Thread: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam

Originally Posted by BB Defender

Impressions are a product used by advertisers and they pay good money to buy and use those impressions, google, facebook, youtube etc. are clear examples of how lucrative the sale of impressions are, yet when bannersbroker offer the opportunity for you to buy and sell impressions its a scam.

But there are no ads. Take another look at Finches latest update please.

Banners Broker Scam Update « Finch Sells

can anyone from admin team send me a pm, thanks

Originally Posted by BB Defender

Yet when the product is impressions because you cant see it, you cant touch it, you cant eat it, you feel its fraud. Yet you cant see minutes you buy from a mobile network, you cant touch those minutes, you cant eat those minutes and yet you spend plenty of money buying and using those minutes.

Impressions are a product used by advertisers and they pay good money to buy and use those impressions, google, facebook, youtube etc. are clear examples of how lucrative the sale of impressions are, yet when bannersbroker offer the opportunity for you to buy and sell impressions its a scam.

Another rubbish element to your analogy. With mobile minutes you get a report each month saying how many minutes you have used and how you have gone over them. You would know because you know how much phone usage you have. In some cases you will even get an itemised bill telling you exactly where those minutes were used.

This type of monitoring report is normally available for impressions through normal online advertising portals; however, Banners Broker only give you a report which details the impressions you have used for your campaign. For the 'rented ad space' you get nothing but a colour representation (panel) that dwindles down at unusual cycles. Even these are manually updated when the 'engine' is run. This should surely be a relatively basic automation process.

No one understands or knows why the panels are of different colours and values?

Originally Posted by hendyphilhendy

No one understands or knows why the panels are of different colours and values?

I understand! It's to confuse potential investors - the more confusing the 'business' is the more likely it is that the investor won't understand it; ergo seeing through the holes in the business model.
And knowing what it really is.

Jason

littleroundman, I've just responded. It seems my pm's aren't sending so we'll see if you get this one. Thanks

Nope, just checked, seems all my pm's are being stored ??

Before any more comments are made regarding my recent posts I want to apologise if anyone was offended. I hold a lot of stock in this forum and its good intentions and wouldn't want to have tarnished that.

Originally Posted by amathyst87

Before any more comments are made regarding my recent posts I want to apologise if anyone was offended. I hold a lot of stock in this forum and its good intentions and wouldn't want to have tarnished that.

I wouldn't worry - you have only 30 posts.
Not enough to tarnish this forum's reputation - I think.

Jason

Originally Posted by legalrep

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I WANT MY MONEY BACK!

At least be honest about why you're here scammer.

Originally Posted by Julie Diligent

As the resident Choice Network gumshoe, allow me...

There are 56 domain names registered to BB on the Choice Network server (IP: 69.162.83.34). I was able to identify 53 a few weeks ago, townbeats.com being one of them. However it didn't host a website, just a holding page, so I didn't post it in here.

So let's take a closer look at buzinga.ca, the site peddling the $299 Dr. Dre headphones:

Domain name: buzinga.ca
Domain status: registered
Creation date: 2012/03/12
Expiry date: 2014/03/12
Updated date: 2012/11/28
Registrar:
Name: SIBERNAME INTERNET AND SOFTWARE TECHNOLOGIES INC.
Number: 108

Hmmm... that's all; not the usual GoDaddy registrar and full registrant details. They've used Sibername and paid for privacy protection (smart move). Looks like a dead-end.

But wait! Let's have a little lookie-see at the similar domain name registered on the same day: buzinga.org...

Domain Name:BUZINGA.ORG
Created On:12-Mar-2012 20:25:49 UTC
Last Updated On:28-Nov-2012 18:21:34 UTC
Expiration Date:12-Mar-2014 20:25:49 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Sibername Internet and Software Technologies Inc. (R1388-LROR)
Registrant Name:Kelly Stinson
Registrant Organization:8136645 Canada Limited
Registrant Street1:637 Merlin Court
Registrant City:Oshawa
Registrant State/Province:Ontario
Registrant Postal Code:L1K1M3
Registrant Country:CA
Registrant Phone:+1.9059033600
Registrant Email: kellyguarini@yahoo.ca

...and then cross-check it on the Canadian corporations database...

Attachment 2372

...and then scoot over to Google Maps to check out the address...

Attachment 2373

...and then see who the occupant is...

Attachment 2374

BINGO!

So on the basis of this evidence, it's reasonable to speculate that Townbeats/Buzinga is a discreet e-commerce project fronted by Kelly Stinson and operated from a house owned by Banners Broker Brand Ambassador Lorenzo Guarini. Their email address, kellyguarini@yahoo.ca, would suggest they are an item, if not man and wife. Perhaps they met and fell for each other while they were doing this money cycler.

But there's more...

If you wander round the Buzinga site looking for the identity of the corporation you'll be handing over your hard-earned $299 to in the hope they'll send you your deeply discounted Dr. Dre cans, you'll be out of luck. You'll have to wait until you're part-way through your PayPal transaction to find you're doing business with the anonymous "8136655 Canada Limited".

Spot the difference, did you? Thought not. The sixth digit should actually be 4, not 5. No wonder I couldn't find it, initially, when I searched the Canada corporations database.

Deliberate obfuscation? You might like to speculate; I couldn't possibly comment.

Anyway, were you to go ahead and order your headphones only to find they're faulty, following the instructions on their Returns and Refunds Policy, you would have to return them to:

Buzinga
RMA ####
Attention: buzinga
5 Carlow Court
Whitby, Ontario

And we all know by now the significance of that much-talked-about address, don't we?

So what does all this mean? Why are they selling these products themselves? To see if they can make money legitimately, selling actual, not virtual, products?

Well it only makes sense. They'll need something to fall back on when BB goes tits up?

I didn't see any cart to where you could actually purchase them.

Originally Posted by legalrep

Nobody really cares if BB is a scam or not. The little guy just wants to play a little poker like the big boys do on Wall Street. The little guys don't get invited to play with the big crooks on Wall street, so BB is letting them have that chance. I say back off and let adults make their own decisions on how to spend their money. Legal or not, it's our money. If I choose to play poker you have no right to be my babysitter. Real Scam should focus it's attention on protecting children and leave the adults alone to play whatever hand they choose. We don't need another parent.

Apparently YOU care enough to come here and actually cry about what we do.
See....if you listened to us.....we WOULD be protecting a child.

Originally Posted by Brenda

littleroundman, I've just responded. It seems my pm's aren't sending so we'll see if you get this one. Thanks

Nope, just checked, seems all my pm's are being stored ??

Got it in seconds, Brenda

Originally Posted by BB Defender

Well Beacon, you are getting the gist of it, except I wouldn't have put in $150 dollars I would have used the return from the first sold yellow panel to buy the second then the third from the the reurns of the second....
so my initial input would have been very small as stated $10 + $2.50 for the impressions in the scenario.

Doesnt matter if you put in $1 a hundred and fifty times or $150 dollars once or $12.50 twelve times.
The total in for ten yellows is $150.

Doesent matter if you take it out $120 twice or $240 once or $20 twelve times it is still $240 out
the total out is $240. Minus in $150 is $90 dollars difference
and again it doesnt matter if that is $9 ten times or $7.50 twelve times it is still $90 from somewhere else

Furthermore you explain that the $90 that bannersbroker pays out as profit on the twelve panels that were bought and sold comes from the new guys joining bannersbroker, yet there is no evidence from yourself that this is actually the case! its just your feelings that you are expressing.

No it is Banners Broker who claim it comes form advertising ! and that is for them to prove! just as they will have to prove it to some regulatiory authority eventually.
the point I made is it comes from somewhere else
That only other money i have any evidence of is the money paid in by all these people waiting for "movement" and the refunds asked for by people which werent returned. It isnt just my feelings. It is real people on the radio on the internet and in the newspapers. real names not fake journalist names and not someone who hides behind "the BB team" or some other anonymous moniker!

If I bought an $12.50 usb stick from a wholesaler and sold it on ebay for $20 within a month, then repeated the same cycle 12 times as before wouldn't there be a profit on trading of $90. Would you say that the profit is being paid from some pyramid scheme?

i would say the $90 profit came from other people on ebay. The difference is they are external to ebay! The $20 they pay you is their own money for the goods you sell and not part of their ebay subscription. i.e. the money is not coming from inside the same syatem. A Ponzi sheme (or scam), named after Carlo Ponzi, is a scheme whereby the promoter pays off early investors with moneys received from later investors. If a scheme involves this element, it is a Ponzi scheme (or scam). ebay are not paying you with money paid by investors in ebay. The money is coming directly from ebay customers and everyone knows that. In a Ponzi scheme people are misled into thinking that the money is coming from somewhere external e.g. advertisments.

no you wouldn't because its clear to see sense in that business. Yet when the product is impressions because you cant see it, you cant touch it, you cant eat it, you feel its fraud.

What is the difference between
"no actual measurable evidence of a fire breathing dragon"
and
"no actual fire breathing Dragon"?

Yet you cant see minutes you buy from a mobile network, you cant touch those minutes, you cant eat those minutes and yet you spend plenty of money buying and using those minutes.

and when you do you can time each call after that and if you buy ten minutes you will find that ten minutes of call time later you will be cut off. You can actually measure those minutes. But we see no actual advertisment of the millions and millions of ads supposedly paid for. Not a single ONE!

Impressions are a product used by advertisers and they pay good money to buy and use those impressions, google, facebook, youtube etc. are clear examples of how lucrative the sale of impressions are, yet when bannersbroker offer the opportunity for you to buy and sell impressions its a scam.

All advertisers on facebook Google etc. are AUDITED by a statutory body. Returns are put in to the tax man an advertising regulator or a companies office. wher are the returns for Banners Broker? Where are the adverts? Billions of impressions. On what site are they?
And the evidence is also there in the early days of BB they announced it as a cycler/doubler. No impressions or ads were involved then.

I don't know, it still says I have messages in storage??

I will go on record and say the Joe Duffy show was my handiwork, however there are other things that I'm not prepared to go public with. Love this forum and wish it the best and hope that you don't give up. Have to say though, I'm finding it a little difficult to progress with as a new member :(

SORRY THIS POST WAS FOR LITTLEROUNDMAN

Originally Posted by BB Defender

Well Beacon, you are getting the gist of it, except I wouldn't have put in $150 dollars I would have used the return from the first sold yellow panel to buy the second then the third from the the reurns of the second....
so my initial input would have been very small as stated $10 + $2.50 for the impressions in the scenario.

Furthermore you explain that the $90 that bannersbroker pays out as profit on the twelve panels that were bought and sold comes from the new guys joining bannersbroker, yet there is no evidence from yourself that this is actually the case! its just your feelings that you are expressing.

If I bought an $12.50 usb stick from a wholesaler and sold it on ebay for $20 within a month, then repeated the same cycle 12 times as before wouldn't there be a profit on trading of $90. Would you say that the profit is being paid from some pyramid scheme? no you wouldn't because its clear to see sense in that business. Yet when the product is impressions because you cant see it, you cant touch it, you cant eat it, you feel its fraud. Yet you cant see minutes you buy from a mobile network, you cant touch those minutes, you cant eat those minutes and yet you spend plenty of money buying and using those minutes.

Impressions are a product used by advertisers and they pay good money to buy and use those impressions, google, facebook, youtube etc. are clear examples of how lucrative the sale of impressions are, yet when bannersbroker offer the opportunity for you to buy and sell impressions its a scam.

Nice try as you scammers always try. The person would be getting an actual product in the usb stick. banners broker has absolutely no product. Just as andy bowdoin who did the exact same thing with ASD.

Originally Posted by Theseus

I've investigated a lot of scam retail sites and it's rare to see any as poor as Townbeats/Buzinga. Most scammers that are going down this route at least have the savvy to build something that passes for a genuine, legitimate retail site, you'd have to be incredibly gullible to be taken in by either of these.

The only conclusion I can draw is that the sites are either there purely so the likes of that muppet Alex on the Finchsells thread think the "Choice Network" actually exists, or the Guarinis are idiots.

My money is on the former.

It's to 'fool' governments that this is a legit business. ASD did this exact same thing with a closed loop advertising scam trying to say it was legitimate. The US government bitch slapped it as they knew that no one outside of that 'advertising loop' would ever see the sites on it. So how was anyone outside of the scam going to buy anything and create revenue for the 'business'? It was all just click, click, click, get paid (hopefully). They had the same kind of rallys etc.

Originally Posted by Joe_Shmoe

Mark Stokes

> Latest Announcement By the CEO in INDIA **



3) Banner Broker Version 2.6 released with new features, security & plans for longevity of the company.

Why do they need to keep worrying about the longevity of the company?
The creators of banners broker have designed an outstanding algorythm that can double any amount of money you put in, and amount of times.

Surely that would ensure the longevity in its own?

hmmmmmmm BS

Originally Posted by Poyol

I understand! It's to confuse potential investors - the more confusing the 'business' is the more likely it is that the investor won't understand it; ergo seeing through the holes in the business model.
And knowing what it really is.

Jason

It blows my mind how little the pro-BB crowd knows about basic economics, and particularly the law of competition.

To offer anything more than an industry standard return, you have to provide a service that is extraordinarily new or extraordinarily effective.

Banners Broker ticks neither box.

I could replicate their business model in 15 minutes and be more successful. How? By not handing over 90% of my profits to affiliates.

Think about it.

What does Banners Broker actually have that a competitor does not?

While the common answer is "a boat load of investors", this is actually a hindrance rather than a positive. A rival company can simply duplicate the business model and instead of giving away 90% of the profits to BB affiliates, he could give just 10 or 15% to a private investor (who can inject the exact same cash for a much lower margin). This gap in costs allows the competitor to offer a much better deal to all parties concerned - particularly advertisers. I am an advertiser. And trust me, we don't like paying double when we can go elsewhere for the same ads.

The whole premise that Banners Broker can buy up the web's banner inventory through volume of investment alone is nonsense. A rival company need only take the revolutionary step of NOT paying a bunch of freeloading affiliates an insane return, and suddenly Banners Broker is beaten out of the market because it can't compete with a streamlined business. Just like that.

The problem with being a company that offers a 300% return in a competitive space is that you are going to have rivals queueing up willing to take a 299% ROI, then a 298% ROI, and so on...

Eventually, the competition stabilises the market. And when that happens, you will be doing well to make 10% annually.

Originally Posted by Whip

Apparently YOU care enough to come here and actually cry about what we do.
See....if you listened to us.....we WOULD be protecting a child.

It frightens me to think that members of BB would come to a forum, a forum called REALSCAMS who is outlining in great detail, the problems with BB and those BB members think they are strong enough in their beliefs to debate the benefits of BB membership! If they have the neck to come here to do that, can you imagine how they are so easily able to recruit family / friends without conscience!

Originally Posted by Brenda

It frightens me to think that members of BB would come to a forum, a forum called REALSCAMS who is outlining in great detail, the problems with BB and those BB members think they are strong enough in their beliefs to debate the benefits of BB membership! If they have the neck to come here to do that, can you imagine how they are so easily able to recruit family / friends without conscience!

We welcome both sides here, it enables a good debate ensuring readers get both sides of the story.
After all it says at the top 'Is it or isn't it? You decide.'
That decision becomes clearer with their input!!!

Originally Posted by legalrep

Nobody really cares if BB is a scam or not. The little guy just wants to play a little poker like the big boys do on Wall Street. The little guys don't get invited to play with the big crooks on Wall street, so BB is letting them have that chance. I say back off and let adults make their own decisions on how to spend their money. Legal or not, it's our money. If I choose to play poker you have no right to be my babysitter. Real Scam should focus it's attention on protecting children and leave the adults alone to play whatever hand they choose. We don't need another parent.

I personally want to thank legalrep for publicly stating that BB is a Ponzi. All the BB shills and pimps claim BB is a genius business model and a successful business.

But if legalrep is an affiliate, you can bet legalrep's account has now been closed for speaking "ill" of BB. Don't you just love the irony!

Thanks for that Hypanor, good valuable info that i will pass on to the relevant nz agencies.......I contacted nz's own scambusters who stated this scam from overseas so weren't that interested......they definitely will be now
Kiwi

Originally Posted by Hypanor

Kiwi - another kiwi connection for you: Allan Mitchell of Tauranga

I stumbled across this sad video (posted on a UK affiliates facebook page, presumably Allans sponsor) - Cate and Allan BB Interview NZ Dec 2012 - YouTube

Poor Cate is a 60 year old solo mum, Allan donated a panel to her to get her started. Now 8 months and $290 of her own money later ("I used food money that I shouldn't have"), she has oodles of panels. She has also managed to recruit 15 of her friends (probably also seniors). They start talking numbers, she has 313 Yellow panels which gives her a return of $10 each every 3.5 weeks. A healthy income, I'm thinking.

But then they reveal that in 8 months, she has actually only taken $690 in cash out (still a good return for 8 months "clicking buttons for 10 minutes every 2 or 3 days"), the rest are just the numbers on the screen (surprise, surprise).

Allan almost got his account locked (they are watching you Allan) when he said she was "re-investing... well not investing blah..."

(Edit: Cate is obviously fairly gullible, she looks bewildered at Allans quip about the population exploding to 400,000 over summer. Anyone who knows the Mount, and lives there like Cate does, knows that's absurd. But the look on her face when he says it - almost like "he must be right, I better believe him")

A little bit about Allan:
Attachment 2378
Attachment 2379
Attachment 2380

Searches show he's a bit of a dabbler in all sorts of independent distributor pies, including a minor comment on NZ's own scambusters forum - ScamBusters New Zealand • View topic - Snake Oil (MPG-Caps) on TradeMe...

What I was trying to find though, was if he is the same Allan Mitchell (manager for Erdic (NZ) Ltd) who got fined $100,000 in 2008:
Media Releases | Commerce Commission

Closest I could find (as Erdic seems to have different ownership now) was this, but unfortunately the page doesn't actually exist anymore:
Attachment 2381

Having the double-l in his name, and being in Tauranga, its a pretty safe bet to say he's got serious (and not so serious) past form...

Originally Posted by Skyliner

We welcome both sides here, it enables a good debate ensuring readers get both sides of the story.
After all it says at the top 'Is it or isn't it? You decide.'
That decision becomes clearer with their input!!!

I agree. Much more interesting to have a genuine debate on the issues. Differing opinions are always going to be the case.

We have to remember that many of these people genuinely believe there is a product. I know personally of several people in it that hold this belief.

The regulars in this thread naturally have a bias towards this being a Ponzi. I personally welcome genuine challengers to this belief.

Sadly, the few challengers there have been tend to resort to the old opinions that we are 'naysayers', 'negative', 'dreamstealers', 'don't understand' etc.

Well, I'm a member of BB and am amazed at how gullible the majority of members are, they are totally blinkered (caused mainly by greed).

Take your rose tinted glasses off and look at this with wide open eyes AND, GET YOUR MONEY OUT ASAP, if you can.

You have little time left.

Thats my honest opinion, I'm 99% certain this is going to fold at sometime in the next 12 months, I'll be amazed if it's still around by mid 2013.

I reckon it will probably go in the next few weeks, but hey who knows.


I'd love to be proved wrong and find this is a "REAL" business with real advertising space being sold on the open market.

Originally Posted by hendyphilhendy

I agree. Much more interesting to have a genuine debate on the issues. Differing opinions are always going to be the case.

We have to remember that many of these people genuinely believe there is a product. I know personally of several people in it that hold this belief.

The regulars in this thread naturally have a bias towards this being a Ponzi. I personally welcome genuine challengers to this belief.

Sadly, the few challengers there have been tend to resort to the old opinions that we are 'naysayers', 'negative', 'dreamstealers', 'don't understand' etc.

Originally Posted by Brenda

I don't know, it still says I have messages in storage??

It's only $10 per day for storage.....That's Aussie dollars BTW.....
And if you late paying the bill we put them up for public auction