http://secureinvestment.com. Managed Forex Account?

[CharlieGraham]

Has anyone seen this? Better yet, has anyone gave them money to invest?


Has similar stench as investonline.net..

[CharlieGraham]

Heads up, there's also a LOT of youtube video testimonials of secureinvestment.com kind of sounds shady almost like amateur actors.

[littleroundman]

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/LITTLE_ROUND_MAN/secure1_zpsb30c9614.jpg

Average 1.2% a day, Eh ??

That's 438% a year.

Anyone who believes returns like that are possible is determined to lose their money and there's nothing any of us can do to prevent it.

Why doesn't Bill Gates invest a million with them and make $437 million profit in a year ??

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/LITTLE_ROUND_MAN/secure2_zpsbb562c2b.jpg

Oh, based in Hong Kong as well.

Good luck getting money back if something goes wrong

Actually, good luck getting any money even if NOTHING goes wrong

[littleroundman]

How interesting:

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag116/Little_Roundman/scams/invalid2_zpsf5d66d10.jpg

http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag116/Little_Roundman/scams/invalid_zps4570a3f4.jpg

[Whip]

a lot of horseshit scam press releases like this one:

The new era of rich: Money made easy online with secureinvestment.com (http://www.emailwire.com/release/printPR.php?prID=127845)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Whip412/Capture3_zps9670fbe9.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Whip412/media/Capture3_zps9670fbe9.jpg.html)

[ribshaw]

Apparently this is their head trader.

7219

[calebjor]

I have registered for a Visitor pass before I can visit their company's office today at One International Finance Centre Reception. Then I use the elevator to get to floor 20. Then I ask a Receptionist about a "Keystone Union Limited." She goes to check to see if there is such company. I waited for about 5 minutes and she later come back out and said to me that there is no such company called "Keystone Union Limited." Below is my Visitor pass screenshots as a proof that I have tried to visit "Keystone Union Limited" company's office.

http://i.imgur.com/PG80xsu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/iUyinKI.jpg

WHOIS Search Result For secureinvestment.com (Screenshot 1):
http://i.imgur.com/KvPmhEE.jpg

Keystone Union Limited is not located on the 20th floor. Why would the Registrant state 20th floor? I think the Admin of Secure Investment is not being truthful. I wonder who will invest into their investment package(s) when the Admin of Secure Investment is not being honest to Visitors and Investors.

WHOIS Search Result For secureinvestment.com (Screenshot 2):
http://i.imgur.com/b4TIUnK.jpg

General Questions (Screenshot 1):
http://i.imgur.com/ZlIe8tV.jpg

Company Name Search Result (Screenshot 1):
http://i.imgur.com/sJGcsTZ.jpg

Company Particulars Search (Screenshot 1):
http://i.imgur.com/ApwIYUm.jpg

[ribshaw]

I have registered for a Visitor pass before I can visit their company's office today at One International Finance Centre Reception. Then I use the elevator to get to floor 20. Then I ask a Receptionist about a "Keystone Union Limited." She goes to check to see if there is such company. I waited for about 5 minutes and she later come back out and said to me that there is no such company called "Keystone Union Limited." Below is my Visitor pass screenshots as a proof that I have tried to visit "Keystone Union Limited" company's office.

That is a good find, guess they figure they can gather enough money without paying for a fake office.

Investments: Con artists selling investment scams and pyramid schemes need an office to show that they business has a solid base. Often, these offices are borrowed from legit businesses or rented for short periods of time. This style of big store can be found in the films Grifters and The Spanish Prisoner.

http://scams.wikispaces.com/The+Big+Store

[NikSam]

"licensed and fully comply with laws of Hong Kong" ????

- NOPE


7244

Caleb, go ask SFC , how that crap is licensed :) - Against intermediaries and market activities | Securities & Futures Commission of Hong Kong (http://www.sfc.hk/web/EN/lodge-a-complaint/against-intermediaries-and-market-activities.html)

[NikSam]

If you look at video testimonials of all happy investors : https://www.youtube.com/user/secureinvest/videos

Did they all really invested and so excited ?

Lets for example pick one guy, this:
7247

Here is his testimonial on SI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi29aLcDVE0

So, if he is fake, how much would it cost to lie ?

- just $5 :)

7248
URL: make a Video Testimonial for Website or Product - fiverr (http://www.fiverr.com/eddycloyd/do-a-one-minute-video-testimonial-website-or-product-review)

Want to play more ?
pick any from testimonials and you will likely find that person on fiverr (http://www.fiverr.com/categories/video-animation/buy-video-testimonials/),
but i think its unnecessary.

[NikSam]

Panama (where they claimed they based in, before HK) declared them illegally operating.

7250
URL: WARNING (http://www.supervalores.gob.pa/informacion-del-mercado/alerta-al-inversionista/4328-warning--non-authorized-entity--keystone-marketing-corp.html)

[Rimzz2014]

Hi All,

I can confirm based on my recent experience with this company that they are indeed a BIG SCAM.
I've always had my doubts, due to their operation model, but without any conclusive evidence on any forum, mixed with conflicting reports which neither proved legitimacy or scam, and just a few claiming they have received their money, I wanted to know once and for all (despite the risk), especially as I am not one for tarnishing any company’s name on a whim.

I have a $1,000 account currently showing $121 interest, but just over 2 weeks ago I did a Bank Transfer for $9,000 in order to integrate and start a $10,000 account with reduced performance fees. The $9,000 still isn't showing in my account and their Finance and Customer Services departments have ignored ALL 4 emails that I sent them, bearing in mind their policy states that, if your money isn't showing after 5 business days, email their Finance Department who will respond within 48 hours. Using their chat portal also, I was told twice that they have "prioritized" my emails, but I never received any replies.

I am now trying to recall the money through my bank, but there are no guarantees. However, I'll keep you updated with any new development.

I shall post this to other forums as well so that this scam is stopped once and for all.

[littleroundman]

Hi All,

I can confirm based on my recent experience with this company that they are indeed a BIG SCAM.
I've always had my doubts, due to their operation model, but without any conclusive evidence on any forum, mixed with conflicting reports which neither proved legitimacy or scam, and just a few claiming they have received their money, I wanted to know once and for all (despite the risk), especially as I am not one for tarnishing any company’s name on a whim.

I have a $1,000 account currently showing $121 interest, but just over 2 weeks ago I did a Bank Transfer for $9,000 in order to integrate and start a $10,000 account with reduced performance fees. The $9,000 still isn't showing in my account and their Finance and Customer Services departments have ignored ALL 4 emails that I sent them, bearing in mind their policy states that, if your money isn't showing after 5 business days, email their Finance Department who will respond within 48 hours. Using their chat portal also, I was told twice that they have "prioritized" my emails, but I never received any replies.

I am now trying to recall the money through my bank, but there are no guarantees. However, I'll keep you updated with any new development.

I shall post this to other forums as well so that this scam is stopped once and for all.

Hiya, Rimzz2014 and welcome to REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com)

We're extremely sorry to hear of your losses.

Unfortunately, what you're describing is the classic way this type of fraud and fraudsters operate.

First they pay you small amounts of "interest" until they gain your trust so you will invest larger amounts and then they disappear with the dough.

People forget, even if the fraudsters are paying you 1% daily "interest" it will take 100 days before you get back your initial investment

Usually what happens is after a month or two of regular payments, any initial misgivings on the part of the investor are gone and they are then willing to invest a larger amount, as you did.

2 months, or 60 days of 1% per day interest only returns 60% of the victims' initial investment, so they don't even get their original money back, much less any of the secondary amount.

It's sad, but very, very common and is the reason REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com) exists, so that victims such as yourself can warn others.

[housebuilder]

Hi All,

I can confirm based on my recent experience with this company that they are indeed a BIG SCAM.
I've always had my doubts, due to their operation model, but without any conclusive evidence on any forum, mixed with conflicting reports which neither proved legitimacy or scam, and just a few claiming they have received their money, I wanted to know once and for all (despite the risk), especially as I am not one for tarnishing any company’s name on a whim.

I have a $1,000 account currently showing $121 interest, but just over 2 weeks ago I did a Bank Transfer for $9,000 in order to integrate and start a $10,000 account with reduced performance fees. The $9,000 still isn't showing in my account and their Finance and Customer Services departments have ignored ALL 4 emails that I sent them, bearing in mind their policy states that, if your money isn't showing after 5 business days, email their Finance Department who will respond within 48 hours. Using their chat portal also, I was told twice that they have "prioritized" my emails, but I never received any replies.

I am now trying to recall the money through my bank, but there are no guarantees. However, I'll keep you updated with any new development.

I shall post this to other forums as well so that this scam is stopped once and for all.

Hello Rimzz2014,

Just interested to know if you did manage to get your money back using your bank? or indeed if it did eventually get into your SI account and that they did finally email you.
The reason I ask is that I have been looking into investing, but I also have not had any replies to my emails. When I contacted them via chat I was told that they were overloaded with work preparing their soon to be released updated website and platform.

[ribshaw]

Hello Rimzz2014,

Just interested to know if you did manage to get your money back using your bank?

If you go to your bank and tell them you have been a victim of fraud they may be able to walk you through the process of reversing the wire. But don't hold your breath that you will ever seen that money again.

[NikSam]

... I have been looking into investing...

seriously? after all you read here ?

well, just burn that money you will feel more pleasure out of it.

[siamfx]

Has anyone seen this? Better yet, has anyone gave them money to invest?


Has similar stench as investonline.net..

Never invest in any investment company that doesn't have audited results.
Testimonials , screenshots, backoffice logins into your investment accounts can all be easily faked.
My trading firm [name removed by admin] displays real time performance through audited company 3rd party Myfxbook to verify that the Forex Trading results are 100% Real.
There are no safe and secure investments in Forex, You have to RISK capital to earn money, That's why its called RiskCapital.
Never wire transfer money to an investment firm. You send the funds to your Forex Broker, and the account manager trades on your behalf for a performance fee.

ADMIN NOTE: forum is for discussion, not disguised spamming of company names, thank you

[ribshaw]

This was a pretty good article. Seems I read somewhere that there might be a problem with investing in online sites halfway around the world that claim to have magical trading powers. Can't think of where that might have been.:RpS_confused::RpS_confused::RpS_confused:


Forex Investors May Face $1 Billion Loss as Trade Site Vanishes - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-13/forex-investors-may-face-1-billion-loss-as-trade-site-vanishes.html)



Never invest in any investment company that doesn't have audited results.

Let's expand on this and lose the nonsense of someone trying to sell an internet rating service and who knows what else.

Never invest your money anywhere that it can't be INDEPENDENTLY VERIFIED and DISPERSED. As in if you have someone managing money for you they don't get to create the statements, accept the deposits, and handle the withdraws. The story above and 10,000s of thousands of scams each year provide the reason why.

More to the point though, audited past performance means next to nothing. Or let's say good past performance means next to nothing. A great multi-year track record as a manager has seldom proven to be a predictor of their future returns. A manager that has continually underperformed their benchmark is probably not a great bet either.

Consider: The Morningstar mutual fund rating 5 star ranking attracts lots of new investors and lots fresh dollars. The primary factor in the rating is (can you believe it?) past performance. This despite a Morningstar study that found 5 star funds mostly underperform — my assumption is it’s a case of simple mean reversion. As it turns out, the fund’s expense ratio is a much better predictor of performance. Top 10 Investor Errors: Past Performance vs Future Results | The Big Picture (http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/07/top-10-investor-errors-past-performance-vs-future-results/)

That is a simple real rating system. There is nothing stopping Wall Street from launching 5 funds, waiting a few years and merging all the funds into the 1 that performed best and claim what geniuses they are. The strong reason for Survivorship Bias Definition | Investopedia (http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/survivorshipbias.asp)

Never mind all the tricks people who really want to steal your money can employ to make themselves seem like master traders.

[hamayooon4u]

you people so strange, why you not consult with someone.. so strange people you are.. whenever you decide then consult with me always...skype: XXXXXXXX

Hi All,

I can confirm based on my recent experience with this company that they are indeed a BIG SCAM.
I've always had my doubts, due to their operation model, but without any conclusive evidence on any forum, mixed with conflicting reports which neither proved legitimacy or scam, and just a few claiming they have received their money, I wanted to know once and for all (despite the risk), especially as I am not one for tarnishing any company’s name on a whim.

I have a $1,000 account currently showing $121 interest, but just over 2 weeks ago I did a Bank Transfer for $9,000 in order to integrate and start a $10,000 account with reduced performance fees. The $9,000 still isn't showing in my account and their Finance and Customer Services departments have ignored ALL 4 emails that I sent them, bearing in mind their policy states that, if your money isn't showing after 5 business days, email their Finance Department who will respond within 48 hours. Using their chat portal also, I was told twice that they have "prioritized" my emails, but I never received any replies.

I am now trying to recall the money through my bank, but there are no guarantees. However, I'll keep you updated with any new development.

I shall post this to other forums as well so that this scam is stopped once and for all.

[NikSam]

you people so strange, why you not consult with someone.. so strange people you are.. whenever you decide then consult with me always...skype: macliteriint

Why ? you would recommend them another ponzi to join under you?

[littleroundman]

you people so strange, why you not consult with someone.. so strange people you are.. whenever you decide then consult with me always...skype: XXXXXXXX

Help a poor boy out here, hayamoon4u,

how would you guys in Pakistan say "go away you silly little scammer" ??

[Realname]

Average 1.2% a day, Eh ??

That's 438% a year.

Anyone who believes returns like that are possible is determined to lose their money and there's nothing any of us can do to prevent it.

Why doesn't Bill Gates invest a million with them and make $437 million profit in a year ??



Average of 1,2% a day its really possible in trading. The problem is not about unrealistic returns but trust someone you never know who is to manage your money and do all the hard work for you and give you profits... A wise fx investor do it with pamm because it gives a guarantee that trader cannot run away with investors money. Money in that system can only be used in trading.

And Bill Gates is not a skilled trader and only few people in this world are. That's why trading is not any secure investment and not suitable for most people.

[shipdit]

Average of 1,2% a day its really possible in trading
Possible in one day?
Absolutely.

Possible every day for a week?
Mmm ... yep, and what a week it would be!

Possible to produce a daily average like that for a month?
Yes, if your lucky stars line up just right.

But,

The most successful traders/investors in the world have produced returns averaging 30% per year for multiple years.

The non-existent "trader" that you erroneously believe exists would be a household name and on the cover of every respected financial periodical ... if he existed.

He does not.

SD

.

[NikSam]

... A wise fx investor do it with pamm because it gives a guarantee that trader cannot run away with investors money. Money in that system can only be used in trading.
...

First of all, every PAMM manager, as any investment soliciting public, must be licensed, otherwise he is exposing himself to serious charges. A Serious , law–abiding manager would never expose himself and money he manages to such risks.

Second, if a trader cannot run away, the forex–broker always can :) , after all you just sending money to an offshore and playing with charts on some site which does not even have a license to have you as a trader and definitely not as an investor, breaking serious laws.

[Realname]

Possible in one day?
Absolutely.

Possible every day for a week?
Mmm ... yep, and what a week it would be!

Possible to produce a daily average like that for a month?
Yes, if your lucky stars line up just right.

But,

The most successful traders/investors in the world have produced returns averaging 30% per year for multiple years.

The non-existent "trader" that you erroneously believe exists would be a household name and on the cover of every respected financial periodical ... if he existed.

He does not.

SD

.

That's not the most sucessfully traders in this world. That's the average of wise traders that earn about 30% year. There are few number of people from CB's who have exclusive info and makes lots of money. Many do it ilegally but authorities rarelly bust them because lots of money can buy your freedom. That's how this market world works!

[Realname]

First of all, every PAMM manager, as any investment soliciting public, must be licensed, otherwise he is exposing himself to serious charges. A Serious , law–abiding manager would never expose himself and money he manages to such risks.

Second, if a trader cannot run away, the forex–broker always can :) , after all you just sending money to an offshore and playing with charts on some site which does not even have a license to have you as a trader and definitely not as an investor, breaking serious laws.

Pamm manager is just a worker of a licensed forex broker so if the company he is working for is licensed there's no problem at all!

It's important to pick only credible and reputable brokers fully licensed and regulated in your region. These brokers are operating in legal way since online retail forex trading began. That's why a wise trader should alaways care about the best regulation which can suits his needs.

[NikSam]

One more point, in alot of forex–kitchens, the successful PAMM managers were insiders or broker ran bots.
Any monitoring system would show the perfect score on those, that is because the data is fed from the forex–kitchen which is on it.

You have to ask yourself, why such successful traders cannot reproduce same results trading in other Forex Brokers.

As an example, can look at MMCIS, where "the top traders" Kondakov, Berezhnoy, Volkov never had a record before MMCIS.
And after MMCIS , Kondakov said he is leaving forex forever, Berezhnoy is looking for a new broker (while accepting suckers to mange their money).
Volkov could not ever reproduce the same performance, and the rest from the TOP 20 who i tracked down are actually showing big minuses.

I wrote about how they manipulated the stats here: http://www.realscam.com/f8/forex-mmcis-com-scam-2925/index3.html#post78082

[NikSam]

Pamm manager is just a worker of a licensed forex broker so if the company he is working for is licensed there's no problem at all!

It's important to pick only credible and reputable brokers fully licensed and regulated in your region. These brokers are operating in legal way since online retail forex trading began. That's why a wise trader should always care about the best regulation which can suits his needs.

You are wrong, PAMM manager is just a client of the broker, and he must be licensed as he is making decisions how to manage public funds, not the broker.

Another thing you seem to believe in some mythical retail forex market, it does not exists.
You are just betting on currency rates at the forex kitchen. When you trade a pair you might think that some guy on the other side of the world took your offer, but not, your broker is the one who went on the opposite side of your bet, your trade never even left the kitchen.
How they work: Statistically most forex traders loose their money during 1 year of trading, at any "forex broker" 90% of traders doomed to loose their money.
It is a casino, but for this casino's owner much better odds than the casino. Now when things go bad for the casino, like a lot of traders make and withdraw the profits, thats when manipulations scripts and withdrawal denials start.

There is no authority in the world, who monitors, audits, controls and punishes such retail forex brokers (who i just call forex kitchen).
The most close thing to regulation happened in U.S. , where every their licensed forex broker must report EACH trade, something like an exchange but not,
he is under the microscope, etc,
never-less manipulations still happen, you can see that almost every US licensed fx broker was fined for manipulation.

The forex kitchen does not care how much traders make or loose, they only care how much deposits coming in and how many withdrawals coming out, the rest is smoke and mirrors. in U.S. fx brokers must open a segregated clearing account for each trader at the 3rd party institution, and the settlements of broker with that account happens at the end of each day, broker is restricted to just go and take the money from it, he has to report all trades and balances to clearing so the clearing makes the transfers, have you ever seen anything like that at any other "licensed and regulated" offshore brokers ?


In any other jurisdiction , which licenses and regulates FX, is just a joke and BS, they just print the licenses and do absolutely nothing to enforce some order or control. i think that the only condition is the company has to maintain some reserve fund and the company founding initial capital must be rated high, and of course pay the hefty fees to those regulators :)

[NikSam]

Realname, BTW, are you russian speaking by any chance? I can show you a good 1h video about forex kitchens and how manipulations are done.

[Blue Wolf]

Average of 1,2% a day its really possible in trading.



Let us know when those people making 1.2% a day have more money than Warren Buffett.

8823

[Realname]

You are wrong, PAMM manager is just a client of the broker, and he must be licensed as he is making decisions how to manage public funds, not the broker.

Another thing you seem to believe in some mythical retail forex market, it does not exists.
You are just betting on currency rates at the forex kitchen. When you trade a pair you might think that some guy on the other side of the world took your offer, but not, your broker is the one who went on the opposite side of your bet, your trade never even left the kitchen.
How they work: Statistically most forex traders loose their money during 1 year of trading, at any "forex broker" 90% of traders doomed to loose their money.
It is a casino, but for this casino's owner much better odds than the casino. Now when things go bad for the casino, like a lot of traders make and withdraw the profits, thats when manipulations scripts and withdrawal denials start.

There is no authority in the world, who monitors, audits, controls and punishes such retail forex brokers (who i just call forex kitchen).
The most close thing to regulation happened in U.S. , where every their licensed forex broker must report EACH trade, something like an exchange but not,
he is under the microscope, etc,
never-less manipulations still happen, you can see that almost every US licensed fx broker was fined for manipulation.

The forex kitchen does not care how much traders make or loose, they only care how much deposits coming in and how many withdrawals coming out, the rest is smoke and mirrors. in U.S. fx brokers must open a segregated clearing account for each trader at the 3rd party institution, and the settlements of broker with that account happens at the end of each day, broker is restricted to just go and take the money from it, he has to report all trades and balances to clearing so the clearing makes the transfers, have you ever seen anything like that at any other "licensed and regulated" offshore brokers ?


In any other jurisdiction , which licenses and regulates FX, is just a joke and BS, they just print the licenses and do absolutely nothing to enforce some order or control. i think that the only condition is the company has to maintain some reserve fund and the company founding initial capital must be rated high, and of course pay the hefty fees to those regulators :)

There are many forex scams on the web but still there are few truth ECN brokers in which you can trade for real without being scammed by bucket shops and market makers.

And not all licenses and regulations are the same. Even a US regulated broker can be worse than an EU regulated broker because in EU traders can freely implement their strategies without some existing limitations in NFA brokers. Its your choice to pick the best broker for yourself and of course all brokers even in those most reputed like FXCM, Saxo bank, Alpari there are always manipulations. Even in NYSE manipulations also occurs. It's the market's nature! Market its a complex system with its own logic and you should know how it really works if you want to profit from it.

[NikSam]

There are many forex scams on the web but still there are few truth ECN brokers in which you can trade for real without being scammed by bucket shops and market makers.

And not all licenses and regulations are the same. Even a US regulated broker can be worse than an EU regulated broker because in EU traders can freely implement their strategies without some existing limitations in NFA brokers. Its your choice to pick the best broker for yourself and of course all brokers even in those most reputed like FXCM, Saxo bank, Alpari there are always manipulations. Even in NYSE manipulations also occurs. It's the market's nature! Market its a complex system with its own logic and you should know how it really works if you want to profit from it.

You see? you still continue to believe in the forex myths, probably saw some commercials, read "smart" books , strategies.
When the answer is simple, there are no centralized ECNs , theere are nobody who monitors EU brokers (nobody at all).
Do not confuse interbank exchanges, where regular joes would never have access to with forex kitchen sites.

FX ECNs as you call them, is just poor attempts to combine several kitchens into network. They are not overseen by anyone as well, and they doomed for failure, because kitchens do not really need that network :) They can join some, but just so they can proudly tell their clients "We are part of interbank" BS, and continue business as usual.

There is a simple thing when it comes to trading. If someone collects money for you to trade, there are absolutely nobody who regulates/oversees the trades, and there are thousands ways under those conditions to cheat you – You will be cheated. Counting that one of those by some miracle turns to be the honest one is naive.
They just need to make you feel that loosing the money is all your fault, and the scheme can continue forever.


BTW, Alpari as you mentioned, is not licensed at all , even not in offshore. Just dudes from russia :)

[littleroundman]

.......................

That's not the most sucessfully traders in this world. SOME FACTS WOULD BE NICE

That's the average of wise traders that earn about 30% year. NO, THAT IS THE WORLDS' MOST SUCCESSFUL INVESTOR, WARREN BUFFETT

There are few number of people from CB's who have exclusive info and makes lots of money. NICE FAIRY TALE. GOT ANY NAMES FOR US ???

Many do it ilegally SO WHAT, YOU ARE ADVISING PEOPLE TO GET INTO ILLEGAL FOREX NOW ??

but authorities rarelly bust them because lots of money can buy your freedom. OH PLEASE. WANT TO TRY THAT AGAIN SANS CONSPIRACY THEORY

That's how this market world works! MAYBE IN YOUR WORLD. NOT FOR THE REST OF US, THOUGH

[NikSam]

Realname, also you forgetting, in US forex is dead. There is just no need for it. FX is huge only in eastern europe and asia, where they just discovered recently this anarchy. Explosion of Russian FX brokers (most online Fx brokers are russian) correlates very close with 2007 ban of casinos in Russia (and the strict 2009 ban which followed). I can even tell you who is behind most of those russian brokers.
(mobsters and ex-casino owners ;) )

US has very well developed stocks and commodities exchanges. You can trade currencies on the well developed and regulated CME as the futures contracts.
Retail FX is just a casino in any form. Just the word "RETAIL" already implies you are on a bazaar.

[NikSam]

Anyway, why are we discussing forex and PAMMs in an unrelated scammed HYIP thread ?

This HYIP had no connection to any of those. (just a lie and a legend)

[ribshaw]

Average of 1,2% a day its really possible in trading. The problem is not about unrealistic returns but trust someone you never know who is to manage your money and do all the hard work for you and give you profits...

Here is the problem in a nutshell, there has never been a single instance in HISTORY where 1.2% per day average for any extended period of time has turned out not to be a scam. To vet that claim yourself post independently audited results that prove otherwise. You are either setting yourself up to be scammed, or providing a false belief to others that something like this is even remotely possible.

Assuming $1,000,000 in trading capital and trading just 200 days @ 1.2% would imply without compounding $12000 in profits each day or $2,400,000 for the year. The number of funds that hit triple digits in any one year is negligible. While not always the case this type of return often comes after years of poor performance, or a fund that just happened to be in the right trade/sector at the right time. 10 years in a row, go find them.

=============================================

To bury down a little further, let's assume there is a cabal of traders that do make this kind of money. They certainly are not making it public, as such they damn sure don't need a bunch of $50 throw in investors funding accounts via quicktender. In fact I would be hard pressed to think of a reason they would need or want funding at all.

=============================================

Most of the real money in managed accounts is made from the fees charged by the people managing the money, not their skills as traders. Investors get what is left, if anything. In any given year there are likely to be as many funds that close as open. Almost never do they close because they made so much bank for their clients that they just wanted to return the cash and wish everyone a happy life on the beach.

You could very easily prove this out with information that is readily available.


=============================================

Let's make one final leap and assume a trader actually made 1.2% per day consistently for 10 years. (Something I can't do with a straight face) Do we know how they did it or if it will continue for the next 10? The answer is again and emphatic no.

We can be pretty certain that to achieve rates of return that far above the norm they are using massive leverage, one glitch could wipe out years of gains.

This is one of the best cautionary tales of chasing performance and chasing it again...

Victor Niederhoffer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Niederhoffer)


=============================================

Who looks at a fund that does shitty and thinks better get in on that one? Certainly these funds had some track records before this happened...


Since late 2006 at least 117 major funds at 71 outfits have "imploded*

The Hedge Fund Implode-O-Meter - tracking the hedge fund implosion - leverage, speculation, SIVs, CDOs, arbitrage, interest rates, credit bubble (http://hf-implode.com/index.html#lists)


=============================================

Business as usual stuff in the investment arena...


In the first half of the year, 461 funds closed, Chicago-based Hedge Fund Research Inc. said. If that pace continues, it will be the worst year for closures since 2009, when there were 1,023 liquidations.

Hedge funds, on average, have returned just 2 percent in 2014, their worst performance since 2011, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

Hedge Funds Shut as Managers Struggle in Year of Two Percent Returns - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-01/hedge-funds-see-worst-year-for-closures-since-2009.html)

=============================================

End of the day anyone can believe what they want. They have found a trader with a secret way to earn 1.2%. So generous that they will take on small accounts. Always available to answer emails. Few test withdrawals go ok. Never in history has this or will this turn out to be anything other than a scam.

[ribshaw]

so if the company he is working for is licensed there's no problem at all!


A second consideration in the US, I believe this is still accurate.


Since US law does not give segregated status to forex accounts, holders of these accounts don't have secured creditor status in bankruptcy proceedings.

Read more: CFTC - "Customer Funds in Segregation" (http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/66998-cftc-customer-funds-segregation.html#ixzz3MVsfFHHt)

Segregation and Bankruptcy - CFTC (http://www.cftc.gov/LawRegulation/DoddFrankAct/Rulemakings/DF_6_SegBankruptcy/index.htm)

[Realname]

You see? you still continue to believe in the forex myths, probably saw some commercials, read "smart" books , strategies.
When the answer is simple, there are no centralized ECNs , theere are nobody who monitors EU brokers (nobody at all).
Do not confuse interbank exchanges, where regular joes would never have access to with forex kitchen sites.

FX ECNs as you call them, is just poor attempts to combine several kitchens into network. They are not overseen by anyone as well, and they doomed for failure, because kitchens do not really need that network :) They can join some, but just so they can proudly tell their clients "We are part of interbank" BS, and continue business as usual.

There is a simple thing when it comes to trading. If someone collects money for you to trade, there are absolutely nobody who regulates/oversees the trades, and there are thousands ways under those conditions to cheat you – You will be cheated. Counting that one of those by some miracle turns to be the honest one is naive.
They just need to make you feel that loosing the money is all your fault, and the scheme can continue forever.


BTW, Alpari as you mentioned, is not licensed at all , even not in offshore. Just dudes from russia :)


That's truth not only for fx brokers but for most "reputed" banks who also offer that services.
I prefer to pay less fees and have better chances to win so that's why I pick such online fx brokers instead of banks.
And Alpari.co.uk claims to be regulated at FCA, so that is all Bullshit???


.......................

I'm talking about few sucessfully traders so these number is low and represents less than 1% of all traders.
In all markets to allow someone to profit it must exist someone else to lose that ammount. In fx 99% lose money to make those 1% richer.
And if you want names you can remind Hildebrand's case 2 years ago.


Realname, also you forgetting, in US forex is dead. There is just no need for it. FX is huge only in eastern europe and asia, where they just discovered recently this anarchy. Explosion of Russian FX brokers (most online Fx brokers are russian) correlates very close with 2007 ban of casinos in Russia (and the strict 2009 ban which followed). I can even tell you who is behind most of those russian brokers.
(mobsters and ex-casino owners ;) )

US has very well developed stocks and commodities exchanges. You can trade currencies on the well developed and regulated CME as the futures contracts.
Retail FX is just a casino in any form. Just the word "RETAIL" already implies you are on a bazaar.

Trading in such "developed stocks and commodities exchanges" gives you the same or even worse chance to win comparing to EU brokers or even russian brokers....


Anyway, why are we discussing forex and PAMMs in an unrelated scammed HYIP thread ?

This HYIP had no connection to any of those. (just a lie and a legend)

It's because many hyips tell us BS stories regarding forex and PAmm accounts. We know its just a story to place in their sites because its just a ponzi and your money is never used to invest in forex.


Here is the problem in a nutshell, there has never been a single instance in HISTORY where 1.2% per day average for any extended period of time has turned out not to be a scam. To vet that claim yourself post independently audited results that prove otherwise. You are either setting yourself up to be scammed, or providing a false belief to others that something like this is even remotely possible.

Assuming $1,000,000 in trading capital and trading just 200 days @ 1.2% would imply without compounding $12000 in profits each day or $2,400,000 for the year. The number of funds that hit triple digits in any one year is negligible. While not always the case this type of return often comes after years of poor performance, or a fund that just happened to be in the right trade/sector at the right time. 10 years in a row, go find them.

=============================================

To bury down a little further, let's assume there is a cabal of traders that do make this kind of money. They certainly are not making it public, as such they damn sure don't need a bunch of $50 throw in investors funding accounts via quicktender. In fact I would be hard pressed to think of a reason they would need or want funding at all.

=============================================

Most of the real money in managed accounts is made from the fees charged by the people managing the money, not their skills as traders. Investors get what is left, if anything. In any given year there are likely to be as many funds that close as open. Almost never do they close because they made so much bank for their clients that they just wanted to return the cash and wish everyone a happy life on the beach.

You could very easily prove this out with information that is readily available.


=============================================

Let's make one final leap and assume a trader actually made 1.2% per day consistently for 10 years. (Something I can't do with a straight face) Do we know how they did it or if it will continue for the next 10? The answer is again and emphatic no.

We can be pretty certain that to achieve rates of return that far above the norm they are using massive leverage, one glitch could wipe out years of gains.

This is one of the best cautionary tales of chasing performance and chasing it again...

Victor Niederhoffer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Niederhoffer)


=============================================

Who looks at a fund that does shitty and thinks better get in on that one? Certainly these funds had some track records before this happened...


Since late 2006 at least 117 major funds at 71 outfits have "imploded*

The Hedge Fund Implode-O-Meter - tracking the hedge fund implosion - leverage, speculation, SIVs, CDOs, arbitrage, interest rates, credit bubble (http://hf-implode.com/index.html#lists)


=============================================

Business as usual stuff in the investment arena...


In the first half of the year, 461 funds closed, Chicago-based Hedge Fund Research Inc. said. If that pace continues, it will be the worst year for closures since 2009, when there were 1,023 liquidations.

Hedge funds, on average, have returned just 2 percent in 2014, their worst performance since 2011, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

Hedge Funds Shut as Managers Struggle in Year of Two Percent Returns - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-01/hedge-funds-see-worst-year-for-closures-since-2009.html)

=============================================

End of the day anyone can believe what they want. They have found a trader with a secret way to earn 1.2%. So generous that they will take on small accounts. Always available to answer emails. Few test withdrawals go ok. Never in history has this or will this turn out to be anything other than a scam.

Of course there is no fixed returns in trading but 1,2% can be an estimated value for your profits that can be reached or not according to your skills and experience on markets.
The real fact is that most traders don't know how to trade so that's why most think that is impossible and its a scam scheme just because they don't know how to trade wisely....

[Blue Wolf]

Average 1.2% a day, Eh ??

That's 438% a year.

Anyone who believes returns like that are possible is determined to lose their money and there's nothing any of us can do to prevent it.



If somebody did invest one million dollars and had a 438% annualized return, this is what it would look like:

8824

That person would have over 20 trillion dollars after 10 years.

And yet, Realname still hasn't given us the names of these wealthy traders making 438% a year who should have more money than Bill Gates and Warren Buffett combined.

I wonder why?

[Realname]

If somebody did invest one million dollars and had a 438% annualized return, this is what it would look like:

8824

That person would have over 20 trillion dollars after 10 years.

And yet, Realname still hasn't given us the names of these wealthy traders making 438% a year who should have more money than Bill Gates and Warren Buffett combined.

I wonder why?

C'mon! 1 million dollars to start??? In what world do you live?? People with big money like that don't invest too much in high risky businesses like forex.

And 1,2% per business day give about 200% or 250% a year because fx trading is closed on weekends and public holidays. And no trader is perfect he can win 2% one day and lose 2% in another day. But a wise trader have more winning days than losing days.

And trading have liquidity limits! All markets have. You can't trade more than what exist in stock!!!

[Blue Wolf]

In what world do you live??

You're the one who thinks that people can make 1.2% a day trading in the forex market.

In what world do you live??


People with big money like that don't invest too much in high risky businesses like forex.


Why is that?

Is forex trading only for poor people who are foolish enough to think that they can make 1.2% a day?

Do tell.

[littleroundman]

Menwhile,

back in the real world..............

[ribshaw]

Of course there is no fixed returns in trading but 1,2% can be an estimated value for your profits that can be reached or not according to your skills and experience on markets.
The real fact is that most traders don't know how to trade so that's why most think that is impossible and its a scam scheme just because they don't know how to trade wisely....

You have 100 years + of well documented market history to pull from and this is what we get? What I would REALLY like to know is what your method is to identify these super traders ahead of time!!!:RpS_confused::RpS_confused:



Of the people who occasionally show up here to "discuss" scams I would put you in one of two buckets:

Fools- These are people who think they have found something novel that is going to make them wildly wealthy. Sometimes after a crash and burn these people will come back with the next deal that none of us stupidheads understands.

“Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment.”

― Rita Mae Brown

Pimps These are people who not too cleverly try to promote sketchy deals with some combination of several techniques:

1. Claiming people dismiss something because they failed in the past. Very common with those who promote MLM.

2. Claim people just don't understand, they are negative, can't think outside the box, will always work for someone else, etc...

3. Claim that a negative must be proved before something can be declared a scam. Usually in a situation where great earning potential is proffered.

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

― Upton Sinclair

Again, please do what you wish with your money. In fact if you are eyeballing a deal would love to see you start a thread. Most of us would rather see you work through the reality here but sometimes losing is the only way some people will ever get it.

================================================== ============



C'mon! 1 million dollars to start??? In what world do you live?? People with big money like that don't invest too much in high risky businesses like forex.

A million is chump change on the world financial stage. The dollar volume on Forex, Bond, and Stock markets runs into the trillions. The people who can trade at the returns you seem to think are possible would have no interest or need for small accounts. This is part of the 1.2% per day fantasy world you seem to still be living where Johnny Lunchbucket is finally going to get a fair shake.

As for what people with "big money" do have you heard of Bernie Madoff, Allen Stanford, or Scott Rothstein? Want to make a small fortune, start with a large one and give it to someone who claims to have a method for generating consistent returns with no risk, or MASSIVE returns based on some clever method.



And trading have liquidity limits! All markets have. You can't trade more than what exist in stock!!

There lies the problem with your 1.2% acid trip investment plan.

If a "security" is underpriced then there is only going to be so much of it available at that price when it is time to buy and the reverse happens when the security becomes overpriced and it is time to sell. The same thing happens with a "method" of successful trading, which is why the very few truly successful funds sometimes close to new money or return cash periodically to investors. There is only so much "alpha" to go around before the market picks up on it and takes the edge off.

Someone that ran $10,000 into a $1,000,000 based on STRATEGY X may never be able to run the million into $100,000,000 and from there into a BILLION almost unheard of. Its the Forbes 400 so those stories are not hard to locate. More often than not, the $10k into a $Mil is some bullshit to get you to buy something,

[Realname]

You're the one who thinks that people can make 1.2% a day trading in the forex market.

In what world do you live??



Why is that?

Is forex trading only for poor people who are foolish enough to think that they can make 1.2% a day?

Do tell.

What I think according to my experience in fx markets is that 1,2% a day in most of your trading days in a year its really possible. Of course you will have days with -1 or -2% and days with +1 or +2% In trading there is nothing like fixed profit but you can make a mean estimation for your profits.

Most traders don't trade every business days because you wont find good market signals everyday . In fact you trade less than 100 days per year and you lose money in some days so your yearly profit is less than 100% but can be more than 30-50% if you do it well.

Traders rarelly start with 1 million capital. If you have that money and at least a small piece of brain you don't need to work for the rest of your life so why will you waste time in trading??? People trade to earn extra money because are not satisfied with ammount they have.

[shipdit]

... my experience in fx markets ...
May I ask:

۞ How old are you?
۞ What country you are from?
۞ How many years have you been investing?

I'm 57 from the USA and have been investing for 32 years.

Thanks,

SD

.

[NikSam]

When I was a kid i could go to a buddy and ask him for 20 kopeyek for an ice scream cone, promising to give him 40 kopeyek the next day.
I would obey my obligation . So he made 100% ROI over one day. :)

Now, if he had millions of offers like that going forever or if i started borrowing thousands of dollars on terms like that, he would become the richest kid in the world.

[NikSam]

Blue Wolf, sorry, have to argue with your calculations


Now, since compounding in PAMM happens every trading day.
not many compounding calcs can do the thing right, I use my own functions I wrote in matlab.

There are 255-262 work days per year (in US calendar) - I would even choose 250 as the min amount of workdays per year just to show minimum possible earnings,
1.2% per day
$1 invested in a PAMM, (statistically the avg. investment in a single PAMM is $1k, but lets take minimums)
Let see what happens to our buck in 1 year and in 10 years.

the function: compound(deposit, percent, periods, details=False)

1 year: compound(1, 1.2, 250, 1) = $18.49
10 years: compound(1, 1.2, 250*10, 1) = $8,383,747,168,057.28 – thats 8+ trillions :)

[Realname]

May I ask:

۞ How old are you?
۞ What country you are from?
۞ How many years have you been investing?

I'm 57 from the USA and have been investing for 32 years.

Thanks,

SD

.

I'm 27. I'm from Spain and living now in Portugal. I'm trading for about 5 years with EU brokers and I didn't had any problem till now. Trading is not a get rich scheme but you can make some money if you follow theright strategy and a responsible money management plan.




Blue Wolf, sorry, have to argue with your calculations


Now, since compounding in PAMM happens every trading day.
not many compounding calcs can do the thing right, I use my own functions I wrote in matlab.

There are 255-262 work days per year (in US calendar) - I would even choose 250 as the min amount of workdays per year just to show minimum possible earnings,
1.2% per day
$1 invested in a PAMM, (statistically the avg. investment in a single PAMM is $1k, but lets take minimums)
Let see what happens to our buck in 1 year and in 10 years.

the function: compound(deposit, percent, periods, details=False)

1 year: compound(1, 1.2, 250, 1) = $18.49
10 years: compound(1, 1.2, 250*10, 1) = $8,383,747,168,057.28 – thats 8+ trillions :)

Well You shouldn't be a fool and think that you can compound without limits. 1,2% is just an average and there's limits on position volume. It happens in all markets. Even in spread betting companies your stakes depends on the market liquidity so there's always limits in any type of market. So only a fool thinks that its possible to compound forever without any limits.

[NikSam]

...
Well You shouldn't be a fool and think that you can compound without limits. 1,2% is just an average and there's limits on position volume. It happens in all markets. Even in spread betting companies your stakes depends on the market liquidity so there's always limits in any type of market. So only a fool thinks that its possible to compound forever without any limits.

The whole argument started that you claimed 1.2% per day is possible.
(as this HYIP claimed to pay that per day every day).

So now you saying, it is possible under some limits,under some conditions which will not be always true, etc ? :)

So , if some PAMM manager does 1.2% per day, he is managing a million $ account of public funds, at which point his profit will go down to 0.00000000000012% per day ? At which point his trades will start affecting the market and during the fills causing him huge losses ?
So you acknowledge it is only possible sometimes ?

In my ice cream example i showed you that 100% is possible per day too :)

BTW, in most big so called FX brokers, only about couple hundred millions in traders accounts. That is smaller than a daily turnout in exchanges of an average U.S bank. Now FX Brokers never send trades outside the kitchen. If someone can make huge profits and withdraw them it will make the kitchen bankrupt.
That is why nobody ever ever was able to withdraw a single million $$ from them :)

[Realname]

The whole argument started that you claimed 1.2% per day is possible.
So now you saying, it is possible under some limits,under some conditions which will not be always true, etc ? :)

So , if some PAMM manager does 1.2% per day, he is managing a million $ account of public funds, at which point his profit will go down to 0.00000000000012% per day ? At which points his trades will start affecting market and during feels causing him huge losses ?
So you acknowledge it is only possible sometimes ?

In my ice cream example i showed you that 100% is possible per day too :)

There's no profitable pamm trading account. Pamm traders do it to hedge their accounts and make money from fees and comissions!!

I think most of you didn't understand what I said about 1,2% a day is possible! Its not a fixed possibility and obviously that possibility is subjected to market limits. Its possible to win 1,2% during many days of the year if you're good. "No limits" on earnings is something that only exist in "Ponzi world"...

[ribshaw]

I think most of you didn't understand what I said about 1,2% a day is possible!

YOU SAID:


Average of 1,2% a day its really possible in trading. http://www.realscam.com/f8/http-secureinvestment-com-managed-forex-account-3036/#post79408

There is nothing to understand unless "average" suddenly has a new meaning.

Like whatever this is:



Its not a fixed possibility and obviously that possibility is subjected to market limits. Its possible to win 1,2% during many days of the year if you're good.


Anyone can win at any time be it in the markets, Las Vegas, or the lottery I think most people get that part of the equation.

[NikSam]

Another "Keystone xxx" company was added to the black list of UK FCA:

Keystone Corporate Group - Financial Conduct Authority (http://www.fca.org.uk/news/warnings/keystone-corporate-group)

Why ponzis like the "Keystone" name so much ? :)

[Realname]

YOU SAID:

http://www.realscam.com/f8/http-secureinvestment-com-managed-forex-account-3036/#post79408

There is nothing to understand unless "average" suddenly has a new meaning.

Like whatever this is:




Anyone can win at any time be it in the markets, Las Vegas, or the lottery I think most people get that part of the equation.

Average has exactly the same meaning. It means that trader can win 1,2% in average of winning days. Its obvious that no trader win everyday they trade in markets. Even the most experienced trader can lose 2 or 3 days a week! Trading is high risky activity and there's nothing like fixed profits so its all about a floating average of profits.

Its not about in at any time but to win most of times but not all times. 100% winning ratio does not exist!

[Soapboxmom]

Average has exactly the same meaning. It means that trader can win 1,2% in average of winning days. Its obvious that no trader win everyday they trade in markets. Even the most experienced trader can lose 2 or 3 days a week! Trading is high risky activity and there's nothing like fixed profits so its all about a floating average of profits.

Its not about in at any time but to win most of times but not all times. 100% winning ratio does not exist!
I think you hit your noggin on the fireplace a few too many times. Forex is extremely risky. The losses for most are absolutely horrific.

The Lure of Forex: Conflict, Debt and Loss in a $400 Billion Market - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-12/leverage-as-high-as-50-1-lures-otc-forex-traders-who-mostly-lose.html)

But, don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasy!

[Blue Wolf]

Average has exactly the same meaning. It means that trader can win 1,2% in average of winning days.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I burst out laughing when I read that.

[fromthehood]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I burst out laughing when I read that.

I did not get it at first, but yes it is funny. He is probably not a native speaker.

I read on one experienced player and he said if they play with his own money he would always play it safe. The maximum he would make 10-20% a year but that strategy would limit risk to near zero.

For people believing that Forex is money making machine, you are wrong. Small players are always at disadvantage.

[Whip]

I did not get it at first, but yes it is funny. He is probably not a native speaker.

it's not a language issue..........it's the immense backpedal from their previous statement.

[NikSam]

I think you hit your noggin on the fireplace a few too many times. Forex is extremely risky. The losses for most are absolutely horrific.

The Lure of Forex: Conflict, Debt and Loss in a $400 Billion Market - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-12/leverage-as-high-as-50-1-lures-otc-forex-traders-who-mostly-lose.html)

But, don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasy!

SBM, that article is strictly on US regulated OTC Forex brokers.
You can only imagine what is happening behind the scenes with offshore/ russian/ european / unavailable location anarchy brokers which dominate this "forex market".
(trade manipulations are their business plan, making the odds of winning not only more risky but almost impossible , they are not at all monitored but some regulators blindly print them a license)

Other thing I do not like a term "Forex Investor" as article uses it several times, there are no investments happen, the physical delivery of currency does not happen if a trader bets on a currency pair, unlike of Currency futures contracts at CME.
"Forex Investor" term should apply only to managed accounts/PAMM when a client of a broker gives his funds to another trader to trade based on his past performance stats – which is not allowed in US but widely used in EU/Russia/Offshores.
When you bet on a racing horse you not buying the horse, so calling such traders "investors" is dumb , same as calling racing gamblers - horse owners.

[NikSam]

...
And Alpari.co.uk claims to be regulated at FCA, so that is all Bullshit???

...

Their main russian site never mentioned that they have FCA license, so i guess i was wrong.
They registered more companies worldwide: OOO Alpari (Russia), Alpari (UK) Ltd, Alpari Limited (Saint Vincent), Alpari Limited (Belize), Alpari International Limited (Mauritius) and got FCA lic on UK one), but it does not matter now:
http://www.realscam.com/f37/alpari-uk-russian-forex-kitchen-files-bankruptcy-3740/#post80606

Good Luck to friends you lured into this mess.

[Realname]

and got FCA lic on UK one), but it does not matter now:
http://www.realscam.com/f37/alpari-uk-russian-forex-kitchen-files-bankruptcy-3740/#post80606

Good Luck to friends you lured into this mess.

Why you say it does not matter??? You'll see that all clients will get refunded what would never happen if it was unlicensed....

[ribshaw]

Why you say it does not matter??? You'll see that all clients will get refunded what would never happen if it was unlicensed....

Man are you going to be in for a shock. If it was only the traders on the losing side of things that lost money the firms would not have been pushed into bankruptcy. The capital accounts have been wiped out or seriously impaired, what are they going to be refunding with?