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Soapboxmom
11-25-2010, 11:43 AM
I want to share the wonderful work of Dr. Jon Taylor:

http://mlm-thetruth.com/files/Ch9-Villains-andVictims-Case4andAgainstMLM10-18-10.pdf

The list of the effects of MLM is long:

* financial devastation

* divorce

* bankruptcy

* depression

* foreclosure

* loss of faith

* loss of trust in one's fellow man

and so much more....

My family lost a dear friend that we considered part of our family. She had been living with us for months as she tried to recover. Tragically, the financial diffculties were the start of a downward spiral that ended in her taking her own life.

I will continue to blog about MLM and cash gifting schemes in honor of her incredible spirit. I know she would not anyone else hurt by MLM as she was.

Soapboxmom

Soapboxmom
11-25-2010, 01:48 PM
MLM debt leads to murder and failed suicide attempt (http://behindmlm.com/companies/polaris-media-group/mlm-debt-leads-to-murder-and-failed-suicide-attempt/)

Aug.22, 2010 in MLM (http://behindmlm.com/category/mlm/), Polaris Media Group (http://behindmlm.com/category/companies/polaris-media-group/)

One of the more worrying aspects of the MLM industry is people racking up long term ongoing debts they cannot pay.

As anyone in the industry will tell you running a MLM business successfully requires an ongoing monetary investment. Leads aren’t just going to fall into your lap and more often then not, be it via direct purchase, advertising or just talking to people – you’re going to be outlaying some money to get them.

Over time if you’re not successful with your MLM business though, these debts can rack up and cause a world of pain. Without money coming in it can feel like you’re digging yourself into a hole you’re never going to crawl out of.

Of course many when asked about this many uplines will simply advise their downlines that they’re not trying hard enough, following the business template properly or that it’s simply not their problem.

So… left out on the cold on your own by an industry that values success and ignores failure, what is the struggling MLM business owner to do?
For Ellery Bennett the answer lay in murdering his wife and then attempting to take his own life.

Ellery Bennett started his foray into the MLM business by joining Liberty Leauge International back in March, 2007. After a year of working Liberty League and his corporate job he quit his corporate role in 2008 and solely focused on his Liberty League business.
Of his Liberty League International business, Bennett stated (http://homebizresults.net/testimonials.php)

I work for myself and I create the life I want for my family. I have time, freedom and a tremendous lucrative opportunity.
I live life on purpose, I know what I want, I believe in who I am, this company and the products. Anyone can be successful, it’s a choice, so choose wisely…
Presumably after some moderate success Bennett remained with Liberty League until late 2009 when Liberty League International changed over to Polaris Media Group (now Polaris Global).

Bennett’s next MLM venture was then with the LGN Prosperity group where he remained until recently.

Despite projecting the image of success Bennett appears to have been battling a long term mounting MLM debt as a result of his involvement in the MLM industry. So successful was Bennett at hiding this debt and employing the all-too-familiar ‘fake it till you make it’ mantra that his friends and family had no idea.

Bennett’s wife however was fully aware of the situation and presumably after years of struggling, finally decided to call it quits and filed for divorce on August 11th, 2010.
Coupled with his failed MLM business ventures and mounting debt it appears that it all became too much for Bennett. On Wednesday 18th of August, Bennett took the life of his wife and then attempted to commit suicide. Unable to go through with it however, Bennett presented at a local hospital and told authorities that they would find the body of his dead wife in their home.

Bennett has since been charged with pre-meditated first degree murder.
Of particular note in this story is Bennett’s involvement in Liberty League International (Polaris Global (http://behindmlm.com/category/companies/polaris-media-group/)). Liberty League International were in the personal development industry and offered a flagship 90 day course, Beyond Freedom that is designed to be ‘life changing’.
One can’t help but question the effectiveness or long term benefits of these programs if the end result is resorting to murder and suicide.

Secondly is the worrying note found in Bennett’s home indicating that he also wanted to kill his neighbour. Bennett’s neighbour appears to have at some point shown some interest in his LGN business venture but then failed to commit.

Presumably Bennett had approached his neighbour as a prospect but then became frustrated with his or her lack of committing to the LGN business. Thankfully the indications that Bennett wanted to harm his neighbour left in his letter were never carried out.

What we have here I believe is the ultimate end result of the faking it till you make it idea that is so heavily pushed onto new MLM recruits joining the industry.

People no doubt respond to success so in order to be successful you need to project a credible image of success. If you aren’t having that success though then you need to fake it until you are, regardless of what is really going on behind the scenes.
BehindMLM reader ‘Eye Opener’ described (http://behindmlm.com/companies/polaris-media-group/polaris-global-why-the-name-change-from-pgm/comment-page-1/#comment-4939) Ellery Bennett as being

the gentlest person with a kind heart, who loved life, his wife, his daughter’.
Whether this is true or not I can’t say but it does appear to be the image Bennett chose to project to the world despite his business failure.

To those in the MLM industry be careful what you’re getting yourself into financially. Debt is debt and it doesn’t go away, nor does it reduce in size on its own.

And to those already struggling with MLM debt please think about the future and talk to someone.
Anyone.

Like any business venture the prospect of financial failure often results in the devastation of people’s lives as they know it. Unfortunately a common theme in the MLM industry that differentiates it is that your personal success if often directly tied into the financial success of your upline.

Succeed and you’ll get all the support and encouragement in the world. Fail and you’ll more then likely be shut out and kept in the dark, where Ellery Bennett appears to have finally wound up.

Debt management might seem unachievable but with a bit of persistence and proper planning is viable for anyone. There are far better solutions then killing your wife and trying to take your own life out there.

Take care people.

Soapboxmom
11-25-2010, 01:53 PM
Melaleuca Distributors Sue their Upline
and the Company

http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/images/psabanner2.gif (http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/)


March, 2000
Fourteen Melaleuca distributors have sued their upline and the company on charges that have become all too familiar to followers of MLM lawsuits. The crux of this case rests on claims that the company and its representatives knowingly, fraudulently and persistently misrepresented their distributor retention rate.
Distributor retention is vital to the success of any MLM endeavor, because you have to be able to sponsor new people faster than the old ones quit. In the landmark FTC decision of 1979, Amway testified to a 50% retention rate, which was excellent for the direct sales industry. This means that, in any given year, 50% of the distributor force quits. Anyone wanting to succeed at sponsoring would have to sponsor two for every one they want to keep.
Melaleuca, on the other hand, represented its retention rate to be a whopping 94.5 percent, according to the plaintiffs' petition:

"For Melaleuca to have a retention rate of 94.5 percent tells the prospective distributor that the products must be very good for so many people to continue to use them, and that the ability to build and maintain a business with such a retention rate is guaranteed. This was, indeed, the message and representation by Defendants."
The petition further explains:

"Plaintiffs were able to build large and successful groups. However, after a time, Plaintiffs each saw their numbers diminishing. Distributor after distributor was being dropped from the active lists. Rather than a positive, upward trend which would be expected as a consequence of the greatest retention rate in the history of multi-level marketing, Plaintiffs saw their numbers either decline or become stagnant, despite new distributors being added all of the time. When asked, Defendants would blame the numbers problem on their own lack of effort and initiative, saying that harder work would bring Plaintiffs back into the same realm as the rest of the company. . ."
This led to the plaintiffs experiencing

"a gradual diminishment of their monthly income. Each of these Plaintiffs could not continue to participate in the business which required so much attention and so little in return. As a consequence, these Plaintiffs have disrupted careers and dashed hopes, dreams and expectations."
James Holton, along with his wife Kim, had been neglecting other businesses in order to focus on the Melaleuca distributorship. They had sponsored a great many family and friends, relying on the company's information. Then the shoe dropped. According to Holton, his upline, the Hagans, admitted at a large sponsoring meeting that

"At this meeting, the Hagens confessed, for the first time, that the 94.5 percent retention rate was not at all what had been represented. It was not 94.5 percent over time, it was not 94.5 percent per year, the Hagens said. Instead, it was more along the lines of 94.5 percent per month."
So (according to the complaint), instead of an average attrition rate of only 5.5% per year, as they had been led to believe, the Holtons discovered that the annual dropout rate was really 66% per year -- an enormous difference. Kim Holton, who had sponsored people she cared about, was thrown into a serious depression and eventually committed suicide, leaving her husband and son.
The petition outlines other distributor plaintiffs complaints of fraud and deceptiveness on Melaleuca's part. Distributors' businesses were terminated arbitrarily, and without just cause. Compensation plans were changed. Promises were never delivered. The plaintiffs, who all had invested significant time and effort and had achieved some measure of success, were left with nothing to show for their effort, while the company had profited considerably.
Sadly, this case has been tried, and a jury found in favor of the defendants.
The case was heard in District Court, in Harris County, TX. Texas has recently seen some significant changes in the tort, or personal injury, laws. Certainly there have been abuses in recent years. But if this courtroom climate is any indication, then it would seem that no consumer will be able to successfully sue any business. That's a scary thought. And who is taking credit for this tort reform? None other than Presidential hopeful George W. Bush.
Anyway, enough of politics. Read the entire text of the pleadings here (http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/melaleuca1.htm).

Melaleuca's Response (http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/mel_intimidate.htm)

Home (http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/index.htm) Send E-Mail (http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/nospam.htm) Read E-Mail (http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/post.htm) Links (http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/links.htm) Read Articles (http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/enter2.htm) Visit Book Corner (http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/BookCorner/BookCornerHome.htm)

littleroundman
11-25-2010, 07:23 PM
My family lost a dear friend that we considered part of our family. She had been living with us for months as she tried to recover. Tragically, the financial difficulties were the start of a downward spiral that ended in her taking her own life.

As the saying goes:

"It's all good fun until somebody gets hurt"

Until somebody has actually seen what can happen when reality bites, then it's all just forum fun and games.

Unfortunately your friends' story is not an isolated incident.

It is unfortunate, also that what can happen when vulnerable people fall for the latest MLM "super juice", "magic meat" or "snake oil" is rarely, if ever, made public.

Soapboxmom
11-26-2010, 12:38 AM
102


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwC0RTAC2Pg&feature=related
Those she left behind have the bleeding hearts.

This is the legacy of MLM.

Soapboxmom

Doc Bunkum
11-26-2010, 11:19 AM
I made reference to that "MLM debt leads to murder and failed suicide attempt" blog entry over on scam.com.

Seems Wil and Doyley were less than impressed. :RpS_sad:

Soapboxmom
11-26-2010, 04:14 PM
Qualtoos has a wonderful article (http://www.quatloos.com/mlm/mlm.htm)about MLM:




Survival Mode




After you have made big investments into the MLM program (or maybe several), are strung out on your credit cards, and the program isn't working out, then you will go into what is called "Survival Mode", where you finally give up the (false) dream of big riches with MLM and start trying to figure out how to hold off your credit card companies while getting back to a normal lifestyle.

Unfortunately, we don't have any special advice to offer. The only thing that we can say is that suicide shouldn't be an option (ex-MLM'ers unfortunately have a very high suicide rate), and that you should simultaneously seek credit counseling, and maybe adult education for re-education for a better job.





I know, having befriended so many MLM victims, that trying to recover financially is a herculean task and seems insurmountable. The founders and heavy hitters in these scams need to be held accountable for the horrific devastation they cause and I intend to devote my life to doing just that.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qQ_pQAgKS8
Soapboxmom

Soapboxmom
11-26-2010, 06:17 PM
I made reference to that "MLM debt leads to murder and failed suicide attempt" blog entry over on scam.com.

Seems Wil and Doyley were less than impressed. :RpS_sad:
The clueless MLMers on Scam didn't read all of the comments with the article (http://behindmlm.com/companies/polaris-media-group/mlm-debt-leads-to-murder-and-failed-suicide-attempt/)you and I linked. Where was one shred of evidence that bad real estate investments were an issue? Anything to deflect. That guy apparently was ruined by his involvement in Liberty Leauge. A large ticket item scam like that can land the poor unsuspecting rep in tens of thousands of debt. Most folks cannot recover from losses like that. I know many use credit cards, refinance their homes, borrow from college and retirement funds and more to get into these deals. It is completely criminal!

Soapboxmom

A Life Aloft
11-26-2010, 11:58 PM
My family lost a dear friend that we considered part of our family. She had been living with us for months as she tried to recover. Tragically, the financial diffculties were the start of a downward spiral that ended in her taking her own life.

I will continue to blog about MLM and cash gifting schemes in honor of her incredible spirit. I know she would not anyone else hurt by MLM as she was.

SoapboxmomMom, I am very saddened to hear of this and of your loss. This is pretty terrible to have happened to someone who trusted and believed the false words and the lying promises of a scam artist. I know that there is nothing I can say that will ease your pain and grief right now. At least you took her in and tried to help as best you could. Somehow, in some way, the perpetrators of this truly evil act will pay. What goes around, eventually comes around to all of us. I believe that with all my heart. It is just such a shame that your friend felt this hopeless and devastated. Losing everything, is horrible. It is too much for some to bear. She is at least, at rest now from all of this and free from the misery and the pain that must have plagued her so horrifically. I am very sorry. If you need anything, PM me, Mom.

A Life Aloft
11-27-2010, 12:03 AM
I made reference to that "MLM debt leads to murder and failed suicide attempt" blog entry over on scam.com.

Seems Wil and Doyley were less than impressed. :RpS_sad:What else can you expect from that **** hole? There is no moderation there whatsoever and maybe two decent posters left on the MLM forum. It's a total joke and a complete waste of time. You have Heiney, IamAWilly and Chrissie spouting the same exact bullshit and lies that they have been spewing for years and starting duplicate pro MLM threads weekly. Yet, none of them has two shits to rub together for all the years they have been promoting MLM bullshit. They aren't even third rate conmen......just big mouthed, lying losers with no lives and no souls.

Soapboxmom
11-28-2010, 12:47 AM
I remember with great joy performing this piece, Andrew Lloyd Webber's Requiem. May it honor my best friend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8iY24I1NWQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zklVLMeu_LM&feature=related
Soapboxmom

littleroundman
11-28-2010, 03:17 AM
It is virtually impossible to explain the devastation to peoples' lives which can result from these frauds and fraudsters until one has the misfortune to actually experience and/or witness the outcomes first hand as has happened so tragically to Mom.

Soapboxmom
12-13-2010, 05:44 PM
Madoff's wife tells kin Bernie's Ponzi shame drove son to kill self: author (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/ruth_blames_sins_of_father_NGssHYYeMbJcMUcDjZrRnN)

By LEONARD GREENE, LARRY CELONA and CATHY BURKE
Last Updated: 10:01 AM, December 13, 2010
Posted: 1:39 AM, December 13, 2010
Comments: 96 (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/ruth_blames_sins_of_father_NGssHYYeMbJcMUcDjZrRnN# comments_block)

His blood is on his father's hands.
Ruth Madoff is blaming her jailed-crook husband, Bernie, for the grisly suicide of their eldest son, Mark, biographer Jerry Oppenheimer told The Post yesterday.
The distraught mother believes Mark "would not have died if it weren't for what had done," the author of "Madoff With the Money" said, quoting a family friend.
"Her wrath is aimed at her husband."
PHOTOS: MARK MADOFF (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/mark_madoff_09NhHD4U2DDccsaBwPTR2I)
Mark Madoff, 46, hanged himself Saturday with a dog leash from a steel pipe in the living room of his SoHo loft.
The body was discovered a mere 10 feet from his sleeping 2-year-old son's bedroom, two years to the day after his disgraced father's arrest for the biggest investment fraud in US history.
http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/12/13/news/photos_stories/madoff_son_apartment003744--300x150.jpg

Ruth is "totally disgusted with [Bernie] and blames him for her son's death. She thinks this is the end of the family," Oppenheimer said, quoting Madoff relatives and sources close to the family.
As for Bernie, "family members don't think [he's] going to survive this."
"It has made him realize what this whole thing has all been about. It's a Greek tragedy."
The city Medical Examiner's Office yesterday formally ruled Mark's death a "suicide by hanging."
Neither Mark nor his brother, Andrew -- who had ratted their dad out to authorities after he confessed to the Ponzi scheme -- have been hit with charges in the fraud case, which bilked billions of dollars from investors.
Still, sources said, Mark had become increasingly despondent over the scandal -- at least some of his four children were among those named in one of a number of lawsuits plaguing the family, and he hadn't spoken with his mother or father in two years.
And with his last name mud, Mark Madoff -- who once lived like a prince, helping run his father's empire -- had apparently been struggling to find enough work to pay the bills.
"Mark was broke, and every time we went to dinner with [him and his wife, Stephanie], we paid," one family friend said outside the SoHo pad.
The pal said he last heard from Mark on Friday evening -- just before the friend and his wife were supposed to have dinner with Mark.
"But we got a text saying, 'Sorry, I'm not going to make it tonight,' " the pal said.
Mark was last seen alive at around 6:30 p.m. on Friday walking his pooch in front of the building where he lived alongside celebs like rocker Jon Bon Jovi.
At around 4 a.m. Saturday, he fired off three desperate e-mails to wife Stephanie -- who was vacationing at Disney World in Orlando with the couple's 4-year-old daughter, Audrey -- and his lawyer, sources said.
One e-mail declared, "No one wants to hear the truth," and pleaded, "Please take care of my family." Others confessed love for Stephanie and urged, "Send someone to take care of Nick."
Madoff then wrapped his 3-year-old dog Grouper's leash around his neck and hung himself from the exposed ceiling pipe at the entrance to the home's living room, as baby Nicholas slept nearby.
Stephanie opened the e-mails at around 7 a.m. and frantically phoned her dad, lawyer Martin London. London rushed by cab from his Murray Hill home to the apartment and discovered Mark's body and called cops. London then called on his own son to pick up little Nicholas as London stayed to talk to cops.
Funeral arrangements for Mark, who has two children from a previous marriage, were not announced yesterday. It remained unclear whether Bernie Madoff, sentenced to 150 years, would be allowed to attend.
Friends and relatives gathered at his and Stephanie's Greenwich, Conn., home, where the wife was believed to be with their children. But even in death, the legal mess goes on for Mark.
Last week, Irving Picard, the court-appointed trustee of seized Madoff assets, sued the Mark and Stephanie Madoff Foundation for $2 million it allegedly received from Bernie and Ruth Madoff's bank account in December 2007.
Picard also sued the Deborah and Andrew Madoff Foundation for $2 million that Bernie allegedly wired to it.
[B]A one-man suicide machine:
Other Madoff-related suicides
Dec. 17, 2008 — HSBC banker Christen Schnor, 49, hanged himself in a five-star hotel room in London a week after his company said $1 billion of the bank’s money was at risk because of Madoff’s scheme.
*
Dec. 22, 2008 — French hedge-fund manager Thierry de la Villehuchet committed suicide in New York City after losing $1.5 billion to Madoff.
*
Feb. 10, 2009 — Former military adviser William Foxton shot himself to death near his home in Southampton, England. He could not tolerate the shame of being in financial straits after losing his life savings to Madoff’s Ponzi plot.
Additional reporting by Jeane MacIntosh, Doug Auer, Rebecca Rosenberg and Reuven Fenton in New York and Ian Batchelor in North Carolina



Read more: Ruth Madoff, wife of Bernie Madoff, blames him for son Mark's suicide, author says - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/ruth_blames_sins_of_father_NGssHYYeMbJcMUcDjZrRnN# ixzz182BFuSwJ)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is blood on hands for my best friend that I buried just two weeks ago after she too committed suicide. I hope these scammers wake up and see the devastation in their wake. Family and friends lives are forever ruined by these schemes. There is no end to the shame and bad publicity. This hideous mess wil be the subject of litigation and scathing press for years to come.

Soapboxmom

Soapboxmom
01-05-2011, 04:34 PM
It is tragic for the Madoff family that all these gory details of their family member's suicide had to be made public. Incredibly I am being e-mailed for details about how my friend took her life. Her immediate family and close friends know everything as they should. All I will say is that she did not take her life in our home and it was very well planned out. No one suspected anything as she did everything to put on a normal front. Her financial difficulties were certainly a major factor. Real people and their families get hurt in these uneconomic schemes and I intend to be a voice for change. Law enforcement needs to take much more action to end these schemes that victimize so many good, trusting people.

Soapboxmom

Soapboxmom
03-14-2011, 11:01 PM
150
Judy Sterling


BORN: February 27, 1959
DIED: November 18, 2010
LOCATION: Garland, TX
After months of agonizing over this decision, I decided to share more of the story of my friend who took her own life. Insert the name of any high dollar MLM and any serial scammers and you will have much of tthe story. Unfortunately, the victim's family and friends live with the aftermath forever. MLM left her destitute, homeless and hungry. Several truly generous fellow reps did what they could to help though they had lost thousands as well. That is the only light of hope in this whole tragedy.

Family support for these victims is often non-existent as many people don't understand that the Judy's have been taken and ruined by seasoned professional cons who go from one scam to the next in rapid fire succession. She served in Desert Storm in the Air Force. She held a master's degree in education. She had so much talent and promise. She lost everything and ended up bankrupt due to MLM. Those who were responsible for her financial ruin did absolutely nothing to help her.

The hole in my heart will never be mended. The pain this has caused my family will never go away. I look in her room and it is empty. Her car no longer sits in front of the house. We won't be sharing the joys of watching our kids get married and becoming grandmothers together. I can only visit her at the DFW National Cemetary and wish our family had been able to give her enough love and hope to recover.

This is the real truth behind MLM and other scams and I hope others will be spared what we have had to live through. I hope those founders and heavy hitters who put folks in this position will face the iron hand of justice and repent.

Soapboxmom

Soapboxmom
07-19-2011, 09:40 PM
Judy Sterling was sunk into bankruptcy due to her involvement with Tim Darnell and Jack Weinzierl in Advantage Conferences. She had earned 120 grand in insurance commissions. The stranger owned life insurance program, Hidden Treasures was bogus. The policies were to be resold to investors, so legitimate insuance companies would not underwrite them. Not a penny changed hands and she wasted months of her life hanging on for commissions that would never come.

Thankfully, she never sold a single spot int the Advantage Conferences pyramid scam, for which she was grateful. Even with a solid business background, military background and masters degree she was among the 98% that lost money in that scam. AC was life changing for many to be sure.

http://www.realscam.com/f11/tim-darnell-jack-weinzierl-advantage-conferences-one-heroes-helped-shut-them-down-judy-s-776/

Soapboxmom
11-18-2011, 08:17 PM
Today is the one year anniversary of Judy Sterling's suicide. I hope that everyone will honor her memory and all those harmed by MLM and other scams by donating generously to a legitimate charity. She still has fellow Advantage Conferences' members who are struggling to get back on their feet.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuE1XJ_uqOs&noredirect=1

This is one of the songs Judy requested to be performed at her memorial service. She spelled it all out in pages and pages of painful detail. She had hoped I would perform some of the songs. I simply couldn't hold it together to do so. My heart was too heavy. There will be an empty chair at our table this Thanksgiving. The devastation MLM brings is painfully real.

Soapboxmom

Soapboxmom
11-18-2011, 08:22 PM
Jack Weinzierl posted this song Judy requested for her service online in years past. I think of her every time I hear it. Certainly He did not want Judy in his presence so soon!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xwzItqYmII

Soapboxmom

Soapboxmom
11-18-2011, 10:16 PM
Be encouraged and “in courage” (http://jackweinzierl.com/be-encouraged-and-in-courage/)

Posted on 06 November 2011 by Jack Weinzierl (http://jackweinzierl.com/author/Jack%20Weinzierl/)

I know that some of our friends and family are facing foreclosure, health challenges, lost jobs, divorce, etc. I pray that this encourages you, as God has a very special plan for you and the enemy is doing everything he can to keep you from leading a victorious life that will glorify God.

Worship was awesome this morning… not because of the songs we sang… not because of the talent on stage (and they are talented), but because of who He is. Worship and prayer has been so important to Stephanie and me over the past few years. It kept us focused on His grace and mercy in the midst of some very difficult storms. It kept me focused on all that He has done for us and what He delivered us from… and what He is still delivering us through. We are so thankful!

Over the past 3 years… we lost two businesses, lost our so-called “dream” home to foreclosure, lost our business reputation, lost friends who believed the lies, lost a church when it closed, lost health temporarily with depression… diagnosed with skin cancer in five places, atrial flutter and atrial fibrillation, $25,000 in legal fees fighting a baseless lawsuit, faced over $700,000 in debt, and several thousand online attacks on me, my family, faith, church and school.

The enemy did everything possible to take me out… at times wondering if my family was better off without me… if I can be so honest in hopes of helping someone else. Christians often put a good face on, while ignoring serious issues that so many face in private. You are never too low or have fallen too far from God that He cannot heal and restore you.

I am sharing all this in hope that it helps someone else. It is not easy to go through the storms in life, but continue to praise Him for what He has done, is doing and will do in your life. He has delivered us from some very difficult circumstances… almost everyone of these mentioned above. He did not bring those things to us, but He will use these circumstances to strengthen you and we give Him all the glory. We have overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony.

Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world. He is our encourager, our provider, our healer, our deliverer, our comfort, our victory. He has provided for us in so many supernatural ways and we look forward to sharing…. the rest of the story very soon. Be encouraged… be ” in courage” this week. Pray with someone else you know going through a difficult time. Sow seeds of encouragement (even when you don’t feel like it) and the harvest will be great.

Remember to be thankful for your many blessings. Most of you reading this make more than $2 a day which is the average pay for 50% of the world’s population. Be thankful that you can worship and pray without persecution and that we serve the only Risen Savior.

I want to make sure to clarify one thing in my post above. We are not victims. We made several bad choices and decisions and much of what we experienced was due to those decisions. Yes, the enemy will use these circumstances to try to take you out, make you ineffective for the Kingdom by making you feel unworthy and filled with self pity and even hatred, but I thank God for His mercy and grace. I know that I chased the almighty dollar at times vs putting “The Almighty” first. I will contend for the very best, falling short at times, but failing is an event, not who you are. Have a great week friends and look for someone to encourage and love. It may be a matter of life and death to them.


Judy Sterling told me she went to Jack in 2007 when she had no food and not a penny to her name to purchase any and he did nothing. Nothing except complain about his gargantuan water bill. It was a matter of life and death!

This is a pretty sick attempt at garnering sympathy. He knows Judy is gone and that Robert F. almost lost his life due to his involvement in Advantage Conferences. Pathetic!!!

Soapboxmom

Luzer
12-03-2011, 12:22 AM
I want to share the wonderful work of Dr. Jon Taylor:

MLM-TheTruth :: (http://mlm-thetruth.com/files/Ch9-Villains-andVictims-Case4andAgainstMLM10-18-10.pdf)

Soapboxmom

Good topic SBM,

I have a story to share. I was in Amway early 2000's. I sat in functions where the diamond told the audience how long one could put off paying their mortgage and avoid foreclosure. The same diamond also taught how long you could put off the electric company and still have power. It was done in a manner that encouraged downlines to skip rent/mortgages to attend the next big function and to purchase more cd's. After picking up my jaw from the floor, I was thinking WTH? I didn't stay in much longer, especially when this came after a night owl meeting where the diamonds said the family (including kids) could fast a meal so you can buy an additional cd. Afterall, the cd might have the one nugget of information that could turn your business around.

Soapboxmom
12-03-2011, 10:32 AM
Welcome Luzer,

Welcome to the forum! That is so truly frightening. Coincidentally, the owner of Advantage Conferences, which lost one rep to suicide and had another attempt suicide, learned the ropes in Amway. Your post explains a lot. Thank goodness you had the good sense to bail and then help others with your story!

Soapboxmom

scratchycat
12-05-2011, 04:10 PM
Thank you for this information SBM. I had not read this thread before until yesterday. I posted it in my Garden of Friendship Facebook Group. It would do good to post it on my wall also, there are so many people who get taken in by these. If you do it for fun and just enjoy using the products, I have no problem with it but it is hard to keep it under control even with that.

scratchycat
12-05-2011, 04:11 PM
HerbalLife got to be a real problem with me as I tried to make a living selling it back in the early 2000's. It was really the feather than sunk the ship for me!!! While these things sound good, you would be better off punching a time-clock and make some real honest money.

Luzer
12-05-2011, 05:07 PM
Welcome Luzer,

Welcome to the forum! That is so truly frightening. Coincidentally, the owner of Advantage Conferences, which lost one rep to suicide and had another attempt suicide, learned the ropes in Amway. Your post explains a lot. Thank goodness you had the good sense to bail and then help others with your story!

Soapboxmom

Thanks! I hope by sharing my story, some unsuspecting prospect might get the information that their sponsor or upline won't give them freely.

Soapboxmom
11-18-2012, 08:59 PM
My best friend Judy S. took her own life after suffering horrific losses in MLM 2 years ago today. Once again we will have an empty chair at Thanksgiving.

The MLM scam that ruined her financially was Advantage Conferences. She was going hungry and in constant fear of ending up on the street. One of Tim Darnell's scamference speakers realized as she drove him to the airport she was unwell and he made sure she had grocery money for that month in 2006 as she struggled heroically after she lost everything in a chapter 7 bankruptcy resulting from her involvement in AC. All those Christian multi-millionaires running around and those promises of great wealth that were made (http://www.realscam.com/f17/tim-darnell-jack-weinzierl-advantage-conferences-earnings-representations-781/) and the reps were in many cases in desperate straights just like Judy.

Tim Darnell and Jack Weinzierl lived high on the hog on the horrific losses of others. May unrepentant scammers choke on a turkey bone this holiday season. I will never forget! And, I don't believe you will be saved.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqN7eU6SRDU&feature=related

Soapboxmom

Soapboxmom
11-18-2012, 10:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dosqk_-Ut0&feature=relmfu

The Day of Wrath. This was quite a powerful piece to perform live. Who could listen to this and not be thinking of all the unrepentant scammers out there and the many victims left in their wake!

scambusters
11-21-2012, 06:44 AM
unnecesarily inflammatory and off topic trolling post removed by moderator

scratchycat
11-21-2012, 10:07 AM
It is very true about MLM. People sign up with these 'business' deals, spend a lot of money upfront because you have to order the products and they make you feel that you are a real professional business person while all you are is a pawn to make money for them. If you are lucky enough to sell some of the items, you still have to continue to purchase more, so there go your 'profits'. If a person tries this with something they use on a daily basis, I will use Jerky Direct as an example, then you can love eating the product and share with friends and family but at an expense of (I have forgotten) but I believe it was close to $15.00 a month. Now you can go to your local grocery store and buy this junk for even less as you want it but with your 'company' you are required to make a purchase even if you have a build up on hand that you cannot sell. You can only eat so much jerky, right!! What about all those other ones out there that sucker people into believing they can make a living selling their products. YOU CAN'T! You might make a little on the side if it is something you really believe in and use yourself. Most people do exactly that and sell very little to the public. Not even enough to cover the costs of the little 'business' you think you have.

When I was down on my luck and could not get hired for a real job, I became a victim of such a program. I don't mind sharing it here if it will indeed help others. I got involved with Herbalife and started my own business, really got serious with it. However, I had to order at least $400 worth of product so I could use it myself to convince others it was great. I will attest to the fact that the products are good and although I lost a little weight it was nothing what the claimed it should be. However there were other benefits such as healthy skin and vitamin balance. I got into selling the products and with my connections, door to door, I did make some money but not a living. I never recruited one person under me and I believe that is where the potential of making money comes in - however, I would not know. The person who recruited me became a total nusiance and called me constantly - even at another place I was working! I stopped answering the phone and should have reported him but things in my life has deteroriated even more with losing close family due to cancer. I was the strong one to help with all the others take care of loved ones, going to doctors, running errands and staying with them. You can see how this made me very vulnerable to a situation where someone was telling me I could earn lots of money but I had to do etc. etc. I finally woke up, realized this was going no where except by bringing me down further. I quit, did not answer phone and finally told this person to never contact me again. I was stuck with product that I gave away, but I was rid of a bad experience that caused much pain and a credit card balance that I could not pay. I made a big change in my life and after several years was able to get back on my feet again. I don't blame it all on the experience with Herbalife but it added to my trauma. I would have been much better off if I had never gotten involved with it.

A couple of years ago a niece of mine was asking on FB about signing up with this company. I wrote to her and advised her to please not get involved, she didn't and I know it saved her from a similar experience. I hope by posting this it will help others to really do their due dilligence before signing up with any program that makes these kinds of promises.

I also noticed above that a comment by scambusters was removed and if this person was supporting MLM or making derogatory remarks about the video, then I am glad it was deleted.

lutarian
11-21-2012, 04:38 PM
What a complete lie. I read this post and it was fine.



unnecesarily inflammatory and off topic trolling post removed by moderator

scratchycat
11-22-2012, 09:17 AM
So tell me what it was, you know how to get in touch.

Zapticon
11-23-2012, 09:32 AM
Just wanted to say that this is a good thread with hidden truths I have been looking for. Will definetly read more through the posts, but for now just leave this comment.

Soapboxmom: sad to hear about your friend committing suicide. Definetly the most tragic action that can be taken regarding MLM-participation.

By the way, Madoff is still alive in jail right? With his conscience, I'm surprised he can still stay on his feet.

Also, I discuss quite a lot on scam.com. I was only introduced to MLM recently, and have about 1,5 months of experience, so the scam.com-forum has gotten me much valueable insight in what it is all about. But now I think I have gottene what is possible out of that forum. It's all ****-throwing and calling each other names. 1 in 20 posts or so consists of something useful. Hope to get even more insight on this forum.

I'll probably stay at scam.com as well, as it is kind of amusing. And someone needs to stop the MLM-defenders from spreading their lies. I have seen that 2-300 maybe more are usually active in a certain time of the day, but only a small fraction of those are commenting, so that must mean many are probably reading for either amusement or learning if what they have been introduced to is a scam or not.

scratchycat
11-25-2012, 09:50 AM
Just wanted to say that this is a good thread with hidden truths I have been looking for. Will definetly read more through the posts, but for now just leave this comment.

Soapboxmom: sad to hear about your friend committing suicide. Definetly the most tragic action that can be taken regarding MLM-participation.

By the way, Madoff is still alive in jail right? With his conscience, I'm surprised he can still stay on his feet.

Also, I discuss quite a lot on scam.com. I was only introduced to MLM recently, and have about 1,5 months of experience, so the scam.com-forum has gotten me much valueable insight in what it is all about. But now I think I have gottene what is possible out of that forum. It's all ****-throwing and calling each other names. 1 in 20 posts or so consists of something useful. Hope to get even more insight on this forum.

I'll probably stay at scam.com as well, as it is kind of amusing. And someone needs to stop the MLM-defenders from spreading their lies. I have seen that 2-300 maybe more are usually active in a certain time of the day, but only a small fraction of those are commenting, so that must mean many are probably reading for either amusement or learning if what they have been introduced to is a scam or not.

It is my understanding that Scam.com is not the scam-busting community it was supposed to be but more like promoting and protecting scammers. JMO from what I have read here and seen in scam.com.

You might be interested in reading some of these reports on MLM..

"The MLM companies are representative in type, business model, pay plan and recruitment tactics of the majority of most MLMs. The report concludes that the MLM "industry" is a significant contributor to the widening income and wealth gap in America and elsewhere. The business model and business practices of most multi-level marketing companies cause the financial losses, not normal competitive factors or the levels of efforts or talents of the participants.


MLM companies seek to obscure their devastating failure rates by disclosing the number only of "active" participants and limiting the income figures to a one-year or even shorter time frames, thus concealing the factor of the ongoing and mounting losses of new participants. If all the participants over a five-year period are included in the calculations, the failure rate rises even further. Less than one in one-thousand will be shown to have gained any profit at all. The so-called successes in MLM are in the same small group positioned, year after year, at the top of the recruitment organization.

The figures used in the analysis are from public documents of the companies themselves. The percentages and actual dollar figures have been extrapolated to a "per 10,000 sales representatives" in order to provide a more understandable picture and to match data of the companies analyzed. A larger sample is applied to the Amway/Quixtar data.


The copyrighted report is available in PDF format."

www.crimebustersnow.org (http://www.crimebustersnow.org/)

Click on the Pyramid and this part is under "News", I believe.

I have just added you to this group in Facebook if you are interested.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/shotline/

Zapticon
11-25-2012, 06:08 PM
It is my understanding that Scam.com is not the scam-busting community it was supposed to be but more like promoting and protecting scammers. JMO from what I have read here and seen in scam.com.

You might be interested in reading some of these reports on MLM..

"The MLM companies are representative in type, business model, pay plan and recruitment tactics of the majority of most MLMs. The report concludes that the MLM "industry" is a significant contributor to the widening income and wealth gap in America and elsewhere. The business model and business practices of most multi-level marketing companies cause the financial losses, not normal competitive factors or the levels of efforts or talents of the participants.


MLM companies seek to obscure their devastating failure rates by disclosing the number only of "active" participants and limiting the income figures to a one-year or even shorter time frames, thus concealing the factor of the ongoing and mounting losses of new participants. If all the participants over a five-year period are included in the calculations, the failure rate rises even further. Less than one in one-thousand will be shown to have gained any profit at all. The so-called successes in MLM are in the same small group positioned, year after year, at the top of the recruitment organization.

The figures used in the analysis are from public documents of the companies themselves. The percentages and actual dollar figures have been extrapolated to a "per 10,000 sales representatives" in order to provide a more understandable picture and to match data of the companies analyzed. A larger sample is applied to the Amway/Quixtar data.


The copyrighted report is available in PDF format."

www.crimebustersnow.org (http://www.crimebustersnow.org/)

Click on the Pyramid and this part is under "News", I believe.

I have just added you to this group in Facebook if you are interested.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/shotline/

Great, thanks. I have read lots of Jon M Taylor's work, so I already know most of the numbers. But it's good to have some more bullets.

As for Facebook, I'm not to keen on exposing myself as a scam buster there more then necessary, but I'll think about it. I have done some posts on my profile on MLM, and will probably also continue.

What seems most important in the case of MLM seems to be to make people make informed decisions, meaning keeping them out of any MLM. Found this (http://business.ftc.gov/documents/inv08-bottom-line-about-multi-level-marketing-plans) from the FTC today. If every person approached by an MLM read this prior to his/her decision, things would be much different. The person trying to recruit me actually didn't want me to do my own research, as he didn't see it necessary. I can see why he wouldn't want me to.

scratchycat
11-26-2012, 11:55 AM
Great, thanks. I have read lots of Jon M Taylor's work, so I already know most of the numbers. But it's good to have some more bullets.

As for Facebook, I'm not to keen on exposing myself as a scam buster there more then necessary, but I'll think about it. I have done some posts on my profile on MLM, and will probably also continue.

What seems most important in the case of MLM seems to be to make people make informed decisions, meaning keeping them out of any MLM. Found this (http://business.ftc.gov/documents/inv08-bottom-line-about-multi-level-marketing-plans) from the FTC today. If every person approached by an MLM read this prior to his/her decision, things would be much different. The person trying to recruit me actually didn't want me to do my own research, as he didn't see it necessary. I can see why he wouldn't want me to.

Most definitely! These are good words of advice:

"Consider the Products

Many companies that market their products through distributors sell quality items at competitive prices. But some offer goods that are overpriced, have questionable merits, or are downright unsafe to use.

Find out what will you be selling. Are similar products on the market? Is the product priced competitively? Is it safe? Can your sponsor — the distributor who is recruiting you — support the claims about the product’s performance?

Almost any product or service could be sold through multilevel marketing, including health, beauty, and fitness products that aren't available on store shelves. Apply a healthy dose of skepticism before buying or selling products advertised as having "miracle" ingredients or guaranteed results. Many of these "quick cures" are unproven, fraudulently marketed, and useless. In fact, they could be dangerous. You may want to check with a health professional before using them — or selling them.

If you decide to buy into the program and promote the products, you must be sure your marketing materials are truthful and that there's solid evidence to back up the claims you make about the products. Before you repeat any claims the company has made, verify that there’s competent and reliable research to back them up. That’s the standard the FTC uses when evaluating advertising claims."

My experience with Herbalife taught me a thing or two. I had a friend who wanted to buy the products but I did not realize how much medication she was already on and she wound up having to see her doctor after taking some of the pills. Thank goodness no harm was done but it scared me. We should all be careful when mixing herbal treatments and prescription medication.

Zapticon
11-27-2012, 08:34 AM
Most definitely! These are good words of advice:

"Consider the Products

Many companies that market their products through distributors sell quality items at competitive prices. But some offer goods that are overpriced, have questionable merits, or are downright unsafe to use.

Find out what will you be selling. Are similar products on the market? Is the product priced competitively? Is it safe? Can your sponsor — the distributor who is recruiting you — support the claims about the product’s performance?

Almost any product or service could be sold through multilevel marketing, including health, beauty, and fitness products that aren't available on store shelves. Apply a healthy dose of skepticism before buying or selling products advertised as having "miracle" ingredients or guaranteed results. Many of these "quick cures" are unproven, fraudulently marketed, and useless. In fact, they could be dangerous. You may want to check with a health professional before using them — or selling them.

If you decide to buy into the program and promote the products, you must be sure your marketing materials are truthful and that there's solid evidence to back up the claims you make about the products. Before you repeat any claims the company has made, verify that there’s competent and reliable research to back them up. That’s the standard the FTC uses when evaluating advertising claims."

My experience with Herbalife taught me a thing or two. I had a friend who wanted to buy the products but I did not realize how much medication she was already on and she wound up having to see her doctor after taking some of the pills. Thank goodness no harm was done but it scared me. We should all be careful when mixing herbal treatments and prescription medication.

Scary experience there. Glad nothing crucial happened.

As for the products, I would first ask a person introduced if the products were good etc. Then I would ask this person if he/she really was interested in doing sales on low commission, as that is what it is. When people quit their education or day-time job, THAT'S when it's gone much too far. Some might find it good with some extra cash in a part time job selling products, no problem with that, as long as they focus on selling, not recruiting. I'm kind of old school here, but I see the affiliate marketing way the best way to do direct sales. You shouldn't need more than one level of distributors, it's not fair otherwise.

So even if the products are amazing, I still wouldn't suggest them to a friend because of how the commissions are paid out.

scratchycat
11-27-2012, 10:14 AM
Great, thanks. I have read lots of Jon M Taylor's work, so I already know most of the numbers. But it's good to have some more bullets.

As for Facebook, I'm not to keen on exposing myself as a scam buster there more then necessary, but I'll think about it. I have done some posts on my profile on MLM, and will probably also continue.

What seems most important in the case of MLM seems to be to make people make informed decisions, meaning keeping them out of any MLM. Found this (http://business.ftc.gov/documents/inv08-bottom-line-about-multi-level-marketing-plans) from the FTC today. If every person approached by an MLM read this prior to his/her decision, things would be much different. The person trying to recruit me actually didn't want me to do my own research, as he didn't see it necessary. I can see why he wouldn't want me to.

Sorry about that I was thinking of another member. Anyway the FB group has now vanished.

Soapboxmom
05-27-2013, 04:22 PM
http://d3trabu2dfbdfb.cloudfront.net/7/8/785945_300x300_1.jpeg
Judy Sterling



February 27, 1959 - November 18, 2010
Garland, Texas


Judy Gay Sterling, passed away suddenly in the early hours of Nov. 18th, 2010 during her 51st year. She served in the Air Force through much of Desert Storm. She was a long-time resident of Texas, working in the education and business fields. Judy will be remembered by her family, friends and daughter.

DFW National Cemetery
2000 Mountain Creek Parkway
Dallas TX, 75211
Judy proudly served our country before retiring from the military and being financially ruined by the scourge that is MLM. God Bless her for her service to our country!

Mundorf
06-04-2013, 11:04 AM
I was involved in MLM system 3 years long.It was not scam company.We had good product -car,property, life insurance and the company behind was Allianz group,very famous and old german insurance company.What I did not like was building up 5 (they called it Pentagon ) direct members in my downline.I did not know how costly it will be - meeting,traveling,hotels and all what comes along was out of my pocket.I learned very fast that you must explode the sales in your group if you want to stay in a business and earn some$ - it's like riding a horse on a thin ice..the speed goes down and you fall in cold water...MLM is a rocket where you need a lot of fuel (sales) if you want to get first cosmic speed...and that's the problem...you can't go below first cosmic speed...or you fall on mother Earth...MLM is
stress,MLM is expensive (both-time and money),MLM IS FORMULA 1..only few reach the highs..the army below works for them.

ribshaw
06-04-2013, 11:52 AM
I was involved in MLM system 3 years long.It was not scam company.We had good product -car,property, life insurance and the company behind was Allianz group,very famous and old german insurance company.What I did not like was building up 5 (they called it Pentagon ) direct members in my downline.I did not know how costly it will be - meeting,traveling,hotels and all what comes along was out of my pocket.I learned very fast that you must explode the sales in your group if you want to stay in a business and earn some$ - it's like riding a horse on a thin ice..the speed goes down and you fall in cold water...MLM is a rocket where you need a lot of fuel (sales) if you want to get first cosmic speed...and that's the problem...you can't go below first cosmic speed...or you fall on mother Earth...MLM is
stress,MLM is expensive (both-time and money),MLM IS FORMULA 1..only few reach the highs..the army below works for them.

This is true with a lot of MLM and sales jobs. Up to a certain point I would estimate you need to make double what you would at a job where you don't have to beat your car to death, pay for marketing expense and a grade a wardrobe. Once you get to a certain level of sales it matters less, but then these folks usually seem to load up on big houses, big cars and gaudy jewels to further the image.

BoBosworth56
06-04-2013, 12:04 PM
This is true with a lot of MLM and sales jobs. Up to a certain point I would estimate you need to make double what you would at a job where you don't have to beat your car to death, pay for marketing expense and a grade a wardrobe. Once you get to a certain level of sales it matters less, but then these folks usually seem to load up on big houses, big cars and gaudy jewels to further the image.

Agreed. When I was getting ready to graduate college I came across many jobs that offered commission. Well the problem with that was that they were commission only. Now if you have a job with a solid salary with commission on top of it then that isn't a bad thing at all.

Everyone should budget their incomes and expenses, with MLM and commission only jobs it is impossible to do that.

ribshaw
06-04-2013, 12:19 PM
Agreed. When I was getting ready to graduate college I came across many jobs that offered commission. Well the problem with that was that they were commission only. Now if you have a job with a solid salary with commission on top of it then that isn't a bad thing at all.

Everyone should budget their incomes and expenses, with MLM and commission only jobs it is impossible to do that.

It is really a catch 22, if you can sell, and I mean really sell the world is truly yours. A lot of the entry level jobs I see when I flip the classifieds are there every week. Auto dealerships, home improvement, on and on. If they took care of their folks and people made the incomes claimed then they would not be advertising every week. And some are just patently dishonest, there is one, if you don't mind speaking in front of small groups and making 6 figures part time call blah blah blah. Now how hard could that position be to fill?

Mundorf
06-04-2013, 05:30 PM
This is true with a lot of MLM and sales jobs. Up to a certain point I would estimate you need to make double what you would at a job where you don't have to beat your car to death, pay for marketing expense and a grade a wardrobe. Once you get to a certain level of sales it matters less, but then these folks usually seem to load up on big houses, big cars and gaudy jewels to further the image.

Egzactly...the hard side of MLM system is that it gives you very low commission when you start in first level so you are forced to recruit and get % from their sales and when you colect specific number of sales you jump in the second level where commission is still to low to make personal sales atractive so you are again forced to learn your below levels to recruit so that the whole structure keep pushing you in next level but all this in given time frame so if you are not fast enough you are out of game...besides there is always possibility that some of your downline just stop working...the system tend to take all your time and mind...you are never at home and if you have kids and you are married then you need really a super woman to understand your job and support it....well,one thing was awesome - payments were tidily managed - every month ,last week,on Tuesday on my drawing-account

Soapboxmom
11-18-2013, 07:08 PM
Today marks the 3rd anniversary of the suicide of my dearest friend Judy Sterling. Jack Weinzierl and Tim Darnell were the top goon and owner respectively of the pyramid scheme that ruined Judy financially and sent her into chapter 7 bankruptcy. That MLM scam was the beginning of the end for her. She could not get back on her feet financially and was rejected by her only child because of her MLM involvement. Last I heard Weinzierl is unemployed after being shown the door by AutoNation. Scammer Darnell is once again peddling snake oil with Isagenix and ensnaring many more innocent victims in the MLM trap.


Tweets





https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3677119688/9437e1b26fdd0a1483063358f44f6987_normal.jpeg Jack Weinzierl ‏@JackWeinzierl (https://twitter.com/JackWeinzierl) 13 Nov (https://twitter.com/JackWeinzierl/status/400618199378849792)
Silence your critics with your actions and character.

Reply (https://twitter.com/JackWeinzierl#)
Retweet (https://twitter.com/JackWeinzierl#)
Favorite (https://twitter.com/JackWeinzierl#)


Expand (https://twitter.com/JackWeinzierl/status/400618199378849792)
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3677119688/9437e1b26fdd0a1483063358f44f6987_normal.jpeg Jack Weinzierl ‏@JackWeinzierl (https://twitter.com/JackWeinzierl) 12 Nov (https://twitter.com/JackWeinzierl/status/400439158843662337)
If you do everything with a focus on excellence (not perfection), you immediately separate yourself from the masses. #refusemediocrity (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23refusemediocrity&src=hash)



Weinzierl took no action to help the many failing MLM reps who went hungry, lost their life savings, faced foreclosure and suffered due to losses in the sleazy deals he recruited them into. He has no character whatsoever and I will never be silenced. Weinzierl and Darnell should know the horror of the police coming to the door. The police informed me that the woman I loved as a sister had taken her life and we were the contact she had left for them. Imagine the horror my husband felt as he tried in vain to call her only child as Judy had requested so the news could come from him and not from the police. The police got hold of her child first and we got this:


My Dear Friends !#$% and Heather, November 17, 2010

I have provided a complete “Check List” of what to do step-by-step to contact my family,

etc. But first, just take a deep breath and read this letter together and give yourselves a

few minutes to process this. I think this will make the most sense if you read this letter

first then go to the document titled “Check List” which will lead you through all the other

documents I have provided in a logical manner.

FIRST- Please, Please, Please DO NOT take on ANY guilt about my decision. As I will

explain below, it had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what you did or didn’t say or

do or what you could have/should have done. Also, please do not allow my family to

put any guilt on you for any reason just because I was living here at the time. You guys

were great and took much better care of me than they were ever willing to do. Don’t let

them or even yourself place any guilt on you that you should have “seen” or “known”

what I was planning. I purposely was extremely careful not to drop a hint or leave any

information where you could find it and purposely maintained a very normal day to day

life. I am determined and do NOT want to be rescued or saved. I am perfectly content

with my decision. Also, please do NOT allow the hyper religious ones in my circle make

this out to be a thing of the devil or I’m going to hell - - I don’t believe that for a minute.

God knows my heart and understands all the details of my life. They DO NOT!!!

SECOND – You have my profuse gratitude for being exceptional people and amazing

friends! You have always treated me with respect, care and as if I was one of the family.

You’ve done everything you could for me short of giving me the master bedroom and

your wallet <Grins>.

You have been SO very kind in so many ways and SO willing to do everything possible

to help me get back on my feet. I am forever indebted to you for saving my storage unit,

especially the photos, Eileen’s school work, etc., that I want to pass onto her.

Over the years and during the time I have been in your home you have invested large

amounts of money in helping me and NEVER once made me feel guilty or as if I owed

you anything in return. You have no idea how freeing and relaxing that has been for

me. You were always so flexible and willing to help in any way. And the cooking is

awesome.

I am SO VERY, VERY thankful for the peaceful (emotionally not noise level – LOL)

haven you provided for me to just rest from all the craziness and stress of the past few

years while having time to put the photo albums, etc. together for Only Child.

THIRD - My decision was made the day I found out that Peggy had returned my

inheritance property to my brothers. Until that moment in time I had lived through some

horribly difficult and scary times, (without food, nearly homeless and fighting for my

health), struggling to balance making a living while trying to regain my health. And even

on my worst day I always had hope and found a way to press on.....

Only Child told me I could not have any place in her life or communicate with her what so

ever until I have a “regular” salaried job. Only Child also

wants me to have benefits and a retirement account.

Judy left detailed instructions for her service. She asked me to sing several songs, but I just couldn't stop the tears from flowing to honor that wish. I hope her story will keep others from getting involved in the scourge that is MLM and be a reminder to everyone that the reps that are losing money are victims. The people at the top of these deals know 97% or more will lose and are happy to lure in warm marks and relieve them of their money. Recruits may be desperate for money, or be deeply religious looking for a way to honor their beliefs. They may be doctors, lawyers, CPAs or other professional people who are unaware of the inherent fraud that is MLM. The real truth behind MLM must be shared. I don't want more Judys being buried or millions more being harmed financially and emotionally. How many more families have to be destroyed??? It is high time law enforcement act against these obvious scams and protect the public.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuE1XJ_uqOs

Luzer
11-22-2013, 03:19 PM
Today marks the 3rd anniversary of the suicide of my dearest friend Judy Sterling. Jack Weinzierl and Tim Darnell were the top goon and owner respectively of the pyramid scheme that ruined Judy financially and sent her into chapter 7 bankruptcy. That MLM scam was the beginning of the end for her. She could not get back on her feet financially and was rejected by her only child because of her MLM involvement. Last I heard Weinzierl is unemployed after being shown the door by AutoNation. Scammer Darnell is once again peddling snake oil with Isagenix and ensnaring many more innocent victims in the MLM trap.


Sympathies SBM. The folks that push their scam on others need to be stopped. Thanks for running this place where information can be found.

baylee
11-22-2013, 06:52 PM
The more people who read that moving letter the better they will understand the high crimes and price that the serial scammers cause and hopefully the judges will start to put the leaders and pimps underneath the jail and throw away the keys.

kschang
11-24-2013, 05:44 AM
Someone go read Kiyosaki on Amazon... It's hilarious.

I think it's at the bottom of Q&A for "Business for 21st Century", Kiyosaki's MLM Pimp Book.

Someone asked "What should I do if my family hates MLM and I'm not finding any success?"

You gotta read his response. He talks like one of those fortune tellers.

Luzer
11-25-2013, 06:36 PM
Someone go read Kiyosaki on Amazon... It's hilarious.

I think it's at the bottom of Q&A for "Business for 21st Century", Kiyosaki's MLM Pimp Book.

Someone asked "What should I do if my family hates MLM and I'm not finding any success?"

You gotta read his response. He talks like one of those fortune tellers.

Kiyosaki doesn't seem to know much about business or investing. Just another two bit scammer trying to sell seminars and books.

littleroundman
11-25-2013, 07:28 PM
Kiyosaki doesn't seem to know much about business or investing. Just another two bit scammer trying to sell seminars and books.

From back in 2010 here on REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com/f11/robert-kiyosaki-rich-dad-secrets-109/)

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/231/337b.jpg

(Not so)Mysteriously, much of the information linking Mr Kiyosaki and "Money and You" seems to have disappeared from the web.

laidback
11-26-2013, 02:35 PM
Someone go read Kiyosaki on Amazon... It's hilarious.

I think it's at the bottom of Q&A for "Business for 21st Century", Kiyosaki's MLM Pimp Book.

Someone asked "What should I do if my family hates MLM and I'm not finding any success?"

You gotta read his response. He talks like one of those fortune tellers.

LOL, like a politician or scam-artist, 111 words and didn't say a freaking thing!!! Kiyosaki couldn't find his A$$ with both hands in a room full of mirrors...!

Soapboxmom
11-18-2014, 07:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFjAXHmjxQk

Today is the fourth anniversary of Judy leaving us. I will never forget. Jack Weinzierl and Tim Darnell have Judy's blood on their hands. God bless our Judy and all the victims of financial fraud. I will continue to devote my life to exposing the scammers responsible for this horrific devastation.

Whip
11-18-2014, 09:17 PM
Amen Heather

OpenMindedSceptic
11-19-2014, 03:38 AM
OMG! Did you hear about the roofing guy who claimed there was a 30 year warranty on labor and materials, then after only two years the roof started leaking and he was nowhere to be found! All roofers must be scam artists ... according to these stories.

I am sorry to hear about these tragedies but using a paint bomb to smear all MLM businesses with them is just as despicable as those that caused the tragedies.

First of all, the person that scammed these people was a scammer and the MLM company may not have been aware of it.
Secondly not all MLM companies are the same and if a person did not do good research to see if the MLM is a member of the DSA and BBB with good standings, then they could be fooled.
Thirdly, blaming all MLM entrepreneurs and all MLM companies because some scam artists bilked some people out of their savings is insulting to every Legitimate MLM with entrepreneurs who follow good codes of conduct.
Lastly, if joining the MLM is based on an emotional decision after a hyped up motivational presentation followed by a selling frenzy, then it will likely be a sketchy line of sponsorship and possibly a sketchy company. If a person is pressured to sign anything without having time to learn more and get answers about the company and LOS, then that person should walk away ... or run ... or roll as is in my case!

A good MLM should take the complaint of the high pressure sales tactics and large volume purchase "requirement", then ; Ask for the products to be return at the cost of the sponsor/salesman, refund the full cost of order and charge the sponsor/salesman for any discrepancies and possibly revoke their license/affiliation. I know of an MLM that has done this and even canceled large numbers of licenses/affiliates when an entire line of sponsorship was discovered to be acting outside their code of conduct rules. It was a significant loss of income but it was the right thing to do to stop bad conduct.

I have also seen MLM companies that do not protect new business owners and pretend they don't know their lines of sponsorship are doing bad things because they are greedy and their shareholders are looking for dividends while the fad lasts. Most MLM companies with one or only a few products or gimmicks last less than 5 years. I know a major scam artist in my city that jumps on these as soon as he can, then moves his team to jump on and milks each one until it starts to wither then jumps ship and tells his team to jump, leaving chaos in their wake. He always makes the most but his team does well and don't care who gets hurt because they already made their money and got out before legal proceedings could take place and then claim they could tell something was wrong that is why they left. These are bad people doing bad things. When I discovered they were joining a venture I joined, I quit ASAP. Sure enough it was caught up and discovered to be sketchy, just not enough to shut down. I lost a bit but was well worth the lessons I learned and now know what to look for when approached by new ventures.

If the name of the MLM is not listed and/or person who committed the scam is not listed, then I will consider the claim to be incredible. I am working with a very credible MLM company right now but know others who chose other MLM companies that reduced benefits or missed payments before shutting down with or without external enforcement. I would be happy to name the MLM I have as my distributor but suspect it would just get their good name painted with this distrust.

Soapboxmom
11-19-2014, 08:03 AM
Welcome to a complete idiot. Jack Weinzierl and Tim Darnell have dozens of threads here and across the net. Darnell ran numerous big ticket conference scams that had no retail sales. Weinzierl was his scammerr-in-chief. They sued me and the BBB and lost. 98% of the reps lost money and many were out 20 grand or more. They lost everything.

MLM is a mth game and the vast majority are mathematically doomed to lose. Therefore all MLMs are scams. By all means, name the scam you promote and we will take a look ta the numbers. Then look at the scam that left Judy financially ruined and mentally and emotionally scarred.

shipdit
11-19-2014, 09:22 AM
@OpenMindedSkeptic

Every legitimate multi-level marketing firm I have ever been aware of rips off retail consumers by attempting to sell them products at grossly inflated prices in order to generate the funds necessary to pay commissions back up the chain to the top of the sales pyramid. There are always unsubstantiated claims of higher quality in an attempt to justify the price.

Illegitimate MLMs either assign value to a worthless (sometimes even imaginary) product, or spend the majority of their time selling the fantasy of quick wealth.

SD

.

ribshaw
11-19-2014, 10:44 AM
@OpenMindedSkeptic

Every legitimate multi-level marketing firm I have ever been aware of rips off retail consumers by attempting to sell them products at grossly inflated prices in order to generate the funds necessary to pay commissions back up the chain to the top of the sales pyramid. There are always unsubstantiated claims of higher quality in an attempt to justify the price.

I would echo this.


There is always the "my MLM is different", it would be nice to see your product portfolio with prices. Affiliate attrition rates complete with income statistics using mean, median, and mode. I just looked at a COMPANY DOCUMENT yesterday and ALL of this was missing, imagine what goes on in the field.

Self-Consumption is the hook, just buy it yourself and get others to do the same. People see so little value in the products they are offered almost a full 100% quit within a year or two, and by year five forget about it. If people who "own their own distribution business" can't even be convinced to buy their own paper towels, vitamins, super shakes, colon cleanse, and soap is there any wonder there is little to no true retail market?

Let's take the other side of the one company I can think of that does have a large "retail" salesforce. There is almost no insurance company that a consumer could go to that does not have lower term insurance rates that Primerica. More than that is this, Life-Insurance Licensing Test Is Too Hard, Biased, Primerica Says - WSJ (http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704474804576222623448640098). What should that say to would be consumers? Then of course there is the whole make a list of your family and friends so we can show them the great opportunity you are involved with. Everyone loves Turkey Day that much more when a member of the family has something to sell.

MLM has refused to clean up its own house for years on end.

As for crooked roofers, I don't think anyone who posts here would stand for that either. Most roofers I know don't put a roof on your house, invite you to a meeting at the Ramada and then spend three hours claiming you too can be a roofer if you just buy a start up kit for $395, some RDPD books, and list 100 families you know that may have a roof.

Char
11-19-2014, 10:14 PM
OMG! Did you hear about the roofing guy who claimed there was a 30 year warranty on labor and materials, then after only two years the roof started leaking and he was nowhere to be found! All roofers must be scam artists ... according to these stories.


NO, NO AND NO. "Openmindedsceptic's" entire post highlights why so many victims are lured in. The thought process is all wrong and one of the biggest mistakes people make regarding MLM - It's a mindset that has been purposely orchestrated by MLM founders and refined to a point where even high achievers have been duped.

"Labor and materials"

The roofer's method of installing the shingles was flawed not the shingles. All roofers who used his method would in fact be shoddy roofers/scammers even if they used a different brand of shingle.

"Distribution and product"

The affiliate's method of distributing product is MLM. The product is insignificant if the method/system is flawed. An inferior product just makes it worse.

Fact is, MLM is inherently flawed which explains the near 100% failure rate. Specifics can be found in other posts.

If only more people could comprehend this!:RpS_sad:

SBM you're an amazing friend STILL.

OpenMindedSceptic
11-19-2014, 10:52 PM
...
Fact is, MLM is inherently flawed which explains the near 100% failure rate. Specifics can be found in other posts.

If only more people could comprehend this!:RpS_sad:
...


That is just stupid and there is no cure for it. >.<

100% of the people who quit, fail.

In one MLM, thousands of people have become debt free and hundreds have replaced their income. I am friends with a number of people who have helped dozens of singles and couples get debt free and replace at least one income. Not a single one of these people had special skills or affiliations before they started at $0 but every one followed the plan and those that tried harder succeeded quicker. Not everybody has the will to change their broken mindset in order to become an entrepreneur and that is all it takes. Show me one person who failed in an MLM who is successful as an entrepreneur in a non MLM field and I will show you someone who is concerned more about themselves than others.

If the only people on here are idiots who have nothing better to do than display their ignorance, this is the wrong site for me.

littleroundman
11-19-2014, 11:19 PM
this is the wrong site for me.

If you are prone to making statements like that - there's not much doubt you're right.

CYA and a very Merry Christmas to you and yours.

kath
11-20-2014, 01:06 AM
i would say that "openmindedskeptic" showed the true agenda they had all along--pro mlm period which would seem to make their moniker a huge oxymoron- anything BUT open minded or skeptical!
and lets not forget all the devastated broken relationships these mlm scam artists leave in their wake!

littleroundman
11-20-2014, 03:29 AM
100% of the people who quit, fail.

100% of people who DON't quit trying to climb Mt Everest in their underpants die.

"Quitting" trying to do something you've been lied to about isn't "quitting" at all, it''s facing reality, free from the influence and Jedi mind tricks of trained recruiters.

How did it come about that so many millions of MLM recruits all have the same misguided belief about how easy it is / would be to earn squillions of dollars in multi level marketing if they hadn't been told by someone ???

If "following the plan" is a guarantee of success, why is it Amway IBOs dropped that spiel years ago ??

If the companies and / or recruiters involved had been open, honest and transparent, would there be 1) as many recruits 2) as many disappointed recruits 3) as many dropouts

Osmosis ????

The hundredth monkey theory ??

ribshaw
11-20-2014, 10:47 AM
100% of the people who quit, fail.

It's unfortunate that MLM'rz never seem able to engage in any conversation beyond "happy talk motivational platitudes". People who DON"T QUIT a bad situation if they can are IDIOTS. In my early teens I washed dishes and scrubbed toilets, following your logic I failed since I quit, several times. Like any rational person I looked at my current situation and once I could trade up I did, several times.

Your quote misses the bigger point that MLM is often pitched as 10 hours a week with full time income just buying from yourself--oh and show two others to do the same. Tell your recruits that greater than 99% will lose money after time and expenses then let's see how many bother to start.

8696

Shocking MLM statistics (http://mlm-thetruth.com/research/mlm-statistics/shocking-stats/)





In one MLM, thousands of people have become debt free and hundreds have replaced their income. I am friends with a number of people who have helped dozens of singles and couples get debt free and replace at least one income.


AGAIN YOU SAY. Where are the numbers? One thing that jumped out right away is you claim you "have friends who have helped", not YOU HAVE HELPED. That is a huge difference if for no other reason than it does not disclose your income, or provide the veracity of second hand stories. If you sold How to Win the Lottery courses on the web to 100,000 people, no doubt you could find a few hundred that cash tickets for middling amounts. If you sold 20,00,000 courses every year eventually you could find someone who won a massive jackpot. Following your logic it is reasonable to point to that small group of people and say see how well my system works. Just don't quit playing the lottery and you will never be a loser.

Complete disregard for the 99% that make no money after T&E. In a "good" MLM maybe that gets as low as 95%, where 4% make around minimum wage after T&E.


================================================== ===========

As if not making money in MLM is not bad enough. Affiliates are often convinced they need to run up debt, lease expensive cars, wear fancy clothes and accessories that give the air of success. This is a double whammy for many. Rather than making cash immediately and being able to bank it or pay down debt, often MLM'erz spend years on a dream, and end up 1000$ in debt.

But what about the LEADERS that are often trotted out on stage as if they were gods? Let's just say I don't believe anything money without independently audited financial statements. But if you take it on the sound of some upbeat music and a few speed boat videos, well it is a free country.


Amway Triple Diamond Bankrupt (http://www.amquix.info/duncan_bankrupt.html)

Married to an Ambot: Amway Diamonds Are Broke (http://marriedtoanambot.blogspot.com/2013/03/amway-diamonds-are-broke.html)

The Salty Droid – The Burton Affairs (http://saltydroid.info/the-burton-affairs/)

Michael Burton | Herbalife Pyramid Scheme (http://www.herbalifepyramidscheme.com/perpetrators/michael-burton/)




Not a single one of these people had special skills or affiliations before they started at $0 but every one followed the plan and those that tried harder succeeded quicker. Not everybody has the will to change their broken mindset in order to become an entrepreneur and that is all it takes.

Motivational Claptrap.

Almost everyone has their own X factor(s) that gives them success in one area and failure in others. There are a whole host of things I personally can't do and I hardly think that is a broken mindset. I could stand and practice free throws every day for the rest of my life and would be lucky to qualify for a JV team.



Show me one person who failed in an MLM who is successful as an entrepreneur in a non MLM field and I will show you someone who is concerned more about themselves than others.

MLM "success" is predicated on getting 99% of the people below you to buy as much crap from you as possible. Ask Dexter Yeager http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Amway/dexter-yager-2.txt why he set up his own motivational tool publishing business.

Again, would be happy to look at some verifiable retail numbers from your MLM, but I suspect being concerned with others may mean something different to you and I.



If the only people on here are idiots who have nothing better to do than display their ignorance, this is the wrong site for me.

This may or may not be the wrong site for you, seems like someone blew a lot of smoke up your ass about MLM. Maybe if you actually put up the hard numbers, and stopped with the Tony Robbins you might see what you are up against. Then again maybe you are knocking back 6 FIG$ and curing cancer with your latest multivitamin.

For the casual reader, when a "friend" from high school calls out of the blue to discuss an "opportunity", well I suppose that is who this site serves. Will it prompt them to ask hard questions and demand data? Or will they think "they have a poster of an eagle with a fish in its mouth", this must be a great opportunity?

Whip
11-20-2014, 10:55 AM
Not a single one of these people had special skills or affiliations before they started at $0 but every one followed the plan and those that tried harder succeeded quicker. Not everybody has the will to change their broken mindset in order to become an entrepreneur and that is all it takes.

you will never get me to buy overpriced mlm crap. you have failed. see how that works?

littleroundman
11-20-2014, 10:58 AM
As if not making money in MLM is not bad enough. Affiliates are often convinced they need to run up debt, lease expensive cars, wear fancy clothes and accessories that give the air of success.

Ah yes, the old "Fake it till you make it" MLMers' mantra in action.

Translated into English it reads "If you can't be successful in MLM, at least make it look like you are"

Soapboxmom
11-18-2016, 05:34 PM
Today is the 6th anniversary of Judy S' suicide.


Ecclesiastes 12:12-14 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+12%3A12-14&version=ESV) ESV / 15 helpful votes

.... Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.

Hebrews 4:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4%3A13&version=ESV) ESV / 14 helpful votes

And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

John 3:19-21 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3%3A19-21&version=ESV) ESV / 8 helpful votes

And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

We will never forget. Those who ruined her financially and destroyed so many other lives will face Judgment Day!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE2muDZksP4
But no mercy or rest for the wicked!

path2prosperity
11-18-2016, 05:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFjAXHmjxQk

Today is the fourth anniversary of Judy leaving us. I will never forget. Jack Weinzierl and Tim Darnell have Judy's blood on their hands. God bless our Judy and all the victims of financial fraud. I will continue to devote my life to exposing the scammers responsible for this horrific devastation.

Congratulations for your stand against the perpetrators of these cons Heather.