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Thread: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

  1. #76
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    Hmmnn,

    I was wondering why the "Remax" name and logo mysteriously disappeared from the listings Mr Cuthbert posted.

    They were there in glorious colour last night,

    and today ??

    "poof" gone like a phony real estate "lister" whose commissions are due to be paid.
    You seem to be making things up my friend as I discussed with the Realtor which LOGO they are adding and it is being sorted this week.
    The Realtor Eric Chase has his contacts details in all the listings he owns the Remax Branch

    They have been getting just over 100 views a day on their listing via PropertyWikia

  2. #77
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Diligent by name and diligent by nature — and a paid-up PropertyWikia Affiliate — I thought I'd see what light I can shed on one or two of the contentious issues surrounding the business...

    THE COMPANY REGISTRATION ISSUE


    Let's first of all be sure of what PropertyWikia claims about its legal structure on the 'About Us' page:


    "PropertyWikia is the public trading arm of the RMV Group which is a private investment platform and both are 'trading names' of and fully owned by 3iCatalyst.com who are based in London. 3iCatalyst is a partnership and PropertyWikia is a trading name/brand name.

    RMV Group is a group of over five thousand strong investors that provide PropertyWikia with its unlimited investor buying power.

    3iCatalyst.com is a NO VC (No Venture Capital) incubator that funds, launches and helps run successful companies worldwide. The business handles investments of over £12.5 Billion.

    Founded by some of the best business minds in today’s business world, 3iCatalyst strives to develop businesses that have significant potential for high growth and rapid return for investors. PropertyWikia is one such business.

    Some of the clients 3iCatalyst participate with, fund or advise include Play.com, BlackBerry, Virgin, flickr, Yahoo, Rio Tinto, easyJet and BP - to name but a few.

    Both PropertyWikia and the RMV Group are office based at Canary Wharf in London's Docklands."


    Going by that statement, then, we must take it that the business names 'PropertyWikia' and 'RMV Group' are simply trading/brand names belonging to 3iCatalyst. Not companies. Not even registered trademarks. So on that basis, under UK law, the two names do NOT have to be registered with any Government body or other organisation.

    Meanwhile 3iCatalyst, we’re led to believe, is a 'partnership'. Well in fact, there are 3 types of partnership in terms of legal structure: general partnership, limited partnership, and limited liability partnership (LLP). And of those, only the ‘limited’ ones are required by law to be registered. In the absence of clarification from 3iCatalyst, it's reasonable to take their partnership to be a general partnership. ( Source: http://www.businesslink.gov.uk ).

    It's no surprise at all, then, that in searches of business name databases, nothing comes up for either 'PropertyWikia', or 'Property Wikia', or 'RMV Group', or '3iCatalyst'. See for yourself over at Dun & Bradstreet ( http://www.dnb.com ) and Companies House ( http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk ).

    Also check out the National Business Register, where you can run a meta-search of several databases. The only one that turns up results — but results irrelevant to the issue — is their domain name database. ( See http://www.start.biz/home.htm ).

    However, there is something else that's highly relevant to the registered name issue. Under 'The Company, Limited Liability Partnership and Business Names (Sensitive Words and Expressions) Regulations 2009', the word 'Group' is classed as a 'sensitive' word. A business using a name containing such a word is required to obtain prior consent to do so from a specified Government or public body. Without this, they are acting unlawfully ( source: http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/gbhtml/gp1.shtml ).

    There would have to be an official record of any such consent, so in the absence of any other verifiable proof of their legitimacy, a perfectly reasonable due diligence question to put to PropertyWikia is...

    "Have you obtained prior consent from a Government or other body to use the name 'RMV Group', and if so, would you please disclose documentary proof?"


    But of course there's one Government body with which every single business of whatever legal structure must register, and that's Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs (HMRC). Which leads us neatly to the next bone of contention...

    THE VAT ISSUE

    A UK business that's 'distance selling' on the web such as PropertyWikia must apply for VAT registration once its VAT-taxable turnover derived from UK-based sources during the previous 12 months reaches the threshold of £70,000. ( Source: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/start/reg...o-register.htm )

    In early September 2011, a number of affiliates started to query PropertyWikia's position on VAT — their failure to disclose a VAT number; the absence of any mention of VAT on the £109 area fees; receipts/invoices showing no VAT component and no VAT number. PropertyWikia's response to these concerns was to issue this statement on 12th September:


    “Why doesn't PropertyWikia charge VAT on areas?

    The coding cost/s for your area/s is/are classed as a reservation. VAT should not be levied against refundable reservation.

    Each area you order will transform into a *'Franchised Area' in October 2012 subject to your acceptance of its area franchise agreement.

    Your franchise agreement will be available in September 2012 in you language.

    Until acceptance or rejection of the franchise agreement you can generate and get paid commission and commission overrides and still get paid between now and October 2012 on you ordered areas as advertised.

    Your coding cost/s reserves your *franchised areas in your name until you accept the final franchise contract. Upon acceptance of the final contract your account will be billed any VAT owing under the transaction prevalent rate (currently 20%). This payment will be deducted from earnings.

    In 2012 all affiliates will get transformed into a franchise offering a local property website/portal dedicated to their HQ to attract more owners without having to invite any longer - supported by PropertyWikia.

    Affiliates will be provided with a local property portal/website and the required tools to operate as part of this franchise at no extra cost. Franchise can be cancelled at any time before signature.

    * More details to be released.”


    ( Source: http://www.propertywikia.com/menu/FA...erritory/9/661 )


    We got an explanation, then, of PropertyWikia's treatment of VAT on fees, but they completely ducked the legitimate questions about their current VAT status. So, to get to the bottom of all this, I gave HMRC’s VAT Helpline a ring (0845 010 9000) and asked an advisor if there's a VAT number for '3iCatalyst trading as PropertyWikia (part of the RMV Group)'.

    As I half expected, they said that if I can give them a VAT number they can tell me the name of the business it belongs to but they can’t do the opposite; it goes against their rules of confidentiality. Disappointing but fair enough.

    Then I thought: while I’ve got a very helpful HMRC advisor on the phone I'll pump them for their take on the company's treatment of VAT on area fees. So I got them to read the Affiliate Q&As web page where the statement was posted. Here's a summary of what the advisor had to say:

    The ‘VAT tax point’ — the point at which VAT must be levied on a supply — is the point at which the vendor receives payment for that supply. PropertyWikia may define an area fee as a 'refundable reservation' on a 'franchised area' but it CANNOT defer until acceptance of the franchise agreement settlement of any VAT element of a pre-paid fee. (See: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vatto...vattos5125.htm )

    So there we have it... from the horse's mouth. In light of this, how should we interpret PropertyWikia's statement?

    Well I interpret it to mean that if the company hasn't been charging affiliates VAT to date, they must NOT be VAT registered. And that's because over the last 12 months, turnover from all UK sources — not just from area fees — can't have totalled £70,000. However they anticipate they will have reached that threshold and be VAT registered by October 2012 when franchise agreements are signed.

    But unfortunately, they haven’t applied the VAT tax point rules correctly; they've failed to understand that they can't defer VAT as proposed. Evidently not even one of "the best business minds in today’s business world" could get their grey matter round basic VAT law.

    But I can guess what you're thinking by now...

    "That's all very interesting, but there's a bloody great elephant in the room waving a big red flag in its trunk! Given PropertyWikia's claims about their sources of revenue, surely they would have needed to register for VAT months ago?"

    Okay, let's go check out the current figures for those sources on the 'About Us' page, under 'How We Make Money': http://propertywikia.com/menu/Home/About_Us ...

    Well, we don't have to look any further, do we, than 'Ad Revenue' at the top of the list for an answer to the question...

    Our Ad Revenue 2011
    £24,254,030.00 GBP

    "This figure indicates the pre-paid advertising order
    book’s balance for 2011 (fluctuates daily)."

    Notice the word 'pre-paid'. That doesn't mean pledged payment. That doesn't mean pending payment. Pre-paid means digits on the sales ledger. Cash in the bank. Only £70,000 of that figure (about 0.29%) would need to be sourced in the UK for the VAT-registration threshold to have been reached.

    And that's just revenue claimed for PropertyWikia. Don't forget, they say PropertyWikia is just a trade/brand name, so the business entity affiliates and third parties actually transact with must be the 3iCatalyst 'partnership'. Were we affiliates being charged VAT it would be collected by HMRC on 3iCatalyst's VAT returns.

    Therefore the turnover qualifying 3iCatalyst for VAT registration must include revenue derived from handling the claimed "investments of over £12.5 Billion", plus revenue derived from any other business done with the companies whose logos appear all over their home page, plus the claimed multi-million-pound PropertyWikia revenue. (Ref: http://www.3icatalyst.com )

    [I've just noticed that within the last day or so they've removed all those logos and added their Canary Wharf address. But not to worry, the home page is archived as far back as January 2008, here: http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/3icatalyst.com .]

    So... these perfectly reasonable due diligence questions still remain for the company to answer unequivocally:

    "Is 3iCatalyst t/a PropertyWikia (part of the RMV Group) registered for VAT or is it not?"

    "If it is registered, what's your VAT number and why have you not charged VAT on area license fees to date?"

    "If it's not registered, given your claimed turnover, which far exceeds the VAT-registration threshold, why not?"


    And now, in addition...

    "Regarding your September 12th statement, why have you improperly applied VAT tax point law in your treatment of VAT on area fees?"

    Whilst on the subject of improperly applied law, let's deal with a very important issue I don't think has been aired...

    THE TRADING SCHEMES LAW ISSUE

    PropertyWikia is offering a network/multi-level marketing business opportunity, which the UK Government defines as a 'trading scheme'. As such, it falls under The Trading Schemes Regulations 1997.

    Under the terms of those regulations...


    "A promoter of, or a participant in, a trading scheme shall not accept from a participant joining the trading scheme any payment or an undertaking to make a payment of any sum exceeding £200 unless 7 days have expired from the making of the agreement relating to goods or services supplied or to be supplied under that agreement to the participant by the promoter or any other participant under the trading scheme."


    In layman's language... an MLM company cannot charge an enrolee more than £200 within the first 7 days of their joining the business.

    Yet, following their 24-hour trial period, an enrolling PropertyWikia affiliate is encouraged to fork out well in excess of that legal limit. They're offered a single area license costing £109 and the option to buy up to 11 more, discounted on a sliding scale when ordered at the same time. This is the price list:

    1 — £109.00
    2 — £196.20
    3 — £287.76
    4 — £374.96
    5 — £452.35
    6 — £523.20
    7 — £587.51
    8 — £654.00
    9 — £706.32
    10 — £719.40
    11 — £743.38
    12 — £719.40

    So the next query PropertyWikia need to deal with — before Trading Standards or City of London Police deal with them — is...

    "Why are you taking payments from new affiliates for more than 2 areas, in violation of Trading Schemes law?"

    So, ladies and gentlemen of the jury... 3iCatalyst trading as PropertyWikia (part of the RMV Group). Scam or no scam? Conspiracy to defraud or conspiracy to revolutionise the property market?

    You may like to retire, do your own due diligence, and consider your verdict.

    You can probably guess what my verdict is.

  3. #78
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Hi there, Julie and welcome to REALSCAM.com

    Can I take it from your posts here and elsewhere that you won't be joining the PropertyWikia Appreciation Society any time soon ??
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  4. #79
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    So, following a lead on the next big thing being touted around the 'net,, I decided to check out the offerings of PROPERTY WIKIA a UK based "new and unique" property based "opportunity:



    Property Wikia describes its' offerings:



    In true snoop fashion, I decide to see if this international conglomerate has anything on offer in my region.

    LO and BEHOLD, they have,

    this one: PropertyWikia - For Sale - Serpentine, west australian, Australia




    Investigating further, I decide to check out if the property is for sale elsewhere,

    Wouldn't ya know it, it IS for sale, only this time by a legitimate licensed real estate broker and member of the Real Estate Institute Of Western Australia, R.E.I.W.A here: 899 Elliot Road, Serpentine, WA 6125 - House for Sale #107520302 - realestate.com.au



    Only this time:

    a) the price is AUD $300,000 dollars cheaper @ $1,650,000 instead of the $1,950,000 being claimed by Property Wikia
    b) Instead of being the 5 bedroom, 2 bathroom "ranch" being offered by Property Wikia, the property has now become a:



    c) Instead of the property being as claimed by Property Wikia, it has now become: according to the genuine agent.

    Can we say "Property Wikia" and its' "associates" are as dumb as a sack full of hammers and can't even steal other peoples' listings accurately ??

    Goodness gracious, all we need is for the Property Wikia people to tell prospective buyers they stand to inherit a squillion bucks from a long lost relative who died in a plane crash in Nigeria leaving his fortune to a complete stranger and this would take the cake as most amateur scam of 2011.

    Geez, Property Wikia, lift your game.

    You're a disgrace to your chosen profession.
    I agree with you there about the listing person. Property was removed by PropertyWikia as it did not meet the guide lines.

  5. #80
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by Julie Diligent View Post
    Diligent by name and diligent by nature — and a paid-up PropertyWikia Affiliate — I thought I'd see what light I can shed on one or two of the contentious issues surrounding the business...

    THE COMPANY REGISTRATION ISSUE


    Let's first of all be sure of what PropertyWikia claims about its legal structure on the 'About Us' page:


    "PropertyWikia is the public trading arm of the RMV Group which is a private investment platform and both are 'trading names' of and fully owned by 3iCatalyst.com who are based in London. 3iCatalyst is a partnership and PropertyWikia is a trading name/brand name.

    RMV Group is a group of over five thousand strong investors that provide PropertyWikia with its unlimited investor buying power.

    3iCatalyst.com is a NO VC (No Venture Capital) incubator that funds, launches and helps run successful companies worldwide. The business handles investments of over £12.5 Billion.

    Founded by some of the best business minds in today’s business world, 3iCatalyst strives to develop businesses that have significant potential for high growth and rapid return for investors. PropertyWikia is one such business.

    Some of the clients 3iCatalyst participate with, fund or advise include Play.com, BlackBerry, Virgin, flickr, Yahoo, Rio Tinto, easyJet and BP - to name but a few.

    Both PropertyWikia and the RMV Group are office based at Canary Wharf in London's Docklands."


    Going by that statement, then, we must take it that the business names 'PropertyWikia' and 'RMV Group' are simply trading/brand names belonging to 3iCatalyst. Not companies. Not even registered trademarks. So on that basis, under UK law, the two names do NOT have to be registered with any Government body or other organisation.

    Meanwhile 3iCatalyst, we’re led to believe, is a 'partnership'. Well in fact, there are 3 types of partnership in terms of legal structure: general partnership, limited partnership, and limited liability partnership (LLP). And of those, only the ‘limited’ ones are required by law to be registered. In the absence of clarification from 3iCatalyst, it's reasonable to take their partnership to be a general partnership. ( Source: Business support, information and advice | Business Link ).

    It's no surprise at all, then, that in searches of business name databases, nothing comes up for either 'PropertyWikia', or 'Property Wikia', or 'RMV Group', or '3iCatalyst'. See for yourself over at Dun & Bradstreet ( D&B ) and Companies House ( WebCHeck - Select and Access Company Information ).

    Also check out the National Business Register, where you can run a meta-search of several databases. The only one that turns up results — but results irrelevant to the issue — is their domain name database. ( See http://www.start.biz/home.htm ).

    However, there is something else that's highly relevant to the registered name issue. Under 'The Company, Limited Liability Partnership and Business Names (Sensitive Words and Expressions) Regulations 2009', the word 'Group' is classed as a 'sensitive' word. A business using a name containing such a word is required to obtain prior consent to do so from a specified Government or public body. Without this, they are acting unlawfully ( source: Guidance - incorporation and names (GP1) ).

    There would have to be an official record of any such consent, so in the absence of any other verifiable proof of their legitimacy, a perfectly reasonable due diligence question to put to PropertyWikia is...

    "Have you obtained prior consent from a Government or other body to use the name 'RMV Group', and if so, would you please disclose documentary proof?"


    But of course there's one Government body with which every single business of whatever legal structure must register, and that's Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs (HMRC). Which leads us neatly to the next bone of contention...

    THE VAT ISSUE

    A UK business that's 'distance selling' on the web such as PropertyWikia must apply for VAT registration once its VAT-taxable turnover derived from UK-based sources during the previous 12 months reaches the threshold of £70,000. ( Source: HM Revenue & Customs: When to register for UK VAT )

    In early September 2011, a number of affiliates started to query PropertyWikia's position on VAT — their failure to disclose a VAT number; the absence of any mention of VAT on the £109 area fees; receipts/invoices showing no VAT component and no VAT number. PropertyWikia's response to these concerns was to issue this statement on 12th September:


    “Why doesn't PropertyWikia charge VAT on areas?

    The coding cost/s for your area/s is/are classed as a reservation. VAT should not be levied against refundable reservation.

    Each area you order will transform into a *'Franchised Area' in October 2012 subject to your acceptance of its area franchise agreement.

    Your franchise agreement will be available in September 2012 in you language.

    Until acceptance or rejection of the franchise agreement you can generate and get paid commission and commission overrides and still get paid between now and October 2012 on you ordered areas as advertised.

    Your coding cost/s reserves your *franchised areas in your name until you accept the final franchise contract. Upon acceptance of the final contract your account will be billed any VAT owing under the transaction prevalent rate (currently 20%). This payment will be deducted from earnings.

    In 2012 all affiliates will get transformed into a franchise offering a local property website/portal dedicated to their HQ to attract more owners without having to invite any longer - supported by PropertyWikia.

    Affiliates will be provided with a local property portal/website and the required tools to operate as part of this franchise at no extra cost. Franchise can be cancelled at any time before signature.

    * More details to be released.”


    ( Source: PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Why doesn't PropertyWikia charge VAT on areas? )


    We got an explanation, then, of PropertyWikia's treatment of VAT on fees, but they completely ducked the legitimate questions about their current VAT status. So, to get to the bottom of all this, I gave HMRC’s VAT Helpline a ring (0845 010 9000) and asked an advisor if there's a VAT number for '3iCatalyst trading as PropertyWikia (part of the RMV Group)'.

    As I half expected, they said that if I can give them a VAT number they can tell me the name of the business it belongs to but they can’t do the opposite; it goes against their rules of confidentiality. Disappointing but fair enough.

    Then I thought: while I’ve got a very helpful HMRC advisor on the phone I'll pump them for their take on the company's treatment of VAT on area fees. So I got them to read the Affiliate Q&As web page where the statement was posted. Here's a summary of what the advisor had to say:

    The ‘VAT tax point’ — the point at which VAT must be levied on a supply — is the point at which the vendor receives payment for that supply. PropertyWikia may define an area fee as a 'refundable reservation' on a 'franchised area' but it CANNOT defer until acceptance of the franchise agreement settlement of any VAT element of a pre-paid fee. (See: Actual tax points: payments: refundable deposits )

    So there we have it... from the horse's mouth. In light of this, how should we interpret PropertyWikia's statement?

    Well I interpret it to mean that if the company hasn't been charging affiliates VAT to date, they must NOT be VAT registered. And that's because over the last 12 months, turnover from all UK sources — not just from area fees — can't have totalled £70,000. However they anticipate they will have reached that threshold and be VAT registered by October 2012 when franchise agreements are signed.

    But unfortunately, they haven’t applied the VAT tax point rules correctly; they've failed to understand that they can't defer VAT as proposed. Evidently not even one of "the best business minds in today’s business world" could get their grey matter round basic VAT law.

    But I can guess what you're thinking by now...

    "That's all very interesting, but there's a bloody great elephant in the room waving a big red flag in its trunk! Given PropertyWikia's claims about their sources of revenue, surely they would have needed to register for VAT months ago?"

    Okay, let's go check out the current figures for those sources on the 'About Us' page, under 'How We Make Money': PropertyWikia - About PropertyWikia.com ...

    Well, we don't have to look any further, do we, than 'Ad Revenue' at the top of the list for an answer to the question...

    Our Ad Revenue 2011
    £24,254,030.00 GBP

    "This figure indicates the pre-paid advertising order
    book’s balance for 2011 (fluctuates daily)."

    Notice the word 'pre-paid'. That doesn't mean pledged payment. That doesn't mean pending payment. Pre-paid means digits on the sales ledger. Cash in the bank. Only £70,000 of that figure (about 0.29%) would need to be sourced in the UK for the VAT-registration threshold to have been reached.

    And that's just revenue claimed for PropertyWikia. Don't forget, they say PropertyWikia is just a trade/brand name, so the business entity affiliates and third parties actually transact with must be the 3iCatalyst 'partnership'. Were we affiliates being charged VAT it would be collected by HMRC on 3iCatalyst's VAT returns.

    Therefore the turnover qualifying 3iCatalyst for VAT registration must include revenue derived from handling the claimed "investments of over £12.5 Billion", plus revenue derived from any other business done with the companies whose logos appear all over their home page, plus the claimed multi-million-pound PropertyWikia revenue. (Ref: 3icatalyst )

    [I've just noticed that within the last day or so they've removed all those logos and added their Canary Wharf address. But not to worry, the home page is archived as far back as January 2008, here: Internet Archive Wayback Machine .]

    So... these perfectly reasonable due diligence questions still remain for the company to answer unequivocally:

    "Is 3iCatalyst t/a PropertyWikia (part of the RMV Group) registered for VAT or is it not?"

    "If it is registered, what's your VAT number and why have you not charged VAT on area license fees to date?"

    "If it's not registered, given your claimed turnover, which far exceeds the VAT-registration threshold, why not?"


    And now, in addition...

    "Regarding your September 12th statement, why have you improperly applied VAT tax point law in your treatment of VAT on area fees?"

    Whilst on the subject of improperly applied law, let's deal with a very important issue I don't think has been aired...

    THE TRADING SCHEMES LAW ISSUE

    PropertyWikia is offering a network/multi-level marketing business opportunity, which the UK Government defines as a 'trading scheme'. As such, it falls under The Trading Schemes Regulations 1997.

    Under the terms of those regulations...


    "A promoter of, or a participant in, a trading scheme shall not accept from a participant joining the trading scheme any payment or an undertaking to make a payment of any sum exceeding £200 unless 7 days have expired from the making of the agreement relating to goods or services supplied or to be supplied under that agreement to the participant by the promoter or any other participant under the trading scheme."


    In layman's language... an MLM company cannot charge an enrolee more than £200 within the first 7 days of their joining the business.

    Yet, following their 24-hour trial period, an enrolling PropertyWikia affiliate is encouraged to fork out well in excess of that legal limit. They're offered a single area license costing £109 and the option to buy up to 11 more, discounted on a sliding scale when ordered at the same time. This is the price list:

    1 — £109.00
    2 — £196.20
    3 — £287.76
    4 — £374.96
    5 — £452.35
    6 — £523.20
    7 — £587.51
    8 — £654.00
    9 — £706.32
    10 — £719.40
    11 — £743.38
    12 — £719.40

    So the next query PropertyWikia need to deal with — before Trading Standards or City of London Police deal with them — is...

    "Why are you taking payments from new affiliates for more than 2 areas, in violation of Trading Schemes law?"

    So, ladies and gentlemen of the jury... 3iCatalyst trading as PropertyWikia (part of the RMV Group). Scam or no scam? Conspiracy to defraud or conspiracy to revolutionise the property market?

    You may like to retire, do your own due diligence, and consider your verdict.

    You can probably guess what my verdict is.
    PropertyWikia Members Details

    If you are a business and VAT registered we will pay VAT on your earnings. If you're registered for VAT/business tax in any country tell us your VAT number, if not leave blank:

  6. #81
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by aussiegold View Post
    Whip, I never claimed that I contacted the owner, or anybody else for that matter.
    On every listing you will find a link to contact the owner, but you must register as a buyer 1st. I chose not to.
    Just above the "contact owner" link is a button saying "report listing". This I did, and the property listing was suspended immediately, obviously without any human intervention. I presume the system has sent an email to the person responsible for the listing, notifying them of my report. As I stated above, I will keep a lookout for that property being re-listed.
    My thoughts are that this was probably what PW call a PAL(partial area listing). This can be done by an affiliate, but only for properties within their HQ (area selected at signup). The affiliate MUST provide contact details of the owner, and if applicable, the agent. The PW system then advises the owner that their property has been listed, and provides them login details for them to confirm/edit/delete the listing. It is NOT a valid listing (for the purposes of earning the affiliate commission) until verified by the owner.
    I am not making a stand for PW here, just sharing my limited understanding of how the website works. I have not listed any properties on my affiliate account at this time. I, like many, are still on the fence with this one. Time will tell.
    As an Affiliate you can list a property anywhere globally via a Realtor/Vendor and get the commission of $3,140 when it sells. The affiliate that owns that HQ area gets an over ride commission of $158. So some downlines have 200+ affiliates and over 1800 listings so some affiliates dont even have listings just 100's of over ride commissions accumulating.

    There have been over 3000 listings gone into the data base since I started from all affiliates.

    There is no worry sitting on the fence as there is alot of real estate out there.

    I wish you well.

  7. #82
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by terrycythbert View Post
    As an Affiliate you can list a property anywhere globally via a Realtor/Vendor and get the commission of $3,140 when it sells. The affiliate that owns that HQ area gets an over ride commission of $158. So some downlines have 200+ affiliates and over 1800 listings so some affiliates dont even have listings just 100's of over ride commissions accumulating.

    There have been over 3000 listings gone into the data base since I started from all affiliates.

    There is no worry sitting on the fence as there is alot of real estate out there.

    I wish you well.
    Either Terry Cuthbert is a complete and utter moron who doesn't have any idea what he's involved in, or he's one of the most blatant con men I've ever come across.

    What Cuthbert has described above is an almost perfect textbook definition of a pyramid SCHEME.

    Some affiliates don't even have listings, just hundreds of override commissions
    I must apologize to regular readers.

    I must confess, for a while there I really thought this was a serious problem in the making.

    I now realize it's just a low level pyramid scheme.

    It's not well planned OR well thought out.

    It's designed for people naive enough to think making money in real estate could possibly be as "easy" as Property Wikia and it's shills make out.

    ANYONE who thinks there is money to be made merely by stealing other peoples' listings is in for a rude shock.

    ANYONE who thinks a real estate company can offer a "sell in 12 weeks or we pay you" guarantee is in for a rude shock.

    ANYONE who thinks they can enter the real estate market without licenses, permits, VAT numbers is in for a rude shock.

    ANYONE who thinks Property Wikia or the RMV Group or 3icatalyst are anything more than virtual entities is in for a rude shock.

    e.g. In the UK, Propertywikia operates from an address given as: (Part of the RMV Group), Level 33, 25 Canada Square, Canary Wharf. The address is home to Citibank, but level 33 is advertised as being available as serviced and ‘virtual’ offices where ‘hot desks’ can be hired.

    I would encourage readers to further investigate the Property Wikia scam by reading this excellent investigative article on www.estateagenttoday.co.uk
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  8. #83
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    WOOHOO,

    Property Wikia has made it into the big time of online scams.

    It has it's own thread on the home of internet fraud MMG MoneyMakers Group
    AND

    Guess who's posting there under the nickname of Moneyrotator

    Yep, it's our very own Terry Cuthbert.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  9. #84
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  10. #85
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    PropertyWikia havent recieved any Police complaints perhaps you should show the Police report here to confirm you friends concerns.
    It is plain and simple no one gets paid until a property transaction has taken place and has settled or completed. This is normal in Real Estate.

  11. #86
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    WOOHOO,

    Property Wikia has made it into the big time of online scams.

    It has it's own thread on the home of internet fraud MMG MoneyMakers Group
    AND

    Guess who's posting there under the nickname of Moneyrotator

    Yep, it's our very own Terry Cuthbert.
    Yep the first thing we do in life is check all the scam posts as it attracts viewers. You either are there to tell your views, debate, banter or use it to recruit.

    Isnt this great fun guys. I love it

  12. #87
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Cuthbert
    It is plain and simple no one gets paid until a property transaction has taken place and has settled or completed. This is normal in Real Estate.
    That's not quite true, Terry.

    "Property Wikia" and the mysterious people behind it get paid their 109 dollars or pounds or whatever it is they're charging this week.

    That's the whole point of this type of scam.

    Everyone is looking over here to see how the scam works, while the fraudsters quietly bank the multiple $109 join up fees over there

    Members are out there working their as**s off stealing/getting listings when there's no chance they're going to make money that way.

    The clients aren't going to lose out, it's the members who are getting done over.

    It's like watching a ventriloquist.

    Everyone's watching the dummy, while the real work is being done by someone else.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  13. #88
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    That's not quite true, Terry.

    "Property Wikia" and the mysterious people behind it get paid their 109 dollars or pounds or whatever it is they're charging this week.

    That's the whole point of this type of scam.

    Everyone is looking over here to see how the scam works, while the fraudsters quietly bank the multiple $109 join up fees over there

    Members are out there working their as**s off stealing/getting listings when there's no chance they're going to make money that way.

    The clients aren't going to lose out, it's the members who are getting done over.

    It's like watching a ventriloquist.

    Everyone's watching the dummy, while the real work is being done by someone else.
    Sorry to disappoint you and stamp out your fire but my listings are being negotiated now between SELLER/REALTOR and BUYER

    This is hard work listing properties





    ##### 3 new listings today
    PropertyWikia - For Sale - South East, Wattle Downs, Manukau, New Zealand
    PropertyWikia - For Sale - South East, Botany Downs/Golflands, Manukau, New Zealand
    PropertyWikia - For Sale - East, Botany Downs/Golflands, Manukau, New Zealand

    Commission this month ONLY: $97,968.00 USD
    Total Commission accrued all months: $108,392.80 USD

    As a realist I know it takes 12 weeks to get paid.
    I highlight agian after 22 years of real estate this is normal to wait for both Vendor and Buyer to complete a sale and settle the transaction.

    Keep smiling

  14. #89
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by terrycythbert View Post
    Sorry to disappoint you and stamp out your fire but my listings are being negotiated now between SELLER/REALTOR and BUYER

    This is hard work listing properties

    ##### 3 new listings today
    PropertyWikia - For Sale - South East, Wattle Downs, Manukau, New Zealand
    PropertyWikia - For Sale - South East, Botany Downs/Golflands, Manukau, New Zealand
    PropertyWikia - For Sale - East, Botany Downs/Golflands, Manukau, New Zealand

    Commission this month ONLY: $97,968.00 USD
    Total Commission accrued all months: $108,392.80 USD

    As a realist I know it takes 12 weeks to get paid.
    I highlight agian after 22 years of real estate this is normal to wait for both Vendor and Buyer to complete a sale and settle the transaction.

    Keep smiling
    Umm,

    err,

    Tezza,

    I checked the listing you've given and here's the result I got when I clicked on the first (bolded) link:




    Honestly,

    sometimes I feel really, really sorry for some of the people caught up in these things, I really do.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  15. #90
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    Umm,

    err,

    Tezza,

    I checked the listing you've given and here's the result I got when I clicked on the first (bolded) link:




    Honestly,

    sometimes I feel really, really sorry for some of the people caught up in these things, I really do.
    All links work perfectly here sunshine. Perhaps a miner indescretion.

    http://www.propertywikia.com/property/8759
    http://www.propertywikia.com/property/8764
    http://www.propertywikia.com/property/8772

  16. #91
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by terrycythbert View Post
    PropertyWikia havent recieved any Police complaints perhaps you should show the Police report here to confirm you friends concerns.
    It is plain and simple no one gets paid until a property transaction has taken place and has settled or completed. This is normal in Real Estate.
    So the claims that PW will pay if a property doesn't sell is BS, right? C'mon, dude you are starting to contradict the hype...!
    It seems like in this "industry" common sense is not all that common!

  17. #92
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by laidback View Post
    So the claims that PW will pay if a property doesn't sell is BS, right? C'mon, dude you are starting to contradict the hype...!
    Nope the GUARNTEES are there to pay a VENDOR/SELLER after 12 weeks as per the website.

    Affiliates get the same but need to accumulate $3140 in the back office to claim the commission.
    They also need to have 5 affiliates under them and 5 listings amongst them. Afffiliates must be seen to train their downline.

    A sale of a property when settled or closed is when you as an affiliate get paid $3,140. It isnt free money.

    This is all in the website when you join as a FREE affilaite for the 24 hour period to navigate through the website.
    If joining make sure the person above you is familiar with navigating the website.

  18. #93
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by laidback View Post
    So the claims that PW will pay if a property doesn't sell is BS, right? C'mon, dude you are starting to contradict the hype...!
    It's perfectly clear to me;

    1) Pay Property £109 Wikia for the right to:

    2) be allocated a non existent "territory" whereupon:

    3) you have to steal a minimum of 175 listings from whatever source you can find them, get:

    4) Property Wikia to put your stolen listing on its' website, then

    5) run naked around the room 3 times while:

    6) whistling the theme from "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" as you:

    7) accrue commissions of at least 110% of ¾ of $120,000, hoping all the while:

    8) the fact neither Property Wikia or 3icatalyst exist outside of a website and a virtual office doesn't mean:

    9) they'll run away leaving you with:

    10) no commission and without:

    11) the £109, but with:

    12) the task of explaining to:

    13) those you've "signed up" as well as:

    14 The people and/or realtors whose listings you've thieved

    Perfectly simple, if you ask me.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  19. #94
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Date: 20th October 2011


    We have just added a new FAQ or Help file to PropertyWikia to assist you.

    The help/faq details are:
    Affiliates
    Website in Italian
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Italian

    Website in French
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in French

    Website in German
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in German

    Website in Spanish
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Spanish

    Website in Dutch
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Dutch

    Website in Russian
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Russian

    Website in Portuguese & Portuguese Brazillian
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Portuguese & Portuguese Brazillian

    Website in Mandarin & Cantonese (Chinese)
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Mandarin & Cantonese (Chinese)

    Website in Taiwanese
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Taiwanese

    Website in Japanese
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Japanese

    Website in Thai
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Thai

    Website in Philipino
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Philipino

    Website in Hindi, Bengali & Punjabi
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Hindi, Bengali & Punjabi

    Website in Arabic
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Arabic

    Website in Polish
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Polish

    Website in Ukranian
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Ukranian

    Website in Czech
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Czech

    Website in Hungarian
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Hungarian

    Website in Romanian
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Romanian

    Website in Serbo-Croatian
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Serbo-Croatian

    Website in Turkish
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Turkish

    Website in Vietnamese
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Vietnamese

    Website in Shanghainese
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Shanghainese

    Website in Javanese
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in Javanese

    Website in other languages
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Website in other languages

    NEW! Investor user accounts 20.12.2011
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - NEW! Investor user accounts 20.12.2011

    NEW! Agent/Realtor video 19.12.2011
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - NEW! Agent/Realtor video 19.12.2011

    NEW! Testimonials 19.12.2011
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - NEW! Testimonials 19.12.2011

    NEW! User friendly front end 19.12.2011
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - NEW! User friendly front end 19.12.2011

    NEW! About us video 19.12.2011
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - NEW! About us video 19.12.2011

    NEW! Video how to use listing forms 19.12.2011
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - NEW! Video how to use listing forms 19.12.2011

    NEW! Website 19.12.2011
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - NEW! Website 19.12.2011

    Weekly training webinars starting 20.12.2011
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Weekly training webinars starting 20.12.2011

    Weekly sales webinars starting 20.12.2011
    PropertyWikia - Affiliates FAQs - Weekly sales webinars starting 20.12.2011

  20. #95
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Quote Originally Posted by littleroundman View Post
    It's perfectly clear to me;

    1) Pay Property £109 Wikia for the right to:

    2) be allocated a non existent "territory" whereupon:

    3) you have to steal a minimum of 175 listings from whatever source you can find them, get:

    4) Property Wikia to put your stolen listing on its' website, then

    5) run naked around the room 3 times while:

    6) whistling the theme from "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" as you:

    7) accrue commissions of at least 110% of ¾ of $120,000, hoping all the while:

    8) the fact neither Property Wikia or 3icatalyst exist outside of a website and a virtual office doesn't mean:

    9) they'll run away leaving you with:

    10) no commission and without:

    11) the £109, but with:

    12) the task of explaining to:

    13) those you've "signed up" as well as:

    14 The people and/or realtors whose listings you've thieved

    Perfectly simple, if you ask me.
    FREE marketing website for VENDORS/SELLERS/REALTORS

    Any fake listings get removeD with Security Checks.

    Which theme song to Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? LMAO

  21. #96
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    That's nice,

    better instructions for affiliates on how to lose money.

    Has anybody received money in their bank accounts yet ???

    Or is it that Property Wikia have come up with more and better ways to get money into THEIR accounts ???

    A little bird tells me (oh, BTW, thanks little bird) that few, if any "affiliates" have received real money in their accounts.

    Just lots of "numbers on their screen"
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  22. #97
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Now, I ask you, does this look like a multi million dollar earning "business opportunity"

    or does it look like your typical, run of the mill internet scam:






    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  23. #98
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    Gee,

    3iCatalyst are a class act, aren't they ??

    Here they're boasting about: having "£8.3 Billion GBP" to invest back in 2008.

    In fact, they're so proud of their achievements, they used a free online press release company to trumpet their triumph:



    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

    (Free-Press-Release.com) January 14, 2008 -- 3iCatalyst are currently delivering £8.3 Billion GBP ‘new style’ funding to worldwide residential and commercial property developers.

    3iCatalyst is a new breed of investors, incubation and funding who are dedicated to delivering financial and expert help to worldwide businesses irrelevant of industry sector and or geographical location. 3iCatalyst work with almost any type of business whatever stage they are at or their existing value. We currently deal with businesses in the range of £5,000.00GBP to £2 Billion GBP.

    We help to start-up, build or improve businesses; creating strong relationships and partnerships with every client based on integrity, trust and mutual respect.

    To speed up return on investments and organically fuel the growth of your business, 3iCatalyst utilise the unique resources from some of the numerous companies we have developed. We have negotiated exclusive agreements with every company we’ve worked with, to assist our new clients with business growth and providing them valuable contracts and start-up or turnaround trade agreements.

    Being a multi-faceted revolutionary and unique company in the market place, we specialise in challenges, concentrating in the preparation and infrastructure of world wide start-ups, reconstructions and candidate Initial Public Offerings (IPO’s) Initial investments are attracted from our existing funds, Private Equity or our worldwide network of Angel Investors to fund growth.

    3iCatalyst’s competitive advantage comes directly from its powerful international network of experts and the strength, breadth and depth of our relationships in business. These underpin the value that we deliver to our clients and the returns we always produce for our investors. Getting investment is easy, but finding the right investors with expert advice who will add value to your company is priceless. That's why 3iCatalyst are the natural choice, as perfect partners to take your business to the ultimate limit.

    Founded by some of the best business minds in today’s business world, we strive to develop businesses that have significant potential for high growth and rapid return for investors. Perhaps businesses just like yours.

    3iCatalyst welcomes registrations from investors, experts, professionals, entrepreneurs and businesses requiring funding and/or rapid growth.

    For other press releases, or to submit business ideas or secure funding go to:

    3icatalyst
    Free-press-release.com 3iCatalyst a revolutionary ?No? VC Approach to Funding

    Classy, boys,

    Just oozing class
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  24. #99
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    YEE HAW !!

    Now Property Wikia has grown to be the "The Largest International Real Estate Directory"

    WOW, and it was only a few weeks back no one had even heard of Property Wikia.

    Time to sell the farm and get in on this bad boy, people.

    You can't lose:




    Property Wikia: The Largest International Real Estate Directory; Sell your property within 12 weeks or we'll PAY YOU $164 each week until it's SOLD! | Make Money Online
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

  25. #100
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    Re: Property Wikia - fraud on so many levels

    This is getting weally, weally modern,

    now there's even a Property Wikia (USA) Facebook page:
    www.facebook.com/pages/Property-Wikia-USA/



    yada, yada, yada



    and, when we check out the organizers webpage, we find you are now able to toast your Property Wikia successes in sparkling grape juice:

    Nature Pearl Product

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

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