littleroundman
04-01-2011, 06:35 AM
It would be an excellent outcome if a condition such as depression could be reduced to such simple terms.
However, the devil is in the detail and the numbers tell the story.
Your own NIHM figures show that the 12 month prevalence within the adult population of the USA is running at 6.7%.
With the current population of the US sitting at 310+ MILLION, raw statistics alone tell us a single definitive conclusion being made about ANYTHING related to the illness will be inaccurate.
And that is without including the rate of depression among children, differences in the illness between the sexes, varying ethnic, age and socio-economic groups or countries.
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/statistics/images/NCS-R_MDD-Chart1-360.jpg
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/statistics/images/NCS-R_MDD-Chart2-360.jpg
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/statistics/images/NCS-R_MDD-Chart4-720.jpg
1 Kessler RC, Chiu WT, Demler O, Walters EE. Prevalence, severity, and comorbidity of twelve-month DSM-IV disorders in the National Comorbidity Survey Replication (NCS-R). Archives of General Psychiatry, 2005 Jun;62(6):617-27.
2 Ibid
3 Kessler RC, Berglund PA, Demler O, Jin R, Walters EE. Lifetime prevalence and age-of-onset distributions of DSM-IV disorders in the National Comorbidity Survey Replication (NCS-R). Archives of General Psychiatry. 2005 Jun;62(6):593-602.
4 Ibid
5 Ibid
6 Wang PS, Lane M, Olfson M, Pincus HA, Wells KB, Kessler RC. Twelve month use of mental health services in the United States. Archives of General Psychiatry. 2005 Jun;62(6):629-640.
Given the scope of the problem within the US alone, 6.7% of a 2011 estimated population of 311,081,000, how likely is a single MD or a group of people on an internet forum will be able to make anything but an anecdotal observation ???
littleroundman
04-01-2011, 06:35 AM
Here's Wikipedias' list of famous people with major depressive disorder.
Might I respectfully suggest the likelihood of finding a common denominator WRT causation, severity and/or potentially effective treatment is non existent.
List of people with major depressive disorder
A
Caroline Aherne, British Comedian[1]
Buzz Aldrin, American astronaut, the second man to set foot on the moon[2]
Woody Allen, American film director[3][4]
Claus von Amsberg, German diplomat and husband of Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands[5]
Hans Christian Andersen, Danish writer[6]
Hideaki Anno, Japanese animator and film director[7]
Malcolm Arnold, British composer[8]
Richard Ashcroft, English singer-songwriter[9]
Machado de Assis, Brazilian writer[10]
B
David Banner, American hip hop artist[11]
Parveen Babi, Bollywood actress.[12]
Maria Bamford, Comedienne and voice-over actress[13]
Charles Baudelaire, French poet[14]
Ingmar Bergman, Swedish film director[15]
William Blake, British poet and painter[16]
Kjell Magne Bondevik, Norwegian politician and former Prime Minister of Norway[17]
David Bohm, British quantum physicist[18]
Terry Bradshaw, American football player[19], Football Analyst, Sports Anchor
Art Buchwald, American humorist[20]
Joe Budden, American hip hop artist[21]
Robert Burton British academic (author of The Anatomy of Melancholy)[22]
C
Anthony Callea, Australian pop singer[23]
Drew Carey, American comedian and actor[24]
Jim Carrey, Canadian actor and comedian[25]
Dick Cavett, American talk show host[26]
Melanie Chisholm, English pop singer-songwriter[27]
Raymond Chandler, writer of detective fiction[28]
Iris Chang, Chinese American writer and historian[29]
David Chase, American television writer, television director and television producer (The Rockford Files, Northern Exposure, The Sopranos)[30]
Lawton Chiles, American politician[17]
Agatha Christie, English crime writer[31]
Winston Churchill, British Prime Minister [32]
Kurt Cobain, American singer-songwriter and guitarist (Nirvana)[33]
Catherine Cookson, English author[34]
Leonard Cohen, Canadian songwriter[35]
Joseph Conrad, Polish writer[36]
Calvin Coolidge, 30th President of the United States.[37]
Billy Corgan, American musician (The Smashing Pumpkins)[38]
Rivers Cuomo, American musician (Weezer)[39]
Ian Curtis, British musician, leader of Joy Division[40]
D
Roméo Dallaire, Canadian general, senator and humanitarian[41]
Rodney Dangerfield, American comedian and actor[42]
Edgar Degas, French painter[43]
John Denver, American musician[44]
Charles Dickens, British writer[16]
Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Russian writer [45]
Nick Drake, British musician[46]
Doug Duncan, American politician, candidate for the Democratic nomination for Governor of Maryland in the 2006 elections[17]
Patty Duke, American actress[47]
Kirsten Dunst, American actress[48]
E
Thomas Eagleton, American senator[49]
T. S. Eliot, American poet[50]
James Ellroy, American crime writer[51]
Eminem, American Rapper[52]
Robert Enke, German footballer [53]
Marcus Epstein, American paleoconservative political activist and commentator[54]
F
William Faulkner, American author[55]
Paul Feyerabend, Austrian philosopher of science[56]
Harrison Ford, American actor[57]
Michel Foucault, French philosopher[58]
Nelly Furtado, Canadian musician[59]
John Frusciante, American musician[60]
G
Geoff Gallop, Australian politician[61]
Romain Gary, French-Lithuanian-Polish novelist and diplomat[62]
Paul Gauguin, French painter[63]
Carlo Gesualdo, Italian composer, after murdering his wife, her lover, and his own son[64]
Paul Getty, British philanthropist[65]
Vincent van Gogh, Dutch painter[16]
Francisco de Goya, Spanish painter[66]
Spalding Gray, American actor and writer[67]
Graham Greene, British writer[68]
Zack Greinke, American MLB pitcher[69]
Eddie Griffin, American NBA Player[70]
H
Jon Hamm, American actor[71]
Tony Hancock, English actor and comedian[72]
Andrew Hansen, Australian comedian (part of The Chaser team)[73]
Elizabeth Hartman, American actress[74]
Anne Hathaway, American actress[75]
Friedrich August Hayek, Austrian economist[76]
Ernest Hemingway, American writer[16]
Margaux Hemingway, American actress; granddaughter of Ernest Hemingway[77]
John Hinckley, Jr., American would-be assassin of Ronald Reagan[78]
Sir Julian Huxley, British biologist, author and administrator[79]
Geoffrey Hill, English poet[80]
Herbert Hart, British philosopher[81]
Michael Hutchence, Australian singer–songwriter[82]
I
Natalie Imbruglia, Australian singer-songwriter, actress and model.[83]
Jack Irons, American musician, drummer for the bands Eleven, Pearl Jam, and Red Hot Chili Peppers[84]
J
Janet Jackson, American singer[85]
Henry James, British writer[86]
William James, American philosopher and psychologist[87]
Billy Joel, American musician[88]
Daniel Johns, Australian musician[89]
Samuel Johnson, British lexicographer, biographer, essayist and poet[90]
Ashley Judd, American actor[91]
Jung Da Bin, Korean actress[92]
K
Sarah Kane, British playwright[93]
Hamid Karzai, Afghan President [94]
Susanna Kaysen, American writer[95]
John Keats, British poet [96]
Marian Keyes, Irish writer[97]
Kool Keith, American hip hop artist[98]
Sřren Kierkegaard, Danish philosopher[99]
Ernst Ludwig Kirchner, German painter[100]
John Kirwan, New Zealand rugby player, former All Black, currently coach of Japan national rugby team.[101]
Beyoncé Knowles, American singer-songwriter[102]
Joey Kramer, American musician (Aerosmith)[103]
Akira Kurosawa, Japanese film director[104]
L
Alan Ladd, American actor[105]
Hugh Laurie, British actor[106]
Denis Lawson, British actor[107]
Heath Ledger, Australian actor[108]
John Lennon, British musician
Neil Lennon, Northern Irish footballer[109]
David Letterman, American television presenter[110]
Meriwether Lewis, American Explorer[111]
Abraham Lincoln, American lawyer and politician, 16th President of the United States[112]
Oscar Lopez, Chilean-Canadian folk guitarist[113]
Federico García Lorca, Spanish poet[114]
Martin Luther, German priest and theologian[115]
M
Paul Merton, English comedian[116]
Gustav Mahler, German composer[117]
Henri Matisse, French painter[118]
Vladimir Mayakovsky, Russian writer and poet[119]
Brian May, British guitarist[120]
Guy de Maupassant, French writer[121]
Ewan McGregor, Scottish actor[122]
Herman Melville, American writer[123]
Charlotte Mew, British poet[124]
Michelangelo, Italian painter and sculptor[125]
John Stuart Mill, British political philosopher[126]
Spike Milligan, Irish comedian and writer[127]
Joan Miró, Spanish painter[128]
Morrissey, British singer and former frontman of The Smiths[129]
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Austrian composer [96]
N
Isaac Newton, British physicist[130]
Friedrich Nietzsche, German philosopher[16]
O
Conan O'Brien, American comedian and television presenter[131]
Bill Oddie, British comedy performer and naturalist[132]
Eugene O'Neill, American playwright[133]
Robert Oppenheimer, American physicist ('father of the atomic bomb')[134]
Patton Oswalt, American comedian and actor[135]
Marie Osmond, American musician[136]
Ronnie O'Sullivan, English snooker player[137]
P
Gwyneth Paltrow, American actress[138]
Henri Paul, French chauffeur (driver during the car crash that killed Diana, Princess of Wales)[139]
Ryan Phillippe, American actor[140]
T. Boone Pickens, Jr., American oil tycoon[141]
János Pilinszky, Hungarian poet [142]
Sylvia Plath, American writer[16]
Edgar Allan Poe, American poet and writer[16] (speculated)
Bill Pulsipher, American baseball player [143]
Jackson Pollock, American painter[144]
Charley Pride, American country music singer.[145]
R
Sergei Rachmaninoff, Russian composer and pianist [146]
Charlotte Rampling, English actress[147]
Trent Reznor, American musician[148]
Anne Rice, American writer[149]
Rainer Maria Rilke, Austrian poet[150]
John D. Rockefeller, American industrialist[151]
Mark Rothko, American painter[152]
Hans Rott, Austrian composer[153]
J. K. Rowling, British writer[154][155]
S
Jim Salinger, New Zealand climate change scientist[156]
Siegfried Sassoon, British poet and soldier[157]
Robert Schumann, German composer[158]
Jean Seberg, American actress[159]
Brian Sewell, English art critic[160]
Will Self, English novelist, reviewer and columnist[161]
Anne Sexton, American poet[162]
Brooke Shields, American actress[163]
Sarah Silverman, American comedian[164]
Elliott Smith, American musician[165]
Britney Spears, American pop singer[166]
Layne Staley, American musician.[167]
Vivian Stanshall, British humourist and musician (Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band)[168]
Rod Steiger, American actor[169]
William Styron, writer[170]
T
Amy Tan, American writer[171]
Catherine Tate, English comedienne and actress[172]
James Taylor, American singer-songwriter[173]
Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, Russian composer[174]
Leo Tolstoy, Russian writer[175]
Georg Trakl, Austrian poet[176]
Lars Von Trier, Danish film director[177]
Mark Twain, American writer[16]
Jeff Tweedy, American musician (Wilco)[178]
V
Ville Valo - Finnish singer (HIM)[179]
Ned Vizzini - American writer[180]
Kurt Vonnegut - American author[181]
Joey Votto - Canadian baseball player[182]
W
David Foster Wallace, American writer[183]
Mike Wallace, American journalist on 60 Minutes[184]
Evelyn Waugh, British novelist and journalist[185]
Denise Welch, English actress and television presenter[186]
Billy West, American voice artist[187]
Delonte West, American basketball player[188]
Dan White, American killer of Harvey Milk and George Moscone[189]
Walt Whitman, American poet[190]
Kevin Whitrick, British electrical engineer[191]
Robbie Williams, British pop singer[192]
Tennessee Williams, American playwright[193]
William Carlos Williams, American poet[194]
Brian Wilson, American musician (Beach Boys)[195]
Owen Wilson, American comedian and actor[196]
Gregory Wilton, Australian politician[197]
Hugo Wolf, Austrian composer[198]
Lewis Wolpert, British developmental biologist, author and broadcaster[199]
Virginia Woolf, Adeline Virginia Stephen, British novelist (1882–1941)[200]
Elizabeth Wurtzel, American writer[201]
Y
Thom Yorke, English musician, lead singer of Radiohead [202]
Z
littleroundman
04-01-2011, 11:21 PM
"90% efficacy for Hypnosis is a wonderful stat, better than most immunisations, yet you seem dismissive of it? Should we equally dismiss anything with less than 100% efficacy? Admittedly there is room for improvement and reasearch is ongoing to improve both therapy outcomes"
I have no idea what form of medicine is practiced in the "ED" in which you claim to work, but, if it consists of delivering generalized treatments along the lines of your contention that "hypnosis" is good", then I pity your patients.
"90% efficacy for Hypnosis is a wonderful stat" is NOT a stat, it's a made up and obviously ridiculous analogy in response to your non specific contention
IF, and I specify "IF" we were discussing the use of hypnosis and/or CBT in treating a specific condition with a quantifiable number of subjects, THEN we might have the basis for some sort of rational discourse.
However, discussing conditions in which there are possible catastrophic outcomes of either misdiagnosis or inappropriate treatment i.e.anxiety and/or panic attacks, alcohol and/or substance abuse or "depression" (if there can be a singular condition called "depression") , there is no room for generalization.
You can continue to generalize and post as many links to as many "studies" as you like, hypnosis as a first line treatment delivered in non secure, as in, "not closely monitored" circumstances to certain "types" of clients with certain conditions is not only liable to be ineffective, but is, in fact, contraindicated.
"Seem dismissive" ????
I am in no way "dismissive" in SOME circumstances for SOME patents with SOME conditions by SOME practitioners.
In other circumstances SOME circumstances for SOME patents with SOME conditions by SOME practitioners, anyone in the position to do so who prescribes hypnosis and/or CBT should have their ass kicked until their nose bleeds.
What I AM, however, is very careful to not present broad generalizations WRT the efficacy or, indeed, the desirability of a particular form of treatment or therapy to an unknown audience and I DEFINITELY never hint, suggest or allude to having any connection to ANY recognized field of medicine without a full and frank disclosure IOW, I simply don't do it.
With the greatest respect, using terms such as "working in an ED" or "having connections with an ED" or "in our ED" on a forum dealing primarily with fraud and fraudsters is likely to gain you the same response as waving a red rag in front of a bull.
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