Thread: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam

Originally Posted by littleroundman

No "we" don't.

"We" know the identity of several of the nominated front men, but "we" have no real idea of who is really behind it and ESPECIALLY have no idea where the money ends up.

You are suggesting that Raj Lorenzo Chris and a mumber of others havent made any money from this and that mast of it is possibly in the hands of so unknown "Mr Big". To which I say tosh and piffle! Clearly we have plenty of evidence of involvement of several people and we also have evidence of people being given money and we also have evidence of the lifestyle and spending habits of certain people. It is nonsense to assume Raj Chris and others didnt make money out of this. Their active involvement is all over it and there are plenty of people who can prove they gave money to several top end players.

Is anyone disputing the fact those people are "linked" ? It's evidence, yes. Evidence that is of no practical value if, as many suspect, the offshore entities are no more than valueless shelf companies, designed to deceive the unwary into believing in the legitimacy of Banners Broker.

One does not need to prove where all the money is now or who has it. All one needs to show is certain people relieved certain amounts of money and also that people mis represented this as a fake business and are on record doing so. One does not have to account for every single wriongfull act or crime jusyt provide evidence of the ones people are accused of.

There has never been any doubt it has been "falsely represented as a business" or by whom.

None of the public faces have tried to hide their involvement, so no "proof" is necessary.

Whether you or I have a doubt isnt at issue. Whether evidence supports the accusations against them is the issue. And providing proof is necessary as people are assumed innocent in the absence of evidence to show they are guilty.

Banners Broker is not "Chris Smith" or "Kul Whatsisname"

Irrelevant. What is relevant is that Stepsys/Raj/Chris or whomsoever is accused of a crime or a breach of the law is shown by evidence to have broken that law. The level of damages are another issue.

Banners Broker is a co operative effort by hundreds, if not thousands of professional and semi professional fraudsters known collectively as the "HYIP ponzi industry"

You cant tale the "HYIO ponzi industry" to court! You can take a legal entity such as individuals or regisdered companies. You can take them whether or not they have assets but you cant take non people to court.

In fact, I wouldn't mind hazarding a guess that Smiffy and the other public faces of BB are way down on the list of who profited the most AND, they've had since October 2012 when BB made its' last "payouts" to cover their tracks, launder the money and move on to the next "big thing"

Again it isnt necessary to fine the "head" nor will cutting off the head necessarily kill the beast. But it is necessary to eventually start pursueing actions against some people.

Originally Posted by Ken Roklin

My source confirmed that Josun did walk away with a large sum of money, but would not confirm the $4 mil when pushed for the amount. How can you go to the police when you are running a Ponzi? The police in which country since it is an offshore corporation?

The only police that can really do anything are the police in the contry in which Kul is in ( or an outside police force with jurisdictional accepted enforceable powers of extradition)

Originally Posted by ribshaw

This is truly one of the biggest mysteries in the scam world. There are universal maxims such as "If it is too good to be true", and "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" that have stood true for am guessing like 2 years gives or takes. Yet so many of these people have been burned not just once, but on numerous programs. And to boot, they never come back and say I was ripped off, or the story was impossible, it is always the government or the bloggers. As if they are compulsive gamblers who either yearn for the action, or think there is some system that can overcome the vig.

I havecommentedon this before. It isnt a mystery in my view. Bob altemeyer indicated the same type of "follower" in relation to Right Wing Authoritarianism and fundamentalist religious groups. I would think from personal experience of some of them that they exhiobit the same "follower" mindset and the team leaders and senior scammers display the "leader" mindset. It is all in his book https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

In addition I have referred to the anatomy of scams
http://www.realscam.com/f8/banners-b...html#post57534
It isnt necessary to identify the Syndicate.

Originally Posted by Beacon

You are suggesting that Raj Lorenzo Chris and a mumber of others havent made any money from this and that mast of it is possibly in the hands of so unknown "Mr Big"

I'm sorry, I didn't know you have extra sensory perception and know what I am suggesting better than I do.

I am not suggesting anything.

We don't know and can't know unless and until someone gets inside the inner workings of Banners Broker where the money has ended up.

Originally Posted by Beacon

It is nonsense to assume Raj Chris and others didn't make money out of this.

Here we go again with the psychic phenomena.


That's my whole point.

PEOPLE made money out of this.

Who made what and their actual degree of involvement we don't know.

I could propose the theory that a gang of international terrorists paid Chris Smith handsomely to front a fraud to rise funds for training camps in the Ural Mountains and no one could prove me wrong.

IT'S A FRAUD.

Fraudsters lie, deceive, forge, exaggerate and deliberately lay false trails.

That's what they do.

Go and research the history of 'net based HYIP fraud over the past 20 years, then come back and tell me you think a handful of people in Canada put this thing together on their own and have the money in their hot little hands as we speak.

Originally Posted by Della Cate

Scamassasin007, you quoted the following about BB:-

There is just no way this could be occurring if they were actually buying and selling ads.
Which is Why we have called Chris out for their recent denial thjat BB was never Passive. We have a lot of video and marketing evidence Claimed if you joined BB:
☑It was PASSIVE
☑Compared To An Investment
☑Compared To Pensions
☑You did not have to recruit
☑No selling
☑BB sold for you on the Blind Network
☑Any Effort was OPTIONAL

Quite right S007. Here is the front page from one of the BB pimps from the south west of the UK. He used to have a bigger site, but he took idt down last April, all except this one page. There is an arrow at the bottom of the page (not shown) which, if you click on it, leads to the BB main site. This person was an active recruiter. He attended recruitment meetings in Bristol and actively encouraged others to go to them. But look at how he describes BB. Sounds pretty passive to me.....and this page is still out there to this day. (And as far as I know, this person is still involved, including with Bb Mobile, and has cranked up his Twitter account in accordance with the diktats of the BB hierarchy. So I would class him as a true believer...!)

They Must Be Joking To Think They Can Get Away With More Lies!

They Can't Change History!



Good Find Della. Re-posted on FB. Thanks!
Where to start... Even more naughty SEC words.. "RETURN" is an investment term. The whole ad is just asking for trouble.
"Completely ethical and legal in some 170 countries around the world" was a nice touch. If you are going to LIE might as well go all out!

Hell, why not through in retirement benefits and and a time share vacation condo get away.

Did I ever mention that Banners Broker is a SCAM?

Originally Posted by Beaqcon

And providing proof is necessary

In a court it is necessary, sure.

But, REALSCAM.com isn't a court, nor does it pretend to be anything other than what it is, a forum which allows members to speak out against what they perceive to be "scams" in an effort to assist readers to decide for themselves whether or not to risk their money.

In fact as the logo in the top left corner of the forum says quite clearly:



YOU DECIDE

There's no tie in with law enforcement, nor is there any claim to be an "official" site with connections to law enforcement.

IOW, it's consumers using their experience/s to warn consumers.

Originally Posted by littleroundman

In a court it is necessary, sure.


IOW, it's consumers using their experience/s to warn consumers.

It Is!

Banners Broker Is A SCAM!

Please Give A Round Of Applause To This Years Miss Scam 2014



*Credit To Dan Dare

Originally Posted by scamassassin007

Please Give A Round Of Applause To This Years Miss Scam 2014

*Credit To Dan Dare

Thank you very much.

Now I have that image burned on my brain and I'll never get it out.

Dan Dare is one very sick puppy.

Originally Posted by NikSam

Lately i counted at least 5 people here who all have multiple 'sources' , 'insiders' , and 'secret birds'.
Coming up with information who they failed to provide a slightest thing to back up with, most of it turned out to be not true.

Which brings a good point -
Why such 'insiders' running away from me as from fire, never came to people who verify things, never came to someone who busting scams on regular basis,
never came to PatrickPretty, BehindMLM, Finch and other pre-BB established Blogs.

But they all seem coming to people who was duped to believe in and invested in BannersBroker, and to nobody else.

Is there an army of those 'insiders' , if there is why BB is still free in the open , why those 'insiders' do not come to authorities ? :)

If they want a story to get out why they go to people , who are most limited to do exactly that and can only go and "bla" about it on forums ?

NikSam,
I can't speak for anybody else but I have a 'source' who (surprise, surprise) has not given me there real name but who used to work for Chris.He/she has given me photographic evidence to prove this which I have no intention of making public. This person is genuinely worried about there safety and I respect this.

The information this person has given me has been put on my blog and has been PROVED to be correct as time has passed. Most importantly, this person reads what I write and continues to give me information. This is all I care about.
The great thing about this forum is that we can debate the information and inbetween the spats and good spirited banter we eventually arrive at the truth?

Originally Posted by HARRISON

The great thing about this forum is that we can debate the information and inbetween the spats and good spirited banter we eventually arrive at the truth?

EXACTLY

Which is why the tag under the names of the admins says "Administrator" and not "hall monitor" or "fight breaker upper"

Originally Posted by NikSam

Lately i counted at least 5 people here who all have multiple 'sources' , 'insiders' , and 'secret birds'.
Coming up with information who they failed to provide a slightest thing to back up with, most of it turned out to be not true.

Which brings a good point -
Why such 'insiders' running away from me as from fire, never came to people who verify things, never came to someone who busting scams on regular basis,
never came to PatrickPretty, BehindMLM, Finch and other pre-BB established Blogs.

But they all seem coming to people who was duped to believe in and invested in BannersBroker, and to nobody else.

Is there an army of those 'insiders' , if there is why BB is still free in the open , why those 'insiders' do not come to authorities ? :)

If they want a story to get out why they go to people , who are most limited to do exactly that and can only go and "bla" about it on forums ?

I'm kind of a pre-established Banners Broker antagonist.

Originally Posted by Poyol

I'm kind of a pre-established Banners Broker antagonist.

You still believed and invested in BB and started busting it only after you realized you've been scammed.
It indicates at one point your critical reasoning and hunger for the facts was suppressed.

Originally Posted by NikSam

You still believed and invested in BB and started busting it only after you realized you've been scammed.
It indicates at one point your critical reasoning and hunger for the facts was suppressed.

Lets not stoop to blaming the victims here.

Philosophically two issues jump out to me.

1. Operational matters. From a police/regulation perspective someone broke a law or did something wrong. The "authorities" whether they be regulative enforcement, courts or whatever have to deal with a legal person ( a company or an actual human being) and act on them. It has been suggested that maybe they/we haven't identified the actual scale of the scam or who is really behind it. I would contend that it is quite probable we will never know the full extent and possible that some who benefited will remain unknown. Nevertheless is it of paramount importance that legal or societal forces ACT. I would also say along the lines of "justice delayed is justice denied" that the delay in action by authorities is already an injustice against victims but this in turn is complicated by both the reticence of victims to report it and by the jurisdictional issues in the next point. In short action should happen ASAP.

2. Legislative matters. As this scam is global and related to the internet there are elements which may be ultra vires with respect to one or more sovereign authorities. It is important then that jurisdictional matters be settled so that extradition, or admissibility of evidence allows for prosecution to happen. This also has implications for not alone the enforceability or judicial process but for the application on an equal basis. In short similar scams should be illegal in different countries and not allowable in some places while illegal in others and the police in one place should be able to apprehend those in another. This is a thorny political matter of criminal-jurisdiction/extradition/heavens for criminals as well as up to date legislation taking into account modern technology and should happen in parallel with enforcement.

Originally Posted by NikSam

You still believed and invested in BB and started busting it only after you realized you've been scammed.
It indicates at one point your critical reasoning and hunger for the facts was suppressed.

At one point.
Back before you joined Realscam - I was here already and had been on scam[.]com

I may have had a minor lapse in naivety; but that does not dismiss the fact that I have been at the forefront (amongst others) shining light on Banners Broker - and have done so quite well. I'm on of the people who got Irish newspapers involved - I have helped to educate Irish newspaper readers.

Yes, you've been here a while NikSam but so have others. You'll be surprised to know that other well-respected scam-busters were once victims.

So, as I have said already wind your neck in.

Jason

Originally Posted by NikSam

You still believed and invested in BB and started busting it only after you realized you've been scammed.
It indicates at one point your critical reasoning and hunger for the facts was suppressed.

Enough is enough! People coming here get confused with the senseless post attacks just to look for something wrong. Most in here have contributed to the warning new victims about BAnners Broker and hopefully made current BB affiliates see the light. Even your local businesses can go bad of fail. Yes, there are a lot of scams out there. Not everyone is aware of it and many have good intentions.

I do not blame anyone that joined Banners Broker of any scam if they joined with good intentions. I do blame those who have intentionally hidden they truth and the facts. I blame those who are still recruiting knowing there are serious issues with a program and refuse to let new prospects (VICTIMS) know before they join or get scammed out of their money.

I also want to bring up our main role as I se it and that is of awareness. I donlt think any of us have lar degrees so let;s not pretend we are attorneys. Discussion is one thing but the mindless debating only to stroke ones ego is getting losing sight of the main focus and that is to identify Banners Broker as a SCAM and to point out individuals who are scamming. The courts can sort of the EXACT details. When peoiple search for information, they need to see that there is something more than the lies and the propaganda that they are being told.

Many affiliates belong to private skype rooms and other BB forums where they are isolates from reality and the facts and pressured to listen to the excuses and lies. There are rumors and excuses being spread regarding excuses and we have proven that by posting many of the private comments. BB has a well oiled propaganda machine and they are very good at this. Sometimes sources have to be protected. For you to try to accuse others in here of doing wrong is ridiculous when you have contributed little but to cloud the issues.

YOu have been wrong many times. You recently claimed that BBI was in Belize. This is why you jumped to the conclusions so fast that the address was a church. Your goal was to prove you knew more than us and not to bring attention to Banners Broker which I thought was the main focus of this page.

IT IS VERY EASY TO BE AN ARMCHAIR GOOGLE SEARCH EXPERT ON EVERY TOPIC and you DO NOT HAVE THE FINAL WORD on every topic!

I intend to keep doing what many have done in this forum and to others and to raise awareness. People do not have time to read mindless back and forth petty opinions. Many simply want to see other points of view. Many BB affiliates have seen the light because of our posts. The search engines are no longer bombarded with a blitz of BB scam propaganda. If you google Banners Broker Scam or Banners broker ponzi scam, the facebook page many of us have worked hard to pos is number one and it gets a lot of hits. Youtube is no longer dominated with only pro-BB info.

Many affiliates have been helped to get their money back or to stop and take a second look. So before you criticize others who have given their time and worked hard to stop BB, maybe "GET OF YOUR HIGH HORSE" and come back to earth. Poyol, Tara,myself and many others have even spent our own time and money in this cause. Some here have the expense of a BLog to get the word out. Dan Dare spent his own money on the purchase of documents that you yourself would not do.

A simple google search also does not hold up in court and again does not make you the final authority on the facts. In my opinion, you are doing more to help Banners Broker than to stop them. As for Chris Smith, he might not be the computer wiz that he claims to be, but he does seem to be a master of deception. He has a history of starting shell companies and creating a legal smoke screen. this is one reason why he is many steps ahead of the authorities which have been slow to act.

My Final Point:

Did I Mention That:
Banners Broker Is A SCAM!

Originally Posted by littleroundman

In a court it is necessary, sure.

But, REALSCAM.com isn't a court, nor does it pretend to be anything other than what it is, a forum which allows members to speak out against what they perceive to be "scams" in an effort to assist readers to decide for themselves whether or not to risk their money.

In fact as the logo in the top left corner of the forum says quite clearly:



YOU DECIDE

There's no tie in with law enforcement, nor is there any claim to be an "official" site with connections to law enforcement.

IOW, it's consumers using their experience/s to warn consumers.

So you are saying Realscam is just a talking shop and should have no dealings whatsoever as to whether people are actually guilty of anything or should have to answer for that?

I beg to differ. When criminal acts happen it isn't an issue of people deciding for themselves whether or not they were abused. Action has to happen whether or not the victim thinks they are deciding for themselves whether they are a victim.

Im not saying RS are the police or should have any part in judging people clearly that is ridiculous. But RS, or its membership or the debate raised by them should have a role in commenting on and calling for action. In the same way Amnesty International or RSPCC may comment on human rights or child abuse but they also campaign for action against abusers and for laws to be enforced.

Originally Posted by littleroundman

I'm sorry, I didn't know you have extra sensory perception and know what I am suggesting better than I do.

I am not suggesting anything.

Yes you are! We can refer to what you actually posted
In response to "We do know the residency and whereabouts of several main players and their girlfriends." You stated

No "we" don't.

"We" know the identity of several of the nominated front men, but "we" have no real idea of who is really behind it and ESPECIALLY have no idea where the money ends up.

Please look up "only true scotsman" under "logical fallacy" if you are going to claim Raj Dixit is not a "real" main player or that Stepsys has not made money from this. ther is clear evidence presented to the Crewe court that Stepsys was given money as part of Banners Broker. There is clear evidence of Dixit being involved with several companies and the building in Toronto and people coming from abroad as part of adding image to the scam and of his involvement in the World tour in Canada Manchester, dublin and Portugal. One does not need to be psychic to accept all this evidence. call these people "front men" if you want but we KNOW about them! I don't see any reason why they should not be dealt with ASAP.

We don't know and can't know unless and until someone gets inside the inner workings of Banners Broker where the money has ended up.

So what? Either you are claiming
1. Someone else we don't know about was involved at a higher level or
2. whoever was involved we may never know

So what? We DO know to whom people gave some money. We dont have to prove where that ultimately money went. If I have a video of you stealing cash form my house it isnt necessary for me to find out where all those actual notes are today or if you also stole from other houses or you worked for a big gang that stole from others. All that is necessary is to show that money was stolen

Here we go again with the psychic phenomena.

No psychic phenomena involved. Raj had no other business I am aware of. If he jetted throughout Europe and back and forth to Canada stayed in five Star Irish Hotels booked dinner for over 900 people in Dublin, bought a 30,000 sq foot building ( and a Gym) in Toronto and handed out envelopes of cash. In doing all this he apparently had no other visible income. One does not have to be psychic to conclude he made money from Banners Broker.

That's my whole point.

PEOPLE made money out of this.

Who made what and their actual degree of involvement we don't know.

and again so what? We know people were given money and criminally misrepresented themselves and broke other laws too. Exactly how much money from how many people or where it all ended up isnt necessary to prove. It is sufficient to show that money was fraudulently taken and that money was laundered or illegally transferred. The tax man can come up with their own figure as to how much. In fact it is one of the few areas of law where you have to prove innocence.

I could propose the theory that a gang of international terrorists paid Chris Smith handsomely to front a fraud to rise funds for training camps in the Ural Mountains and no one could prove me wrong.

And again so what? We are not talking about fanciful theories about who else might be involved and for how much. We are discussing what we already know to be true because we have evidence for it already. We can of course speculate on how much might be involved and the tax man might well do that in which case it WOULD be for Raj and co. to prove the tax man wrong.

Go and research the history of 'net based HYIP fraud over the past 20 years, then come back and tell me you think a handful of people in Canada put this thing together on their own and have the money in their hot little hands as we speak.

Well now who is indulging in fantasy. You are now contradicting yourself! You are suggesting a pet theory that based on your experience and knowledge this is something involving a much broader level of people and for a larger amount of money than we have thus far considered. But you already
stated that any such pet theory is unprovable! But AGAIN Ill say "So what!" Whether you can or cant prove a "more people are involved theory" we certainly know based on easily obtainable evidence that certain people are involved and have defrauded other people.

You may think that there are "back men" worth waiting to identify I don't. But whatever we think the law has to act on criminality.

You, my fine pedantic friend, are an argumentative asshole.

Carry on

Originally Posted by littleroundman

You, my fine pedantic friend, are an argumentative asshole.

Carry on

And you seem to resort to ad hominem when you can't deal with the actual issue.

I was going to offer the prior exchange as evidence that people can differ and argue but dont have to stoop to personal attacks and can carry on with mutual respect and maintain their dignity but it appears you have single-handedly thwarted that aspiration.
Pity about that.
Please try dealing with the issues in future instead of attacking the person addressing them.

If I was dealing with the issue as in: Beacons' arrogant, nit picking and pedantic behaviour is an issue, I would use my admin privileges to ban you or give you some time out.

There's no rational way of dealing with the Beacon tactic of passive aggressive double entendre wordplay, so I long ago decided not to bother.

As I said: carry on.

HINT: If your aim is to be effective, rather than having a need to be "right" try engaging in a discussion without using weasel words such as "it seems" or "appears" without including the words "to ME"

We have posted a lot of Banners Broker current events recently.

Banners Broker is producing lies daily almost like a SCAM FACTORY.


The few recent announcements such as turning each other in with the new "Community Policy" , Backtracking on the "PASSIVE" and "INVESTING REMARKS" and all the other BS crap they are doing.

For those with a trigger happy GOOGLE search finger, how about holding BB to the fire instead of one-upping each other.

The nit picking only to boosts egos is getting OLD and the average reader, who we are supposedly trying to help, is only getting confused.

This nit picking and "one-upping" is only helping Chris more than it is helping the victims.




Did I Mention That:
Banners Broker Is A SCAM!

Moving Right Along...

FRESH NEWS ON THE LIQUIDATION...



People like Ian Parker and the other shills can't deny anything now!

Also,
I am confirming a source for additional news that should be coming today.

STAY TUNED!

ScamAssassin007,

Realscam is not just for information, it's a debate website; arguments are a side effect of this type of discussion.

It's all okay!

Jason

Originally Posted by Poyol

ScamAssassin007,

Realscam is not just for information, it's a debate website; arguments are a side effect of this type of discussion.

It's all okay!

Jason

Agreed, I am only asking to turn some of the energy and forensic talents to Banners Broker's Lies, deception, half-truths, and excuses.