Thread: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam

Originally Posted by iainsherriff

Attachment 2402

" Hey Bannersbroker, I have a complaint. The presents your Affiliates but are way too

BIG to fit down chimneys"

Looks like Santa is taking a huge dump down your affiliates' chimney, Ian....

A bit like what Raj Dixit is planning to do

Originally Posted by Hypanor

I'm referred in, in fact I think I have signed up 9 or 10 times - can I have 'The Truth' now please BBD?
I'd like to know, because not one of the referrers I (silently) used have bothered to contact me or tell me anything. I'm assuming Banners Broker can provide an upline with contact details of those who have signed up under them? You know, so you know BB aren't ripping you off (actually they are, but you know what I mean)?

Which of my affiliate links would you like, I have several to choose from. Are they counted as part of the 250,000 brethren?

Have you really committed yourself brother cult member by putting money into any of your registered accounts? anyone even the detractors can show interest and not commit by just registering.

Originally Posted by Beacon

I suggest you look up affirming a consequent when you are preusing "logical fallacy"

Hint:
P: All communists have beards
Q: BB Defender has a beard

Therefore can we conclude BB defender is a communist?

Similarly whether or not Amathyst supplies any personal information about himself has no bearing whatsoever on claims made on the experience and working history of Chris Smith.

At best were amathyst to supply verification of experience in senior marketing it would confirm his claim about himself.
But even if he supplied such details he would not be able to prove anything based on the fallacy of "argument from authority"

tyhe point about chris smith isnt that proving his background would make his claims toru. Chris Smith should he produce his credentials would similarly be arguing from authority. The point is if Chris Smith utterly fails to produce background evidence he is most probably lying about his background and cant be trusted in any business. Amythest isnt asking anyone to buy into any business so it isnt required he support any claims about himself. But at least amythesyt supplies source material and verifiable references to back up his argument and not fast talk and opinion.

Hey Beacon, you are clearly a master of logical deduction and whatever else you specialise in, but you are also very clearly ignorant about real world business practices.

Originally Posted by Theseus

So this legitimate advertising broker, fearful of "copycats" launched its business as a "straightline cycler doubler" that (rather than offering any product) promised to "take $20 and DOUBLE it MULTIPLE TIMES TO $10,000" to throw others off the scent?

Come to think of it, you might be onto something there. I'm pretty sure when Google was launched initially it was a drive-thru carwash....

No actually google launched itself to a very small group of research students as a way to collectively share the research they had undertaken. Ummm sounds a bit different to the multi billion marketing machine it is today.

Originally Posted by Beacon

Yes and I have succeeded in finding out. In fact management theory and training are full of such things.



Yes they do.


Yes it originally was coca - yuou know the drug from which cocaine is made? their current ingredients are a trade secret. But we arent asking BB to reveal any trade secrets. We are asking like Coca cola
-where therir offices are
- what is the background of their staff
-wher are their annual company returns
- how much tax did they pay?

All this is freely available for Google and Coca Cola and indeed it is required by law.
so where is it for BB - which does not exist since it was changed to Stellar Point.


Actually no! the UK is a common law juristiction. In CRIMINAL law innocence is assumed. You might well be guilty but it is assumed you arent. The BURDEN OF PROOF ( remember that phrase) is on the prosecution to prove guilt in a CRIMINAL case.

But in a civil case it is based on "balance of evidence" not "assumption of innocence"
Company Law and Contract Law is civil law.

In a sence BB is on trial here. The prosecution produced ample evidence about the background of Dixit and the failure to satisfy statutory regulatory conditions. what defence have you prodeced? what actual evidence? Piss and winf like the barber's cat.



True and there is not necessity for terrorists to prove they are not terrorists either.
Or for the Nazis to prove they were not out to get people.
And if we all sit around and do nothing while others suffer eventually they come for you.


what people do is their own business



Again what I do or do not do elsewhere is nothing to do with the issue of you coming here to support claims about BB being a legit business.
and can you lay of the ad hominem? When you are losing an argument do you always resort to attacking the other person instead?

If it is a legal requirement that for BB to continue with its business it needed to declare all you say it needs to declare then logically thinking it would no longer be trading as the authorities would have shut it down? Private limited companies need only submit their company reports and accounts to the companies house or equivalent in Canada, if you want to find out its current turnover just use the Canadian equivalent of the compass guide. Regardless of what you say about private actions of individuals still it stands to reason that with so many people complaining about BB here on this thread since 10-21-2011, 12:01 PM some of you would have alerted the authorities and they would have taken some action. near the start there are statements such as

"Roll up, roll up,

Place your bets, Ladies and Gentlemen.

How many weeks left in this one ???" --- littleroundman (administrator)

hey littleroundman what went wrong why is BB still around?, your predictions seem as faulty as your subsequent intel on BB.

Originally Posted by littleroundman

Did you know the average lifetime of a fruit fly is around 30 days, depending on climatic conditions.

During that 30 days, a fruit fly will hatch, mature, infect, reproduce and die.

I think perhaps we should reclassify Banners Broker HYIP ponzi shills as "advanced fruitflies"

Their lifecycle is definitely nearing the end.

as near as your initial prediction dated 06-21-2012, 04:18 AM

quoting "The end is nigh:"

that would mean I still have some time to make money on BB going by materialisation of your past prophecies.

Originally Posted by littleroundman

I don't know.

Perhaps you'd better ask the victims of previous frauds exactly how is was done.

Come to think of it, I think there's probably a whole pile of Madoff Securities victims who would have considered themselves a great deal smarter than events subsequently proved them to be.

IOW, your "how is it possible for someone as smart as me to be hoodwinked" may well work on rank amateurs, but it certainly won't work here.

so in that sense nobody should ever start a business where there is any risk? We should all just sit on these threads expressing our negative opinions of the different business opportunities because its we cant get our head around the business concept. Or is it just spite at not being able to take part that makes us sit here?

Originally Posted by BB Defender

so in that sense nobody should ever start a business where there is any risk? We should all just sit on these threads expressing our negative opinions of the different business opportunities because its we cant get our head around the business concept. Or is it just spite at not being able to take part that makes us sit here?

Can you supply the information we have asked for regarding Chris Smith if you have it?

Or are you for some reason avoiding the issue?

Originally Posted by StevenHoward

Hi BBdefender.

Unlike a lot of people on this forum, PLUS unlike the vast majority of BBmembers I've an open mind, I'm not totally convinced one way or another, however after a lot of research I now think that BB ***IS*** a ponzi.

Note I said **THINK**. It ticks all the boxes of being a Ponzi, but as things stand there is still no absolute proof one way or another.

Banner Broker can kill this thread dead and vastly increase their number of affiliates IF they can prove where the adverts are displayed, not everyone, maybe a hundred out of the hundreds of thousands they claim to be publishing from genuine well known companies.

Who is this mysterious "Broker" in the blind network that places the ads for BB ?.

There will be no requirement for expensive lawyers to tackle the growing number of BB critics if the requested information above is supplied.

In the meantime, what else are intelligent people expected to think ?

Steven, when I was investigating the inconsistencies with BB I thought it seemed like a pyramid scheme not a ponzi scheme though as there are subtle differences between the two, it seemed more consistent with the pyramid structure than Joseph Ponzi's approach to fraudulent business opportunities. However that being said both are illegal and fraudulent. However there were also aspects of this business that didn't sit in with your typical pyramid scheme, I cant speak for BB v1 as I had no interaction with it, but certainly in BB v2 it seemed there were things that didn't add up to pyramid scheme behavior.

1) The rules of working with the BB panels and traffic dictate that profitability is not as great as expected, check my earlier posts you will see factual info on what the return on investment actually is. If anyone can claim otherwise based on BB v2 then let them speak.

2) Typically the management of a pyramid scheme rarely choose to live overtly and go around promoting their product worldwide, The management team are known, they appear in public and I can tell you now that during Feb 2013 (8,9,10) they will be in the ICT Sonar hotel, in Kolkata, India. They don't seem to be running scared or in fear of being caught.

3) The business they have engaged in the buying and selling of impressions is not really that difficult to understand and once you know what to look for you can find the evidence of a real industry and the lucrative nature of the online advertising industry.

4) The compliance rules have meant that a lot of greedy and misbehaving affiliates such as DR lievan van neste have been kicked out of BB, some of them are here on this thread trying to take revenge by debunking BB with lies. Why would a fraudulent business enterprise do this? Why kick some others out for being greedy and exhibiting corrupt behaviour when they themselves are the source a great misconduct and scam?

5) Pyramid schemes rarely last very long, they collapse when the money from new recruits does not pay for the recruiters profits. The amount of new money going into BB is not huge the organisation must be undertaking some profit making activity in order to be able to continue paying out the profits to the affiliates, there simply is not enough fresh money coming in to cover that cost.

6) For any affiliate to make any serious money on a Pyramid schemes that individual has to recruit new affiliates, with BB this is not so you can make money without recruiting new people, it may be slower and a little less profitable never the less it still is profitable if an individual chooses not to refer anyone.

7) Finally if BB is a pyramid scheme why would they still be around? they have already enough cash to running through the business to run and hide with tens of millions in their pockets, but they haven't rather they are constantly trying to make changes and improvements to their business model and structure so that they can continue running the business, this is more consistent with normal business practices than pyramid schemes. Sure maybe they are doing it out of greed to get a bigger payout but no one is that stupid after seeing zeek fall they would continue with their fraudulent business till the investigators come, they didn't seem nervous or scared in Ireland, in fact they have expanded into new offices so what gives?

Anyway the other questions you raised are answered below.

You really need to understand the concept of a blind network, the reality is that BB cannot provide you the location of the ads never mind that BB doesn't have this information the publishers/websites which are used wouldn't allow it as this would be like shooting themselves in the foot. Publishers are undertaking direct selling of their ad inventory at price (A) when they offer remnant ad inventory on the blind network due to market forces it is sold at a lower price say price (B), if the publishers allowed themselves to be named then this would negatively affect the direct selling of their ad inventory.

I am also curious to know which of the brokers they use maybe its a question I will pose on the Kolkata leg of the BB world tour, they don't have anything to lose now as they already have real competitors who have started operating with the same business model and I don't mean the 1800banners.com which I mentioned in my earlier posts. All that was just to wind up the pathological pessimists sitting on this thread.

BBDefender

You seem to be an expert in all things Banners Broker.

Can you supply the information we have asked for regarding Chris Smith if you have it?

We know nothing about this guy who runs a multi-million dollar worldwide advertising company.

Originally Posted by Joe_Shmoe

Can you supply the information we have asked for regarding Chris Smith if you have it?

Or are you for some reason avoiding the issue?

Read my earlier post to Brenda, I don't have access to this information. I have never said that I do!

I am simply defending a business opportunity with the limited knowledge that I have gained over the last 6 months. The fact that I can refute or request evidence for the false claims that some of you guys are making is evidence that the one sided vitriol being spouted on this thread is really just nonsense, feelings, dreams, hypothetical's all being spouted as facts. I believe BB to be a genuine online business opportunity and I wish to defend it till I have been provided with irrefutable evidence that it is not.

When that evidence has been provided then I will change my name to BB Attacker and attack BB with all my might.

Originally Posted by BB Defender

Read my earlier post to Brenda, I don't have access to this information. I have never said that I do!

That's the point Chris Smith he runs a worldwide advertising company we & you know ZIP about him. Why is this?

This guy just popped up out of nowhere apparently.

Originally Posted by Joe_Shmoe

BBDefender

You seem to be an expert in all things Banners Broker.

Can you supply the information we have asked for regarding Chris Smith if you have it?

We know nothing about this guy who runs a multi-million dollar worldwide advertising company.

All I know about Chris Smith is that he is really a black afro carribean man, he seems somewhat overweight, doesn't dance too well and is not a very good public speaker. but that doesn't make him a criminal, that doesn't make him the leader of a cult, that doesn't make him the mastermind behind an evil pyramid scam that is planning to rob millions of people of their hard earned cash.

He just seemed to be soft spoken ordinary person who had a really good business concept and managed to get it to work.

Oh dear,

and I had such high hopes for BB Defender, too.

Now he's had to resort to the HYIP ponzi pimps' last fallback defenses: "flood the thread" and "Is it a ponzi or is it a pyramid"

Ponzi -pyramid ?? pyramid - ponzi ???

Who the h*** cares ???

Certainly not prosecutors.

Securities violations / wire fraud / fraud / money laundering / conspiracy

THAT'S what we're talking about here.

Just ask Andy Bowdoin or Paul Burks.

Originally Posted by BB Defender

All I know about Chris Smith is that he is really a black afro carribean man, he seems somewhat overweight, doesn't dance too well and is not a very good public speaker.

So on that basis (knowing literately nothing about his business acumen, history, qualifications etc, etc, etc,) you would consider him a good investment?

A guy who popped up out of nowhere no back story or history?


Raj Dixit has a history if you care to look it up.

@BBdefender: What due diligence did you do before putting money into BB?

Originally Posted by noname999

@BBdefender: What due diligence did you do before putting money into BB?

He asked himself "is it paying" ??

Originally Posted by BB Defender

If it is a legal requirement that for BB to continue with its business it needed to declare all you say it needs to declare then logically thinking it would no longer be trading as the authorities would have shut it down? Private limited companies need only submit their company reports and accounts to the companies house or equivalent in Canada, if you want to find out its current turnover just use the Canadian equivalent of the compass guide. Regardless of what you say about private actions of individuals still it stands to reason that with so many people complaining about BB here on this thread since 10-21-2011, 12:01 PM some of you would have alerted the authorities and they would have taken some action. near the start there are statements such as

"Roll up, roll up,

Place your bets, Ladies and Gentlemen.

How many weeks left in this one ???" --- littleroundman (administrator)

hey littleroundman what went wrong why is BB still around?, your predictions seem as faulty as your subsequent intel on BB.

How do you know they haven't and they aren't?

Originally Posted by Joe_Shmoe

So on that basis (knowing literately nothing about his business acumen, history, qualifications etc, etc, etc,) you would consider him a good investment?

A guy who popped up out of nowhere no back story or history?


Raj Dixit has a history if you care to look it up.

Probably Smith will start to have back story once BB goes belly up as junior ponzi collector

Originally Posted by littleroundman

Oh dear,

and I had such high hopes for BB Defender, too.

Now he's had to resort to the HYIP ponzi pimps' last fallback defenses: "flood the thread" and "Is it a ponzi or is it a pyramid"

Ponzi -pyramid ?? pyramid - ponzi ???

Who the h*** cares ???

Certainly not prosecutors.

Securities violations / wire fraud / fraud / money laundering / conspiracy

THAT'S what we're talking about here.

Just ask Andy Bowdoin or Paul Burks.

Well its important to know which crime you are theoretically taking part in and profiting from.

Originally Posted by Lil Ol' Radical Me

How do you know they haven't and they aren't?

It's not hard to tell who has experience in these matters and who has gained their experience from watching TV and movies.

It doesn't matter how many times we remind people, in the real world, HYIP ponzi investigations take a minimum of 12 months and, more usually around 18 months, there's always a HYIP ponzi pimp who trots out the "if it were a ponzi, why haven't the authorities acted" defense.

Originally Posted by littleroundman

He asked himself "is it paying" ??

And then he found that Smith is soft spoken ordinary person and answer was " it must be paying"

Originally Posted by Joe_Shmoe

So on that basis (knowing literately nothing about his business acumen, history, qualifications etc, etc, etc,) you would consider him a good investment?

A guy who popped up out of nowhere no back story or history?


Raj Dixit has a history if you care to look it up.

I didn't invest money in Chris Smith, I started up a business whether it sinks or swims is up to me BB is just a mediator that allows me to interact with a much bigger market place.

I know about raj dixit and his homes scandal. It was a big bother to me when I first found out, but I got over it, he made his mistakes, he payed his dues and maybe he has learnt his lesson that crime doesn't pay and so on this occasion is not committing a crime.

Originally Posted by Mundorf

Probably Smith will start to have back story once BB goes belly up as junior ponzi collector

He will simply disappear into the ether from whence he came, but considerably wealthier.

Originally Posted by noname999

@BBdefender: What due diligence did you do before putting money into BB?

@BBdef: I think you may have missed my question.