Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
LMAO LMAO:  0
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Ignorant Ignorant:  0
Moron Moron:  0
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 29 of 29

Thread: Back to Basics - Investment "Opportunities"

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    908
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Back to Basics - Investment "Opportunities"

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    I think in a few years, psychs will probably find there's a certain element of S & M involved in the HYIP ponzi "scene":

    "Than you, thank you, admin for only ripping me off for half my money. You really ARE an honest admin. Beat me, whip me and beat me some more. I LOVE when you hurt me"
    I think what bothers me the most in all MLMs (the recruiting aspects) is the "psychology" used to gain recruits and the cult like behavior of so many MLMs, especially the religious theme based MLMs. I posted extensively here about this: http://www.realscam.com/f9/mlms-cults-129/

    All MLM operations have one thing in common. At least monthly or biweekly, usually weekly meetings and rah rah phone calls of regional distributors, where as many people gather as the organization can muster. And what a party is being held - reminding you of a lively church or happy family meetings. A lot of cheering - success stories are being told - tales of how much money is and can be made, the product is being hyped - people stand up and give their testimonial (by the way - it is a very common practice to find some of those who give testimonials traveling from meeting to meeting to give them in whatever form they are needed…)

    And all of that - the atmosphere loaded with confidence, promises of a better future and health (for health realted products) creates a synergy effect, that is hard to resist - especially, when some of those around you are friends and neighbors, that you know and trust. People have an innate desire to feel needed, welcomed and like they belong. MLMs play right into these needs. They do it every single time and at every single opportunity. And then comes in play something that all the MLM marketers calculate and bank on - the power of suggestion.

    These events and procedures do not by accident resemble the way cult work and sort of brainwash their followers. People are getting conditioned, made immune against criticism - for they have witnessed people walk - who were in the wheelchair, or could move, where they couldn’t before! They listen to "testimonies" of people who were on the verge of or were bankrupt, living with a mountain of bills and debts, been laid off from their jobs and in financial collapse, hopeless and worn out, only to be saved by this marvelous MLM floportunity. If they then are Christians and believe in God and "sincerely" want to help you, how can they not be trusted? No true Christian would rip you off would they?

    How powerful and suggestive is all of this?

    What they don't know, is that there are professionals testimonial providers under them, they don’t realize, that the suggestive power of all of that makes them even believe that they feel better themselves. They feel the energy boost, short lived as it is, the power and control and the euphoria from taking a sip of the miracle fruit juice - so it all must be true. They don't see past the lies, past the phoniness of the product, past the no real proof of income claims, none of it. This is where the phrase the "drinking of the Kool Aid" (reminds me of Jim Jones) came into use.

    And they take this energy that they have been empowered with by those meetings and bring it in into their conversations with potential prospects, and if you believe in a thing and use it yourself it’s much easier to convince someone, as if you’re just selling something. After all, this product and this company "will change your life." So you sign up and buy these products, convinced that you will have no problem in selling not only the marvelous products but also the floportunity to your friends, co-workers and family.

    Are these convinced distributors/members soley to blame? No, not entirely. They are as much being deceived on so many levels as all potential prospects are and will be. It is the MLM system and it’s makers, that without morals, ethics or a conscience and with the full knowledge on the reality of the product and the compensation plan, that exploit the people under them.

    A combination of endorphins, mass suggestion, mass enthusiasm, the fillfulling of needs on a psychological and emotional level, paired with false and real testimonials (from those at the top- raking on the real monies) and the prospect of huge amounts of money coming your way along for better health or a better life and voilą, you have a new recruit!

    Then you are told how cheap it is to join! Only a small monthly fee and you are given the opportunity to then pay more fees monthly for advertising and a cookie cutter website, given to all the members. For additional monies you can buy expensive promo materials like fancy folders, containing a brochure, DVD, Video CD etc. to promote the product and cheap looking but over priced "business" cards. You are urged to buy literature on how to succeed, encouraged to visit quite expensive training sessions, motivational tapes and books often written and recorded by the owners/founders and the leaders or the shills they bring in to rah rah up the troops (think Lenny here) and last but not least to sign themselves and the people in their downline up for Automatic Shipping, so that they will receive their products automatically, regardless, whether they need it or not.

    In truth, while the phony, over hyped, over priced, worthless products are promoted and demonstrated and touted, they are merely the hook. The real focus and emphasis and purpose is to recruit new distributors and create a downline and then get those recruits to do the same. So go forth into the world and bring in more suckers, aaahhhhh.....recruits into the fold, brother!

    Now, you are really living the dream!

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Back to Basics - Investment "Opportunities"

    ALA - good post, one of my future questions was going to focus on the psychology of pyramids, but now no need :)
    P.S. I though the "drinking the Kool Aid" phrase was related to the cult-associated suicides where members would blindly drink Kool-Aid laced with some lethal drug (arsenic or cyanide or something) emphasising blind and misplaced faith in some phoney belief - i.e. perfectly describing many Ponzi/Pyamid members...

    Question for you all: What tactics do pyramids/ponzis use to extend their lifespan?

    Again, thanks for the posts.
    Regards


    Edit: Just googled Jim Jones and realised who he was, so I guess we were both right. Doh.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    908
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Back to Basics - Investment "Opportunities"

    What I have commonly seen, is that MLMs will frequently change (they call it improving) their comp plans, (even though they have claimed that their plans will never change, are written in stone and you are guaranteed this) the levels, and sometimes they will change or add additional products and or services. They may even bring in new heavy hitters to recruit and promote as other leaders move on. You may even see them restructuring those at the top who run the scams. No explaination is given as to why so and so left, just a huge amount of PR and hype about the new incoming player. They will claim this as being "expansion" when it is nothing more than to keep beating the same horse. They try to re-invent themselves with new terms and convince the members that this is all in their "plan" and evolution and growth to make them even more successful and give them more opportunities to move up the chain and earn more money. They will often encourage the members to join in on more conference/training calls and rah rah meetings. They may even start holding conventions and they advise the members to bring new recruits along with them and share the nightmare....er....I mean dream.

    They will most often start the pressure on the current members to squeeze them for results. They will make entire phone calls and presentations about not listeninng to reality.....errr...I mean the dreamstealers and the naysayers. They will try to separate you from even the advice of your family (again much like a cult) and tell you that that often the people who love you the most, are the very people who will keep you from reaching the stars. I actually have seen that specific phrase used. They will tell you as a member that there are no limitations on how far you can succeed with this new product or improved comp plan. They will use every means psychologically and emotionally to make you feel like it is you who are failing and not their crappy floportunity. They will insist that you have nothing to fear and that you step out of your comfort zone. In otjher words leave behind the last vestiges of any common sense and critical thinking that you may still have left. This often requires you to spend even more money on their wonderful floportunity. They will bring in more well paid "success coaches" to write about on their website and speak about the program and it's products and reassure you that they are truly "there for you". When you have run out of warm marks, they will promote lead generation programs and other means of advertising on the net. Again, all with a price. They will bring in these "coaches" to reveal their most revered, "secrects for sucess". They will encourage you to purchase even more products and to prove your belief in them. In otherwords, they milk the hell out of the members in several ways. They will even tell you how to manage your time and how many people to approach daily with the program. They will tout the wonders of successful MLMers (for some reason it is always Donald Trump and that phony lying little weasel ******* Robert Kiyosaki) and promise that you can be exactly like them. They will tell you to start a blog, use Twitter, use Facebook, put up ads everywhere, even the grocery store and the laundromat.

    Can you imagine anyone in the real world of business doing these things? Yet, this is exactly what all MLMs will encourage you to do. That and approach people in your church, your gym, your family reunions and more. I actually read on YTB's facebook of one guy (and he was serious) that he would be approaching people at a family member's funeral! Seriously! I amost fell outta my chair. He was not kidding either. These MLM's will often have your sponsor start hounding you on a weekly basis. They will post all kinds of psuedo religious and psycholigical quotes on "success' on their website. They may even start giving you "to do" lists. They will give you a re-fresher course on why theirproduct or service is the best one out there and never seen before and that you tryuly have the opportunity of a lifetime, that you do own your own business, your are the boss and in complete control, (even though you own nothing, have nothing viable that anyone with half a brain wants and you are being constantly manipulated to death) you will never need another "job" in your life, you have total security and a financially secure future at your fingertips and the world is really your tiny oyster.

    For example, I like to call Nu-Skin the MLM that just refuses to lay the hell down and die! lol This flopportunity has re-invented itself a half a dozen times, hit the skids and come back. They created seprate divisions that were touted like unique companies such as IDN, QIQ Connections, Big Planet, Pharmanex, Pharmanex Medical, and Photomax. They all went nowhere. Now, they are recycling back again to their old tried and true Skin Care and Anti Aging crap. If you cannot bring in at least 8 t 10 other members who will sell their asses off, you will never make any real money in this venture, but you will have a ton of product sitting in your garage to give Grandma and your Aunt for Christmas. Not only do you have to be concerned with your downline, but the uplines in this company are mostly just as weak, ever changing and tenuous. If Nuskin's product are so wonderful, prived correctly, and so unique, why are they not sold in retail establishments and only through MLM? Have they succeed? Since they went to Asia, you betcha. In fact where sales are lagging in Canada, North and Latin America, they are soaring in Asia. Nuskin (NUS) is a publicly traded company in the New York Stock Exchange, but this has nothing to do with the scamming and marketing tactics used by the network multi-level marketers just to get their downlines’ money. And if you read the contract the upline has the downline sign, it states there that Nuskin is not liable for whatever transaction these other parties agree to. A read of their financials and what their distrubutors actually earn and the turnover of distributors reveals much.

    From one former distributor who was at one time an actual leader:

    "I was been a Nu Skin distributor for years and discovered that it takes about 999 people before you find one who will succeed, which translates to one-tenth-of-a-percent! NOT a good margin.
    Most of us leaders either started very early and we had money, as without these two there is NO WAY you can make it in MLM and that includes Nu Skin. Nu Skin as a company is good….for the owners NOT for the distributors as most of them lose. Read Jon Taylors book Nu Skin’s Naughty numbers to learn the truth. Do NOT join Nu Skin if you are looking for a home based business and you are not able to ”buy” leaders to join and ”premarket” new markets as that is what it takes to succeed…really it does. It even took me years to see the deceptive reality of the math. So, for every successful Hawaiian Blue Diamond Nu Skin distributor it took thousands to lose their hide! Don’t take my word for it, just look it up. The truth about MLM, or multi-level marketing, based on solid research and world-wide feedback
    This whole MLM sales deal is based on the LDS method of prosylation…it is a numbers game. The LDS cult sells you a one way ticket to the illusionary ”Kingdom of Heaven” while Nu Skin sells you a one way ticket to the land of Unobtainable Wealth in the Land of Greed… Do you own research and if you can find fault with what I say I love to hear it because I even bet for a thousand bucks that you can not find better success rates than 0.01% Stay away!"

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    19,835
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Back to Basics - Investment "Opportunities"

    Quote Originally Posted by GlimDropper
    But the most important factor in a program's success are the promoters, people with long e-mail lists who move from program to program bringing their "downlines" with them. As time has gone on the more important "referral commissions" have become. These programs survive always and only by attracting fresh cash so it makes sense that the biggest payoffs are to the best recruiters. Club Asteria is a perfect example, someone with a maxed out "Asterio balance" can earn no more than $400/month (and actually rather less than that) but there's a commission of near 50% on all monthly dues paid in by people you directly recruit. This is before you add in the elaborate "comp plan" for any network you build.
    I would go even further.

    I firmly believe that Patrick Prettys' "steroidal puppeteers" are largely responsible for, and, in fact, drive the "next big thing" phenomena.

    I am in no doubt there exists on todays' 'net a vast, loosely co ordinated but highly effective underground HYIP industry sub culture.

    It is a relatively simple matter for puppetmasters to anoint a "next big thing" and then mobilize vast numbers of shills tasked with making it so.

    Does anyone really believe Andy Bowdoin, Charis Johnson, Bryan Marsden and the CEP boys somehow became overnight geniuses or that their programs were any different than a squillion others ???
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •