Thread: Ponzi scheme shakes Africa's Benin

With the work I do, wil's answers just scream "I'm an American!" I doubt if he's ever considered that even beyond the education issues plus that have already been pointed out, culturally, these people are unable to think that someone they trust (a family member, the government) would scam them.

Cultural lesson for the day - cultures can be defined as being "collectivist" or "individualist".

''Collectivist'' societies share these traits:
*Focus is on the relationships of the family or group
*Dependence on the group for problem solving
*Dependence on others is encouraged
*Treat others according to position in society
*Differences are mediated
*Use ''indirect'' communication

''Individualist'' societies share these traits
*Focus is on the individual
*Problems are solved by the individual
*Self-reliance is valued
*Treat others as equals
*Differences are confronted
*Use ''direct'' communication

In a study done by Geert Hofstede in the late 60s/early 70s, countries were rated by several cultural dimensions, one of them being individualism. Guess who tops the chart? The US. West Africa (Benin not being rated by itself) rates very low.

Look at what has been said about those who lost savings:

Television news shows showed Mr Yayi and other top government officials posing alongside the managers of the investment firm.

"We saw them on television," said Pierre Dossa, a mechanic who lost his savings. "How could we not believe in it?"

I.C.C., while ensnaring its victims, multiplied its good works, helping to finance health clinics, feeding orphanages, digging wells and making donations to the evangelical Christian groups that are important here.

“I just wanted to help my family.”

breadwinners have extended families counting on them

Menton was referred to the company by friends who had already invested

So these people are only doing what is culturally acceptable for them. Maybe not by American standards, but by Benin standards, and needs to be looked at in that context.

Originally Posted by WishfulThinking

The members of this forum condemn the ponzi scheme in Benin and would like to see all its owners, promoters and all those who helped its perpetration in jail and the victims compensated .

DOH, have I ever said otherwise?

Face it, if you fellas don't like me. If I said the sky was blue, you'd disagree.

Savedtrash... not true at night it is black dotted with stars.

Wishful thinking... actually it isn't blue...it is all colors other than blue, blue is the color reflected and what your eye sees.

Pilot... no such luck, don't you know how a prism works, you pissant know nothing, where are my tums?

Blue wolf... yeah? well what about cloudy days?

Serioiusly... typical, I guess you've never seen a sunrise or sunset, you should get up earlier...

Originally Posted by Blue Wolf

Wil, you didn't even answer my question.Doesn't that prove to you that ponzi schemes can work without people (i.e. the victims) being really greedy?

I did answer your question, I posted where it said Madoff promised 18-20% returns. Which answered your own question.

Originally Posted by iamwil

I did answer your question, I posted where it said Madoff promised 18-20% returns. Which answered your own question.

Except you answered the question with more lies.

Here's a tip for you, "iamwil"

when you're researching facts to back an argument, make sure you don't just choose the first results you find which support that argument.

To quote a "real" financial analyst:

Madoff’s annual returns over the past five years ranged from 8.5 percent to 11.7 percent, and included “several months” of negative results, the letter said. While the “split-strike” strategy Madoff purported to use would have produced returns of about 5 percent annually, Notz Stucki was led to believe that the results were boosted by proprietary models predicting short-term market movements and sophisticated execution systems, the firm said in the letter.

In fact, the same Swiss Money managing company, Notz, Stucki & Cie. previously had reported Madoff Investments offered “dull but steady” returns.

Tell us "iamwil" can you even lie straight in bed ????

Originally Posted by iamwil

Face it, if you fellas don't like me. If I said the sky was blue, you'd disagree.

No, Wil, we don't have any respect for you. You won't answer the questions, you spout off tons of bullshit and then when called out on it, you abandon the threads. I've asked you several questions and even posted them again. You're a coward in the highest degree. And a blowhard.

Originally Posted by iamwil

Face it, if you fellas don't like me. If I said the sky was blue, you'd disagree.

Don't flatter yourself that people care enough to bother "not liking you"

Let's try an experiment.

You tell the truth for once or state a "fact", and we'll see just how people react.

Originally Posted by iamwil

Serioiusly... typical, I guess you've never seen a sunrise or sunset, you should get up earlier...

That makes no sense.

Originally Posted by Seriously?

That makes no sense.

Much like all of his posts. lol Your post however, was factual, truthful, insightful and addresses the issue specifically and was backed up with a very good study. Everyone's posts on this subject have flown right over Willy's head though. The only thing that matters to him is his own ignorant, incorrect opinion. Also a recurring scenario. When the truth and the facts are clealry and succinctly presented by every other poster here, his reaction is always the same. Lie, deflect, backpeddle, obfuscate, whine and flee.

Originally Posted by littleroundman

Here's a tip for you

and a tip for you... learn to read..

Did I say what the actual returns were?

Madoff promised 18-20%, he didn't provide it.

But he kept promising it.

Why would someone stay with the lower performing portfolio...because of the promise of higher returns.

oh my.


I suppose you all can dance in the streets...

I'll go on a sabatical from this site...it'll be quiet I know since I have such a following, since you are all so enamoured with my life, that the majority of posts are about me.

And quite a few will now be about me leaving...you just can't help yourselves...

tis like 15 year olds on a date...nothing to talk about...

you all don't get it....one lawyer can't make any money...there needs to be two in town so they can sue each other...

with out opposition there is no discussion...

Originally Posted by iamwil

I suppose you all can dance in the streets...

Originally Posted by iamwil

with out opposition there is no discussion...

Actually, without intelligence, critical thinking, honesty, rational/logical thought, research and education, putting pre-conceived notions aside, being informed and not ignorant, being able to learn, staying on the subject matter, there is no valuable or meaningful discussion.

Originally Posted by iamwil

Madoff promised 18-20%, he didn't provide it.

But he kept promising it.

Can you show me proof that Madoff promised everybody 18-20% per year?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Blue Wolf

Can you show me proof that Madoff promised everybody 18-20% per year?

Thanks.

I can only put it down to some sort of perverse financial envy of those fortunate enough to actually have money to invest that keeps "iamwil" persisting with his claims.

There have been countless books, programs and commentaries on the "brilliance" of Madoffs' scheme in that he DIDN'T promise or deliver such outrageous returns.

It's the very reason the Madoff scheme was able to fool so many outwardly conservative investors for such a long period.

Still, it IS "iamwil" making the claims, so it's not like it's anyone with credibility.

Originally Posted by iamwil

I suppose you all can dance in the streets...

I'll go on a sabatical from this site...it'll be quiet I know since I have such a following, since you are all so enamoured with my life, that the majority of posts are about me.

And quite a few will now be about me leaving...you just can't help yourselves...

tis like 15 year olds on a date...nothing to talk about...

you all don't get it....one lawyer can't make any money...there needs to be two in town so they can sue each other...

with out opposition there is no discussion...

See Wil, you will not really leave. You'll continue to read the posts but you're a coward and I stated that before. You cannot and will not back up anything you say, so now you leave in a huff. Remember my comment about a cornered rat? Describes you perfectly. And a whiner, I almost forgot that.

Should I ever be enamored with your life, I seriously hope someone shoots me in the head.

Originally Posted by littleroundman

There have been countless books, programs and commentaries on the "brilliance" of Madoffs' scheme in that he DIDN'T promise or deliver such outrageous returns.

It's the very reason the Madoff scheme was able to fool so many outwardly conservative investors for such a long period.

True.

Who would have thought he was running a ponzi scheme with such low returns? That's not what I would expect a "normal" ponzi scheme to look like. Very sneaky. And very sickening.

Of course, Wil doesn't care about these facts, because he would rather blame the "greedy" victims. That way, he doesn't have to admit that he's wrong.

Oh, and I just love this comment that he left right before he scurried away:

Originally Posted by iamwil

I'll go on a sabatical from this site...it'll be quiet I know since I have such a following, since you are all so enamoured with my life, that the majority of posts are about me.

Yeah, right. Nobody would have even mentioned him on this thread if he hadn't come here in the first place, spreading around more nonsense and misinformation . . . as usual.

And trying to get him to answer a question is like trying to fill up a bucket with water that has a bunch of holes in the bottom of it.

It's a waste of time.

Then he runs away like a frightened little rabbit looking for a hole to jump into. It's like he's afraid of the truth.

Perhaps Wil should consider a career in politics. He would fit in perfectly, when you think about it.

Most of our politicians don't seem to be interested in honesty and integrity. And neither does he.

Originally Posted by iamwil

I suppose you all can dance in the streets...

I'll go on a sabatical from this site...it'll be quiet I know since I have such a following, since you are all so enamoured with my life, that the majority of posts are about me.

And quite a few will now be about me leaving...you just can't help yourselves...

tis like 15 year olds on a date...nothing to talk about...

you all don't get it....one lawyer can't make any money...there needs to be two in town so they can sue each other...

with out opposition there is no discussion...

Wil, someone told me that you are/were in AU. Is that why your IP during this time never changed from your home? I didn't realize that was possible. You always claimed I called you a liar. Well, now I am.