True Vision Global - using religion!

[busttheblock]

This is a new scam involving Charles Andrade (scammer) and several other people unfamiliar to me. You need to listen to this video and especially after the 31 minute mark. Using God as the sales medium!!!!!!:duh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxrOOnyybgQ

[littleroundman]

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/1918/3aTwvY.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/4255/5S7OSl.jpg

Oh, sure.

Send money off to an unregistered charity which uses a HYIP ponzi fraud "matrix" to supposedly raise money.

Can we spell "Fraud" with a capital "F" ??

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/3194/oU4lKi.jpg

Lois McQuinns' lois-mcquinn (http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/lois-mcquinn/78/738/731) profile page on LinkedIn


END HUNGER MISSION (http://endhungermission.blogspot.com.au/)

Sunday, January 12, 2014

If you are a Missionary you need to watch this! (http://endhungermission.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/if-you-are-missionary-you-need-to-watch.html)

Rev. Mitchell McQuinn explains the PMebook funding program for missionaries and churches.

MyVideoWebShow (http://myvideowebshow.com/video/65037)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kuBlLvly1a0/UoUK61DV-uI/AAAAAAAAEIM/ZP5rmLqmQeQ/s1600/TEAM.JPG

T hey have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints.

1 Cor.16:1

What is the TEAM MISSION Christian Sponsorship Program?

The CSP is a funding program for Pastors, Missionaries, Ministries and Low Income Families - those on fixed incomes, disability, victims of typhoon or social welfare programs., through our personal ministry. Using the Penny Matrix business plan, by Tracy Davison, an individual or ministry is sponsored into the PMeBOOKbusiness. The business then begins to grow through the selling of memberships into the PMeBook Club either on auto pilot or through the sponsored individuals personal membership salesand over time the person sponsored slowly begins to grow a residual income.
Why use Penny Matrix and the PMeBook club?

For two main reasons, price and continued funding.

1) Price - For just $7.00 a month the individual can earn an income of $6553.00 when their personal matrix is filled. The matrix is filled through clients EBook membership sales both by the company and the individual (only if the individual desires to do so, the individual is not expected to make personal sales) if the individual choses to adds personal sales to the business their business will grow quicker, and the individual will earn a matching bonus of 100% on each membership sold.

2) Continued funding – many times in a ministry different types of funding are sought through such things as – direct solicitation, PIM’s, bake sales, bike-a-thons, chocolate bar sales, Avon drives, you name it; and yes, they are fun but they are a onetime donation. They serve as an addition to regular giving and they tax the saints as the money always comes from the same source, the saint’s pockets.
Using the PMeBooks as a home based business for an additional income source, the individual makes a one time commitment of $7.00 a month and is then paid monthly; giving a continuous income from an outside source.

What can the Christian Sponsorship Program be used for?

Since the income derived is a business income it can be used as:

1) An added income source for a Pastor, Missionary, Evangelist, or low income family.

2) It can be used to increase the business income for long term funding needs of Orphanages, Churches, Church schools, Charitable programs, or Community projects, anywhere traditional funding methods are used.
What are the additional benefits of using PMeBooks as a additional income source?
The benefits are many:

1) Since the income is a business income- expenses against the business can be claimed lowering the tax burden on many families.

2) Since the client is purchasing a product from PMeBooks,no additional bookwork is required by the individual or group and no charitable receipt is issued again cutting down on bookkeeping expenses.

3) Through PMebooks the individual can download 11 Free eBooks in their first month and 1 Free eBook every month afterward.

4) Through PmEbooks you can also publish your own eBooks, manuals and sermons at no extra cost, just your regular membership of $7.00 per month.

5) You can also advertise for your business, church or ministry by writing a review about your business and publishing it to the PMeBook site the eBook can include up to three hyperlinks within it, sending traffic back to your webpage. Pmebooks is projecting a North American market of 35,000,000 and worldwide of 200,000,000 in the coming years

6) As you are offering both a superior product and a home-based business with residual income many are quick to purchase theirmembership therefore growing your business quicker.

7) The company PMeBooks make available recruits who will help to fill the matrix through their sister company Pinoy Recruiters.

8) The company is based on a 2x14 matrix system which allows for incredible spill over which will eventually fill the matrix.
How does the program work?

1) To Sponsor an Individual

Make sure you are part of the Team Mission matrix, if you are not already a part of Team Mission purchase your own membership first under this url.Pennymatrix (http://pennymatrix.com/WorkingdDream.)
Do I have to sign up under team Mission if I already have my own matrix?

NOTE NEW POLICY CHANGE: When we first began Team Mission the answer to this question was no, but after about a week or so into the project we began noticing a disturbing tread- those missionaries sponsored under Team Mission were doing much better than those in random matrixes, but Team Mission was all one sided and some missionaries were left in the cold. So for the sake of fairness to all and to continue to help the Missionaries reach the place where their matrixes are paying for themselves in the 2 month allotted time frame.

The answer to this question is now YES.
You create a new account under Team Mission and then place your sponsored Missionaries under your new account to receive your matching bonuses; by doing this you will be supporting missionaries who are above you in the matrix and below you and we fill the matrix from left to right and all are cared for equally, therefore multiplying your giving.

Luke 6:38
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over,…

Then go to this site and sign up for sponsors, please remember to add the number of individuals you would like to sponsor: The Christian Sponsorship Program (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1_nQrT4DJwQYYmjseus0DYGeZk8T726f7ofZtSIZcqcw/viewform)

Check with your up line to see if there are any sponsorship incentives for your team.

Once you are registered in the system then when individuals become available, you will be contacted by email with your instructions, names and email addresses, you then sponsor them into the team Mission Matrix under your own name. Sponsorship continues 1- 2 months or until the sponsor receives $10.00 from the company. At no time can your sponsored individual see your personal credit card information.

Once you have entered your sponsor into the matrix you send back the username and password you created for your sponsor to your up line or to me directly at loismcquinn@gmail.com (loismcquinn@gmail.com)

2) How can I apply for Sponsorship

Just sign up at the link below and you will be contacted as soon as you are signed into the program with your url, username and password. You then proceed to the site and complete your sign up with your address and personal information. As soon as you are receiving $10.00 ( one to two months) from the company change the payment method in your back office and begin paying for your personal membership. You now have your own businesses and your income will continue to grow over the next months.
The Christian Sponsorship Program (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1_nQrT4DJwQYYmjseus0DYGeZk8T726f7ofZtSIZcqcw/viewform)

If you have any questions about the program please don’t hesitate to contact us through email.
The Lord’s richest blessings,

End Hunger Mission blogspot (http://endhungermission.blogspot.com.au/2014_01_01_archive.html)

How did the "End Hunger Mission" go, Lois ??

[busttheblock]

Who who wants to puke??????:pou:

Read this crap from none other than David Sherman! I want these criminals behind bars!

>>> Pre-Launch Invitation of MASSIVE GLOBAL HUMANITARIAN EFFORT

Hello Brothers and Sisters in Christ, You are called to be Leaders!

This is an Invitation to all Church, Mission, Charitable and Other Christian Leaders

How To Turn $10 into $6000
OR
$30 Into $30,000 Each and EVERY Month!

Attention all interested in Fund Raising, whether for yourself, Church,
profit or non profit organizations... you need prepare for the Launch of
the most MASSIVE GLOBAL HUMANITARIAN EFFORT EVER!

The Boy Scouts of America and Girl Scouts of America just joined.

Launch date is scheduled for September 15th 2014 and YOU are now
invited to learn about this company...its MISSION...its VISION and
why you want to be a part of this!

More Importantly you want to know why you need to position yourself
or your Organization as a VIP member!

The following Video gives you Insight into what's all about. You have one of two
Steps to following AFTER viewing the videos...

1. You can simply email me asking to be added to the list so as to receive the
sign up link on September 15th!

2. You can email me if you wish to join as a VIP before all 1000 VIP positions are filled.

We strongly advise you to view the Videos Below...then ACT accordingly!

This is earmarked to be a MAJOR International success, with or without you...
Be sure to position yourself with one of the fastest moving teams in the company
and comfortably acquire your share in the wealth!

1.Here is the Team and Compensation plan:
TVG Connect Comp Plan & Team Build - YouTube (http://youtu.be/T3d2hTFQdzY)

(I recommend you watch the entire video,
but if too long for you, watch from the 20th minute)


​2. ​ Official TVG-Connect Presentation 2.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxrOOnyybgQ


1. To be placed on our list...You MUST put the statement
"COUNT ME IN THE EFFORT" in the Subject Line and
Send it to Lhnsystems@gmail.com.

2. To Join as a VIP... You MUST put the statement
"READY WITH $99 TO JOIN AT VIP" in the Subject Line.
NOTE: You may join now as a VIP and put your Sponsor under Other as David Sherman The subscription will not
start until launch. We can also name the Organization we want to represent later.

3. You can also go to tvgpre-registration (http://tvgpreregistration.com) and register today for free. When it asks how you heard about TVG
check the OTHER box and type in my name: David Sherman. Reply back to me after you register for free so I can keep
you updated with launch details. I came in at the VIP level and will also be at the $30. Upgrade for Charity.

4. If you come in as a VIP let me know and I will call Charles so you get priority placement directly to me in the top or the matrix. We are placing leaders now. I am looking for ten VIPs who will also upgrade to the $30 Charity level and try for 10 Leaders also. I have Charles phone number so I can lock in your leaders under you also.

SPECIAL NOTE: I am working on my own company with a corporate giant in the leisure rewards industry that provides corporations with all their perks for the employees. The wonderful thing is that I was interviewed and Sean wants me to be Master Distributor for the new internet division. Praise the Lord! I am very hopeful because I know God is in the center of this venture and it will be a blessing to all my friends and associates. Please keep me up in prayer and thanks for your loyalty over the years. This may be a benefit of True Vision Global too as I am going to be speaking with Charles Androd today or Monday.

To Our Amazing Success, Enjoy The Weekend!

David M Sherman
Abundant Profit Club News (http://www.abundantprofitclub.com)

75,000 FREE CREDITS ON MY TRAFFIC EXCHANGE
CLICK HERE

The Dove Bible Study
www.abundantprofitclub.com/DBS

586-336-4165 9 - 7 PM EST

[busttheblock]

Now Ken Russo is pimping this scam! I hate this guy!

[surfer]

The Boy Scouts of America and Girl Scouts of America just joined.
One has to wonder whether or not the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are aware that they allegedly joined this scam.

:pao:

Just in case anyone wants to inform them:

http://www.girlscouts.org/contact/email.asp
http://scoutingnewsroom.org/contact/

[digitalincome]

Hello - Tim Judd Here - I'm new here as I was recently sent the link by a friend interested in TVG - so I thought I'd take a minute to reply. I realize that some people consider anything that involves networking or any form of promotion outside the traditional corporate ad spending and especially if those promoting are compensated for their efforts must be some type of scam so I won't waste time challenging the ignorance in their flawed logic.

I'll just address some of the questions involving True Vision Global to the best of my ability. The first thing I wanted to point out is that it is not a non-profit, or not-for-profit program but a membership funded program that is at it core structured to benefit churches, charities, orphanages, and other worthy causes while also providing them a means for residual funding as opposed to occasional sales or asking for donations. The program is also designed to allow for sponsorship of causes that will not be participating in the program but will receive funding by those that sponsor the cause.

An example of this is that I was invited by a friend with a son that has a relatively rate illness that gets less research and funding grants than more common ones and for her creating more visibility is important - and my goals are both to help others create income, and like any marketing program to also to be able to do more with the projects and causes that I care about.

The reception to the program is so far nothing less than incredible - and even if others don't agree you can design something that is humanitarian in it's goals while still providing a means to fund the growth and to benefit others - Just because you haven't done it - doesn't mean that it can't be done - or that the motives of those involved are suspect or that their beliefs should be questioned on this basis. The OP may feel it's appropriate to say "Charles Andrade Scammer" but making the statement doesn't make it true. He doesn't need me to defend his reputation and unlike many that post online anonymous - is transparent and open to his efforts from everything I've seen and you are welcomed to contact him online as he's doesn't hide in a hole or anonymous usernames without identifying himself. Neither do I - which i why I posted my name in the first sentence.

If anything involving online marketing is considered a scam to you - I agree - to you is it a scam and you will never be successful employing it. If caring about people other than yourself and you have no causes that you are passionate about - I agree you will likely not achieve more than what you do now. If you don't believe in God while others do - I agree - to you your god can be seen only in the mirror and even the reflection of what is important will be gone when you are.

When you have over 130,000 people enrolled interested in promoting a program because of what they recognize even before it launches - can you attest to the motives of every single one and determine how much of their excitement is attributed to their interest in creating additional income for their family vs their mindset of altruism and wanting to contribute to more that just their own needs - of course not. These are the things that we only know about ourselves at an intimate level. The lifetime membership is limited to a specific number of participants - so although I appreciate the graphic posted - it may no longer be available when others view it - but chose it for myself because I don't base my decisions solely on the opinions of others that post speculation in forums.

Do I know for certain that it will have that global impact that we all hope for? - of course not - but I do know that all of the churches, charity programs, and even my friend with her cause for her son are optimistic and grateful to be involved. Will the push program be phenomenally successful for those in the Philippines sponsored be their Army and Navy - I don't know - but hope so. Will the 130 pastors in India that recently came aboard be successful in helping with shelter and clean water for their community - I don't know but have faith. Will the TV channel we sponsor be received with as much enthusiasm? I know - but hope so. With the movie about human trafficking with the family of Martin Luther King Jr's family be one that makes people think and want to do something about it? I don't know - but it I am hopeful in that too. The only thing for certain is that if no one does anything - nothing will get done and I have no problem being compensated for my time for something that I'd have participated in for nothing. .

I don't know if the forum rules here allow posting a link to contact me directly with questions as I'm too busy to follow threads everywhere - so I'll error on the side of caution out of respect for their site and others and include a non- click-able one (TJudd.com) but also mention I am open to answer publicly to those that have questions to those that don't hide in the shadows or are anonymous cowards. None of us are perfect, can walk on water, or claim to be - but we are sincere in our attempts to make a difference that will hopefully last beyond our lives.

Have an incredible day - Tim - I've got to get back to work :whip_the_worker:

[Whip]

You failed to address 2 of the biggest online scammers pushing your 'program'. What did you to do to vet them (other than nothing) if you are legit?

[ProfHenryHiggins]

Whip, that appears to be Timothy Judd of the My Bridge Card drawing entry form (http://www.mybridgecard.com) site - pretty much a serial con man himself wrapped in "Christian" affinity fraud. He's definitely a Kool-aid drinker, if you've seen his many Facebook pages and denial of "negative people."

[digitalincome]

@ Whip - thanks for you reply - I'm not sure who you're referring to as but I'm only responsible for my own actions and intentions - the same as you or anyone else. There are thousands of people in the program and of course a lot of ministers, pastors, reverends, - whatever they prefer to be called in their denomination - but vetting people to me isn't the best way for me to spend my time. I typically take people at face value and remind myself that there's not a single person on the planet that would feel comfortable with having their entire life displayed on a big screen for the world to view - and also that people are capable of positive change even if they have skeletons in their closet. Also I may have a different view of what it meant to be a Christian than others and don't try and force them on others - and anyone that claims to be a Christian would have to agree that those Jesus was closest to had very checkered pasts before they made a decision to choose another path. As for the program TVG- there's nothing anyone here could say that would make me question my decision to try and achieve more in life and to give back to others as I'm able.

@Henry - thanks for sharing the link as the page for drawings has been the same for years as most of my business comes from referrals for my food biz. I probably should check to see if the links are still active to info sites - but it's not a priority at this time as I'm busy - but you have the time - so I appreciate if you'd let me know =) . Hey - ya never know but if TVG does well as everyone hopes it will - I may later decide to sell my food biz anyway and do it full time. Also thanks for visiting my page on FB - you didn't have to be afraid to say hello - it was the reason I posted it here - and yes it's true that I prefer to interact with positive people and delete those that are knuckleheads and spammers, but i do my best not to pre-judge anyone even you. I have to run because there's some Kool-aid to drink that oddly enough goes great with a porterhouse steak.

[Whip]

Since you want to hide behind the veil of religion, you don't think it prudent to warn your 'flock' of potential danger in dealing with scammers? What if the scammers aren't "capable of positive change even if they have skeletons in their closet."? (They aren't as they have been proven to be participating in scams time and time again.) Why do you think this thread even exists? People getting ripped off is just as much on you since you think you can position yourself in some kind of holier than thou pulpit and try to claim 'none on me'.

[littleroundman]

Since you want to hide behind the veil of religion, you don't think it prudent to warn your 'flock' of potential danger in dealing with scammers?

To say nothing of the dangers behind "Affinity Fraud" and why the SEC finds it necessary to warn against Affinity Fraud (http://www.sec.gov/investor/pubs/affinity.htm)

That the Federal Trade Commission has issued an FTC warning against affinity fraud (http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/strange-affinity)

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has taken the trouble to warn its' members with an Official Statement - affinity fraud (http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/official-statement/affinity-fraud)

The North American Securities Administrators Association found it necessary to do likewise (http://www.nasaa.org/8217/state-securities-cops-warn-about-religious-affinity-fraud/) while offering examples of recent Affinity Fraud cases such as:


In October, trial is scheduled to begin in Florida for seven officials of the Tampa-based Greater Ministries International Church. They are charged in a 20-count federal indictment alleging conspiracy, money laundering and mail fraud. State securities regulators and prosecutors believe Greater Ministries operated a massive Ponzi scheme that may have defrauded more than 17,000 investors nationwide of as much as $200 million.

Many of the investors were fundamentalist Christians, including Mennonites in rural Pennsylvania, Ohio and Virginia, according to Michael Byrne, director of enforcement at the Pennsylvania Securities Commission. They were told their money would double in installment payments made over 17 months or less. Investors were quoted Luke 6:38: “Give, and it shall be given unto you.” Greater Ministries officials told investors that state and federal securities laws didn’t apply to them because the investments were “gifts” to the Church and the payments from the church to investors, called “blessings,” were not subject to taxes.

In Texas, a former Sunday school teacher, Renju Malayil Thomas of Missouri City, is being sought by the FBI on charges that he swindled at least 33 people, many of them church members, out of more than $1 million. Thomas, according to Texas Securities Commissioner Denise Voigt Crawford, victimized members of a church in Stafford. The victims, like him, were immigrants from India. Thomas and another man, Thomas Mathew, scheduled to go on trial in mid-September, allegedly got money from investors to buy nationally known stocks and then stashed the cash in their personal bank and brokerage accounts.

In Illinois, the Illinois Securities Department is investigating an oil and gas investment scheme in which the promoter targeted Christians by claiming he had built a device to find oil based on visions he had received from God. About 150 investors are believed to have lost more than $1 million.

In Wisconsin, this month (September), Bernell Ross of Milwaukee will go on trial for securities fraud. Ross was allegedly going to create a local minority-owned and operated telephone company. To raise money for this venture, Ross targeted members of the Milwaukee inner city, often going through local churches to reach parishioners. Hundreds of Milwaukee residents are believed to have invested. They were told that they would make money on the operations of the company and through a future public offering. Soon after the money was raised the company, Intra Community Communications, filed for bankruptcy protection.

Religious affinity fraud can be more general manipulations based on religious faith. In Indiana, for example, state securities regulators say elderly investors were duped into buying bogus promissory notes by three men, two insurance agents and an investment adviser, who often got on their knees and prayed with their victims to gain their trust.

In Alabama in late July, Wayne Gregory of Madison was sentenced to 30 years for bilking 30 retirement age investors out of nearly $6 million. At the sentencing hearing, Gregory was greeted with jeers and boos as he tried to apologize to his victims. The judge received many letters about Gregory, a former financial consultant. Many victims, the judge said, were drawn to Gregory because he was charismatic and had “Christian values.”

In Pennsylvania earlier this year several small Catholic churches were defrauded of about $1 million by an investment adviser-parishioner who had won the trust of parish priests.

Do a quick Google search using the term: "Affinity fraud warning" (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=affinity+fraud+warning&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=6Y8nVLeYEaeN8Qf9koC4Bw) or simply click on that link and you'll find around About 9,080,000 results, so, the threat of affinity fraud is very, very real.

[ProfHenryHiggins]

@Henry - thanks for sharing the link as the page for drawings has been the same for years as most of my business comes from referrals for my food biz. I probably should check to see if the links are still active to info sites - but it's not a priority at this time as I'm busy - but you have the time - so I appreciate if you'd let me know =) . Hey - ya never know but if TVG does well as everyone hopes it will - I may later decide to sell my food biz anyway and do it full time. Also thanks for visiting my page on FB - you didn't have to be afraid to say hello - it was the reason I posted it here - and yes it's true that I prefer to interact with positive people and delete those that are knuckleheads and spammers, but i do my best not to pre-judge anyone even you. I have to run because there's some Kool-aid to drink that oddly enough goes great with a porterhouse steak.

Your food business is, in my eyes, far more honest than several of your online ones, Timothy, even if you are pushing gourmet foods with one hand and welfare food with the other.

Take cannabiscashflow.com, for example. Is it really "Christian" to be seeking to profit from people in pain, and doing so via a MLM structure in a locale where the medicinal plant in question is not yet legal?

Or christianfundinggroup.com. Every regular here knows how I feel about cash gifting, and it isn't hard to find out that in Michigan, it is a crime to be involved with. Even worse, this particular gifting scheme has financial ties to older scams from the very top. Do the names Zeek Rewards and OneX ring any bells?

Do I want to look into what 810girl.com was about? Or powerfulpreselling.com? Seniorsupplementalincome.com? Investmentlove.com? You do remember the warning in the Bible about the root of evil, I hope, and why both Christianity and Islam technically forbid charging interest. Latestjackpot.com?

Whether you are in Farwell, Flint, Mt. Morris or Saginaw, your Internet footprints show me things about your ethics that belie the image you are trying to cultivate with Ishepherd.com.

[digitalincome]

Thanks guys for the replies.

One thing that I did want to mention while here is that although the program is based on Christian principle of helping others - it's not exclusionary or to prohibit anyone with any beliefs to join and participate. Considering that there are likely 100's of denominations in the Christian faith alone - this wouldn't make much sense. In fact there are those that have no religious or church affiliation that simply want to participate for a worthy cause they are passionate about. I think sometimes when you say you are a Christian - others try to look for inconsistencies or actions that would differ with their personal definition - but that's one thing about beliefs - we don't have to agree to want to become better people or do contribute more. A drunk prostitute can buy a homeless guy a sandwich and is more Christian in my opinion than then guy in the Armani suit that simply walked by.

@ Whip - i don't hide behind anything nor do I have a "Flock"' or in general talk to anyone incapable of making their own decisions but understand if you have reservations about participating in anything without first gathering facts to see if it's something that is truly being designed and implement to help others and not some type of scam. No one could object to this and it's noble to warn others if you found something that was - but for people to summarily classify something as a scam simply because it compensates others to promote or using networking to market as opposed to tradition tv ads, direct mail, etc - is not any more ethical than those that are actually running scams in my opinion. This thread is suspiciously quiet in providing anything that would support the OP's opinion that it was a scam - and my guess is that it's because it was an unfounded statement made by someone that considers everything a scam - maybe because they failed to achieve success and are venting outward and looking for others to blame or maybe just enjoys the attention. What makes TVG a scam ? It hasn't even launched yet as has had a positive impact for many people. Is it because it also has a networking component to the compensation to provide funding that automatically is considered a scam ? Are the participants here so bent on calling everything a scam and everyone a con artist that participates - even when a program is designed with the opposite goal? That's just sad.

Being new here - I believe the site can provide a valuable service when those participating have a sincere interest in helping others - but commenting my opinions about TVG - see that it's just as likely to make yourself a target of attack instead of addressing the post that was made originally. I'm OK with that - or wouldn't have posted my name and my link. I've never claimed to be perfect in every way and don't hold a stone in my hand to throw at others that go against the consensus of scam or not - by saying not, when all others are likely to call everything a scam. If you want a real challenge - find me a single networking company that someone doesn't consider a scam. This would keep you busy until, let's see ....forever.

@"Henry" - thank you for your reply - even though it's not relevant to the post about TVG. I'm not exactly sure what "welfare food" is that you mention as my customers receive the same products regardless of their method of payment. Consistency and higher grade of products are deserving to everyone equally -whether it be a little old lady on a fixed income that pays with "welfare" that she's entitled to after a lifetime of contributing to society - or the guy down the street that wants to impress his friends with colossal tiger prawns and steaks and prefers to pay cash.

Also - I appreciate the mention of some of the domains I've purchased but there are 100's more that you can see at www.facebook.com/DomainsDevelopment if you'd like to question my ideas for developing those too. The ones you mention , a couple I let go and are expired, others I bought with development ideas, and the cannabis one is one that i bought to promote CDB extract products not those involving THC -had you bothered to actually research before spouting. I haven't had much time to promote because I'm more excited about the launching of TVG and am hopeful that it is the best long term decision. Will it bring long term relief and help millions while also providing an income source for families that could use the help? Guess we'll see - but am hopeful as it's certainly an ambitious goal. I understated your need to try to derail the tread and make the conversation about me instead of TVG if you have nothing more to say to support your claim that it is a scam - but suspect you put a greater value on your opinion to others here in your "every regular here knows" - but could be wrong. Squeaky wheel and all that.

The most comical part of your reply "Henry" - and I appreciate the good laugh is your statement "your Internet footprints show me things". I picture someone so desperately starved for attention that they're up all night trying to gather information to post that when it comes down to it - those he researches really don't care - I know I don't and it's irrelevant to the tread about TVG. I'm realty not impressed with your footprint following since my domains are all publicly listed and some are for projects, others available for same if I don't have time to develop, and others I let go if I've moved on to other things. Again - it is unfortunate that you are unable to stay on topic about the thread and chose instead to try to attack the first person that disagrees. It reminds me of those crickets are are annoying and noisy from a distance - but when you walk by it's suddenly silent. In fact from now on - I'll address you as Cricket if you don't mind? If you have nothing better to do with your time, Cricket, you don't have to sneak around the outside of the house in the dark looking for footprints while tying to get a glimpse of what skeletons are in a closet - the front door is wide open - come on in a have a look around. If anyone has a question about anything I've ever done, said, or marketed - they don't have to "research" anything - and can simply message me and ask. If you'd like to know my history or any of the crazy things my friends and I did when I was young and what I or any of my friends do now - simply ask. If you want to look in the toilet to investigate before I flush just let me know. The last thing I'd like to say - and read this carefully "Henry" "Cricket" - is that it's ironic that someone would post in their signature about integrity while hiding in the shadows. Come on out into the light. Unless you are a complete coward or little girl in her parents basement plucking away and pointing fingers at others while hiding yourself. I posted my real name and a link to my profile for anyone to see - and failure for you to do the same will be undeniable proof and my suppositions confirmed that you must be a little anonymous coward that needs to stay hidden because she's scared she'll be found out. I hope this isn't the case as you seem to have a similar sarcastic sense of humor, and as you saw when you visited my FB page, I don't sweat the small stuff as life is too short - but guess we'll see in your next post.

With that said - if anyone has something helpful to comment about the OP's topic - it would be nice to get this tread back on track - even though ranting about Cricket was a little fun pointing out the hypocrisy. Ok -Cricket can have his name back - Henry - just having a little fun with the tread. Thanks again guys - and have a great day. :watching_you:

[ribshaw]

Hello - Tim Judd Here - I'm new here as I was recently sent the link by a friend interested in TVG - so I thought I'd take a minute to reply. I realize that some people consider anything that involves networking or any form of promotion outside the traditional corporate ad spending and especially if those promoting are compensated for their efforts must be some type of scam so I won't waste time challenging the ignorance in their flawed logic.

Has nothing to do with logic and everything to do with math.

Logic: If it looks like a pyramid scam, is promoted like a pyramid scam, it is a pyramid scam and will collapse like a pyramid scam.

Math: There are not enough people in the world for the garbage you are peddling to end in anything else than massive losses for 99% of participants.



One thing that I did want to mention while here is that although the program is based on Christian principle of helping others

I was in line for coffee this weekend and the mother in front of me needed a penny to get back even change, I reached in my lint filled pocket and gave her one.

What you are schlepping would involve me turning around and expecting the guy behind give me a nickel.

[Whip]

so you have no answer as to why you let known, proven scammers pitch this scam to others. Not surprising really.

[digitalincome]

Thanks for the opinion - however using the same logic and math - EVERY program is a pyramid scam and the companies that have lasted for decades and created incomes for many from the "garbage they're peddling" must be pyramid scams - but for some reason people keep using their products and services. I'm not trying to pitch anyone here on any program - but to offer my opinion of the program and the reason I joined for an alternative perspective. Trying to convince people to do something that they will find any excuse to fail at and that view EVERY program as a scam if it is promoted by networking with others is like trying to convince vegans to eat a pork chop - a waste of time. Affiliate programs are no different -some people pay for a service they use themselves but couldn't market the same service to any of the other 7 billion people on the planet to find a couple that would reduce what they pay for the referral or be in profit. It doesn't matter how many levels are involved - networking and affiliate programs aren't for everyone.


Has nothing to do with logic and everything to do with math.

Logic: If it looks like a pyramid scam, is promoted like a pyramid scam, it is a pyramid scam and will collapse like a pyramid scam.

Math: There are not enough people in the world for the garbage you are peddling to end in anything else than massive losses for 99% of participants.



I was in line for coffee this weekend and the mother in front of me needed a penny to get back even change, I reached in my lint filled pocket and gave her one.

What you are schlepping would involve me turning around and expecting the guy behind give me a nickel.

[digitalincome]

Thanks for the reply Whip - but again I don't know who who you are referring to as a "proven scammer" - or what they promoted or the criteria used to make the determination. As to why I 'let" others pitch anything - people have the right to pitch anything they want and others have the same right to question it or choose not to join them. I am only responsible for what I do - not for every other person on the planet. Why did you buy the cell phone you use - when there's a guy at the factory that beats his wife? Are you in support of domestic violence? How about a more direct comparison - It's no different than this site - Why do you allow scammers to here post here while hiding behind anonymous screen names? How many are actually promoting other programs while challenging the integrity of others? Just because these "known" people are familiar to you - I don't know everything about everyone else on the planet and my psychic parakeet has the day off. Did they promote publicly or "Anonymous, As are you all' ? If they're known here they at least have that much integrity to be known and held accountable as opposed to hiding in the dark and have hopefully changed their ways if they were doing something questionable previously.

[littleroundman]

Oh, please.

You aren't doing yourself or the HYIP ponzi scammers you're defending any good with your cookie cutter, straight-out-of-the-scammers-handbook, strawman arguments

At least try to come up with something original before you make yourself look more foolish than you already have

[digitalincome]

Wasn't trying to offend you Little with whatever you are secretly promoting and if you wrote a scammers handbook about your experience of scamming people and are now reformed as I don't know you from Adam either. I haven't read it - is it shown authored by a fake name you use here or another one you use in other forums? I must be new to online marketing and didn't get the memo that I must know everyone and care about what everyone else is doing. The strange thing is that I don't know my mechanics wife's shoe size but he did a great job repairing one of my vehicles today - so it looks like I don't need to know everything about everyone to get things accomplished. What a concept. BTW - You're not doing yourself any favors by defending cowardice and the eagerness to point fingers at others from inside a closet. Looks like it must be crowed in there. Anyway - I have to run - and to see if i can try and come up with an original thought - i think.

[littleroundman]

I have to run - and to see if i can try and come up with an original thought

Yet another post in which you talk about everything else BUT True Vision Global

[Whip]

but again I don't know who who you are referring to as a "proven scammer"

Then why are you here? You said you were allegedly told about this thread. The topic of the thread is this scam and the scammers promoting it. Why didn't you read the thread and research before commenting?


whatever you are secretly promoting

another typical scammer line.

[digitalincome]

Thanks for the replies. I was told about the thread - or more accurately sent a link from someone else that is the COO of another company and was looking at TVG as a way to help promote theirs. Prior to that I had never participated in this forum but in reading the post wanted to express my opinion and gave an honest evaluation only to find that those respond felt it more important to go on the attack instead of explaining what they thought made TVG a scam in their opinion. Also - with reference to "known" scammers invited a specif example of who it was referring to specifically and why they are considered a scammer here. The result was obviously comments and banter that had nothing to do with either. The question remains - what makes TVG a scam? I can call a fork a spoon - but doesn't make it true or easy to use for a bowl of soup.

[ribshaw]

Thanks for the opinion - however using the same logic and math - EVERY program is a pyramid scam

Afraid Not.

A real business provides a service that stands alone with an owner(s), workers, and customers. MLM/GIFTING/ENDLESS RECRUITING is just one big money suck for the masses. Then you blame failure on work ethic rather than math. The bottom line is we don't all get to be owners anymore than we all get to be rock stars.

Taco Bell may be a great business, put one on every corner of a town as MLM seeks to do and it suddenly becomes an unsustainable money game. Great for the franchise sellers, guaranteed losses for everyone else.



The question remains - what makes TVG a scam?

A focus on recruiting recruiting and more recruiting. If it wasn't a scam they would hire a few qualified salespeople like real companies do.

[digitalincome]

As much as I love tacos - TVG is an online advertising platform and portal to promote whatever a person wants - church needs a roof, family down the road needs help, need volunteers - whatever. I looked at it from a membership perspective and asked myself if it had enough traffic would I pay the monthly fee for access to the traffic if there was no compensation plan involved - the same as those that join dating sites for their traffic. Sure - because I have domains that have been collecting e-dust all over the place and would like to develop a couple. Would others likely want to join for the same reason? - probably. Do i have an issue with my friend being compensated a percentage of what I pay to use for her son. or bills, etc while not costing me any more? - of course not. If others chose to market the same platform will they receive training about the features and option the same as "real companies" do? - sure. Will it help others outside of the program that have invested nothing and don't participate? absolutely. The only thing about the thing I would change to make it perfect would be to allow others to promote without also having a membership themselves - unless this is already now an option as well. Off to eat a taco cause that does sound good right about now.

[Fat City, LA]

Did a bit of catching up on this one.
At the very least, its being promoted by dozen or more who only do scams. Most of them make a specialty of targeting "Christian" types.

Regardless of this yokel going on and on and saying nothing, this will be a long thread with much grief in the end.

[littleroundman]

Regardless of this yokel going on and on and saying nothing,

Keeps him/her off the streets, I suppose.

Other than that, goodness knows what he /she thinks he / she is accomplishing.

[kschang]

As much as I love tacos - TVG is an online advertising platform and portal to promote whatever a person wants - church needs a roof, family down the road needs help, need volunteers - whatever. I looked at it from a membership perspective and asked myself if it had enough traffic would I pay the monthly fee for access to the traffic if there was no compensation plan involved - the same as those that join dating sites for their traffic.

The problem is you are reading the "market" wrong.

A church is a LOCAL institution. Its members rarely comes from more than 30 minutes away except in rural areas. Thus, "advertising platform" that's Christians only is worthless. Advertisements regarding churches and such are far better served by local media like radio, TV, newspaper, and such. Or even Facebook or church's own website.

To use dating sites for example. Surely if you are in, say, Los Angeles, you don't look for dates in, say, London or Manila or Perth?

The short of it is TVG, if it is honest, is a "solution in search of a problem". Worse, it's "problem that had been solved and this adds nothing new". It's Traditional Media. Craigslist, Social media, and so on. TVG is competing with ALL of them.

And there are many signs that TVG is merely a reboot of "Ad Surf Daily" if you ignore the "Christian" aspect of it. The promoters do seem to be mostly HYIPsters (and many of them do use religion too, like Profitable Sunrise HYIP)

I'd say the risk level for this is in the 90+% range, which is way too high for me. Perhaps it is not for you.

[JackTolerance]

Well, well, well...........what an interesting topic we have here!

I'm a bit tired and just on my way to bed but I happened to catch this topic title and was immediately intrigued......because I am somebody that was IN TVG quite a few months back.

Oh yes.

Small world, isn't it?

And why aren't I in there anymore? Too be honest, it's too long a story to type out here.

But I'll give you a very quick summary; a view point from someone who saw a little bit behind the curtain...

I was involved in TVG from the end of 2013 to around May I think it was this year when I finally stepped down. The main thing we were trying to do was to use the Penny Matrix program (PYRAMID SCAM!) which along with Tracy Davison (SCAMMER IMHO) was also pushing a lot because of his somewhat outlandish claims of having such a massive downline that he intended to put into PM from his Zeek Reward (ABSOLUTE SCAM!) days. Tracy is someone you could do a wholeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee topic and then some on itself, but for the purpose of this topic (even though he is linked or was in a lot of ways), I will just stick to talking about TVG.

You see, the plan was, we were all going to go out canvassing (more on that in a minute) to all the churches and charities and Christian organizations across the world to join PM Books (STILL A SCAM) so we could help fund and support them all through the sale of e-books and e-book memberships amongst other things. Sounds like a pretty noble cause in theory, right? Well, maybe the support part.

Except I was one of the people who was on my phone and PC every single day for weeks at a time, trying to get entire churches etc to sign up into ostensibly, a HUGE product-based(AT BEST) pyramid scheme!

And for someone who apparently has (and I quote) 'millions' of contacts through all these various churches and organisations (mostly Pentecostal) across the globe and at one time told me that well over a hundred well known churches here in the UK were getting on board.....only that never happened.......well, one has to ask - so WHY am I out 'canvassing' like some bloody rep wasting God knows how much of my phone bill money to (thankfully) get nowhere because these people clearly had more sense than I did! :duh:

And all in the name of the Lord!

There were quite a few things that now in hindsight, obviously led to the total collapse of this idea. And as I am no longer in TVG and certainly want NOTHING to do with it or any of it's leaders/core people behind it, I cannot say what they are doing now or attempting to do now. But for it's principal owner i.e. Lois McQuinn, she told all of us on the management team that her lawyers (yeah, right! I wonder if Tracy Davison has the same imaginary legal team that he reckons are going to sue Paypal for having his shitty pyramid program 60secondmillionairesecrets.com blacklisted and for damn good reason!) were launching an investigation into Tracy and his company, Pinoy Recruiters and that we as 'staff' of TVG all had to disassociate from Tracy and PR because we could be libel to be possibly arrested for being involved with known criminal activity. I **** you not.

As I was also an agent for Pinoy Recruiters at the time, I immediately handed in my resignation (like this was even a real job for Christ's sake!) because I certainly didn't want the police thinking I was knowingly involved in some sort of scheme that was being investigated. Except of course, NONE of this happened because NONE of it was true.

And that was just ONE of the many outright lies that Lois concocted.

I find it amusing that you have one liar/charlatan trying to accuse another liar/charlatan of being unethical. Truly laughable.

Except the absolute ****-storm it caused in the groups that were linked to this on Facebook, most notably Team Tsunami, were anything but laughing.

I wish I had taken screen caps now of some of the carryings on that went on. But to be honest, I am just completely glad I saw sense and had the feeling (yet again) that somehow I was not only being taking for an almighty ride, but so were a few genuine other people such as myself who joined this thing because we all felt we were going to be part of something GENUINELY revolutionary and truly helpful for so many people worldwide. And that's what pains me the most when all has been said and done. The fact that I/we started to convince some genuine churches/charities/individuals out there that we were going to do just that with Penny Matrix, Tracy and TVG.

And I am not going to name 2 key people who were also part of the management team who stepped down because they too not only saw what was really going on but they themselves were taken advantage of and lied too, hugely so in fact. And as for Charles Andrade? I'm sorry, but I trust that guy about as much as I would Tracy Davison. i.e. I DON'T. He is just another major pyrarmid/Ponzi pimp who sits pretty on top of the chain as much as possible and is one of the only people to profit/benefit at all from any of these garbage scams he gets involved with (Vemma, Xplocial, Wake Up Now, SpinDing to name but a few). The list goes on and on.

The fact that he and Tracy have both had their channels terminated (although I think Charles' is still back on inexplicably) on Youtube because clearly YT don't like the fact they are constantly peddling their schemes on there, speaks volumes. I've had a couple of people message me before on FB that used to be in Team Tsunami and were completely fed up with never seeing any return on their money and doing all of the legwork, while venture after venture either collapsed or didn't pay out JUST LIKE THESE SCAMS DO ONE BY ONE. It is inevitable as it is depressing.

Why do you think Team Tsunami has such a seismic (pun intended) shift in their 'team counsel' and members leaving/being inactive all the time? It's no mystery. After me spending some 15 months in total joining all these BS biz ops and MLMs and Facebook 'Business' Groups (eghhh!), I can tell you first hand it's just the same **** over and over and over again.

And as some of you know, the truly sad part is, unlike me, some of these people just NEVER see sense. They are so brainwashed and inwardly petrified of giving up the outlandish dream of trying to hit it big with all these programs, that they will ignore all common sense and logic as well as the well- meaning advice from family and friends who can see all this for what it is.

I'm sure (Tim is it?) you will no doubt come back with some articulate post about how I've got it wrong maybe or how TVG have moved on and are actually trying to do what they claim they are doing.

But at the risk of sounding coarse, I am going to go with that old adage of "If you lie down with dogs, you get fleas" - well I laid down with a few of these dogs and I've all but ripped my skin off from scratching.

And now I am properly de-loused and I intend to stay that way for the rest of my days.

:RpS_cool:

P.S. And speaking of Mr Davison, there is an article/report on him on the excellent BehindMLM website of which I will leave a link underneath. You can see from that I am sure just how some of this interlinked with PM and TVG as I explained above: 60 Second Millionaire: ex-Zeek pimp flees to Philippines (http://behindmlm.com/companies/60-second-millionaire-review-ex-zeek-pimp-flees-to-philippines/)

[JackTolerance]

P.P.S. Did I also mention the near constant barrage of religious drivel I had to endure almost daily from these people, both on Skype calls and on Facebook etc? "This is God's plan and the devil is always trying to disrupt what he has chosen" blah de fugging blah NOPE! That would just be down to plain ole' man (and woman) being avaricious and greedy and manipulative as usual and trying to use/blame everything down to mythical fairytale creations instead of their own, shameless selves. Sorry! :onloo:

[Voice of Reason]

Don't get me wrong - I'm not here to defend TVG, I think one of their 4 owners should do that and also press charges for slander if what is being said in this thread is not true. That being said, the issue is simply this - are the accusations and insinuations true, or just the vain speculations of cynical minds and the sour grapes of disgruntled former members?

I haven't seen anything that would constitute hard evidence in this thread, so there is no basis on which to make a determination, other than rants based on personal opinion and speculation.

Please, if there is hard evidence and verifiable facts, lay them out in a logical manner. Someone bought me a lifetime membership at TVG because I am interested in feeding orphans. If TVG is only some type of scam. I will be greatly disappointed, and more so the orphans who will continue to do without.

I would like to know now rather than later, even if it is bad news. That would minimize lost time and effort on their behalf, which could be put into something else with a greater chance of success. So please, if you are only ranting, stop trying to undermine a humanitarian effort. If you have hard evidence let's see it - I would be the first one to thank you.

[NikSam]

One has to wonder whether or not the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are aware that they allegedly joined this scam.

...

I would just ask how many Boy Scouts and how many Girl scouts joined ? :)
Do they go and pimp a ponzi door to door instead of selling cookies ?

[Whip]

Don't get me wrong - I'm not here to defend TVG, I think one of their 4 owners should do that and also press charges for slander if what is being said in this thread is not true. That being said, the issue is simply this - are the accusations and insinuations true, or just the vain speculations of cynical minds and the sour grapes of disgruntled former members?

I haven't seen anything that would constitute hard evidence in this thread, so there is no basis on which to make a determination, other than rants based on personal opinion and speculation.

Please, if there is hard evidence and verifiable facts, lay them out in a logical manner. Someone bought me a lifetime membership at TVG because I am interested in feeding orphans. If TVG is only some type of scam. I will be greatly disappointed, and more so the orphans who will continue to do without.

I would like to know now rather than later, even if it is bad news. That would minimize lost time and effort on their behalf, which could be put into something else with a greater chance of success. So please, if you are only ranting, stop trying to undermine a humanitarian effort. If you have hard evidence let's see it - I would be the first one to thank you.

you might want to actually read the thread. But you weren't sent here for that.

[littleroundman]

It would be a pretty poor scam, indeed, if the sort of "hard evidence Voice of Reason is demanding was to be so easily found a bunch of forum posters could access it.

See the logo in the top left hand corner of the forum, Voice of Reason ??

http://www.realscam.com/images/misc/realscam-logo1.gif

It says quite clearly: "Is it or isn't it? You decide" and you have obviously decided

Unfortunately, as much as we would like it to be different, any "proof" of the standard you require will only be found after TVG disappears, is busted or they sue the forum and it comes to light during the "discovery" phase of any subsequent legal action

(BTW, Voice of Reason, "slander" is the spoken word, I believe "libel" is the word you are looking for)

Then again, the disclaimer at the bottom of each page of the site covers the question of who is going to be sued, don't you think:


Disclaimer: Opinions expressed on this website are solely those of their respective authors.

[Voice of Reason]

you might want to actually read the thread. But you weren't sent here for that.

No one sent me here. I came of my own accord.

I read the thread but insinuating someone is a scammer doesn't make them a scammer. Saying something is peddled by known scammers is slanderous unless you have proof. Were they convicted of fraud? Where is the proof, or am I just to take your word for it? If I call you a scammer does that make you one? Hey everyone watch out for that Whip person - they are a scammer - lol...

[Voice of Reason]

Thank-you for pointing that out littleroundman. So you are saying that there is no actual proof that TVG is a scam, but you want everyone to believe they are? For what reason?

I have no proof you are a pedophile, but if I insinuate you are that's OK too I guess, by your logic.

Why don't I just start a conspiracy theory that you are a anti-religious activist that works for TVG's competition, and are trying to increase your fortunes by hurting them. After all, evidence isn't required.

================

Seriously now, I just said those things to make a point, not to insinuate anything. However the question remains, if you slander TVG and hurt an authentic humanitarian effort, causing orphans to die of starvation, that's OK in your books? Don't you see there can be some very real and disastrous consequences to what you are doing?

[NikSam]

Funny how jesus humping fellas with straight face
conclude that a term for criminal scheme "Penny Matrix" is a god given good thing.

Look who pimps this crap, all the serial cash-gifters and ponzi promoters.
Do you really need them to serve in jail to conclude they are scammers?

How about they been doing it for year after year, jumping like fleas from one crashed scam to another.

If you see where the money to pay profits are coming from and can explain it please do.
Otherwise we see only duping money cycling scam. and your definite proof will be when people will loose their money
or feds will nail them and they will not be able to show that money are earned with outside revenue but in pyramid fashion.

How about that we were always right on your so called "opportunities" ?
Our job is easy, we can just seat and watch and do nothing, your scam will collapse by itself :) or with law enforcement assistance.

There are no Magic Money Making Systems – Only crime.
Even jesus could not do that miracle.

[littleroundman]

I have no proof you are a pedophile, but if I insinuate you are that's OK too I guess, by your logic.

Oh dear,

straight out of the "Ponzi Defenders Handbook"

Why am I not surprised

I'll tell you what, Voice - why not double your "investment" - sell the farm and invest the proceeds - encourage your parents to cash in their retirement funds and send it off as well.

Don't believe a word we say - PLEASE

[NikSam]

:RpS_lol:


Please someone, get in touch with American Express and with UNICEF to make me stop laughing :)

8529

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3d2hTFQdzY


Did Lavey's Church of Satan also join ?


I would not insist on giving me contact details on 70k church leaders, but please give me top 10 :)


P.S. VoiceOfReason, you coming here and defending this scam will back fire, now you attracting more scam-busters on the topic.
Before nobody cared about this low profile crap, now you raised the stakes, not gonna fly under radar, some people will do time – remember what i said.

[littleroundman]

Federal Trade Commission charity scam warning page (http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/features/feature-0011-charity-scams)

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/572/YMS5tU.jpg

Better Business Bureau Wise Giving Alliance (http://www.bbb.org/us/charity)

Charity Navigator (http://www.charitynavigator.org/)

Charity Watch (http://charitywatch.org/)

GuideStar (http://www.guidestar.org)

IRS Search for Tax Exempt Organizations (http://www.irs.gov/app/pub-78/)

National Association of State Charity Officials (http://www.nasconet.org/)

[Voice of Reason]

Don't believe a word we say - PLEASE

littleroundman - perhaps you were not listening. I would be the first to thank you if you can show me that TVG connect is a scam. I don't have anything invested in them, but I do have a stake in this issue.

Someone sponsored me a lifetime membership because I want to feed orphans, and they believe this may help me to do that. If it can't, I want to know. If it can, I want to feel good about being associated with something that is not only legal, but ethical and a force for good in the world.

The problem I have is that it's your word against theirs. I have no more reason to believe what you say, than to believe what they say. So, until I see some convincing evidence (one way or the other), I remain undecided. That's an uncomfortable place to be in, and I wish to settle the matter quickly.

I see earlier in the thread that Lois and her husband were involved in the Penny Matrix ebook plan, but that doesn't necessarily make them bad people. Lot's of folks get involved in affiliate marketing as a way to make honest money from home, and wouldn't' know a Ponzi scam from a cheese grater.

Even large well known companies like McDonald's and GM, participate in affiliate marketing. The difference between a scam and a legitimate marketing plan, lies in the structure and product. Unfortunately, the distinction is not readily apparent to most people (including me).

The critical question for the FTC is whether the revenues that primarily support the commissions paid to all participants are generated from purchases of goods and services that are not simply incidental to the purchase of the right to participate in a money-making venture. Kohm, James A. "RE: Staff Advisory Opinion - Pyramid Scheme Analysis" Federal Trade Commission.

So once again, if there is some type of convincing evidence that impropriety exists, please present it and I will personally thank-you. I'm not here to defend them or you, I just want the truth of the matter established ASAP.

[Voice of Reason]

littleroundman on your FTC Charity Warning page I don't see anywhere on there that TVG-Connect is a scam. It is also not a charity, it is a for profit company. Therefore, that page is meaningless to this topic so why post it here?

[Voice of Reason]

P.S. VoiceOfReason, you coming here and defending this scam will back fire, now you attracting more scam-busters on the topic.
Before nobody cared about this low profile crap, now you raised the stakes, not gonna fly under radar, some people will do time – remember what i said.

Once again, if they are a scam I will be the first to thank you for exposing them - I mean that. However, you disbelieving what they say in a promotional video doesn't make them fraudsters, it simply means you are a skeptic. Unless of course you do real research and find that they are falsely advertising. If what they are claiming isn't true, then prove it in a verifiable way - please. Otherwise it's just the disbelief of a skeptic, and it doesn't do anything to settle the matter for me or anyone else.

[NikSam]

Again. Can you explain how the profits are made and prove it ?

We are not demanding any payments, do not benefit in any way, they do, so who supposed to show the proof ?

Till then you can only take their word against ours (counting our multi year experience in). We see walks like a duck, ran by ducks, promoted by ducks, lies like a duck – must be a duck (never failed us).
If you believe that a serial duck one day turns into a swan it is just your belief, with 0 proof behind it.

The proof you are looking for I could only give you if I was in charge of it, but i would not :)

[NikSam]

..... I think one of their 4 owners should do that and also press charges for slander if what is being said in this thread is not true. That being said, the issue is simply this - are the accusations and insinuations true, or just the vain speculations of cynical minds and the sour grapes of disgruntled former members?
...

They free to come here and prove with facts that we (morons) are wrong.
They free to sue too ... maybe we counting on it.

[littleroundman]

If what they are claiming isn't true, then prove it in a verifiable way - please.

WE aren't asking people to send us money.

THEY aren't revealing either the source of their income or the registration of the charities to which they claim to be sending money

Any proof they are, in fact, sending money

Any proof that "cyclers" or "matrixes" are legal and / or sustainable

I'll say it again, the "verifiable proof" you are demanding isn't there unless we or you gain access to the inner workings and accounts of TVG.

I'll type this really slowly, to make it as easy as possible for you to read and comprehend:

It doesn't make one scintilla of difference to anyone here whether or not you send money to TVG.

If you want to ignore our advice, fine, go for it.

If you feel TVG complies with the FTC and other charity organizations suggestions WRT charity donations - excellent - donate away

If you feel TVG is doing charity work other, more reputable organizations cannot or will not do and you think it's worth the risk / gamble to send your money off to who-knows-where, no one here will know, much less attempt to stop you.

If either you or TVG want to sue for slander or libel or because we're arrogant, opinionated, nasty bastards and our eyes are too close together - even more excellent

DISCOVERY is the word of the month around here

[NikSam]

Amazing amount of likes on TVG Facebook page for some fake charity/ money scheme who has Boy Scouts , Girls Scouts, American Express, UNICEF, 70k church leaders on board and reaches 200 countries :)

8530


Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/True-Vision-Global

[littleroundman]

http://imageshack.com/a/img913/861/d50l3j.jpg

[littleroundman]

My cousins' girlfriends' next door neighbour contributes half his income to unnamed charities all over the world

Prove me wrong

[NikSam]

Are those 4 clowns supposed to sue ?

8531
8532
8533
8534

URL: True Vision Global Co-Founders | Entrepreneurs, Business and Churches Dedicated To Humanitarian Aid (http://www.truevisionleaders.com/true-vision-global-leaders/)


FACEBOOKS:
Lois McQuinn: https://www.facebook.com/truevisionGLOBAL , https://www.facebook.com/lois.mcquinn
Charles Andrade : https://www.facebook.com/charlesandrade , https://www.facebook.com/charles.andradeii
Gustavo Gus Zaldivar: https://www.facebook.com/gustavo.g.zaldivar
William R. Anderson Jr.: https://www.facebook.com/wiland697

[NikSam]

Interesting, a first unhappy member ?


8535



The girl is really cuckoo on jesus

8536

[Fat City, LA]

He uses this FB for his TVG propaganda.

https://www.facebook.com/charlesandrade/posts/10205148737297550

A payout tomorrow..

"I anticipate the inevitable, supernatural intervention of God!
I expect a miracle! I expect a miracle! I expect a miracle!"

Different style program but the responses remind me of those made of Profitable Sunrise.

[ProfHenryHiggins]

NikSam, your first attachment appears to be corrupted and unreadable.

[littleroundman]

http://imageshack.com/a/img537/5739/JOSqsL.jpg

Let's have a little look at "Team Tsunami" shall we ???

http://imageshack.com/a/img910/8077/dpQnnf.jpg

Team Tsunami plan.com (http://www.teamtsunamiplan.com/)

If we check out Team Tsunamis' recommendations, It appears Mr Andrade is not as clever or charitable as he would like us to believe

http://imageshack.com/a/img538/8963/veS0U0.jpg

On BEHINDMLM.com (http://behindmlm.com/) we find a review of Xplocial entitled Xplocial Review: $29 – $100 a month cash gifting (http://behindmlm.com/companies/xplocial-review-29100-a-month-cash-gifting/)

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/113/b4E7Ey.jpg

Penny Matrix (http://imageshack.com/a/img674/113/b4E7Ey.jpg) on the MMG HYIP ponzi forum

http://imageshack.com/a/img537/8193/btAa2n.jpg

Also from BEHINDMLM.com (http://behindmlm.com/) comes a review entitled Penny Matrix Review: God & $7/month membership (http://behindmlm.com/companies/penny-matrix-review-god-7month-membership/)

Which concludes:



Conclusion

http://behindmlm.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/pyramid-scheme-proof-facebook-penny-matrix.gif

Penny Matrix pays out 100% of its commissions out of membership fees. Along with the fact that no retail products are marketed or sellable by company affiliates, this equates to Penny Matrix fitting the definition of a pyramid scheme.

And with the company keeping half the income possible via recruitment into an affiliate’s matrix, not even a marketable pyramid scheme at that.

New members rely on recruitment in order to earn commissions and those already in the company rely on new and existing members to continue to pay their monthly memberships in order to get paid.

If members stop paying their monthly membership fees, nobody gets paid and the entire scheme falls apart.

An argument could be made that the ebook side of things legitimises the Penny Matrix opportunity, however with commissions not dependent on the sale of ebooks and ebooks not being available at a retail level, the ebook side of Penny Matrix serves as nothing more than a token inclusion to attempt to legitimise what is quite obviously a recruitment dependent pyramid scheme.

Or as Mike Dodd described it just last Monday on Facebook, a ‘tell 2 friends that tell 2 friends thingy‘.



As for AdExperts, not a lot needs to be said really, does it ??

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/7989/oNrB8g.jpg

[NikSam]

NikSam, your first attachment appears to be corrupted and unreadable.

Do not know why it does it.


Here it is:
8537

[NikSam]

Lois. please share with us which regulatory bodies you got approval from, perhaps we need to have a chat with those.

And please do not tell us that your only regulator is God.

8538

[path2prosperity]

Lois. please share with us which regulatory bodies you got approval from, perhaps we need to have a chat with those.

And please do not tell us that your only regulator is God.

Amen to that NikSam.

[Voice of Reason]

He uses this FB for his TVG propaganda.

"I anticipate the inevitable, supernatural intervention of God!
I expect a miracle! I expect a miracle! I expect a miracle!"


Millions of people use Facebook to promote, so they all must be evil right? What makes something propaganda instead of publicity? Do you just arbitrarily decide?

This person expresses faith - is that wrong? Better arrest the 1.5 billion Christians, not mention Muslims, Jews, etc.

Personally, I oppose the "Prosperity Gospel" vehemently, but there is nothing wrong with praying for and expecting a miracle, or in public confessions of faith.

Where is the evidence of a crime or scam here?

[littleroundman]

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/3885/32TrTP.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/9686/vDUTS5.jpg

Gustavo Zaldivar (http://www.ibosocial.com/Gustavo/pressrelease.aspx?prid=294685) on IboSocial

Let's take a closer look at Gustavos' immediate past, shall we ??

http://imageshack.com/a/img905/9209/8DWTH8.jpg

From BEHINDMLM.com (http://behindmlm.com/) comes Solavei to work through bankruptcy (http://behindmlm.com/companies/solavei-to-work-through-bankruptcy-on-tight-budget/)

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/7483/Kh735o.jpg

Gustavo Zaldivars' gustavo (http://www.internetevolving.com/?gustavo) member page on HipCo Inc / InternetEvolving.com

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/6003/TGh8qX.jpg

The web address of Gustavo Zaldivars' Gustavo (https://www.adrevworld.com/?ref=Gustavo) AdRevWorld website

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/5589/pLr5mh.jpg

OOPS !! Another HYIP ponzi down the drain

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/113/b4E7Ey.jpg

The PennyMatrix (http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Pennymatrix-Pennymatrix-t419451.html) thread on the MMG HYIP ponzi forum

[Voice of Reason]

Lois. please share with us which regulatory bodies you got approval from, perhaps we need to have a chat with those.

And please do not tell us that your only regulator is God.

8538

Actually, since you are the one bringing allegations, the onus is on you to prove that TVG connect has not met the approval of regulatory bodies. Do you have proof of that, or are you still making wild accusations?

[Voice of Reason]

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/3885/32TrTP.jpg

littleroundman thank you for posting this. So what you are alleging is that he is a crook because he is into marketing? Is marketing an illegal activity, or is it unethical? My understanding is that people can make an honest living as marketers, and that most major companies with an Internet presence have some sort of affiliate marketing plan. Granted, there are also a great many "scam" operations out there, run by crooks. However, that doesn't mean you can "tar everyone with the same brush", some are legitimate, some are illegitimate.

So how does one decide if a particular marketing system is illegal or unethical? Even if it turns out to be, does that mean that everyone who participated in it are crooks. I would think that the vast majority are just people trying to make some honest money marketing from home.

Again, I'm not here to defend TVG or it's owners. If they are crooks, so be it, I will join you in denouncing them. However, I have yet to see anything that disagrees with the image they present. What would be wrong with people who have been through various "dog eat dog" marketing systems, with all the baggage that entails, using their experience and talents to create a different sort of MLM system, one that will accomplish good in the world? A MLM that funds humanitarian work - what is wrong with that?

Now the point at which there may be a problem, and which may prove you right, is in the structure and product. I don't know much about MLM in general, or TVG in particular, but I haven't seen a substantive product yet. I see that it costs money to join, but other than the potential to make money convincing others to join, I don't see anything of real value.

I don't know enough about what they offer to speculate. I know they talk about the backing of companies and physical products plus services. What exactly (of value) you get for your membership dues is unclear to me. This, if anything, will be the deciding factor for me.

However, that the founder have a past history in marketing (in my mind) just makes them experienced and more competent to run this type of company. If their humanitarian effort is legitimate, that is an asset not a liability. On the other hand, if they are crooks, it will help them to be successful ones.

The question (for me) is, how does one determine if this is a legitimate humanitarian effort, or just another scam. The answer (for me) lies in the present structure and product, in what value is given to members - other than the ability to make money by recruiting new members. I think if your research efforts were focused there, it would conclusively end this discussion one way or the other. Again, I would be the first to thank you should you turn up something convincing.

[Whip]

you are not getting your money back. lol

[Fat City, LA]

Whats more likely...

A bunch of mlm types (who work money games that run out of steam once the suckers run thin) will change the world... (Helping to end world hunger, etc)

Or

Its just another $ game with monthly and/or membership comprising majority of income targeted at Christian types...

They mention advertising...Advertising is the current pyramid/ponzi keyword of the moment. (along with Bit Currency)

You need to make your own choices.
Based on your continued circular logic in your posts, whomever bought you your membership thinks your an easy mark.

[ribshaw]

Apologies, I had meant to reply yesterday, but decided to go take candy from this baby!

8541

Instead of ranting and raging on this thread, how about go back to any of the 2890 threads that are here and find the incidents where as a collective the group was wrong. In reading, you may actually learn something about how scams operate.




The critical question for the FTC is whether the revenues that primarily support the commissions paid to all participants are generated from purchases of goods and services that are not simply incidental to the purchase of the right to participate in a money-making venture. Kohm, James A. "RE: Staff Advisory Opinion - Pyramid Scheme Analysis" Federal Trade Commission.



I haven't seen a substantive product yet. I see that it costs money to join, but other than the potential to make money convincing others to join, I don't see anything of real value.

I don't know enough about what they offer to speculate. I know they talk about the backing of companies and physical products plus services. What exactly (of value) you get for your membership dues is unclear to me. This, if anything, will be the deciding factor for me.

It sounds like you answered your own question. If you toss money at every Pig in a poke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke) first and look for a product/service later your precious orphans will starve for sure.


I don't have anything invested in them, but I do have a stake in this issue.

YES, that is obvious and sorry for the loss of your friend's money.




I want to feed orphans, and they believe this may help me to do that. If it can't, I want to know. If it can, I want to feel good about being associated with something that is not only legal, but ethical and a force for good in the world.

Then I would suggest you find a well run charity and not have your money strained through 99 levels of pious greed.

Before Giving to a Charity | Consumer Information (http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0074-giving-charity)



The problem I have is that it's your word against theirs. I have no more reason to believe what you say, than to believe what they say. So, until I see some convincing evidence (one way or the other), I remain undecided.

Did anyone mention going back six months or a year and reading a few of the threads? Almost like reading tomorrow's news today.




littleroundman on your FTC Charity Warning page I don't see anywhere on there that TVG-Connect is a scam. It is also not a charity, it is a for profit company. Therefore, that page is meaningless to this topic so why post it here?

Funny, the same thing came to my mind about this link, loathing to be outdone I posted it twice. If you want to give to orphans as you claim then donate your time and/or money to the most efficient organizations out there. Unless you think all the starving children in the world will somehow be better served by showing them how to make U-Tube videos and spamming affiliate links.

Before Giving to a Charity | Consumer Information (http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0074-giving-charity)

You may actually find that people who carve out part of their time to warn others away from scams might be a bit more generous in ALL areas of life than the phonies who wave the bible with one hand while grabbing for your wallet with the other.

[Voice of Reason]

you are not getting your money back. lol

Hi Whip - perhaps that's true, but since I didn't give them any money, why would I want money back?

[Whip]

You are absolutely in this. That's why you are here to defend it - in hopes of getting your money back. Otherwise, there is no other defense for a bunch of known, proven scammers.

[Voice of Reason]

Instead of ranting and raging on this thread, how about go back to any of the 2890 threads that are here and find the incidents where as a collective the group was wrong. In reading, you may actually learn something about how scams operate.

Ranting and raving? It seems to me that it is the regular members here that have a penchant for that. Never wrong? I'm sure this group is always right, since no evidence is required to determine whether they are right or not. Conjecture and speculation is no substitute for evidence and truth.



It sounds like you answered your own question. If you toss money at every Pig in a poke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke) first and look for a product/service later your precious orphans will starve for sure.

Actually, I am unclear of what TVG connect provides of value, not because it's necessarily a "pig in a poke" but because I have been too busy to look into it. That could actually be quite well defined.



YES, that is obvious and sorry for the loss of your friend's money.

Thanks for the sentiment, I'm just not convinced it's lost yet.



Then I would suggest you find a well run charity and not have your money strained through 99 levels of pious greed.

Before Giving to a Charity | Consumer Information (http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0074-giving-charity)

Actually, I do volunteer work for a 501(c)(3) that feeds orphans. We are looking at this, to decide whether it's a legitimate funding source or not. It is cynical to assume everyone involved in marketing is driven by greed. I would venture to say a great many are, but that's all the more reason to appreciate marketers who are interested in humanitarian work.




Did anyone mention going back six months or a year and reading a few of the threads? Almost like reading tomorrow's news today.

How about staying on topic. Can anyone provide any substantial evidence against TVG in THIS thread? It's time consuming enough to keep up with the posts here, and none have been anything but cynical, skeptical rants, based on speculation. Why go back in time looking for more of the same?





Funny, the same thing came to my mind about this link, loathing to be outdone I posted it twice. If you want to give to orphans as you claim then donate your time and/or money to the most efficient organizations out there. Unless you think all the starving children in the world will somehow be better served by showing them how to make U-Tube videos and spamming affiliate links.

Before Giving to a Charity | Consumer Information (http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0074-giving-charity)

That link does not belong here since we are talking about a for profit company, not a charity. I volunteer for a legitimate charity and we are wondering if this company can provide us with a desperately needed funding source.



You may actually find that people who carve out part of their time to warn others away from scams might be a bit more generous in ALL areas of life than the phonies who wave the bible with one hand while grabbing for your wallet with the other.

No one said you were ungenerous, and I agree that it's a very useful and noble service to warn people away from scams (when they are actually scams). In fact, since I don't have the time or the skills to make such a determination, I am hoping this thread will provide a definitive verdict in the case of TVG.

If they are a scam, and you save me from their clutches, I will be the first to thank you. However, damaging a company on a humanitarian mission, with unfounded malicious accusations, is neither noble or generous. I would hope that some proper evidence be established before you condemn them.

[Voice of Reason]

You are absolutely in this. That's why you are here to defend it - in hopes of getting your money back. Otherwise, there is no other defense for a bunch of known, proven scammers.

Hi Whip, as I already explained numerous times, someone bought me a lifetime membership hoping it would help me feed the orphans I am trying to fund. They invested money - I didn't.

I haven't decided yet whether it's a good idea to attempt to fund our orphans through TVG or not, because if they are some type of scam I don't want to be associated with them, and I certainly don't want the 501(c)(3) I'm volunteering for, to be associated with them.

So, instead of just taking "potshots", could you please stay on topic. Serious allegations have been made here against TVG. I would like to know if they are based in fact, or just the idle speculations of cynics and cranks. Unless someone presents some verifiable evidence, I'm leaning toward the later.

[ribshaw]

In fact, since I don't have the time or the skills to make such a determination, I am hoping this thread will provide a definitive verdict in the case of TVG.

For someone that doesn't have a lot of time, you sure seem to have a lot of time.

On the off chance that someone I can take seriously shows up. I mentioned going back to read older threads because ALL scams work in some variation of the same way. INCLUDING HAVING SOME "NEUTRAL" THIRD PARTY SHOW UP AND QUESTION OR DEMAND PROOFS. Then you will confirm that yes in fact the people who post here are right and do know what they are doing. By the time your pretend charity "figures this out" any money pumped in will have been lost.

If you are not willing to make the slightest effort on your part to figure out why this is a scam and want us to spoon feed you like an orphan then you are in the wrong place.

Get their financial statements, contracts with vendors, legal disclosures, copies of licenses in the jurisdictions where they claim to be doing business and upload them for us to analyze.

Then we will have something to talk about, until then this is a scam and your money gone gone gone.

8545

[littleroundman]

Good, we're all agreed then,

we're all cynics and cranks.

CYA, Voice of Reason

Good luck with your donations.

[NikSam]

Actually, since you are the one bringing allegations, the onus is on you to prove that TVG connect has not met the approval of regulatory bodies. Do you have proof of that, or are you still making wild accusations?

Ha ha, do you even realize how you sound ?

I did not say they did not , i asked which.

And who they call regulator bodies. Is it gambling board, gospel herecy regulator , christian lunatics regulator or who ?

RealScam is also a regulator of some kind :)


Maybe they did get a fishing permit, i did not say they did not.

[Voice of Reason]

Get their financial statements, contracts with vendors, legal disclosures, copies of licenses in the jurisdictions where they claim to be doing business and upload them for us to analyze.



You make wild accusations without any evidence and if someone questions your claims it is up to them to supply evidence? Right - thanks for clearing that up for me. Please don't waste anymore of my time.

[Voice of Reason]

Ha ha, do you even realize how you sound ?

I did not say they did not , i asked which.

And who they call regulator bodies. Is it gambling board, gospel herecy regulator , christian lunatics regulator or who ?

RealScam is also a regulator of some kind :)


Maybe they did get a fishing permit, i did not say they did not.

Not worthy of a response...

[Voice of Reason]

Good, we're all agreed then,

we're all cynics and cranks.

CYA, Voice of Reason

Good luck with your donations.

I am giving you a chance to prove your claims. I would just like to see some evidence of impropriety, rather than malicious innuendo and baseless accusations.

However, if you wish to surmise and and put forward ugly conjecture about the people at TVG, I don't see how you can be offended if someone draws some conclusions about you and the people here.

Turnabout is fair play, is it not?

[EagleOne]

Actually, since you are the one bringing allegations, the onus is on you to prove that TVG connect has not met the approval of regulatory bodies. Do you have proof of that, or are you still making wild accusations?

No it is not our job to "PROVE" TVG has not met the approval of regulatory bodies. It is TVG's responsibility to "PROVE" they have met the approval of regulatory bodies. Further it is TVG's responsibility to "PROVE" they are legal business, not ours. The fact we point out they aren't is your "PROOF" you are seeking. I am just waiting for you to say "They are innocent until proven guilty."

Are you aware that TVG must be registered to do business in every country where they are doing business? In Canada that means all the Provinces, in the US it means all 50 states, and the same would apply to any other country that has states/provinces within their nation.

If I were you I would be asking the people behind this why their domain name registration is hidden. They are using WHOISGUARD protection out of Panama. What do they have to hide? Want to guess what percentage of real businesses to Ponzi's/ illegal pyramid schemes have their domain registration hidden/protected?

I watched the video of the promotion of this program explaining the program and it was interesting that this program is going to end world hunger and poverty. I guess this means that all the nonprofits that are currently doing these things need to shut their doors immediately, and need to get on board this great program because they have failed to end world hunger and poverty. Only TVG will be capable of doing this, right? Well, that is what they said. Of course they said a lot of things that had me truly chuckling as they contradicted themselves numerous times.

Now what is still confusing to me is this: Is this program a MLM program or not? If it is a MLM program, then the members who are involved in this must have 51% of their income come from retail sales, meaning customers not people in your upline or downline, but real customers. So this program is an epic fail just on this fact alone if it truly is promoting itself as a MLM. From all appearances this is nothing more than an endless recruiting scheme which by definition by the FTC is an illegal pyramid scheme.

It will be interesting to see Lois post all the countries that TVG is approved by the regulatory bodies. Wanna bet she just says they are and does not show any? Of course it would help to know what company name they are using since they keep jumping all around between True Vision Global and TVG Connect. Yes I am aware that TVG Connect is the marketing arm of TVG the parent company. Still at this time neither is registered to do business anywhere.

I just find it is interesting that first we had digitalincome here defending this and now you. I wonder who is going to show up next? You should also remember the old adage: You are known by the company you keep. With the likes of Ken Russo and other major Ponzi pimps promoting this program, and the founders all being involved in other illegal pyramid schemes, it is not a quantum leap to predict this is no different than all the others they ran before this that went belly up. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it is a duck.

Toss in the claiming this is blessed by God and it is just another massive affinity fraud being perpetrated on the Christian community. Sadly there are too many Christians who will fall for all this BS and it is all BS.

[NikSam]

Amazing amount of likes on TVG Facebook page for some fake charity/ money scheme who has Boy Scouts , Girls Scouts, American Express, UNICEF, 70k church leaders on board and reaches 200 countries :)

8530


Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/True-Vision-Global

Ha–Ha, the scammers are reading, the page was deleted :)

[NikSam]

...
I wonder who is going to show up next? ....

Please, please. Let it be Louis the lunatic.
Now i just have a professional interest. I would suspect a progressing schizophrenia, but need to talk with her more for diagnosis.

[EagleOne]

Amazing amount of likes on TVG Facebook page for some fake charity/ money scheme who has Boy Scouts , Girls Scouts, American Express, UNICEF, 70k church leaders on board and reaches 200 countries :)

8530


Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/True-Vision-Global

So this program reaches 200 countries. Rather odd since there are only 196 in the world. Oops!

[NikSam]

So this program reaches 200 countries. Rather odd since there are only 196 in the world. Oops!

You not counting "not recognized" countries as Nothern Osetia, Novorossiya, Sealand, etc.. ;)

[EagleOne]

You not counting "not recognized" countries as Nothern Osetia, Novorossiya, Sealand, etc.. ;)

While they may not be recognized, these fools have no clue they even exist. They just made up the number trying to make it sound more impressive.

[ribshaw]

Get their financial statements, contracts with vendors, legal disclosures, copies of licenses in the jurisdictions where they claim to be doing business and upload them for us to analyze.

Help was offered, you chose not to take it seriously.




Actually, I do volunteer work for a 501(c)(3) that feeds orphans. We are looking at this, to decide whether it's a legitimate funding source or not

Perhaps better have some of the WE show up, you seem to be the wrong person perform due diligence.


You make wild accusations without any evidence and if someone questions your claims it is up to them to supply evidence? Right - thanks for clearing that up for me. Please don't waste anymore of my time.

Sorry what "wild accusations"? Tell ya what VOR, show the class one time where a scheme like this has worked and the lion's share of anything ended up with the orphans.

Waste your time? You have been given several simple items to procure to protect your charity, purty simple.


8546

[Fat City, LA]

What a shock. No payments today=technical issues....

"Working on fixing some security and programming issues with Payment Gateway! Can't proceed until this is fixed. Will know soon we hope.
Your security is VERY important to us!!"

[NikSam]

All "leaders" got together


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pZ65eBjMvA

[Voice of Reason]

No it is not our job to "PROVE" TVG has not met the approval of regulatory bodies. It is TVG's responsibility to "PROVE" they have met the approval of regulatory bodies. Further it is TVG's responsibility to "PROVE" they are legal business, not ours. The fact we point out they aren't is your "PROOF" you are seeking....

...With the likes of Ken Russo and other major Ponzi pimps promoting this program, and the founders all being involved in other illegal pyramid schemes, it is not a quantum leap to predict this is no different than all the others they ran before this that went belly up. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it is a duck....

...Toss in the claiming this is blessed by God and it is just another massive affinity fraud being perpetrated on the Christian community. Sadly there are too many Christians who will fall for all this BS and it is all BS.

Well eagleone, I guess if TVG is not a legal business and are taking peoples money in a ponzi scheme, you should just phone the police. You should at least be able to get them for false advertising, operating a business without a license, somthing?

In fact, since you say it is run by people who were previously involved in known illegal activities, they must already be in jail and are running their current illegal operations from there.

Perhaps the reason you don't phone the police, is all you have is BS and duck quacks, instead of anything that resembles evidence to support your claims.

I wish you did have some solid evidence of impropriety, because that would settle the matter for me. I would thank-you, I really would be grateful. However, all I have seen in this thread so far is unsubstantiated allegations.

[littleroundman]

Voice of Reason seems to be operating under the illusion that any of us care whether he feels his demands are being met or that his not-so-subtle insults are having any effect.

The fact is, TVG are asking people to send them money, not REALSCAM.com (www.realscam.com)

Therefore it is incumbent on TVG to be transparent, for TVG to provide the answers VoR seeks and for TVG to ensure they comply fully with any and all regulations AND inform potential donors / members of their compliance.

Voice of Reason, do you know what a "strawman" argument is ???

You should familiarize yourself with the term - you engage in them constantly and get the results strawman arguments invariably receive.

You should at least know why you and your posts are being ridiculed and treated with disdain.

[EagleOne]

Well eagleone, I guess if TVG is not a legal business and are taking peoples money in a ponzi scheme, you should just phone the police. You should at least be able to get them for false advertising, operating a business without a license, somthing?

In fact, since you say it is run by people who were previously involved in known illegal activities, they must already be in jail and are running their current illegal operations from there.

Perhaps the reason you don't phone the police, is all you have is BS and duck quacks, instead of anything that resembles evidence to support your claims.

I wish you did have some solid evidence of impropriety, because that would settle the matter for me. I would thank-you, I really would be grateful. However, all I have seen in this thread so far is unsubstantiated allegations.

You left out that I cannot call this an illegal pyramid scheme because the courts have not ruled it to be, or was this going to be in your next post? What is telling is what you didn't address in my post not what you did respond to in my post.

You are really new at this aren't you. For your information, what makes you think we have not reported this to the federal law enforcement agencies here, but in other countries as well?

As for the other illegal pyramid schemes the founders of this program were involved in, they didn't last long enough for any law enforcement agency to even begin an investigation. Doesn't mean they weren't an illegal pyramid scheme just because they weren't charged. You are aware that many crimes are never prosecuted, but they were still crimes. Or do you believe that because they weren't prosecuted no crime was committed?

What is truly sad is that despite all your claims about wanting to know the truth, you wouldn't believe it no matter what we post. I do hope this gets big enough for the feds and other federal worldwide law enforcement agencies to shut it down and charge the people behind this. But I doubt even if that happens you will still believe it is an illegal pyramid scheme. Then you will trot out the "innocent until proven guilty" line.

You see you really should be asking all your questions to Lois and her cohorts instead of us. Since you don't believe a word any of us has presented to you, why do you care what we have to say? As littleroundman has said, all your statements are nothing more than the strawman arguments. In short terms it is a circle jerk.

As I said in the beginning of my comments to you. We don't have to prove anything to you. It is the job of TVG to prove they are real, and so far they haven't even come close. I also noticed that you conveniently didn't mention why they hide who they are with their domain registration. This doesn't bother you, or do you believe all legal companies do this? If TVG is real, why so secretive? Also you might want to get a list of all the countries where they say they have been approved to do business. You would think Lois would at least register in her own Province don't you think?

Now would you like for me to list all the strawman arguments that people like you use to post in forums like RS? It might save you some time having to look them up to know what to post next. Always glad to be of help. By the way, is this a MLM program or not?

But I will leave you with what the SEC had to say today about their investigations, and I quote:

"In a statement today, the SEC said “new investigative approaches and the innovative use of data and analytical tools contributed to a very strong year for enforcement marked by cases that spanned the securities industry.” Noting the FY 2014 pyramid-scheme actions against the MLM or direct-sales firms included allegations that the “programs” used social media and targeted immigrant communities, the SEC said its work wasn’t done." Emphasis mine. You can also substitute "affinity" for "targeted immigrant communities."

[littleroundman]

What is truly sad

What is really, really, really sad is, despite all the warnings that exist WRT charity fraud and all the deserving charities which exist today, Voice of Reason is so stuck on his own agenda, he would rather support as shady an operation as TVG on a matter of principle, than simply pick one of the squillion legal, legit, transparent charities which do exactly the same as TVG CLAIMS it is doing or will do at some time in the future.

Rather than guarantee his and / or his churches' money makes it into the mouths of the children who so desperately need it, Voice of Reason would rather take the risk with TVG and then try and offload the blame when the inevitable happens onto us.

[EagleOne]

Voice of Reason:

Since I want to help you, I was getting concerned that you were going to be running out of red-herring/strawman statements pretty soon and I didn't want you high and dry. So I have put together a list of statements (with typos and misspellings intact) said to us, from people just like you, when we said their program de jour was a Ponzi or an illegal pyramid scheme. Now I know you are going to be shocked to learn that EVERY program that we said from the beginning was a Ponzi or illegal pyramid scheme was in fact a Ponzi or an illegal pyramid scheme. Yes, and just like you they too claimed we didn't know what we were talking about and didn't provide any proof that satisfied their requirements.

I'm confident that these will be of help to you going forward so feel free to use them:


At this juncture, there is no empirical evidence for cynacism.

All the detractors have zero proof for their cynicism. These are mortals that are either jealous or have a pattern of thriving on cynicism.

I do not believe in listening to people who say such and such is a scam, without having lost a penny in it.

At the same time keep away for speculations and false predictions.

The people here have a tendency to rush to judgment and label everything a scam or Ponzi.

Much fun though, watching you making desperate stretches and majoring on minors.

Evidently you have not done your homework.

Are people really that envious of successful people that they have to start nonsense here.

The lemmings at realscam.com relish in their Cult of Uncertainty, they have ZERO EVIDENCE of scamming, and can only weakly and pathetically try to parallel other scams to it.

It is sweet beauty to me how you still provide ZERO EVIDENCE this is being a Ponzi. ZERO.

Oh, look, another non-atypical, myopic, and, inexhaustive analyis, laced with a meausre of cynicism.

Feel free to eludicate with specificity, which laws are being broken.

Posting websites that lay-out rules, does not prove anything.

With each new post, you unveil more of your thoughtlessness...and bitterness.

I say the cockroaches have certainly come out of the woodwork on this thread.

Again, all you have done is made parallels with other companies, and then extrapolate. Your "evidence" would not hold up in a court of law.


If you need more, just let me know because there are hundreds more I can provide you; and the best part is they all came from here. I hope you don't think you and digitalincome were the first ones to do this.

[Fat City, LA]

"Best Advice Ever for TVG-Connect: Find as many Pastor-MLM Leader Combos that you can find....
A Pastor that is a natural expert with network marketing will absolutely THRIVE big time with our community."

https://www.facebook.com/charlesandrade/posts/10205154952492926

[Whip]

The fact they spelled "Void" wrong from day 1 blew any potential credibility to begin with.

[littleroundman]

Anyone noticed: HYIP ponzi frauds never have a problem with payments going IN, only ever with payments going OUT ???

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/9625/oslA93.jpg

My prediction: some very kind hearted Christians are going to get a very hard lesson from this one - and it will come sooner, rather than later

[Char]

Seems ending world hunger is the hot Ponzi/MLM scam du Jour. Here's oz's latest review on something similar. Coincidence, I think not.

Hidden Hunger Global Review: HHI gets a reboot (http://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/hidden-hunger-global-review-hhi-gets-a-reboot/#comment-322481)

[Whip]

Anyone noticed: HYIP ponzi frauds never have a problem with payments going IN, only ever with payments going OUT ???

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/9625/oslA93.jpg

My prediction: some very kind hearted Christians are going to get a very hard lesson from this one - and it will come sooner, rather than later

But like void of reason said, they just want to allegedly help starving children. No need to worry about money coming back out to them. right?

[ribshaw]

What is really, really, really sad is, despite all the warnings that exist WRT charity fraud and all the deserving charities which exist today

Other than a handful of "innocents" losing money in these scams, the reality is things like TVG serve to take food out of the mouths of orphans. Especially overseas there are organizations with massive infrastructures in place that have 95% or better efficiency in getting "program items" to intended recipients. A dollar may actually buy $25 or $50 worth of food or supplies because of existing relationships they have with corporate sponsors and other charities.

Anyone can run the numbers themselves, instead of a starter pack for TVG or whatever other BS money game if they really want to feed orphans their best investment is sending the money to the places where the work is already being done efficiently.

[Voice of Reason]

There is so much posting going on here, that I don't have time to quote everyone and address everything to the degree that it deserves. However, here are the salient points in brief:

* I'm not defending TVG. You could be right, they may very well be a scam. However, before you accuse someone of a serious crime like fraud, I think you should have some solid evidence.
* There is nothing wrong with keeping domain name registration private.The largest registrar in the world, Go Daddy, recommends it for everyone. It keeps weirdos and dangerous people from knowing your address.
* Since the TVG site is brand new, glitches are to be expected. Why read anything into that? Also, since they just went live with a new site, taking down external pages is also not indicative of some sort of crime or conspiracy.
* A "straw man" argument creates the illusion of defeating an opponent's proposition, by covertly replacing it with a different proposition. I'm not doing that, I'm simply asking you to provide evidence for your position.
* I don't have money to invest in TVG even if I wanted to. The reason I am interested is this thread is simple. Someone bought me a lifetime VIP Pass, as a way to help the orphans at the 501(c)(3) I volunteer with. We give 100% of donations to orphanages under our umbrella even absorbing the banking and transfer fees. So, the problem is not that efficient infrastructure to help orphans doesn't already exist, the problem is there are not enough donations to meet the needs, Therefore, the key question I have is this - is TVG connect a legal and ethical funding source for our charity?
* I can see why you are cynical and skeptical, and I don't disagree that on the surface TVG has much in common with HYIP ponzi schemes, and affinity scams. There are certainly grounds for caution and I thank you for bringing that to my attention. However, I would like to see some convincing evidence, before I write them off as a potential funding source, or believe that the founders are lying criminals, rather than well meaning Christian humanitarians who also happen to be marketers.

[EagleOne]

Voice of Reason:

I want to address just two points from your post above.

First you said: "There is nothing wrong with keeping domain name registration private.The largest registrar in the world, Go Daddy, recommends it for everyone. It keeps weirdos and dangerous people from knowing your address."

Now stop and think about this for a minute. Just exactly what don't we know about Lois, Charles, Gustavo, and Bill because they keep their domain registration private? I know what they look like, I know their name, address, phone number. I know who their friends are, what they like to do, and the list goes on and on. So how are they protecting themselves from weirdo's by keeping the domain name registration information a secret? Of course it might be because Lois and the others do not want the public and their members to know just who is behind this program, and this party is the one who registered the domain name. What is telling with TVG is they are using a Panamanian company to protect this information. They could have used a US based company to do the same thing. You should be asking yourself why Panama. A Google search will give you the answer.

I do agree that some companies should keep their registration information private for the type of work they are doing as it would be dangerous if the wrong people discovered their information. TVG is not one of them.

Now to the most important part of what you posted. Just what do you consider "convincing evidence?" You see without defining what you mean we will never meet what you want. So please tell us what do you consider to be convincing evidence?

[littleroundman]

It doesn't matter how many times he is told the sort of "convincing evidence" he is demanding won't be found unless the fraudsters are complete rank amateurs, Voice of Reason has demonstrated he is going to persist with his arguments.

What's more, he is positioning himself so that when (not if) TVG does go belly up, it will be our fault for not providing him with sufficient "convincing evidence" to avoid losing his money.

Fraudsters love people like VoR.

They don't have to "do" anything

VoR will provide his own "what ifs" and "could bes" to explain away what are glaring warning signs for more prudent and careful donaters and then throw in a large does of "what about the starving children" just to make sure he's "right"

Experience tells us an unfortunate fact of life when dealing with fraud and fraud prevention is that some people just can't be helped, AND, it will be everyone elses' fault but theirs when the inevitable happens.

"If you had only delivered your message in a more gentle way"

"If you had only provided more concrete proof"

"If you had only offered to join hands and sing Kumbaya instead of becoming annoyed at my intransigence"

[littleroundman]

http://imageshack.com/a/img901/3023/oDzjog.jpg

FTC Consumer warning (http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0074-giving-charity)

See that ??

"SIGNS"

Not "definitive proof", not "hard facts"

"SIGNS"

[Voice of Reason]

Voice of Reason:

I want to address just two points from your post above.

First you said: "There is nothing wrong with keeping domain name registration private.The largest registrar in the world, Go Daddy, recommends it for everyone. It keeps weirdos and dangerous people from knowing your address."

Now stop and think about this for a minute. Just exactly what don't we know about Lois, Charles, Gustavo, and Bill because they keep their domain registration private? I know what they look like, I know their name, address, phone number. I know who their friends are, what they like to do, and the list goes on and on. So how are they protecting themselves from weirdo's by keeping the domain name registration information a secret? Of course it might be because Lois and the others do not want the public and their members to know just who is behind this program, and this party is the one who registered the domain name. What is telling with TVG is they are using a Panamanian company to protect this information. They could have used a US based company to do the same thing. You should be asking yourself why Panama. A Google search will give you the answer.

I do agree that some companies should keep their registration information private for the type of work they are doing as it would be dangerous if the wrong people discovered their information. TVG is not one of them.

Now to the most important part of what you posted. Just what do you consider "convincing evidence?" You see without defining what you mean we will never meet what you want. So please tell us what do you consider to be convincing evidence?

Hi Eagleone - I do appreciate your well reasoned response, thank-you.

1) I think the idea of keeping registration private, makes it just a little bit more difficult to track down physical addresses for people. If you were able to track down physical address for TVG staff, it probably took a few more steps then a simple Whois search. It's a measure of protection, but not insurmountable to someone determined - I agree. I also agree that it could be an attempt to hide something, but not necessarily so. It could be just innocent and sensible self protection.

2) I did a whois search and came up with:
Domain Name: TVGCONNECT.COM
Registrar URL: Wild West Domains (http://www.wildwestdomains.com)
Registrant Name: Lois McQuinn

That is a BBB A+ rated US registrar (not Panama).

BBB ACCREDITED BUSINESS SINCE 20/08/2002
Wild West Domains, LLC
14455 N. Hayden Road #219, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Wild West Domains (http://www.wildwestdomains.com)
BBB® Accredited Business Seal BBB® A+ Rating


3) If TVGCONNECT.COM wasn't registered to Lois McQuinn but instead a secret person in Panama, and that provided some sort of legal scam protection to the founders, I guess that would be strong circumstanical evidence that something is amiss. Is that what you are trying to allege?

4) Convincing proof for me, would be something concrete and actionable. Something that isn't speculation, innuendo, conjecture, cynicism, or conspiracy theory. Something that allows me to make a confident determination, one way or the other. It's very important for me to make the right decision, since our orphans are underfunded and if TVG is legit they may be able to help. If they are a scam, it will bring disrepute to a fledgling 501(c)(3) that many good people worked hard to bring to life, as a bonafide force for good in the world. If you can help me to make that determination, I would really appreciate it.

[Whip]

again......you need to be asking THEM for proof they are legit. They have to provide all the 'charity' information by law when you ask (you won't get any).
You can also ask them why they are dealing with known scammers and allowing it to be advertised on ponzi messageboards and why it is an alleged 'mlm' structure when it's allegedly only suppose to be about helping the helpless (as you already know - they won't answer). But you won't because you already know the answers. And why not just donate to a known legitimate one as has been recommended here? Surely that can't be deemed nefarious as you insist this site is. Expecting money back is very hypocritical at this point. Just go all in as suggested.
And why are you still here defending them if this was allegedly such a waste of your time. You are not going to change our minds about it.

[Voice of Reason]

Hi littleroundman. I think this is the 3rd time I've seen that chart in this thread. Once again I will remind you that TVG connect does not bill itself as a charity, it is a for profit business. Therefore (once again) your chart doesn't belong in this discussion.

Now if you want to put up a chart about for profit businesses, that would be appropriate. Legitimate charities are looking at TVG as a funding source, and commercial entities provide corporate sponsorship to bona fide charities everyday. It's not an unheard of concept for businesses to fund charities.

I think what makes this questionable, is it's a marketing company that is ostensibly claiming to generate humanitarian funds, and there have been so many marketing scams run, that there is quite naturally suspicion over the motives and structure. Is this a new incarnation of the affinity scam, with HYIP ponzi structure thrown ion for good measure, or is it just a bunch of good hearted marketers, who want to take their experience and put it to work in a humanitarian effort.

That is the question that confronts me, and I would like to establish the truth of the matter quickly and conclusively. Your ad hominem attacks and misplaced chart, don't really do anything to support your contentions.

[Char]

VOR, What charity are you doing this research for?

[Voice of Reason]

again......you need to be asking THEM for proof they are legit. They have to provide all the 'charity' information by law when you ask (you won't get any).
You can also ask them why they are dealing with known scammers and allowing it to be advertised on ponzi messageboards and why it is an alleged 'mlm' structure when it's allegedly only suppose to be about helping the helpless (as you already know - they won't answer). But you won't because you already know the answers. And why not just donate to a known legitimate one as has been recommended here? Surely that can't be deemed nefarious as you insist this site is. Expecting money back is very hypocritical at this point. Just go all in as suggested.
And why are you still here defending them if this was allegedly such a waste of your time. You are not going to change our minds about it.

Hi Whip... I don't think you have been reading the posts.

1) They don't claim to be a charity, they claim to be a for profit business that helps charities.
2) I'm not defending them - I am trying to make a determination as to whether or not the allegations against them are true or false.
3) Who are the "known scammers" they are dealing with? Known by who? Were they convicted of fraud? Do you just label them scammers (without any evidence) simply for being marketers?
4) In what way are these "known scammers" associated with the company? As far as I know, it is open to the general public to join or promote? I would expect the good, the bad, and the ugly to get involved - like any other commercial entity.
5) If a "known scammer" ( to be generous - a convicted one) promotes General Motors automobiles and receives affiliate commissions when he makes sales, does that make GM a scam?

I'm not raising those points to defend TVG, I'm simply asking you to clarify what you think makes them a scam.
What is your criteria, your evidence, your methodology? It doesn't seem to me, that your allegations are backed by any credible evidence.

[littleroundman]

I would like to establish the truth of the matter quickly and conclusively.

No you wouldn't.

You'd rather be "right" than be effective.

Again I say: unless fraudsters are completely and utterly inept, you will not find the sort of hard evidence you are seeking without someone gaining access to the inner workings of the scam-du-jour

You can come up with all the strawman arguments and theoretical scenarios you like and it will not alter that fact.

I'll tell you what, you give me some "hard evidence" there will be a sun in the eastern sky tomorrow morning when I wake up and I'll work doubly hard to provide the level of proof you are (unreasonably) demanding.

[Voice of Reason]

VOR, What charity are you doing this research for?

If you don't mind I would like to keep that private for now. We are a relatively new 501(c)(3). Small, underfunded, understaffed, run on a volunteer basis, and we don't have a legal team or resources to look into this.

1) I don't think any other info about our charity is relevant to the conversation.

2) If TVG Connect turns out to be a scam, I don't want our charity's name tied to it.

3) If TVG connect is legit, they could be an answer to prayer. We need funding to move forward with several programs, primarily geared to prescreened orphanages.

For those reasons, the issue is very important to me, and the desire for privacy should be understandable to even the most skeptical here.

[littleroundman]

Personally I think we should demand some verifiable hard evidence that Voice of Reason is, in fact, representing a 501(c) organization and isn't simply the trolling the forum for reasons unknown.

For someone claiming to be a charity volunteer, he certainly does an excellent HYIP ponzi player impersonation

[Voice of Reason]

No you wouldn't.

You'd rather be "right" than be effective.

Again I say: unless fraudsters are completely and utterly inept, you will not find the sort of hard evidence you are seeking without someone gaining access to the inner workings of the scam-du-jour

You can come up with all the strawman arguments and theoretical scenarios you like and it will not alter that fact.

I'll tell you what, you give me some "hard evidence" there will be a sun in the eastern sky tomorrow morning when I wake up and I'll work doubly hard to provide the level of proof you are (unreasonably) demanding.

Sorry - I don't think it is unreasonable to expect allegations of criminal activity to be based on reasonable evidence. The courts expect it also, which is why there is a difference between exercising free speech and libel.

Libel - to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others. Libel is the written or broadcast form of defamation, distinguished from slander which is oral defamation. It is a tort (civil wrong) making the person or entity (like a newspaper, magazine or political organization) open to a lawsuit for damages by the person who can prove the statement about him/her was a lie.

[Voice of Reason]

Personally I think we should demand some verifiable hard evidence that Voice of Reason is, in fact, representing a 501(c) organization and isn't simply the trolling the forum for reasons unknown.

For someone claiming to be a charity volunteer, he certainly does an excellent HYIP ponzi player impersonation

The reasons for privacy I gave to Char should be understandable to you. The fact that you make them into another conspiracy theory is very telling. It doesn't exactly lend credence to your allegations about TVG, and would constitute another reason why I wouldn't want to name the charity here. You would probably just try to maliciously malign them over some imagined issue, and attempt to destroy something good in the world.



VOR, What charity are you doing this research for?

If you don't mind I would like to keep that private for now. We are a relatively new 501(c)(3). Small, underfunded, understaffed, run on a volunteer basis, and we don't have a legal team or resources to look into this.

1) I don't think any other info about our charity is relevant to the conversation.

2) If TVG Connect turns out to be a scam, I don't want our charity's name tied to it.

3) If TVG connect is legit, they could be an answer to prayer. We need funding to move forward with several programs, primarily geared to prescreened orphanages.

For those reasons, the issue is very important to me, and the desire for privacy should be understandable to even the most skeptical here.

[Whip]

Personally I think we should demand some verifiable hard evidence that Voice of Reason is, in fact, representing a 501(c) organization and isn't simply the trolling the forum for reasons unknown.

For someone claiming to be a charity volunteer, he certainly does an excellent HYIP ponzi player impersonation

I've stuck with trolling all along. For someone that doesn't like our evidence on this little messageboard, and has stated it is wasting their time, they certainly seem set on trying convince potential marks this is legit fro some reason. They could just as easily be enjoying the big evidence to make them feel all warm and fuzzy on the usual suspect forums.

[Fat City, LA]

I've stuck with trolling all along. For someone that doesn't like our evidence on this little messageboard, and has stated it is wasting their time, they certainly seem set on trying convince potential marks this is legit fro some reason. They could just as easily be enjoying the big evidence to make them feel all warm and fuzzy on the usual suspect forums.

100% agree.
They send a simpleton and/or a crackpot who rants on and on in circular logic. LACK Of Reason fits the pattern.

[Voice of Reason]

100% agree.
They send a simpleton and/or a crackpot who rants on and on in circular logic. LACK Of Reason fits the pattern.

No one sent me, that is yet another false assumption. I am not trying to convince "potential marks" of anything, that is another wild conspiracy theory that is indicative of the quality of this forum.

Ad Hominem attacks against me, only serve to undermine the credibility of your allegations against TVG. They do nothing to prove the very serious allegations of fraud that have been made.
If there was any doubt as to whether this was a forum that should be taken seriously, I think you just removed it. Please, carry on with your insults and innuendo, they are very revealing.

[ProfHenryHiggins]

Two comments.

One, I do hope that you registered your 501(c)(3) properly. The status is not automatic for charities other than houses of worship, as I am given to understand.

Two, when one sees numerous people with a history of selectively choosing fraudulent schemes over honest ones flocking to a programme (Dottie Rogers and Noblin Porter-Hamilton have both exhibited this behavior), one can justifiably presume that there is something shady going on behind the scenes in it; an acquisition of monies by methods which are not honest.

[Fat City, LA]

No one sent me, that is yet another false assumption. I am not trying to convince "potential marks" of anything, that is another wild conspiracy theory that is indicative of the quality of this forum.

Ad Hominem attacks against me, only serve to undermine the credibility of your allegations against TVG. They do nothing to prove the very serious allegations of fraud that have been made.
If there was any doubt as to whether this was a forum that should be taken seriously, I think you just removed it. Please, carry on with your insults and innuendo, they are very revealing.

You expect us to believe someone who isnt a ponzi shill want us to point out in the TOS where it says its a scam?

You expect us to believe someone who isnt a ponzi shill expects a group who only do scams/pyramids now have a legit way to help end world hunger/suffering ?

You expect us to believe someone who isnt a ponzi shill wouldnt just read whats on here, make their own decisions and move on ?

If yes....you are a simpleton and crackpot who wants this to be real beyond being rational to the point of pathetic.
You and sadly your charity will get burned sooner than later by this "world changing Christian opportunity"

[busttheblock]

ponzi scam - nuff said!! Now move on VOR. You will not win your battle! Charles Andrade is a known ponzi scammer and has never been involved in a legitimate business.

[littleroundman]

Please, carry on with your insults and innuendo,

Oh, we will, VoR, we will.


Ad Hominem attacks against me, only serve to undermine the credibility of your allegations against TVG.

I am supremely confident our credibility will come out of this intact.

Yours, on the other hand....................................


If there was any doubt as to whether this was a forum that should be taken seriously,

There wasn't...............next childish insult, please


which is why there is a difference between exercising free speech and libel.

Exactly.

Hopefully we'll be insulting enough so that either you or one of the other TVGers is foolish enough to actually follow through with your veiled threats so we can get TVG in front of a court and allow "discovery" and the public eye to settle this once and for all.

[littleroundman]

Speaking of the Public Eye as we were:

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/4719/79gj2l.jpg

[Voice of Reason]

Well I thank you for making up my mind. The realscam.com site is not credible, your scam alert warnings about TVG are are obviously meaningless. You have labelled me a ponzi shill, and accused me of several untruths, so why should I expect anything you say about TVG connect to be true? You have provided absolutely no proof to support your contentions and appear to be cranks, cynics, and conspiracy theorists. I will be recommending to the charity I am with, to ignore your malicious attacks against TVG as libel. I bid you adieu.

[littleroundman]

I bid you adieu.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FPm79YGIiyc

[Whip]

Well I thank you for making up my mind. The realscam.com site is not credible

you decided that 24 posts ago. But you weren't here to get facts anyway.


I bid you adieu.

You'll be back. You scammers always come back. See kamanski, marsh, terry stern, etc.

[littleroundman]

Well I thank you for making up my mind. IT WAS MADE UP LONG BEFORE YOU ARRIVED HERE

The realscam.com site is not credible, IN THE OPINION OF A SINGLE RANDOM ANONYMOUS INTERNET TROLL, YOU MEAN

your scam alert warnings about TVG are are obviously meaningless. TO YOU

You have labelled me a ponzi shill, and accused me of several untruths, ERR, THAT WOULD BE BECAUSE YOU ARE ACTING LIKE ONE

so why should I expect anything you say about TVG connect to be true? AND YOUR EXPECTATIONS MATTER BECAUSE................??

You have provided absolutely no proof to support your contentions YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER AND ALL THAT

and appear to be cranks, cynics, and conspiracy theorists. YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT APPEARANCES BEING DECEIVING

I will be recommending to the charity I am with, to ignore your malicious attacks against TVG C'EST LA VIE

as libel. SUE, TVG, PLEASE SUE

I bid you adieu.

CYA, it's been nice meeting you

[EagleOne]

Voice of Reason:

While you posted the Whois record for TVGConnect, this is just the marketing arm of the parent company TVG.com, is it not? The Whois registration for TVG.com is shown as:

Domain Name: TRUEVISIONGLOBAL.COM
Registry Domain ID: 1846495537_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.enom.com
Registrar URL: eNom - domain name, web site hosting, email, registration (http://www.enom.com)
Updated Date: 2014-02-13 08:17:33Z
Creation Date: 2014-02-13 16:17:00Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2015-02-13 16:17:00Z
Registrar: ENOM, INC.
Registrar IANA ID: 48
Registrar Abuse Contact Email:
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4252982646
Reseller: NAMECHEAP.COM
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Registrant Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Registrant Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Registrant City: PANAMA
Registrant State/Province: PANAMA
Registrant Postal Code: 00000
Registrant Country: PA
Registrant Phone: +507.8365503
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +51.17057182
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: C3FB679FF441483F992CF1F09C7952A5.PROTECT@WHOISGUAR D.COM
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Admin Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Admin Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Admin City: PANAMA
Admin State/Province: PANAMA
Admin Postal Code: 00000
Admin Country: PA
Admin Phone: +507.8365503
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax: +51.17057182
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: C3FB679FF441483F992CF1F09C7952A5.PROTECT@WHOISGUAR D.COM
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: WHOISGUARD PROTECTED
Tech Organization: WHOISGUARD, INC.
Tech Street: P.O. BOX 0823-03411
Tech City: PANAMA
Tech State/Province: PANAMA
Tech Postal Code: 00000
Tech Country: PA
Tech Phone: +507.8365503
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax: +51.17057182
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: C3FB679FF441483F992CF1F09C7952A5.PROTECT@WHOISGUAR D.COM
Name Server: NS8249.HOSTGATOR.COM
Name Server: NS8250.HOSTGATOR.COM
DNSSEC: unSigned
URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/

So as I said previously, why would Lois and the other founders of this "legal" company want their domain registration information kept private? There is no reason to as all their personal information is well known.

But I tell you what: If you want "convincing proof," "credible evidence," "concrete and actionable," or "that isn't speculation, innuendo, conjecture, cynicism, or conspiracy theory," then have Lois and company sue RS, or any one of us posters here for libel. Heck I will make it easy for her to sue me for libel. She is a liar, a fraud, a crook and TVG.com/TVGConnect are illegal pyramid schemes and Ponzi's. They are asking people to invest with them, and they are not registered or licensed to sell securities which they must not only register here in the U.S., but also in every country where they are doing business.

You do agree what I said was libel, right? Then there should be no problem with her suing me. She can send her legal papers to our company. If she goes to http://eagleresearchassociates.org, that is in my signature, she will find our address as to where to send the legal documents.. I really look forward to receiving her notice of legal proceedings against me. So when Lois and company don't sue me, you should be asking yourself why not? After all this is a legal company and I have just libeled her and the company. Actually the real reasons why she won't sue me, or anyone else here for that matter, is because we have not libeled her, but also due to one single word; and that word is DISCOVERY. In case you don't know what that word means, here is a simple definition for you: I get to give an anal exam of TVG.com/TVGConnect and all the founders.

But at least you will have all your conditions met for what you say is your requirement of "convincing evidence."

[surfer]

Gotta love trolls. :crazy:

Bottom line: No legitimate non-profit would deliberately associate themselves with these types of companies if they did any research into the "business", it's founders, or it's promoters.

[littleroundman]

Gotta love trolls. :crazy:

Bottom line: No legitimate non-profit would deliberately associate themselves with these types of companies if they did any research into the "business", it's founders, or it's promoters.

Or base their decision on whether or not to join by sending someone with a demonstrable [lack of] experience or skills WRT internet, charity and affiliate fraud like Voice of Reason to troll internet forums

Added to which, there is the not-so-insignificant matter of the fiduciary responsibilities of the 501(C) and / or its' Board of Directors.

I can guarantee you, gambling donated money on an illegal HYIP ponzi fraud does NOT comply with its' charter or its' responsibilities to its' donors and members.

[Fat City, LA]

Well I thank you for making up my mind. The realscam.com site is not credible, your scam alert warnings about TVG are are obviously meaningless. You have labelled me a ponzi shill, and accused me of several untruths, so why should I expect anything you say about TVG connect to be true? You have provided absolutely no proof to support your contentions and appear to be cranks, cynics, and conspiracy theorists. I will be recommending to the charity I am with, to ignore your malicious attacks against TVG as libel. I bid you adieu.

Lack of Reason has some legit emotional issues. Odd she is putting a charity into a ponzi based on looking so stupid/classless/childish in this forum.

https://www.facebook.com/charlesandrade/posts/10205160232664927

"our regulatory bodies are encouraging a slow, steady launch "
-Who are the regulatory bodies...the Fellowship Of The Ring...Knights Of The Roundtable, etc

"ya totally the most fun of a program is getting ready for launch smoothly, LOL haha"
-For sure, cause after launch its excuses 24/7 for acting shady

[NikSam]

Actualy, here is who was on that domain before it went private (as of 2014-02-13)



Domain Name: TRUEVISIONGLOBAL.COM
Registry Domain ID: NA
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.enom.com
Registrar URL: www.enom.com
Creation Date: 2014-02-13 16:17:00Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2015-02-13 16:17:00Z
Registrar: ENOM, INC.
Registrar IANA ID: 48
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@enom.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.4252744500
Reseller: NAMECHEAP.COM
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: CARLOS CASTENEDA
Registrant Organization: N/A
Registrant Street: 542 EAGLETOWN BLVD
Registrant Street: N/A
Registrant City: TORONTO
Registrant State/Province: ONTARIO
Registrant Postal Code: M9C2T6
Registrant Country: CA
Registrant Phone: +1.4168031325
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +1.5555555555
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: IDEAGURU@HOTMAIL.COM




Same registrant as of :
teamtsunamiplan.com,
kingunikash.com,
legendaryesolutions.com,
mlmstartupkings.com,
mmo-cashout.com,
naturalbornleaderz.com,
netmc-network.com,
netmcnetwork.com,
penny-matrix.biz ,
pinoy-recruiters.biz,
adexperts.me,
267KayEar.com

[ProfHenryHiggins]

Carlos Casteneda? The infamous witch? Or just some bloke with the same name?

Also, the email ideaguru@hotmail.com maps to Charles Andrade as well, and connects to several websites promising college degrees in 5 days.

[EagleOne]

Frist we had DigitalIncome come to defend this, then Voice of Reason, now they both have left. Wonder who's next?

[ribshaw]

However, that the founder have a past history in marketing (in my mind) just makes them experienced and more competent to run this type of company. If their humanitarian effort is legitimate, that is an asset not a liability. On the other hand, if they are crooks, it will help them to be successful ones.



VOR, I know you left and are not reading this thread anymore, but for those who might actually be sitting on the fence as opposed to shills who feel their latest scam is being picked on.

Ron Popeil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Popeil) has a past history of marketing and has a true residual income from real products he created and then sold. The people who you largely are talking about are not "marketers" but are serial "recruiters" always chasing the next big thing. With few exceptions they have no "residual" income, but make money from recruiting for whatever "opportunity" they happen to be pitching and whatever job they complain about in every 5th video. There is a huge difference.

One thing people might ask themselves is does the person they are getting involved with understand the law. For instance Mike Chitty is promoting an illegal Cycler which is nothing more than a cash gifting scheme with a few crappy e-books attached to make it appear legitimate. United States Postal Service (http://www.swindles.org/tag/united-states-postal-service/)

8567

Let's see how he describes the compensation plan for TVG on his U-tube Channel. Residual Income = Endless recruiting in this world, few actually sell.

8568

If you watch the whole video there is nary a reference to selling peanut brittle door to door raise funds. No bake sales or bingo, just get 20,000 people stupid enough to send Lois McQuinn their money and you will get a monthly cut. This is the structure of an illegal pyramid, faux products or no.

Let's just play along for one second and assume this is a large product based MLM that has been around for 50 years. 95-99% will LOSE money in this arrangement to the 1% at the top, there is no other possible outcome. ERGO very little money will end up in the mouths of orphans.

Do legitimate charities want to associate on a financial or high managerial level with people who break the law by playing money games and seem really bad at fund raising math?

[Fat City, LA]

Her latest facebook postings are a disturbing combo of religion fervor and mlm hype.
I stopped reading after these two....

https://www.facebook.com/truevisionGLOBAL/posts/1528638620716668


https://www.facebook.com/truevisionGLOBAL/posts/1528281127419084

[littleroundman]

Her latest facebook postings are a disturbing combo of religion fervor and mlm hype.
I stopped reading after these two....

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/2033/fAFbP0.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/truevisionGLOBAL/posts/1528638620716668 (https://www.facebook.com/truevisionGLOBAL/posts/1528638620716668)

http://imageshack.com/a/img908/3342/tF9A2S.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/truevisionGLOBAL/posts/1528281127419084 (https://www.facebook.com/truevisionGLOBAL/posts/1528281127419084)

I know law enforcement agencies are overworked, underpaid, facing budgetary constraints and are forced to prioritize, but sometimes it would be nice if every now and then they'd bust a bunch of lowlifes like those behind True Vision Global who have stepped way over the line, even though the money involved is relatively small.

Perhaps if a full blown prosecution is out of the question, beating the offenders on the bottom of their feet with sharp sticks might be possible.

[Voice of Reason]

Frist we had DigitalIncome come to defend this, then Voice of Reason, now they both have left. Wonder who's next?



I don't know why I don't get email updates from here, but I'm supposed to be following this and see nothing. I decided to brave the idiotic claims that I am "sent here" to defend TVG, and am a ponzi shill, and all of the nonsense that discredits the legitimate things that sometimes surface here. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, so I won't rule out everything brought up just because conspiracy theorists and crackpots seem to grow here like weeds.

The fact is, I had a friend who is an experienced businessman and marketer check out TVG. What makes this interesting, is that he is also an expert with server technology.

He confirmed that CARLOS CASTENEDA is the registered name on the tvg-connect.com site. Also the truevisionglobal.com "parent" company is "hidden" as you have indicated, and probally was registered as you say to CARLOS CASTENEDA before that action. I forget which similar one I searched the other day, but it wasn't the right URL.

Not only that, he has located their server in London UK, with some strange "masking" and routing going through Germany and other European countries, with a possible link to Canada indicated. Toronto Canada is "co-inky-dink-ally" where CARLOS CASTENEDA and Charles Andrade are both allegedly residing.

I have confirmed myself that the list of highly questionable (to be kind) sites you provided is valid, I actually had it before you posted it.

teamtsunamiplan.com,
kingunikash.com,
legendaryesolutions.com,
mlmstartupkings.com,
mmo-cashout.com,
naturalbornleaderz.com,
netmc-network.com,
netmcnetwork.com,
penny-matrix.biz ,
pinoy-recruiters.biz,
adexperts.me,
267KayEar.com

CARLOS CASTENEDA and Charles Andrade are linked together on some sites, some are no longer operational, but it does appear that something may be amiss. I have also yet to find a business number for TVG, though I did several searches.

This is the type of evidence I have been looking for. Not conclusive by any means, but certainly strong enough circumstantial evidence, to at least raise some serious red flags. Actionable, in that I will halt any further involvement with them, until an adequate explanation is provided.

So for a "ponzi shill" who was "sent here to defend TVG" (as the conspiracy theory du jour of the resident crackpots would have it), why am I one of the few putting some verifiable facts on the table? Wait, maybe I'm a "double agent" working for TVG - lol.

[NikSam]

Then why Charles Andrade sometimes used email and phone of "Carlos Casteneda" ? :)

Historical whois as of 2009-04-10:


Domain name: dishnetwork-satellitetv-free.com

Registrant Contact:
n/a
Charles Andrade ()

Fax:
44 Thicket Road
n/a
Toronto, Ontario M9C2T6
CA

Administrative Contact:
n/a
Charles Andrade (ideaguru@hotmail.com)
416-803-1325
Fax: n/a
44 Thicket Road
n/a
Toronto, Ontario M9C2T6
CA

...




Domain Name: NETMC.BIZ
Domain ID: D6371416-BIZ
Sponsoring Registrar: ENOM, INC.
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 48
Registrar URL (registration services): whois.enom.com
Domain Status: ok
Registrant ID: 3BED320A30985631
Registrant Name: Charles Andrade
Registrant Organization: n/a
Registrant Address1: 44 Thicket Road
Registrant Address2: n/a
Registrant City: Toronto
Registrant State/Province: Ontario
Registrant Postal Code: M9C2T6
Registrant Country: Canada
Registrant Country Code: CA
Registrant Email: ideaguru@hotmail.com

...




Domain Name: RECVR.COM
Registrar: ENOM, INC.
Whois Server: whois.enom.com
Referral URL: http://www.enom.com
Name Server: DNS2.NEUREAL.COM
Name Server: DNS1.NEUREAL.COM
Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Updated Date: 11-apr-2005
Creation Date: 11-apr-2005
Expiration Date: 11-apr-2006

Domain name: recvr.com

Registrant Contact:

n/a
Carlos Casteneda (ideaguru_at_hotmail.com)
+1.4168031325

Fax: +1.5555555555
542 Eagletown Blvd
n/a
Toronto, ON M9C2T6
CA
...

[NikSam]

I do not know what your "expert with server technology" tried to establish.

But it is absolutely pointless to trace route their webhosting IP accounts :)

You could easily see that tvg-connect.com is hosted on www.uk2.net webhosting platform (starting £1.95 a month), (yes UK, what does it change ? if it was in china would you assume the chinese involved ?)
and truevisionglobal.com is hosted on Hostgator / websitewelcome.com US webhosting.

[Fat City, LA]

Yes, you were right and the only person on here who called it an obvious sucker play ponzi from day one.
Your very, very, rational and have no emotional, developmental, or self esteem issues.
You are not a crackpot in any way. Your clever user of bold script is the envy of the board.



I don't know why I don't get email updates from here, but I'm supposed to be following this and see nothing. I decided to brave the idiotic claims that I am "sent here" to defend TVG, and am a ponzi shill, and all of the nonsense that discredits the legitimate things that sometimes surface here. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, so I won't rule out everything brought up just because conspiracy theorists and crackpots seem to grow here like weeds.

The fact is, I had a friend who is an experienced businessman and marketer check out TVG. What makes this interesting, is that he is also an expert with server technology.

He confirmed that CARLOS CASTENEDA is the registered name on the tvg-connect.com site. Also the truevisionglobal.com "parent" company is "hidden" as you have indicated, and probally was registered as you say to CARLOS CASTENEDA before that action. I forget which similar one I searched the other day, but it wasn't the right URL.

Not only that, he has located their server in London UK, with some strange "masking" and routing going through Germany and other European countries, with a possible link to Canada indicated. Toronto Canada is "co-inky-dink-ally" where CARLOS CASTENEDA and Charles Andrade are both allegedly residing.

I have confirmed myself that the list of highly questionable (to be kind) sites you provided is valid, I actually had it before you posted it.

teamtsunamiplan.com,
kingunikash.com,
legendaryesolutions.com,
mlmstartupkings.com,
mmo-cashout.com,
naturalbornleaderz.com,
netmc-network.com,
netmcnetwork.com,
penny-matrix.biz ,
pinoy-recruiters.biz,
adexperts.me,
267KayEar.com

CARLOS CASTENEDA and Charles Andrade are linked together on some sites, some are no longer operational, but it does appear that something may be amiss. I have also yet to find a business number for TVG, though I did several searches.

This is the type of evidence I have been looking for. Not conclusive by any means, but certainly strong enough circumstantial evidence, to at least raise some serious red flags. Actionable, in that I will halt any further involvement with them, until an adequate explanation is provided.

So for a "ponzi shill" who was "sent here to defend TVG" (as the conspiracy theory du jour of the resident crackpots would have it), why am I one of the few putting some verifiable facts on the table? Wait, maybe I'm a "double agent" working for TVG - lol.

[surfer]

This is the type of evidence I have been looking for. Not conclusive by any means, but certainly strong enough circumstantial evidence, to at least raise some serious red flags. Actionable, in that I will halt any further involvement with them, until an adequate explanation is provided.

lol, so after all of your demands for "hard" evidence, you decide to avoid it based on the same type of evidence that had already been mentioned in this thread.

Alrighty then.

Congrats. :peace:

[Whip]

lol, so after all of your demands for "hard" evidence, you decide to avoid it based on the same type of evidence that had already been mentioned in this thread.

Alrighty then.

Congrats. :peace:

They were told this on page 2:


you might want to actually read the thread.

[littleroundman]

maybe I'm a "double agent" working for TVG

look - swim - quack = duck

[Voice of Reason]

I think perhaps Carlos Casteneda is a pseudonym, or an associate of Charles Andrade. Sometimes both names are on the same site.

The thing is, the company is supposed to belong to McQuinn Enterprises, a holding company of Lois McQuinn. So why isn't she the registrant? That's not in and of itself damming, but if it's legit, why register it under the name of someone who is tied to a pile of questionable (to be kind) MLM sites? That doesn't exactly instill confidence.

[Voice of Reason]

Yes, you were right and the only person on here who called it an obvious sucker play ponzi from day one.
Your very, very, rational and have no emotional, developmental, or self esteem issues.
You are not a crackpot in any way. Your clever user of bold script is the envy of the board.

You have distinguished yourself once again.. Thank you for that illuminating ad hominem attack. It really helps to establish the truth about TVG - thanks so much.

[Voice of Reason]

look - swim - quack = duck

Your astute observations are breathtaking in their simple eloquence.

[Voice of Reason]

They were told this on page 2:

Really? Where would that be because on page two I was told "your definite proof will be when people will loose their money or feds will nail them and they will not be able to show that money are earned with outside revenue but in pyramid fashion."

Also I was told "I'll say it again, the "verifiable proof" you are demanding isn't there unless we or you gain access to the inner workings and accounts of TVG."

In fact, no one did the homework on the whois and whereis until EagleOne and I did it at virtually the same time.

[Voice of Reason]

I do not know what your "expert with server technology" tried to establish.

But it is absolutely pointless to trace route their webhosting IP accounts :)

You could easily see that tvg-connect.com is hosted on www.uk2.net webhosting platform (starting £1.95 a month), (yes UK, what does it change ? if it was in china would you assume the chinese involved ?)
and truevisionglobal.com is hosted on Hostgator / websitewelcome.com US webhosting.

Wrong... and actually there is a difference when pinging IP and domain, something to do with DNS mapping. His take on it is simple. One can lie, one can mask, one can re-route, but pinging when done right will always reveal the true location. Having their server in London is not damming in and of itself. However, the unusual masking and re-routing through European countries is a bit odd for a North American based company. Why not just host here and take a direct route to a hosting account that is not obfuscated? Perhaps they have a perfectly good reason, but I would like to know what it is.

[littleroundman]

You have distinguished yourself once again.. Thank you for that illuminating ad hominem attack. It really helps to establish the truth about TVG - thanks so much.

Don't like the way you are being treated here, Voice of Reason ???

Might I respectfully suggest you go and take a long, hard look in the mirror and then look at consulting a communications expert before you start with the finger pointing.

Who knows, maybe you're a WWE wrestler on his week off, but, if you persist with your communication style, I can promise you your "charity" will be the one to suffer.

I'll say it again. Unless TVG are a bunch of amateur morons, you are not going to find the sort of definitive evidence you are "demanding"

What you possibly will find are a series of clues, but ultimately the decision is going to be up to you and / or your 501(C) if it in fact exists

* You are in no position to "demand" anything. Don't like our advice - fine - don't accept it.

We were here last week and we'll be here next week, responding the same way to any other "Voice of Reason" type belligerent, attacking poster with an over developed sense of entitlement who "demands" to have his / her requirements met.

[NikSam]

Wrong... and actually there is a difference when pinging IP and domain, something to do with DNS mapping. His take on it is simple. One can lie, one can mask, one can re-route, but pinging when done right will always reveal the true location. Having their server in London is not damming in and of itself. However, the unusual masking and re-routing through European countries is a bit odd for a North American based company. Why not just host here and take a direct route to a hosting account that is not obfuscated? Perhaps they have a perfectly good reason, but I would like to know what it is.

sorry , but you and your "expert" are full of it. First of all you cannot ping a domain, domain host is just an A record to an IP address dummy :)
There is nothing wrong where someone choses to host a site , it does not have to be in same country he is in. The price tag and perhaps other
things, as volume discount , familiar with the hosting , affiliate program for hosting, etc... are the main issues.
There is absolutely nothing wrong for you when pinging the host from US to Go through Canada, and several european countries till you reach the last hop in the datacenter in london.
There is absolutely nothing wrong for some hubs to be masked on the way, yes some routers do not like being flooded with the ICMP packets and will ignore them making it look like a hop is masked. In any case you are doing something absolutely pointless.
Did you expect a site being hosted in Charles Andrade a/k/a Carlos Casteneda bedroom?
Or you hoped Lois runs it in her garage ?

P.S. And in Future do not even attempt to school me on DNS and network protocols, some IETF RFCs standards have my name on it.

[NikSam]

... why register it under the name of someone who is tied to a pile of questionable (to be kind) MLM sites? That doesn't exactly instill confidence.

Like Lois is not tied to several "questionable" sites :)

Just Penny matrix says it all – a scammer.

[Fat City, LA]

Lack of reason=flight of ideas.
"Expert"PC friend=same expert who bought them a membership in a so obvious it insults your intelligence ponzi.

[Whip]

Really? Where would that be

You just proved once again, you have not read this thread and are just here to justify this scam. I even gave you the page number. How much lazier can you be to actually, truthfully ask that question? Your lies are piling up faster and faster. You, again, said you were leaving. Why are you still here especially if what we are saying is soooooooooo unconvincing? When can we expect the lawsuit from these jokers?

[ribshaw]

just because conspiracy theorists and crackpots seem to grow here like weeds.

The gnome on my shoulder whispered in my ear "but here she is."


I had a friend who is an experienced businessman and marketer check out TVG.

Any word on the financials, licensing, or contracts?




This is the type of evidence I have been looking for. Not conclusive by any means, but certainly strong enough circumstantial evidence, to at least raise some serious red flags. Actionable, in that I will halt any further involvement with them, until an adequate explanation is provided.

A scam would not be very good if a few inconsistencies can't be explained away with more things that are near impossible to verify. Will be looking forward to see what else you come up with, for gnome and I one red flag is one too many when it comes to sending money.

[Voice of Reason]

sorry , but you and your "expert" are full of it. First of all you cannot ping a domain, domain host is just an A record to an IP address dummy :)
There is nothing wrong where someone choses to host a site , it does not have to be in same country he is in. The price tag and perhaps other
things, as volume discount , familiar with the hosting , affiliate program for hosting, etc... are the main issues.
There is absolutely nothing wrong for you when pinging the host from US to Go through Canada, and several european countries till you reach the last hop in the datacenter in london.
There is absolutely nothing wrong for some hubs to be masked on the way, yes some routers do not like being flooded with the ICMP packets and will ignore them making it look like a hop is masked. In any case you are doing something absolutely pointless.
Did you expect a site being hosted in Charles Andrade a/k/a Carlos Casteneda bedroom?
Or you hoped Lois runs it in her garage ?

P.S. And in Future do not even attempt to school me on DNS and network protocols, some IETF RFCs standards have my name on it.

As I said already oh exalted one, my friend is the server expert not me. He runs a server company, so I guess you and he can argue about who is the most schooled. All I know is I would like to discover the truth of the matter without being subject to infantile attacks.

[Voice of Reason]

Lack of reason=flight of ideas.
"Expert"PC friend=same expert who bought them a membership in a so obvious it insults your intelligence ponzi.

Actually my friend has nothing to do with the membership bought for me and the fact that you claim he did, shows that your keen sense of the obvious is no substitute for facts.

[Voice of Reason]

You just proved once again, you have not read this thread and are just here to justify this scam. I even gave you the page number. How much lazier can you be to actually, truthfully ask that question? Your lies are piling up faster and faster. You, again, said you were leaving. Why are you still here especially if what we are saying is soooooooooo unconvincing? When can we expect the lawsuit from these jokers?

Once again. You have not told the truth and I noticed you left off the relevant part of the quote. The part that shows you to be a liar.

[Joe_Shmoe]

When can we expect the lawsuit from these jokers?


As you know the chances of a lawsuit from the scammers over at True Vision Global = 0% x ∞ :RpS_smile:

[Whip]

Once again. You have not told the truth and I noticed you left off the relevant part of the quote. The part that shows you to be a liar.

So you are daring to say what I quoted about what you were told on page 2 is NOT on page 2? really? You can quote whatever you want that someone else said. I don't care. You were responding to MY quote......not someone else's.
I quoted the ONLY relevant part. Please point out exactly where I am lying.

[Whip]

As you know the chances of a lawsuit from the scammers over at True Vision Global = 0% x ∞ :RpS_smile:

It's right up there with truthful answers from void of reason

[Voice of Reason]

Don't like the way you are being treated here, Voice of Reason ???

Might I respectfully suggest you go and take a long, hard look in the mirror and then look at consulting a communications expert before you start with the finger pointing.

Who knows, maybe you're a WWE wrestler on his week off, but, if you persist with your communication style, I can promise you your "charity" will be the one to suffer.

I'll say it again. Unless TVG are a bunch of amateur morons, you are not going to find the sort of definitive evidence you are "demanding"

What you possibly will find are a series of clues, but ultimately the decision is going to be up to you and / or your 501(C) if it in fact exists

* You are in no position to "demand" anything. Don't like our advice - fine - don't accept it.

We were here last week and we'll be here next week, responding the same way to any other "Voice of Reason" type belligerent, attacking poster with an over developed sense of entitlement who "demands" to have his / her requirements met.

No I don't like the way I am being treated. I've been accused of being a ponzi shill, a liar, a TVG defender and so on. In actuality, I am simply someone looking for the truth. It's ironic that you label me a belligerent, attacking poster, because you are one of the worst ones here.

I would agree with you that a clever and experienced scammer is probably not going to leave glaring hard evidence lying around for people to trip over. However, the demand you make that someone is to be reviled as a scammer, just because you say so (without a shred of evidence to support the allegation), is totally unreasonable.

What I am interested in, is facts that establish truth. Or at least verifiable inconsistencies and irregularities that would serve as actionable "red flags". I have found Lois McQuinn's business registration on the government of Canada website. However it is not the business number and address listed on the TVG-Connect site. The one listed on the site is:

TVG-Connect is legally owned and operated by:
101247283 Saskatchewan LTD.
505-333-3rd Ave. N
Saskatoon, SK S7K 2M2

That does not exist in the government of Canada registry, but it may be too new to be in the records yet. It does exist in the Saskatchewan Gazette, but it doesn't say who owns it - http://www.qp.gov.sk.ca/documents/gazette/part1/2014/G1201401.pdf

What does exist in a Government of Canada search is is McQuinn Enterprises, but like I say, that is not listed on the TVG-Connect site. I'm not a businessman or legal expert, so I don't know what to make of these facts, or how to search it out further. Rather than belittling me and labelling me a belligerent ponzi pimp, perhaps you could put the same energy into establishing the facts.

Server error (http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/ccc/srch/nvgt.do?lang=eng&prtl=1&profile=cmpltPrfl&V_TOKEN=1414001447190&V_SEARCH.command=navigate&V_SEARCH.docsStart=1&V_SEARCH.resultsJSP=/prfl.do&V_DOCUMENT.docRank=1&V_SEARCH.docsCount=3&estblmntNo=234567097611&profileId=)

8579

[Whip]

I am simply someone looking for the truth.

Because you are a liar. You have clearly stated you don't believe what is posted on this messageboard so you certainly can't be looking for the truth. The truth is here. Just because you don't want to see it doesn't make it any less true. But we know you are not here for that.

[Whip]

Here is a perfect example of the way a scam works and is run by known scammers. As LRM said, if it didn't look like a legitimate business, it wouldn't be a very good scam now would it? Note the date of the first post:

http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4971

[Voice of Reason]

The gnome on my shoulder whispered in my ear "but here she is."

Any word on the financials, licensing, or contracts?

A scam would not be very good if a few inconsistencies can't be explained away with more things that are near impossible to verify. Will be looking forward to see what else you come up with, for gnome and I one red flag is one too many when it comes to sending money.

Well, actually I did come up with the business number. I posted that above. The financials, licensing, and contracts are out of my league, I don't understand legalese and bean counter stuff. If some of that stuff turns up, I hope someone here could put it in layman's terms, without insisting on another aggravating round of insults.

[Voice of Reason]

Because you are a liar. You have clearly stated you don't believe what is posted on this messageboard so you certainly can't be looking for the truth. The truth is here. Just because you don't want to see it doesn't make it any less true. But we know you are not here for that.

Well what am I here for - do tell - what is the conspiracy theory du jour?

[Voice of Reason]

Here is a perfect example of the way a scam works and is run by known scammers. As LRM said, if it didn't look like a legitimate business, it wouldn't be a very good scam now would it? Note the date of the first post:

http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4971

All well and good but what has any of that got to do with TVG?

[Voice of Reason]

It's right up there with truthful answers from void of reason

Yet another less than helpful post belittling me and doing nothing to establish the truth with facts.

[Whip]

All well and good but what has any of that got to do with TVG?

it will go the same route. Prove it won't.

[Whip]

Yet another less than helpful post belittling me and doing nothing to establish the truth with facts.

aw.....poor baby. Thought you were leaving? Thought you were looking for the truth? Since you insist it's not here, why do you keep thinking it will magically appear? Where else have you allegedly "looked for the truth"? Why do you keep lying? You lied even before making a post by choosing the username that you did. lol. Don't get upset at us just because we catch you in your lies.

[Fat City, LA]

Well what am I here for - do tell - what is the conspiracy theory du jour?

Odds are your just out of a mental health facility. Been a long time since someone embarrassed themselves on here at your level.

[ribshaw]

Well, actually I did come up with the business number. I posted that above.

Here is my take on Mcquinn Enterprises and I don't know anything about Canadian law. So I could completely misunderstand the legal structure.

If I decided I wanted to sell juice, hold rental property, internet retail, and save the world with charitable work, for tax and legal protection reasons I would use separate entities. For charitable endeavors I would set up a not for profit for the obvious tax reasons.

All this seems a little http://www.realscam.com/f11/donald-alan-kernan-jr-dreamertopia-challenges-realscam-2771/ like resume stretching to me. Not a "slam dunk" by any means but when it comes to sending money a few things should add up.

This again is why I suggested you read through a few of the older threads.

Its a bit like this, you are outside a casino and a "drunk" comes up with a handful of chips claiming he just got kicked out. If you go in and cash them for him he will give you a cut.

That scam as all the elements of TVG, a plausible story, appeal to good, and greed.






The financials, licensing, and contracts are out of my league, I don't understand legalese and bean counter stuff. If some of that stuff turns up, I hope someone here could put it in layman's terms

We don't even have a product yet, joking with the financials as you will never get them in a scam. At least not ones you can independently verify. The contracts especially are easy enough to verify. McQuinn has claimed all these charities are on board, find out who they are and start making some calls. Find out just what they think they are on board for, if they have even heard of her at all I would be shocked.

FBI — Foundation for New Era Philanthropy (http://www.fbi.gov/philadelphia/about-us/history/famous-cases/famous-cases-foundation-for-new-era-philanthropy)

Also don't kid yourself, the churches are filled with any number of Ponzi schemes, some at the highest levels. One of the easiest ways to run a scam is on like minded group with the blessing of the leader.





, without insisting on another aggravating round of insults.

You had to see it coming just with your screen name alone. As if justlogicnohate were back.



Don't get me wrong - I'm not here to defend TVG, I think one of their 4 owners should do that and also press charges for slander if what is being said in this thread is not true. That being said, the issue is simply this - are the accusations and insinuations true, or just the vain speculations of cynical minds and the sour grapes of disgruntled former members?

I haven't seen anything that would constitute hard evidence in this thread, so there is no basis on which to make a determination, other than rants based on personal opinion and speculation.


I think the issue with this is people are generally not that intelligent so they don't understand how FlexKom works. So in other words dumb people wont get it. That is why there are so many clueless people on this blog. http://www.realscam.com/f8/flexkom-aka-flexcom-legitimate-mlm-scam-1862/

If you had come in with a better opening, sans the lawsuit jibberjabber, things might have gone a little more swimmingly.

Its like mom used to say:

8583

[NikSam]

...
What I am interested in, is facts that establish truth. Or at least verifiable inconsistencies and irregularities that would serve as actionable "red flags". I have found Lois McQuinn's business registration on the government of Canada website. However it is not the business number and address listed on the TVG-Connect site. The one listed on the site is:

TVG-Connect is legally owned and operated by:
101247283 Saskatchewan LTD.
505-333-3rd Ave. N
Saskatoon, SK S7K 2M2

That does not exist in the government of Canada registry, but it may be too new to be in the records yet. It does exist in the Saskatchewan Gazette, but it doesn't say who owns it - http://www.qp.gov.sk.ca/documents/gazette/part1/2014/G1201401.pdf

What does exist in a Government of Canada search is is McQuinn Enterprises, but like I say, that is not listed on the TVG-Connect site. I'm not a businessman or legal expert, so I don't know what to make of these facts, or how to search it out further. Rather than belittling me and labelling me a belligerent ponzi pimp, perhaps you could put the same energy into establishing the facts.




If you need a detailed info on a Saskatchewan corporation
you can get it here, it might not be a free request (depends on the depth of information you are looking for): https://www.isc.ca/CorporateRegistry/Pages/FindInformationRegisteredEntities.aspx

Federal Canadian company registry does not include provincial entities who claim to do business only inside the province.

[littleroundman]

The financials, licensing, and contracts are out of my league,

Why are you messing around with fringe stuff when we have said over and over, they are only clues, not proof ??

Banners Broker was first mentioned and pegged as a fraud here in October 2011.

It had all the required licenses, accounts, offices and contracts anyone could ever "demand" The fraudsters behind it maintained very public profiles, just as the fraudsters behind TVG are doing. Banners Broker had a physical address/es, bank accounts, seemingly independent verification of its' legitimacy, just like TVG.

The court documents "proving" Banners Broker was a fraud were posted on the forum in October this year as in: 2014

Which means, in the "World according to Voice of Reason" logic, Banners Broker wasn't a fraud until 2014

Oh, and, as is the way with online frauds and fraudsters, Banners Broker had a large number of "Voice of Reasons" who graced REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com) with their presence, presenting the same tired arguments you are, using the same false logic and throwing the same juvenile insults as you, so none of this is new or unusual.

True Vision Global is a fraudulent operation, whether you believe it or not - end of.

[Voice of Reason]

If you need a detailed info on a Saskatchewan corporation
you can get it here, it might not be a free request (depends on the depth of information you are looking for): https://www.isc.ca/CorporateRegistry/Pages/FindInformationRegisteredEntities.aspx

Federal Canadian company registry does not include provincial entities who claim to do business only inside the province.

Thank you, that might actually turn out to be useful.

I asked my businessman friend today, is a delay possible before they show in the government registry, and he said no - it should be instant. They are also not restricting themselves to the Province, they claim to operate globally, so I would expect federal registration.

So I am left with the fact that the posted business number is not showing in the federal registry, but all indications are it should be, if legit.

[Voice of Reason]

Why are you messing around with fringe stuff when we have said over and over, they are only clues, not proof ??

Banners Broker was first mentioned and pegged as a fraud here in October 2011.

It had all the required licenses, accounts, offices and contracts anyone could ever "demand" The fraudsters behind it maintained very public profiles, just as the fraudsters behind TVG are doing. Banners Broker had a physical address/es, bank accounts, seemingly independent verification of its' legitimacy, just like TVG.

The court documents "proving" Banners Broker was a fraud were posted on the forum in October this year as in: 2014

Which means, in the "World according to Voice of Reason" logic, Banners Broker wasn't a fraud until 2014

Oh, and, as is the way with online frauds and fraudsters, Banners Broker had a large number of "Voice of Reasons" who graced REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com) with their presence, presenting the same tired arguments you are, using the same false logic and throwing the same juvenile insults as you, so none of this is new or unusual.

True Vision Global is a fraudulent operation, whether you believe it or not - end of.

So you have a success story, probably several, where your psychic predictions came true. I don't doubt that for a second, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Success stories are used by weight loss companies and snake oil salesmen, so you will forgive me if I don't take your success story as evidence that you are always right, or are right this time.

However, I will acknowledge that you have a history of looking into these types of companies, and probably know a thousand times more than I do in this area. Also, I have never denied that there is a good possibility you are right. There are some "red flag" issues that surfaced recently, which at least circumstantially support your assertions. I especially find the Carlos Casteneda name on the website registration questionable due to it's past associations. The recruitment oriented 3 by 9 Matrix is typical of ponzi pyramid type MLM scams, and the humanitarian/Christian aspect could possibly be interpreted as an "affinity" scam.,

That being said, I want as many verifiable facts established as possible. Soon, I am going to have to advise some very hopeful orphanage leaders in my purview. Either that this is a false hope and avoid it for the following reasons, or these marketers may have swum through the sewers, but they are clean now and trying to do the right thing.

If they are "crooks" I don't want them using these kids in an "affinity scam" to make themselves look credible and humanitarian. If they are not (or no longer) crooks, I don't want kids starving because I made a wrong call. Do you see my dilemma and why I push so hard for something tangible and decisive?

[littleroundman]

Do you see my dilemma and why I push so hard for something tangible and decisive?

No.

There is no dilemma, just as there is going to be nothing "tangible and decisive" enough to satisfy your [uneducated in the way of online fraudsters] criteria

You are what is commonly referred to in sales as a golden eagle.

As in: "I didn't have to do anything, a golden eagle flew down and landed on my shoulder today"

You are a fraudsters' dream.
Register a business name, give an address, obtain a license. Doesn't matter if it's a relevant license, as long as a license exists. Put your pic online, because fraudsters would never put their pic online. Say it is for starving children. Make up a story about your successful history.

BINGO !!!

Several thousand "Voice of Reasons" will fall over themselves to get out their wallets and do your recruiting for you by "accidentally" coming onto forums such as REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com) speaking out on your scam du jours' behalf and even volunteering personal testimonials.

Your attempted insults and shaming us have all been done before, ad infinitum, ad nauseum

If you want to gamble with your charities' money, there is very obviously nothing we or anyone else can do to stop you,

Enjoy.

[littleroundman]

So you have a success story, probably several, where your psychic predictions came true.

I refuse to believe you are as stupid as you appear in making out you missed the point of mentioning Banners Broker and instead chose to believe you are being deliberately obtuse, which, given your past performance, won't be a stretch for any of the readers to believe.


I want as many verifiable facts established as possible.

Why don't you ring them and ask them if they're legit ??

After all, fraudsters wouldn't lie, deceive, cheat, forge, fake, mislead or misdirect or cheat "the kiddies" would they ???

Of course, you could have the capacity of the team from NCIS and all you have to do is tap a few keys and write a few algorithms and all would be revealed.

Or,

you could get lucky and the fraudsters behind True Vision Global may turn out to be completely inept first timers and they will be like Hansel and Gretel and have left a trail of clues behind them.

Or

you could swallow your pride, realize we do know more than you when it comes to fraud and fraudsters and advise your fellow (coff) 501(c) board members (coff) it would be immoral, unethical and foolish in the extreme to place charity funds at risk.

Nah,

what was I thinking ???

you'd rather be "right"

[EagleOne]

Voice of Reason:

Let me put some things into perspective for you. As littleroundman has already said you are not the first to post as you have here. You see, we could list 300 of these programs that we said were Ponzi's, an illegal pyramid scheme, or illegal cash gifting from the very beginning of their launch; but your response (as it is with everyone else in your mindset) would be this "one" is different, you cannot make the same claims based on what happened with the others, you are comparing apples to oranges, etc. etc... We have heard this ad nauseam over the last 10+ years.

Some of the type of proof you are seeking will only be revealed in a court of law if the Feds bring civil and/or criminal charges against Lois and crew. A lot is just using common sense and you know it is not real. Contrary to others opinions, many of us posting here do know what we are talking about because we have seen it over and over and over. We've heard it all before: the we don't know what we are talking about, we don't understand the program as only the admins know how it all works, only a court of law can determine if it is a Ponzi or not, innocent until proven guilty, we have an agenda, if this is a Ponzi what about Social Security as it is the biggest Ponzi of them all, all the name-calling, you get my point. So you will have to forgive us when we see someone posting as you have because we think: Oh no, here we go again.

For this to be legal, Lois has to register this company to do business in every country in which they will be doing business BEFORE they start doing business. She hasn't, but more importantly can't. The country registration agency would not approve them in their present business format. You have to understand there is a big difference between registering a business name, and registering to do business. All she has done is register the business name.

Hopefully this has helped you understand better from where many of us are coming from, as it is from at least a decade of experience. We have basically seen it all, and despite all their claims, there is nothing new. It is nothing more than a new dress and lipstick on the same pig making people think it is a new pig.

[littleroundman]

One wonders why True Vision Global finds it necessary to have a closed group on Facebook

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/7900/pDPcD7.jpg

Couldn't be trying to hide something, by any chance, could they, seeing they are usually so open and transparent.

[littleroundman]

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/2076/JbTAi0.jpg

[littleroundman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLCx49nDDI0n4FC7o-gvKP1qbiPiIpIQWF&feature=player_detailpage&v=WUln0 1KUivY

True Vision Global (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUln01KUivY&list=PLCx49nDDI0n4FC7o-gvKP1qbiPiIpIQWF&index=1) on YouTube

[littleroundman]

* Avoid Charity Fraud | Federal Trade Commission (http://www.ftc.gov/charityfraud)Information to help donors give wisely. Site includes: List of cases filed by the FTC; complaint form; "Charitable Donations: Give or Take?", a checklist to use in order to avoid contributing to fraudulent charities; and links to other charity-monitoring organizations.


* Exempt Organization Select Check | IRS (http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=249767,00.html)Online search tool that allows users to select an exempt organization and check information re: its eligibility to receive tax-deductible charitable contributions; automatic revocation of tax-exempt status for not filing 990s; whether it has filed a Form 990-N.


InfoTax | Tax Analysts (http://www.taxanalysts.com)Tax Analysts' Exempt Organization Master List (EOML) provides information on all exempt organizations required to file with the IRS applications for recognition of exemption and annual information returns. Check your nearest Foundation Center library for free access to this database.


* BBB Wise Giving Alliance (http://www.bbb.org/us/charity/)Collects and distributes information on hundreds of nonprofit organizations that solicit nationally or that have national or international program services. Site includes: Charity Reports and Standards; Tips on Giving; and an online process to file an inquiry or complaint about a charity.


Great Nonprofits (http://greatnonprofits.org)Allows you to read firsthand reviews by a nonprofits' clients, volunteers, and other stakeholders.


* Internet Fraud Watch | National Fraud Information Center (http://www.fraud.org/internet/intinfo.htm)Provides a toll-free number and online complaint form to report suspected fraudulent activity.


Charity Checklist | Federal Trade Commission (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt114.shtm)The Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the nation's consum*er protection agency, recommends taking these precautions to ensure that your donation dollars benefit the people and organizations you want to help.


Grant Fraud [PDF] | US Government (http://grants.gov/assets/GrantFraud.pdf)Information on grant fraud from the US government.


Dealing with fraud or abuse | Idealist.org (http://www.idealist.org/info/Nonprofits/Wrong1)Advice on how to deal with suspicions of wrongdoing in nonprofit organizations (signs of mismanagement, improper payments, insider self-dealing, conflict of interest, etc.).


Abuses in Fundraising | Idealist.org (http://www.idealist.org/info/Nonprofits/Wrong2)Provides tips on giving and information about ethical fundraising.


* How Do You Report Suspected Tax Fraud Activity? | IRS (http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=106778,00.html)If you suspect or know of an individual or organization that is not complying with the tax laws, you may report this activity by completing Form 3949-A.


State Charitable Solicitation Authorities | Harbor Business Compliance (https://www.harborcompliance.com/information/authority/attorney-general-charities.php)This table provides contact information for the agency in each state that monitors charitable solicitation by nonprofit organizations or fundraising consultants.


* National Association of State Charity Officials (NASCO) (http://www.nasconet.org/documents/u-s-charity-offices)Links to state offices that regulate charitable organizations and charitable solicitations.

[surfer]

Well I thank you for making up my mind. The realscam.com site is not credible, your scam alert warnings about TVG are are obviously meaningless. You have labelled me a ponzi shill, and accused me of several untruths, so why should I expect anything you say about TVG connect to be true? You have provided absolutely no proof to support your contentions and appear to be cranks, cynics, and conspiracy theorists. I will be recommending to the charity I am with, to ignore your malicious attacks against TVG as libel. I bid you adieu.

Shills, trolls, scam defenders etc., also tend to have trouble keeping their word when they huff off after insulting the members of anti-scam sites. Quite often, they only completely disappear after their scam has either lost steam or collapsed.

Anyone that actually cares enough to peruse this and other anti-scam sites will easily see that the accuracy is far better than your stopped clock insult/analogy.

As LRM has conveyed to you numerous times in his typical kind-hearted, soft-spoken, comforting manner, unless a scam is run by completely inept clowns, the only type of evidence you will typically uncover is circumstantial. And totally inept scammers and their scams will rarely survive long enough to make it to the pages of anti-scam sites. The scams that you generally find on sites like this are usually well run and cover their asses pretty well.

We, including you, don't need hard evidence to decide something is a scam. This isn't a jury trial, more like a jury of common sense.

If a so-called "business" is promoted by individuals(we call them scammers, you can call them whatever you wish) who have an established history of promoting program after program that either collapses or is shut down by the authorities, that is a huge red flag.

If this business is also promoted on well-known ponzi/pyramid/hyip promotion sites like TG, MMG, etc., that is also a huge red flag.

If the business isn't mostlly transparent and open about it's operations, the backgrounds of it's executives, it's financials, etc., especially a business that claims to be doing charitable work....yep, another red flag.

TVG fails on all 3 of those fronts and that's really all any sensible individual researching should need to know in order to decide to avoid it, especially if they are claiming to represent a legitimate non-profit.

Many of the regulars here have at least a decade or more of experience in calling out these scams and the bottom feeders who promote them.

Our individual experiences and expertise predates the creation of realscam.com a short 4+ years ago.

Believe us or don't believe us. Years of dealing with scammers tends to create a pretty thick skin.

Obstinate individuals like you don't really matter much to us. You refuse to see the forest for the trees. Nothing we can do about that.

The people we truly reach and help protect are most likely those who never bother posting. They are the people who have friends, family, or online acquaintances who approach them with these too good to be true scams, do a search on google and see enough to know that what they were told was not the whole truth. The smart/honest ones move on and avoid getting involved in the scam. Those are the people we care about.

So, do whatever the hell you feel like doing.

Hey, if you get your non-profit involved with the right scam at the right time, you might even stumble into a temporary windfall of cash. Of course, it all comes from victims who didn't time it right, but oh well.

Good luck.

[littleroundman]

I guess we can expect those lawsuits and lawyers' letters to start flooding in any second:

http://imageshack.com/a/img633/8342/6W9x5C.jpg

[littleroundman]

Thank you, that might actually turn out to be useful.

I asked my businessman friend today, is a delay possible before they show in the government registry, and he said no - it should be instant. They are also not restricting themselves to the Province, they claim to operate globally, so I would expect federal registration.

So I am left with the fact that the posted business number is not showing in the federal registry, but all indications are it should be, if legit.


As a means of determining

1) whether or not a business is legitimate

and

2) whether it protects customers,

incorporation means very little.

In fact, it protects the incorporated bodies' shareholders, employees and owners more than "victims" unless criminal activity is involved.


The best way to understand a corporation is to imagine it as a separate artificial person (with limited rights and privileges). Incorporating a business is essentially creating that separate person thereby making the business separate from the owner (in a sense, the business has a life of its own).

As a separate entity, the corporation exists independent from the shareholders/owners and its employees. Regardless of what happens to the shareholders, or the directors, or the employees, the corporation itself continues to exist in perpetuity until a time the directors and shareholders decide to dissolve a corporation. In a sole proprietorship or general partnership where the owner(s) is the business, what affects the owner may affect the business.

Any personal debt or liability of an owner or partner allows the creditor(s) to pursue the assets of the business whether or not the debt or liability has any relation to the business itself. Furthermore, personal bankruptcy of an owner or partner will directly impact a business by opening up its assets to any creditors the owner or partner is liable to.

By incorporating a business, the personal finances of an owner or partner remains separate from the finances of the corporation and allows the business to continue without disruption. In the event of an unfortunate death of an owner or partner, the business is generally dissolved regardless of the wishes of the owner or partner(s). All of this could easily be avoided by incorporating the business as a separate entity.

Likewise with the commonly used term "registered business"

A business may very well be registered - but, to do what ??

Certainly not to commit fraud or carry out illegal activities.

NOT having valid registration is a definite red flag, however, the mere fact a business is "incorporated" or "registered" means little or nothing when carrying out in depth due diligence.

[littleroundman]

As you know the chances of a lawsuit from the scammers over at True Vision Global = 0% x ∞ :RpS_smile:


Unfortunate, but true.

As with all of these shady operators and fraudsters we can expect a large amount of huffing and puffing and an even larger amount of posturing, but very little else

We can only live in hope one day one of them is silly enough to follow through and actually get their allegations in front of a court.

[Whip]

Some of the type of proof you are seeking will only be revealed in a court of law if the Feds bring civil and/or criminal charges against Lois and crew.

Well, he could get them to sue us and speed up the 'discovery' process so we can make the necessary corrections. lmao!

[Blue Wolf]

You'll be back. You scammers always come back. See kamanski, marsh, terry stern, etc.

And you were right.

Funny how they like to say the same thing.

[Whip]

And you were right.

Funny how they like to say the same thing.

lol. Must be my wacky psychic abilities. Nothing to do with watching jokers like this on a daily basis.
I really think these idiots think we'll beg them to stay. Otherwise, they would just leave without the big look-at-me announcement.

[Voice of Reason]

Well you guys are certainly a mixed bag this time around. First of all, I want to thank Eagleone and LittleRoundman for actually disseminating some useful advice and information without stooping to insults. However, I also see some others still going on with infantile attacks and now you've gone back to that again littleroundman. Just when you start to sound somewhat credible, you discredit yourself all over again with this nonsense - why? Can we just focus on the relevant facts?

Going back to the issue of this thread, I must agree that legal incorporation (whatever else it means) is no guarantee that a business is legit or ethical. However, lack of legit registration when it is claimed, would certainly indicate a problem. I still can't find 101247283 Saskatchewan LTD. in he Government of Canada registry, unless I'm doing something wrong. Does anyone here care to try it for confirmation purposes?

Also, someone here said there is a difference between registering the name of a business and being licensed for business. Could someone here elaborate on that concept a little for me?

[NikSam]

Well you guys are certainly a mixed bag this time around. First of all, I want to thank Eagleone and LittleRoundman for actually disseminating some useful advice and information without stooping to insults. However, I also see some others still going on with infantile attacks and now you've gone back to that again littleroundman. Just when you start to sound somewhat credible, you discredit yourself all over again with this nonsense - why? Can we just focus on the relevant facts?

Going back to the issue of this thread, I must agree that legal incorporation (whatever else it means) is no guarantee that a business is legit or ethical. However, lack of legit registration when it is claimed, would certainly indicate a problem. I still can't find 101247283 Saskatchewan LTD. in he Government of Canada registry, unless I'm doing something wrong. Does anyone here care to try it for confirmation purposes?

Also, someone here said there is a difference between registering the name of a business and being licensed for business. Could someone here elaborate on that concept a little for me?

101247283 Saskatchewan LTD is not a Federal corporation, just a name of it says it, i told you to get its complete profile from Saskatchewan for $3.

I would do it myself but I am greedy to pay even $3 for it, there is no point for me if it is registered or not and on whom, does not change a thing.

registering name. license for business , etc ?

Let just say, some jurisdictions let you reserve a name for a future business expansion, for very cheap.
There were several scams who did just that for cheap , mostly in Australia and in NZ, people find their name in registry and think it is some real company.
In case of 101247283 Saskatchewan LTD, it is not just a reserved name, it is a numbered company, just like a PO Box. They can pay a fee and rename it later.

Let just say to be able to conduct business in US, you also would need to apply for a federal tax id (EIN)
And be rincorporated in one of the states, if you open an office or hire an employee in another state, you would have to incorporate there as well or apply for a foreign recongnition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_corporation). Some states like WA require to get a generic business permit on top of incorporation, which is dumb, but its their law.


As for licenses, everybody knows that incorporation is just it, does not give you right to conduct regulated activities.
For example, if you open a company named "Voice Of Reason Dentistry" , it does not give you the right to work as a dentist in that state, you need a dentist state license for that.

Same applies for soliciting and collecting funds from the general public, if your corporation offers returns on investment you must get a state and a federal license. If you are a bank, than national bank license.
If you collect public donations, you must get a non-profit recognition from IRS and after that from the state.

Is it clear now ?

[littleroundman]

My local deli is "registered" and proudly displays its' registration certificate on the wall. which, by the way, is required by law in Oz.

It is NOT, however, registered or licensed to carry out any form of business it likes, PARTICULARLY any business which involves securities, money transfers, passive earning, money lending or, indeed, anything which could be construed as money services

[littleroundman]

Just when you start to sound somewhat credible, you discredit yourself all over again with this nonsense

Believe me, if being discredited in the eyes of Voice of Reason, or anyone with a similar attitude and lack of communications skills is the worst thing that happens to me in 2014, I'd say I'm in for a bloody good year.

Likewise, if being liked by every poster who decides to act like Voice of Reason was the aim of REALSCAM.com (www.realscam.com) we would never have made it past year 1 or steadily increased our membership ever since.

[NikSam]

The yesterday Hangout


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEt22SN9CJo

[EagleOne]

Voice of Reason:

In the US, there is a simple 3 question test that determines if a program is offering an investment/securities regardless of what they claim they are doing. This simple 3 question test is called the Howey Test and was a ruling made by the US Supreme Court in 1946. This ruling still stands today. The 3 questions are:

(1) Are you investing money in a common enterprise?
(2) Do you have the expectation of profit? and
(3) Does the profit arise primarily from the efforts of people other than the investor?

If you answered yes, then the company is selling securities/investments and they must be registered with the SEC and someone in the organization needs to be a licensed and registered broker with FINRA. Once the registration is completed with the SEC, then the company must register in every state in which they will have people in their program. In the UK, they must be registered with Companies House and FSA, in Australia it is the ASIC, and in Canada they have to be registered and licensed in every Province with their Securities Division.

There have been many programs that said you were not investing but buying advertising and getting paid to click by viewing websites. All either ran with the money or were shut down by the Feds for selling unregistered securities/investments.

So ask yourself, does TVG (not TVGConnect) meet the Howey Test? TVGConnect is just the marketing arm for TVG, so it is TVG that has to be evaluated to determine if the Howey test applies. If you answered yes to the questions, it is an investment and all licensing and registration I mentioned must be done.

[NikSam]

That "chairman" and "co-owner" in hangout video who called himself Bill Anderson is perhaps related to William R "Bill" Anderson Jr (http://www.linkedin.com/in/wiland697)

[Whip]

Still waiting on an answer to this:


So you are daring to say what I quoted about what you were told on page 2 is NOT on page 2? really? You can quote whatever you want that someone else said. I don't care. You were responding to MY quote......not someone else's.
I quoted the ONLY relevant part. Please point out exactly where I am lying.

and this:


aw.....poor baby. Thought you were leaving? Thought you were looking for the truth? Since you insist it's not here, why do you keep thinking it will magically appear? Where else have you allegedly "looked for the truth"? Why do you keep lying? You lied even before making a post by choosing the username that you did. lol. Don't get upset at us just because we catch you in your lies.

I mean, you weren't lying again when you said there were no evidence on this messageboard that you seem content on staying on even though we allegedly have no real answers to your questions right?

[Voice of Reason]

101247283 Saskatchewan LTD is not a Federal corporation, just a name of it says it, i told you to get its complete profile from Saskatchewan for $3.


Is it clear now ?

Thank-you, that is very helpful. I am ignorant in these matters, so that brings a little clarity. Much appreciated.

[Voice of Reason]

Believe me, if being discredited in the eyes of Voice of Reason, or anyone with a similar attitude and lack of communications skills is the worst thing that happens to me in 2014, I'd say I'm in for a bloody good year.

Likewise, if being liked by every poster who decides to act like Voice of Reason was the aim of REALSCAM.com (www.realscam.com) we would never have made it past year 1 or steadily increased our membership ever since.

Less than helpful. Please, can we move past the level of ego and deal with the facts. This is not "academic" to me, I take charity work very seriously and I don't want to see kids starving if I make a bad call. I also don't want to see organizations that have worked long and hard with complete integrity, have their reputations destroyed by association with fraudulent activity.

There may be grave consequences one way or the other, so if it helps I apologize if I offended you, can we just move on to establishing the relevant facts.

[Voice of Reason]

Voice of Reason:

In the US, there is a simple 3 question test that determines if a program is offering an investment/securities regardless of what they claim they are doing. This simple 3 question test is called the Howey Test and was a ruling made by the US Supreme Court in 1946. This ruling still stands today. The 3 questions are:

(1) Are you investing money in a common enterprise?
(2) Do you have the expectation of profit? and
(3) Does the profit arise primarily from the efforts of people other than the investor?

If you answered yes, then the company is selling securities/investments and they must be registered with the SEC and someone in the organization needs to be a licensed and registered broker with FINRA. Once the registration is completed with the SEC, then the company must register in every state in which they will have people in their program. In the UK, they must be registered with Companies House and FSA, in Australia it is the ASIC, and in Canada they have to be registered and licensed in every Province with their Securities Division.

There have been many programs that said you were not investing but buying advertising and getting paid to click by viewing websites. All either ran with the money or were shut down by the Feds for selling unregistered securities/investments.

So ask yourself, does TVG (not TVGConnect) meet the Howey Test? TVGConnect is just the marketing arm for TVG, so it is TVG that has to be evaluated to determine if the Howey test applies. If you answered yes to the questions, it is an investment and all licensing and registration I mentioned must be done.

Thank you Eagleone for providing info without attitude. Very much appreciated.

[ribshaw]

This is not "academic" to me, I take charity work very seriously and I don't want to see kids starving if I make a bad call.


Might I ask what if any reason(s) at this point would you give that would indicate this is anything more than a flim flam money game?

[Fat City, LA]

TVG-CONNECT IS FULLY COMPLIANT WITH CANADIAN LAW!
AND OUR SYSTEM IS VERY VERY SECURE!!

https://www.facebook.com/notes/charles-andrade/tvg-connect-is-fully-compliant-with-canadian-law/10152839568373678

[littleroundman]

TVG-CONNECT IS FULLY COMPLIANT WITH CANADIAN LAW!
AND OUR SYSTEM IS VERY VERY SECURE!!

https://www.facebook.com/notes/charles-andrade/tvg-connect-is-fully-compliant-with-canadian-law/10152839568373678

For anyone doing REAL due diligence, as distinct from what passes for due diligence among HYIP ponzis, that Facebook announcement would be a red flag in itself.

REAL businesses don't have to say "we are not a ponzi"

REAL businesses have all the permits and licenses clearly displayed for everyone to see and don't give general links so that potential victims donors have to look up the information themselves.

REAL businesses are completely transparent

More importantly;

REAL charities have a legal and moral obligation to NEVER, EVER gamble with donated money

[Char]

Lord have mercy, these yahoos are going to end world hunger?!!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4emwJVNijUI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Fat City, LA]

https://www.facebook.com/charlesandrade/posts/10205225575138448

"i have a very interesting FOUNDERS PASSIVE scenario right now....
this is not TVG....totally passive....will create incredible returns...
PM me for more info...thx everyone"

Like all his other closed/failed passive scenarios?

[NikSam]

https://www.facebook.com/charlesandrade/posts/10205225575138448

"i have a very interesting FOUNDERS PASSIVE scenario right now....
this is not TVG....totally passive....will create incredible returns...
PM me for more info...thx everyone"

Like all his other closed/failed passive scenarios?

Casteneda is cross-pimping ? heh , so much for the "CHEIF of OPERATIONS" :)

or he just had too much of peyote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peyote)

[NikSam]

https://www.facebook.com/charlesandrade/posts/10205207822694648

:RpS_lol:

8593
8594

[littleroundman]

It's not hard to see the fraudsters behind TVG are aiming squarely at the HYIP ponzi crowd and good hearted but naive charity supporters:

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/8318/rv2DOt.jpg

WHERE ???

The information is certainly not where they say it is.

http://imageshack.com/a/img661/5074/kCCUtS.jpg

Just enough official looking information to fool their target market

Not one shred of the type of "proof" required by someone doing real "due diligence"

No licenses, no permits, no proof of incorporation and a generic Google map of Saskatoon. Other than that, nothing, other than the fraudsters own words and DEFINITELY nothing more than is provided by virtually every single HYIP ponzi fraud on the Talkgold and MMG HYIP ponzi forums.

Gets worse every time I look at it.

[Fat City, LA]

https://www.facebook.com/notes/10152846434978678/

Among the lowlights...
" This GOD given vision is one that we have UNITED NATIONS approval with;"
"True Vision Global and TVG-Connect is a GOD given vision alone"
"Yes, this is how we will end the plights of this world. (Hunger, Poverty, Homelessness, Hopelessness, Sickness, Human Trafficking and so much more.)"

[littleroundman]

Other than memberships, where is the money coming from ???

As with everything related to both HYIP ponzi / pyramid frauds and TVG, they are big on rhetoric and small on facts.

http://imageshack.com/a/img537/1162/04A2SR.jpg

[ribshaw]

Other than memberships, where is the money coming from ???

As with everything related to both HYIP ponzi / pyramid frauds and TVG, they are big on rhetoric and small on facts.



5000 organizations "joining" and "supporting" sure would be nice if they were listed somewhere and in what capacity. As for products, sure would be nice to see a price list. Seems in 100% of the MLMs I have seen even after backing out affiliate commission the products are still priced to high.

Short of these key details sounds like just another money suck.

[Whip]

Short of these key details sounds like just another money suck.

hence the initials TVG - The Vacuum Group

[NikSam]

I personally do not like spending much time looking into this , as i do not believe those low profile scammers will get big enough to be noticed and locked up. This thing is so full of hilarious lies it seems already dead on arrival.

Only defenders of it who keep coming in here make me pay any attention to it.


Heh, "Casteneda" is the one who would build a facebook for charities/churches ?
He cannot even build a simple site based on wordpress yet , delays, delays :RpS_lol:

His pants were full of happiness when he discovered that his site finally "connects" to the payment gateway :)

[kschang]

Charles Andrade may be the guy behind MMO Casheout, another failed scheme

MMO Cashout Review: MMO theme recruiting scheme (http://behindmlm.com/companies/mmo-cashout-review-mmo-theme-recruitment-scheme/)

[Fat City, LA]

I personally do not like spending much time looking into this , as i do not believe those low profile scammers will get big enough to be noticed and locked up. This thing is so full of hilarious lies it seems already dead on arrival.

Only defenders of it who keep coming in here make me pay any attention to it.


Heh, "Casteneda" is the one who would build a facebook for charities/churches ?
He cannot even build a simple site based on wordpress yet , delays, delays :RpS_lol:

His pants were full of happiness when he discovered that his site finally "connects" to the payment gateway :)

Agree this stays small.
How many are greedy/stupid/crazy enough to fall for $29.95 to earn $17,800.

[EagleOne]

Agree this stays small.
How many are greedy/stupid/crazy enough to fall for $29.95 to earn $17,800.

Sadly too many will.

[Whip]

Agree this stays small.
How many are greedy/stupid/crazy enough to fall for $29.95 to earn $17,800.

But again, why would anyone expect to earn anything when they are suppose to be 'giving'? Pretty hypocritical. Which happens first? The alleged 'giving' or the 'earning'?

[Fat City, LA]

With this crew of scam artists?

Which happens first?=the wind blows....What next=the Bull---t flows.

[littleroundman]

Time to get your stories straight, TVG.

When we check out the TVG-Connect faqs page (https://tvg-connect.com/faqs/) we are told:

http://imageshack.com/a/img674/1404/ezTLkY.jpg

Yet, if we DO check out the TVG-Connect Shop (https://tvg-connect.com/shop/) what do we find ???

(And, yes, this is a screenshot of the whole, unedited page)

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/866/cW1DRA.jpg

As we have said before, "Where's the money coming from, TVG ?"

[ribshaw]

Good thing Thrive products are already for sale on EBAY so there is no need to wait. Today my downline will be shipping the 5 day diet pills to orphans all over the world. Tomorrow, Pilates dvds.

8598

Who says you can't do go and make massive bank at the same time?

[NikSam]

BehindMLM review of this pyramid (http://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/true-vision-global-review-charity-church-matrix-positions/)

Heh this crap did not launch yet, already so much talk, like we are advertising it :)

[Fat City, LA]

BehindMLM review of this pyramid (http://behindmlm.com/mlm-reviews/true-vision-global-review-charity-church-matrix-positions/)

Heh this crap did not launch yet, already so much talk, like we are advertising it :)

I sent the info to OZ last week on this one. He got to it fast.
There is a religious nut in the comments...he just doesnt get he is being played.

[ProfHenryHiggins]

If that religious nut you refer to is John DeBruyn, he isn't being played. He's one of the players, part of the TVG administraton, and knows he's hurting other people, whether he'll admit it or not.

cojos@live.ca
306-260-9398
https://www.facebook.com/john.debruyn.7
https://twitter.com/johndebruyn1

[littleroundman]

http://imageshack.com/a/img633/6908/bbwJPU.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img673/5900/qYPp42.jpg

John DeBruyns' john.debruyn.7 (https://www.facebook.com/john.debruyn.7) page on Facebook

http://imageshack.com/a/img913/4638/BphWRq.jpg

John DeBruyn @johndebruyn1 (https://twitter.com/johndebruyn1) on Twitter

[NikSam]

If their pyramid is all for humane reasons and to feed the hungry, help churches, should not it work the other way.

members get $17,813 right away , and after that pay $29.95 per month and recruit others who wants $17,813 ????

would not that attract the millions of members ? and TVG would be doing the same thing they claim they do with a minor change :)

[laidback]

If their pyramid is all for humane reasons and to feed the hungry, help churches, should not it work the other way.

members get $17,813 right away , and after that pay $29.95 per month and recruit others who wants $17,813 ????

would not that attract the millions of members ? and TVG would be doing the same thing they claim they do with a minor change :)LOL, I would sign up for that, and my guarantee to pay the $29.95 per month is every bit as good as theirs!!!