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Thread: The Great Global Warming Swindle

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  1. #1
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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
    Global warming IS real. The temperature has been going up over the last century! You are in denial
    the issue you have to accept is that temperature is increasing. If you don't accept that then we can't discuss whether this warming is caused by humans or whether warming is something to worry about.



    The Holocene maximum happened at different periods depending wher on the planet you might have been. the main increases were neat the poles ~ increases of up to 4 °C. At Mid latitudes it was almost zero
    In one study
    Koshkarova, V.L.; Koshkarov, A.D. (2004). "Regional signatures of changing landscape and climate of northern central Siberia in the Holocene". Russian Geology and Geophysics 45 (6): 672–685.

    In Siberia regions it was from 3 to 9 degrees in winter and 2 to 6 in Summer. That is only that study and in that region.

    Also it followed the Last ICE AGE so you might expect things to be a bit warmer. Now if we are going into another Ice Age and you don't think that is a threat then you have a problem. Ironically global warming can cause localised cooling e.g. shift the gulf Stream and cause Mid Latitude Europe to freeze.

    While there do not appear to have been significant Holocene temperature changes at most low latitude sites, other climate changes have been reported. These include significantly wetter conditions in Africa, Australia and Japan, and desert-like conditions in the Midwestern United States. Areas around the Amazon in South America show temperature increases and drier conditions.
    Francis E. Mayle, David J. Beerling, William D. Gosling, Mark B. Bush (2004). "Responses of Amazonian ecosystems to climatic and atmospheric carbon dioxide changes since the Last Glacial Maximum". Philosophical Transactions: Biological Sciences 359 (1443): 499–514.

    Bioth sources cited in Wikipedia article on Holocence Maximum Holocene climatic optimum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    More like 950-1250
    More like 300 not 500 years long as you claim.
    Again relates to the North Atlantic not the entire globe.
    Despite substantial uncertainties, especially for the period prior to 1600 when data are scarce, the warmest period of the last 2,000 years prior to the 20th century very likely occurred between 950 and 1100, but temperatures were probably between 0.1 °C and 0.2 °C below the 1961 to 1990 mean and significantly below the level shown by instrumental data after 1980 ~
    Solomon, Susan Snell; Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (2007). "6.6 The Last 2,000 Years". Climate change 2007: the physical science basis: contribution of Working Group I to the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

    Medieval Warm Period - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    globally the Medieval Warm Period was cooler than recent global temperatures

    Mann, M. E.; Zhang, Z.; Rutherford, S.; Bradley, R. S.; Hughes, M. K.; Shindell, D.; Ammann, C.; Faluvegi, G. et al. (2009). "Global Signatures and Dynamical Origins of the Little Ice Age and Medieval Climate Anomaly". Science 326 (5957): 1256–60.



    Not true see above we are warmer than the Medieval warming period
    The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Third Assessment Report considered the timing and areas affected by the LIA suggested largely independent regional climate changes, rather than a globally synchronous increased glaciation. At most there was modest cooling of the Northern Hemisphere during the period.
    "Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis". UNEP/GRID-Arendal.



    It is nonsense to contend that war, famine , disease, and in particular mass migration was caused by climate change. Quite clearly cultural religious and political changes in Europe had a much more significant effect. People did not go to the Americas just because it was warmer there ( which by the way it wasn't).



    Your percentage is out by a factor of at least a million! It is at least tens of percents.

    Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center (CDIAC) - Frequently Asked Questions

    A. Anthropogenic CO2 comes from fossil fuel combustion, changes in land use (e.g., forest clearing), and cement manufacture. Houghton and Hackler have estimated land-use changes from 1850-2000, so it is convenient to use 1850 as our starting point for the following discussion. Atmospheric CO2 concentrations had not changed appreciably over the preceding 850 years (IPCC; The Scientific Basis) so it may be safely assumed that they would not have changed appreciably in the 150 years from 1850 to 2000 in the absence of human intervention.

    In the following calculations, we will express atmospheric concentrations of CO2 in units of parts per million by volume (ppmv). Each ppmv represents 2.13 X1015 grams, or 2.13 petagrams of carbon (PgC) in the atmosphere. According to Houghton and Hackler, land-use changes from 1850-2000 resulted in a net transfer of 154 PgC to the atmosphere. During that same period, 282 PgC were released by combustion of fossil fuels, and 5.5 additional PgC were released to the atmosphere from cement manufacture. This adds up to 154 + 282 + 5.5 = 441.5 PgC, of which 282/444.1 = 64% is due to fossil-fuel combustion.

    Atmospheric CO2 concentrations rose from 288 ppmv in 1850 to 369.5 ppmv in 2000, for an increase of 81.5 ppmv, or 174 PgC. In other words, about 40% (174/441.5) of the additional carbon has remained in the atmosphere, while the remaining 60% has been transferred to the oceans and terrestrial biosphere.

    The 369.5 ppmv of carbon in the atmosphere, in the form of CO2, translates into 787 PgC, of which 174 PgC has been added since 1850. From the second paragraph above, we see that 64% of that 174 PgC, or 111 PgC, can be attributed to fossil-fuel combustion. This represents about 14% (111/787) of the carbon in the atmosphere in the form of CO2.


    Source?


    Red herring.
    We are not discussing the "ideal" temperature. the issues are
    1. Is the Earth getting warmer @~ the evidence says it is
    2. do humans contribute to this ~ evidence suggests yes
    3. Can or should humans try to change their effect ~ evidence suggests they can and ethics suggests they should if they can
    4. Nobody who wants to prevent global warming has suggested mass genocide as a solution!



    Which pope? You are just making this up as you go along! The wholw Witchcraft thing was a Central and eastern european thing and more Protestant in nature than Roman Catholic. It was Protestants who transported Witchfinding to the americas. It was German inquisitor Heinrich Kramer, who pushed Pope Innocent VIII to write a Bull in order for Kramer to prosecute Witches in Germany. The Pope did not claim witches were responsible for bad weather. Kramer himself claimed it in a later publication, Malleus Maleficarum



    This is also untrue! Over about 500 years of the Inquisitions ( the main ones being the Spanish and Portuguese which had little Papal input and were like Kramer's more related to local Kings) ther were about 20-30,000 executions. Most of these on the Iberian Peninsula and most were Jews not witches.

    Witch-hunt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    However, there was the beginnings of a witch-hunt as early as the 14th century but this tended to be in areas that later became Protestant, like Switzerland, Northern Germany and the South of France.

    The manuals of the Roman Catholic Inquisition remained highly sceptical of the witch craze and of witch accusations, although there was sometimes an overlap between accusations of heresy and of witchcraft, particularly when, in the 13th century, the newly-formed Inquisition was commissioned to deal with the Manichaean Cathars of Southern France, whose teachings had an admixture of witchcraft and magic, and who had embarked upon campaigns of murder against their fellow citizens in France, not excluding prelates and ambassadors and whose ally, the Cathar King Pedro II of Aragon, later invaded Southern France with an army of 50,000.


    In fact the people in charge of the US have been almost entirely ( with the exception of one black and on catholic) White Anglo Saxon Protestants. Indeed this group are fairly much the same as those in the US who oppose the concept of global warming. The "gun rights" Tea Party Libertarians and fundamentalist Christians have more in common with Witch finders than any modern pope. The Pope does not make laws for the world. Although it is true the Vatican has encouraged countries not to have abortion it is miles away from the Authoritarianism of the Right wing in America for example.

    So both your mathematics and your social analysis are misinformed.
    You are dead wrong again, listen to the these climatologist talk about the Medieval warm period, it was not only confirmed in the Greenland ice sheet, but also in the Antartic Ice sheet as well, clearly proving that the medieval warm period was indeed global, because it also shows up in all the tree ring data. Only the corrupted research of one single Marxist committed lying Michael Mann's hocky stick graph even suggests there was no medieval warm period, but even in his graph the margin for error shows a 500 year long medieval warm period that was 1.5 degrees warmer than today.



    The Antarctic Ice core data taken from different locations in Antarctica clearly shows a 7000 year long Holocene maximum and another warm period that was 10's of degrees warmer than the Holocene maximum that lasted for 36,000 years; that ended about 98,000 years ago.

    Al%20Gores%20Inconvenient%20Graph%20Challenged.JPG

  2. #2
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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Fromthehood
    Your argument is based on point 4 which isnt supported
    India Steps Up Climate Change Efforts | Worldwatch Institute
    May 17, 2013
    two weeks ago, in a surprising reversal, India agreed to quantify its efforts to mitigate climate change. Ramesh said India would reduce emissions by "a broadly indicative number," although the reductions would still not be bound by international law.
    At the Major Economies Forum on Energy and Climate in Italy in July, India joined 16 other countries in declaring that the increase in global average temperature above pre-industrial levels should not exceed 2 degrees Celsius. This goal remains somewhat controversial, however, as there is still no clear agreement on how countries will share the burden for reducing global emissions.

    I mean put it this way Russia and china have nukes . Should we therefore say "well lets not try to reduce the number of nukes in the world" and not bother encouraging the US China Russia etc. deescalating?

    Should we not encourage countries which have public beheadings to stop having them because they already have them and claim it is "traditional" ?

    Let me take the same argument into psychology or business and economucs
    Ever heard of The Prisoner's Dilemma?
    Prisoner's dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Economics focus: Playing games with the planet | The Economist
    The paper cites a study on the subject by an American academic, Robert Axelrod, which argues that the most successful strategy when the game is repeated has three elements: first, players should start out by co-operating; second, they should deter betrayals by punishing the transgressor in the next round; and third, they should not bear grudges but instead should start co-operating with treacherous players again after meting out the appropriate punishment. The result of this strategy can be sustained co-operation rather than a cycle of recrimination.

    Mr Liebreich believes that all this holds lessons for the world's climate negotiators
    So whether ethically based or not, it can be scientifically shown that co operation for mutual interest is a better strategy than self - interest. I think this reasoning is attractive to both the Taoist and Confucian elements of the Chinese society.

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
    Fromthehood
    Your argument is based on point 4 which isnt supported
    India Steps Up Climate Change Efforts | Worldwatch Institute


    At the Major Economies Forum on Energy and Climate in Italy in July, India joined 16 other countries in declaring that the increase in global average temperature above pre-industrial levels should not exceed 2 degrees Celsius. This goal remains somewhat controversial, however, as there is still no clear agreement on how countries will share the burden for reducing global emissions.

    I mean put it this way Russia and china have nukes . Should we therefore say "well lets not try to reduce the number of nukes in the world" and not bother encouraging the US China Russia etc. deescalating?

    Should we not encourage countries which have public beheadings to stop having them because they already have them and claim it is "traditional" ?

    Let me take the same argument into psychology or business and economucs
    Ever heard of The Prisoner's Dilemma?
    Prisoner's dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Economics focus: Playing games with the planet | The Economist


    So whether ethically based or not, it can be scientifically shown that co operation for mutual interest is a better strategy than self - interest. I think this reasoning is attractive to both the Taoist and Confucian elements of the Chinese society.



    80% of today's Climatologist can't even agree on what the ideal temperature of the Earth should be.

    At the beginning of the Little Ice age in 1300 A.D. the winters started getting longer as the summers become shorter, causing wide spread crop failures. Which lead to famine, pestilence and plagues. By 1486 the Pope Blamed witches for global cooling, and for century's 10's of thousands of witches were tortured, killed and burned at the stake. And 500 years later our leaders come up with something even more stupid, Man Made Global Warming, except this time you and I are the witches, and it is you and I they will torture, kill and burn at the steak. So what are you going to do, let them torture, kill and burn you and your family at the stake in the name of co-operation, or are you going to defend yourself?

    Amazing after 500 years the same frauds in charge of the world then are still in charge today. And as the masses become more dumbed down with the Junk Science of Man Made Global Warming, when the mass genocide of 7 billion people begin, no one will lift a finger to stop it; all in the name of co-operation.


  4. #4
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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund129 View Post
    [B]President Obama has turned America into a 3rd world banana republic by skyrocketing taxes, government confiscation of Private property using Obamacare to confiscate Privately owned Hospitals and clinics. Under Obamacare private companys and private doctors are not permitted to own hospitals and (or) clinics, only the government can. (Can you Spell Marxism? Can you spell Communism?)
    Obama has replaced Clinton as the latest scapegoat for right wing Liberatarians.
    The fact that Bushes "war" on Terror racked up huge debt and gave out huge contracts to pals of the Military Industrial complex seems to be entirely ignored.

    The three best charts on how Clinton’s surpluses became Bush and Obama’s deficits
    “If not for the Bush tax cuts, the deficit-financed wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the effects of the worst recession since the Great Depression (including the cost of policymakers’ actions to combat it), we would not be facing these huge deficits in the near term. By themselves, in fact, the Bush tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will account for almost half of the $20 trillion in debt that, under current policies, the nation will owe by 2019. The stimulus law and financial rescues will account for less than 10 percent of the debt at that time.”

    As you can see Obama's spending is extravagant but comparable to Bush.
    Four Charts Illustrating the Spending and Revenue Records of Presidents Clinton, Bush, and Obama | the augmented trader

    In terms of private sector jobs Clinton leads the pack followed by Regan. Obamsa is again comparable to Bush
    Calculated Risk: Public and Private Sector Payroll Jobs: Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama

    It makes no sense to say "the real rate of unemploymnet is 50% not 15% " since the unemployment rate is as defined.
    If you want to you a "real rate" by selecting all people legally entitled to work in the country of working age then you will find that if you use the same method for others such as Bush the rate will be 70% or 80%. The point is for the fiorst time ever in the US memory unemployment is double digit. This double digit rate happened in the Bush Presidency not in the Obama Presidency.

    So save us the conspiracy theory about Obama overspending being a liberal position when Bush set the trend in the first place.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...2-11-FINAL.jpg

    Bush era tax cuts and the War will account for half the debt by 2019!

    So please don't try to link that issue to global warming.

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    http://www.realscam.com/f13/global-w...878/#post43016

    Some more sources on global Warming from another thread in this forum

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Climate change is just something that happens.
    It's inevitable and nothing we could have done to stop it.
    The government don't want us to stop using petrol ... it's one of their biggest earners (especially in the UK with around 70% of the cost being tax!)

    Jason

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle



    The inconvenient lies of Al Gore and his man made global warming fraud vs. the logic and the facts behind Lord Monckton.

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle



    Lord Christopher Monckton presents "Fallacies about Global Warming".

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle



    Exposes the naked truth that man made global warming is just a scam to get the masses to commit economic suicide by extorting the masses into paying higher taxes.

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund129 View Post


    Exposes the naked truth that man made global warming is just a scam to get the masses to commit economic suicide by extorting the masses into paying higher taxes.
    Trying to push the rebuttles off the page again I see.

    I hate to tell you Ed. While it may help you to forget just how many things you got wrong, the rest of us remember. We remember how you disappeared for a week and yet again failed to respond when almost all your facts were proven to be BS, Misinformation or outright lies.

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Poyol View Post
    Climate change is just something that happens.
    It's inevitable and nothing we could have done to stop it.
    The government don't want us to stop using petrol ... it's one of their biggest earners (especially in the UK with around 70% of the cost being tax!)

    Jason
    That is the basic point, the environmental Nazi fascist exploit perfectly normal environmental events and portray them as abnormal and blame human beings, free market capitalism and industrialization in order to steal peoples money through higher taxes, steal their jobs, drive the cost of fuel and energy through the roof under the fantasy that man made global warming will bring about the end of the world.
    ...

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund129 View Post
    That is the basic point, the environmental Nazi fascist exploit perfectly normal environmental events and portray them as abnormal and blame human beings, free market capitalism and industrialization in order to steal peoples money through higher taxes, steal their jobs, drive the cost of fuel and energy through the roof under the fantasy that man made global warming will bring about the end of the world.
    ...
    5083454e-3f3e-41f3-bd29-7d7fcb9f89d7.jpg
    edmundsnews.JPG

    Edmund, your blogging alone is causing too much global warming.

    images2.jpg
    Last edited by ribshaw; 06-06-2013 at 11:33 AM. Reason: Removed potty mouth comment from photo.
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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund129 View Post
    The inconvenient lies of Al Gore and his man made global warming fraud vs. the logic and the facts behind Lord Monckton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund129 View Post
    Lord Christopher Monckton presents "Fallacies about Global Warming".

    parliament.uk/business/news/2011/july/letter-to-viscount-monckton;
    A letter to Viscount Monckton of Brenchley from the Clerk of the Parliaments
    18 July 2011

    Letter to Viscount Monckton of Brenchley from David Beamish, the Clerk of the Parliaments.

    Dear Lord Monckton

    My predecessor, Sir Michael Pownall, wrote to you on 21 July 2010, and again on 30 July 2010, asking that you cease claiming to be a Member of the House of Lords, either directly or by implication. It has been drawn to my attention that you continue to make such claims.

    In particular, I have listened to your recent interview with Mr Adam Spencer on Australian radio. In response to the direct question, whether or not you were a Member of the House of Lords, you said "Yes, but without the right to sit or vote". You later repeated, "I am a Member of the House".

    I must repeat my predecessor's statement that you are not and have never been a Member of the House of Lords. Your assertion that you are a Member, but without the right to sit or vote, is a contradiction in terms. No-one denies that you are, by virtue of your letters Patent, a Peer. That is an entirely separate issue to membership of the House. This is borne out by the recent judgment in Baron Mereworth v Ministry of Justice (Crown Office) where Mr Justice Lewison stated:

    "In my judgment, the reference [in the House of Lords Act 1999] to 'a member of the House of Lords' is simply a reference to the right to sit and vote in that House ... In a nutshell, membership of the House of Lords means the right to sit and vote in that House. It does not mean entitlement to the dignity of a peerage."

    I must therefore again ask that you desist from claiming to be a Member of the House of Lords, either directly or by implication, and also that you desist from claiming to be a Member "without the right to sit or vote".

    I am publishing this letter on the parliamentary website so that anybody who wishes to check whether you are a Member of the House of Lords can view this official confirmation that you are not.

    David Beamish
    Clerk of the Parliaments

    15 July 2011
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Monkton runs from a written debate with Portholer54 THAT monkton started himself.
    http://youtu.be/yeTGBwr_6rU

    Monkton Bumkim part 1 of 6
    http://youtu.be/lpMZ4EpCseM
    There is only so often someone can lie.

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Electricity is the instant exchange of a significant number electrons between a significant number of atoms in the same direction at the exact same instant of time. And this can get accomplished many different ways. Through chemistry like in Batteries, or by smacking a conductor with a magnetic field like what is done in electric Generators. However when you smack a conductor with a magnetic field not only will their be a voltage and current generated, but based on the amount of current flowing into the load, a counter magnetic field is created that opposes the original magnetic field that produced the voltage and current in the first place.

    So electricity is another way of converting other sources of energy from motion, light, heat, etc, ... into a form of work that can be transported to another location to produce a different kind off work.

    ...

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Quote Originally Posted by ribshaw View Post
    5083454e-3f3e-41f3-bd29-7d7fcb9f89d7.jpg
    edmundsnews.JPG

    Edmund, your blogging alone is causing too much global warming.

    images2.jpg
    Spoken like the true Marxist liberal retard that you are!!!

    Here the world sits with skyrocketing energy and fuel prices driven by the mass fraud of man made global warming, and all you do is Mach people who defend their existence with the facts, while the Man Made Global Warming lying propognadists (Like yourself) invent one lie after another to justify the mass genocide of billions of people and their lives.

    The source of my information comes directly from the climatologists that are actually doing the research into climate change. Which make up about 97% of all climatologists. The exact same climatologists that are not only silenced by Man Made Global Warming propagandists, but have also had attempts on their lives made to keep them silent.

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund129 View Post
    Spoken like the true Marxist liberal retard that you are!!!

    Here the world sits with skyrocketing energy and fuel prices driven by the mass fraud of man made global warming, and all you do is Mach people who defend their existence with the facts, while the Man Made Global Warming lying propognadists (Like yourself) invent one lie after another to justify the mass genocide of billions of people and their lives.

    The source of my information comes directly from the climatologists that are actually doing the research into climate change. Which make up about 97% of all climatologists. The exact same climatologists that are not only silenced by Man Made Global Warming propagandists, but have also had attempts on their lives made to keep them silent.
    Nope, you are repeating the same debunked likes over and over as if that changes the fact that you have been duped to lobby for free for big energy.
    "It's virtually impossible to violate rules ... but it's impossible for a violation to go undetected, certainly not for a considerable period of time." Bernie Madoff
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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund129 View Post
    , and all you do is Mach people who defend their existence with the facts,
    dictionary.com/mach;
    mach ;[mahk]
    noun
    a number indicating the ratio of the speed of an object to the speed of sound in the medium through which the object is moving.
    Did you perhaps mean:
    dictionary.com/mock;
    mock ;[mok]
    verb (used with object)
    1.
    to attack or treat with ridicule, contempt, or derision.
    2.
    to ridicule by mimicry of action or speech; mimic derisively.
    3.
    to mimic, imitate, or counterfeit.
    4.
    to challenge; defy: His actions mock convention.
    5.
    to deceive, delude, or disappoint.
    verb (used without object)
    6.
    to use ridicule or derision; scoff; jeer (often followed by at ).
    Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. -C. Darwin

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle



    More of the Frauds created by Al Gore exposed. More on the biggest mass fraud known as man made global warming.

    Just like Al Gore, "Man Made Global Warming" is pure lying propaganda.

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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Here is the proof of the scientists that Man Made Global Warming propagandists say don't exist, who have had attempts on their lives to keep them silent. These are the scientists that refuse to become silent, while many many more are being silent because of the threats on their lives by the Marxist style terrorists that make up the crowd know as Man Made Global Warming Alarmists:



    Scientists questioning the accuracy of IPCC climate projections

    Scientists in this section have made comments that it is not possible to project global climate accurately enough to justify the ranges projected for temperature and sea-level rise over the next century. They may not conclude specifically that the current IPCC projections are either too high or too low, but that the projections are likely to be inaccurate due to inadequacies of current global climate modeling.

    Freeman Dyson, professor emeritus of the School of Natural Sciences, Institute for Advanced Study; Fellow of the Royal Society [10]
    Richard Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan professor of atmospheric science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and member of the National Academy of Sciences[11]
    Nils-Axel Mörner, retired head of the Paleogeophysics and Geodynamics department at Stockholm University, former chairman of the INQUA Commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution (1999–2003), and author of books supporting the validity of dowsing[12]
    Garth Paltridge, retired chief research scientist, CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research and retired director of the Institute of the Antarctic Cooperative Research Centre, visiting fellow ANU[13]
    Philip Stott, professor emeritus of biogeography at the University of London[14]
    Hendrik Tennekes, retired director of research, Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute [15]


    Scientists arguing that global warming is primarily caused by natural processes

    Graph showing the ability with which a global climate model is able to reconstruct the historical temperature record, and the degree to which those temperature changes can be decomposed into various forcing factors. It shows the effects of five forcing factors: greenhouse gases, man-made sulfate emissions, solar variability, ozone changes, and volcanic emissions.[16]
    Scientists in this section have made comments that the observed warming is more likely attributable to natural causes than to human activities. Their views on climate change are usually described in more detail in their biographical articles.

    Khabibullo Abdusamatov, mathematician and astronomer at Pulkovo Observatory of the Russian Academy of Sciences[17]
    Sallie Baliunas, astronomer, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics[18][19]
    Ian Clark, hydrogeologist, professor, Department of Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa[20]
    Chris de Freitas, associate professor, School of Geography, Geology and Environmental Science, University of Auckland[21]
    David Douglass, solid-state physicist, professor, Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Rochester[22]
    Don Easterbrook, emeritus professor of geology, Western Washington University[23]
    William M. Gray, professor emeritus and head of the Tropical Meteorology Project, Department of Atmospheric Science, Colorado State University[24]
    William Happer, physicist specializing in optics and spectroscopy, Princeton University[25]
    William Kininmonth, meteorologist, former Australian delegate to World Meteorological Organization Commission for Climatology[26]
    David Legates, associate professor of geography and director of the Center for Climatic Research, University of Delaware[27]
    Tad Murty, oceanographer; adjunct professor, Departments of Civil Engineering and Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa[28]
    Tim Patterson, paleoclimatologist and professor of geology at Carleton University in Canada.[29][30]
    Ian Plimer, professor emeritus of Mining Geology, the University of Adelaide.[31]
    Nicola Scafetta, research scientist in the physics department at Duke University[32][33]
    Tom Segalstad, head of the Geology Museum at the University of Oslo[34]
    Fred Singer, professor emeritus of environmental sciences at the University of Virginia[35][36][37]
    Willie Soon, astrophysicist, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics[38]
    Roy Spencer, principal research scientist, University of Alabama in Huntsville[39]
    Henrik Svensmark, Danish National Space Center[40]
    Jan Veizer, environmental geochemist, professor emeritus from University of Ottawa[41]

    Scientists arguing that the cause of global warming is unknown

    Scientists in this section have made comments that no principal cause can be ascribed to the observed rising temperatures, whether man-made or natural. Their views on climate change are usually described in more detail in their biographical articles.

    Syun-Ichi Akasofu, retired professor of geophysics and founding director of the International Arctic Research Center of the University of Alaska Fairbanks[42]
    Claude Allègre, politician; geochemist, Institute of Geophysics (Paris)[43]
    Robert C. Balling, Jr., a professor of geography at Arizona State University[44]
    John Christy, professor of atmospheric science and director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, contributor to several IPCC[45][46]
    Petr Chylek, space and remote sensing sciences researcher, Los Alamos National Laboratory[47]
    Judith Curry, chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology[48]
    David Deming, geology professor at the University of Oklahoma[49]
    Antonino Zichichi, emeritus professor of nuclear physics at the University of Bologna and president of the World Federation of Scientists[50]

    Scientists arguing that global warming will have few negative consequences

    Scientists in this section have made comments that projected rising temperatures will be of little impact or a net positive for human society and/or the Earth's environment. Their views on climate change are usually described in more detail in their biographical articles.

    Craig D. Idso, faculty researcher, Office of Climatology, Arizona State University and founder of the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change [51]
    Sherwood Idso, former research physicist, USDA Water Conservation Laboratory, and adjunct professor, Arizona State University[52]
    Patrick Michaels, senior fellow at the Cato Institute and retired research professor of environmental science at the University of Virginia[53]

    ...

  23. #21
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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Scientists questioning the accuracy of IPCC climate projections

    Scientists in this section have made comments that it is not possible to project global climate accurately enough to justify the ranges projected for temperature and sea-level rise over the next century. They may not conclude specifically that the current IPCC projections are either too high or too low, but that the projections are likely to be inaccurate due to inadequacies of current global climate modeling.

    Freeman Dyson, [COLOR="#0000FF"]professor emeritus[/COemeritusLOR] of the School of Natural Sciences, Institute for Advanced Study; Fellow of the Royal Society [10]
    Richard Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan professor of atmospheric science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and member of the National Academy of Sciences[11]
    Nils-Axel Mörner, retired head of the Paleogeophysics and Geodynamics department at Stockholm University, former chairman of the INQUA Commission on Sea Level Changes and Coastal Evolution (1999–2003), and author of books supporting the validity of dowsing[12]
    Garth Paltridge, retired chief research scientist, CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research and retired director of the Institute of the Antarctic Cooperative Research Centre, visiting fellow ANU[13]
    Philip Stott, professor emeritus of biogeography at the University of London[14]
    Hendrik Tennekes, retired director of research, Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute [15]


    Scientists arguing that global warming is primarily caused by natural processes

    Graph showing the ability with which a global climate model is able to reconstruct the historical temperature record, and the degree to which those temperature changes can be decomposed into various forcing factors. It shows the effects of five forcing factors: greenhouse gases, man-made sulfate emissions, solar variability, ozone changes, and volcanic emissions.[16]
    Scientists in this section have made comments that the observed warming is more likely attributable to natural causes than to human activities. Their views on climate change are usually described in more detail in their biographical articles.

    Khabibullo Abdusamatov, mathematician and astronomer at Pulkovo Observatory of the Russian Academy of Sciences[17]
    Sallie Baliunas, astronomer, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics[18][19]
    Ian Clark, hydrogeologist, professor, Department of Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa[20]
    Chris de Freitas, associate professor, School of Geography, Geology and Environmental Science, University of Auckland[21]
    David Douglass, solid-state physicist, professor, Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Rochester[22]
    Don Easterbrook, emeritus professor of geology, Western Washington University[23]
    William M. Gray, professor emeritus and head of the Tropical Meteorology Project, Department of Atmospheric Science, Colorado State University[24]
    William Happer, physicist specializing in optics and spectroscopy, Princeton University[25]
    William Kininmonth, meteorologist, former Australian delegate to World Meteorological Organization Commission for Climatology[26]
    David Legates, associate professor of geography and director of the Center for Climatic Research, University of Delaware[27]
    Tad Murty, oceanographer; adjunct professor, Departments of Civil Engineering and Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa[28]
    Tim Patterson, paleoclimatologist and professor of geology at Carleton University in Canada.[29][30]
    Ian Plimer, professor emeritus of Mining Geology, the University of Adelaide.[31]
    Nicola Scafetta, research scientist in the physics department at Duke University[32][33]
    Tom Segalstad, head of the Geology Museum at the University of Oslo[34]
    Fred Singer, professor emeritus of environmental sciences at the University of Virginia[35][36][37]
    Willie Soon, astrophysicist, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics[38]
    Roy Spencer, principal research scientist, University of Alabama in Huntsville[39]
    Henrik Svensmark, Danish National Space Center[40]
    Jan Veizer, environmental geochemist, professor emeritus from University of Ottawa[41]

    Scientists arguing that the cause of global warming is unknown

    Scientists in this section have made comments that no principal cause can be ascribed to the observed rising temperatures, whether man-made or natural. Their views on climate change are usually described in more detail in their biographical articles.

    Syun-Ichi Akasofu, retired professor of geophysics and founding director of the International Arctic Research Center of the University of Alaska Fairbanks[42]
    Claude Allègre, politician; geochemist, Institute of Geophysics (Paris)[43]
    Robert C. Balling, Jr., a professor of geography at Arizona State University[44]
    John Christy, professor of atmospheric science and director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, contributor to several IPCC[45][46]
    Petr Chylek, space and remote sensing sciences researcher, Los Alamos National Laboratory[47]
    Judith Curry, chair of the School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences at the Georgia Institute of Technology[48]
    David Deming, geology professor at the University of Oklahoma[49]
    Antonino Zichichi, emeritus professor of nuclear physics at the University of Bologna and president of the World Federation of Scientists[50]

    Scientists arguing that global warming will have few negative consequences

    Scientists in this section have made comments that projected rising temperatures will be of little impact or a net positive for human society and/or the Earth's environment. Their views on climate change are usually described in more detail in their biographical articles.

    Craig D. Idso, faculty researcher, Office of Climatology, Arizona State University and founder of the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change [51]
    Sherwood Idso, former research physicist, USDA Water Conservation Laboratory, and adjunct professor, Arizona State University[52]
    Patrick Michaels, senior fellow at the Cato Institute and retired research professor of environmental science at the University of Virginia[53]

    ...
    Actually ED I don't believe anyone said that these people do not exist.

    Interestedly NONE of them said that Co2 wasn't a green house gas.

    I also a very large list of RETIRED (emeritus = retired), Politicians, and astrophysicists. and one that studies science of dousing. Pretty short on climatologists. Even retired ones.

    Now do you want to see my list.... AGAIN?
    Scientific Organizations That Hold the Position That Climate Change Has Been Caused by Human Action)

    Academia Chilena de Ciencias, Chile
    Academia das Ciencias de Lisboa, Portugal
    Academia de Ciencias de la República Dominicana
    Academia de Ciencias Físicas, Matemáticas y Naturales de Venezuela
    Academia de Ciencias Medicas, Fisicas y Naturales de Guatemala
    Academia Mexicana de Ciencias,Mexico
    Academia Nacional de Ciencias de Bolivia
    Academia Nacional de Ciencias del Peru
    Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
    Académie des Sciences, France
    Academies of Arts, Humanities and Sciences of Canada
    Academy of Athens
    Academy of Science of Mozambique
    Academy of Science of South Africa
    Academy of Sciences for the Developing World (TWAS)
    Academy of Sciences Malaysia

    and 180+ more. and these are country wide organizations of actual practicing scientists.

  24. #22
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    Repetând aceeași minciună de peste si peste din nou, nu-l face un fapt.
    "It's virtually impossible to violate rules ... but it's impossible for a violation to go undetected, certainly not for a considerable period of time." Bernie Madoff
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Scam-...98399986981403

  25. #23
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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Hi All. I was invited over to this site from Yahoo where I was in a debate with "Kevin" about AGW. I use AGW because that is the real issue here. Global warming, cooling or climate change is not the issue. The issue is AGW and to waht extent man is contributing to any changes. My primary focus is on the computer models used by the IPCC to arrive at their catastrophic warming over the next 100 years.

    This is a very complex argument that has many parts to it. If it was just limited to a scientific curiosity, i.e. if there is a multiverse, then we could stop early on. But the debate goes much further as its supporters (whom I sometimes refer to as priests) what to force fiscal policy to be involved. And that part of the debate covers areas such as global advantages and disadvantages, costs, benefits and alternative uses for scarce resources.

    Now I'm pretty sure I'll get hammered from many people. While the argument can get very heated, I I don't shy away from the heat, I do try to stick with real science and facts. But be forwarned that what you may THINK is science is most likely not real science. Dogma is not science. Polling is not science. And just because someone is in academia doesn't make them right. I can and will bring up historical people that upset the apple cart and were later proved to be right.

  26. #24
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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
    Hi All. I was invited over to this site from Yahoo where I was in a debate with "Kevin" about AGW. I use AGW because that is the real issue here. Global warming, cooling or climate change is not the issue. The issue is AGW and to waht extent man is contributing to any changes. My primary focus is on the computer models used by the IPCC to arrive at their catastrophic warming over the next 100 years.

    This is a very complex argument that has many parts to it. If it was just limited to a scientific curiosity, i.e. if there is a multiverse, then we could stop early on. But the debate goes much further as its supporters (whom I sometimes refer to as priests) what to force fiscal policy to be involved. And that part of the debate covers areas such as global advantages and disadvantages, costs, benefits and alternative uses for scarce resources.

    Now I'm pretty sure I'll get hammered from many people. While the argument can get very heated, I I don't shy away from the heat, I do try to stick with real science and facts. But be forwarned that what you may THINK is science is most likely not real science. Dogma is not science. Polling is not science. And just because someone is in academia doesn't make them right. I can and will bring up historical people that upset the apple cart and were later proved to be right.
    Mongo, rather than looking for new folks to debate, how about an analysis of the information as it has already been presented. Personally I fall on the side of the less crap we put into the air, water and land the better. I also recognize there is a cost benefit analysis that must be done.

    Personally I don't think the socialization of the losses from things like pollution, excess healthcare costs from things like Black Lung and Ashma, oil spills or Superfund sites should be in any way covered by the taxpayer as they are now. Nor do I believe our government should be occupying 100 + countries with our military, in some places for the sole purpose protecting big oil. If they need military protection they should pay for it directly. And finally, flood insurance should not be socialized as it is now. The insurance companies have chosen to abandon the risk, the taxpayer should not be forced to step in.

    If the above came to pass, I think you would see a dramatic shift in people's belief structures as the people who consume energy would be paying close to the free market price. At the same time, I am not a scientist so maybe type slowly.
    "It's virtually impossible to violate rules ... but it's impossible for a violation to go undetected, certainly not for a considerable period of time." Bernie Madoff
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Scam-...98399986981403

  27. #25
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    Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
    Hi All. I was invited over to this site from Yahoo where I was in a debate with "Kevin" about AGW. I use AGW because that is the real issue here. Global warming, cooling or climate change is not the issue. The issue is AGW and to waht extent man is contributing to any changes. My primary focus is on the computer models used by the IPCC to arrive at their catastrophic warming over the next 100 years.

    This is a very complex argument that has many parts to it. If it was just limited to a scientific curiosity, i.e. if there is a multiverse, then we could stop early on. But the debate goes much further as its supporters (whom I sometimes refer to as priests) what to force fiscal policy to be involved. And that part of the debate covers areas such as global advantages and disadvantages, costs, benefits and alternative uses for scarce resources.

    Now I'm pretty sure I'll get hammered from many people. While the argument can get very heated, I I don't shy away from the heat, I do try to stick with real science and facts. But be forwarned that what you may THINK is science is most likely not real science. Dogma is not science. Polling is not science. And just because someone is in academia doesn't make them right. I can and will bring up historical people that upset the apple cart and were later proved to be right.
    Hi Mongo. I'm known as Spector567 here.

    I'll think you find that some of the topics we discussed in our thread can be already found here. A poster named ED already made some of the claims but in a less elegant fashion. Including the cosmic ray theory and a few others. Please forgive my tone with him. As I said he people who respond unkind receive unkind responses.

    For now I'll leave you with the article I promised you about economists and global warming.
    Economists Concur on Threat of Warming - NYTimes.com
    http://policyintegrity.org/files/med..._TWO_PAGER.pdf

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