Thread: Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam

Originally Posted by RobinHoodlumTJ

From personal experience I can tell you: though it's hard to find, have some confidence.

I mean not to imply you've made mistakes when I say this: mistakes are for learning, not for destroying confidence.

Terry's there to destroy the confidence of those who are truly skeptical, and strengthen the confidence those who are believers who have but a shadow of a doubt. I stopped following terry but I'm sure that if your question wasn't relevant, he WOULD have answered it.

my question was, who is Chris Smith? There is a reason why we are not supposed to know, just wonder how big the reason is?

Originally Posted by Brenda

my question was, who is Chris Smith? There is a reason why we are not supposed to know, just wonder how big the reason is?

As far as I can tell the reason is: the president is there to be the fall-guy. He is there to instill confidence and to answer this question for the believers yearning to continue believing: Why would someone put their reputation on the line if it wasn't real?
He doesn't have a reputation to protect because like Poyol said, he's most likely not named Chris smith.

But I agree. Who is "Chris smith" really?, Is a big question.

Originally Posted by Brenda

okosh, hang on a sec, enough of the quelle surprise, shock horror. Yep, apart from a near 'debt' experience with woman empowering woman a number of years ago, this is my only ponzi experience. I may not 'get it' when it comes to all the sofisticated techie stuff and to be honest am in awe of some of the posters here and how they manage to get info, but the forum might need me too? ( one question mark suffices) I am personally , quite happy to take credit for having BB questioned on one of Ireland's second most listened to radio program. Sometimes it's not about smarts but hearts.

With regard to Terry, let the record show, that whether or not the question asked was relevant, it was not answered.

Most info is found with a few clicks of the mouse and a little tool called Google......

And of ourse this forum needs and wants you

It may not have been the smartest question but did show that BB were not prepared to answer what should be, a most basic of concerns for new entrants, who am I giving my money to? All I want, is to create doubt, shake the confidence of a potential recruit, get them on the right side of the fence, simple.

I'll fight on my level and you on yours, hopefully the twain shall meet :)

A potential recruit will not stay away from BB based on who the admin is.....They will stay away because of what BB is....
There is more then enough proof that BB is just a ponzi scheme which has imploded....

And all levels of "fight" are of value....Some like to spend all day and night sending emails to the "ABC police"(FBI, SEC, IRS etc)......Me I like to play with and bash up shills and reff whores.....
It all has value....

Originally Posted by Brenda

my question was, who is Chris Smith? There is a reason why we are not supposed to know, just wonder how big the reason is?

Lets put it this way.....If you were running a criminal operation and you knew there was an army of people on various forums like realscam wanting to make you spend the next few years in Federal prison would you want your real name known??......

"Cris Smith" or whatever his real name is you'll find is not the brains behind BB.....He's just a front man....

Originally Posted by Brenda

my question was, who is Chris Smith? There is a reason why we are not supposed to know, just wonder how big the reason is?

Occams' Razor principle in a nutshell:

"when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better."

Originally Posted by RobinHoodlumTJ

Hey Steven. Hows that hunch/plan of yours going? I hope you know i plan on scanning for new photos till you let me know otherwise. So please let me know when youve got what you need!

If I find what I hope to find, you will all know immediately.

I'm looking for decent photos, preferably close ups and especially the nose and ears, but I also need shots of him with people around him, preferably of a similar race.

Someone thinks they've found a family link, I agree it's a possibility, so just following it through.

I personally also think there have been TWO chris smiths, one seems to be chubbier than the other, slighlty darker and his ears are normal, eg rounded at the top. The other "Chris" seems to have an unusual shaped ear, not as fat and a little lighter (skin tone).

Of course lighting, dieting and an accident could explain the differences, but just following a hunch.

Originally Posted by RobinHoodlumTJ

Thanks Baylee. I'll recommend that.

@anyone: what is one capable of doing with anothers passport. I'm aware of the dangers of a social security number falling into the wrong hands but aside from the physical passport falling into the wrong hands, what can be done with the information on it?

Well, I've had a look at my passport. What anyone looking at a copy would see is my passport number, full name, date of birth, place of birth, photograph, sample signature and that I am a British citizen. Probably the best form of ID we have, given that we don't have ID cards in the UK.

So in the wrong hands, there's a selection of very useful information there.

When I book a holiday, I sometimes have to provide a passport number, but nothing else. When I open a bank account, I might show my passport as a form of ID, but they don't keep it or take a copy - they just look at it.

I understand now that BB is also asking you to answer up to 5 security questions (mother's maiden name, first pet etc). Not unusual practice to answer 1 security question, I agree, but 5 seems a bit over the top to me.

I'm not saying anything bad will happen, of course. Just that I would exercise a degree of caution about my personal information, as no-one wants it to get in the wrong hands.

Still no payments made this time round. Payments are now 8 days late(at a minimum). And this does not include those who can't even make payment requests yet...

Originally Posted by EagleOne

LRM is right, and I am still surprised that some of you still don't get it. It is not who is running the program that is the issue, it is what the program says it will do that is the issue. Always has been and always will be.

I sort of agree with you, however the reason why I personally think it's worth being able to prove Smith is just a patsy isn't to convince you, LRM, or indeed anyone else here that he's not who or what they claim, but rather those who have invested in BB.

One of the major selling to points to the naive is this kind-hearted "maths genius" with a "masters degree in IT", who has set out to rid the world of poverty one banner ad at a time. Now, I know that's bs and you know it's bs, but many in BB consider it to be the gospel truth.

They don't care if what they're involved in is an unregulated investment or not, what they see is Mother Theresa reincarnated as a jolly black man, who also pays them lots of money. Prove that he's a fake and it casts doubt on everything else.

I'm not saying, as some seem to be, that it's the most crucial point element in proving that BB is a scam, there are more red flags than at a North Korean rally, but as Tesco say "every little helps"

Originally Posted by RobinHoodlumTJ

Thanks Baylee. I'll recommend that.

@anyone: what is one capable of doing with anothers passport. I'm aware of the dangers of a social security number falling into the wrong hands but aside from the physical passport falling into the wrong hands, what can be done with the information on it?

Make a copy using the data, stick someone else's picture on it, become that person, use it to apply for loans, credit cards etc. Did that really need explaining?

Originally Posted by Theseus

I sort of agree with you, however the reason why I personally think it's worth being able to prove Smith is just a patsy isn't to convince you, LRM, or indeed anyone else here that he's not who or what they claim, but rather those who have invested in BB.

Exactly. Its a case of knowing your audience. We have no interest in preaching to the choir.

Originally Posted by Theseus

I sort of agree with you, however the reason why I personally think it's worth being able to prove Smith is just a patsy isn't to convince you, LRM, or indeed anyone else here that he's not who or what they claim, but rather those who have invested in BB.

Why??....Is it not too late for those who have their money stuck in BB and can't get it out??.....
You don't think the effort should be for those who are thinking about joining??....

Originally Posted by okosh

Why??....Is it not too late for those who have their money stuck in BB and can't get it out??.....
You don't think the effort should be for those who are thinking about joining??....

I don't see you putting effort into that either, all you seem to do is tell everyone else they're doing it wrong.....

Originally Posted by noname999

Still no payments made this time round. Payments are now 8 days late(at a minimum). And this does not include those who can't even make payment requests yet...

I asked Mr.Stern why payments are delayed and the time goes by ,victims wait longer and longer for money.To me this is the core of the whole story with any ponzi scam.The best proof program being a ponzi are illogicaly delayed payments.
Now as you know I already wrote that in my case I wait some 30 hours till I get my money but I wanted to know why the money need even so many hours to seat on my account.I got answer that is not PayPal that needs all this hours to receive money from company but the company needs a day or 2 to manage all the 100 000 payments.The fact is ONCE released,money need few milisecond or nanosecond to reach an account.It's sent electronic and it moves with light speed.
Said that now please take a look what Mr.Stern wrote regarding this metter - " Once released, the time it takes to finalize is up to the processors, not BBI. BBI has no control over the time it takes to reach you " ...or BB sent money with coach and the horses need rest and feed...hm..but what if coach driver decides to take all the money and fly?...no control...still kind of truth,isn't it

Is the next webinar with paul on today? if so how long till it starts? (that is can someone fill me in on what time it is wherever the webinar is) I am keen to hear if anyone asks about not getting paid ...........lol

Also can someone 'in the know' tell me at what point can it be determined for sure when bb is over? what i mean is for those who followed scams such as zeek, at what point was it confirmed for the believers? I know this sounds like an obvious question but was it only when the police got involved?

Theseus, let me give you a little history lesson about my experience with 2 Ponzi's, the admins/leaders who run them, the pimps who promote them and the shills who claim they are being paid when they really aren't with the sole purpose of getting more people into the program.

Cas #1: I am going to take you back to 2004 and a program called PIPS. It was my first experience into the wonderful world of HYIP Ponzi programs on the Internet. The person who ran the show was a man by the name of Bryan Marsden,and he operated out of Malaysia. He was the genius behind PIPS. He put up a puffed up bio that had more holes in it than Swiss Cheese. Remember, this was my first exposure to Ponzi's. It took me a whole 5 minutes to debunk every claim in his bio and he was running a Ponzi. This was in March 2004.

After clearly showing he was a fake, there was no way he could generate the type of returns he was claiming, not one member of PIPS cared one whit about his bio and I had exposed him to be a fraud. In fact they defended him even more than before. I was called every name in the book and then some. I still continued to make posts thinking that I could prevent others from joining, especially those who were reading the forums where I was posting. The problem was it was the network that wasn't online that was drawing people into PIPS. They had never read the forums where I was posting as their friends and/or family members were getting them to join.

While the vast membership was not being paid, there were the paid shills to post saying "I got paid." This is real, the payment issues are just growing pains, there were server issues, etc, etc. Any of this sounding familiar yet? this went on from April through December of 2004. It wasn't until after April of 2005 that people finally started to be concerned with all the broken promises of things going to get better.

When the Malaysian authorities finally did act in Oct of 2005, at least 90% of all the members denied that he was running a Ponzi, he was innocent, it was a government conspiracy, the rich wanted to shut him down because he was helping the little guy finally get a hold of the brass ring. Even when he pled guily in his trial, at least 40% of his followers still believed he had been railroaded and was innocent. They still do to this day 8 years later.

Case #2: Back in 2007-2008 there was a program called ASD Cash Generator. It was run by 72-year old Andy Bowdoin, who was hailed as a visionary, astute businessman, a Christian, honest as the day is long, never had anything more than a parking ticket on his record.

I should point out that between my first introduction into HYIP Ponzi's and ASD, I had learned a lot because by this time I had helped expose over 50 of these HYIP Ponzi's. So by now I had a good idea of who all the players were and the roles they played. You have only been exposed to some of them, but there are far more that are involved in every Ponzi. I'll save that for another day.

While I did post on every forum or blog that pertained to ASD, I also knew that by only exposing Andy for who he really was would not be a good way to get the attention of people who were reading and thinking of joining. I am not saying that it doesn't do any good to expose them, but there are better ways to skin a cat.

ASD came along just after I had started Eagle Research Associates. In fact, ASD was our first Ponzi that our team collectively helped shut down under the Eagle umbrella. All of us had been active in exposing and reporting our findings to law enforcement agencies as individuals, but ASD was our first collective effort. Our biggest success was in exposing ASD for the Ponzi it was, and along the way we threw in exposing Andy of his previous criminal record, demonstrating he was not the visionary he claimed, and that many of his prior companies were either shut down voluntarily for not filing reports, or were shut down by the authorities for failure to file the mandatory reports.

When ASD was raided by the Secret Service in August 08, the forums and blogs were awash with support for Andy. Yep you guessed it, it was the evil government's fault, it was a conspiracy to keep the little guy down, Andy was as honest as the day is long, and this was after him being exposed to be a twice convicted felon. They were sending him cards, letters, brownies, cakes and telling him to fight to save ASD from the "evil" government. There were stories going around that the Secret Service had privately admitted that ASD was not a Ponzi, but they needed a way out to save face. Does Zeek Rewards come to mind here? It is ASD on steroids. My all-time favorite line was Andy was too "honest" to testify.

The ASD loyalists wrote letters to their Congressman, Attorney General, Solicitor General, the IG, sent tea bags to members of the media all in hopes of "saving" ASD and Andy. They even contemplated a march on Washington, DC. Now those were just a few of the many things that the members of ASD did after ASD was shut down. Anyone who dared say anything negative about ASD was threatened, and some were praying the Prosecutor would be placed on the rack, and they would take turns stretching him on the rack.

All the time all the major promoters/pimps of ASD had quietly moved on to their next Ponzi's de Jour: megalido, PTVPartne, GIN, and of course Zeek Rewards. Just like they always do. Some of those same people who were in ASD and Zeek are in Banners Broker. They are BB's staunchest supporters, and they also brought their huge downlines into BB just like they did in ASD.

The people who are in these programs could care less if the head is exposed. This is all about the money. Heck Profitable Sunrise is another example of the person running it being exposed to be a liar, and not one member cares a whit about it. Now I am sure there were people who didn't join because of this exposure, but on a scale of 1-10, I would say it was about a 2.5. It is about the money and only about the money.

Once you can prove it is impossible for the returns they claim people will make is a lie, it all begins to start crumbling for any new people to join. I would venture to say that right now there are more people who didn't join BB because of the claim to double your money in such a short period of time in a program they can't understand, the radio show and newspaper articles prevented more people from joining than if Chris Smith had been exposed.

Let me add, that I am not saying that it is wrong to expose Chris Smith, or anyone else in the leadership of BB. I am saying it is a smaller effect than you would think it would be. I have seen it in the over 40 some Ponzi's we have aided law enforcement agencies shut down since 2008.

When I wrote my book my sole purpose was to expose all the players involved, how they do it, and I used real world examples of Ponzi's to demonstrate it. Those who have bought it and read it have told me it saved them countless thousands of dollars by not falling to the pressure of their friends and family to join their great new investment oppportunity. That was, of course, making them tons of money for literally doing nothing. To me the key is stopping the peer pressure to join. Exposing the admin/leader is just gravy. Just my two cents worth.

Originally Posted by okosh

Why??....Is it not too late for those who have their money stuck in BB and can't get it out??.....
You don't think the effort should be for those who are thinking about joining??....

The people who are considering joining have been told that Mother Theresa (Chris Smith) is a really nice bloke and gives away free money*.

"*This money isn't actually free, y'know. There's a risk in life with everything ... EVERYTHING is a scam, like pensions!!!"

J

Originally Posted by kiwi chick nz

Is the next webinar with paul on today? if so how long till it starts? (that is can someone fill me in on what time it is wherever the webinar is) I am keen to hear if anyone asks about not getting paid ...........lol

Also can someone 'in the know' tell me at what point can it be determined for sure when bb is over? what i mean is for those who followed scams such as zeek, at what point was it confirmed for the believers? I know this sounds like an obvious question but was it only when the police got involved?

There isn't one. Many who were in ASD still think it will come back and it was wrong to have it shut down. A vast majority of Zeek members still think Zeek will come back and they didn't do anything wrong. There are the major pimps of both of these programs that are still claiming they were real companies, and the people in them believe them no matter what anyone else says.

Having said that, there are some who face reality and realize it is over when the Feds shut it down. The only problem is they just go to their next Ponzi de Jour: ProfitClicking, Profitable Sunrise and I'm sure there are many, many other Ponzi's they have already joined. Welcome to the wonderful world of Ponzi's.

Originally Posted by kiwi chick nz

Is the next webinar with paul on today? if so how long till it starts? (that is can someone fill me in on what time it is wherever the webinar is) I am keen to hear if anyone asks about not getting paid ...........lol

I think Paul normally does the webinar on a Thursday and it should be Chris on a Friday. Someone from BB might confirm.

Just found this on BB Facts and Updates, this is the cut and paste and I will post the screenshot.

It was posted approx 12 minutes ago.

Note to all who post on this page.

Anyone who posts negative comments will be deleted and some users may be banned.

BB has always paid out eventually folks,your payments will be paid in due course and there will be panel movement in the near future. They are changing the servers again to better their service which can only be for our benefit.

Please be patient and most importantly stay positive.

Have a wonderful day!

Screen shot of the above - it's today, 18th January 2013

BB 18th Dec.jpg

Changing the servers again...they can't even be bother to use new excuses now...

For the computer gurus on here, how long does it take to change servers? The payouts are now 8 days late. Could it take this long?

Originally Posted by noname999

For the computer gurus on here, how long does it take to change servers? The payouts are now 8 days late. Could it take this long?

If you're using VHDs and have a backup of the VHD, a few hours.
If you need to reload the whole server and restore an incremental backup ... a day and a half at most.

They really are getting lazy with their excuses then.

Originally Posted by EagleOne

The people who are in these programs could care less if the head is exposed. This is all about the money. Heck Profitable Sunrise is another example of the person running it being exposed to be a liar, and not one member cares a whit about it. Now I am sure there were people who didn't join because of this exposure, but on a scale of 1-10, I would say it was about a 2.5. It is about the money and only about the money.

Once you can prove it is impossible for the returns they claim people will make is a lie, it all begins to start crumbling for any new people to join. I would venture to say that right now there are more people who didn't join BB because of the claim to double your money in such a short period of time in a program they can't understand, the radio show and newspaper articles prevented more people from joining than if Chris Smith had been exposed.

Let me add, that I am not saying that it is wrong to expose Chris Smith, or anyone else in the leadership of BB. I am saying it is a smaller effect than you would think it would be. I have seen it in the over 40 some Ponzi's we have aided law enforcement agencies shut down since 2008.

When I wrote my book my sole purpose was to expose all the players involved, how they do it, and I used real world examples of Ponzi's to demonstrate it. Those who have bought it and read it have told me it saved them countless thousands of dollars by not falling to the pressure of their friends and family to join their great new investment oppportunity. That was, of course, making them tons of money for literally doing nothing. To me the key is stopping the peer pressure to join. Exposing the admin/leader is just gravy. Just my two cents worth.

The personally autographed copy of your book that I have on my desk is one of my favorite possessions....It motivates me and reminds me of the years spent fighting to make a difference in the forums like talkgold and MMG.........

I guess opinions on what is important changes the longer people do what we do.....Took me years to work out that discrediting the admin or the program to those who were members of the program is a waste of time and energy...

Clearly I've upset a few people over the last days in my effort to show what you are saying here....This was not my intention and I'm sorry for it