Banners Broker HYIP ponzi scam

[NikSam]

You are right NikSam. In Canada we have no jails, our police investigate people and crime just for the fun of it, and when caught, give them a lollipop and tell them to be good boys and girls from now on. Our lawyers just sit on patios and discuss hockey instead of doing the job the taxpayers pay them. The judges, we don't have any, as who needs them when nobody gets arrested and charged. Everybody in Canada just goes around conning people into scams because of our LAZY and inept legal system knowing they won't get charged with a crime. After all, the Canadian system is based on the UK system and we are just trying to improve on it.

Yeap, you got it pretty much correct :)

Ken stop takin any statement about Canada as a personal offense, I speak of personal experiences on several occasions and a lot of people can support what i say , Canada in several cases was so dumb that let people under the investigation and charged run away from a country without any problems at the border, people charged with crime could easily wire their proceeds to the offshore banks (as if Canada never heard of account freeze)
and the stats on prosecution of financial crimes and their closing the eyes on major money laundering going on across the country for a decade are the real indicator - they do not do their job.

If it makes you feel better – make fun of the Ukrainian and Russian legal system (where I am from), those just completely f**ked
and people who should be in jails are the judges, if you cannot bribe the judge you can always bribe a politician who will press on the judge.
When you go to the investigator with evidence enough to lock some criminal up, the investigator goes to the criminal and asks for money to make the case disappear.

P.S. On the other hand, maybe you should continue. You say hilarious stuff when you pissed.

[Fat City, LA]

Very interesting. Mark Ghobril is in UK to winess for Septic Simon Sewage.

Also:
Plaintiff is looking for testimonial emails.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=733129606763270&id=398614356881465

[Joe_Shmoe]

Very interesting. Mark Ghobril is in UK to winess for Septic Simon Sewage.

Also:
Plaintiff is looking for testimonial emails.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=733129606763270&id=398614356881465

This is starting to get interesting now.

Are you sure Mark Ghobril is in the UK? I thought they had to move the hearing to a court with video conferencing facilities to enable the Trans-Atlantic scumbags to appear?

[Della Cate]

This is starting to get interesting now.

Are you sure Mark Ghobril is in the UK? I thought they had to move the hearing to a court with video conferencing facilities to enable the Trans-Atlantic scumbags to appear?


Over on the BB Ponzi Scam FB page, Demian has said:-

"Mark G., Keith L., Simon S and his wife Julie D. showed up. Seems like Mark even traveled over here from the US to support the defence. Anyway, make your own judgements about these 3 together in a room...lol"

Gets better by the minute, doesn't it?

[Joe_Shmoe]

Over on the BB Ponzi Scam FB page, Demian has said:-

"Mark G., Keith L., Simon S and his wife Julie D. showed up. Seems like Mark even traveled over here from the US to support the defence. Anyway, make your own judgements about these 3 together in a room...lol"

Gets better by the minute, doesn't it?

It does Della, I hope this opens a huge can of worms for the main pimps involved. :RpS_smile:

[baylee]

Yeap, you got it pretty much correct :)

Ken stop takin any statement about Canada as a personal offense, I speak of personal experiences on several occasions and a lot of people can support what i say , Canada in several cases was so dumb that let people under the investigation and charged run away from a country without any problems at the border, people charged with crime could easily wire their proceeds to the offshore banks (as if Canada never heard of account freeze)
and the stats on prosecution of financial crimes and their closing the eyes on major money laundering going on across the country for a decade are the real indicator - they do not do their job.

If it makes you feel better – make fun of the Ukrainian and Russian legal system (where I am from), those just completely f**ked
and people who should be in jails are the judges, if you cannot bribe the judge you can always bribe a politician who will press on the judge.
When you go to the investigator with evidence enough to lock some criminal up, the investigator goes to the criminal and asks for money to make the case disappear.

P.S. On the other hand, maybe you should continue. You say hilarious stuff when you pissed.

LOL, I seem to remember a Canadian (Saint Nick from P2P) that is hiding in a coconut tree in the Philippines. Of course that was after he woke up from a coma and found out the Mounties were after him!

[Mundorf]

Yeap, you got it pretty much correct :)

Ken stop takin any statement about Canada as a personal offense, I speak of personal experiences on several occasions and a lot of people can support what i say , Canada in several cases was so dumb that let people under the investigation and charged run away from a country without any problems at the border, people charged with crime could easily wire their proceeds to the offshore banks (as if Canada never heard of account freeze)
and the stats on prosecution of financial crimes and their closing the eyes on major money laundering going on across the country for a decade are the real indicator - they do not do their job.

If it makes you feel better – make fun of the Ukrainian and Russian legal system (where I am from), those just completely f**ked
and people who should be in jails are the judges, if you cannot bribe the judge you can always bribe a politician who will press on the judge.
When you go to the investigator with evidence enough to lock some criminal up, the investigator goes to the criminal and asks for money to make the case disappear.

P.S. On the other hand, maybe you should continue. You say hilarious stuff when you pissed.


Sorry for this off topic moment....but....there is a lack of logic....stop takin -whatever - as a personal offense - meaning - you are not pissed...and then ...."when you pissed"... hm

[Della Cate]

It does Della, I hope this opens a huge can of worms for the main pimps involved. :RpS_smile:

Will it drag in Mark "Twice Ya Money!" Stokes and Little Jamie, I wonder? Both have scuttled off elsewhere and make no reference to their happy days in BB.

Speaking of Little Jamie, he has now opened a coaching programme for wannabe online marketeers. (Well I assume that is what it is for. It could be giving hints and tips on how to choose your bog brush for all I know.)

Assuming it is for wannabe online gurus, will his first instruction be "First choose your coffee shop!" - because he seems to work out of coffee shops. Or garden sheds. Why does he do this, do you think? Do you think his mother throws him out of the house, as she wants to keep it tidy for when her friends come round for a game of bridge and a cheese roll?

[littleroundman]

Do you think his mother throws him out of the house, as she wants to keep it tidy for when her friends come round for a game of bridge and a cheese roll cucumber sandwich with the crusts removed

Please show some respect,

We all know Jamie is no run-of-the-mill cheese roll eating ponzi pimp, he's got class

[Ken Roklin]

Yeap, you got it pretty much correct :)

Ken stop takin any statement about Canada as a personal offense, I speak of personal experiences on several occasions and a lot of people can support what i say , Canada in several cases was so dumb that let people under the investigation and charged run away from a country without any problems at the border, people charged with crime could easily wire their proceeds to the offshore banks (as if Canada never heard of account freeze)
and the stats on prosecution of financial crimes and their closing the eyes on major money laundering going on across the country for a decade are the real indicator - they do not do their job.

If it makes you feel better – make fun of the Ukrainian and Russian legal system (where I am from), those just completely f**ked
and people who should be in jails are the judges, if you cannot bribe the judge you can always bribe a politician who will press on the judge.
When you go to the investigator with evidence enough to lock some criminal up, the investigator goes to the criminal and asks for money to make the case disappear.

P.S. On the other hand, maybe you should continue. You say hilarious stuff when you pissed.

Hey, I'm not pissed, just figure some of your comments are funny and need a funny response. Your experience with the legal system is just that, your experience, and that doesn't mean that that is the norm. Several cases does not equal every case. Stats are stats and I can quote stats that show Canada, for the most part, is not what you claim. Your comments about Canada are applicable to most countries. Most countries have "several" cases" like you claim where Canada has not done their job. If I could be bothered I would take the time to quote you the many cases where Canada has acted in a timely manner on white collar crime, but, we have been over this in the past and you have your views and I have mine and nothing we say is going to change that.

What are the other countries doing to charge Driscoll, Stepsys and all the other top promoters worldwide in this scam now knowing that BBI was a Ponzi from the start? They are as guilty as Chris and Raj. Without these promoters BBI wouldn't have gotten off the ground. No recruiting = no members = no business! Are the authorities in the countries in which they operate slow and lazy or does it take time to investigate and charge them?

[laidback]

LOL, I seem to remember a Canadian (Saint Nick from P2P) that is hiding in a coconut tree in the Philippines. Of course that was after he woke up from a coma and found out the Mounties were after him!LOL! Wasn't there a show about the Mounties years ago? Dudley Do Right?

[Whip]

LOL! Wasn't there a show about the Mounties years ago? Dudley Do Right?

http://newsjunkiepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/dudleydoright500.jpg

[Della Cate]

Over on the BB Ponzi Scam FB page (many thanks for this cracker by the way - especially to the indefatigable Tara!), we have this:-

8539

He only introduced TWO people eh? And got only £24 for his trouble?

Oh, yeah?????

[EagleOne]

LOL! Wasn't there a show about the Mounties years ago? Dudley Do Right?

And he was in love with his horse Nell.

[Beacon]

You cannot add the money that came in and the money that came out. That is double counting the figures. For example, the 6m in the Isle of man account most likely was generated from funds that came in via the payza/stp/other mechanisms and lodged there for 'rainy day'.
Just count the money that came in and you have the figure or thereabouts.

I was assuming the Isle of Man money came from direct credit card or other transactions to Smith rather than through the other payment processors mentioned because I didn't see that account mentioned in the Canadian report while it mentions all the other Bank Accounts. If not the 67 is about 60 million ballpark. Any further corrections or possibilities. dont foprget the 60/67 million is just what has been uncovered so far. Im surprised it is as high at that but pending someone clarifying me it seems it is at least in that region.

[Beacon]

Yeap, you got it pretty much correct :)

Ken stop takin any statement about Canada as a personal offense,


While I agree somewhat with you To be fair to Ken (who I assume is Canadian ) you did claim the Canadian justice system was inept and run by lazy people. He probably has every right and reason to view this in a personal light.
Also dont forget that apart from India ( where the case hasnt progressed) and Isle of Man (which to be fair brought about the Canadian situation), Canada is the only jurisdiction who have acted on this. Also it has acted in an unprecedented manner giving broad and sweeping powers to extra jurisdictional liquidators.


I speak of personal experiences on several occasions and a lot of people can support what i say ,


Great because otherwise you are depending on "Argument from authority" and hearsay which is fallacious and unsupported.


Canada in several cases was so dumb that let people under the investigation and charged run away from a country without any problems at the border,


Can you cite the cases? And can you show how these don't happen in similar juristictions?


people charged with crime could easily wire their proceeds to the offshore banks (as if Canada never heard of account freeze)
and the stats on prosecution of financial crimes and their closing the eyes on major money laundering going on across the country for a decade are the real indicator - they do not do their job.


I would appreciate you supplying the stats because I think perhaps they are reports i already supplied. But how does this make Canada lazy or inept or a haven for money laundering as distinct from say UK or Luxembourg or Switzerland or elsewhere?


If it makes you feel better – make fun of the Ukrainian and Russian legal system (where I am from), those just completely f**ked
and people who should be in jails are the judges, if you cannot bribe the judge you can always bribe a politician who will press on the judge.
I really dont think russia and Ukraine ( heavily influenced by the russian system historically) are a fair comparison to Canada which is one of the most open free human rights supporting and non violent countries in the world.

But Im not going into a "pick on Ukraine and russia" debate here. While they are not Canada they also deserve some respect or at least their people do.


When you go to the investigator with evidence enough to lock some criminal up, the investigator goes to the criminal and asks for money to make the case disappear.

I dont believe this happens in Canada and if it does it is isolated and criminal.



P.S. On the other hand, maybe you should continue. You say hilarious stuff when you pissed.

While loathe to troll ... On this last point Im happy to agree.

[Beacon]

Stats are stats and I can quote stats that show Canada, for the most part, is not what you claim.


As I queried your interlocutor please feel free to do so and both of you will raise the level of debate from unsupported hearsay to actual evidence. And remember to refer to me if you are using sources i supplied :)


Your comments about Canada are applicable to most countries.

I dont know about this place is it between Morocco and Mozambique?


Most countries have "several" cases" like you claim where Canada has not done their job. If I could be bothered I would take the time to quote you the many cases where Canada has acted in a timely manner on white collar crime, but, we have been over this in the past and you have your views and I have mine and nothing we say is going to change that.
Now THAT is exactly why people should get involved in a proper debate. If you cant support you claims I suggest you dont make them! Also if you are going to adopt a "to lazy to bother" and "no point in doing anything as it will change nothing" stance then you are emulating the charistics you were suggesting Canadians do not have... which is sort of self contradictory.


What are the other countries doing to charge Driscoll, Stepsys and all the other top promoters worldwide in this scam now knowing that BBI was a Ponzi from the start? They are as guilty as Chris and Raj.


Correct but that is called "tu quote" and is another logical fallacy. Two wrongs dont make a right.


Without these promoters BBI wouldn't have gotten off the ground. No recruiting = no members = no business! Are the authorities in the countries in which they operate slow and lazy or does it take time to investigate and charge them?

That is a false dichotomy! It may also be both or neither and you may also have an "excluded middle". I was only discussing "critical thinking" to a neighbour this morning. I seem to identify lack of these elements everwhere. If that annoys you I am sorry but I dont regret identifying them.

[Beacon]

This is starting to get interesting now.

Are you sure Mark Ghobril is in the UK? I thought they had to move the hearing to a court with video conferencing facilities to enable the Trans-Atlantic scumbags to appear?


I read Demians email and it would be far better for him to contact the liquidator and ask the liquidator to attend. While many may not be SS downline the liquidator has an extensive list of claimants and further evidence which support the claim of BB being a ponzi. The way would then be clear to paint a picture of SS involvement in BB and a host of other ponzis for years before the liquidation and indeed in other similar schemes after it. It would be beneficial to point out how ponzi players work in roping in victims; getting direct money ( as in Damians case ) or kickbacks ( as in other cases); leaving/ceasing recruiting in the scheme while denying any links with higher management decisions or responsibilities to pay back any money; Several schemes are kept cooking at different stages at the same time and players jump ship to the next scheme. It is fairly easy to illustrate this with SS in the case of BB,Empower, MAPS

[HARRISON]

The Court Judgement is in:

Trustee in Bankruptcy, Corporate Insolvency, Restructuring, Consulting, and Corporate Finance - Active Files (http://www.spergel.ca/corporate/activefiles_bn.php)

[Brenda]

The Court Judgement is in:

Trustee in Bankruptcy, Corporate Insolvency, Restructuring, Consulting, and Corporate Finance - Active Files (http://www.spergel.ca/corporate/activefiles_bn.php)

Yes! Unfortunately though, had great difficulty reading the Judge's handwritten 10 page judgement? Let's hope the Judge is better than his handwritting.

On a separate issue, does anyone think that Driscoll expected this to go this big when he first started out on this journey? Does he not in a way implicate himself as a recruiter? Is he not part of the reason BB got as big as it did?

[Della Cate]

Yes! Unfortunately though, had great difficulty reading the Judge's handwritten 10 page judgement? Let's hope the Judge is better than his handwritting.

On a separate issue, does anyone think that Driscoll expected this to go this big when he first started out on this journey? Does he not in a way implicate himself as a recruiter? Is he not part of the reason BB got as big as it did?

Agree on all points, Brenda!

(The handwriting is bad, but I once had a boss who had truly terrible handwriting, so I shall have a go. It would be helpful if someone at Spergel Inc typed it all up, but maybe they can't read it that well either.)

[Della Cate]

Anyone remember our old friend, Nigel Albright? Up until yesterday, his website was still there, promoting a link to BB - although the link was only to the "Temporarily Closed" BB website.

Now, today, anyone looking for his website is confronted with this:-
8548
Maybe he has at last thrown the towel in on BB. Mind you, he is now pushing Leafit (formerly VLEAF, so I believe) over on Pinterest; so he too has moved on to the next "big" thing. Have to admire his persistence, he does keep on trying. Wonder how much he lost on BB? The last he said on his site was that he had put in about £1,200, but only withdrawn $50 (in the days when people still could get money out - i.e. pre 2013) So not that great a move, eh?

I'd like to say "better luck next time" but I really don't wish luck in these ventures to people who don't seem to learn from their mistakes.

[Della Cate]

Actually, has the main BB website now gone? I cannot find it anywhere.

[Mundorf]

No,it's still there...oh and who is there on BB Facebook page as first to "happily" bring the new court documents - Iain Sherriff - he is a real discover isn't he.

[Mundorf]

Iain Sherriff...a true scam horse with dragon face and snake skin now in rejection...so Iain..is the new skin already renewed and ready for new adventures and your forum shooting gallery preserved and ready for new Jurassic park drama ?...do not play to much roles ,Iain....you might forget who you really are.

[NikSam]

...
On a separate issue, does anyone think that Driscoll expected this to go this big when he first started out on this journey? Does he not in a way implicate himself as a recruiter? Is he not part of the reason BB got as big as it did?

Yes, Ian expected it to go the way he does not want to. That is why he opened the liquidation to every victim. He estimated the outcome if he files as the only creditor with millions (of virtual / illegal gains) it might back fire and he needed the mass claims. At this point he already made a lot of money on BB, and trying to get couple mills more, if not – well, he tried. But he probably did not think it might lead to the future clawbacks.

On the other hand, we do not know what kind of deal Ian signed with liquidators, after all he is the one who hired them.

[Fat City, LA]

On the other hand, we do not know what kind of deal Ian signed with liquidators, after all he is the one who hired them.

All the criminal side stuff will supercede anything involving the liquidation.

Some of the plaintiffs in the liquidation seem to think they are still getting millions.
In reality, even 5 cents on the dollar of seed $ only would be a bonus.

[Dreamstealer]

On the other hand, we do not know what kind of deal Ian signed with liquidators, after all he is the one who hired them.

Under UK law the liquidators can't favour one party over another. Quite often a liquidation doesn't go the way the people who started it want.

Thinking of poor old Mr Sherriff and how little he made- has anyone asked him if he was also on a salary for running the forum and helping to mislead thousands?

[Dreamstealer]

Anyone remember our old friend, Nigel Albright? Up until yesterday, his website was still there, promoting a link to BB - although the link was only to the "Temporarily Closed" BB website.

Now, today, anyone looking for his website is confronted with this:-
8548
Maybe he has at last thrown the towel in on BB. Mind you, he is now pushing Leafit (formerly VLEAF, so I believe) over on Pinterest; so he too has moved on to the next "big" thing. Have to admire his persistence, he does keep on trying. Wonder how much he lost on BB? The last he said on his site was that he had put in about £1,200, but only withdrawn $50 (in the days when people still could get money out - i.e. pre 2013) So not that great a move, eh?

I'd like to say "better luck next time" but I really don't wish luck in these ventures to people who don't seem to learn from their mistakes.

Leafit? Leave it.

[Beacon]

DUTY TO PROVIDE ACCESS AND CO-OPERATION TO THE RECEIVER
http://www.spergel.ca/corporate/resources/banners/Order%20of%20Newbould%20J%20issued%20October%2015% 202014%20%28Further%20Supplemental%20Order%29.pdf
Orders under 4 (v) "Any other entity"

5.
THIS COURT ORDERS that all persons having notice of this Order advise the Receiver of the existence
of any books, documents, securities, contracts, orders,corporate and accounting records, and any other papers, records
and information of any kind related to the business or affairs of the Associated Corporations, and any computer programs, computer tapes, computer disks, servers, electronic backups, or other data storage media containing any such information (the foregoing, collectively, "Records") in their possession or control in relation to the Associated
Corporations and shall provide to the Receiver or permit the Receiver to make, retain and take away copies thereof
and grant to the Receiver unfettered access to and use of accounting, computer, software and physical facilities relating
thereto [/quote]

Does this not mean that "other enties" who have a presence in Canada e.g. Linkedin and Facebook and other social networks have to give the receiver details of all their groups which support or publicise Banners Broker as a business and give the identities of all the group admins and managers and group members to the receiver?

I wonder if anyone has brought htis to the attention of the receiver since groups still exist promoting BB and the serial l ponzi pimps are running them . even the ones that are not active should be given over to the receiver and you will no doubt find a long list of current ponzi pimps currently operating on other schemes but certainly involved in pimping BB. Facebook and Linkedin have this information. Indeed the groups still exist even if some are members only or locked.

[Mundorf]

That's why Iain Sherriff closed his rubbish forum today.He has red the same and thinks doing so he could delete the past...no way Iain,you can't run away from what you did and you did lot of bullshit.

[Brenda]

DUTY TO PROVIDE ACCESS AND CO-OPERATION TO THE RECEIVER
http://www.spergel.ca/corporate/resources/banners/Order%20of%20Newbould%20J%20issued%20October%2015% 202014%20%28Further%20Supplemental%20Order%29.pdf
Orders under 4 (v) "Any other entity"

5.
THIS COURT ORDERS that all persons having notice of this Order advise the Receiver of the existence
of any books, documents, securities, contracts, orders,corporate and accounting records, and any other papers, records
and information of any kind related to the business or affairs of the Associated Corporations, and any computer programs, computer tapes, computer disks, servers, electronic backups, or other data storage media containing any such information (the foregoing, collectively, "Records") in their possession or control in relation to the Associated
Corporations and shall provide to the Receiver or permit the Receiver to make, retain and take away copies thereof
and grant to the Receiver unfettered access to and use of accounting, computer, software and physical facilities relating
thereto

Does this not mean that "other enties" who have a presence in Canada e.g. Linkedin and Facebook and other social networks have to give the receiver details of all their groups which support or publicise Banners Broker as a business and give the identities of all the group admins and managers and group members to the receiver?

I wonder if anyone has brought htis to the attention of the receiver since groups still exist promoting BB and the serial l ponzi pimps are running them . even the ones that are not active should be given over to the receiver and you will no doubt find a long list of current ponzi pimps currently operating on other schemes but certainly involved in pimping BB. Facebook and Linkedin have this information. Indeed the groups still exist even if some are members only or locked.[/QUOTE]


To simplify, we listened to weekly webinars or transcripts of webinars, which must be held somewhere on someone's dashboard ( Tara Talks may even have them) of Smith's own voice, consistently relaying the same messages

BB is a real company
we are here for the long term
payments are in the process of going out ( bank statement analysis would confirm this was not true)
complex nonsense terminology without meaning or substance to keep the scam going from week to week
promises of newer improved systems to support BB business growth
consistent promise breaking on payment deadlines
discussions on compliance to affiliates when there was nothing compliant about BB
statements made regarding the collection of fees and charges
fraudulent car draw announcements, in fact fraudulent fee collecting / panel buying promises to for personal gain of BB top staff
world tour recruitment drives and associated bullshit

the list of lies are endless and plentiful based on the recordings of those webinars alone. So much so, given that we now know that the big players used their real names, that one has to wonder, how did they think they could get away with this? In the name of insanity, how much does one need to incriminate oneself, so blatantly, so regularly, so wonderfully in a world where the internet footprint is impossible to erase?

The evidence is right there, given to the investigators, by the criminals, on a plate!

[Mundorf]

Funny isn't it....as you wrote - on a plate.We have a say - 10 times spoken lie becomes "truth"...well..a sort of...just look how much energy BB leaders spent to convince audience that BB is company with real product and with big real partners.Just look what a construction (panels,traffic earning,blind network,stupid hits coming from other affiliates etc.) they built to convince people there is a work to be done to earn money.
They did this propaganda so good and so consistently that even they started to believe they are here for a long time doing a "clean" and "legal " work.They knew of course what a monster is hidden behind all the "happy" faces but I do believe even they believed that the system can be defended with its quasi legal face on the surface.Do we have a product?- yes we do (they said).Do we have to work? - Yes we do - they repeated it 100 times and believed they do a real business.
It's not unusual that criminals take ,or try the rubbish look like a real thing, legal form to push dirty staff but more it looks like real more they believe IT IS = it could work as real, and show themselves in publick with real names and photos

[NikSam]

..... So much so, given that we now know that the big players used their real names, that one has to wonder, how did they think they could get away with this? In the name of insanity...


They still have chance to run away to a place where Canada or UK cannot touch them, they not being charged , and not gonna be for some time.
At the end, the money they got is worth it, it is even worth doing few years in a canadian jail.

[Brenda]

They still have chance to run away to a place where Canada or UK cannot touch them, they not being charged , and not gonna be for some time.
At the end, the money they got is worth it, it is even worth doing few years in a canadian jail.

I am assuming that they can now only run with money squirreled away? Isn't it a case that the funds discussed in the legal documents are frozen by officials pending completion of the investigation? As I read it, even property that was allegedly up for sale has had a freeze order placed on it. As Canadian citizens, they are subjected to the visa systems/ restrictions of other countries. Those countries who are out of the visa system for non residents may not be the most desired locations to be ' on the run'.

[Beacon]

I am assuming that they can now only run with money squirreled away? Isn't it a case that the funds discussed in the legal documents are frozen by officials pending completion of the investigation? As I read it, even property that was allegedly up for sale has had a freeze order placed on it. As Canadian citizens, they are subjected to the visa systems/ restrictions of other countries. Those countries who are out of the visa system for non residents may not be the most desired locations to be ' on the run'.

This is true. Also suppose they do fee and abandon family and friends and do hove off some money. they would possibly live a "Ronnie Biggs" lifestyle. But they could not then re enter the same type of scam as both they would be easily identifiable and they would also be fugitives in UK Canada Ireland India etc, and any other jurisdiction from which they might be extradited. Probably better to cough up and do the time. Assuming they dont get 100 years or similar which they might get in the USA.

[NikSam]

I am assuming that they can now only run with money squirreled away? Isn't it a case that the funds discussed in the legal documents are frozen by officials pending completion of the investigation? As I read it, even property that was allegedly up for sale has had a freeze order placed on it. As Canadian citizens, they are subjected to the visa systems/ restrictions of other countries. Those countries who are out of the visa system for non residents may not be the most desired locations to be ' on the run'.

Of course they have way more offshore bank accounts nobody knows about. It would be naive to assume that they who dealt primary with shady money launderers (Vector,AP/Payza,STP,WeW), have multiple offshore corporations to have only one offshore bank account. Isle of Man bank account was a mistake, because a serious crook would not have a corporation and a bank in same jurisdiction. There are definitely accounts in Belize (they had to pay there alot including a senator, flashing a canadian or IoM bank there is dumb), who or on which corporation those accounts are might be never determined. And if I was a Chris I would definitely open an account in Trinidad and Tobago while I am physically there. How many rainy days do you think he was planning for ?

As on crossing borders, it never stopped P2P Nick Smirnov to leave Canada and disappear, or 115 canadians now wanted by interpol.

I interviewed some serial fraudsters, they hid the money and have no problem doing jail time for it, even in russian jail.
One of them said: "Most people are slaves of a job, for the entire life they will never earn what i did in couple years, i would gladly do 10 years and a thought of my financial cushion will warm me all this time"

[Beacon]

I interviewed some serial fraudsters, they hid the money and have no problem doing jail time for it, even in russian jail.
One of them said: "Most people are slaves of a job, for the entire life they will never earn what i did in couple years, i would gladly do 10 years and a thought of my financial cushion will warm me all this time"
Indeed. I am sure nazis would say they didnt have problems killing gypsies or Jews and taking their gold teeth houses or whatever else they had. Drug dealers and extortionists who ran criminal gangs may also have retired with large amounts of money. Bank robbers might never have been caught and got away with it also and dont regret killing the bank guard. Yes indeed some guilty people may get away with it. The overarching jurisprudence however is to make sure innocent people are not punished in order to make sure guilty people do not get away.
But think again about what you are stating which amounts to: Bad people sometimes get away with doing bad things. Even if that is true why should that make any difference to Realscam?
Surely the point her is to reduce the amount of bad things people get away with and possibly prevent the same people or new scammers from doing the same in future? RealScam and other like Taratalks, Finchsells, Patrick Pretty, Eagle Investments all have a valid role to play and are fulfilling it even if scams continue.
What RS and they do in itself is an achievement even if sometimes there are those that get away. And even if they do get away they don't live an entirely free existence. Look at Ronnie Biggs for example. Hardly an ideal life in Brazil?

[Beacon]

They still have chance to run away to a place where Canada or UK cannot touch them, they not being charged , and not gonna be for some time.

I think I have make the point but let me ask you would you rather nothing done about WWII nazis at all or that they be allowed go about their business after WWII or would you rather that they were on the run in most countries and some of them had to hide on South America or elsewhere with wealth they had "squirreled away"


At the end, the money they got is worth it, it is even worth doing few years in a canadian jail.

Well this is another issue about "punishment fitting the crime" . If they came out of jail and were put into jail on the basis that all their ill gotten gains had been given back it is true that they cant then be tried for the same crime again ( double jeopardy) . But if it later transpired they were hiding money away this as part of their original judgement could also be taken from them and they could be returned to prison.

[NikSam]

I think I have make the point but let me ask you would you rather nothing done about WWII nazis at all or that they be allowed go about their business after WWII or would you rather that they were on the run in most countries and some of them had to hide on South America or elsewhere with wealth they had "squirreled away"


Well this is another issue about "punishment fitting the crime" . If they came out of jail and were put into jail on the basis that all their ill gotten gains had been given back it is true that they cant then be tried for the same crime again ( double jeopardy) . But if it later transpired they were hiding money away this as part of their original judgement could also be taken from them and they could be returned to prison.

I was not implying if one outcome is better than the other, or which punishment should be served.
I was just expanding the concept on how criminals can do it in the open and what they expect / plan at the end,
in reference to Brenda's post: "... how did they think they could get away with this? ..."

[Beacon]

Of course they have way more offshore bank accounts nobody knows about.


This is called "argument from ignorance". We just dont know about other accounts. It may be they exist but the court will decide on FACTS and not on belief of there being other accounts.


It would be naive to assume that they who dealt primary with shady money launderers (Vector,AP/Payza,STP,WeW), have multiple offshore corporations to have only one offshore bank account. Isle of Man bank account was a mistake, because a serious crook would not have a corporation and a bank in same jurisdiction.

I begin to think Chris smith isn't a "serious crook". Maybe he is a non violent scammer who "got lucky" with this scam. He does not strike me as a particularly bright criminal. Indeed many legally wealthy people are not bright at all either most of them having inherited their wealth. The whole Isle of Man episode gives the impression that Smith hadn't a clue about business or finance and chanced his arm. sadly if he had learned a bit about either his "chancer" personality possibly could have afforded him some success in a proper business. Having said that though Raj chris and others seem to have other criminal elements of their personality in common. Narcissism, and sociopath tendencies. They seem to care little of the consequences of their actions so long as their ego image and enjoyment is being satisfied. They lack the ability to empathise with others. They are the centre of the world and if anything goes wrong they are the victim.


There are definitely accounts in Belize

Again we dont know.


(they had to' pay there alot including a senator,

again we don't know about shoman or the extent of her involvement.


flashing a canadian or IoM bank there is dumb), who or on which corporation those accounts are might be never determined.

Exactly! An if you cant determine it you cant say it is certain!


And if I was a Chris I would definitely open an account in Trinidad and Tobago while I am physically there. How many rainy days do you think he was planning for ?

If I was chris I might be too dumb or careless to think of consequences of the scheme collapsing. I might be to caught up in the moment and to busy enjoying the money I scammed from others.

[Beacon]

I was not implying if one outcome is better than the other, or which punishment should be served.
I was just expanding the concept on how criminals can do it in the open and what they expect / plan at the end,
in reference to Brenda's post: "... how did they think they could get away with this? ..."

Nor was I saying what outcome is better. But I do think for normal people it is better to be involved in exposing scams then not to be involved even if the scammers sometimes succeed. If we didnt think that way democracies would collapse. and I do agree in some modern societies people are saying being involved is futile. Also it points to the difference between the sociopathic narcissistic criminal psychology and the community respect and social values of most people.

[NikSam]

Nor was I saying what outcome is better. But I do think for normal people it is better to be involved in exposing scams then not to be involved even if the scammers sometimes succeed. If we didnt think that way democracies would collapse. and I do agree in some modern societies people are saying being involved is futile. Also it points to the difference between the sociopathic narcissistic criminal psychology and the community respect and social values of most people.

Neither i implied we should just stop doing what we do when scammers are getting away, with my experience most did get away, it just makes me fight them harder, but still keeping the law gloves on.

[Beacon]

DUTY TO PROVIDE ACCESS AND CO-OPERATION TO THE RECEIVER
http://www.spergel.ca/corporate/resources/banners/Order%20of%20Newbould%20J%20issued%20October%2015% 202014%20%28Further%20Supplemental%20Order%29.pdf
Orders under 4 (v) "Any other entity"



I also not in the suppliamentary order ( and this really snookers Facebook Linkedin etc.)


9.
THIS COURT ORDERS that if any Records are stored or otherwise contained on acomputer or other electronic system of information storage, whether by independent serviceprovider or otherwise, all Persons in possession or control of such Records shall forthwith giveunfettered access to the Receiver for the purpose of allowing the Receiver to recover and fullycopy all of the information contained therein whether by way of printing the information onto paperor making copies of computer disks or such other manner of retrieving and copying theinformation as the Receiver in its discretion deems expedient, and shall not alter, erase or destroyany Records without the prior written consent of the Receiver.

Also while not Ordering Isle of Man it does Request the order apply to the Isle of Man and be recognised by them. This would bring its application into the British courts. If so ther is a part of it about "non interference" which Gives Appelton ( the liquidator) a lot of powers but it also freezes out anyoing else for example Driscoll from tasking any case or resolving their own case while Appelton is doing their job.

[Ken Roklin]

Assuming they dont get 100 years or similar which they might get in the USA.

Chris isn't Madoff who received 150 years. The average jail time in the USA doesn't seem to be that high (100 years) for Ponzi operators in the USA, i.e.:

August 28, 2014
Disgraced Cincinnati money manager Glen Galemmo was sentenced Thursday to more than 15 years in prison for bilking tens of millions of dollars from more than 140 investors.

December 12, 2013
Federal authorities say a Northeast Ohio man wanted by the FBI in connection with a $65 million Ponzi scheme was arrested in Peru Wednesday morning after more than a decade on the run. Bartoli could face more than 10 years in jail and hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines if he's tried and convicted in the 2003 indictment.

April 16, 2012
United States Attorney Laura E. Duffy announced that today United States District Court Judge Michael M. Anello sentenced Steven Bartko to serve 24 months in custody for his role in a Ponzi scheme that defrauded investors of over $5 million.

Dec 13, 2012
A hotel operator who prosecutors said defrauded more than 7,000 investors in a $500 million Ponzi scheme was sentenced in Chicago to five years in prison after pleading guilty to securities fraud. Prosecutors said Kelly operated his schemes between 1998 and 2004.

[Beacon]

Chris isn't Madoff who received 150 years. The average jail time in the USA doesn't seem to be that high (100 years) for Ponzi operators in the USA, i.e.:

August 28, 2014
Disgraced Cincinnati money manager Glen Galemmo- 15 years in

December 12, 2013
Federal authorities say a Northeast Ohio - Bartoli could face more than 10 years in jail and hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines

Steven Bartko to serve 24 months in custody for his role in a Ponzi scheme that defrauded investors of over $5 million.

Dec 13, 2012
A hotel operator who - 7,000 investors in a $500 million Ponzi scheme was sentenced in Chicago to five years in prison

Yes but where I come from people get six years for manslaughter and may get out in three.

On the other issues of "why should we bother" and "is it all worth it"
https://www.idology.com/idologylaunches2014fraudreport
highlights from IDology’s 2014 Fraud Report: Confidence in preventing certain types of fraud declines; Customer awareness of fraud increases while fraudsters continue to shift tactics;

[ribshaw]

I have a laundry list of criminals I would like to see serving longer sentences and/or doing hard labor to reimburse their victims. Sadly the justice system does not always give us what we want. Warning potential victims away be it from a rag tag group of bloggers, or a concerted effort from the authorities is the biggest bang for the buck in slowing fraud. Who can say how big any of these programs would get if people were not steered from "too good to be true"?

Once money games implode in most cases all the money is gone, a legal judgement and life sentence won't change that. Even if Chris and Raj get buried under the prison the lure of easy money both for the scammer and scamee insures the next big con is right around the corner.

[Arthur Foxache]

Dec 13, 2012
A hotel operator who - 7,000 investors in a $500 million Ponzi scheme was sentenced in Chicago to five years in prison... well that's $70,000 per "investor" that's a lotta seed monies..

[Beacon]

...

BB is a real company
we are here for the long term
payments are in the process of going out ( bank statement analysis would confirm this was not true)
complex nonsense terminology without meaning or substance to keep the scam going from week to week
promises of newer improved systems to support BB business growth
consistent promise breaking on payment deadlines
discussions on compliance to affiliates when there was nothing compliant about BB
statements made regarding the collection of fees and charges
fraudulent car draw announcements, in fact fraudulent fee collecting / panel buying promises to for personal gain of BB top staff
world tour recruitment drives and associated bullshit

the list of lies are endless and plentiful based on the recordings of those webinars alone. ...

The evidence is right there, given to the investigators, by the criminals, on a plate!

TYhe thing is this above evidence is also there for the non "big players" mentioned in the court doccuments. the Jamies the Strpsyses the Soozi sconzes The Balantynes of this world all have questions to answer and have left a record on facebook linkedin etc. and the liquidator could be asking them for the relevant data. There must be at least around a hundred of the mid range players listed in this discussion thread alone. Maybe the likes of Scones does not have to pay money back but the gains people like that made from BB ( or whether they made them) needs to be verified and even if they made nothing it could be quantified how much they encouraged others to join.

[Beacon]

I have a laundry list of criminals I would like to see serving longer sentences and/or doing hard labor to reimburse their victims. Sadly the justice system does not always give us what we want.

I agree which is why I call it the court system. Expect the law to be employed usually in a level handed manner if both sides have equal ability in their representation. Dont expect justice in a court of law.


Warning potential victims away be it from a rag tag group of bloggers, or a concerted effort from the authorities is the biggest bang for the buck in slowing fraud. Who can say how big any of these programs would get if people were not steered from "too good to be true"?

Well you ask a question about psychology oif victims here as opposed to psychology of criminals. there is no law against stupidity but it is difficult to say when someone trusting someone else becomes stupid. But to be fair you ( in reference to "to good to be true") are referring to clear black and white and not the grey middle area to which I refer.


Once money games implode in most cases all the money is gone, a legal judgement and life sentence won't change that. Even if Chris and Raj get buried under the prison the lure of easy money both for the scammer and scamee insures the next big con is right around the corner.
Luckily there is at least ten to twenty million in visible assets in BB.
But now you switch from victims to criminals' psychology. Yes ther will be more loosing for victims but as I stated they could make more in a legit business. You know you remind me of games like Runescape and World of Warcraft. There are those who focus on killing other p;layers so they can steal their wealth rather than build up anything. the only "friends" they have are thise who facilitate them operating in such a manner. and they can turn on them just as easily. Go figure.

[Beacon]

Okay guys who posting from Zen Internet changed Lisa Shomans Wikipedia entry? because the only evidence they offered supporting her being hired by BB is a link to the spergels motion to the canadian court. But that motion says nothing about Shoman being retained by BB as far as I know.

[Whip]

Maybe the likes of Scones

I stopped eating scones after they were mentioned in this thread.

[Whip]

Okay guys who posting from Zen Internet changed Lisa Shomans Wikipedia entry? because the only evidence they offered supporting her being hired by BB is a link to the spergels motion to the canadian court. But that motion says nothing about Shoman being retained by BB as far as I know.

Is there a wacky joke picture of Tom Cruise from jerry mcguire yelling "SHOMAN THE MONEY!!!!!!!"? If not, then it wasn't me.

[Mr. Anderson]

So much so, given that we now know that the big players used their real names, that one has to wonder, how did they think they could get away with this? In the name of insanity, how much does one need to incriminate oneself, so blatantly, so regularly, so wonderfully in a world where the internet footprint is impossible to erase? The evidence is right there, given to the investigators, by the criminals, on a plate!

It's a calculated risk. A few ringleaders make millions, stash the money, hide it with fake expenses, and pick it up after laying low. Max jail time for ponzi schemes in Canada is 2 years. Worst case scenario: go to jail for 2 years and pick up a fortune that most honest hardworking people will never earn.

[littleroundman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eTYeebdNZi0

Banners Broker Creditor Information


https://yt3.ggpht.com/-UXZ0_-n9_Vk/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAAAA/tM8_sAGF0qw/s88-c-k-no/photo.jpg (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3JMRqjn4pY4EE0e-o1368Q)Tara Glassia (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3JMRqjn4pY4EE0e-o1368Q)

TARA TALKS (http://taratalkstoday.blogspot.co.uk/)

[Ken Roklin]

It's a calculated risk. A few ringleaders make millions, stash the money, hide it with fake expenses, and pick it up after laying low. Max jail time for ponzi schemes in Canada is 2 years. Worst case scenario: go to jail for 2 years and pick up a fortune that most honest hardworking people will never earn.

I don't know where you got your information from but here is what the criminal code says:

"New section 380(1.1) of the Code will impose a minimum mandatory sentence of two years' imprisonment if the total value of the subject matter of the offence (or offences) exceeds C$1-million.

The passage of Bill C-21 represents yet another step in a now obvious trend by the Canadian government to treat white collar crime more seriously. Subject to sentencing guidelines, trial judges continue to have significant discretion in deciding the appropriate punishment in each case. However, the message that the government is clearly sending to trial judges is that in exercising this discretion, more significant consequences ought to be imposed on those who commit fraud."

A couple of cases:
Mar 20, 2014.
Earl Jones, a Quebec Ponzi-scheme fraudster who bilked $51.3 million from clients between 1982 and 1999, was released from prison today after serving four years of his 11-year sentence.

Mar. 20th, 2014
Ontario’s Pigeon King has been sentenced to seven years in prison for defrauding farmers in a Ponzi scheme running across Canada and the U.S., according to regional media.

[Della Cate]

Over on the Bb Fb page, we have this......rather incredible exchange........
8587

[HARRISON]

The final thread from the TalkingBB Forum has now finally been uploaded. It makes very interesting reading. Look out for the post where Iain claims we have said that he is Chris and/or Ian Driscoll in disguise. Hilarious:loser:

TARA TALKS: The TalkingBB Forum (http://taratalkstoday.blogspot.co.uk/p/the-talkingbb-forum.html)

[NikSam]

Heh, really out of money ? :)

8588

[Dreamstealer]

The final thread from the TalkingBB Forum has now finally been uploaded. It makes very interesting reading. Look out for the post where Iain claims we have said that he is Chris and/or Ian Driscoll in disguise. Hilarious:loser:

TARA TALKS: The TalkingBB Forum (http://taratalkstoday.blogspot.co.uk/p/the-talkingbb-forum.html)

Sweet memories. Particularly loved little Jamie's charming tax comments. As a Chartered Accountant it always makes me smile to hear someone so naïve about business and tax giving their "expert" opinion. Clearly his business is too small to use a proper accountant. Shame all of his advice is rubbish.

[hendyphilhendy]

Sweet memories. Particularly loved little Jamie's charming tax comments. As a Chartered Accountant it always makes me smile to hear someone so naïve about business and tax giving their "expert" opinion. Clearly his business is too small to use a proper accountant. Shame all of his advice is rubbish.

Yes my accountancy qualifications were often ignored or quaffed when I tried to explain how it should work for a 'proper business'.

[Dreamstealer]

Yes my accountancy qualifications were often ignored or quaffed when I tried to explain how it should work for a 'proper business'.

The Talking BS forum had several people who had been advised by their accountants of the true tax rules. And I think you posted the correct rules there as well. However I think the general consensus that the real experts in tax, like little Jamie should be believed, rather than people who had done tax exams, worked in tax for years and had to do regular tax update courses. I mean who would you rather have had physics lessons off of? Einstein or Dean Martin? The BB Believers would choose Dean every day. "So class- the moon's in the sky, like a big pizza pie"

[AshKen1]

Does anyone have any more information about that action against our septic friend?

[littleroundman]

Does anyone have any more information about that action against our septic friend?


TODAYS COURT CASE UPDATE AGAINST SIMON STEPSYS:

We have copied a post made by Demian for your information:

Hey everyone, the claim has been prolonged. No judgement has been made due to various reasons which would be too long to explain. We have to send in more detailed particulars of claim by 14 days from now. Then they can send in amended defence statements again if they want (for another 14 days) and from there we'll have another directions hearing as some of the points on the court order were not fulfilled by both my side and Simon's side.

After that, there will be a final hearing which should be around November.

Seems like this case might escalate to the multi track (it's on the small claims track as of now) due to the complex and possible fraud nature of it. It might also become a class action, so...

We are still going, now harder than ever. But again, it would be great if more payers come out of the woods...We are sure hundreds of people might have sent money directly to Simon among which dozens will have sent more than 4 figures or even 5 figures.

Banners Broker Ponzi Scam please post again, we need every single person that sent money per bank transfer directly to Simon to contact me at demiancaceres07@gmail.com

Same if they sent to Mark Ghobril or Keith Lambert. They are acting as witnesses (the judge knows these statements are biased but well...seems like they want to have attention raised against them too).

The judge sees the potential civil fraud, now it's time to without a doubt prove it with tons of identical cases. They shouldn't get away with what they did either.

There is far to much proof that BB is a scam and by taking money in directly making false promises and guarantees of earnings, they are directly liable (not BB) for fraud and misrepresentation, while selling a product that doesn't work as falsely advertised.

Hope to get a lot of contacts...it's time to come out and stop hiding. It's not about the money anymore...it's about principles (which these guys clearly don't have as we all know).

Looking forward to your emails folks,
Demian

Please contact Demian directly if you'd like to help him.

BBPS Admin.

My Advertising Pays Scam (https://www.facebook.com/pages/My-Advertising-Pays-Scam/788704724492200) page on Facebook

[NikSam]

My Advertising Pays Scam (https://www.facebook.com/pages/My-Advertising-Pays-Scam/788704724492200) page on Facebook

Which brings an interesting question.
Is everyone except Demian satisfied with their "panels" which they bought from Stepsys ? Really ?

[Whip]

Which brings an interesting question.
Is everyone except Demian satisfied with their "panels" which they bought from Stepsys ? Really ?

I'm sure they were of the highest quality..















Damn did i just make myself laugh.

[Poyol]

Okay guys who posting from Zen Internet changed Lisa Shomans Wikipedia entry? because the only evidence they offered supporting her being hired by BB is a link to the spergels motion to the canadian court. But that motion says nothing about Shoman being retained by BB as far as I know.

I believe the citation linked to the Banners Broker being a Ponzi scheme. Well, it does as I'm the one who posted it.
Feel free to edit the Wikipedia article with OFFICIAL citation to Lisa Shoman being connected but all I could find was an email screenshot (which means nothing).

[NikSam]

I believe the citation linked to the Banners Broker being a Ponzi scheme. Well, it does as I'm the one who posted it.
Feel free to edit the Wikipedia article with OFFICIAL citation to Lisa Shoman being connected but all I could find was an email screenshot (which means nothing).

She was involved, no question about it, she might not understood what she was dealing with. When she did realize she went quiet,
stopped replying emails and all posts with questions on her FB were quietly deleted.

Just a standard Belize behavior, when they get caught – they knew nothing and will not talk about it.
Offshore criminal enterprises are the biggest share of the country income.

[waverider]

Haven't been in here for ages, hope you're all well !

LOL, that photo.... hahaha that's actually my housemate Adam 'smokin it up' ....

[waverider]

Just a thought, shouldn't the BannersBroker thread be moved into a closed/inactive category ?

This thing is well beyond dead, done and dusted....

[littleroundman]

Just a thought, shouldn't the BannersBroker thread be moved into a closed/inactive category ?

This thing is well beyond dead, done and dusted....

Unlike the usual suspect HYIP ponzi forums, we don't have a closed or inactive sub forum.

We find it is helpful for potential victims of these things to be able to watch as the prosecution evolves, particularly from the perspective of having the inner workings exposed so they can see how these things really work

You know: the old, "once bitten, twice shy" thing

[littleroundman]

Banners Broker members should be aware they are being targeted by scammers.

If you or one of your group or friends receive one of these notices DO NOT REPLY

They are fake and you will not receive a refund.

Instead your name, email address and account numbers will be stolen

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/1676/N5NM4g.jpg

[Beacon]

I believe the citation linked to the Banners Broker being a Ponzi scheme. Well, it does as I'm the one who posted it.
Feel free to edit the Wikipedia article with OFFICIAL citation to Lisa Shoman being connected but all I could find was an email screenshot (which means nothing).

Im not changing anything. She can do that herself. I just as yet havent seen anything from her confirming or denying her link with BB. I would like if the liquidators wrote to her and asked her whether she is connected to them or not.

[Beacon]

She was involved, no question about it, she might not understood what she was dealing with. When she did realize she went quiet,
stopped replying emails and all posts with questions on her FB were quietly deleted.

Just a standard Belize behavior, when they get caught – they knew nothing and will not talk about it.
Offshore criminal enterprises are the biggest share of the country income.
If she was involved then as a cabinet level front bench politician Senate Leader of the opposition and Ambassador it would look very very bad politically.
People's United Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_United_Party#The_PUP_today)


People’s United Party The PUP led Belize to eight consecutive years of growth, despite serious external and internal shocks to the traditional and non-traditional bases of the economy.

In 2004 several ministers resigned from Cabinet citing inability to work within the current system. The party wooed them back almost immediately, but aftershocks from this incident continue to affect the party.

Belizeans today are more skeptical of the party than ever before due to constant accusations of corruption which it says are falsified. The 2005 protests in Belize highlighted some of these claims.

[Beacon]

Just a thought, shouldn't the BannersBroker thread be moved into a closed/inactive category ?

This thing is well beyond dead, done and dusted....

No it isnt! If you loook at the liquidators timeline you will see they arent half way through their investigation. Then there may be criminal proceedings. And we still dont know about Belize, India and what is happening with Stepsys. then there is a huge number of pimps to deal with when the liquidators report comes in.

[Beacon]

I might add on the India situation the police are understaffed
Understaffed police stations get 17 more PSIs, 30 transferred - GOACOM - GOA - INDIA - INFORMATION AND SERVICES IN GOA. Goa News, Goa Konkani News, Goa Sunaparant News, Goan Konakani News, Goa Video News, Goa Yellow Pages (http://www.goacom.com/goa-news-highlights/11358-understaffed-police-stations-get-17-more-psis-30-transferred)
http://www.goapolice.gov.in/officer-tel-nos.pdf
You might note the PI for CID Panaji attended the Bento case. Ther are two PSI for CID listed in their phone book. One of them Vishwanath Tilve dropped dead - apparently from overwork !
Target Goa : GOA CRIME - what's trending - overworked cop drops dead (http://www.targetgoa.com/goabuzzdet.php?bzid=5976&&id=3)

[Brenda]

Just a thought, shouldn't the BannersBroker thread be moved into a closed/inactive category ?

This thing is well beyond dead, done and dusted....

Waverider, your comment clearly demonstrates the thinking of a ponzi pimp. Nothing to see here! It's only dead in terms of the end of Smith Dixit and the big pimps looting money from affiliates. For anyone with any sympathy for those scammed, it's very much alive and justice in the process of being served.

Those who mistakenly believed in BB and all that they were told may never see a penny back but certainly deserve to know that others will be protected from falling for the same.

Due diligence is our friend, while continuing to cover the unfolding of events with the ongoing court cases, this thread needs to remain open. You may have washed your hands of BB, even moved onto the next big thing, who knows, but if just a handful of hopefuls decide, based on what they read here, and the lengths ponzi scheme masters will go to, then we've done our job, a job well done!

[Brenda]

I hope the Canadian prosecutors have access to all those weekly webinars!

Each one, in conjunction with the bank account evidence surely shows motive, fraud and deception?

[Beacon]

Just a thought, shouldn't the BannersBroker thread be moved into a closed/inactive category ?

This thing is well beyond dead, done and dusted....

It seems you are being critical of Banners Broker. I think the day may have come that you referred to here:
http://www.realscam.com/f8/banners-broker-hyip-ponzi-scam-897/index130.html#post38075

[EagleOne]

So, waverider. I look forward to your complying with your post when you said, and I quote:

"If and when the day comes where I can justify saying something about Banners Broker which is critical of the company, or certain aspects of it, then it will be backed up with my full name and address. I do not, however feel any need to go to such measures to justify myself, or my choice of company with whom I've decided to part with some of my hard earned money with.

Whip, I don't need to ask for my money back, I'm about $30 short of re-couping my original input ("investment") from back in August. So if BB collapses over this xmas/new year, I'm down to the tune of a cheap bottle of scotch. No big deal, a bigger shame though, even more so if the naysayers are right and the whole thing was a scam through-and-through (unlikely but nevertheless a possibility I (suppose)"

You are going to fulfill your promise, right?

[Fat City, LA]

"So if BB collapses over this xmas/new year, I'm down to the tune of a cheap bottle of scotch. No big deal, a bigger shame though, even more so if the naysayers are right and the whole thing was a scam through-and-through (unlikely but nevertheless a possibility I (suppose)"

I can never get around that what bothers these imbeciles is that we were right on here. NOT that it was a sucker play ponzi from day one.
I just dont get it.

[Della Cate]

"So if BB collapses over this xmas/new year, I'm down to the tune of a cheap bottle of scotch. No big deal, a bigger shame though, even more so if the naysayers are right and the whole thing was a scam through-and-through (unlikely but nevertheless a possibility I (suppose)"

I can never get around that what bothers these imbeciles is that we were right on here. NOT that it was a sucker play ponzi from day one.
I just dont get it.

I agree with you. What I also still cannot get my head around is that some people must have gone into it knowing it was dodgy right from the start - but they still did it. And those who stayed in hoping for a payout even if it came at the expense of others....I mean, how could they do that?

I saw another scheme advertised on the web yesterday (don't ask me what it was, I cannot remember) which blatantly urged people to "get in early" for the maximum return. Yeah, right - so that you can profit from the suckers joining after you I suppose!

[littleroundman]

even if it came at the expense of others....I mean, how could they do that?

Stick around and you'll discover that is the very last thing on the mind of HYIP ponzi players.

You need look no further than Septic Simon Stepsys and his merry band of fraudsters to know empathy is not a desirable attribute in HYIP ponzi players and get-rich-quickers

Which, by the way, in 2014, is not confined to HYIP ponzi players. It's more of a reflection of society in general.

To them, the elderly, naive and trusting make BETTER victims, to be sought out and targeted.

[Ken Roklin]

I agree with you. What I also still cannot get my head around is that some people must have gone into it knowing it was dodgy right from the start - but they still did it. And those who stayed in hoping for a payout even if it came at the expense of others....I mean, how could they do that?

I saw another scheme advertised on the web yesterday (don't ask me what it was, I cannot remember) which blatantly urged people to "get in early" for the maximum return. Yeah, right - so that you can profit from the suckers joining after you I suppose!

There are tons of HYIP's/Hybrids (www.moneymakersgroup.com) that all say "get in early". new ones starting up almost daily. A lot of people play these "games" (knowing they are all scams) and get in early as they know the life of these schemes is very short and if they pay at all it is early in the game. Most of them pay early in the game and the players post their "earnings" in order to promote the plan.

[Dreamstealer]

I agree with you. What I also still cannot get my head around is that some people must have gone into it knowing it was dodgy right from the start - but they still did it. And those who stayed in hoping for a payout even if it came at the expense of others....I mean, how could they do that?

I saw another scheme advertised on the web yesterday (don't ask me what it was, I cannot remember) which blatantly urged people to "get in early" for the maximum return. Yeah, right - so that you can profit from the suckers joining after you I suppose!

Yes it's hard to credit. A lot of scum posted here in the early days claiming it is a "money game". sorry, can't see its a "game" for the people who didn't know the "rules".

[littleroundman]

sorry, can't see its a "game" for the people who didn't know the "rules".

HYIP ponzi fraudsters and their apologists have the perfect answer for that.

It's the victims' fault if they didn't bother to find out "the rules" before they began playing the game and doubly their fault if they "invested more than thy could afford to lose"

[Della Cate]

Yes, LRM, you are right. I remember dear David Hooker starting to backpedal and tell people that they should not "invest" more than they could afford to lose. He, or one of the crew, also started going on about "not putting all your eggs in one basket" and that they should have "multiple streams of income". Mind you, as I recall it, this was only said AFTER the good ship Banners Broker showed signs that it was taking on water and in danger of sinking.

Just like MAPs really. At present, over on the Simon Stepsys's MAPS Facebook group, people are being told to focus on MAPs, to put their money into that, to buy more of their "credit packs"; in fact to aim to have 1200 of the credit packs. But I wonder how long it will be before people are being told that they should not rely too much on one thing, that they should diversify, etc etc etc.

Just like Banners Broker! Depressing how the same thing keeps popping up over and over again. Like Groundhog Day for scammers.

[Mr. Anderson]

WARNING: Seems that the people behind BB started skimming participants' bank accounts:

From https://www.facebook.com/pages/Banners-Broker-Ponzi-Scam/398614356881465, from John Scott:

"A word of warning. Please pass on. Banners Broker created a business called Create My Suite. This was signed up to through the Banners Broker Website.Today they took £1.88 from my bank account and looking back looks like they have been doing the same for months. I have notified Spergel in Ontario of this and my bank has put a block on this company taking any more money. Everyone that was in BB needs to check their bank accounts to see if BB under the guise of Craete My Suite are still taking money and get the transactions stopped. at 450,000 members that is still in excess of £500,000 stirling they are potentially raking in from small transactions that will likely get missed when people check their statements."

[Della Cate]

This is an interesting site - from Australia.

Pyramid schemes (http://www.scamwatch.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/694266)

This comment from the site is especially interesting to me: In Australia, it is against the law not only to promote a pyramid scheme, but even to participate in one. Is that true? Doesn't that have serious implications for any Australian citizens who involved themselves in BB (and other similar endeavours)?

[littleroundman]

This is an interesting site - from Australia.

Pyramid schemes (http://www.scamwatch.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/694266)

This comment from the site is especially interesting to me: In Australia, it is against the law not only to promote a pyramid scheme, but even to participate in one. Is that true? Doesn't that have serious implications for any Australian citizens who involved themselves in BB (and other similar endeavours)?

It is very true, Della.

In fact, if you read through this thread from the cash gifting subforum here on REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com) you'll soon realize the same pyramid scheme participation and promotion laws apply in virtually every state in the USA: Cash gifting and the Law in the USA, State by State (http://www.realscam.com/f42/cash-gifting-law-u-s-state-state-2052/)

[Beacon]

It is very true, Della.

In fact, if you read through this thread from the cash gifting subforum here on REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com) you'll soon realize the same pyramid scheme participation and promotion laws apply in virtually every state in the USA: Cash gifting and the Law in the USA, State by State (http://www.realscam.com/f42/cash-gifting-law-u-s-state-state-2052/)

In Europe countries/States can make their own laws. But they also have signed several EU treaties which allow for the EU Commission, Council and Parliament a role in what is called "secondary" legislation. They cover a broad swathe of legislation e.g. Environment, Transport, Agriculture and fisheries, Labour laws. Some laws are not binding e.g. The UK did not sign the Social chapter of The Masstricht Treaty
Treaty Tightrope: The Social Chapter: what it is and why Conservatives hate it - UK Politics - UK - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/treaty-tightrope-the-social-chapter-what-it-is-and-why-conservatives-hate-it-1486124.html)
which meant they did not have to bring in a minimum wage, or join the Euro but they did subscribe to the other parts of this Treaty.
The EU Unfair Commercial Practices Directive (Directive 2005/28/EC of 11 May 2005) (pdf) deals with unfair business-to-consumer commercial practices, (it does not apply to dealings between businesses). The Consumer Protection Act 2007 provides for its implementation in Ireland.
Laws made in the EU are issued in EU "Directives" and in this case the Directive is
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2005:149:0022:0039:EN:PDF
States have I think (under the Lisbon Treaty) six weeks to reject or ammend them
If you look at annex I on page 15 you will see


14. Establishing, operating or promoting a pyramid promotional scheme wh
ere a consumer gives consideration for the
opportunity to receive compensation that is derived primarily from the in
troduction of other consumers into the
scheme rather than from the sale or consumption of products.
This was implemented in Ireland through The Consumer Protection Act 2007. This is not to say Ireland did not already have Pyramid Selling Legislation.The Pyramid Selling Act 1980 was repealed by the Consumer Protection Act 2007 and replaced by new provisions in it.
Consumer Protection Act 2007 (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/act/pub/0019/index.html)
Part 4 deals with pyramid selling

2 a) the opportunity to receive compensation need not be limited to the person’s introduction of other persons into the scheme but may include their introduction by other persons;
66 (2)


(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), a “scheme promoter” means a person who establishes, operates or promotes a pyramid promotional scheme or who induces or attempts to induce others to participate in such a scheme, and includes any person acting on a scheme promoter’s behalf.

Consumer Protection Act 2007, Section 64 (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/act/pub/0019/sec0064.html#part4)

I would argue one would have to actively and or knowingly promote the scheme. One could argue that people who toolk part did not believe it was a scam but the people who turned up for the World Tour in Dublin were certainly promoting Banners Broker. They were also warned before and after this event that it was a scam and they continued to promote it. The due dilligence ( Section 78) was theirs to do. In addition many of the participants were serial scammers and continue to operate other scams.

There is a statute of limitations Consumer Protection Act 2007, Section 76 (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/act/pub/0019/sec0076.html#part5-chap4)

charges will have to be brought within two years.

the max penalty is
79 (6) A person guilty of an offence under section 65 (2) is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €150,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.
this is fairly serious because in Ireland you can get six years or less for manslaughter.

the short answer is

Depends on country but in most places you can be charged for participating. If you were an unknowing victim and didn't promote the scheme then you would most probably not be found guilty. in fact I would reckon police would not bother pressing charges in such cases.

[Beacon]

It is very true, Della.

In fact, if you read through this thread from the cash gifting subforum here on REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com) you'll soon realize the same pyramid scheme participation and promotion laws apply in virtually every state in the USA: Cash gifting and the Law in the USA, State by State (http://www.realscam.com/f42/cash-gifting-law-u-s-state-state-2052/)

In Europe countries/States can make their own laws. But they also have signed several EU treaties which allow for the EU Commission, Council and Parliament a role in what is called "secondary" legislation. They cover a broad swathe of legislation e.g. Environment, Transport, Agriculture and fisheries, Labour laws. Some laws are not binding e.g. The UK did not sign the Social chapter of The Masstricht Treaty
Treaty Tightrope: The Social Chapter: what it is and why Conservatives hate it - UK Politics - UK - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/treaty-tightrope-the-social-chapter-what-it-is-and-why-conservatives-hate-it-1486124.html)
which meant they did not have to bring in a minimum wage, or join the Euro but they did subscribe to the other parts of this Treaty.
The EU Unfair Commercial Practices Directive (Directive 2005/28/EC of 11 May 2005) (pdf) deals with unfair business-to-consumer commercial practices, (it does not apply to dealings between businesses). The Consumer Protection Act 2007 provides for its implementation in Ireland.
Laws made in the EU are issued in EU "Directives" and in this case the Directive is
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2005:149:0022:0039:EN:PDF
States have I think (under the Lisbon Treaty) six weeks to reject or ammend them
If you look at annex I on page 15 you will see


14. Establishing, operating or promoting a pyramid promotional scheme wh
ere a consumer gives consideration for the
opportunity to receive compensation that is derived primarily from the in
troduction of other consumers into the
scheme rather than from the sale or consumption of products.
This was implemented in Ireland through The Consumer Protection Act 2007. This is not to say Ireland did not already have Pyramid Selling Legislation.The Pyramid Selling Act 1980 was repealed by the Consumer Protection Act 2007 and replaced by new provisions in it.
Consumer Protection Act 2007 (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/act/pub/0019/index.html)
Part 4 deals with pyramid selling

2 a) the opportunity to receive compensation need not be limited to the person’s introduction of other persons into the scheme but may include their introduction by other persons;
66 (2)


(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), a “scheme promoter” means a person who establishes, operates or promotes a pyramid promotional scheme or who induces or attempts to induce others to participate in such a scheme, and includes any person acting on a scheme promoter’s behalf.

Consumer Protection Act 2007, Section 64 (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/act/pub/0019/sec0064.html#part4)

I would argue one would have to actively and or knowingly promote the scheme. One could argue that people who toolk part did not believe it was a scam but the people who turned up for the World Tour in Dublin were certainly promoting Banners Broker. They were also warned before and after this event that it was a scam and they continued to promote it. The due dilligence ( Section 78) was theirs to do. In addition many of the participants were serial scammers and continue to operate other scams.

There is a statute of limitations Consumer Protection Act 2007, Section 76 (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2007/en/act/pub/0019/sec0076.html#part5-chap4)

charges will have to be brought within two years.

the max penalty is
79 (6) A person guilty of an offence under section 65 (2) is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €150,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or both.
this is fairly serious because in Ireland you can get six years or less for manslaughter.

the short answer is

Depends on country but in most places you can be charged for participating. If you were an unknowing victim and didn't promote the scheme then you would most probably not be found guilty. in fact I would reckon police would not bother pressing charges in such cases.

[littleroundman]

Looks like Mark Ghobril is working on another way to extract money from Banners Broker members.

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/4146/Fs3nd5.jpg

TIP: keep a tight grip on your wallet and hide your childrens' piggy banks before you have anything to do with Mark Ghobril

[EthanVanderbuilt]

It just amazes me that Banners Broker is still active. Here is a big hint. If a company is offering a business opportunity and they are based in Belize, it is a scam.

[NikSam]

It just amazes me that Banners Broker is still active. Here is a big hint. If a company is offering a business opportunity and they are based in Belize, it is a scam.

It is so not active. its been dead on payments for more than a year, and now is dead–dead as liquidators hit Canada.

Even holy and blessed do not believe it will resurrect any more.

[Fat City, LA]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=749556305120600&id=398614356881465

Much in this post from BB Scam FB Page.

[NikSam]

Yep, everyone is patiently waiting on toronto police and court. Even Mark Ghobril (i do not believe that he was just a brainwashed, he is a Pimp who did not care while $ were poring in)

[EthanVanderbuilt]

I am very glad to hear that.

It is so not active. its been dead on payments for more than a year, and now is dead–dead as liquidators hit Canada.

Even holy and blessed do not believe it will resurrect any more.

[littleroundman]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=749556305120600&id=398614356881465 (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=749556305120600&id=398614356881465)

Much in this post from BB Scam FB Page.

http://imageshack.com/a/img537/4770/Z5BI35.jpg

It's always fun watching ponzi pimps trying to outdo each other with "I didn't know anything, I'm an innocent victim too" posts after the collapse of a HYIP ponzi fraud.

Like any of them is ever going to come out and tell the truth" "Of course I knew, but you'll never prove it"

[Mundorf]

That's interesting - "...only Chris,Ray and Kul knew exactly what was really going on "...of course,NOBODY was able to find out what was really going on.It was such a secret - impossible for anyone even to suspect .Ghobril was not an exception ,after all,why should he - there was no place on the net where he was able to read opposite and even if he would,why not believe persons like Chris or Ray...when money was there for Ghobril to be picked up in large quantities .

[Della Cate]

Does anyone remember BB being discussed by the Irish Taxi Drivers Forum? There was someone there who was passionately committed to BB. Now, an Irish Taxi driver has popped up in MAPS (on the Stepsys FB Group). I wonder if this is the same person?

8647

[Beacon]

Does anyone remember BB being discussed by the Irish Taxi Drivers Forum? There was someone there who was passionately committed to BB. Now, an Irish Taxi driver has popped up in MAPS (on the Stepsys FB Group). I wonder if this is the same person?

8647

The name was A. Crank and I believe that is his real name. I note the taxi thread has woken from Zombie status. Must post it.

[Beacon]

The name was A. Crank and I believe that is his real name. I note the taxi thread has woken from Zombie status. Must post it.
the above FB poster is a different taxi driver. I hope someone gets to him before he gets fried by MAPS.

[Joe_Shmoe]

Looks like our old pal Mark Ghobril is taking charge of the Banners Broker refunds.

I really cannot think of anybody more trustworthy can you? :RpS_lol:

8653

[Fat City, LA]

1st:who in their right mind would give Ghobril their banking info. He has been caught in lie after lie and IMO is one of the biggest scumbags out there.

2nd:could he cross the line over into outright fraud w/this banking info? His house is in foreclosure...is he that desperate?


Looks like our old pal Mark Ghobril is taking charge of the Banners Broker refunds.

I really cannot think of anybody more trustworthy can you? :RpS_lol:

8653

[HARRISON]

Does anyone remember BB being discussed by the Irish Taxi Drivers Forum? There was someone there who was passionately committed to BB. Now, an Irish Taxi driver has popped up in MAPS (on the Stepsys FB Group). I wonder if this is the same person?

8647

Oh yes, good old Arthur! I loved that guy, had some great spats with him. Real name Andrew??? Was photographed at the BB event in Dublin on a promo vid. Funny how he is saying the same thing about MAPS as BB....may pop on over there and say 'hi' !

[littleroundman]

Looks like our old pal Mark Ghobril is taking charge of the Banners Broker refunds.

No, he's trying to make people THINK he's in a position to help them get refunds

It happens after the collapse of every "next-big-thing" HYIP ponzi fraud

Someone like Ghobril comes out from under his / her rock and offers to help victims get all or part of their money back, (for a small fee, of course)

Surprisingly enough, there's usually a couple of hundred people who will fall for it.

[Whip]

1st:who in their right mind would give Ghobril their banking info.

no one would. But I'm sure they don't find giving him their baking information any threat at all.

[Whip]

Oh yes, good old Arthur! I loved that guy, had some great spats with him. Real name Andrew??? Was photographed at the BB event in Dublin on a promo vid. Funny how he is saying the same thing about MAPS as BB....may pop on over there and say 'hi' !

Just throw that pic up there and ask 'just like this time?'

[littleroundman]

But I'm sure they don't find giving him their baking information any threat at all.

Don't be so sure.

Ghobril is a criminal serial HYIP ponzi pimp and promoter.

He'll definitely use peoples' banking information to steal from them and then he'd find a way to rip off their baking supplies or steal their recipes and claim them as his own.

[Gregg]

No, he's trying to make people THINK he's in a position to help them get refunds

It happens after the collapse of every "next-big-thing" HYIP ponzi fraud

Someone like Ghobril comes out from under his / her rock and offers to help victims get all or part of their money back, (for a small fee, of course)

Surprisingly enough, there's usually a couple of hundred people who will fall for it.

Now known as "pulling a Cradduck"

[littleroundman]

Or "doing a Guenther" on them

[searcher]

About an hour ago I received a message from Facebook:

A Page you like is changing its name.
Banners Broker Network" is changing to "Latest Mobile Phone accessories informations". !!!!

[shipdit]

.
It always amazes me to see how the serial Ponzi pimps have a habit of leaving their promotional crap pages to a particular SCAM up in their hurry to move on to the next SCAM.

Scammer Annegrete Krings, from: Banners Broker Review by Annegrete Krings (http://www.apsense.com/page/bannersbroker-marketplace?ref=annegrete)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/shipdit/annegretekrings10_zps5a2d4c54.jpg~original

SD

.

[littleroundman]

Don't you just love Annegretes' first line:

"Banners Broker has a unique concept"

You sure as h*** got that right, Annegrete.

[Mundorf]

What I find even more unique...are the BB people....can you imagine TO START doing anything with something you do not understand a bit about ?...put vagabond in a surgery room and ask him to operate the patient ...well,let's say that would be strange...but if a vagabond would start with operation,that would be bloody unique.

[Beacon]

What I find even more unique...are the BB people....can you imagine TO START doing anything with something you do not understand a bit about ?...put vagabond in a surgery room and ask him to operate the patient ...well,let's say that would be strange...but if a vagabond would start with operation,that would be bloody unique.
LOL. the thing is there is nothing unique about this basically
1. Confidence Trickster gets a mark to part with their money
2. the money goes to their con system
3. They "system" pays back a little more than the mark put in
4. They get the mark to get others to put in money
5. They may or may not pay mark after that. They probably will pay over say 5% of what comes in as long as the mark's downline keeps bringing in money.

There is nothing unique about taking money under false pretenses and keeping it. It is called "scamming people".

As to your humourous comment on vagabonds performing operations, it always surprises me but I have posted in the past of the type of people who are likely victims. This is not to say intelligent and knowledgeable people and those adverse to authorities telling them what to do won't get scammed. Bernie Madoff for example scammed merchant bankers.

[EagleOne]

What I find even more unique...are the BB people....can you imagine TO START doing anything with something you do not understand a bit about ?...put vagabond in a surgery room and ask him to operate the patient ...well,let's say that would be strange...but if a vagabond would start with operation,that would be bloody unique.

You got the "bloody" part right. :RpS_lol:

[Della Cate]

For sheer brass neck (and bare faced cheek) Little Jamie should win an award!
8705
Jamie, sweetie, remember posing for a photo with a man in a bad wig and sunglasses, over at the last Banners Broker shindig in Trinidad (or wherever it was)? The man who was "Ron Anderson"? And oh, Jamie, all the times you pushed Banners Broker as a genuine business! Even this year, even when the receivers were in and BB was declared "deeply insolvent". Since then, you have been very quiet about BB, I'll give you that.

But for sheer bullsh*t, you have to be up there, Little Jamie from Holmfirth.

[HARRISON]

And Little Jamie's latest wheeze is a new software programme (with a bargain price of $97 - reduced of course ) to help eliminate all the friends on your facebook friends list who just won't come out and play anymore.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4vBFsrXYf8&feature=youtu.be

[Whip]

"unfriend' doesn't work anymore?

[littleroundman]

"unfriend' doesn't work anymore?

When you have thousands of ex Banners Broker members who thought you were their "friend" and from whom you now want to distance yourself, I can imagine it must be a chore for someone like li'l Jamie to have to manually unfriend them.

[laidback]

You got the "bloody" part right. :RpS_lol: LOL, he'd hit the side and the patient's nose would light every time!!!

[Della Cate]

I see that over at the BB Ponzi Scam FB page, our old chum Mark Ghobril has popped up, crowing about the case Demain took against Simon Stepsys:-

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Banners-Broker-Ponzi-Scam/398614356881465?fref=ts

I know the law is an uncertain thing, so I would like to know Demian's side of it.

Ghobril says that Demian's case was struck out, by the way.

[Whip]

I see that over at the BB Ponzi Scam FB page, our old chum Mark Ghobril has popped up, crowing about the case Demain took against Simon Stepsys:-

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Banners-Broker-Ponzi-Scam/398614356881465?fref=ts

I know the law is an uncertain thing, so I would like to know Demian's side of it.

Ghobril says that Demian's case was struck out, by the way.

and, of course, absolutely no court documentation to back it up.

[HARRISON]

I see that over at the BB Ponzi Scam FB page, our old chum Mark Ghobril has popped up, crowing about the case Demain took against Simon Stepsys:-

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Banners-Broker-Ponzi-Scam/398614356881465?fref=ts

I know the law is an uncertain thing, so I would like to know Demian's side of it.

Ghobril says that Demian's case was struck out, by the way.


He can't even lie well. Nasty little man...

8742

[Whip]

oh nooooooooooes!!!!!!!!!!! the devil page! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Whip412/aagh.gif (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Whip412/media/aagh.gif.html)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Whip412/aagh.gif (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Whip412/media/aagh.gif.html)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Whip412/aagh.gif (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Whip412/media/aagh.gif.html)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Whip412/aagh.gif (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Whip412/media/aagh.gif.html)http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Whip412/aagh.gif (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Whip412/media/aagh.gif.html)

[Whip]

He can't even lie well. Nasty little man...

8742

the gerbil caught on tape: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Whip412/girl_tantrum-1.gif (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Whip412/media/girl_tantrum-1.gif.html)

[littleroundman]

http://imageshack.com/a/img910/522/d3a0kO.jpg

You would think anyone who would give Ghobril their credit card and banking OR baking information would be asking for trouble

[NikSam]

http://imageshack.com/a/img910/522/d3a0kO.jpg

You would think anyone who would give Ghobril their credit card and banking OR baking information would be asking for trouble
..........
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/7b/7bb72ef77a1b368b6c91188a77337c3ccbd28f62b3d60480f5 a50b45e58deafa.jpg

[Joe_Shmoe]

I love this classic Banners Broker video.
Roland Millward Promising to Double your money.
Roland would like to have a chat with you.
Just take a look at the Ad-Pub Combo classic.


http://www.dailymotion.com/cabanefeline

[EagleOne]

I love this classic Banners Broker video.
Roland Millward Promising to Double your money.
Roland would like to have a chat with you.
Just take a look at the Ad-Pub Combo classic.


http://www.dailymotion.com/cabanefeline

Ah, the good "OLE" days when the scamming was easy! Wanna bet he wishes he had never made that video now?

[Joe_Shmoe]

Ah, the good "OLE" days when the scamming was easy! Wanna bet he wishes he had never made that video now?

Indeed I would say that he regrets it that much that like some of our other Banners Broker Pimp friends he has contacted Google, so as to give his internet identity a little wash and brush up.

It hasn't helped that much though.

8805

[NikSam]

stop writing, leave the page count on this magical number :)

[littleroundman]

I love this classic Banners Broker video.
Roland Millward Promising to Double your money.
Roland would like to have a chat with you.
Just take a look at the Ad-Pub Combo classic.


http://www.dailymotion.com/cabanefeline




http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x198czo_roland_news

[HARRISON]

There seems to be activity on the Banners Broker Twitter feed as I've been blocked within the last couple of days:
8836

[JustTooMuchTime]

I just looked and the last post is dated August 25, 2014.

[Whip]

It's time to scrub.

[ribshaw]

There seems to be activity on the Banners Broker Twitter feed as I've been blocked within the last couple of days:

That will teach you, I hope the next time you think about questioning the integrity of Chris Smith you count to 10 and cool your engines.

Too bad social media don't have a button like this:

8837

[NikSam]

Santa Claus is a SCAM !!!

Here , I said it.

[Dreamstealer]

Santa Claus is a SCAM !!!

Here , I said it.

And Jesus was not white but is often shown as white. SCAM. Even so Merry Xmas.

[CitizenKhan]

Can we have a sticky for all promoters / pimps for BB.

Simon Stepsys
Imtiaz Aslam (His right handman and heavy promoter of BB, ran meetings)
Sharon James (Or Imy's bit on the side both were sharing rooms in hotels).
Duncan 'bold' Wood
'Sheikh' Imran Nauth (aka BB's own "fake" Sheikh). Last I heard now moved out of Bradford and living with his 2nd wife in Batley!
Jamie 'Little' Waters of Holmfirth (now living in a Shed)
Alan Sills living in an RV
Roland 'Internet Maestro' Millward - runs every pyramid, MLM scheme going.....

I'm sure there are a few dozen more. If we have a sticky, authorities will stumble upon this thread and prosecute these fraudsters.

[littleroundman]

Good idea.

Such a thread already exists - so I made it a sticky here: Banners Broker shills - where are they now (http://www.realscam.com/f8/banners-broker-shills-where-they-now-2922/)

[HARRISON]

Spergel is down.
8844

[CitizenKhan]

Is there any way of telling these website orgnisers that Septic Simon Stepsys is a fraudster ?

Apparently 155 people agree Simon should be a top internet marketer - he knows just about Internet Marketing as guy cleaning toilets :)

Top Internet Marketers In Direct Selling - Poll 2014 (http://www.businessforhome.org/2014/12/top-internet-marketers-in-direct-selling-poll-2014/)

[Whip]

http://www.hostpic.org/images/1306102055480116.jpg

[ribshaw]

Is there any way of telling these website orgnisers that Septic Simon Stepsys is a fraudster ?

Apparently 155 people agree Simon should be a top internet marketer - he knows just about Internet Marketing as guy cleaning toilets :)

Top Internet Marketers In Direct Selling - Poll 2014 (http://www.businessforhome.org/2014/12/top-internet-marketers-in-direct-selling-poll-2014/)

If 24 sheep up vote not being paid, and one real dummy thought this was such good news that they should share it, Simon getting 155 votes with his email begging for votes seems one more dirty corner of the fantasy world these folks live in.

8848

http://www.realscam.com/f9/my-advertising-pays-scam-ponzi-3439/index13.html#post79581


BEGGAR AND SCAMMER Simon Stepsys simonstepsys@btinternet.com via aweber.com

Hi Subscriber

Thanks for being a loyal email subscriber. We appreciate hearing from you. Let us know if you ever have any questions.
It's the season of good will, and on that basis...

Could you please do me a huge Christmas Holidays
Favor please?

I got nominated to be one of the top 75 Internet
Marketers of 2014 which is a HUGE honor!

Last time I checked I was in the top 10 Worldwide which is
great in itself however the huge competitor in me has appeared

And...

I'd love to be number one on this list! Let's face it who wouldn't.

I really really could use your vote...

All you have to do is go to the link below and select
me from the drop down menu and click VOTE!

FBI — New E-Scams & Warnings (http://www.fbi.gov/scams-safety/e-scams)

Thank you SOOO Much and Happy Christmas Holidays!

Simon Stepsys
NetMillionaire

Call/Text me anytime you have problems getting paid or just want to yell at me for lying and stealing your money on UK +44 (0) 7971 88 55 60 (I'm here to help myself at your expense)

Skype: mentofofmillionaires

P.S. While you're online if you have not checked out how you can be
making money within the hour then every 20 minutes then go here
watch the step by step presentation videos then sign up (no cost)

Scam Alerts | Consumer Information (http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/scam-alerts)


8847

[Whip]

I nominated myself to be one of the top 75,000,000 alleged 'Internet
Marketers' of 2014 which gives me HUGE boner!

Last time I checked with myself, I was in the top 10 in my World-wide which is
great in itself however the huge scammer in me has again appeared

edited for accuracy.

[Beacon]

Is there any way of telling these website orgnisers that Septic Simon Stepsys is a fraudster ?

Apparently 155 people agree Simon should be a top internet marketer

Top Internet Marketers In Direct Selling - Poll 2014 (http://www.businessforhome.org/2014/12/top-internet-marketers-in-direct-selling-poll-2014/)

And that would be from a source so trustworthy they put Chris smith CEO of Banners Broker at number three in the world?
The Top Direct Selling Companies In The World In 2013 (http://www.businessforhome.org/2012/12/the-top-direct-selling-companies-in-the-world-in-2013-poll/)

[Mundorf]

And that would be from a source so trustworthy they put Chris smith CEO of Banners Broker at number three in the world?
The Top Direct Selling Companies In The World In 2013 (http://www.businessforhome.org/2012/12/the-top-direct-selling-companies-in-the-world-in-2013-poll/)
The source itself is not far from scam staff ....I see many rubbish there...like Empower Network for example ...totally worthless in my opinion

[Mundorf]

Is there any way of telling these website orgnisers that Septic Simon Stepsys is a fraudster ?

Apparently 155 people agree Simon should be a top internet marketer - he knows just about Internet Marketing as guy cleaning toilets :)

Top Internet Marketers In Direct Selling - Poll 2014 (http://www.businessforhome.org/2014/12/top-internet-marketers-in-direct-selling-poll-2014/)

If few hundreds thousand BB members were thinking they do serious business ,155 is in fact very bad result for Simon...obviously Simon is a bad hunter because catch is everywhere to find

[Char]

Is there any way of telling these website orgnisers that Septic Simon Stepsys is a fraudster ?

Apparently 155 people agree Simon should be a top internet marketer - he knows just about Internet Marketing as guy cleaning toilets :)

Top Internet Marketers In Direct Selling - Poll 2014 (http://www.businessforhome.org/2014/12/top-internet-marketers-in-direct-selling-poll-2014/)

No doubt the people holding the vote are just as bad.

What some others may fail to realize is that voting for "Top Internet Marketer" is no different than voting for:

* Top drug dealer
* Top gang member
* Top prison inmate


An Internet Marketer in direct selling translates to all things bad unless you find stealing and misleading others good.

Hardly something to boast about. In fact, hopefully the time will come when all these internet marketers find themselves on the "Prison Inmate Hotties" list.

[littleroundman]

C'mon,

With Tony Rush, Simon Stepsys and Kai Lo in the top 20, how could anyone take this seriously ??

Three of the top HYIP ponzi and pyramid scheme promoters on the 'net today.

The other nominees should hang their heads in shame just for being associated with names like that.

"Internet marketers" my a**

http://imageshack.com/a/img538/5991/1Lptrx.jpg

[EagleOne]

What the heck? Brad Heather did not make the top 76? Seriously? Brad Heather, what happened? You keep claiming you are this successful Internet Marketer and you couldn't crack the top 76? Egads what's this world coming to?

[Mundorf]

..oh..... Mike Filsaime ....then you know what kind of the list is this....forget it...I bet many on the list do not need to hang their heads in shame for they have no shame.

[Brenda]

Just reading an update on this terrible tragedy that happened the other day. Came across the comment by Evoke. Of course the connection to BB can not be proven from this comment alone but certainly food for thought given that we do know that Cork had a huge number of affiliates.

Murder-suicide dad in legal battle with three different banks - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/murdersuicide-dad-in-legal-battle-with-three-different-banks-30869593.html)

[Whip]

..oh..... Mike Filsaime ....then you know what kind of the list is this....forget it...I bet many on the list do not need to hang their heads in shame for they have no shame.

it's pretty much a small who's who list of scammers. can't believe sloan didn't nominate herself and see russo was smart enough not to.

[Mundorf]

it's pretty much a small who's who list of scammers. can't believe sloan didn't nominate herself and see russo was smart enough not to.

...but Maryanne Myers would certainly love to see her on the prestige list.

[Beacon]

Spergel is down.
8844

Get down! Get back up again!

Banners Brokers International Limited | Spergel (http://www.spergelcorporate.ca/active-files-list/banners-brokers-international-limited/)

[Beacon]

Get down! Get back up again!

Banners Brokers International Limited | Spergel (http://www.spergelcorporate.ca/active-files-list/banners-brokers-international-limited/)

In case people have not read the entire Tower of Babel may I direct your attention to the most recent doccument
http://www.spergelcorporate.ca/wp-content/resources/activefiles/Motion%20Record%20of%20the%20Receiver%20and%20Join t%20Liquidators%20dated%20October%202%202014.pdf

Hint: If you are looking for something look at the first few pages in these files and they have a list of contents with page references.

I note a lot of internet pages from BBPS facebook and Finch and others are reproduced in colour ( yes I spell color the Canadian way). I liked the reference to the court files as "fifty shades of grey for lawyers" LOL spergel have a lot of self references in all these internet pages.

As many of you are aware with Ponzis and HYIPs they tend to give people excuses and the runaround with delays and rarely supply information requested

You might note what happens when a court is asking this. Look in this file at the correspondence with Chris smiths lawyer about looking for information from CS on BB and associated companies. It begins on page 228 and runs to 238. they try the usual "runaround" stuff e.g. Im busy with other business, Im not around, ther is nobody else to deal with this. Spergel nicely deal with this in a matter of days. ~ Acknowledge by letter receipt of all replies with date and time of email sent usually within a day of getting it. They dismiss all the runaround waffle and continually point out the court has asked Smith to provide the information and the lawyer who appeared in court Harry
Fogul
[hfogul@airdberlis.com] was told by the Judge to supply someone who could provide the information if he could not or was not going to do it himself. Now I dont know what the court will do but I suspect the "Im too busy" "I need to review it before I give you the information" and "chris in not around" wont really wash with the Judge and not just Banners Broker but Aird and Berlis will find themselves in difficulty over this.
As the song goes~
Hard rain's gonna fall.

Note also the property valuations following this section as you can add on several million more to the $6million in cash in IoM and other smaller accounts to add to. Although it does not make up to the $70 million or so that seems to have come into the scheme at least ten ot fifteen million seems to be there.

[CitizenKhan]

Given that Ian Driscoll brought lots of victims to BB, actively pushing it knowing fully well that it was a Ponzi scheme and give us your money and we will double it claims!

I for one, do not wish to see Ian Driscoll get a penny out of this.

In fact, I wish to see him do time behind bars and get special soapy showers, get aids! You get my drift....

He deserves to be shafted like he shafted tens of thousands of victims!


How can I do this legally? Should I contact courts if so - will a collective action, by all of us, have a great voice?

[littleroundman]

Crimestoppers UK (https://crimestoppers-uk.org/)

Actionfraud UK Police (http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/)

National Crime Agency UK (http://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/)

[Beacon]

Given that Ian Driscoll brought lots of victims to BB, actively pushing it knowing fully well that it was a Ponzi scheme and give us your money and we will double it claims!

I for one, do not wish to see Ian Driscoll get a penny out of this.

In fact, I wish to see him do time behind bars and get special soapy showers, get aids! You get my drift....

He deserves to be shafted like he shafted tens of thousands of victims!


you have to be careful about what you say. It may all be true but if you appeared as a witness in a court and the above message was reproduced or you were asked if that is what you believe it would make your testimony look biased.
A court ( well a criminal one) has to assume Driscol is innocent. also if you are taking a civil case you have to have standing i.e. you have to be directly involved. You cant sue Driscoll for something that happened to someone else.

Given the above the best you could do is contact someone ( the liquidaror of BB for example in the Civil case or the police officer investigating a criminal case) and supply them not with your opinion but evidence e.g. video evidence of him saying he will "double your money" ; explanations of what a cycler or doubler is in ; evidence of people being involved in several similar schemes and therefore knowing how they work etc. In fact much of that type of evidence is in this very discussion. If you look at what Spergel have been compiling you might note documents from here, Finch, BB scam Facebook page etc. So just contributing to the discussion is assisting in compiling such information in one place.


How can I do this legally? Should I contact courts if so - will a collective action, by all of us, have a great voice?

In the direct IoM case and his claim for the six million you could contact the liquidator with anything you know about him, his history , and his ongoing involvment in similar schemes. Supply them with actual evidence such as video evidence (IIR there is a video of him in the Carribean in this thread talking about emergent technology). If you can sho he was involved in similar schemes before and after BB the claim he was duped will be very weak argument.

By the way British Law does not have "Class Action"

[Della Cate]

Over on the BB Ponzi Scam FB page, it says that the liquidators of BB have now filed a notice of disclaimer against property held by Stellarpoint. From my very brief research, it seems that this is standard practice - to remove personal liability from liquidators - where property is held to be "onerous".

"Onerous" property is apparently that which is unsaleable or not easily saleable, and which might give rise to a continuing liability.

I am not a lawyer, so I haven't got a clue what the implications of this are. Could it be that they want to speed up the process? Why is Stellarpoint property "onerous" anyway? Or is it just part of the process?

[HARRISON]

Over on the BB Ponzi Scam FB page, it says that the liquidators of BB have now filed a notice of disclaimer against property held by Stellarpoint. From my very brief research, it seems that this is standard practice - to remove personal liability from liquidators - where property is held to be "onerous".

"Onerous" property is apparently that which is unsaleable or not easily saleable, and which might give rise to a continuing liability.

I am not a lawyer, so I haven't got a clue what the implications of this are. Could it be that they want to speed up the process? Why is Stellarpoint property "onerous" anyway? Or is it just part of the process?

I'm just guessing Della, but didn't Stellarpoint share this building with another company? So again, I'm guessing it was rented rather than brought? This would mean that the Receivers will be liable for rent if they have confiscated the property - hence the Disclaimer. This is good news, it means they are working really hard in the background. Really looking forward to when it all comes out in the open.

[Ken Roklin]

I'm just guessing Della, but didn't Stellarpoint share this building with another company? So again, I'm guessing it was rented rather than brought? This would mean that the Receivers will be liable for rent if they have confiscated the property - hence the Disclaimer. This is good news, it means they are working really hard in the background. Really looking forward to when it all comes out in the open.
Raj purchased the building with cash. However, he did rent out some floor space to other companies and that could present a problem for prospective purchasers depending upon the type and length of the leases the tenants signed.

[Abj2k9]

Raj purchased the building with cash. However, he did rent out some floor space to other companies and that could present a problem for prospective purchasers depending upon the type and length of the leases the tenants signed.


Stellar Point is located in Salford Quays, where the new BBC headquarters are.....5 mins away from Old Trafford ( Home of Manchester United FC ) that building would be worth over £1M.....If Raj did purchase that with BB cash then it'll be in the assets Dept on the liquidators / receivers list? Hopefully will be sold & the cash will filter through to BB members?

[Ken Roklin]

Stellar Point is located in Salford Quays, where the new BBC headquarters are.....5 mins away from Old Trafford ( Home of Manchester United FC ) that building would be worth over £1M.....If Raj did purchase that with BB cash then it'll be in the assets Dept on the liquidators / receivers list? Hopefully will be sold & the cash will filter through to BB members?

I think we were talking about Stellar's headquarters in Whitby, Ontario, Canada. He may have, but I doubt Raj would have purchased any buildings in other countries (except for India).

[HARRISON]

NEW COURT DOCUMENTS RELEASED:

The courts have now allowed the frozen payment processor funds to be released to the Receivers:


http://www.spergelcorporate.ca/wp-content/resources/activefiles/Motion%20Record%20of%20the%20Receiver%20and%20JLs% 20(Motion%20for%20Continued%20Restraint).pdf

http://www.spergelcorporate.ca/wp-content/resources/activefiles/Order%20of%20Justice%20Newbould%20-%2001%2014%2015.pdf

http://www.spergelcorporate.ca/wp-content/resources/activefiles/Endorsement%20of%20Justice%20Newbould%20-%2001%2014%2015.pdf

[path2prosperity]

..oh..... Mike Filsaime ....then you know what kind of the list is this....forget it...I bet many on the list do not need to hang their heads in shame for they have no shame.

He and Ewen Chia are a combination that would curdle milk!

[Ken Roklin]

NEW COURT DOCUMENTS RELEASED:

The courts have now allowed the frozen payment processor funds to be released to the Receivers:


http://www.spergelcorporate.ca/wp-content/resources/activefiles/Motion%20Record%20of%20the%20Receiver%20and%20JLs% 20(Motion%20for%20Continued%20Restraint).pdf

http://www.spergelcorporate.ca/wp-content/resources/activefiles/Order%20of%20Justice%20Newbould%20-%2001%2014%2015.pdf

http://www.spergelcorporate.ca/wp-content/resources/activefiles/Endorsement%20of%20Justice%20Newbould%20-%2001%2014%2015.pdf

As stated in the court documents, Stellar Point's building at 5 Carlow Court was sold in March 2014 for $1.2 mil. Who knows where that money is now. Another building on Bayview Ave., in Toronto, owned by Smith was/is up for sale for $4.1 mil.

[Mundorf]

But slowly...as it always is with complex crime investigation...the Gordian knot is being resolved.Slowly the names and numbers will rise surface like rocks during low tide.However it will take few months more before all the heads of the dragon become visible - more we wait means more dirty games investigators discover and probably it will be much more then we expected.

[NikSam]

Good thing is that more money discovered:
Turnaround was in tens of millions on those but around $650k left there can be recovered:

beanStream - $537k
STP - around $85k
Payza - around $30k

Also one offshore bank acc in St. Lucia was discovered, where as of Jan 2014, the balance was $4.8m, the balance as of now is unknown.

[Mr. Anderson]

From the Liquidator's Motion of Jan 14, 2015, page 8:

"The Receiver is not at this stage of its investigation in a postion to conclude
that BBIL or Banners Broker was in fact a ponzi scheme, pyramid scheme, or
criminal enterprise more generally."

Even despite the statements from ex-employees? They even interviewed our friend Terry and the programmer that made the panels dance. What more do they need?!? At least they're continuing the investigation.

[Whip]

you don't really think insiders are going to roll over do you? especially 'stern'. he was one of the biggest douchebag defenders.

[EagleOne]

You have to remember who hired this team in the first place. If they determine it is a Ponzi, or a criminal enterprise, their client Ian Driscoll stands to lose his claim. If that happens, they get a lesser cut than if Ian gets his millions he has sued for in this case. The monkey wrench is if the Canadian authorities take action citing BB committed securities violations, Ian hasn't a prayer of recovery. I think they are trying to rush this to conclusion before the Canadian authorities take action. That is provided they do take action.

[EagleOne]

It is hard to believe at times that after over 2 years since the last payout this is still limping along with members hanging on thinking it will come back. Considering all that has been said, written and posted about BB you would think that the members would have gone to the authorities en masse filing complaints against them. Sadly that has not been the case. If the truth were known, it is probably only a handful of members who have filed complaints with their law enforcement or regulatory authorities.

As was stated back in January of 2013, the question was would this die a slow death, disappear overnight or would the authorities act? Well, we have known the answer to that question for quite some time now. The only real question is how many of the members still believe BB is real and will pay them?

I find the statement by the appointed Receiver that no determination can be made if BB is a Ponzi or a criminal enterprise incredulous. Really makes you question the rationale for that statement and if it is based on a bias not to find the evidence of wrong doing by BB. To do so means you have to totally dismiss all the information that is available on so many forums and blogs as not being credible and defying/suspending all logic. As the saying goes, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, craps like a duck, it is a duck; except in the Receiver's eyes it seems.

[laidback]

if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, craps like a duck, Holy Crap, it's a Duck!!!

[Ken Roklin]

You have to remember who hired this team in the first place. If they determine it is a Ponzi, or a criminal enterprise, their client Ian Driscoll stands to lose his claim. If that happens, they get a lesser cut than if Ian gets his millions he has sued for in this case. The monkey wrench is if the Canadian authorities take action citing BB committed securities violations, Ian hasn't a prayer of recovery. I think they are trying to rush this to conclusion before the Canadian authorities take action. That is provided they do take action.
How can they not determine that it was a pyramid scheme (Ponzi) when the RCMP believes it is. I know they are slow in arresting Smith and Raj but I am sure they are going to once they have got everything they need to make the charges stand up in court. According to the affidavit by a RCMP officer and filed in the
Superior Court of Ontario:

CANADA
PROVINCE OF ONTARIO
CITY OF TORONTO
Police File Number: RCMP 2014-1863297

AFFIDAVIT IN SUPPORT OF AN APPLICATION

FOR RESTRAINT ORDER
-
This is the information of:
Constable Katie Judd
a member of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police,
Peace Officer, of the City of Toronto in the Province of Ontario,
now called the "Informant", taken before me.

The Informant says there are reasonable grounds to believe, and does believe, that
Christopher George Smith (Date of Birth: 1970-08-28), Rajiv Dixit (Date of Birth: 1970-
09-23), and others known or unknown, using associated companies, have committed:'
sometime between October 2010 to present day the following offences:

Pyramid Scheme, contrary to Section 206(1)(e) of the Criminal Code;
Fraud, contrary to Section 380(1) of the Criminal Code;
Possession of Property Obtained by Crime, contrary to Section 354(1) of the Criminal Code;
Laundering the Proceeds of Crime, contrary to Section 462.31 of the Criminal Code;
Making False or Misleading Representations, contrary to Section 52(1) of the Competition Act;

[Mundorf]

If the reasonable grounds can be translated as the facts then believing is an inferior condition...or you have facts and know or you don't have and do not know...no...I think investigators know by now very well what is or was BB but in this very moment is not their priority ...might be they "sold" ponzi facts,charges for more info about money obscure transactions or other illegal discoveries we have no idea about.Trade with facts,charges is well known reality during many investigations...many times police "forget" some crimes if they get entrance in a bigger thing,crime which can harm society much strongly - what if Chris has sold many of this passports and ID documents??..If I would be a police officer I would - in this very moment of terrorism spreading across the world - ...I would INSTANTLY want to know who got all the documents...games with money would be in plan B

[HARRISON]

Little Jamie's post on his FB page warning others against 'utoken'. It might be DODGY! AND, they had the cheek to delete some perfectly sensible questions he asked! Don't these people know who Jamie IS??????

:RpS_lol::RpS_lol::RpS_lol::RpS_lol::RpS_lol::RpS_ lol::RpS_lol::RpS_lol::RpS_lol::RpS_lol:

9222

[Della Cate]

Little Jamie's post on his FB page warning others against 'utoken'. It might be DODGY! AND, they had the cheek to delete some perfectly sensible questions he asked! Don't these people know who Jamie IS??????

:RpS_lol::RpS_lol::RpS_lol::RpS_lol::RpS_lol::RpS_ lol::RpS_lol::RpS_lol::RpS_lol::RpS_lol:

9222

Oh, but Harrison, there is more.....look at these comments from Lil' Jamie's FB page under that same entry about "utoken".

9248

Ironic or what???????????????

[Beacon]

How can they not determine that it was a pyramid scheme (Ponzi) when the RCMP believes it is.

My two cents. It is not for the enforcement branch =the police- to decide who committed a crime. That is a job of a court to decide. Likewise the liquidator. Both however could give their opinion and it appears only the RCMP have given theirs. Maybe the liquidator does not want to prejudice any investigations. But given the mass of evidence so far it is a bit like Holocaust denial to say "we don't really know what happened so we cant really say it is a ponzi yet" .

[EagleOne]

Not sure where you got the idea that it is the court who decides who committed a crime. On the local level, the police do their investigation and submit their findings to the DA. It is the DA who determines if a crime occurred for charges to be filed and against whom. The court is the arbiter of the proceedings between the DA and the accused. The jury, if there is one, determines if they are guilty or innocent. If guilty, then the court has to rule on the sentence the person found guilty will receive.

On the Federal level, the FBI or Secret Service here in the U.S., or in Canada the RCMP, will conduct an investigation and submit their findings to the U.S. Attorney. They will then determine if charges will be filed and against whom. In Canada I believe this would be the Crown Attorney, but they are the ones who will make the determination if a crime has been committed and there is sufficient evidence to charge the parties who committed the crime, not the court.

[littleroundman]

My two cents. It is not for the enforcement branch =the police- to decide who committed a crime. That is a job of a court to decide. Likewise the liquidator. Both however could give their opinion and it appears only the RCMP have given theirs. Maybe the liquidator does not want to prejudice any investigations. But given the mass of evidence so far it is a bit like Holocaust denial to say "we don't really know what happened so we cant really say it is a ponzi yet" .

One hesitates to stereotype, but bureaucratic two stepping is precisely the reason Canada has the reputation it has WRT being a semi safe haven for HYIP fraudsters.

It certainly appears from the outside that the relevant authorities in Canada are more concerned with conforming to "the rules" than they are with actually catching the fraudsters

[Ken Roklin]

One hesitates to stereotype, but bureaucratic two stepping is precisely the reason Canada has the reputation it has WRT being a semi safe haven for HYIP fraudsters.

It certainly appears from the outside that the relevant authorities in Canada are more concerned with conforming to "the rules" than they are with actually catching the fraudsters

If you are going to make comments as per the above, you should also mention that the reputation you are mentioning is a pretty old one and no longer accurate.

If Canada were such a safe haven why is it that most of these scams are based out of countries other than Canada? It's not logical that if Canada is such a "safe haven" for these scams that it has very few of these programs residing in Canada compared to the large number of new Ponzi's, HYIP's, HYBRID's being started daily world-wide.

[littleroundman]

It's not logical

And "logic" has what to do with it ??

How many HYIPs would you think have used SolidTrustPay as the payment processor of choice

And please don't hit me with that crap about "other countries"

We're not talking about "other countries"

[Whip]

I was back reading the first few pages of this thread reminiscing and came across this post by Joe Schmoe:

9284

and Joe was right........it looks just plain silly. especially after he has tried to scrub any association with this scam from the web.

[Ken Roklin]

And "logic" has what to do with it ??

How many HYIPs would you think have used SolidTrustPay as the payment processor of choice

And please don't hit me with that crap about "other countries"

We're not talking about "other countries"

Most people when making decisions base their decision on some kind of logic, however, I admit, there are those that don't use logic.

The people that don't want to hear about scams in "other countries" probably live in one of them. The point is if you are going to bash another country at least do it with current "facts" and not based on info that's no longer relevant.

[Beacon]

One hesitates to stereotype, but bureaucratic two stepping is precisely the reason Canada has the reputation it has WRT being a semi safe haven for HYIP fraudsters.

It certainly appears from the outside that the relevant authorities in Canada are more concerned with conforming to "the rules" than they are with actually catching the fraudsters

Funny i note BB was going in Cyprus India Ireland UK US France Poland Portugal Carribean and Canada. ther was nothing other than an office
in the Isle of Man by which I mean no numbers of affiliates from the IoM. Ditto for Belize. But so for the ONLY authorities Im aware of who actually did anything in terms of action were IoM and CANADA. THe Indian case may be an exception or it may be a knock on from the Bento divorce and a personal falling out rather than a criminal investigation but in any case that has not resolved yet.

So Canada in this case dont seem to have fared badly in comparison to others. then again this may also be because several people from RS and elsewhere have been pushing the Canadian authorities to act since Raj was active there and also because of the work of Ms Judd of the RCMP who seems to have acted on this case. So the question would be what "rules" was she being forced to follow and how come the Canadian court and liquidator seem to have enforced their "rules" and all these other countries did little or nothing about their rules?

[littleroundman]

The point is if you are going to bash another country

Get off your defensive high horse, Ken.

It's not about "bashing" Canada.

It's about the fact Canada is a relatively small country with a relatively small population in comparison to say the USA or UK.

It has also, as you pointed out, a relatively small number of HYIP ponzi frauds in comparison to many other countries.

Which brings me to the point, there were countless complaints made to the Canadian authorities alerting them to the existence of Banners Broker.

Canada is a relatively small country with a relatively small population and a small number of HYIP ponzi frauds.

It's not like its' regulators are over run with HYIPs.

It didn't act.

AGAIN.

[Ken Roklin]

Get off your defensive high horse, Ken.

It's not about "bashing" Canada.

It's about the fact Canada is a relatively small country with a relatively small population in comparison to say the USA or UK.

It has also, as you pointed out, a relatively small number of HYIP ponzi frauds in comparison to many other countries.

Which brings me to the point, there were countless complaints made to the Canadian authorities alerting them to the existence of Banners Broker.

Canada is a relatively small country with a relatively small population and a small number of HYIP ponzi frauds.

It's not like its' regulators are over run with HYIPs.

It didn't act.

AGAIN.
Whether or not you think you weren't bashing Canada your post about Canada being a semi safe haven for these scams was based on information that is no longer relevant. Posters have been criticized here for making statements, such as yours, without backing them up with current and relevant facts and I think as an Administrator you should abide by the same guidelines.

Also, in the case of BB, Canada did act unlike all the other countries where the scam was promoted heavily.

[littleroundman]

I think

I think Canada inherited a bureaucratic system from its' days as a British colony and, rather than shake off the shackles, has only multiplied that bureaucracy, leading to its' law enforcement agencies being bogged down in red tape, unable to act without consulting a squillion petty bureaucrats and politicians.

Throw in Canadas' inter-jurisdictional rivalries and IM(very)HO, you have the Banners Broker surviving and thriving much longer than was necessary story.

You think different.

End of.

[NikSam]

...Canada did act unlike all the other countries where the scam was promoted heavily.

Ken, Canadian athorities (while having enough evidence) failed to act so many times, and let the criminals just walk out laughing at them.
Just the market share of canadian money laundering networks (Payza/SolidTrustPay/Egopay) i would say currently is 60%. (The rest being PerfectMoney/Payeer/OkPay - all russian)
Yes 60% of cybercrime money are going through them and interconnecting to canadian and offshore banks, FinTRAC totally fails to do what it MUST.
Such infrastructure attracting the criminals to your country. I knew several HYIP admins in Canada, with enough evidence to lock them up, nobody at all wants to arrest them - it is like the twilight zone.


And no, nothing changed, it became worse as number of SCAMS increases, i can tell you in US it definitely went down, people prefer to base their operations in Canada because it is progressive country with high standard of living but lacks on prosecution of the white collar crime – which attracts criminals from other countries to move in, or locals to commit such crime.
Things like STP/Egopay/Payza cannot exists in US as long as they been committing money laundering in Canada.


And nobody attacks your country, just that inability of the authorities to act, there are definitely worse countries but scammers would better take Canada with their banks who can move huge $$ offshore hiding from the authorities :)

I can tell you even more, Ukraine and Russia is about 70% of all HYIP fraud market, i would never go on defense if you told me that.

But even they use Canadian banks and money laundering networks.

P.S. You will have a chance to see yet again how canadians will screw up with BB and Nick Smirnoff
- they will probably just fine them or 1-2 years in prison or just will let them go or run.


P.P.S. As another point go through the canadian list of securities violations (http://www.autorites-valeurs-mobilieres.ca/),
filter out offline ponzi schemes, and see how the criminals paid for it – it is a freaking twilight zone - just a slap on hands and a fine.
Track down how many of those were charged criminally after it, you would be surprised , sometimes I would even think that Canada was built for financial crimes.

[NikSam]

also on BB fallout in Canada, i give the full credit to the liquidators (not as much as to RCMP)
I can only imagine how annoyed they were and how many doors they had to knock to make the impossible as to recognize the order of out–of–jurisdiction IoM court.

[Beacon]

Get off your defensive high horse, Ken.



It's about the fact Canada is a relatively small country with a relatively small population in comparison to say the USA or UK.

...Canada is a relatively small country with a relatively small population and a small number of HYIP ponzi frauds.

It's not like its' regulators are over run with HYIPs.

It didn't act.

AGAIN.

Wee it is about two thirds the size of UK in population and economy. It certainly is not small geographically. Maybe many of the emergency services are devoted to wilderness related activities.
You suggest that the "authorities" in Canada are not very active on fraud because they are inefficient, lazy or it is not something they have a lot of.
If it is not something they do not have a lot of then Canada are maybe doing something right. they cant have low crime just because they are two thirds the population of the UK.

But you suggest Canada didn't act. Fact is it DID act even if slowly. And it did so when other places were even slower. The court also set a precedent in my opinion in the way it reacted to a foreign court in the Isle of Man.

I really dont see how anything bad can be said about Canada in this which isn't worse elsewhere.

PS having read http://www.realscam.com/f8/banners-broker-hyip-ponzi-scam-897/index835.html#post81739

Im prepared to rethink my position. the question then becomes whether Canada is lacking regulation in terms of laws or in herms of will to act on sufficient laws. the courts and laws seem efficient and up to date so if money laundering and HYIP is inordinately high in Canada ( and that has not been proved) then it would be a valid claim to say authorities are failing to act.

[Ken Roklin]

Ken, Canadian athorities (while having enough evidence) failed to act so many times, and let the criminals just walk out laughing at them.
Just the market share of canadian money laundering networks (Payza/SolidTrustPay/Egopay) i would say currently is 60%. (The rest being PerfectMoney/Payeer/OkPay - all russian)
Yes 60% of cybercrime money are going through them and interconnecting to canadian and offshore banks, FinTRAC totally fails to do what it MUST.
Such infrastructure attracting the criminals to your country. I knew several HYIP admins in Canada, with enough evidence to lock them up, nobody at all wants to arrest them - it is like the twilight zone.


And no, nothing changed, it became worse as number of SCAMS increases, i can tell you in US it definitely went down, people prefer to base their operations in Canada because it is progressive country with high standard of living but lacks on prosecution of the white collar crime – which attracts criminals from other countries to move in, or locals to commit such crime.
Things like STP/Egopay/Payza cannot exists in US as long as they been committing money laundering in Canada.


And nobody attacks your country, just that inability of the authorities to act, there are definitely worse countries but scammers would better take Canada with their banks who can move huge $$ offshore hiding from the authorities :)

I can tell you even more, Ukraine and Russia is about 70% of all HYIP fraud market, i would never go on defense if you told me that.

But even they use Canadian banks and money laundering networks.

P.S. You will have a chance to see yet again how canadians will screw up with BB and Nick Smirnoff
- they will probably just fine them or 1-2 years in prison or just will let them go or run.


P.P.S. As another point go through the canadian list of securities violations (http://www.autorites-valeurs-mobilieres.ca/),
filter out offline ponzi schemes, and see how the criminals paid for it – it is a freaking twilight zone - just a slap on hands and a fine.
Track down how many of those were charged criminally after it, you would be surprised , sometimes I would even think that Canada was built for financial crimes.

You too are entitled to your opinion, however, you too have not backed those up with any new and relevant facts.

While some of the PP's may be based in Canada all the other countries allow them to operate in their country including the UK, Europe, USA. So, why aren't the authorities in those countries allowing them to operate? Why did it take the US 40 years to finally convict Madoff of the largest Ponzi scheme in US history? Because they are so tough on white collar crime?

Re- when searching the "list of security violations" in Canada have you done the same for the US, UK, etc.? I guarantee you that the list is just as long if not longer and the punishment not much different from that of Canada. Comments such as "Canada built for financial crimes", just shows that you truly know very little about Canada and it's legal system, and any comments you make regarding Canada cannot be taken seriously.

Everybody has their opinion and nothing discussed here will change anything, not even facts, so I am done with this topic.

Happy Valentine's Day everyone.

[Beacon]

Re- when searching the "list of security violations" in Canada have you done the same for the US, UK, etc.? I guarantee you that the list is just as long if not longer and the punishment not much different from that of Canada. Comments such as "Canada built for financial crimes", just shows that you truly know very little about Canada and it's legal system, and any comments you make regarding Canada cannot be taken seriously.

Everybody has their opinion and nothing discussed here will change anything, not even facts, so I am done with this topic.

Happy Valentine's Day everyone.

It seems the evidence is that Canada is the worst country in the World for facilitating HYIP scams with the exception of any other country that has the same scams. :)

[Beacon]

also on BB fallout in Canada, i give the full credit to the liquidators (not as much as to RCMP)
I can only imagine how annoyed they were and how many doors they had to knock to make the impossible as to recognize the order of out–of–jurisdiction IoM court.
But much of the credit for that goes to the Judge.

[littleroundman]

Re- when searching the "list of security violations" in Canada have you done the same for the US, UK, etc.?

I presume you know what a "strawman argument" is, Ken.

You must, you're such an expert at introducing them into a discussion.

* We're in a thread discussing Banners Broker - a Canadian based HYIP ponzi fraud. What happens in other countries is for discussion in other thread/s

* Likewise, your introduction of Bernie Madoff into the discussion is a classic red herring


any comments you make regarding Canada cannot be taken seriously. By Ken Roklin, who can only speak for himself.


however, you too have not backed those up with any new and relevant facts. As opposed to the mountains of facts you have introduced into the discussion, you mean ??

[Whip]

* We're in a thread discussing Banners Broker - a Canadian based HYIP ponzi fraud. What happens in other countries is for discussion in other thread/s



well, we are. he's been trying to claim none of it is related to banners broker Canada for some time now.

[NikSam]

P.P.S. As another point go through the canadian list of securities violations,
filter out offline ponzi schemes, and see how the criminals paid for it – it is a freaking twilight zone - just a slap on hands and a fine.
Track down how many of those were charged criminally after it, you would be surprised , sometimes I would even think that Canada was built for financial crimes.

Sorry, the more direct links to the lists are:
persons: http://www.securities-administrators.ca/disciplinedpersons.aspx?id=74
companies alerts : CSA | Enforcement | Investor Alerts (http://www.securities-administrators.ca/InvestorAlerts.aspx?id=985)



..., however, you too have not backed those up with any new and relevant facts.
..

I did, in their own relevant payprocessor's threads, saying same over and over here would be off-top.
Take any HYIP / carding / identitytheft / childporn site online and you will see by methods of deposit or p2p payments that half of the money going trough Montreal's the Patel brothers outfits and Ontario's Stella Hiemstra's SolidTrustPay.

Criminal charges against ponzi schemes operators in US are much more common, almost every one gets charged.
Yes there are definitely historically were more of them than in Canada, but 20 year jail sentences vs. 1-2 years on 1 in 10 ponzi schemes is definitely a lack of authorities to uphold the law. Laws are all in place just nobody gives a **** to enforce them.
Laws in Canada not that harsh , half of the world population will see it is not a big deal to do couple years jail time knowing that they hid multimillion dollar cushion somewhere in offshore.

[NikSam]

...

Canada is a relatively small country with a relatively small population and a small number of HYIP ponzi frauds.
...

Actually Canada territorially larger than US, not in population.




...just shows that you truly know very little about Canada and it's legal system, and any comments you make regarding Canada cannot be taken seriously. ...

I know plenty about Canada, I travel there few times a year (Ontario,Montreal)


Also as off-top, not many know that Charles Ponzi worked as a clerk at Montreal bank in 1907, the bank was charged with fraud and embezzlement. He was a close friend of the banker who disappeared, and the bank partner was also Ponzi's close friend.

So his financial crime carrier started actually in Canada, way before he launched his famous scheme.

That you can read in any biography and in his own memoirs

[ribshaw]

Did Southpark not already settle this debate?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA


An odd conversation to have. If someone said Canada put out mediocre beer or low grade weed that might be worth bickering about. Toughness on white collar crime, hardly seems up for discussion. Raj never should have been able to create Banners Broker because he should still be in the pokey for ICF World Homes.

By contrast if asked about America I would say the same thing. The SEC completely missed Madoff, and if he had ripped off a bunch of coal miners instead of Masters of the Universe he would be getting out in a few years. Whether Utah or Ontario has more boiler rooms I can't say, I do know there is too much of this crap up and running. The amount stolen on the end of a phone or keyboard versus the time spent in prison even if caught seems minimal.

[Ken Roklin]

Just some examples of sentencing for white collar crime and it shows that the sentences are all over the map and comparable in both Canada and the USA. Comparing 5 years for a $500 mil Ponzi and only 5 years vs. the 13 years a Canadian Ponzi operator received for a mere $2.4 mil fraud makes you wonder which country is tough on white collar crime.

Canada
2013, Chodorowski, investment fraud of over $5,000, must repay $1.65 mil and 6 years
2011, Dube, investment fraud, $500,000, 6 years
2010 - Johnson, Ponzi scheme, 50 investors, $2.4 mil, 13 years
2008 - DiGiuseppe, fraud over $5,000, $3.8 mil, 6 years
2008, Ellis, fraud over $5,000, @ mil, 5 years

USA
2012,Kelly,$500 mil Ponzi scheme, 5 years and repayment of $345 mil.
2014, Wright, investment fraud $1mil plus, 4 years
2011, Shereshevsky, $255 mil Ponzi, 22 years

[littleroundman]

Goodness gracious, Ken,

is "winning" so important to you that you'd go to all the trouble of posting such a pile of irrelevant nonsense which proves nothing ???

[Whip]

well, yeah. lmao

[ribshaw]

Just some examples of sentencing for white collar crime and it shows that the sentences are all over the map and comparable in both Canada and the USA. Comparing 5 years for a $500 mil Ponzi and only 5 years vs. the 13 years a Canadian Ponzi operator received for a mere $2.4 mil fraud makes you wonder which country is tough on white collar crime.

Canada
2013, Chodorowski, investment fraud of over $5,000, must repay $1.65 mil and 6 years
2011, Dube, investment fraud, $500,000, 6 years
2010 - Johnson, Ponzi scheme, 50 investors, $2.4 mil, 13 years
2008 - DiGiuseppe, fraud over $5,000, $3.8 mil, 6 years
2008, Ellis, fraud over $5,000, @ mil, 5 years

USA
2012,Kelly,$500 mil Ponzi scheme, 5 years and repayment of $345 mil.
2014, Wright, investment fraud $1mil plus, 4 years
2011, Shereshevsky, $255 mil Ponzi, 22 years

Ken your own example shows 5 crimes committed in Canada and only 3 in the US, what more proof do you need than the ink from your own pen?

[Mundorf]

Bad-mouthing any system of law in any country will not bring us anything - you can find in almost every country weak points in this area...what you do here..some of you...is dead work and it turns out looking somewhat pathetic.I am sure the investigators are doing their best contribution and results certainly will not fail.

[littleroundman]

I am sure the investigators are doing their best contribution

Investigators - yes

Their political masters - definitely no.

And without pressure or comment, that is not going to change

[Mundorf]

This is in almost every country the reality..but pro forma,if the investigators bring enough strong evidence,State Attorney's Office should draw chargers against Chris and probably some others ...while the Court should say the last word and if it should be unfavourable then State Attorney's Office can always appeal the case.

[Ken Roklin]

Goodness gracious, Ken,

is "winning" so important to you that you'd go to all the trouble of posting such a pile of irrelevant nonsense which proves nothing ???

First of all there are no winners, just posters stating their opinions and commenting on topics, some backing theirs up with facts while others don't claiming facts are irrelevant nonsense.

The topic the last few days has been how soft Canada is on white collar crimes and posters, including you, making statements to that effect without backing them up with any facts. Now, that I am giving examples of the sentencing in Canada and the US to show what some of those criminals have received you come out and state the facts are nonsense and irrelevant.

[Ken Roklin]

Ken your own example shows 5 crimes committed in Canada and only 3 in the US, what more proof do you need than the ink from your own pen?

Come on now, did you really want to see a list of thousands of US white collar criminals? I didn't think so.

[littleroundman]

You're really bad at this, aren't you Ken ???

You keep heading off into multiple strawman arguments like a child in the playground.

The fact America / UK / Australia does or does not do something is completely irrelevant.

If it were, nothing would ever change.

Unless, of course, you want to get into a discussion along the lines of "The USA does XXXX, so Canada should do XXXX"

[ribshaw]

Come on now, did you really want to see a list of thousands of US white collar criminals? I didn't think so.

LOL, I was just joshing you.

If I look at (Shereshevsky, $255 mil Ponzi, 22 years,) 55 when sentenced he will likely walk out of prison. Restitution WexTrust Ponzi scheme victims will get $22.1 million | Inside Business (http://insidebiz.com/news/wextrust-ponzi-scheme-victims-will-get-221-million) will be minimal, which it almost always is. Maybe he doesn't need to be doing the big shoe dance at the end of a rope, but life with no parole seems appropriate.

As for the others, I would ask where is the breakpoint? Is stealing 1 million so much better than stealing 200 million that someone would only get a few years? I can look at the corruption that takes place in the rest of the world and say America is not so bad, then again not so bad doesn't mean status quo should be acceptable.

Time will tell what if anything happens to Chris and Raj, with million$ involved me hopes for life sentences, or odds are we will be writing about them again in a few years.


================================================== ==================

I just found this, the fraud "could" be on the scale of BB, we just don't know.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/alberta/jury-finds-calgary-men-guilty-in-multi-million-dollar-ponzi-scheme/article23004620/

The two men were arrested in 2009.

Police said investors around the world lost between $100 million and $400 million in the scheme. The Crown says many lost their life savings, retirement plans, even equity in their homes.

The prosecution has indicated it will seek the maximum sentence of 14 years in prison. Both men had remained free on bail but were ordered kept in custody prior to a sentencing hearing expected next week.

[marsh56]

Ken, I have been following this conversation and would like to suggest that you are fighting a losing battle. Personally that is why I have pretty much stopped posting in this entire forum. It is really a waste of time in my opinion.

Unless you bow at the altar of LRM, any facts are irrelevant. Only what he and others like Ribshaw state are apparently the "god's honest truth" or are relevant.

I had always thought that one purpose of a forum was to exchange ideas and have lively debates. However that is not possible when a forum is run by those who rule with an arbitrary hand.

Redemption is not allowed either. Even though I originally was a member of BB and then began to speak out against it, LRM remained skeptical and never has had a good thing to say about my learning from my mistake and trying to help others.

In spite of the fascist methods employed here, this thread most likely succeeded in keeping a good number of people from losing to this scam. It's a shame that so many otherwise good conversations are hijacked by those who are full of themselves and do not respect the opinions of others.

Over and out.

Mark

[littleroundman]

How incredibly sad

[littleroundman]

Hey, Mark,

remind me, what was it we disagreed about ??

Oh yes, that's right, you were here defending Investment Intelligence Corporation, Prophetmax Managed fx and Michael Dillard in this thread: Investment Intelligence Corporation; dba Prophetmax Managed fx; Senen Pousa, Joel Friant, Michael Dillard (http://www.realscam.com/f8/elevation-investment-intelligence-corporation-dba-prophetmax-managed-fx-senen-pousa-joel-friant-michael-dillard-3445/), weren't you ???

Would that be these guys, by any chance ???

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/7831/oLQ65i.jpg

ProphetMax Receivership.com (http://www.prophetmaxreceivership.com/)

[Ken Roklin]

LOL, I was just joshing you.

The prosecution has indicated it will seek the maximum sentence of 14 years in prison. Both men had remained free on bail but were ordered kept in custody prior to a sentencing hearing expected next week.

I kind of figured that, LOL.

I don't agree with the max of 14 years for white collar crime, but judges hands are tied and all they can do is give the max. I would like to see Raj and Chris get the max but until that case actually gets to court we won't know. I am sure that when they are sentenced there will be many posters saying they should have received more, no matter what the term.

[Ken Roklin]

You're really bad at this, aren't you Ken ???

You keep heading off into multiple strawman arguments like a child in the playground.

The fact America / UK / Australia does or does not do something is completely irrelevant.

If it were, nothing would ever change.

Unless, of course, you want to get into a discussion along the lines of "The USA does XXXX, so Canada should do XXXX"
If I am bad at this then you are worse. There is also no point in discussing anything with you as you have no clue what a real discussion is. If you don't like the facts stated you simply say they are irrelevant and that has nothing to do with the topic. It is actually you that when confronted with not backing up accusations with facts, dismisses the comments as irrelevant, and you take your ball and go home instead of backing up your arguments with actual and relevant facts. Pathetic, really, especially for an Administrator.

[littleroundman]

@Ken,

where are Solid Trust Pay, Payza and Evopay based and what percentage of international HYIP ponzi transactions are facilitated by them ??

[Whip]

If I am bad at this then you are worse. There is also no point in discussing anything with you as you have no clue what a real discussion is.

says the guy who insists banners broker never changed it's name to stellar point even after a screenshot of the official name change had been posted in this thread.

[marsh56]

Hey LRM, glad to see you took the bait. At least you are consistent. A little off topic, wouldn't you say?

Your railing against the program you reference is weak at best. No surprise there. You fail to point out that Dillard was completely open with the members regarding the trading fiasco and that all of the other facets of the program are NOT proven to be scams.

Unless YOU can prove it was a premeditated scam, why not just close your trap about it, take your marbles and go home? Perhaps you need to look up the definition of "redemption". Dillard paid the fine and continued to build his business. Enough said.

Funny how the "big dawgs" here can say anything they want and never be corrected.

How sad.

[Ken Roklin]

says the guy who insists banners broker never changed it's name to stellar point even after a screenshot of the official name change had been posted in this thread.
Another example of someone who doesn't understand the English or reads into a statement what he wants it to say rather than what it actually says.

[Ken Roklin]

@Ken,

where are Solid Trust Pay, Payza and Evopay based and what percentage of international HYIP ponzi transactions are facilitated by them ??
Irrelevant Nonsense. Do your own homework if you want to know.

[Whip]

Another example of someone who doesn't understand the English or reads into a statement what he wants it to say rather than what it actually says.

spin it however you want, they were all the same company:

9385

[Char]

As to the whole country discussion, I'd like to remind everyone that the "mother ship" Amway is in the USA.

Yes Madoff Ponzis are different but recruitment based Ponzis/MLMs are all under the same umbrella called NETWORK MARKETING. Banners Brokers just didn't have a tangible product.

Let's put these cancer cells out of business by prevention. Teach people to stop the chain called NWM, because the authorites limited as they are, are only treating the symptoms and the disease but not the cause.

Btw, I'm an American.

[Whip]

As to the whole country discussion, I'd like to remind everyone that the "mother ship" Amway is in the USA.

Yes Madoff Ponzis are different but recruitment based Ponzis/MLMs are all under the same umbrella called NETWORK MARKETING. Banners Brokers just didn't have a tangible product.

Let's put these cancer cells out of business by prevention. Teach people to stop the chain called NWM, because the authorites limited as they are, are only treating the symptoms and the disease but not the cause.

Btw, I'm an American.

problem is, no one else has claimed their country was any better at stopping this crap than any other. roklin wants people to believe absolutely nothing happens in Canada worthy of authority intervention - it's just all going on everywhere else.

[littleroundman]

You fail to point out that Dillard was completely open with the members regarding the trading fiasco and that all of the other facets of the program are NOT proven to be scams.

You're right.

I didn't point out the receivership information was posted AFTER you were here so vociferously defending Dillard and Co

And, Dillard was charged and found guilty. All the excuses and stories in the world don't alter that fact. That's what fraudsters do, try and minimize the damage so they can carry on doing what they do.

As for being "off topic"

Ain't being an admin grand ??

[littleroundman]

Irrelevant Nonsense. Do your own homework if you want to know.

Hit a sore point, did I Ken ???

Not something we like to talk about, perhaps ??

[ribshaw]

Only what he and others like Ribshaw state are apparently the "god's honest truth" or are relevant.


Funny how the "big dawgs" here can say anything they want and never be corrected.

How sad.

There there, I set up a donation page for you, perhaps it won't solve all the world's problems but at least you won't have to blubber on your sleeve.

www.gofundme.com/helpbuymarkaboxoftissues.

9383




You fail to point out that Dillard was completely open with the members regarding the trading fiasco and that all of the other facets of the program are NOT proven to be scams.

Unless YOU can prove it was a premeditated scam, why not just close your trap about it, take your marbles and go home?

9384

As with the Banners Broker farce, anyone who was giving advice on investing knew or should have known the "trading fiasco" was a scam. As for proven, one of my favorite threads thanks for necroing it for me buddy. http://www.realscam.com/f8/elevation-investment-intelligence-corporation-dba-prophetmax-managed-fx-senen-pousa-joel-friant-michael-dillard-3445/

Maybe you have some proofs you want to add in Dillard's defense?





Dillard paid the fine and continued to build his business. Enough said.

Dillard paid the fine and continued to build his business. screw people over. Enough said.




Perhaps you need to look up the definition of "redemption".

REDEMPTION : conversion of paper money into specie

Right, like the financial bloodbath people took following Dillard into his silver trade.

[Blue Wolf]

It's a shame that so many otherwise good conversations are hijacked by those who are full of themselves and do not respect the opinions of others.



. . . says the man who couldn't care less about the opinions of others.


Honestly I could care less what any of you think about Dillard.


You can claim all you want that EVG is a scam. I could care less.


Honestly, I could care less how you all extrapolate that someone who participated in online "games" or Ponzi's is somehow not qualified to help people save and accumulate money.

[Ken Roklin]

problem is, no one else has claimed their country was any better at stopping this crap than any other. roklin wants people to believe absolutely nothing happens in Canada worthy of authority intervention - it's just all going on everywhere else.
Again, your interpretation of comments is worse than a kid in grade 1. If I said anything close to what you are claiming, POST THE PROOF.

[Ken Roklin]

Hit a sore point, did I Ken ???

Not something we like to talk about, perhaps ??

No, just using your logic when replying to posts.

[littleroundman]

Again, your interpretation of comments is worse than a kid in grade 1. If I said anything close to what you are claiming, POST THE PROOF.

You're sounding more and more like a HYIP ponzi cheerleader every day, Ken.

[Whip]

Again, your interpretation of comments is worse than a kid in grade 1. If I said anything close to what you are claiming, POST THE PROOF.

all people have to do is read your posts dude.

[Ken Roklin]

all people have to do is read your posts dude.
If they did they wouldn't come to the conclusion you did. You appear to have great difficulty understanding anything written in the English language.

[littleroundman]

I noticed you didn't post the proof of your accusation.

Now you're getting to understand why forums such as this exist.

We don't have to form a focus group, consult with stakeholders, refer our conclusions to a committee for approval or conform to a regulation first implemented during the reign of King Henry the Eight and modified by countless generations of petty bureaucrats over the intervening years or consult our supperiors

Banners Broker / Achieve Community / Telexfree / AdSurf Daily were flagged as HYIP ponzi frauds here without any of the sort of "proof" HYIP ponzi pimps and the Ken Roklins' of the world demand.

You don't agree - we get that.

You think people can't see an agenda behind your weasel words - fine- we get that too.

Carry on, Ken, it's great having you here destroying your own credibility

Oh, you think you're "winning" - we get that as well.

[NikSam]

Actually, i do not see the point of so much arguing.
Ken loves Canada, so do I. Ken goes on offensive as soon as someone says anything about Canada - we all get it, let him do. Just do not make a big scene out of it.

[littleroundman]

Ordinarily I would agree with you, NikSam.

But, this isn't about "Canada" it's about the recurring pattern of behaviour in which Ken has engaged since he joined.

Pick some inconsequential minor detail with no bearing on the subject under discussion and turn it into a full blown argument

This is a forum in which people are encouraged to express their opinion, not a court where every "T" needs crossing and every "I" needs dotting.

[Blue Wolf]

Personally that is why I have pretty much stopped posting in this entire forum.



. . . says the man who won't stop posting in this forum.

[Ken Roklin]

Actually, i do not see the point of so much arguing.
Ken loves Canada, so do I. Ken goes on offensive as soon as someone says anything about Canada - we all get it, let him do. Just do not make a big scene out of it.
I only go on the defensive when someone makes comments based on articles that he wants people to believe are current but in reality are so old I believe Noah wrote them. I have been critisized in this forum in the past for making statements and not backing them up with proof. Then when I provide proof I get "irrelevant, nonsense" just because the reader doesn't like the fact I have provided proof for my argument.

LRM states this forum doesn't care about proof. If this forum doesn't care about facts/proof when making statements then what good is it? Many people come to this forum to find facts or proof that the "business" is either real or not, many stayed out of Banners Brokers because of what they read here. Now if all the posts were just unsubstantiated opinions/comments, then what is the point of even having the forum?

There are many posters here, including you, who post relevant comments/opinions and most of the time provide proof/facts to back them up. That is what make a good forum.

My latest argument with LRM was all based on me making a simple reply to a post that stated Canada was a safe haven for Ponzi scams. All I said was that it was based on old information and no longer valid. It wasn't me that blew this up into a big deal and frankly really should have ended with that comment or provide proof to the contrary. Pretty simple.

[littleroundman]

Nah,

I'd rather keep pushing your buttons to keep you coming back and letting you hoist yourself on your own petard.

I was here yesterday, and I'll be here tomorrow.

You, on the other hand, have to make a conscious decision to come back so you can get the "last word" just as you did in your nit picking argumentative posts in the early part of this thread.

THAT is what is "simple"

[laidback]

Nah,

I'd rather keep pushing your buttons to keep you coming back and letting you hoist yourself on your own petard.

I was here yesterday, and I'll be here tomorrow.

You, on the other hand, have to make a conscious decision to come back so you can get the "last word" just as you did in your nit picking argumentative posts in the early part of this thread.

THAT is what is "simple"
Are you sure those decisions are "conscious"???

[Mundorf]

If you think BB voodoo zombies on BB Facebook page are dead then you are badly wrong.Well,I red there lot of crap but this one is on the top - "..... WHEN the Universe has had it's day with the fools and their followers that HAD to claim back their deposits, and when IT has put BB is back on track (maybe after a massive court case - PROVING that it was not and IS not a ponzi - ABSOLUTELY NO referring was needed to earn), we can all celebrate. You've Just Got To Believe..... Imagine the messy databases that have to be cleaned up to have this happen - see it happening and believe it and it IS happening. Also, Curse the Trolls to POVERTY, we can all do this! Let their shallow souls wallow in the MISERY like they spread to other good people like BB affiliates.... well, maybe just for a year or two! DRIVE ON 2015 BB." :RpS_lol: ... hallelujah

[laidback]

If you think BB voodoo zombies on BB Facebook page are dead then you are badly wrong.Well,I red there lot of crap but this one is on the top - "..... WHEN the Universe has had it's day with the fools and their followers that HAD to claim back their deposits, and when IT has put BB is back on track (maybe after a massive court case - PROVING that it was not and IS not a ponzi - ABSOLUTELY NO referring was needed to earn), we can all celebrate. You've Just Got To Believe..... Imagine the messy databases that have to be cleaned up to have this happen - see it happening and believe it and it IS happening. Also, Curse the Trolls to POVERTY, we can all do this! Let their shallow souls wallow in the MISERY like they spread to other good people like BB affiliates.... well, maybe just for a year or two! DRIVE ON 2015 BB." :RpS_lol: ... hallelujahWow he (or she) must've gotten into a stash of that whacky tabaccy...!

[marsh56]

Once again, you guys are always RIGHT and the rest of the world is WRONG.

No worries, I get it.

@Bluewolf: just being honest. Sorry if you don't like it.

@LRM: keep being always right. You're my hero.

@Ribshaw: love your sarcasm. Hope it serves you well.

Regarding Dillard (off topic but LRM opened the door--yet again), I COULD care less how you all feel. Again, apparently, the word "redemption" is not in your collective vocabulary.

How sad.

Ciao.

Mark

[Ken Roklin]

Once again, you guys are always RIGHT and the rest of the world is WRONG.

No worries, I get it.

@Bluewolf: just being honest. Sorry if you don't like it.

@LRM: keep being always right. You're my hero.

@Ribshaw: love your sarcasm. Hope it serves you well.

Regarding Dillard (off topic but LRM opened the door--yet again), I COULD care less how you all feel. Again, apparently, the word "redemption" is not in your collective vocabulary.

How sad.

Ciao.

Mark
I look and post in a number of forums and am able to share my opinion without the Admin jumping on every post adding nothing to the discussion such as LRM does in this forum. When you prove LRM wrong he calls it irrelevant nonsense and changes the topic. He must have the last word and he is never wrong. And you are right, his attitude drives a lot of people away from what should be an informative forum for those doing due diligence on potential home businesses.

[littleroundman]

And you are right, his attitude drives a lot of people away from what should be an informative forum for those doing due diligence on potential home businesses.

You know, quite recently we had someone on here demanding posters provided proof of statements they made and opinions they gave.

Can't think who it was just now.

Anyway, back on topic.

Just how many is " a lot" Ken, how do you know how many have been driven away and are they the type of people at whom the forum is targetted ??

[littleroundman]

I COULD care less how you all feel. Again, apparently, the word "redemption" is not in your collective vocabulary.



redemption/rɪˈdɛm(p)ʃ(ə)n/
noun


the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil.
the action of regaining or gaining possession of something in exchange for payment, or clearing a debt.



Given the fact Dillard is continuing on his merry way cheating and lying, he definitely hasn't been saved from error or evil and he DEFINITELY hasn't cleared the debt he incurred with all the victims of the fraud for which he was charged and convicted.

As to whether he regained possession of something at a pawn broker, I have no idea.