Thread: Zeek Rewards !! How to get to $3K a month, starting as a free member !

Originally Posted by kschang

Got the reply... partial dodge. We don't really disagree, but I'm not sure he's seeing the problematic aspects. He's dealing with this like it's an MLM, not a potential Ponzi.

His position now is really the same as his position when he started replying on BehindMLM. He basically said "we don't disagree that much, I'm just not ready to call it a scam".

The issue with Troy is no matter how you want to parse this pro-distributor, pro-industry, pro-Christian, pro-American values speeches, he is rarely critical and at best is just neutral for any company. That may be fine for more complex businesses but Zeek is an obvious Ponzi if Tory is willing to do some basic analysis around the business model and revenue numbers. It just doesn't make sense when you have countless affiliate after affiliate saying they have hundreds of customers for dumping bids and not a single retail customer. How is that remotely sustainable and not a Ponzi?

In his reply to my comment, he implied that new companies should be given a "grace period" where they are recruiting affiliates instead of customers, and it's okay if they appear to be more pyramid or Ponzi than legal during that time. Unfortunately, he never explained the logic of that stance, how long is that grace period, or how far off track can they go.

Originally Posted by kschang

In his reply to my comment, he implied that new companies should be given a "grace period" where they are recruiting affiliates instead of customers, and it's okay if they appear to be more pyramid or Ponzi than legal during that time. Unfortunately, he never explained the logic of that stance, how long is that grace period, or how far off track can they go.

I've long believed it is more appropriate to use the phrase "endless chain recruiting" in preference to either "ponzi" or "pyramid" when discussing programs such as Zeek.

There is no "grace period" when endless chain recruiting is both possible and permissible in any business, startup or otherwise.

Originally Posted by kschang

In his reply to my comment, he implied that new companies should be given a "grace period" where they are recruiting affiliates instead of customers, and it's okay if they appear to be more pyramid or Ponzi than legal during that time. Unfortunately, he never explained the logic of that stance, how long is that grace period, or how far off track can they go.

I can see the argument for a grace period for a more traditional MLM with autoship product or service, where the money paid to distributors is from SALES.

With Zeek, there is the entire investment aspect that completely changes the scope of a "grace period". Zeek accumulates huge virtual point liabilities even if they claim they that it's not guaranteed and that they could drop the rate to a negative ROI at any time, the net effect of such a move is to collapose the entire company and all affiliates switch to 100% withdrawal to recover pennies on their remaining virtual points.

Troy is either viewing the entire analysis through the prism of a product-based MLM that pays commissions on sales, or he's purposefully being obtuse about this so as not to cast Zeek in a negative light.

The rabbit hole is getting deeper:

Troy Dooly June 25, 2012 at 7:58 am #


@Alex,
As always thanks for your continued support.
I agree that we need the critics. They hold me accountable, and give me additional information to review and think about.


You are correct that there are items I can’t share publicly due to the NDA I agreed to sign with Paul Burks. Although, not every CEO and Founder asks for one Paul did based on his own life experiences.


I respect his position, and it is not really any different from any CEO and founder I communicate with.
And, you are right, we can’t please everyone all the time… So I do my best to just make sure I do not violate my principles or the trust of others.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy
Reply


GlimDropper June 25, 2012 at 7:22 pm #


Hello again Troy,

You have a NDA with Paul? I am surprised to say the least. I understand now that Paul has told you or exposed you to information which you are contractually obligated not to reveal to Zeek Rewards affiliates or anyone else for that matter.


I would not insult you with asking what sorts of secrets you’re hiding for him but as I understand it a legal contract has three elements. They can loosely be described as an offer, acceptance of that offer and consideration (exchange of value). What of value did Paul exchange for your agreement to this contract?


Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Bolding mine.

I'm sure Troy will publish my comment and I really hope he answers the question.

I'm getting a bad feeling here.

As Oz pointed out:

Troy Dooly, April 21st 2012:

[61:20] Jimmy here’s the thing, I go under a non-disclosure with a boatload of companies. This, this man (Zeek Rewards CEO Paul Burks) does business the way you and I do business. I shook his hand, I made him a promise and he opened up his heart to me and told his team “just tell him what he needs to know. Whatever it is he says, whatever it is he asks for. Just, just say it and, and I trust him.

Troy Dooly, June 25th 2012:

There are items I can’t share publicly due to the NDA I agreed to sign with Paul Burks. Although, not every CEO and Founder asks for one Paul did based on his own life experiences.

Oz wrote:

I wonder at what point in the last two months was the shaking of hands and Dooly’s promise to Burks deemed not enough. And why.

Originally Posted by Troy Dooly

So I do my best to just make sure I do not violate my principles or the trust of others.

As they say, sometimes your best just isn't good enough.

I'm just posting an update on my exchange with Troy:

Troy Dooly June 25, 2012 at 8:15 pm #


@GlimDropper,

This is not new information. I have been very clear since my first Red Carpet Day that I was provided confidential information, and some information that I promised I would not share until Zeek published it. As you and I know this is a common business practice, not just something exclusive to Zeek.


However, my willingness to maintain confidentially doesn’t mean I not reveal any information that, if kept private would hard the distributors. As a matter of fact, it I did such a thing, I could be held criminally or civilly liable. Heck, even if I had only given my word, and never signed anything I could be held liable.


I guess you could view some things as secrets. But, why not call them secrets before I shared the fact I have an NDA? thinks like the qualifiers, which I have written about right here, and made it clear I could not reveal the details, until Zeek publishes them.


Not sure how we moved from Non Disclosure Agreement to a contract. But, I can gladly answer your question as it concerns the non Disclosure Statement.


1. Offer from Paul Burks – To answer any and all questions I ask of him or his team if I would agree to sign a Non Disclosure Statement.


2. Acceptance – I gladly agreed to sign an NDA based on Paul Burks offer.


3. Consideration – Trust, Respect and Open Communication.
Well, and I do get some pretty good lunches at the Village Grill when I visit the home office.


Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy



GlimDropper June 25, 2012 at 8:46 pm #


“.,… Not sure how we moved from Non Disclosure Agreement to a contract…,.”

A NDA, at least a formal one is a legal contract.

I’ve agreed not to divulge certain things at least within a certain time frame many times. Sometimes people reach out to me with information on a topic I’m interested in but, for example if I revealed it carelessly or prematurely it might in some way jeopardize the person sharing the info with me. But that isn’t a formal legal contract, i honor each of those agreements because I value the trust people have invested in me.

Would it be accurate to say your NDA with Paul only affects forward going issues? You don’t reveal what you may have been told about ZR’s upcoming compliance strategy until they do for example?

Can you state for the record that if you were aware of any irregularities in the program or of any issues which might negatively impact the Zeek Rewards affiliates you are in no way being inhibited from reporting on them?

If the above is true then allow me to apologize for the tone of my previous post. But I’m not sorry for asking about it.



Troy Dooly June 25, 2012 at 10:03 pm #


@GlimDropper,

I agree it would be seen as a legally binding contract.

From my point of view, “my word given” is as much a formal contract as my signature. And based on the fact I have said that publicly it should hold up in a court of law.

Ethics are ethics, plain and simple from my point of view. I live by a pretty simplistic set of standards. I do my best to always treat folks the way I would want to be treated. And when I fall short, I fix it as fast as I can.

My NDA really doesn’t involve any issues backwards or forward with the company. It covers proprietary information such as software, vender relationships, etc. and includes clauses on using or selling this information for my personal gain.

It doesn’t cover not talking about compliance strategies at all. If you are referring revealing the upcoming qualifiers, that is a verbal request that I said I would abide by.

I can also state for the record that if I were aware of any irregularities in the program or any issues which might negatively impact the Zeek rewards affiliates that I am in now way contractual inhibited in reporting on them.

I would never enter into any form of a contract that would STOP me from advocating for distributors and sharing with the public any issue which should be disclosed so current affiliates or prospective affiliates can do their complete due diligence.

There is no need to apologize, I am pretty sure I would have responded just as you did, if I were in your shoes.

Living An Epic Adventure,
Troy

Just an absolute lie.

You really do have to hand it to Mr Dooly, he knows his target market only too well.

Heaven forbid he should get into a discussion about why Zeek rewards is the only MLM/penny auction/description du jour which can offer the kind of returns being promised.

Still, it's his reputation, he can do what he will with it.

The pseudo MLM crowd will still be lapping up his prognostications after Zeek goes belly up, just as they have done with every other "next big thing" he's promot......err....reviewed.

The singer may change, but the song remains the same.

Huge thanks to Jimmy over at Oz's place for bringing the following to light.

Today's ZR training call.

At a bit after the one minute mark Dawn explains that one of their eWallet systems, nxPay can not be made to pay out affiliates until enough money has been deposited into it by the affiliates to cover the payout. This is a point she returns to after the 30 minute mark.

Oz is working on an update at his Behind MLM site and it should be posted presently.

And confirmation from the ZR Support site:

• 
  James Wood 3 hours ago
  this whole nxpay situation makes zero sense to me. As per tonight's call, Dawn is saying that comissions can't come out of nxpay unless enough bids are purchased through nxpay? So is she actually trying to say that Zeek cannot send funds to nxpay to pay affiliates their comissions? How is this possible?
  I am listening to the 'recorded statement from Dawn' right now, and I am very confused about this.
  I am not sure how she can possibly say that Zeek cannot send money to nxpay to pay members.
  Comment
  good answer!
• 
  Jennifer Blandy 3 hours ago
  was this on the QnA call or the 930 call???
  Comment
  good answer!
• 
  Mark 3 hours ago
  James,
  
  That sounds really weird. I need to go and listen to that call. I can't imagine her saying something like that. But if she did, hopefully a correction will be coming out.
  
  Being able to receive payments through NxPay should have nothing to do with how many bids we buy through NxPay.

I agree with Mark.

Further confirmation from about the 4 minute mark at this link.

I will be most interested to hear Mr. Dooly's opinion of this situation, I know for a fact someone's told him about it. ;)

Now we get to the pointy end of the Zeek saga where we find out who knew it was a HYIP ponzi all along and who thought it was a real business.

Wow, what a major tactical blunder by Dawn and Zeek to explain the eWallet in such blatant Ponzi terms.

This will embolden Zeek's critics, push those trapped in it who have been reading sites like this who are on the fence into the critic camp, and more importantly, push many affiliates to increase their withdrawal %. If Zeek has a cash flow problem now, wait until investors start withdrawing money!

If you put any other business that is not a Ponzi in the exact same situation, they would just revert back to paying checks. The entire "growing exponentially" excuse making paying by check untenable is hogwash. Any business with that massive of a growth spurt, meaning tons of new revenue/affiliates/customers, would gladly hire the extra temp staff and pay the accounting fees for e-payroll companies to create checks. All you have to do is give the payroll companies a file with amount, payee, and address and they handle it all automatically. It's called paycheck & mail automation.... we've had it since about 1989.

Well said Mitch.

I joined ZR a few days back just to read the support forum and listen to the calls. The person who's link I joined with is a prominent poster over on MoneyMakerGroup. We've exchanged a few e-mail's and they are draining their account as fast as they can. And putting some of their profits into bidify, credit where it's due, they know when to jump a sinking ship. This isn't their first trip to this type of rodeo but I feel bad for the ZR true believers, they'll get fleeced.

Originally Posted by GlimDropper

Well said Mitch.

I joined ZR a few days back just to read the support forum and listen to the calls. The person who's link I joined with is a prominent poster over on MoneyMakerGroup. We've exchanged a few e-mail's and they are draining their account as fast as they can. And putting some of their profits into bidify, credit where it's due, they know when to jump a sinking ship. This isn't their first trip to this type of rodeo but I feel bad for the ZR true believers, they'll get fleeced.

If the situation is as bad s it looks just with the two Zeek calls today and people on support forum getting slow-paid, it may be difficult for existing Zeek affiliates to get all their money out. You have two variables: how much money Zeek has and when they will pay, and the daily profit share which may decline if affiliates start changing their reinvestment % en masse.

I think you need to have your withdrawals already in queue and hopefully those will be honored. I couldn't imagine the anxiety of those needing to wait 90 days + Zeek 2-week withdrawal window + Zeek 1-2 week delay + eWallet payment that may or may not happen depending on your eWallet.

Now is the perfect time to setup an eWallet conversion service. "I take SolidTrustPay, AlertPay, and NxPay... send me your money and I will pay you in CASH via PayPal the same day. Cost of conversion is 20% fee."

Originally Posted by GlimDropper

And putting some of their profits into bidify, credit where it's due, they know when to jump a sinking ship.

This is the bit I really dislike.

There's some really genuine people about to have a really nasty and painful experience.

Now, now, Mitch... that's usury. :D But I was about to say 50% fee. :D

The natives are getting restless:

• EMPLOYEE
  Jason Woodbury (Moderator) 1 hour ago
  Before everybody starts thinking that the sky is falling, just take step back....We are trying to nitpick a little bit too much right at this second, without having anybody that can actually explain it. "If you don't know all the variables, any conclusion you draw is probably wrong"
  Let's get a little better explanation before we start drawing too many conclusions.
  
  First of all she said that the other e-wallets are going to be working normally now. Correct? That means that you CAN still get paid. I am not a programmer, and I am not nearly as experienced with some of this stuff as other people on here. I get that.
  She says the API has been put in place (whatever that means) and that the STP payments should be much quicker now that it has been changed. Didn't anybody else hear that?
  instead of talking about all of the GREAT news, we start a whirlwind of other ideas. yes, it needs explained. Absolutely. No doubt about that. 10 good things on the call, and 1 vaguely, possibly negative (but we don't even really know), and the 1 possible negative thing is what everybody focuses on. Can we give Zeek the benefit of the doubt at least until we can hear a clarification on it?
  Thanks,
  
  Jason
  Comment
  good answer!
• 
  Mark 1 hour ago
  Jason,
  
  API is Application Program Interface. Cleaning that up doesn't mean the what once took a week will now take an hour. It was another poor explanation of why STP had been slow and taking over a week for people to receive their funds. It doesn't fly either. So it's not good news the way it was explained. It cast even more doubt on what she was saying in general. Perhaps it is simply she shouldn't be talking about such things because she doesn't know what the heck she is saying. That's probably the least sinister explanation there is for what she said on the call concerning NxPay and concerning the API changes speeding up the STP payments.
  Comment
  good answer!
• 
  Zeek Master 41 minutes ago
  Jason - it is "negative" because it contradicts everything we've been told to date. Zeek did a massive push to get us all into NxPay. Every affiliate assumes that the "going paperless" and moving away from checks would make using ANY eWallet simple but it has been anythign but. Every affiliate assumes that if Zeek needs to pay us, Zeek just wires money from Zeek's bank to the eWallet. But Dawn directly contradicted these basic, fundamental assumptions. That's why you are seeing all this.... umm, excitement.
  
  And it probably doesn't help that some of us are still waiting for our 6/18 payment, with 6/25 here today and who knows how long that delay will be.
  Comment
  good answer!
• 
  Rj Sherman 24 minutes ago
  I just want to be Paid On time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  Comment
  good answer!
• 
  Jennifer Blandy 18 minutes ago
  Its not the sky is falling...its 2+2 isnt equaling 4. We just want a clear reason. We are perfectly capable of waiting on growth pains if th reasons are legit. Maybe someone else just needs to explain. We are here on a private forum for that reason. All the positive things she said about STP are juzt words when people are waiting on money. There are people who have quit their jobs because of zeek.....this is serious business.

Originally Posted by Jennifer Blandy

There are people who have quit their jobs because of zeek.....this is serious business.

Exactly the same as when ADSurf Daily and a squillion other HYIP ponzis collapsed.

Despite what ANYONE says, there ARE genuine people whose lives are about to be wrecked.

ZeekRewards COO caught in major blunder on how eWallets work:

Following is an exact quote (except the "uhs" and "okay") from the June 5th leadership call, starting at about the 3:30 mark

When you take out your wallet out of your purse or your backpocket whatever money you have, you personally put in there, is the only money you have you can use to pay for your groceries with. You may have some cards in there, you may have some checks in there, but if we are taking about cash, which is how an eWallet works, whatever you guys would use, to go ahead make purchases from us with, is what's in the eWallet, is what we can turn around and pay payroll with. It's not a depositing bank account.

However, this explanation DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS what NXSystems says on their website:

Your company establishes an NxPay® account whereby you deposit your payroll / commissions funds (by check, wire transfer or ACH). Then each of your independent representatives establishes an NxPay® account as well. Once all of the accounts have been set-up, your company creates a spreadsheet (within your NxPay® account) that tells NxPay® how you want to distribute the funds deposited.

Direct Marketing / Multi Level Marketing | NXSYSTEMS

You *do* deposit funds to eWallet provider and distributes them to people you want to pay, who also have eWallet accounts with the same provider. Everybody works this way, including AlertPay, SolidTrust Pay, Payza, Liberty Reserve, even PayPal, the granddaddy of them all.

So either Dawn Wright-Olivares is crazy and left a recording explaining absolutely bullsh__, or she lied. You decided which one. Either way, she's ABSOLUTELY COMPLETELY WRONG about how eWallet works.

Originally Posted by littleroundman

Exactly the same as when ADSurf Daily and a squillion other HYIP ponzis collapsed.

Despite what ANYONE says, there ARE genuine people whose lives are about to be wrecked.

Excellent point and we would hope Troy Dooly would can do a special on the dangers of HYIP's. I read on other forums about people buying new cars and homes, taking on debt expecting their Zeek income to last forever with this grand new business. One Zeek affiliate wrote today in the forum how great Zeek is because her daughter can now go to Bible college. It would suck to run out of money after the first semester of Bible college. Even those who aren't hit financially, there are a ton of reputations that will be ruined.

From Troy's perspective, he should realize how damaging this will be to the MLM industry. The magic of Zeek is that it took a clever HYIP and marketed it to MLM'ers who then brought in their downline sheep to be fleeced. The social proof was amazing. The magic of solving the problem of 97% of the people losing money was found and no one but the critics asked "where is the money coming from?". At least in the HYIP world you are dealing with folks who are accustomed to shenanigans and are essentially just gambling.

Originally Posted by Mitch McDeere

At least in the HYIP world you are dealing with folks who are accustomed to shenanigans and are essentially just gambling.

Too true.

You can bet your bottom dollar there won't be a single regular HYIP player who losses a cent when the end comes.

I can't imagine there'll be too many MLM gurus with the initials TD but who will remain nameless will go short in the fodder department because of what is about to happen.

The only question remaining is "bang or whimper"

Please remove the real names and facebook images of the private forum users you are copying and pasting to this thread. You have not obtained permission to disclose usernames or images from these people. At least behindmlm has the courtesy to not include this in their copying and pasting these forum posts.
thank you

One of the more poignant ponzi fallout stories I recall was of a lady in Florida who after a whirlwind romance with a guy who turned out to be a ponzi scammer lost about everything she owned to clawbacks (and not Dawn's kind of clawbacks). It's hard to say how much of her actions were being foolish verses how culpable she was but as part of the courting process Mr. Ponzi scammer was trying to impress her with how wealthy and successful he was. She owned a home and a luxury car but was still making payments on both, he swept in and used money from his scheme to pay those off for her.

Less than six months after they met they were married and all her debts were paid and his bubble burst. When the authorities stepped in to seize his assets they also took everything she owned as well because most of the money used to pay for her things were the proceeds of his crime. She lost her home, her car, much of her savings and her husband. All because she unwittingly married a criminal.

The only upside is that the victim restitution fund was better financed than it might otherwise have been if he'd spent it all on hookers and blow.

Good point. We can leave the employees in, but leave the affiliate names out may be a good idea.

In the future, I suggest posting image with sections blurred, include text later with sections "[redacted]"