of these "extremes" has been listed, much less offered in a manner that can be verified.

Originally Posted by My Experience

I've built a very successful business within Chartfords for myself and the majority of those I've signed up have received at least one payment to date,

Once again your own words betray you, you are not "selling art", you are recruiting, recruiting, recruiting. That is not a business, that is furthering a pyramid/recruiting scheme using your name and friends wallets.

I've my proof got that its legit,
Your the one saying its a scam and you've faults information, get your facts straight!!
People... Go to a presentation and get facts on the business, before you do anything!

I'm not recruiting anyone... I'm advising people to get the right information!

So why is the website showing Domain Names for sale instead of the home page for Art?

So if you have a successful business within this programme, pray provide the names and descriptions of oh, half a dozen works of art that you have sold via this gallery?

Originally Posted by My Experience

I'm not recruiting anyone... I'm advising people to get the right information!

Where better to get the right information than here?
You're here, we're here please post it here.
It seems a shame to let your meticulous research go to waste.

Again... you don't have the correct information when your saying I'm selling the art..
GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT GUYS!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by My Experience

Again... you don't have the correct information when your saying I'm selling the art..

Originally Posted by My Experience

I'm not recruiting anyone... I'm advising people to get the right information!

You're not recruiting and you're not selling the art.

Where is the money coming from, then ???

You want me to get my facts right? Are you sure that is your wish, My Experience? I have a habit of digging up far more than people wanted exposed, when a shill makes that challenge.


And speaking of facts, why would an "art gallery" have had a major link to https://web.archive.org/web/20110202...styledvds.com/ in the middle of their homepage? Lifestyle DVDs doesn't sound like an art gallery to me.

Looking at the review at http://behindmlm.com/companies/chart...-fine-art-mlm/ and then checking up on Chartsford's parent company http://midasgrp.co.uk , it seems that the parent company stopped promoting or even talking about this "art gallery" in May 2013, https://web.archive.org/web/20130522...idasgrp.co.uk/

Does anyone here know how to look up a Canadian business by their revenue number? Chartfords claims to be 82115 9621 RT0001, but I'm at an impasse trying to navigate the Canadian revenue agency website attempting to find their paperwork.

Littleroundman
No I'm not recruiting or selling!
I'm advising those who would like to earn an income from sales by Chartfords!
After that it's their choice if they want to get involved, I have Never.. And will Never ask anyone to do so!
The income comes from sales!

Profhenryhiggins
I'm a shill now... Lol...
I'm not interested in your challenge, but feel free to dig up what you like!

Originally Posted by My Experience

Littleroundman
No I'm not recruiting or selling!
I'm advising those who would like to earn an income from sales by Chartfords!

Of course you're not.

What was I thinking ???

You're just surfing around the internet "advising" people about Chartfords and defending it out of the goodness of your heart.

How could anyone doubt your sincerity ??

Oz over on BEHIND MLM had some interesting things to say when he did his Chartfords review - fine art & MLM ?

Conclusion

A simplified breakdown of the Chartfords compensation would be that members join the company, invest money and earn a 625% ROI once 30 new $200 CAD investments have been made after their own.

The obvious counter to this is that Chartfords members are purchasing art, with any commissions paid out being incidental. As per the breakdown of money members pay to the company however upon “purchase” of artwork, this is not the case.

Chartfords claim that for every $1250 payout, it is only the fourth layer of the 2×4 matrix (16 positions) that counts towards commission payouts. The positions in levels 1 to 3 are used to pay commissions on positions above (counted as being the fourth level of a mini 2×4 matrix higher up in the company wide binary).

At $200 CAD a pop, this equates to the fourth level of every mini 2×4 matrix generating $3200.

Out of this $3200, just $640 is paid to the artist for the artwork (20%), with the remaining $2560 (80%) used to pay other members who have prior bought positions.

Chartfords take their $420 (7.6%) cut out of each remaining $2560 balance.

If we consider that each position bought winds up being the fourth layer of a mini-matrix within the company wide binary, this equates to 80% of the revenue generated by Chartfords being paid out as a ROI to members who deposited money with the company previously.

Where is this revenue sourced? New deposits made by new and existing members.

With art purchases accounting for just 20% of the total revenue members pump into the company, each $200 CAD deposit generating an effective 625%
ROI once a theoretical minimum of 32 new deposits have been made and no retailable products or services able to be sold by members, Chartfords effectively operates as a member-funded Ponzi scheme.

Whereas a traditional Ponzi scheme pays out ROIs based on a fixed number of new investments or a variable ROI rate (based on the rate of investment and re-investment by members), Chartfords on the other hand effectively increase the rate at which ROIs are paid out, due to the company-wide binary increasing in width which each new level generated.

Overtime the binary will balloon out and with half of each member’s new investments being designated to the oldest unfilled position, this will result in longer and longer blowout times for members to fill new 2×4 matrices and earn their ROI.

Adding to this is also the problematic creation of “free” positions each time an existing positions cycles. These positions bring no new revenue into the scheme, yet still extract an eventual $1250 CAD payment.

Nevermind the fact that if new and existing members stop buying artwork investing in binary/matrix positions, the entire scheme collapses.

Props to Chartfords for a bit of creativity with the whole “fine artwork” angle, but the reality is their business model and compensation plan is no different to any other Ponzi scheme out there.

When you have members funding existing member’s ROI payouts, paid out upon a fixed number of new investments being made, ultimately what the company pairs this model with becomes irrelevant.

Originally Posted by My Experience

I'm not recruiting anyone... I'm advising people to get the right information!

You yourself said:

Originally Posted by My Experience

I've built a very successful business within Chartfords for myself and the majority of those I've signed up have received at least one payment to date, I'm continuously supporting those people active and passive to get paid and build their own business like I have!

Let's not play word games, you are not participating in 10 threads here at RealScam, just 1. Thus far your reason for participation has not been to give people the right information, just to obsfuscate and refuse to answer questions. Either to avoid admitting you made a mistake or to keep the ruse going a little longer, makes no matter.

I stumbled on this lil gem last night, seems like a great group of folks to do business with. One thing we can agree on is people would be well served to get the "right information" if they plan on getting in the art business. First and foremost would be how to appraise a work of art so they don't end up paying 10X value in some sideways recruiting scheme.




Collectors alerted to online art ripoff

Date
April 20, 2014

Andrew Taylor

Consumers risk being ripped off by a website selling artworks and prints at more than 10 times their market value, an art expert warns.

David Hulme said art collectors should avoid making purchases from Chartfords, an online gallery that operates in Britain with a head office in Canada.

''I'm concerned not just due to the high prices of the art in relation to their real value, but the way that people are being encouraged to invest potentially very substantial sums of money on art that has very little commercial value,'' Mr Hulme said.

An approved valuer for the federal government's Cultural Gifts Program, Mr Hulme said he had been approached by two clients in the past month about buying works from the online art gallery, including a 19th-century painting by British painter David Fulton that was advertised for $C12,500 ($12,174).

''I found this exact painting had been purchased for a little over £400 in December 2013 at a local auctioneer in Sussex in the UK,'' he said. ''I simply phoned the client and advised him that this would be a very poor investment under the circumstances.''

Yet a promotional video, An Introduction to Chartfords, claims that ''huge savings can be made'' because ''we bypass most of the supply chain, eliminating most of these traditional costs''.

When another client approached Mr Hulme about Chartfords, he discovered that many other paintings on the website had been purchased at auctioneers in the UK and then advertised for at least 10 times the auction price.

Fairfax Media sought comment from one of the founders of Chartfords, Jack Charters.

Mr Hulme uncovered other examples of overpriced art on the Chartfords site.

A painting titled Two Snakes Dreaming by Australian artist Clifford Possum Tjapaltjarri was apparently sold for $C29,000, yet Mr Hulme said it appeared to have been purchased for about £1300 at an auction in February 2014 in Kent.

A Goya etching that typically sells for about $1500 at auction is advertised for $C30,000 on the Chartfords website.

''So it does seem there is a pattern of placing very high prices on artworks, although this in itself is not illegal,'' Mr Hulme said.

''Unethical yes, illegal no,'' said the head of media at Choice, Tom Godfrey. ''Merchants are free to charge whatever people are willing to pay.''

But Mr Godfrey said that people buying art online should seek an independent valuation.

He said Chartfords had to comply with local consumer law regarding product liability, consumer guarantees and misleading and deceptive conduct when supplying to Australian consumers: ''Of course, enforcement is another matter.''

Mr Hulme said there had been a massive increase in the number of art collectors buying online.

But, he said: ''I definitely would advise not purchasing art at chartfords.com and not getting involved.''

Read more: Collectors alerted to online art ripoff

What WAS Planline?


The artful dodgers | Money | The Guardian
The artful dodgers
Despite government attempts to tackle the swindlers, a new pyramid scheme based on so-called works of art is doing the rounds. Tony Levene reports
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Tony Levene
The Guardian, Friday 28 November 2003
Whether it's Dali or Delacroix, Manet or Monet, Picasso or Pisarro, most admire art. And we all like to think we can make a fortune, spotting the next Damien Hirst or Tracey Emin.

So it's no surprise that scamsters, get-rich quick scheme merchants, and pyramid plan purveyors have now started to use paintings, prints and sculpture to separate us from our savings.

This week, the Department of Trade and Industry unveiled a campaign to make potential victims aware of a whole range of swindles highlighting phoney or overpriced works of art as an investment.

And, in the Queen's speech, the government announced new measures to combat "pyramid" scams including money circulation schemes such as Women Empowering Women, first exposed by Jobs & Money in July 2001. WEW cost countless victims £3,000.

But even as these initiatives get off the ground, Jobs & Money can reveal a new art-based pyramid scheme which is hoping to emulate the Women Empowering Women scheme.

The scheme is called Planline, and combines the pyramid element of WEW with the lure of art seen in schemes such as Ashley Jenkins - revealed in Jobs & Money in September 2001 - and at Chappell Paige Durrant. Both these companies have finally been put out of business by the DTI in the past two months.

Planline promises you can multiply your initial investment seven times over within 12 months similar to the WEW claim of turning £3,000 into £24,000.

They are so sure of its money-making potential that one Planline enthusiast told us this week to "cash in your pension plan" to buy into the scheme.

Planline is more sophisticated than WEW. It harnesses the power of the internet to recruit and communicate.

And it is a notch above other money circulation scams which rely on selling spurious "products" to dodge existing rules banning pyramid schemes.

The arty part of Planline is that "investors" buy "limited edition" prints, photos and sculptures from website "infocusinternational.com".

These are priced in Swiss francs - in sterling the art costs anything from £120 to around £2,400. A copy of the print reproduced on our cover costs 5,200 Swiss francs on the site - about £2,420. What they would really be worth in the UK is unclear.

But you do not get to see or feel the art before purchase. The Infocus gallery is online only. And trying to knock on Infocus's door will be tough. Infocus is an "offshore exempt trading company" registered in the super-secretive Cayman Islands where it hides behind the anonymity of a post box number.

But it is not the sale of the art that is at the heart of the scam. It is the fact that purchase of the art (in reality a 16x12 inch print) buys you membership of the pyramid.

Earlier this week, Jobs & Money spoke to "Andy" (surnames in money circulations and pyramid schemes are rare) from Bradford. Andy advertises Planline on the internet.

Andy said: "I'm really involved with this and it's the best I've seen in a year of looking for a business opportunity."

Andy admitted he has only been involved since early this month when he was introduced to the scheme by his friend Colin who, he says, has turned £800 into £4,000 although he cannot touch the money yet. Colin was recruited by a Cumbrian pub owner who, Andy says, "is really, really rich"

But Andy sees the route to his own riches ahead. "I want the best return so I've got to be active in this business. Someone I know has been offered an initial interim payment of 1,860 Swiss francs for every 260 Swiss francs unit purchased. And a share investment club in Lancashire has sold shares to go into Planline. It has turned £4,000 into £68,000 though they can't cash in yet," he says. "You might make some money on the art but it's quicker if you tell others about it and get them to join."

Money circulation schemes -pyramids where earnings depend mainly on bringing in new recruits - are under attack from proposed Department of Culture, Media and Sport legislation.

The gambling bill to be unveiled early next year will make it illegal to organise, encourage others to take part in, or benefit from "chain gifting schemes" such as WEW where all but those early into the scheme lose their money. It will state that anyone who sets up or profits from chain gifting schemes will face up to six months in jail or fines of £5,000.

But this will not deter Andy. "This scheme is 100% legal," he says. "It must be - half the police forces are into this."

Andy's assertion of mass police involvement is impossible to verify and extraordinarily unlikely. But whether any UK law will be able to stop plans where there is an apparent product, which are denominated in a foreign currency and which are controlled by an anonymous company from a post box in a tax haven is unclear.

Victims want their money back more than legal revenge. Pauline Jones, 58, from Kent, was conned into spending £7,000 for prints worth £300 by dodgy dealer Chappell Paige Durrant, whose sole director was Andrew Neil Laverty. It was wound up by the DTI 10 days ago. She believes there was £20,000 in the firm's business account which, she reckons, has been "confiscated by the government or spent on liquidators".

So will she get any of her money back? "I won't get a penny ... that annoys me."

Many victims want to see assets belonging to directors and shareholders of dodgy firms grabbed to repay victims.

The DTI says: "When a company is wound up by the DTI a liquidator is appointed to preserve and protect a company's assets and make payments to creditors. The Asset Recovery Agency has been established by the Home Office under the Proceeds of Crime Act to recover assets in criminal cases."

Pyramids are just the tip of get-rich-quick schemes

Money circulation schemes, such as Planline and Women Empowering Women, operate on a simple premise. You pay a sum to join and then collect part of the "admission fees" of those you recruit. And the way to find new "members" is to promise they, in turn, will multiply their cash many times in a short period without effort.

Scheme promoters assume greed is more powerful than scepticism or the mathematical certainty that you soon run out of potential recruits.

Planline is more complicated than Women Empowering Women which required each woman to find eight others with £3,000 to make the promised £24,000.

Instead of asking for cash to "help women", it takes money for pricey art. The profit on the artwork pays for "high yield earnings."

Planline uses typical pyramid scheme labelling so you start as a "member" and then move from bronze to silver to gold levels as you recruit more "downline". And everyone you persuade to join also benefits those who recruited you - the "upline".

As "members" buy the prints, their upline gets "points" in "target" plans. As each target is filled up, the upline moves to higher targets. Hitting the first three should give 5,000 Swiss francs (£2,325). Then the plan leads through recruiting countless thousands and ends at "diamond" level where you get 80,000 Swiss francs. But only those who get into the scheme early are likely to progress beyond first base.

In some similar schemes, recruits work on a "10x10" matrix where the first person finds 10, who each find 10 and so on. After seven levels, the pyramid has 1.1m people - assuming it does not collapse.

Most do. But money circulation schemes are only one of the perils awaiting the gullible or the plain greedy.

According to consumer minister Gerry Sutcliffe, people lose at least £350m a year to a variety of get rich quick scams. He has just launched a new drive to stop people being hit with dishonest deals in art, wine, jewellery, worthless shares and property.

"Unsolicited approaches are accompanied by exaggerated claims about likely returns. In fact, the goods turn out to have little or no real investment potential, or may be sold at such an inflated price, a loss is almost guaranteed," Sutcliffe says.

The advice is on www.dti.gov.uk. But to scam victims, the problem is only finding out about warnings after the event.

Peter Adamson (not his real name) is ashamed of losing £32,000 to a boiler room share scam in Budapest.

He bought shares in US slimming product company Slenderline via unauthorised broker FKS Global - a successor to Livingstone Asset Management which has featured several times in Jobs & Money and which is on the FSA warning list.

He funded his purchase with money borrowed on a 0% credit card deal.

He was told his investment would soar when the firm listed on the US over the counter market. But OTC status means little, the shares were unsellable and his money is lost, threatening his business and his marriage.

"You only get to see the warnings when you know you've been had," he says.

"Then you find out everything you should have known before you wasted your money. The Guardian site has loads of warnings; there is the FSA; and there is good stuff on the Investors Chronicle's IC Forum site," he says

"The DTI move is welcome, but it would not have saved me. I would not have seen it. The banks should warn people about sending big sums abroad. If a fraction of the amount they spend on credit card warnings was transfered to customer education on offshore share scams, I would not be desperate." he says.

What WAS Rewarding Art in 2007?

http://progressiveart.co.uk/wp-conte...sentation1.pdf


Is now a web archive:

Artwork Gallery

Planline, Rewarding Art, and now Chartfords.

They could have at least thought of something "original". Hehe get it "original". Ugh, I'm bored. Let's just add this one to the list. However, I'm sure what might have been future victims would thank "my experience" for exposing Chartfords on a scam site. So not for naught.

Sure hope you're not one of the last ones in, My Experience.

I've read that article myself,
Not a mention of pyramid or scam in it, as the people that went to the trouble of getting that published know well, that it's nether a pyramid or scam!!
For years people have been interested in collecting art,
If I was to purchase art from an art gallery other than Chartfords I would never have received any income from there sales thereafter!
Ye guys are GREAT on computers clearly!
Get up off your arse, and approach those directly involved and STOP... Defamation on a company you know **** all about!!

Originally Posted by My Experience

STOP... Defamation on a company you know **** all about!!

Defaming a ponzi / pyramid scam and those behind it ????

Not possible

Poor 'my experience'. not going to get his money back. as desperately as he tries to keep the scam going. seems his 'experience' is not a good one. lmao.