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View Full Version : Saul Kaye a History of Ponzi and Pyramid Scams



ribshaw
11-10-2017, 07:12 PM
Sometimes between the larger scams I get bored and like to check back on people who heavily promoted now collapsed Ponzis in hope they learned their lesson. Sadly some get the bug of being a commission whore and continue to lead people into one shitty opportunity after the next.

"Building Systems" ah yes such business-E sounding advice. Except if Saul Kaye could build systems he wouldn't be jumping from scam to scam now would he?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z99H2zEM_yg

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Here's the other thing, Kiyosaki long ago has proven to be a charlatan who made up Rich Dad. He failed at MLM, the very "system" he pitches as manna from heaven. He sells questionable advice to hopeful idiots, if you can stomach ripping people off that is probably the way to go.

Robert Kiyosaki Is A Scam? Yes He Is In My Opinion. - Ethan Vanderbuilt (http://ethanvanderbuilt.com/2014/01/20/robert-kiyosaki-scam-artist-yes-opinion/)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/helaineolen/2012/10/10/rich-dad-poor-dad-bankrupt-dad/#5255bde6633a

https://johntreed.com/blogs/john-t-reed-s-real-estate-investment-blog/61651011-john-t-reeds-analysis-of-robert-t-kiyosakis-book-rich-dad-poor-dad-part-1

https://toughnickel.com/personal-finance/Robert-Kiyosaki-May-Not-Be-the-Financial-Genius-You-Think-He-Is

http://www.realscam.com/f11/robert-kiyosaki-rich-dad-secrets-109/

http://www.realscam.com/f37/author-rich-dad-poor-dad-files-bankruptcy-1667/

http://www.realscam.com/f34/stupid-theories-robert-kiyosaki-643/

Taking business advice from someone quoting Kiyosaki is as sound as taking journalism from someone quoting Peter Parker.

ribshaw
11-10-2017, 07:36 PM
Kaye first came to my attention during the now failed http://www.realscam.com/f9/my-advertising-pays-advert-platform-scam-ponzi-3439/index140.html#post88913. Let me start by saying unless you have been sniffing glue since age six it was pretty obvious MAP was Ponzi scam. I tried to tell Saul as much in his You-Tube videos. He did what all Ponzi Pimps do, deleted my messages.

Now imagine, you're an honest business person that is informed you are promoting a scam that will end up costing people millions. Do you:

A. Keep it up?
B. Investigate to make certain people are not being ripped off while you break the law?

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https://taratalkstoday.blogspot.com/p/my-advertising-pays-scam.html

My Advertising Pays promised to pay just for clicking on online ads - now it's not paying at all - Andrew Penman - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/advertising-pays-promised-pay-just-8986814)

My Advertising Pays Scam Funds Frozen - Ethan Vanderbuilt (http://ethanvanderbuilt.com/2016/09/17/my-advertising-pays-scam-funds-frozen/)

MyAdvertisingPays Review: $49.99 Ponzi investment scheme (http://behindmlm.com/companies/myadvertisingpays-review-49-99-ponzi-investment-scheme/)

https://www.youtube.com/user/saulkayemusic/videos Picked A.

ribshaw
11-10-2017, 08:08 PM
My Advertising Pays pulled out of the US market, you know the largest consumer market in the world. Now anyone that hasn't lost too many brain cells being choked out with breath play might ask why on earth they did this. This of course was a precursor to the alleged theft of $60M from a payment processor. Scam aficionados might want to refresh their memories on the term "Blow Off" https://scams.wikispaces.com/Glossary .

Saul didn't miss a beat in picking up where the last scam left off.

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http://www.realscam.com/f8/empower-network-1659/index11.html#post115042 The video from Rabbit Woman sums it up, although all the signs were there long before the epic meltdown. I'm all for people earning a commission to the extent they add value, the now defunct Empower not so much.

http://www.realscam.com/f8/traffic-monsoon-better-than-maps-trusted-admin-charles-scoville-4070/ was the other scam Kaye joined after MAP. Other than one mop jockey at a Texas bakery, everyone with basic math skills knew TM was a Ponzi. The same Ponzi as MAP in fact.

SEC shutdown of Traffic Monsoon: The Facts (http://behindmlm.com/companies/sec-shutdown-of-traffic-monsoon-the-facts/)

SEC Halts $207 Million Internet-Based Ponzi Scheme
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2016/lr23604.htm

Ok so you've screwed people that followed you over in two Ponzi scams, what better to do than hold your kid and get involved in a third identical scam.

ribshaw
11-10-2017, 08:19 PM
Somebody needs to return his #1 Dad coffee mug. This kid is no different a prop than any conman would use.

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I digress, let's say you f^cked people over in two Ponzi scams what to do? Well join a third of course. Now I'll interject at this point that unless you have a family tree that is literally a tree it was painfully obvious My Paying Ads was the same scam as MAP and TM.

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My Paying Ads Scam? Yes It Is In My Opinion! - Ethan Vanderbuilt (http://ethanvanderbuilt.com/2016/01/06/my-paying-ads-scam-yes-opinion/)

My Paying Ads Scam Collapses Again - Ethan Vanderbuilt (http://ethanvanderbuilt.com/2017/05/19/my-paying-ads-scam-collapses-again/)

Can you really build an business from home? Not with the crap Saul Kaye is peddling, unless of course you want to pimp your kids and steal from other families. Even if you don't mind the latter two, math is strongly against you.

littleroundman
11-10-2017, 08:34 PM
Presenting for your enjoyment, the man himself, doing the old "legitimizing pyramid schemes by referring to them as legitimate MLM" bait-and-switch trick


Multilevel Marketing

Tags: FTC MLM / pyramid scheme (https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/multilevel-marketing) how to tell the difference

There are multi-level marketing plans – and then there are pyramid schemes. Before signing on the dotted line, study the company’s track record, ask lots of questions, and seek out independent opinions about the business.




https://vimeo.com/242330654

Interesting to note, Sauls' tee shirt exposes another collapsed scheme he promotes, W(o)rld Network and it's nonsensical "Helo" overpriced and underperforming fitness band

http://imageshack.com/a/img924/1914/HguT9c.png

ribshaw
11-10-2017, 08:58 PM
OK you're saying Ribshaw anyone could have made a mistake three times with the identical scam. Sure those losses came from other parents who can't hold their kids because they are now working second shifts. So what Saul Kaye rocks an elf hat like a boss.

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How about the Muliti Stream Funnel that sounds totally legit. Only adding the word Millionaire would have given it any more credibility. Nevertheless, the "Koscott" test determines what constitutes a Pyramid Scam not haberdashery.

(1) Payment of money to the company;
(2) The participant receives the right to sell a product (or service);
(3) The participant receives compensation for recruiting others into the program;
(4) The compensation is unrelated to the sale of products (or services) to the ultimate user.

A (MLM) Skeptic: MLM Dictionary: Koscot Test (http://amlmskeptic.blogspot.com/2014/01/mlm-dictionary-koscot-test.html)

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Multi Stream Funnel Review: $20 a pop pyramid gifting (http://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/multi-stream-funnel-review-20-a-pop-pyramid-gifting/)

ribshaw
11-10-2017, 09:20 PM
So you're thinking this guy is a genius, how can I get a hold of him so I can harvest some theft losses before tax season? Or maybe you want a Ponzi Pimp crooning at your kids sweet sixteen?

https://www.saulkaye.com/contact

COOL WATER RECORDS
P.O. BOX 460665. San Francisco, Ca 94146.
LABEL/OFFICE Voice mail (877) 563-8889
cell (510) 508-3657.
FAX 510-373-2200

Maybe you simply want to discuss why the haters got it so right about Beonpush while he continues to hold himself out as some fashion of money expert?

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http://www.realscam.com/f8/beonpush-4494/

BeOnPush Review: $20-$10,000 investment pack Ponzi (http://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/beonpush-review-20-10000-investment-pack-ponzi/)

BeOnPush Scam? Yes It Is In My Opinion! - Ethan Vanderbuilt (http://ethanvanderbuilt.com/2016/04/18/beonpush-scam-yes-opinion/)

BeOnPush Account Fraud And BeOnTel - Ethan Vanderbuilt (http://ethanvanderbuilt.com/2016/06/29/beonpush-fraud-beontel/)

ribshaw
11-10-2017, 10:07 PM
At this point I have a confession to make, I have been playing a little drinking game with this thread. One post = drink one beer. With LRM's unwitting help I am now 7 beers into a 6 pack, so I decided to switch to coffee. I would say sadly my coffee was made with non-alkaline water, well I would say that if the claims about changing your body's PH weren't bullshit.

Science people, wake the F up. Sorry that's my low PH speaking.

"No, Drinking Alkaline Water Will Not Treat Or Prevent Cancer"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/01/09/no-drinking-alkaline-water-will-not-treat-or-prevent-cancer/#2bb80ef22abb


If Saul doesn't delete or block this video I encourage you to write 11 minutes off your life and watch. As with the above, there are some laws being broken. People giving you advice and collecting a commission should be well versed on the law, probably more so than a garden variety low PH hater.

Sadly...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJng8PJjSpg

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First of all, My Advertising Pays and Traffic Monsoon were scams and the inevitable, not the bullshit Kaye claims.

Second, "results not typical" is meaningless scammer speak. Here is the actual guidance from the FTC on work from home opportunities. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/selling-work-home-or-other-business-opportunity-revised-rule

Third making unsubstantiated biologically impossible health claims is illegal. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/advertising-and-marketing/health-claims

Fourth and this is important since if you repeat the kind of garbage Kaye is spewing you are breaking the law:

"Kangen Distributors promise that their $4,000+ machine will extend life, cure cancer and at least 50 other ailments, and make the participant rich beyond their wildest imaginings (insert picture of big house, yacht and expensive sports car here). The company itself would never make such claims because they would be sued into non-existence. These “independent businesspeople”/distributors/network marketing consultants cite “miracle cure testimonials” by the dozens, yet credible research and formal case studies are of course predictably absent and lacking. Enagic Kangen Water Scam? Yes It Is In My Opinion! - Ethan Vanderbuilt (http://ethanvanderbuilt.com/2017/02/06/enagic-kangen-water-scam-yes-opinion/)

Despite claiming to have made it to 4 in the company Saul appears to have moved on. Another failed system once recruiting dried up?

ribshaw
11-10-2017, 10:40 PM
I like to use the word retarded, but try not to because some people deem it offensive. I'll make an exception and declare if you think something called "National Wealth Center" is anything other than a scam you're retarded. Seriously, don't make any decisions with your money until a court appoints a guardian.

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National Wealth Center Review: Infinity 100 gifting reboot (http://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/national-wealth-center-review-infinity-100-gifting-reboot/)

National Wealth Center Scam? Yes It Is In My Opinion! - Ethan Vanderbuilt (http://ethanvanderbuilt.com/2015/08/31/national-wealth-center-scam-yes-opinion/)

http://www.realscam.com/f42/cash-gifting-law-u-s-state-state-2052/

One common refrain from the peddlers of dreck is Ethan and OZ call everything scams. Another being they have advertising on their sites. So what? Kaye and the other "internet marketers" who peddle fluff have consistently been wrong, while Oz and Ethan nail it every time. Kaye has violated securities laws, committed wire fraud, and willfully ignores the laws on business opportunity disclosure. More importantly, how are his "systems" working?

littleroundman
11-10-2017, 10:54 PM
But, but, but, Saul.

You left out the bit about how you knew the product doesn't work as promised, but you made better money from recruiting more victims, so you don't care


https://vimeo.com/242338526
http://imageshack.com/a/img924/1484/P7LHs4.png

Fortunately, it seems most people woke up pretty quick to the fact both you and Enagic are a waste of time.

http://imageshack.com/a/img924/3789/uxjd1i.png

ribshaw
11-10-2017, 11:07 PM
"DUPLICATION" that sounds as business-esque as "systems" and "passive income", sadly it's more bullshit vernacular from all to many purveyors of entrepreneurial wet dreams.

Saul Kaye claims to have become a diamond by signing up 54 people with a team of over 1000 in Skinny Body Care. Since it looks like he has once again taken his ball and gone home what happened?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZhc8rsZ1Qg

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Skinny Body Care Review v2.0 (http://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/skinny-body-care-review-v2-0/)

https://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/skinny-body-care-scammed-c630172.html

https://www.dietpillswatchdog.com/skinny-fiber/

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/media-resources/truth-advertising/health-claims


The big lie with MLM is you work hard for 2-5 years then stroll the beaches while cashing checks from your downline. Yeah that's not how it works, this is how it works...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-hogR9V5G8


http://www.realscam.com/f21/case-law-mlm-recruiting-scams-2848/

littleroundman
11-10-2017, 11:27 PM
Saul Kaye claims to have become a diamond by signing up 54 people with a team of over 1000 in Skinny Body Care. Since it looks like he has once again taken his ball and gone home what happened?

That was a rhetorical question - right ???

http://imageshack.com/a/img922/2374/KyQqnJ.png

ribshaw
11-10-2017, 11:33 PM
Presenting for your enjoyment, the man himself, doing the old "legitimizing pyramid schemes by referring to them as legitimate MLM" bait-and-switch trick




https://vimeo.com/242330654

Interesting to note, Sauls' tee shirt exposes another collapsed scheme he promotes, W(o)rld Network and it's nonsensical "Helo" overpriced and underperforming fitness band



Thanks LRM, this toy really got some negative press.





Helo??? Helo??? Is there any conscience in there?


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Wor(l)d International Review: Overpriced Helo fitness bands? (http://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/world-international-review-overpriced-helo-fitness-bands/)

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldglobalnetwork/

https://www.bbb.org/south-east-florida/business-reviews/information-technology-services/world-global-network-pte-ltd-in-miami-fl-90348887/reviews-and-complaints

Tech Thursday - Beware of HELO: A sketchy health monitoring bracelet | Opinion | corsicanadailysun.com (http://www.corsicanadailysun.com/opinion/tech-thursday---beware-of-helo-a-sketchy-health/article_f350d20c-61bf-11e7-a2de-a36764236a86.html)

https://www.wareable.com/fitness-trackers/helo-lx-band-multi-level-marketing-9876

ribshaw
11-10-2017, 11:50 PM
That was a rhetorical question - right ???

No way dude, until 3 minutes ago I thought this cat could make it rain for me and mine.


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I help people make money from home so they can spend more time w/ their family

https://www.facebook.com/saulkayebusinessonline

https://twitter.com/saulkayebusines

@saulkayebusines


World Income System (http://www.workwithsaul.info)

https://www.facebook.com/saul.kaye

littleroundman
11-11-2017, 12:41 AM
Thanks LRM, this toy really got some negative press.

Not that anyone needs any more proof of Saul Kays' impeccable record for pimping guaranteed-to-fail ponzi and pyramid schemes, check out who else was on board the HeloTrain:

http://imageshack.com/a/img923/3918/3X7Thx.png

Saul Kaye and Danny Turner aka Doede Khan, pimping the same scam, what a surprise

ribshaw
11-11-2017, 10:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FuZIbSWQhg

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Why do people quit your MLM Business??? They quit all tired of getting rich and paying too much in taxes so they slink back to their J.O.B.

Alternatively...

Recruiting MLM sucks, most people are keen to the scam and don't want to hear about extra income from people on balance losing it hand over fist. Recruits soon realize their friends and family were so very right.


1. It's not your business, have you read your IBO contract?

https://www.lazymanandmoney.com/why-mlm-is-not-a-business/

2. At a blindingly high rate approaching 99% they are losing money and find the products not worth the price for self consumption.

https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf

3. Did I mention 99% are losing money?

Myth of MLM Income Opportunity: 99% Lose Money in MLM – Pink Truth (http://www.pinktruth.com/mary-kay-facts/myth-of-mlm-income-opportunity-99-lose-money-in-mlm/)

4. Did I mention 99% are losing money?

http://www.realscam.com/f9/why-mlms-never-release-their-financial-statements-255/

5. Did I mention every MLM companies income disclosure looks something like this from Saul's latest and greatest.
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https://website.worldgn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/S1-2017-AveIncome-WGN-USA-and-Canada-rev3.pdf

That math will never change and of course those income disclosure figures are before time and expenses. What happens to "building systems" when virtually 100% of your recruits will leave within two years?
How long can you keep a team engaged when 99% realize they would be light years ahead working part time at McDonalds?

If MLM is such a great opportunity, why would Kaye even make a video like this?

littleroundman
11-11-2017, 11:07 PM
Saul describes what he does as "network marketing"

Implying he's selling something

But, what is he "marketing" ???

All I can find are get-rich-quick schemes, ponzi schemes, pyramid schemes and a combination of all three.

THAT is why people are quitting.

ribshaw
12-26-2017, 10:43 PM
5000 views somewhere, only 27 here. The best part of this video is around 6:10 when the sound cuts out. If you think you are going to work hard for 5-10 years in MLM as Kaye asserts and then live on passive income you're deluding yourself.

Ponder quitting MLM then cut your losses and quit. Your family would almost certainly be better off if you did just about anything else to earn extra money. Even if you win in MLM it will be largely on the backs of people that can't afford to lose. Soon you'll be making videos just like this while hoping to peel a few more dollars from your downline before the inevitable...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVY9sQ7haHU

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Truth: For almost everyone who invests MLM turns out to be a losing financial proposition. This is not an opinion, but a historical fact. Consider some notable examples from among the largest MLMs.

In the largest of all MLMs, Amway, only 1/2 of one percent of all distributors make it to the basic level of "direct" distributor, and the average income of all Amway distributors is about $40 a month. That is gross income before taxes and expenses. When costs are factored, it is obvious that nearly all suffer a loss. Making it to "direct", however, is not a ticket to profitability, but to greater losses. When the Wisconsin Attorney General filed charges against Amway, tax returns from all distributors in the state revealed an average net loss of $918 for that state's "direct" distributors.

Extraordinary sales and marketing obstacles account for much of this failure, but even if the business were more feasible, sheer mathematics would severely limit the opportunity. The MLM type of business structure can support only a small number of financial winners. If a 1,000-person downline is needed to earn a sustainable income, those 1,000 will need one million more to duplicate the success. How many people can realistically be enrolled? Much of what appears as growth is in fact only the continuous churning of new enrollees. The money for the rare winners comes from the constant enrollment of armies of losers.

The vast majority of the losers in MLM drop out within a year. In a 1999 court case brought against Melaleuca, one of the country's largest MLMs, the company claimed it has the highest "retention" rate among distributors in the entire MLM industry. Melaleuca boasted a drop-out rate is 5.5% per month. This equates to about 60% per year, if the dropouts are replaced each month.

In its annual report to the SEC, Pre-Paid Legal, another large MLM, revealed that more than 1/2 of all its customers and distributors quit each year and are replaced by another group of hopeful investors.

This pattern of 50-70% of all distributors quitting within one year holds true also for NuSkin, the industry's second largest MLM. NuSkin also exemplifies the accompanying pattern in which a tiny percent of the distributors gain the majority of all company rebates. In 1998, NuSkin paid out 2/3rds of its entire rebates to just 200 upliners out of more than 63,000 "active" distributors. The money they received came directly from the unprofitably investments of the 99.7% of the others.

In 1995, Excel Communications, another "fast growing" MLM, reported to regulators an 86% turnover rate of distributors and 48% drop-out rate among all customers.

To obscure their dismal numbers, some MLMs classify their distributors as "active" and "inactive." The Active group includes only recent participants and those still buying products or receiving rebates. Payout and retention statistics are then disclosed only on the "active" group.

If ALL distributors who participate are included the losses and the average incomes are exposed as much worse. And, if all the distributors who enroll and quit over several years are included, the odds of success for a new distributor/investor are shown to be absurdly low. Yet, these companies typically advertise their business as "an opportunity of a life time" with "unlimited potential."

https://www.falseprofits.com/MLM%20Lies.html

ribshaw
02-03-2018, 12:53 AM
O Kaye! If this device worked for something that might not even prove to be a problem, why is it being peddled on Youtube using a third party appeal to authority?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58q76-K3WZM

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Wor(l)d International Review: Overpriced Helo fitness bands? (http://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/world-international-review-overpriced-helo-fitness-bands/)

Global Mobile Network Review: VOIP & Power Units? (http://behindmlm.com/companies/global-mobile-network-review/)

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Health Claims

Companies must support their advertising claims with solid proof. This is especially true for businesses that market food, over-the-counter drugs, dietary supplements, contact lenses, and other health-related products.
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/advertising-and-marketing/health-claims

Advertising and Marketing Basics

Under the law, claims in advertisements must be truthful, cannot be deceptive or unfair, and must be evidence-based. For some specialized products or services, additional rules may apply.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/advertising-and-marketing/advertising-and-marketing-basics

wolfi
08-12-2018, 10:58 AM
Nobody is this stupid. We must only conclude that he is knowingly swindling unfortunate people into feeding the ponzi scheme piggy bank. There's no way that a sketchy MLM is beating established medical device companies to market with the prick-less glucose monitor. This could be potentially dangerous if someone is actually depending on this to monitor their glucose levels. Let's hope this one collapses very soon. Founders and distributors (down line hustlers) to jail!!!


Health Claims

Companies must support their advertising claims with solid proof. This is especially true for businesses that market food, over-the-counter drugs, dietary supplements, contact lenses, and other health-related products.
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/advertising-and-marketing/health-claims

Advertising and Marketing Basics

Under the law, claims in advertisements must be truthful, cannot be deceptive or unfair, and must be evidence-based. For some specialized products or services, additional rules may apply.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/advertising-and-marketing/advertising-and-marketing-basics[/QUOTE]

ribshaw
08-13-2018, 11:33 AM
Someone recently shared with me that Kaye's wife has a J.O.B. outside the home which makes videos like these all that more specious. How exactly does one help others to spend more time with their family when they apparently can't do it for their own?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrZKbZOyNAc


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LL_F1zAN9Q



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wolfi
03-01-2020, 10:29 AM
Hilarious sh.it:

When scammer find his own scam page and twists logic in knots to rationalize it for himself

Saul Kaye - Scams, scam sites , are you in a scam ??!?😳 (https://www.facebook.com/saulkayebusinessonline/videos/763582614015555/)

The guy is ku-ku crazy delusional. Peddling Melaleuca these days... SMH