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Fgold
06-13-2013, 02:13 PM
This Danish company is being heavily promoted in some hyip forums like MTV and others and I'm receiving many phone calls from Greenwood Management regarding investmens opportunities in Brazilian forestry. I know its a red flag when you see it promoted in hyip forums and when they use to call many times to invite you to invest with them. It seems that are targing EU investors to invest in Noth and South american forestry projects but the detail given are not so clear about who manage the funds and about their local representatives & partneships.

What their investment projects offer is about a ROI of 8%- 14% per year with a minimum of 10,000 EUR for about a period of 6-8 years investment:

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ribshaw
06-13-2013, 05:38 PM
My eyes are a little weary, so if I missed a connection please forgive me. I do find it odd in looking at the contacts list from the web page that none seems to match up with the registration of the site. Just seems to me that it would make sense to have a home base.

But on the investment front heck no. Anything marketed by salespeople in a boiler room never ends well for the investor. If one were to diversify in to timber they could buy land themselves, buy any number of publicly traded companies or funds, or even pay for a distant futures contract or option (not taking about margin, just cash).

Even if this is "real" the non publicly traded stuff is usually filled with fees and is hard to value and get out of if you want to sell. This is all general stuff, not necessarily specific to Greenwood.
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Scamadviser.com | check a website for risk | check if dodgey | check is a website s |check website is fake or a scam (http://www.scamadviser.com/check-website/greenwood-management.com)

path2prosperity
06-13-2013, 07:38 PM
This Danish company is being heavily promoted in some hyip forums like MTV and others.

Not a very good omen but some Spanish speaking members of RS like LORM or "oldcoot" might help you do some more digging about forestry projects in Brazil FGold. My step son has a forestry degree so I may be able to provide some scientific imput of that subject.

Most Danish people speak English so information about their activities should be much easier to locate.

fromthehood
06-13-2013, 07:50 PM
As usual question is: if they offer ROI than they must be registered to sell securities. And this registration is different from just registering company which everybody can do. Are they listed on any stock exchange? Who is in charge? Yes, there are representatives listed but that are sales agents. And if they are a private company, I do not think they are allowed to offer certain ROI anywhere in the developed world.

Didn't we discussed another "company" that does the same thing like opening a bread making factories in Ukraine with ROI much higher though. This one looks more like traditional boiler room.

They are also inflating their rankings recently. Look for "BackLink Discovery" on the bottom of the page below.
Greenwood-management.com at DigSitesValue. Forestry Investment | Greenwood Management | Alternative Investment. (http://digsitesvalue.com/s/greenwood-management.com)

fromthehood
06-13-2013, 08:00 PM
This discussion on the link below confirms that this is known boiler room scam.

http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/34971577980
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=78968

Also, name of the owner popped up.
Mr. Benjamin Taylor

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 06:41 AM
This discussion on the link below confirms that this is known boiler room scam.

http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/34971577980
Greenwood Investments - Askaboutmoney.com (http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=78968)

Also, name of the owner popped up.
Mr. Benjamin Taylor

Hi guys, I work at Greenwood any questions you would like to ask I will be happy to answer.

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 06:47 AM
Hi guys, I work for Greenwood if there is anything you want to ask me I will be happy to answer. In regards to these various HYIP websites these constantly come up however we have no affiliation with these sites ourselves.

Lil Ol' Radical Me
06-15-2013, 07:22 AM
Talk to us about the forestry companies who Greenwood are involved with, and who provide these returns.

ribshaw
06-15-2013, 10:30 AM
Hi guys, I work for Greenwood if there is anything you want to ask me I will be happy to answer. In regards to these various HYIP websites these constantly come up however we have no affiliation with these sites ourselves.

Finra broker check is currently down, but perhaps you could provide us with licensing information in the US as well as links to you investments being registered with the SEC. Those are two pretty basic requirements if you are soliciting funds from people in the states.

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 10:36 AM
Greenwood Management have their own forestry company Greenwood Agropecuaria in Brazil we employ about 100 personnel in the region of Bahia and have approximately 5,000 hectares under management some of our operations you can view at the Flickr link I have included here Flickr: Greenwood Management (http://www.flickr.com/people/greenwood-management/)
Regarding our personnel we have third party consultants working with us that have links with most of the largest wood consumers in the region and we also have a mutual partnership with the forestry department of a prominent university who conduct out forestry audits.

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 10:39 AM
We do not do business in the US and of course in the US it is not just about one country regulation as each state has individual requirements this is the reason we do not conduct business in the country.

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 10:43 AM
The company has its own forestry business "Greenwood Agropecuria ltda" we employ approximately 100 people in the state of Bahia. Some of our operations can be viewed at the Flickr link I have included below. Flickr: Greenwood Management (http://www.flickr.com/people/greenwood-management/)

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 10:49 AM
In addition to my previous post most of the company information can be located here Greenwood Corporate Information - Updated for 2011 (http://gwm-tv.com/gwm-brochures/corporate/gwm-corporate-information.htm)

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 11:53 AM
My step son has a forestry degree so I may be able to provide some scientific imput of that. My step son has a forestry degree so I may be able to provide some scientific imput of that subject.

Regarding this post it may be helpful to assist by including some scientific data in specific relation to the companies projects in Brazil. We have qualified third parties who conduct growth projections for our projects such as the one shown in the link I have included http://www.gwm-tv.com/downloads/Barreiras_v4.pdf . These are site specific studies whilst follow up reports are issued to our clients by a noticeable european university who we work alongside. Currently our growth projections have been confirmed as overachieving our projections and I will try to post more supporting evidence when I am in the office. If your step son is interested then I am happy to talk with him or provide other information which should help this discussion.

ribshaw
06-15-2013, 11:54 AM
We do not do business in the US and of course in the US it is not just about one country regulation as each state has individual requirements this is the reason we do not conduct business in the country.

I suggest blocking access to your site, and/or a big splash screen warning US investors that you are not licensed to do business in the US. I poked around on your site the other day and nothing jumped out. Although I may have missed it. If it is in the High Yield forums my guess is US people have money invested, and/or are promoting investments to others (IN FAIRNESS I HAVE NOT LOOKED) If you have anything to add on that front it would be helpful. For instance Uinvest is not licensed to do business in the US, but still does.

I find this a highly unusual way to market investments to the general public. Perhaps again because I am in the US, but here almost everything is solicited through brokerage houses. This gives the investor an added layer of comfort that at least the broker has done some due diligence and there are some protections from outright fraud by the broker. That is not to say that just because products are sold by a broker they are a great deal for the investor. Many of the non publicly traded funds, usually marketed as Limited Partnerships are a terrible deal for the investor. Most are saddled with high fees, commissions, are hard to value and very illiquid.

Finally, anything marketed exclusively through a boiler room or telephone sales force needs to be looked at very cautiously. If for no other reason than that means that no broker wants put their name on the product. I certainly welcome the discussion and will look forward to any responses or comments you may have.

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 12:19 PM
This discussion on the link below confirms that this is known boiler room scam.

http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/34971577980
Greenwood Investments - Askaboutmoney.com (http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=78968)

Also, name of the owner popped up.
Mr. Benjamin Taylor

Unfortunately you are correct this post does state all sort of "facts". Whilst I don't want to dwell on the subject I think that it is fair to state that in today's society "freedom of speech" and annominity does provide disgruntled ex-employees and less than professional competitors an opportunity to label companies and individuals on SOME discussion boards with little or no proof for their own aims. Unfortunately not only does this damage the reliability of these types of sites but it also pushes a decision to be made in regards to what is defamation and what is freedom of speech which is ultimately not in the interest of genuine posters on these online communities or the companies that are on the receiving end of an attack. I would also say that the owner of this particular site "julia forte" also has a number of claims regarding her websites whocallsme.com and 800notes such as the link below whilst there is no evidence that her websites are conducting any sort if "scam" it does go to show that no one is immune to being labelled by anonymous individuals.

is800notesascam: Julia Forte - www.800notes.com - Extortion of Money (http://is800notesascam.blogspot.com.es/2010/12/julia-forte-www800notescom-extortion-of.html?m=1)

path2prosperity
06-15-2013, 12:47 PM
The company has its own forestry business "Greenwood Agropecuria ltda" we employ approximately 100 people in the state of Bahia. Some of our operations can be viewed at the Flickr link I have included below. Flickr: Greenwood Management (http://www.flickr.com/people/greenwood-management/)

I was unable to see your VAT registration number on the flickr link. Please explain why you should wish to supply details to an online community without informing them of your VAT registration number.

fromthehood
06-15-2013, 12:48 PM
In addition to my previous post most of the company information can be located here Greenwood Corporate Information - Updated for 2011 (http://gwm-tv.com/gwm-brochures/corporate/gwm-corporate-information.htm)

I find it very troubling that corporation does not list CEO, CFO or any other top management people. Advisory board can only advice. I do not see anybody responsible for the company management.

ribshaw
06-15-2013, 12:49 PM
Unfortunately you are correct this post does state all sort of "facts". Whilst I don't want to dwell on the subject I think that it is fair to state that in today's society "freedom of speech" and annominity does provide disgruntled ex-employees and less than professional competitors an opportunity to label companies and individuals on SOME discussion boards with little or no proof for their own aims.

Greenwood, I don't speak for anyone other than myself, but I have listed what I feel are some very reasonable due diligence concerns I believe any investor should consider before parting with their hard earned money. It would be nice if you could address those, frankly when I see comments about disgruntled employees and less than professional competitors it seems more of a red herring than a valid comment. It may happen, but the alternative is for us not to have any public forum where people can come and gather information, in that case the people who are offering questionable deals have free reign.

path2prosperity
06-15-2013, 12:50 PM
In addition to my previous post most of the company information can be located here Greenwood Corporate Information - Updated for 2011 (http://gwm-tv.com/gwm-brochures/corporate/gwm-corporate-information.htm)

Still no mention of a VAT registration number.

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 12:51 PM
They are also inflating their rankings recently. Look for "BackLink Discovery" on the bottom of the page below.
Greenwood-management.com at DigSitesValue. Forestry Investment | Greenwood Management | Alternative Investment. (http://digsitesvalue.com/s/greenwood-management.com)

In regards to this point I believe the "back links" will be our landing pages which are connected to our website and CRM system. These links are enquiry forms for site visitors to fill out from our advertising you can search back links from say other sites by searching Alexa (traffic stats) and putting in the main company website this is more revealing I have included a link to the information that you can search here Greenwood-management.com Site Info (http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/greenwood-management.com)
We do not use any type of "link exchange"

fromthehood
06-15-2013, 12:58 PM
Regarding this post it may be helpful to assist by including some scientific data in specific relation to the companies projects in Brazil. We have qualified third parties who conduct growth projections for our projects such as the one shown in the link I have included http://www.gwm-tv.com/downloads/Barreiras_v4.pdf . These are site specific studies whilst follow up reports are issued to our clients by a noticeable european university who we work alongside. Currently our growth projections have been confirmed as overachieving our projections and I will try to post more supporting evidence when I am in the office. If your step son is interested then I am happy to talk with him or provide other information which should help this discussion.

Which university? Department name? Their contacts?

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 01:01 PM
In regards to this our agents are licensed accordingly in the various jurisdictions they operate in. Regarding these HYIP boards the company has no association with these types of avenues. I do know that it is of course a constant up hill battle for our legal department who regularly have to notify organizations not to advertise products that we are not supplying the company has also had to get copies of our websites taken down???

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 01:04 PM
Which university? Department name? Their contacts?
All the information can be found on our projects website here Greenwood Management - Forestry Investment | Invest in Timber | Invest in Trees (http://www.gwm-tv.com/)

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 01:20 PM
I was unable to see your VAT registration number on the flickr link. Please explain why you should wish to supply details to an online community without informing them of your VAT registration number.
The company is a Danish ApS and the VAT number is the CVR number (31 62 93 73) which is included on the corporate information and the company websites. Our Brazilian CNPJ number can also be found on the previous information I supplied at the link here Greenwood Corporate Information - Updated for 2011 (http://gwm-tv.com/gwm-brochures/corporate/gwm-corporate-information.htm)

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 01:52 PM
Greenwood, I don't speak for anyone other than myself, but I have listed what I feel are some very reasonable due diligence concerns I believe any investor should consider before parting with their hard earned money. It would be nice if you could address those, frankly when I see comments about disgruntled employees and less than professional competitors it seems more of a red herring than a valid comment. It may happen, but the alternative is for us not to have any public forum where people can come and gather information, in that case the people who are offering questionable deals have free reign.

My apologies I don't think I was understood completely with this comment. I am more than happy to supply this discussion with facts, personally I think that having a grown up discussion based on information is a good idea and these forums provide a good footing and a valid way to find out information. Of course sometimes these types of sites are open to abuse which was my point. But if you want to ask me anything hopefully I can be of help.

ribshaw
06-15-2013, 02:31 PM
My apologies I don't think I was understood completely with this comment. I am more than happy to supply this discussion with facts, personally I think that having a grown up discussion based on information is a good idea and these forums provide a good footing and a valid way to find out information. Of course sometimes these types of sites are open to abuse which was my point. But if you want to ask me anything hopefully I can be of help.

Forgive my cut and paste but am working on another pet project of mine today. These are concerns I would have with ANY INVESTMENT.


I suggest blocking access to your site, and/or a big splash screen warning US investors that you are not licensed to do business in the US. I poked around on your site the other day and nothing jumped out. Although I may have missed it. If it is in the High Yield forums my guess is US people have money invested, and/or are promoting investments to others (IN FAIRNESS I HAVE NOT LOOKED) If you have anything to add on that front it would be helpful. For instance Uinvest is not licensed to do business in the US, but still does.

I find this a highly unusual way to market investments to the general public. Perhaps again because I am in the US, but here almost everything is solicited through brokerage houses. This gives the investor an added layer of comfort that at least the broker has done some due diligence and there are some protections from outright fraud by the broker. That is not to say that just because products are sold by a broker they are a great deal for the investor. Many of the non publicly traded funds, usually marketed as Limited Partnerships are a terrible deal for the investor. Most are saddled with high fees, commissions, are hard to value and very illiquid.

Finally, anything marketed exclusively through a boiler room or telephone sales force needs to be looked at very cautiously. If for no other reason than that means that no broker wants put their name on the product. I certainly welcome the discussion and will look forward to any responses or comments you may have.

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 02:47 PM
Forgive my cut and paste but am working on another pet project of mine today. These are concerns I would have with ANY INVESTMENT.
Of course in reply all authorized agents, lawyers, and brokers that offer the company's products are of course licensed in their individual jurisdictions accordingly. Regarding the point you raided about denying access in North America from memory I believe this was the case but this also blocked the site in Canada, we had some issues due to the fact that we have some operations in Canada and our staff had difficulty accessing the CRM system although I believe this is being rectified. In regards to these HYIP sites thanks for bringing this to my attention I think that definitely needs to be looked at.

ribshaw
06-15-2013, 03:23 PM
Of course in reply all authorized agents, lawyers, and brokers that offer the company's products are of course licensed in their individual jurisdictions accordingly. Regarding the point you raided about denying access in North America from memory I believe this was the case but this also blocked the site in Canada, we had some issues due to the fact that we have some operations in Canada and our staff had difficulty accessing the CRM system although I believe this is being rectified. In regards to these HYIP sites thanks for bringing this to my attention I think that definitely needs to be looked at.

Again, I am not 100% what is going on in the high yield sites, but experience is not many over are chatting for the heck of it. As for the access I had no problem getting in and poking around your site, including answering the investor Q&A. And would still be happy to see answers to any of my other questions/concerns.

Fgold
06-15-2013, 03:25 PM
These are site specific studies whilst follow up reports are issued to our clients by a noticeable european university who we work alongside.

Utad didn't make any public announcement showing any results of such cooperation agreement with GWM. Maybe the results were not so good to be showed or... ??

Its funny that GWM claim to be eco-friendly and all their projects respect the Sustainability of forest areas but don't have any certification/accreditation from any reputed entity like FSC?? Without it you cannot guarante your customers that your products are really certified...

And GWM is also not authorized to offer investment opportunities in many countries (not only US) so your site should warn visitors about that.

fromthehood
06-15-2013, 03:25 PM
All the information can be found on our projects website here Greenwood Management - Forestry Investment | Invest in Timber | Invest in Trees (http://www.gwm-tv.com/)

So you are giving as little info as possible. So which department and contact numbers ?

I found a project that sounds similar to yours. Only it is well predated your company
Alternative Agricultural Land-Use With Fast-Growing Trees
CITAB • Project details (http://www.citab.utad.pt/project_details.php?ID=78)

Is it the one? They list all their research. So please post link.

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 03:45 PM
would still be happy to see answers to any of my other questions/concerns.

I don't think there is anything I haven't answered (could of missed something)
If you have any other questions could you list them and I will answer.

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 03:56 PM
Utad didn't make any public announcement showing any results of such cooperation agreement with GWM. Maybe the results were not so good to be showed or... ??

Its funny that GWM claim to be eco-friendly and all their projects respect the Sustainability of forest areas but don't have any certification/accreditation from any reputed entity like FSC?? Without it you cannot guarante your customers that your products are really certified...

And GWM is also not authorized to offer investment opportunities in many countries (not only US) so your site should warn visitors about that.

Regarding this points we have a scholarship with the university, as such client reports are prepared in part by the university. I do have some reports (in English) which I will try to put on line for you next week.

In relation to the FSC this relates only to wood products exported outside of the country, we deal in the domestic timber markets and the FSC badge really does not show anything within these markets although this is the "stamp of approval" used by US and european timber importers. What does hold weight in Brazil is having the correct licensing which is probably more stringent than FSC requirements.

Regarding regulation we have a network of regulated individuals who market our products within the various jurisdictions which is adequate as forestry itself is unable to be regulated in its direct form. Having said this we will have a securities division Greenwood Asset Managers which is currently being licensed to sell shares in a forestry fund operated by Greenwood Management.

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 04:05 PM
So you are giving as little info as possible. So which department and contact numbers ?

I found a project that sounds similar to yours. Only it is well predated your company
Alternative Agricultural Land-Use With Fast-Growing Trees
CITAB • Project details (http://www.citab.utad.pt/project_details.php?ID=78)

Is it the one? They list all their research. So please post link.

I am not trying to be vague, but equally it's the weekend and I don't have everything to hand. I will of course post further details when I'm back in the office on Monday. Regarding other forestry companies investments such as ours have been offered traditionally outside of the US for some time. I will also try to get you all the supporting documentation next week for your research.

fromthehood
06-15-2013, 04:10 PM
I don't think there is anything I haven't answered (could of missed something)
If you have any other questions could you list them and I will answer.

Ok.

1)You missed who is President/CEO/CFO or name of any top manager in the parent company. Advisors are not managers.

2)Link to research made on your behaves by Portuguese University. They list all of their research projects online. So which one is yours? Who to contact in which department?

3)Phone number of the parent company? Company like yours should have an office with the secretary an so on. Again advisors or sales agent do not cut it.

4)Where can we confirm that your company is authorized to sell direct investments? Anybody can register a corporation, but to register one allowed to sell investment products directly, that requires special permission. So where are the numbers/countries/links to local security exchanges and their permissions for you?

Greenwood Management
06-15-2013, 04:30 PM
1)You missed who is President/CEO/CFO or name of any top manager in the parent company. Advisors are not managers.

I know in the US these job titles are generally more important but the director of the company is Ben Taylor, the operations director is Nuno Paris, we have accountants employed rather than a CFO which is quite standard in Europe. And the rest of the information should be in the documentation I previously supplied.


2)Link to research made on your behaves by Portuguese University. They list all of their research projects online. So which one is yours? Who to contact in which department?

I will have these details for you posted in Monday alongside other research papers.

3)Phone number of the parent company? Company like yours should have an office with the secretary an so on. Again advisors or sales agent do not cut it.
All of this information you can find on the main company website? Forestry Investment | Greenwood Management | Alternative Investment (http://www.greenwood-management.com)

4)Where can we confirm that your company is authorized to sell direct investments? Anybody can register a corporation, but to register one allowed to sell investment products directly, that requires special permission. So where are the numbers/countries/links to local security exchanges and their permissions for you? Again I will supply these details for you on Monday although you should be able to find this information online already? I would say though that other markets are different from the US. Generally speaking investments here in Europe can be sold by regulated entities without the product being regulated I could not comment on the way it works in the US but here forestry is similar to things such as hedge funds. Due to the direct nature of forestry and property this outside if the remit for product regulation. Of course lawyers, brokers and regulated agents can sell various products some of which are referred to as UCIS products.

TazBrussels
06-17-2013, 10:26 AM
I am not trying to be vague, but equally it's the weekend and I don't have everything to hand. I will of course post further details when I'm back in the office on Monday. Regarding other forestry companies investments such as ours have been offered traditionally outside of the US for some time. I will also try to get you all the supporting documentation next week for your research.

Good to read all that. To be very practical, I am invested with Greenwood (since 2009) and you can contact me in private to know my details. As such, I have to tell you that ALL my recent requests for information about the units I 'own' remain unsatisfactorily answered. I can provide you with all details : contents, dates, contact person.

I do not want to make any judgement at this stage, nor to influence negatively other forum participants, but I would appreciate your involvement in my legitimate request and would be pleased to confirm to this audience the good follow-up of my query and receipt of this much-sought information.

Thank you.
Best Regards.

Greenwood Management
06-17-2013, 11:13 AM
TazBrussels,

I just sent you a PM, if you can PM your details I will contact you tomorrow as per your request.

Fgold
06-17-2013, 01:49 PM
Regarding this points we have a scholarship with the university, as such client reports are prepared in part by the university. I do have some reports (in English) which I will try to put on line for you next week.

In relation to the FSC this relates only to wood products exported outside of the country, we deal in the domestic timber markets and the FSC badge really does not show anything within these markets although this is the "stamp of approval" used by US and european timber importers. What does hold weight in Brazil is having the correct licensing which is probably more stringent than FSC requirements.

Regarding regulation we have a network of regulated individuals who market our products within the various jurisdictions which is adequate as forestry itself is unable to be regulated in its direct form. Having said this we will have a securities division Greenwood Asset Managers which is currently being licensed to sell shares in a forestry fund operated by Greenwood Management.

I know that but 2 years passed and such university didn't make any announcement about the results of such studies fully sponsored by GWM in Brazil. The reports should be showed publically otherwise what's the interest in making a private science??

Regarding FSC you're completly wrong about such type of certification. I think you should visit their brazilian website (FSC Forest Stewardship Council Brasil (FSC-BR) · Home (http://br.fsc.org)) and realize that it also applies to brazilian domestic markets as not only US and Eu citiziens care about a responsible and sustainable forest management activities! Certification by an independent entity who makes regular audits has more weight for any world citizien who really cares about environment... And certified timber has more value and higher prices in markets than a non certified timber...

About regulations I haven't seen anything that proves that GWM is authorized to sell such type of investment opportunities. Can you show us any proves that GWm is regulated???

fromthehood
06-17-2013, 03:42 PM
About regulations I haven't seen anything that proves that GWM is authorized to sell such type of investment opportunities. Can you show us any proves that GWm is regulated???


He will try to continue sell us stories that In Europe unlike in US nobody cares who top management of the company is, that sales phone number doubles for official company phone number and that there is no regulations on selling securities.

He is taking us or idiots.

Greenwood Management
06-18-2013, 02:52 AM
He will try to continue sell us stories that In Europe unlike in US nobody cares who top management of the company is, that sales phone number doubles for official company phone number and that there is no regulations on selling securities.

He is taking us or idiots.

To shed some light on your concerns the company's main phone number shown on the main website as "main number" you can find this here Greenwood Management | Contact Greenwood | Greenwood-mangement.com (http://www.greenwood-management.com/contact-greenwood-management.html)

Regarding forestry, property etc this is not viewed as a security unless shares are sold in a fund, I have included a third party link (in English) which should show you an example in relation to these types of products here> : http://www.claracapital.co.uk/blog/e/v/8/_The_case_for_unregulated_funds_

Greenwood Management
06-18-2013, 03:11 AM
I know that but 2 years passed and such university didn't make any announcement about the results of such studies fully sponsored by GWM in Brazil. The reports should be showed publically otherwise what's the interest in making a private science??

In regards to your point stating that UTAD have not made any announcements in relation to GWM there are several announcements you can find on the internet (of course these are in Portuguese) you can find one such announcement at the link below (on page 6) >: http://www.utad.pt/vPT/Area2/OutrasUnidades/GabineteRelacoesInternacionaisMobilidade/BoletinsInformativos/Documents/newsletter_2_grim_nov_2011.pdf .

As this is in Portuguese I have used Google translate it states "On September 8, UTAD took place at the meeting with representatives of Greenwood Management, ApS (GWM) and the Forestry Department UTAD. The meeting addressed by Prof. Antonio silva, served for the presentation of the project by that institution, which consists in the exchange of students of 1st and 2nd cycle in internships in Brazil, aimed at undergraduate students in the Forest. This project will improve the professional skills of the students in Forestry and knowledge transfer to GWM. The Parties shall exchange scientific knowledge and experience, as well as joint development of the pla-school. The selection of the four best students is the responsibility of both institutions and allows the realization of a project / internship with a duration of 6 months (3 months in Brazil doing field work and three months in Portugal process data and elaboration of final report). The student needs to tar presented a final report, according to the needs of GWM and following the general rules of a project by UTAD. In this sense, has signed a cooperation agreement which stipulates the basis of this collaboration.

Dr. Bob
06-18-2013, 03:26 AM
I have some very good contacts in the brokerage business, and I contacted 3 of them this afternoon. While this in itself is not a total condemnation, even by their own words, none of them have ever heard of you. Please understand that their expertise goes beyond company stocks. They also have a fairly good hand on the bond and general lending market too.
I would also like to see your VAT registration, and so would they?

Regards,
Dr. Bob

Greenwood Management
06-18-2013, 03:45 AM
Regarding FSC you're completly wrong about such type of certification. I think you should visit their brazilian website (FSC Forest Stewardship Council Brasil (FSC-BR) · Home (http://br.fsc.org)) and realize that it also applies to brazilian domestic markets as not only US and Eu citiziens care about a responsible and sustainable forest management activities! Certification by an independent entity who makes regular audits has more weight for any world citizien who really cares about environment... And certified timber has more value and higher prices in markets than a non certified timber...

In regards to this point FSC is a "green brand seal" which is specifically required when exporting logs to Europe and North America as this is generally requested by furniture manufactures in Europe and North America for market branding. However FSC certification.

I have included a link here: WWF Brasil - O que é certificação florestal? (http://www.wwf.org.br/natureza_brasileira/questoes_ambientais/certificacao_florestal/) (In Portuguese from Brazil) which states (you can use Google translate) "How can we evaluate the evolution of Brazil regarding the certification process? Brazil is now the country with the largest area of forests and the largest number of FSC certified products. More than 3 million hectares of certified forests from the Amazon to the Rio Grande do Sul and about 170 certifications chain of custody. Most products with FSC today are intended for export to European countries and North America..
Unfortunately FSC "green stamping" just increases the project costs and is not in demand within the domestic market, Brazil has a strict certification process for "reforestation projects" such as ours and licencing alone can take up to 12 months, in addition to this their other stringent requirements that have to be met regarding chemical storage, water licencing, and registering, clothing and housing staff which are put in place to make sure ethical commitments are met from forest producers. These (quite new) licencing processes are seen in Brazil as more than adequate, whilst without these licences end users and forest producers can be fined for involvement. New laws enacted over the past few years have also led to the harvesting and selling of "native" timber as can be read here > Sustainable Development - Responsibilities and Commitments of Everyone (http://www.cop15.gov.br/en-US/index18b6.html?page=noticias/green-steel-for-the-brazilian-steel-industry) .

Greenwood Management
06-18-2013, 03:48 AM
I have some very good contacts in the brokerage business, and I contacted 3 of them this afternoon. While this in itself is not a total condemnation, even by their own words, none of them have ever heard of you. Please understand that their expertise goes beyond company stocks. They also have a fairly good hand on the bond and general lending market too.
I would also like to see your VAT registration, and so would they?

Regards,
Dr. Bob

Hi Dr.Bob in regards to this please see my previous posts, we do not deal in America in regards to the VAT number this is the same as the company registration number (Danish CVR) number previously supplied (31 62 93 73).

Lil Ol' Radical Me
06-18-2013, 06:43 AM
He will try to continue sell us stories that In Europe unlike in US nobody cares who top management of the company is, that sales phone number doubles for official company phone number and that there is no regulations on selling securities.

He is taking us or idiots.

In European countries both in and out of the European Common Market, there are some very stringent regulations for licensing businesses, especially the sale of investments. People in Europe are very much aware of the need for transparency in business and the lack of corporate information, as are their authorities and in many instances have taken action over dubious investment schemes even before the US. We are probably even more concerned than American about WHO owns and runs the businesses we invest in.

The sale of investments to the public in any company, including forestry and property company have to be licensed and registered by all the relevant authorities in the countries in which they offer those investments for sale. By sale to the public, this does not refer to public listed companies, but to investments offered to strangers on the internet, like those offered by Greenwood.

It would be a lot more credible if you could post the verification of all those relevant licences instead of providing links to promotional material.

Fgold
06-18-2013, 07:01 AM
In regards to your point stating that UTAD have not made any announcements in relation to GWM there are several announcements you can find on the internet (of course these are in Portuguese) you can find one such announcement at the link below (on page 6) >: http://www.utad.pt/vPT/Area2/OutrasUnidades/GabineteRelacoesInternacionaisMobilidade/BoletinsInformativos/Documents/newsletter_2_grim_nov_2011.pdf .

As this is in Portuguese I have used Google translate it states "On September 8, UTAD took place at the meeting with representatives of Greenwood Management, ApS (GWM) and the Forestry Department UTAD. The meeting addressed by Prof. Antonio silva, served for the presentation of the project by that institution, which consists in the exchange of students of 1st and 2nd cycle in internships in Brazil, aimed at undergraduate students in the Forest. This project will improve the professional skills of the students in Forestry and knowledge transfer to GWM. The Parties shall exchange scientific knowledge and experience, as well as joint development of the pla-school. The selection of the four best students is the responsibility of both institutions and allows the realization of a project / internship with a duration of 6 months (3 months in Brazil doing field work and three months in Portugal process data and elaboration of final report). The student needs to tar presented a final report, according to the needs of GWM and following the general rules of a project by UTAD. In this sense, has signed a cooperation agreement which stipulates the basis of this collaboration.

I?ve already seen that. That's why I asked if almost 2 years after such announcement there's any relevant scientific reports or such program didn't bring anything good enough to be showed in the next utad's newsletters??

Fgold
06-18-2013, 07:19 AM
In regards to this point FSC is a "green brand seal" which is specifically required when exporting logs to Europe and North America as this is generally requested by furniture manufactures in Europe and North America for market branding. However FSC certification.

I have included a link here: WWF Brasil - O que é certificação florestal? (http://www.wwf.org.br/natureza_brasileira/questoes_ambientais/certificacao_florestal/) (In Portuguese from Brazil) which states (you can use Google translate) "How can we evaluate the evolution of Brazil regarding the certification process? Brazil is now the country with the largest area of forests and the largest number of FSC certified products. More than 3 million hectares of certified forests from the Amazon to the Rio Grande do Sul and about 170 certifications chain of custody. Most products with FSC today are intended for export to European countries and North America..
Unfortunately FSC "green stamping" just increases the project costs and is not in demand within the domestic market, Brazil has a strict certification process for "reforestation projects" such as ours and licencing alone can take up to 12 months, in addition to this their other stringent requirements that have to be met regarding chemical storage, water licencing, and registering, clothing and housing staff which are put in place to make sure ethical commitments are met from forest producers. These (quite new) licencing processes are seen in Brazil as more than adequate, whilst without these licences end users and forest producers can be fined for involvement. New laws enacted over the past few years have also led to the harvesting and selling of "native" timber as can be read here > Sustainable Development - Responsibilities and Commitments of Everyone (http://www.cop15.gov.br/en-US/index18b6.html?page=noticias/green-steel-for-the-brazilian-steel-industry) .

In my view FSC is always a must for any responsible and sustainable forestry company and all people who really cares about making a green world. Most of green people including green consumers worldwide prefer FSC certified and pls don't tell that only US and EU cares about green certifications...

Its pathetic that the link you showed about your most adequated licencing processes support eucalyptus plantations in Brazil to ensure the preservation of the native vegetation. That's BIG LOL ! Eucalyptus is native in Australia but NOT in Brazil as its a very serious threat for brazilian native species and its just used for economic interests of a restricted group of people supported by brazilian feds...

Lil Ol' Radical Me
06-18-2013, 07:52 AM
Hi Dr.Bob in regards to this please see my previous posts, we do not deal in America in regards to the VAT number this is the same as the company registration number (Danish CVR) number previously supplied (31 62 93 73).


VAT is the Value Added Tax or Sales Tax which companies have to be registered for in order to offer goods and services for sale. Registering a company is not the same as being licensed to sell securities in denmark or anywhere else. If Greenwood is going to sell investments it will have to be registered in every country it sells in - whether through the internet or not. Links to the specific licenses PLEASE

Greenwood Management
06-18-2013, 08:35 AM
In my view FSC is always a must for any responsible and sustainable forestry company and all people who really cares about making a green world. Most of green people including green consumers worldwide prefer FSC certified and pls don't tell that only US and EU cares about green certifications...

Its pathetic that the link you showed about your most adequated licencing processes support eucalyptus plantations in Brazil to ensure the preservation of the native vegetation. That's BIG LOL ! Eucalyptus is native in Australia but NOT in Brazil as its a very serious threat for brazilian native species and its just used for economic interests of a restricted group of people supported by brazilian feds...

This is your view and I do not want to convince you otherwise however the FSC is one (and probably the best known) of many "green certificates" but it does not mean that all timber produced under the guidelines of the FSC is done so in the right way. Their have been numerous claims surrounding certifications on unethical companies it does mean though that these companies can sell their timber without any problem in the US or Europe but really this certification is not a completely accurate measure of a company, its ethical stance or if it is producing timber products in the correct way.

FSC watch is an organization that is set up to monitor the activities of the FSC and has reported many issues whereby timber products that should not be approved under its guidelines have been. You can read more here FSC-WATCH (http://www.fsc-watch.org/).

Of course having some standards met is a good thing and most of the FSC certified timber is grown sustainability. However the fact is that FSC certification for wood produced for energy in Brazil is not a concern for the wood users who buy our timber. It is not the case that we go to see wood users to sell our timber and they request that it has FSC certification. They do not say we will pay you a better price for FSC certified wood. It is of course a concern for them if they receive a fine because our projects have not been certified as a sustainable reforestation project because if they purchase wood or native timber from a project that has not been certified they will be fined, this is the way it is in Brazil!

Greenwood Management
06-18-2013, 08:43 AM
VAT is the Value Added Tax or Sales Tax which companies have to be registered for in order to offer goods and services for sale. Registering a company is not the same as being licensed to sell securities in denmark or anywhere else. If Greenwood is going to sell investments it will have to be registered in every country it sells in - whether through the internet or not. Links to the specific licenses PLEASE

You can search Google at the link I have provided here https://www.google.es/webhp?source=search_app#sclient=psy-ab&q=%22Danish+CVR%22+also+VAT&oq=%22Danish+CVR%22+also+VAT&gs_l=serp.3...26424.28383.0.29006.8.8.0.0.0.0.121. 836.4j4.8.0...0.0.0..1c.1.17.psy-ab.CSH87TYAZOQ&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=e331799db85b2f56&biw=1309&bih=726

The Danish company registration (CVR number) is also the Value Added Tax registration number or VAT number for Danish companies.

Greenwood Management
06-18-2013, 08:58 AM
In regards to forestry investment regulation this is not a security as such and outside of the remit of most regulators I have included some links in English below to try to help to explain this to you there are many more links I can supply.

Business7 - Insider Magazine - Latest News - THE FUNDAMENTALS OF INVESTING IN FORESTRY (http://www.business7.co.uk/insider-magazine/latest-news/2012/03/07/the-fundamentals-of-investing-in-forestry-106408-23778191/)
http://www.clarityglobal.com/sites/default/files/research/notes/forestry_investment.pdf

Fgold
06-18-2013, 09:27 AM
This is your view and I do not want to convince you otherwise however the FSC is one (and probably the best known) of many "green certificates" but it does not mean that all timber produced under the guidelines of the FSC is done so in the right way. Their have been numerous claims surrounding certifications on unethical companies it does mean though that these companies can sell their timber without any problem in the US or Europe but really this certification is not a completely accurate measure of a company, its ethical stance or if it is producing timber products in the correct way.

FSC watch is an organization that is set up to monitor the activities of the FSC and has reported many issues whereby timber products that should not be approved under its guidelines have been. You can read more here FSC-WATCH (http://www.fsc-watch.org/).

Of course having some standards met is a good thing and most of the FSC certified timber is grown sustainability. However the fact is that FSC certification for wood produced for energy in Brazil is not a concern for the wood users who buy our timber. It is not the case that we go to see wood users to sell our timber and they request that it has FSC certification. They do not say we will pay you a better price for FSC certified wood. It is of course a concern for them if they receive a fine because our projects have not been certified as a sustainable reforestation project because if they purchase wood or native timber from a project that has not been certified they will be fined, this is the way it is in Brazil!

There's no perfect certification system but that's not a reason to ignore the value of it. A company that claims to care about environment sustainability despises the value of "green" certificates just to avoid spending some extra costs involved in the certification process??

So your company cannot plant eucalyptus in Europe so let's do that $hit in Brazil???

So your care about environment is totally BS and its only a false "green" propaganda to sell ...

Fgold
06-18-2013, 09:38 AM
In regards to forestry investment regulation this is not a security as such and outside of the remit of most regulators I have included some links in English below to try to help to explain this to you there are many more links I can supply.

Business7 - Insider Magazine - Latest News - THE FUNDAMENTALS OF INVESTING IN FORESTRY (http://www.business7.co.uk/insider-magazine/latest-news/2012/03/07/the-fundamentals-of-investing-in-forestry-106408-23778191/)
http://www.clarityglobal.com/sites/default/files/research/notes/forestry_investment.pdf

Please don't try to lure us. What your company offer is an investment product which requires a license/regulation like VAT. Your investors are NOT buying timber phisically but just buying an investment product with medium/high yields like 12% per year....

Greenwood Management
06-18-2013, 10:55 AM
Please don't try to lure us. What your company offer is an investment product which requires a license/regulation like VAT. Your investors are NOT buying timber phisically but just buying an investment product with medium/high yields like 12% per year....

Hi Fgold, I think you may be a little unclear when you state "Your investors are NOT buying timber physically" this is exactly what our clients are buying. We offer a direct investment into timber which we grow and deliver for the client. Maybe it would be a good idea if you explain how you think our investment works and I will try to clarify the process further for you so that you can understand completely.

Greenwood Management
06-18-2013, 11:10 AM
There's no perfect certification system but that's not a reason to ignore the value of it. A company that claims to care about environment sustainability despises the value of "green" certificates just to avoid spending some extra costs involved in the certification process??

In regards to this its not that we don't care? If we were to export our timber to the US or Europe then we would of course obtain FSC accreditation which is not that hard to procure this really is required if export markets are your main market. We are a large employer in the region and this offers locals support with a job we have also given land to some locals to build a school so it is not that we don't care the company is adding something to the locals in the region. Regarding bio-diversity we use "degraded" land only which we repair before planting our timber crops this land has in the pas been overarmed and is desert like in its raw form. The difference is that we deal within the domestic market and I'm sorry but FSC accreditation does not bring any benefits environmentally or financially with our projects. We do adhere to strict licencing procedure and we are checked without any formal notice regularly to make sure that our projects are meeting environmental standards.


So your company cannot plant eucalyptus in Europe so let's do that $hit in Brazil???

So your care about environment is totally BS and its only a false "green" propaganda to sell ...

We do not promote ourselves overly as a green company although having said this if you look at the timber produced from say eucalyptus which averages growth rates of 45 cubic meters of timber per hectare per year this is the same annual timber production of 10-15 hectares of native forestry. If the timber markets relied on native forestry then there would be far less native forests in existence. All commercial timber crops are generally non-native from Sitka spruce in Europe and Eucalyptus in Portugal and Spain and this is because native pest and disease are not adapted suitably to attack non-native species. In Brazil for instance we also grow Senegal Mahogany although Brazil has its own species of Mahogany the difference is of course we could not grow native Mahogany in plantation areas because the timber would be destroyed by pests. Of course selling Senegal Mahogany into the marketplace means more native Mahogany is left can be left in native forests.

We are not "greenwashing" we are a forestry business and ethically I believe that this business not only supplies much needed jobs in the region but also supports the native forests by offering a sustainable option to cutting down native forests. Unfortunately timber will always be used until our energy needs are not carbon based and we are not reliant on timber for furniture, paper, etc etc.

fromthehood
06-18-2013, 04:06 PM
Hi Fgold, I think you may be a little unclear when you state "Your investors are NOT buying timber physically" this is exactly what our clients are buying. We offer a direct investment into timber which we grow and deliver for the client. Maybe it would be a good idea if you explain how you think our investment works and I will try to clarify the process further for you so that you can understand completely.

Do you realize how foolish you sound? Do you want us to believe that 12% income "opportunity" comes with wood delivered? All you answers are "blah, blah, blah". Everybody else on this forum knows that you are running scam. You job is to mud waters: create doubts with potential investors/marks by making a lot of posts hoping that not everybody will read them all.

Greenwood Management
06-18-2013, 04:24 PM
Do you realize how foolish you sound? Do you want us to believe that 12% income "opportunity" comes with wood delivered? All you answers are "blah, blah, blah". Everybody else on this forum knows that you are running scam. You job is to mud waters: create doubts with potential investors/marks by making a lot of posts hoping that not everybody will read them all.

Far from trying to "muddy the water" I hope I have responded with links to information that has been requested by you and others. And in fairness my only posts have been in response to questions raised by others.

I am of course happy to help if you have any questions in order for a healthy discussion on this subject.

In regards to returns these come from an established market with a proven track record of providing these returns (and in fact returns way above our projected rates).

As I stated before If I can be of help let me know and I will try to answer your questions.

fromthehood
06-18-2013, 05:34 PM
I am of course happy to help if you have any questions in order for a healthy discussion on this subject.




That's definition of muddying the waters. You did not not answer any questions. You just created enough posts that people who would want to know real information about this boiler room scam would have a problem finding it. And if you get called on it than "I am just here for a healthy discussion on this subject". This is not my first dance with scammers like you.

Greenwood Management
06-18-2013, 05:57 PM
Lets take a step back what questions would you like me to answer?

Lil Ol' Radical Me
06-18-2013, 07:18 PM
You can search Google at the link I have provided here https://www.google.es/webhp?source=search_app#sclient=psy-ab&q=%22Danish+CVR%22+also+VAT&oq=%22Danish+CVR%22+also+VAT&gs_l=serp.3...26424.28383.0.29006.8.8.0.0.0.0.121. 836.4j4.8.0...0.0.0..1c.1.17.psy-ab.CSH87TYAZOQ&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=e331799db85b2f56&biw=1309&bih=726

The Danish company registration (CVR number) is also the Value Added Tax registration number or VAT number for Danish companies.

And the licences to sell securities in the countries whose citizens you sell them to live??

fromthehood
06-18-2013, 07:19 PM
Lets take a step back what questions would you like me to answer?

OK One more time.

1) Why company hides names of its top management? And do not give me bogus answer that European do not care about management.

2)Was your boss previously involved in similar scheme? It seem like more than one Irish board has thread about your company and its owner. But of cause they are fakers and competitors.

3) Why sales phone number doubles for a corporate number? You do not get other calls other than investment ones?

4) Where are your licenses to sell securities? Yes, offering $10K investment is considered security offering. And they are supposed to be tightly regulated in not all, but in majority of European countries. Corporate registration id in Denmark has nothing to do with it.

5) If you worked with that Portuguese University, where is listing of that particular research on University's research page. They list all completed and current projects. Repeat, on their page, not yours.

Lil Ol' Radical Me
06-18-2013, 07:19 PM
Lets take a step back what questions would you like me to answer?

Umm....all the ones we have asked. So far you have just provided links to in-house data and nothing official and verifiable at all - apart form the sales tax number in Denmark

fromthehood
06-18-2013, 07:33 PM
You can search Google at the link I have provided here https://www.google.es/webhp?source=search_app#sclient=psy-ab&q=%22Danish+CVR%22+also+VAT&oq=%22Danish+CVR%22+also+VAT&gs_l=serp.3...26424.28383.0.29006.8.8.0.0.0.0.121. 836.4j4.8.0...0.0.0..1c.1.17.psy-ab.CSH87TYAZOQ&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=e331799db85b2f56&biw=1309&bih=726

The Danish company registration (CVR number) is also the Value Added Tax registration number or VAT number for Danish companies.

So you can sell wood in Denmark.

SKAT: VAT for foreign companies (http://www.skat.dk/skat.aspx?oId=2085122&vId=0) from your search.
"All foreign businesses selling goods and services in Denmark must be registered for VAT in Denmark."

Investments/securities do not fit into goods/services for an average company. There are investment goods and investment services. Both mean different things from selling securities that what your company does.

fromthehood
06-18-2013, 07:39 PM
Umm....all the ones we have asked. So far you have just provided links to in-house data and nothing official and verifiable at all - apart form the sales tax number in Denmark

As I explain below that Vat only can be used buy them to buy/sell wood or wood related machinery. Nothing to do with investments unless they are "registered" as financial services company.

Fgold
06-19-2013, 06:18 AM
Hi Fgold, I think you may be a little unclear when you state "Your investors are NOT buying timber physically" this is exactly what our clients are buying. We offer a direct investment into timber which we grow and deliver for the client. Maybe it would be a good idea if you explain how you think our investment works and I will try to clarify the process further for you so that you can understand completely.

Buying a good (timber or anything else) is totally different than investing in a specific good. Can't you see that difference between buying a good and making an investment??

If you cannot see that very clear difference you should check if besides a piece of excrement you also have something else inside your head or not...

Greenwood Management
06-19-2013, 07:56 AM
Buying a good (timber or anything else) is totally different than investing in a specific good. Can't you see that difference between buying a good and making an investment??


If you cannot see that very clear difference you should check if besides a piece of excrement you also have something else inside your head or not...

In regards to this the Danish company does not make a profit the funds are sent to Brazil and the Brazilian CNPJ number is the tax number for that company I should have the audited accounts for Brazil in a reasonably short space of time which should help with this.

One question and that is if you bought your house I presume you did that through an investment company am I correct?

Greenwood Management
06-19-2013, 07:58 AM
As I explain below that Vat only can be used buy them to buy/sell wood or wood related machinery. Nothing to do with investments unless they are "registered" as financial services company.

Greenwood asset managers is registered as a financial services company if this helps explain!

fromthehood
06-19-2013, 12:07 PM
Greenwood asset managers is registered as a financial services company if this helps explain!

But offer is from Greenwood Management Aps. Which finger did you suck "Greenwood asset managers" from? The one I saw on the web is also shady and offers investments in China.

Greenwood Management
06-19-2013, 12:29 PM
But offer is from Greenwood Management Aps. Which finger did you suck "Greenwood asset managers" from? The one I saw on the web is also shady and offers investments in China.

I was asked to supply the VAT number which I explained was the CVR number. It was then brought up that this is not the correct number because the company deals in investment forestry? So I was just trying to show the comparison with Greenwood asset managers (registered as an investment company) that has this same number.

Greenwood Management
06-19-2013, 12:30 PM
In regards to China I don't understand?

Fgold
06-19-2013, 02:54 PM
In regards to this the Danish company does not make a profit the funds are sent to Brazil and the Brazilian CNPJ number is the tax number for that company I should have the audited accounts for Brazil in a reasonably short space of time which should help with this.

One question and that is if you bought your house I presume you did that through an investment company am I correct?

A Brazilian CNPJ is not enough to offer investments in Brazil. What is your registered number in CVM Brazil : Comisso de Valores Mobilirios (http://www.cvm.gov.br/ingl/indexing.asp) ??

Buy a house or any other good/yservice is not an investment. Investment is when you invest money to get it back with a specific % ROI after a specific period of time... Investments must have a proper regulation in each country otherwise its just a FRAUD scheme!

Fgold
06-19-2013, 02:57 PM
In regards to China I don't understand?

You made a comparison with Greenwood asset managers which is another shady chinese company who offer investments in China...

Greenwood Management
06-19-2013, 03:18 PM
A Brazilian CNPJ is not enough to offer investments in Brazil. What is your registered number in CVM Brazil : Comisso de Valores Mobilirios (http://www.cvm.gov.br/ingl/indexing.asp) ??

Buy a house or any other good/yservice is not an investment. Investment is when you invest money to get it back with a specific % ROI after a specific period of time... Investments must have a proper regulation in each country otherwise its just a FRAUD scheme!

Forestry property is still property which is my point. Many people purchase forestry to receive a ROI but so also do people who purchase residential property. The fact we plant trees on this property is the only difference.

baylee
06-19-2013, 06:00 PM
Hi Fgold, I think you may be a little unclear when you state "Your investors are NOT buying timber physically" this is exactly what our clients are buying. We offer a direct investment into timber which we grow and deliver for the client. Maybe it would be a good idea if you explain how you think our investment works and I will try to clarify the process further for you so that you can understand completely.

From what I am reading it appears that you are selling investments/securities which would require licensing with appropriate agency's.

laidback
06-19-2013, 08:36 PM
From what I am reading it appears that you are selling investments/securities which would require licensing with appropriate agency's.

Of course he's selling unlicensed securities. All this BS about trees etc is exactly that, BS! Claiming that his client are actually buying timber is ludicrous because the client is not taking delivery, thus the client is an investor. Hey, Baylee, you thought Dr. Boob was a tap dancer, how about this clown?

Fgold
06-24-2013, 02:48 PM
Forestry property is still property which is my point. Many people purchase forestry to receive a ROI but so also do people who purchase residential property. The fact we plant trees on this property is the only difference.

@ GWM You are not selling properties in your website! You're offering investment opportunities which must have a proper regulation.

Lil Ol' Radical Me
06-25-2013, 06:55 AM
1.
Greenwood asset managers is registered as a financial services company if this helps explain!

Ah good. We are getting there. So please could you provide verified answers to the earlier question


And the licences to sell securities in the countries whose citizens you sell them to live?? .

For a start it is NOT registered with the FSA to sell in the UK

2. Selling wood is one thing. You get wood and invoices. Investing in a wood company as a shareholder in that company is another. You get share certificates and receipts for payment from the company. and hopefully a return on your investment at the end of the year. What do you get from Greenwood in terms of hard information and paperwork to justify the return you are receiving?

Greenwood Management
06-26-2013, 09:31 AM
1.

Ah good. We are getting there. So please could you provide verified answers to the earlier question

.

For a start it is NOT registered with the FSA to sell in the UK

2. Selling wood is one thing. You get wood and invoices. Investing in a wood company as a shareholder in that company is another. You get share certificates and receipts for payment from the company. and hopefully a return on your investment at the end of the year. What do you get from Greenwood in terms of hard information and paperwork to justify the return you are receiving?

To answer your question the company does not deal in the UK or the USA, in regards to clients they are not investing into shares and so they do not receive a share certificate they are purchasing forestry property from us.

In regards to justification of projected returns: Forestry growth and yield rates are very well known alongside market prices for timber. All our profit projections are produced independently to avoid conflict of interest so this includes our yield projections (timber volume expected) alongside current market prices reported by a qualified individual who has contacts with most of the end users. Our company sells this forestry directly to clients.

Lil Ol' Radical Me
06-26-2013, 10:40 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Lil Ol' Radical Me View Post
1.

Ah good. We are getting there. So please could you provide verified answers to the earlier question

.

For a start it is NOT registered with the FSA to sell in the UK

2. Selling wood is one thing. You get wood and invoices. Investing in a wood company as a shareholder in that company is another. You get share certificates and receipts for payment from the company. and hopefully a return on your investment at the end of the year. What do you get from Greenwood in terms of hard information and paperwork to justify the return you are receiving?



To answer your question the company does not deal in the UK or the USA, in regards to clients they are not investing into shares and so they do not receive a share certificate they are purchasing forestry property from us.

In regards to justification of projected returns: Forestry growth and yield rates are very well known alongside market prices for timber. All our profit projections are produced independently to avoid conflict of interest so this includes our yield projections (timber volume expected) alongside current market prices reported by a qualified individual who has contacts with most of the end users. Our company sells this forestry directly to clients.

Could you please answer the question above AND the question as to WHERE Greenwood is registered to sell investments? Which countries?? So far all you have told us is that you NEVER sell to US or UK citizens, so who do you sell to and WHAT are you selling - because it is not wood (large forestry trees cut down) nor is it an interest in the forest itself as there are no shares given out, so it is not investments in the companies) You have said it is Securities and those are shares. if you speculate on the Stock Exchange, there are share certificates involved, whatever the rate of return.

baylee
06-26-2013, 07:43 PM
Of course he's selling unlicensed securities. All this BS about trees etc is exactly that, BS! Claiming that his client are actually buying timber is ludicrous because the client is not taking delivery, thus the client is an investor. Hey, Baylee, you thought Dr. Boob was a tap dancer, how about this clown?

There sure are a whole lot of tap dancers around.

atkin
06-28-2013, 03:11 PM
Hi,
I found some info on Greenwood Marketing or Management who were in the Republic of Ireland 2009.
They were trying to sell forestry investment and claiming to be partners with the Irish Forestry ,NOT true.
Any cold call internet operation is very suspect .Listening to the tap dancing has just heightened my suspicions.
The website is closed and none exist .
What countries are your bank accounts in ?

cottonwallaby
08-04-2013, 09:18 PM
What countries do you conduct business in? I am located in Australia and have had a look at your website. Is it open to Australian investors, or do you only operate in Europe?

Lil Ol' Radical Me
08-05-2013, 10:50 AM
What countries do you conduct business in? I am located in Australia and have had a look at your website. Is it open to Australian investors, or do you only operate in Europe?

If they sell investments in England they are breaking the law as they are not registered with the FSA to do so.

ribshaw
08-05-2013, 02:13 PM
What countries do you conduct business in? I am located in Australia and have had a look at your website. Is it open to Australian investors, or do you only operate in Europe?

Can I ask a question, have you read this thread?

Paddy21
08-09-2013, 08:48 AM
I would advise all of those even mildly interest in this 'opportunity' to avoid like the plague. The whole 'scheme' sounds suspiciously like Prime Forestry Group, who set up essentially the same model about 10 years ago, except they were into teak in Panama.
They had a sales office in Dublin of all places, and convinced a lot of people to part with cash for a "tree ownership cert". You can google them, the Swiss liquidated the company a while back, they had convinced a lot of people in Forestry and the environmental area that they were legit, and used these same folks to hoodwink investors.
Lots of talk about trees, the environment, forestry etc but very little real details about licencing, ownership, regulation, FSA or EU investment rules, company structure, risk, etc etc.
If you want to invest in forestry there are several publicly traded firms that are fully regulated. Forestry is not a high margin business. Its slow, steady returns - pensions funds are big investors (in real companies) but these types of 'schemes' above are both long term and high risk. You'd be be better off playing the lottery, IMHO.

ribshaw
08-09-2013, 09:21 AM
I would advise all of those even mildly interest in this 'opportunity' to avoid like the plague. The whole 'scheme' sounds suspiciously like Prime Forestry Group, who set up essentially the same model about 10 years ago, except they were into teak in Panama.
They had a sales office in Dublin of all places, and convinced a lot of people to part with cash for a "tree ownership cert". You can google them, the Swiss liquidated the company a while back, they had convinced a lot of people in Forestry and the environmental area that they were legit, and used these same folks to hoodwink investors.
Lots of talk about trees, the environment, forestry etc but very little real details about licencing, ownership, regulation, FSA or EU investment rules, company structure, risk, etc etc.
If you want to invest in forestry there are several publicly traded firms that are fully regulated. Forestry is not a high margin business. Its slow, steady returns - pensions funds are big investors (in real companies) but these types of 'schemes' above are both long term and high risk. You'd be be better off playing the lottery, IMHO.

Welcome to the site Paddy21. Your post was worth repeating in full. Even if this was legitimate, something I am not convinced of my impression is there are a lot easier, cheaper, or more enjoyable ways to invest in forestry.


=========================================
The FSC, Panamanian teak plantations, and the mafiaTags: Panama, Legality, Rainforest Alliance SmartWood

SmartWood's certificate for plantation outfit Prime Forestry Panama was suspended in May 2006, but SmartWood noted at the time that:

"From February 2003 to September 2005, SmartWood carried out 5 on-site audits of Prime Forestry Panama (August 2003, April and September 2004, March and Sept 2005). Through these audits PFP provided evidence that nonconformances were being addressed and demonstrated ongoing compliance with SmartWood and FSC certification requirements."

However, far from being a sustainable forestry operation worthy of an FSC certifcate, it later transpires (see article below from Noriegaville) that the company is a front for a financial scam which has been banned from trading in some of the world's major financial centres.

Switzerland Puts Sale of Panamanian Teak Trees on Hold

23 04, by Okke Ornstein

PANAMA CITY/ZÜRICH - The Swiss banking regulators have placed Prime Forestry, a global teak plantation investment scheme operating from Zürich with plantations in Panama, under judicial supervision and started an investigation into its activities. The company, which has raked in about $60 million from investors over the years, can not move funds, has had to stop all sales activities and can not move other assets. The CEO has been forced to resign after previous securities frauds and ties with the Mafia had been exposed.

The Swiss financial authorities are the last ones to act in a long line of financial regulators - Italy, the United Kingdom, France, Norway, New Zealand and Australia, among others - which have warned the public against Prime Forestry or simply outlawed its activities.

Last February, the fraud squad of the Bermuda police warned citizens against Prime Forestry, calling them a "scam".

The Prime Forestry holding is headquartered in Switzerland where two floors of the Zürich Wirz-Tower are dedicated to aggressive boiler room style telesales of Panamanian teak trees. Prospects are sent glossy brochures and directed to the company's sleek website. The company has a Panamanian wholly owned subsidiary, Prime Forestry S.A.

Investors Buy Hot Air

Investors who part with their money after having been approached by the salesmen of Prime Forestry buy little more than a vague promise.

They do not buy land, but the right to grow trees on land in Panama.

This is a vague construction that no serious reforestation investor should ever consider and is normally not recommended by investment advisors or banks. Even so, Prime Forestry charges its clients far more - up to almost twice as much - per hectare than companies giving actual land ownership to investors.

The projections on returns offered by the teak sellers are in itself enough reason to call the company a scam. For the first returns after 7 years they count for example with a growth per hectare of 15m3.

This is outrageously optimistic and will most certainly not be met.

But they continue with selling these cubic meters against prices that are only paid for first grade teak of at least 10 years old. And what really does it is that to make the promised returns, they'd have to sell ALL teak trees on the plantation after 7 years. Which of course leaves no trees behind to guarantee similar fantastic returns in subsequent years. And this was only the pessimistic scenario!

Who are the Prime Foresters? The Mafia Connection

So who are the people behind Prime Forestry? The board of directors of the parent company in Switzerland is no less interesting than the activities in Panama. President is one Kurt Emil Meier, who in the eighties operated a penny stock scam in Europe called "Chartwell Securities." According to Swiss financial magazine CASH and This is Money in the UK, Cartwell was a boiler room telesales scam that pumped dubious penny stock.

Writes financial journalist Tony Hetherington (This is Money), who investigated Chartwell Securities at length:

"A highly organised network of 'boiler rooms' in England, France, Spain, Germany, Switzerland and elsewhere used glossy brochures and high pressure phone calls to market shares in companies that existed only on paper.

At the head of the scam was Tommy Quinn, a disbarred Brooklyn lawyer and an associate of the Genovese Mafia family. And his right-hand man? You guessed - Kurt E. Meier.

To this day, nobody knows how much they made, but over about five years, investors lost about £1.1bn. Part of Quinn's network was a corrupt broking firm in Zurich called Chartwell Securities, which had links to the shady side of the City of London.

With 150 silver-tongued salesmen hitting the phones, Chartwell raked in £16.5m from 8,000 victims. And Meier was Chartwell's president."

Quinn was eventually arrested in France, while Meier managed to get the case buried in the Swiss canton of Zug after having spent some time in prison himself as well. He then dabbled in gold, videotext and internet dating before discovering the possibilities of growing teak in a banana republic. Other principals of the Chartwell scam were recycled into the teak scheme as well.

Publications by CASH in Switzerland about Meier's murky past eventually triggered the Swiss investigations and Meier's resignation.

Outlawed everywhere, but endorsed by Panama's government

While financial regulators all over the world have acted against Prime Forestry and denounced it as a "scam," the Panamanian government is deeply involved with the multi-million dollar teak scheme.

First of all, according to the Public Registry, on the board of directors of the Panamanian subsidiary sits none less than Panama's Minister of Agriculture, Guillermo Salazar - a flagrant conflict of interest that would already be serious even if Prime Forestry would be totally above board. Salazar has not answered questions about his involvement with the outlawed teak hustlers put before him by us.

Then, prominently featured on Prime Forestry's website and promotional material are Panama's President Martin Torrijos and his wife Vivian, who visited the operations of Prime Forestry together with aforementioned Guillermo Salazar and the Minister for Public Buildings, Mr. Carlos Vallarino. The visit took place on February 4th of this year, long after financial regulators worldwide had issued fraud warnings or outlawed Prime Forestry's activities. But that does not seem to have bothered Torrijos nor his wife, as the Prime Forestry website reports: "In particular, the President's wife praised the 40% share of women working for Prime Forestry and the creation of jobs in plantation development and maintenance for Panama's indigenous population." There is no mention of investors who may have lost over $60 million altogether.

Ironically, the Panamanian government only recently warned foreign investors about dubious investment companies and real estate sales. New legislation about land ownership was promoted stating that earlier teak swindles like that of infamous San Cristobal should be prevented in the future.

Foreign investors, particularly those who are developing Panama's tourism industry, are increasingly worried about the government not acting against frauds and even legitimizing dodgy investment schemes. Earlier this year, President Torrijos practically endorsed the activities of Petaquilla Mining, a highly questionable mining outfit - if not simply a pump-and-dump stock scheme - which is headed by a former governor of Coclé who is being prosecuted for stealing public funds. "It is not very reassuring or comforting when you invest substantial amounts of money in Panama to see the President himself in bed with shadowy figures," said one entrepreneur on condition of anonymity.

We asked the American Chamber of Commerce for a comment on this very issue, but have not received a reply.

FSC-Watch: The FSC, Panamanian teak plantations, and the mafia (http://www.fsc-watch.org/archives/2006/11/05/The_FSC__Panamanian_teak_plantations__and_the_mafi a)

lapince
11-13-2013, 10:32 AM
This company Greenwood management is definitely a scam, I was stupid enough to buy one lot from them, even more stupid that it was me who found their website on the net and I contacted them, a few months ago they sent me an email saying that they have an investor who bought some lots and wants to sell lots at a very interesting price, plus many times they proposed me things but I always said no, a few days ago I wrote them saying I wanted to sell my lot because I have problems and need money, since then no reply, whereas normally they reply instantly, so whatever they say this is definitely a scam, that people need to be warned about, it's absolutely obvious, there is no doubt….

ndani
11-18-2013, 03:06 PM
I also buy some lots from them in 2011 and 2012. Everything was ok until this year. They did not send me invoice for management fees for my lots. I was thinking that i have to calculate by myself how much i will have to pay. But they appologize to me and said that they will send me immediately invoices for my management fees. Then i asked them when will they harvest my first lot. When i buy my first lot they said that it will be harvested and payed out by the end of 2014. But they calculated that they will harvest my plantation in 2018. !!??!?!? This guys can't calculate when they will harvest trees which grow 7 years. I asked him when was my plantation planted so i can calculate myself when the harvest and payment will be. I am still waiting for that answer for 2 months. I also asked him if i can sell some of mine plantation they said that this is not possible. But when I bought my first plantation I was told that it was preowned by some other client from GWM. I guess I am not good enaugh client that I can sell my plantation as other premium clients. The only thing I can do is to be quiet and pay my management fees. I was in contact with Joe Randall from Greenwood Management. I think that was Joe from GWM that also write some explaining post about their business. Likely that he will do that again and enlighten us all about their tree science.

Punchman
04-24-2014, 07:38 AM
I also buy some lots from them in 2011 and 2012. Everything was ok until this year. They did not send me invoice for management fees for my lots. I was thinking that i have to calculate by myself how much i will have to pay. But they appologize to me and said that they will send me immediately invoices for my management fees. Then i asked them when will they harvest my first lot. When i buy my first lot they said that it will be harvested and payed out by the end of 2014. But they calculated that they will harvest my plantation in 2018. !!??!?!? This guys can't calculate when they will harvest trees which grow 7 years. I asked him when was my plantation planted so i can calculate myself when the harvest and payment will be. I am still waiting for that answer for 2 months. I also asked him if i can sell some of mine plantation they said that this is not possible. But when I bought my first plantation I was told that it was preowned by some other client from GWM. I guess I am not good enaugh client that I can sell my plantation as other premium clients. The only thing I can do is to be quiet and pay my management fees. I was in contact with Joe Randall from Greenwood Management. I think that was Joe from GWM that also write some explaining post about their business. Likely that he will do that again and enlighten us all about their tree science.

C.Smullen c.smullen@gwmtv.com

Senior Investment Consultant

Tel 00 34 971 221 156

This guy is famous for investment scams not even a ponzi just sets up companies then liquidates.


Google this guy if you want to see what senior consultant give as references. a serial con man.
Through searching for this guy who conned me I became aware he was involved with GWM normally he sets the companys up but I guess here he is just working for commission on anyone he cons to invest here.

Would any reputable company employ him?

Watch out for him Christopher Smullens or his henchmen /partners Sean Keating - Howard Jones

Worldwide Sports Investments - Chris Smullen - The Westwood 100 Club (http://www.diarmaidcondon.com/worldwide-sports-investments-chris-smullen/)

GWM has got to be a scam sorry guys i see all the normal triggers.

red535
09-02-2014, 05:24 PM
This company Greenwood management is definitely a scam, I was stupid enough to buy one lot from them, even more stupid that it was me who found their website on the net and I contacted them, a few months ago they sent me an email saying that they have an investor who bought some lots and wants to sell lots at a very interesting price, plus many times they proposed me things but I always said no, a few days ago I wrote them saying I wanted to sell my lot because I have problems and need money, since then no reply, whereas normally they reply instantly, so whatever they say this is definitely a scam, that people need to be warned about, it's absolutely obvious, there is no doubt….

Also i have buyed one lot, when the time of harvest was soon they tell me date more far then established, so i decide to sell and comunicate to my account manager.

From that i have had no notice and no more request of fees.

I think a good idea to make something. For example in first time to excange between us the names and address of seller account managers for making an information databases.

neomorf
09-10-2014, 07:33 AM
Also i have buyed one lot, when the time of harvest was soon they tell me date more far then established, so i decide to sell and comunicate to my account manager.

From that i have had no notice and no more request of fees.

I think a good idea to make something. For example in first time to excange between us the names and address of seller account managers for making an information databases.

Hey,

I have also bought a lot 2 years ago..... now i see how idiot i was. Is there any legal action we could possibly do? Anything? Or we should just say our hard earn money goodbye? :(

ribshaw
09-10-2014, 09:47 AM
Hey,

I have also bought a lot 2 years ago..... now i see how idiot i was. Is there any legal action we could possibly do? Anything? Or we should just say our hard earn money goodbye? :(

You should file a report with your local law enforcement and countries securities regulators. If it is enough money you may want to consult with an attorney who specializes in securities fraud.

As for recovery of funds that is always up in the air as a lot of these scumbags spend it as fast as it comes in, but if you never try you never know.

red535
09-10-2014, 10:12 AM
I think that many people have been scammed, so if we all join we can do something succesful.

First time i repeat is necessary to find real names and real addrss of accounts manager.

I am searching my account and i think to be near to find him.

neomorf
09-10-2014, 11:44 AM
I think that many people have been scammed, so if we all join we can do something succesful.

First time i repeat is necessary to find real names and real addrss of accounts manager.

I am searching my account and i think to be near to find him.

Yeah we can join and hire an attorney if we are able to find enough people i guess. What country are you from?

My first account manager was Jack Burford, and the current one is Patrick Faherty. Also how much did u invest if you don't mind me asking? I guess there are a lot of people out there, it is just hard to find them I believe... :/

globetrotter27
12-01-2014, 10:23 AM
Yeah we can join and hire an attorney if we are able to find enough people i guess. What country are you from?

My first account manager was Jack Burford, and the current one is Patrick Faherty. Also how much did u invest if you don't mind me asking? I guess there are a lot of people out there, it is just hard to find them I believe... :/

Guys may I ask why you concluded that you have been scammed? I've invested with them a few months ago and was looking into investing again when I come across this forum. Has anyone reached harvest-time and not been given the promised returns?

ribshaw
12-01-2014, 10:31 AM
Guys may I ask why you concluded that you have been scammed? I've invested with them a few months ago and was looking into investing again when I come across this forum. Has anyone reached harvest-time and not been given the promised returns?

LOL, did you READ this forum? If so what makes you think there will be any "harvest-time" beyond what has already been harvested from your wallet?