Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

[BoBosworth56]

I'm so glad that this scam is being shut down.

[okosh]

Profitablesunrise - Profitablesunrise.com - Page 408 - Talkgold HYIP, Investment & Money Forum (http://www.talkgold.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343468&page=408)

Poster on talkgold= group had 8000 members & $12 million in a private plan.

This is a gutting.

$12million????....Cow droppings IMO. :onloo:

[okosh]

Please name one.

Been heaps.....The latest one being pimped by Ken Russo makes no claim of payments being from anything other then deposits from members. In other words a ponzi.

[EagleOne]

Been heaps.....The latest one being pimped by Ken Russo makes no claim of payments being from anything other then deposits from members. In other words a ponzi.

Hmm, been heaps. Haven't heard of that one.

[EagleOne]

The faithful are claiming that Roman will rename Profitable Sunrise once the website has been moved to the China servers and bring it back under the new name. By putting the servers in China, it is out of reach of the US authorities. Honest Injun that's the story and you can't make this stuff up.

[path2prosperity]

Please name one.

The only one that I can remember that said the whole thing was a game was one which I tried as a PUNT in 2004 or some time around then called synch funds or something like that. It lasted under a week. That was the first and last time which I tried an online money game. At least it did state that stated whan there were no more punters, the game was up!

[Fendaril]

Cease and desist hasn't reached New York yet. I wonder why

[wserra]

we do not chew up and spit out people here that have differeing views from ours.

No? What a ripoff.

I'm reporting you guys.

[SkepticalOne]

What confuses me is, who actually shut down the site? What power would any state have individually to shut him down? Let's say the servers are in CA, then maybe he really is moving them out of state where CA doesn't have the jurisdiction?
And why isn't Roman arrested? He was supposedly contacted by a news channel and claimed he's a vicitm also. Lastly, where is the Fed in all this. It would seem states have no power really.

[Gregg]

What confuses me is, who actually shut down the site? What power would any state have individually to shut him down? Let's say the servers are in CA, then maybe he really is moving them out of state where CA doesn't have the jurisdiction?
And why isn't Roman arrested? He was supposedly contacted by a news channel and claimed he's a vicitm also. Lastly, where is the Fed in all this. It would seem states have no power really.


The website is down because "Roman" wants it down, and I'll be migrating servers has nothing to do with it, more likely its "migrating Roman" to a place with more beaches than extradition treaties. I very much doubt there is a real "Roman Novak" he's just a fictional character. They can't arrest him for the same reason the tooth fairy doesn't pay tax, because he doesn't exist. I'm sure there is a real person running all this, but the likes of Nanci Jo Frazer sure don't know who or where he is, they're the ones set up to take the fall.
I'd also not be surprised that the same person isn't behind one or more other programs currently running, and maybe one will be the next big thing.

[GlimDropper]

And the rumors keep flowing:




http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc6/187523_100000497135982_765825248_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/rangerbismark)
Bismark Eghan (http://www.facebook.com/rangerbismark) Breaking news on Roman Novak website project

03/15/2013

0 Comments

Breaking news from another group which has shared this with me. By the thanks to(John S.) and (Michael S.) for this information below.

"Tina Talmack: The latest greatest news to me 2 days ago was PS was moving operations to Hong Kong where the biggest servers in the world are located and cannot be governed by any internet laws PERIOD, so get ready my fellow members, Roman is making this possible and has all of our best interest at hand. Hence reason Roman is relocating all his operations to Hong Kong. Let's see what power Roman has to get him and us out of this corrupt USA interference."

I understand that Tina is a big Group Leader in PS.
6 hours ago · Like (http://www.facebook.com/ProfitableSunrise.PrivateGroup?ref=ts&fref=ts#) · 7 (http://www.facebook.com/browse/likes?id=498232823571533)



So Hong Kong refuses to enforce any internet laws PERIOD? Good luck with that.

Oh, a "new" website is being floated as possibly THE new ProSun site over on MMG. ProfitableSunriseInvitation dot com (http://www.profitablesunriseinvitation.com/). Sorry folks, that's just a recruiting page set up by one of the downline groups. For one thing it's been online for two weeks and is linked to it's own facebook page. Another thing, one of the excuses for needing a new website was to make it "more secure" and that website has no security what so ever. Hell it doesn't even encrypt your login or password so if you signed into the real PS site through that one your average script kiddy could steal your account info.

Oh well, the next few days will be a river in Egypt for many of the Pro Sun faithful.


On edit: I'm just waiting for one of the big downline pimps to sooth the angst filled masses with something like:


I just got an email from Roman. He's very sorry that the server migration is taking longer than expected and will send out an update soon. But the GREAT news is that he assures us that all of our accounts WILL compound while the servers are down. So we're still making money even if we can't see it in our back offices.

He's such a fine Christian man.

[Fendaril]

And the rumors keep flowing:



So Hong Kong refuses to enforce any internet laws PERIOD? Good luck with that.

Oh, a "new" website is being floated as possibly THE new ProSun site over on MMG. ProfitableSunriseInvitation dot com (http://www.profitablesunriseinvitation.com/). Sorry folks, that's just a recruiting page set up by one of the downline groups. For one thing it's been online for two weeks and is linked to it's own facebook page. Another thing, one of the excuses for needing a new website was to make it "more secure" and that website has no security what so ever. Hell it doesn't even encrypt your login or password so if you signed into the real PS site through that one your average script kiddy could steal your account info.

Oh well, the next few days will be a river in Egypt for many of the Pro Sun faithful.


On edit: I'm just waiting for one of the big downline pimps to sooth the angst filled masses with something like:

Hong Kong Would probably want a piece of Roman's money cake. It will do more than good for PS

[ribshaw]

The website is down because "Roman" wants it down, and I'll be migrating servers has nothing to do with it, more likely its "migrating Roman" to a place with more beaches than extradition treaties. I very much doubt there is a real "Roman Novak" he's just a fictional character. They can't arrest him for the same reason the tooth fairy doesn't pay tax, because he doesn't exist. I'm sure there is a real person running all this, but the likes of Nanci Jo Frazer sure don't know who or where he is, they're the ones set up to take the fall.
I'd also not be surprised that the same person isn't behind one or more other programs currently running, and maybe one will be the next big thing.

The tooth fairy does not pay tax, that was laugh out loud funny.

What amazes me, (!), is that I have not seen one person come out and say Roman will just show them that he has a huge portfolio of loans backed by collateral and insurance and that will be that! It is as if people set themselves up to be preyed upon over and over. Big Government Conspiracy's, server migration, Bible quotes, upgrades, downgrades, loop d loops. If these were children I would get it.

If only I had no conscience, none of these stories have changed in hundreds of years of conning people, and yet folks continue to lighten their wallets on a dream of easy money.

[NikSam]

Hmm, I am sure Hong Kong only wanted a piece of the game before Megaupload.com and Kim Dotcom was shutdown :)

It’s game over for Kim Dotcom, the Mr Big of file-sharing (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/its-game-over-for-kim-dotcom-the-mr-big-of-filesharing-6292290.html)


And how "Roman" can continue his hard lending in US and at the same time be "out of this corrupt USA interference".

Oh, yeah he will definitely bring up another site, will your accounts and money be there? :)
In fact, did anyone say he doesn't run several at the time? (from what i saw he did run at least 2 at the time)

[Fendaril]

Hmm, I am sure Hong Kong only wanted a piece of the game before Megaupload.com and Kim Dotcom was shutdown :)

It’s game over for Kim Dotcom, the Mr Big of file-sharing (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/its-game-over-for-kim-dotcom-the-mr-big-of-filesharing-6292290.html)


And how "Roman" can continue his hard lending in US and at the same time be "out of this corrupt USA interference".

Oh, yeah he will definitely bring up another site, will your accounts and money be there? :)
In fact, did anyone say he doesn't run several at the time? (from what i saw he did run at least 2 at the time)

It won't matter if he is legal or not if he is in china with 'NO INTERNET LAWS'. He can put up the banner Eagleone posted and still operate.

[NikSam]

It won't matter if he is legal or not if he is in china with 'NO INTERNET LAWS'. He can put up the banner Eagleone posted and still operate.

Than someone please hint "Roman" that financial fraud in china is punishable up to the death penalty :)

[littleroundman]

Do you know what they do to ponzi fraudsters in China ??/

[positivity]

Good day guys,

I've been a lurker of this site since last year. I am actually checking this site if the online opportunities that are being tagged to me on facebook are legitimate and real. Because upon doing my due diligence about JBP, I stumble upon this site and it actually opened my mind when it comes to these kind of investment schemes.

I have a friend in facebook who has been a major player in these HYIP games and I don't know where to start or how to file a case with this person but he is actually earning big bucks and misleading his facebook friends on investing from JBP, ricanadfunds to Profitable Sunrise and as far as I know he actually posted a status that Roman Novak is actually meeting up with him.

If you will check his facebook account here (https://www.facebook.com/pseudocodeteam) the asian guy is this person that I am talking about and the white guy is Roman Novak. I can't find the status on his facebook now, but prolly he already hid it, but I swear to god he did told that on his status.

[Colorz]

To positivity and Gregg (some mails up), Roman Novak is not some snitch that sits down on his ass at the Seychelles looking down to his monitor seeing the money rolling in..like many in the past and probably in the future..what he is is a R E A L person, no fictional character..a bussinessman who travels around the world.
Btw. positivity, i'll will ask someone who worked with him 20 years ago if this guy on the picture is the real Roman Novak..i don't now but i doubt it..there are many Roman Novaks as you know..I will update in about an hour.

[ribshaw]

If you will check his facebook account here (https://www.facebook.com/pseudocodeteam) the asian guy is this person that I am talking about and the white guy is Roman Novak. I can't find the status on his facebook now, but prolly he already hid it, but I swear to god he did told that on his status.

Hey Positivity, welcome to real scam.

Couple of thoughts, recently I set up a "fake" facebook account to follow a favorite scam of mine. I loaded no pictures, no bio, nothing but a few IMs. I was shocked at the number of friend requests I received since I don't really exist. And the number of people who are willing to ask for "investment advice". I can only imagine if I spun a tale of riches.

The second and this might or might not take a little doing, but there is something called a sweetheart scam, Basically they use someone's photo to pose as an interested lover and then spam dating sites. There are photo catalogs of many of these scammers on line. Lots of good looking pics too. Long story sort, it would be interesting if you could find pictures of either of the two people you posted anywhere else on the web. But my gut is that is not Roman Novak or your friend.

[ribshaw]

To positivity and Gregg (some mails up), Roman Novak is not some snitch that sits down on his ass at the Seychelles looking down to his monitor seeing the money rolling in..like many in the past and probably in the future..what he is is a R E A L person, no fictional character..a bussinessman who travels around the world.
Btw. positivity, i'll will ask someone who worked with him 20 years ago if this guy on the picture is the real Roman Novak..i don't now but i doubt it..there are many Roman Novaks as you know..I will update in about an hour.

If this is the case, then Roman Novak will have no problem proving to law enforcement worldwide that he actually has a portfolio of loans, backed by collateral and insurance as he claimed. Case closed, we have all been wasting our time. Thank you for clearing this up, anyone for a game of D&D?

[Colorz]

Hey Positivity, i'm back..a little faster then an hour :-) i showed the photo, and it looks like it's pretty positive that this is Roman..so i think you are right!

[NikSam]

If this is the case, then Roman Novak will have no problem proving to law enforcement worldwide that he actually has a portfolio of loans, backed by collateral and insurance as he claimed. Case closed, we have all been wasting our time. Thank you for clearing this up, anyone for a game of D&D?
Not that fast, than all commissions and financial institutions across the world will have to come in some kind of meetings and discuss it for
several weeks , how to legalize the opportunity Novak discovered and provide some registered investment contracts or securities in which public can participate :)

Or maybe give Novak status of Municipality or approved Corporation which can publicly offer super high yield bonds, which will be available on legal exchanges and remove the possibility of Roman running off with the money. But does he really want that possibility to be taken from him ? :)

[NikSam]

To Colorz and positivity, Roman Novak doesn't even exist.
Just a Name. Anyone who claims met him , talked to him, etc is either lying or talked to the actor, there are plenty you can hire online starting at $5.

Also interesting how many PS participants remembered that now they know him somehow, or their parents know him, etc
"Roman Novak yea i knew him, or wait, maybe that Fella was Roman Polak, anyway one of those polish fellas" :)

But I am sure you will learn all the HYIP Admin tricks and see smoke and mirrors after you participate in several new blessed opportunities
after this one.

[Colorz]

Dear Niksam, go tell that to my mother who worked with him (in another branche)and another guy i know who live 5 minutes from me that they are lying..
Can you tell me how she knewed that he has a brother that is a lawyer, just like he explained on his site..she knew all the details and believe it or not, she never comes on the internet..she is from the old story..so tell me Mr Niksam!

[BoBosworth56]

A guy by the name of Georges Drozdov has created a Proftibale Sunrise spinoff site trying to rip off more people. He is posting the link on facebook.

Here is his link.

http://www.facebook.com/marnick.fraeye

[NikSam]

Dear Niksam, go tell that to my mother who worked with him (in another branche)and another guy i know who live 5 minutes from me that they are lying..
Can you tell me how she knewed that he has a brother that is a lawyer, just like he explained on his site..she knew all the details and believe it or not, she never comes on the internet..she is from the old story..so tell me Mr Niksam!

Sure PM me your mom contact details, if she claimed she knew the guys , worth checking out, hope your mom is willing to testify.
We will see what those Novak's will have to say about their involvement with the Ponzi scheme.
And how she can even connect them to PS in her head if she does not use internet?

[GlimDropper]

A guy by the name of Georges Drozdov has created a Proftibale Sunrise spinoff site trying to rip off more people. He is posting the link on facebook.

Here is his link.

http://www.facebook.com/marnick.fraeye

The site he's spamming is nothing but one of the PS groups invite page to PS. Some people falsely hoped that it was the new official site but it's just a poorly written capture page.

Is this the picture that some are suggesting may include Roman?

3366

Way too early to speculate, but may be interesting.

[NikSam]

A guy by the name of Georges Drozdov has created a Proftibale Sunrise spinoff site trying to rip off more people. He is posting the link on facebook.

Here is his link.

http://www.facebook.com/marnick.fraeye

That site (profitablesunriseinvitation.com) was setup more like a joke than a ripoff, it is not even hiding, hosted openly at websitewelcome.com at Houston, TX

UPDATE: sorry, it's just a Pimp site from the PS user "privategroup":)
That's where all the links take you to:
https://www.profitablesunrise.com/?upline=privategroup

[Fat City, LA]

To positivity and Gregg (some mails up), Roman Novak is not some snitch that sits down on his ass at the Seychelles looking down to his monitor seeing the money rolling in..like many in the past and probably in the future..what he is is a R E A L person, no fictional character..a bussinessman who travels around the world.
Btw. positivity, i'll will ask someone who worked with him 20 years ago if this guy on the picture is the real Roman Novak..i don't now but i doubt it..there are many Roman Novaks as you know..I will update in about an hour.

Roman is a concept, a complicated many layer con.

[Fat City, LA]

Dear Niksam, go tell that to my mother who worked with him (in another branche)and another guy i know who live 5 minutes from me that they are lying..
Can you tell me how she knewed that he has a brother that is a lawyer, just like he explained on his site..she knew all the details and believe it or not, she never comes on the internet..she is from the old story..so tell me Mr Niksam!

Show proof or its just BS. Anyone could say same thing.

[NikSam]

Show proof or its just BS. Anyone could say same thing.

I do not think any proof is needed here,it is obvious to the most what is going on, I dont want to say someone is lying in their face,
without taking a look what they have to support their claims with.
But Colorz ask your mom how old Roman should be now, and is she sure about the name and Rodoslav as his brother-lawyer?
Even my memory could be fuzzy about someone I knew 20 years ago.
And please ask her to listen to audio interview with Roman here: http://www.byoaudio.com/tplay/Bfca73db323f27a32f137b93ec0949b0dPgQ5Ej0cIUh0V0Vwb 0N0SQ
To me it sounds as someone who should not be more than 35 years old, did she know him when he was 15 ?

And i am still waiting on contact details of either your mom or Novaks she knew.

[GlimDropper]

A gentle word of warning for any Pro Sun members who are following along at home, I've seen the following being spammed all over facebook:






http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash4/275229_100002678785531_1752421966_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/pkmaan01)
Emi Pakistan (http://www.facebook.com/pkmaan01) i can only recomend hyipinvestigationusa@gmail.com . Pls guys dont dull yourself quickly withdraw your money from PS through them before it too late. Hyipinvestigationusa@gmail.com is the world Leading Authority on High Yield Investment Programs. they recover your deposit amount only

24 minutes ago



DON'T,...just don't.

First off if they ask you for money upfront you'll never hear from them after your payment processor passes them the cash. And if they don't ask for money upfront they'll ask you for your PS login and password. In the unlikely event that PS ever comes back online and makes payments, the people who you gave your info to will try to clean out your account. There is no magic way to make Roman pay but the beauty part of this tag along scam is that it targets people who already bought the bridge (loans) so they have a preselected group of victims to run it on.

Don't get scammed again.

[NikSam]

Heh, as always, some big HYIP with majority of gullible investors goes kaboom, advance fee frauds pop up all over
claiming to recover your money :)

[intheknow]

Someone needs to contact the Toledo or Fort Wayne TV stations to go interview Nanci Jo Frazer about all this....she claims to have spoken to this Roman even this week, so a journalist, be it TV or Print needs to go quiz her about this!

[NikSam]

3366

Sorry , it might be inappropriate , so Admins delete this post if i overdid it.

But to me it looks as a picture of a happy pedophile than a CEO of multimillion London-bridge lending company.

[EagleOne]

Someone needs to contact the Toledo or Fort Wayne TV stations to go interview Nanci Jo Frazer about all this....she claims to have spoken to this Roman even this week, so a journalist, be it TV or Print needs to go quiz her about this!

An investigative reporter, Craig Thomas, from Toledo TV station WTOL is doing a piece on PS and Nanci Jo. Not sure when it will air, but one is in the works.

[NikSam]

I would have to apologize for my previous post, but not fully,
that guy is claimed by Mark as Richard Cannon (http://www.facebook.com/rljac)
the CEO of Rican Ad Funds another damn ponzi (RicanAdFunds (http://www.ricanadfunds.com))

3367

[GlimDropper]

An investigative reporter, Craig Thomas, from Toledo TV station WTOL is doing a piece on PS and Nanci Jo. Not sure when it will air, but one is in the works.

Good to know. Trying to remember but I think WTOL were the ones who got Brad Heubner and Charley Emmenecker's perp walk on tape after Rudy Coenen's hedge fund to nowhere went bust (got busted).

And thanks for the leg work on that photo NikSam, hate to confuse one ponzi pimp with another.

[NikSam]

As James L. Paris said:



The local TV Channel in (Toledo) Bryan Ohio is interested in this story. If you want to contact them with your story, here is the information -

Craig Thomas

Anchor/Consumer Reporter

Toledo News Now

419-248-1120

[Gregg]

Dear Niksam, go tell that to my mother who worked with him (in another branche)and another guy i know who live 5 minutes from me that they are lying..
Can you tell me how she knewed that he has a brother that is a lawyer, just like he explained on his site..she knew all the details and believe it or not, she never comes on the internet..she is from the old story..so tell me Mr Niksam!

Or maybe you're just lying about it, too.

Oh, wait, you can't put anything on the internet if it's not true....

[PPBlog]

Check out this Press Enterprise story and the Comments thread below it:

REAL ESTATE: Profitable Sunrise followers criticize Internet shutdown : Real Estate (http://blog.pe.com/real-estate/2013/03/15/real-estate-profitable-sunrise-followers-criticize-internet-shutdown/)

See this one, too:

REAL ESTATE: Sunset on alleged scam, Profitable Sunrise : Real Estate (http://blog.pe.com/real-estate/2013/03/14/real-estate-sunset-on-alleged-scam-profitable-sunrise/)

It's like reliving the AdSurfDaily and Zeek stories all over again.

PPBlog

[ribshaw]

[QUOTE=NikSam;49028]I would have to apologize for my previous post, but not fully,/QUOTE]

Your cyber sleuthing skillz are mad to say the least. And I thought the exact same thing when I first looked at the picture.

[Gregg]

An investigative reporter, Craig Thomas, from Toledo TV station WTOL is doing a piece on PS and Nanci Jo. Not sure when it will air, but one is in the works.

Have him call me Lynn, I'm sort of local.

[Gregg]

Hey Positivity, i'm back..a little faster then an hour :-) i showed the photo, and it looks like it's pretty positive that this is Roman..so i think you are right!


I would have to apologize for my previous post, but not fully,
that guy is claimed by Mark as Richard Cannon (http://www.facebook.com/rljac)
the CEO of Rican Ad Funds another damn ponzi

oopsi!

Hmm, so your imaginary "pretty positive that this is Roman" ,,,oh hell...I'm flat out calling you a liar...

[Fendaril]

Dear Niksam, go tell that to my mother who worked with him (in another branche)and another guy i know who live 5 minutes from me that they are lying..
Can you tell me how she knewed that he has a brother that is a lawyer, just like he explained on his site..she knew all the details and believe it or not, she never comes on the internet..she is from the old story..so tell me Mr Niksam!

My mother met littleRoundMan in person and saw his model girlfriend and five mansions, really charming dude.

[Former Player]

Those who lost money being a part of Nanci Jo Frazer's group can sue her for their losses. I would like to keep pressing this issue because it would set a precedent. Once this type of suit was successful, the promoters would dissappear overnight. NJF is liable for your losses.

[Finix]

Check out this Press Enterprise story and the Comments thread below it:
Interesting comments. 'It's the government's fault' card is a very powerful one. No one is going to blame the admins for disappearing under the circumstances.

[Finix]

Those who lost money being a part of Nanci Jo Frazer's group can sue her for their losses. I would like to keep pressing this issue because it would set a precedent. Once this type of suit was successful, the promoters would dissappear overnight. NJF is liable for your losses.
It's a private group. They are probably all a part of F.U.M.I. as well. Religious cults want everything to be nice on the surface, no one wants a scandal in those circles.

[Former Player]

Having FUMI involved is what makes this so appetizing for a lawyer.


It's a private group. They are probably all a part of F.U.M.I. as well. Religious cults want everything to be nice on the surface, no one wants a scandal in those circles.

[Finix]

Having FUMI involved is what makes this so appetizing for a lawyer.
The lawyer will have a hard time convincing people they are victims and not willing participants in Nanci's version of Christianity.

[intheknow]

Well the one good thing in regards to suing Nanci and her FocusUp Ministries, etc is that she filed bankrupcy 2 or 3 yrs ago and won't be able to so now to get out of her debts since it's not been 7 yrs.

[intheknow]

and don't forget her false claims of her tax exempt charity

[Finix]

Well the one good thing in regards to suing Nanci and her FocusUp Ministries, etc is that she filed bankrupcy 2 or 3 yrs ago and won't be able to so now to get out of her debts since it's not been 7 yrs.
Nanci is poor too? Wow. Do you have a link to court documents?

[intheknow]

they are on pacer look under name: frazer, nancy jo

also, here's a picture of her house/office:

http://www.williamsoh.ddti.net/UserControls/Default.picx?ResourceType=Photos&Website=WilliamsOH_Auditor&Filename=V0000038%5cV0018620.jpg&Random=634990591083093688

[NikSam]

I will be seriously disappointed if after all what Nanci did she will not have to serve time in jail.

Authorities should stop treating fraudsters as a white collar crime.
If you rob a bank or a store for $1000 , cops will come and put your face into dirt while handcuffing you,
If you rob thousands of people for millions dollars they will send you a nice letter asking you to explain yourself.

WTF? there is no White Collar crime, Wild West just moved to the internet.

[Finix]

This story reminds me of some gal who now runs an anti-scam site. FraudAid or something like that. She was a major pimp for some scam, but got to be portrayed as a victim. Now she makes a living out of educating victims. Nanci might want to chat with that gal.

[Finix]

there is no White Collar crime
It used to be white collar crime, now the masses the taste for it as well. You got an epidemic.

[GlimDropper]

Nanci is poor too? Wow. Do you have a link to court documents?

I knew I had something on this in the file but never found the time to fully source it. [Link] (http://www.toledolegalnews.com/bankruptcy/details/id/97397)

I wanted to find any link between her chapter 7 bankruptcy and some of the past business dealings she pads her resume with. I mean it isn't like the Chinese stopped buying as much coal as we can ship them it just seems they no longer buy it from Nanci (if they ever did). But sometimes between the momentum of daily events and having a day job, I can't always explore as many dark allies as I like.

[intheknow]

I knew I had something on this in the file but never found the time to fully source it. [Link] (http://www.toledolegalnews.com/bankruptcy/details/id/97397)

I wanted to find any link between her chapter 7 bankruptcy and some of the past business dealings she pads her resume with. I mean it isn't like the Chinese stopped buying as much coal as we can ship them it just seems they no longer buy it from Nanci (if they ever did). But sometimes between the momentum of daily events and having a day job, I can't always explore as many dark allies as I like.

go read this post, it was by Nanci and explains how she fell for a scheme and got ripped off (she is cardiobeam):
Ripoff Report | Kevin Anthony Crespo | Complaint Review: 962993 (http://www.ripoffreport.com/kevin-anthony-crespo/wanted-criminals/newport-tennessee-22d1c.htm)

[intheknow]

Now how ironic is it that she would report this Crespo guy to the local cops and have fbi investigate him and now SHE may be the one that people are calling the cops on to have FBI investigate HER.....

you couldn't make this stuff up if you tried, LOL

[Finix]

They don't call greed one of the deadly sins for nothing. Gotta feel a little sorry for Nanci, though, this is a tight spot PS admins put her in.

[GlimDropper]

Now how ironic is it that she would report this Crespo guy to the local cops and have fbi investigate him and now SHE may be the one that people are calling the cops on to have FBI investigate HER.....

you couldn't make this stuff up if you tried, LOL

I'm kinda wondering, why is it hard to find any negative info on Mr. Crespo outside of the timeline that Nanci Jo was complaining about him? Toledo OH (Lucas County) court records in his name? I could be overlooking something (or several things) but so far we only seem to have Nanci Jo's side of what I'm sure is an interesting story. I'm not trying to exonerate the man without putting in the legwork (yet) but so far all we have is the word of F.U. Ministries own Nanci Jo Frazer to accuse him. I'll thank in advance anyone proving me wrong but I'm not convinced Nanci got played, wouldn't have been the last time one of Nanci's little games bit her in the ass. Who do you think she'll try to blame for this Profitable Sunrise fiasco?


They don't call greed one of the deadly sins for nothing. Gotta feel a little sorry for Nanci, though, this is a tight spot PS admins put her in.

I think we did add a sarcasm smiley for posts like this one. If not tell me and I'll get on it right away.

[Finix]

Who do you think she'll try to blame for this Profitable Sunrise fiasco?
In this particular situation, I'd forget about blaming other people and blame the evil one himself.

[Whip]

3366

Sorry , it might be inappropriate , so Admins delete this post if i overdid it.

But to me it looks as a picture of a happy pedophile than a CEO of multimillion London-bridge lending company.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoNgZAnifvQ

[GlimDropper]

From post #1511 (http://www.realscam.com/f9/profitable-sunrise-hyip-has-anybody-dug-through-yet-1795/index61.html#post48934) in this thread:




On edit: I'm just waiting for one of the big downline pimps to sooth the angst filled masses with something like:

I just got an email from Roman. He's very sorry that the server migration is taking longer than expected and will send out an update soon. But the GREAT news is that he assures us that all of our accounts WILL compound while the servers are down. So we're still making money even if we can't see it in our back offices.

He's such a fine Christian man.




And now from the MonkeyMakerGroup forum:




http://www.MoneyMakerGroup.com/style_images/mmg_2/folder_profile_portal/user-online.pngcostasD (http://www.moneymakergroup.com/costasD-m491386.html)

http://www.MoneyMakerGroup.com/style_images/mmg_2/to_post_off.gif Today, 05:09 PM

Post #6782 (http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Profitablesunrise-Profi-t391093.html&view=findpost&p=7559759#entry7559759)





New MoneyMaker
http://www.MoneyMakerGroup.com/style_images/mmg_2/pip.gif

Group: Member
Posts: 22
Joined: 25-October 12
Member No.: 491,386


http://www.MoneyMakerGroup.com/style_images/mmg_2/spacer.gif
I quote from another forum:

'I just got an email from Roman. He's very sorry that the server migration is taking longer than expected and will send out an update soon. But the GREAT news is that he assures us that all of our accounts WILL compound while the servers are down. So we're still making money even if we can't see it in our back offices.

He's such a fine Christian man. '




Hey, I just got a new update from Nanci Jo and all of the other big downline pimps:


We have fresh news from Roman. As sensitive a man as he is, he's been facing a spiritual crises ever since the time that more than twenty separate legal jurisdictions have issued warnings against Pro Sun. He's been examining his life and his life's work and our Lord has granted him the gift of insight. He has seen that our Lord has made a temple of his soul and after deep meditation on the book of Matthew chapter 21 verses 12 and 13 Roman has chosen to drive the money changers from the temple of his soul. In keeping with his new found spiritual insight Roman has given all of his assets, and all of ours to a poverty stricken yet strikingly beautiful young woman in the Nevis Islands and will live out the rest of his life in prayer and supplication on a white sand beach on that island with her. The last we saw of him he was flicking a miniature umbrella out of his tropical drink and telling us to never give up our faith.

There is no update on server migration at this time.

Quote THAT Costas.

[Nancetta]

And it continues with 'Amanda's' sweet talk...playing the 'innocent' one...


CS says:
March 15, 2013 at 11:32 am
USING LOGIC IF I WERE TO NEED TO CLOSE DOWN MY SITE THAT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE LOOK TO EVERY DAY TO TRACK THIER PARTICIPATION AND THEIR BENEFITS I WOULD MOST DEFINITLY LET THESE PEOPLE KNOW WELL IN ADVANCE WHAT I WAS DOING SO AS NOT TO CAUSE ANY PANICK!!! WITH THIS NOTHING NOT EVEN A EMAIL TO ALL THE PARTICIPANTS WHICH HE IS CAPABABLE OF DOING ALA HIS EMAIL ABOUT A MONTH AGO!!! NOT REAL HAPPY RIGHT NOW!!! THE EXCUSE THAT THE SEC RULED IT A SECURITY IS VERY FLIMSY IT IS NOT A SECURITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE SHALL SEE!!!! IF NANCI JO AND THE OTHERS ARE AS GOOD A JUDGE OF CHARACTER AS THEY THOUHGT I INCLUDE MYSELF AS WHEN I LISTENED TO HIS 1 HOUR INTERVIEW I WAS SOLD ON HIS COMPANY MODEL AND THAT HE WAS ACTUALLY DOING IT!! IT MAY BE EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE SAYING BUT LOGIC TELLS ANOTHER STORY!!
Hmmmn...an unhappy camper in the PS saga...Let's see, will Amanda tell the truth or will she...let's just see...


Amanda says:
March 17, 2013 at 12:40 am
@CS. I have a feeling that with the site taken down the email server for PS isn’t functional and MASS emails cannot be sent…IMHO
I believe there are Facebook updates but I haven’t looked for them.
She always has 'feelings' when hyips hit the dirt...quite the monitor you are there, 'Mandy...'You believe there may be updates, but YOU haven't looked for them??'....Yeah, I'd like to be 'following' your recommendations....NOT


Cherry says:
March 16, 2013 at 6:05 am
IMHO it’s gone. It’s nearly Easter with the huge payouts that will need to be made to those that got into the ‘Long Haul’ offer… More and more US states are issuing warnings and cease and desists – I think we can safely say goodbye to PS. I hope I’m proved wrong, but in my heart I have to say I don’t think I will be.
Good luck everybody!

Well, at least 'Cherry' seems to be sort of half sensible...now let's see about 'Mandy...


Amanda says:
March 17, 2013 at 12:32 am
@Cherry. I’ll give him until Monday on the server move (they don’t pay on weekends anyhow).
I know they have issued them but it’s a very strange thing — there were no complaints from members. How can members complain when everyone has been paid each and every day. I have a very strange feeling that our naysayers (you know the ones who say they are trying to protect all of you, but who gets hurt in the end? You, of course) pointed the NC Attorney General to the affiliate ads…and then the AG began investigating those that placed them. I believe almost all of the others have only issued WARNINGS since they have no formal complaints (one of the States said there was no C & D because they had NO complaint.
Good luck to you too, Cherry.

Aah yes, keep playing it up 'Amanda'....Blame the 'naysayers'....never take responsibility for pimping scams...BTW Amanda knows the game, but she will play stupid for ever and a day as long as it keeps her outta the slammer and the ref comms comin in...


Uzair says:
March 16, 2013 at 9:14 am
This website will open when??
Amanda says:
March 17, 2013 at 12:20 am
@Uzair. According to Roman, the admin, as soon as the new server has been enabled. If we don’t see it by Monday then we definitely have a problem.

Ahahah...By Monday there will be a problem?? I can guarantee all of you that 'Mandy and all her cohorts/players got theirs out long before....and as for you who are stuck with nothing....too bad so sad according to Amanda and Deborah and all others...

[Whip]

And it continues with 'Amanda's' sweet talk...playing the 'innocent' one...


Hmmmn...an unhappy camper in the PS saga...Let's see, will Amanda tell the truth or will she...let's just see...


She always has 'feelings' when hyips hit the dirt...quite the monitor you are there, 'Mandy...'You believe there may be updates, but YOU haven't looked for them??'....Yeah, I'd like to be 'following' your recommendations....NOT



Well, at least 'Cherry' seems to be sort of half sensible...now let's see about 'Mandy...



Aah yes, keep playing it up 'Amanda'....Blame the 'naysayers'....never take responsibility for pimping scams...BTW Amanda knows the game, but she will play stupid for ever and a day as long as it keeps her outta the slammer and the ref comms comin in...



Ahahah...By Monday there will be a problem?? I can guarantee all of you that 'Mandy and all her cohorts/players got theirs out long before....and as for you who are stuck with nothing....too bad so sad according to Amanda and Deborah and all others...

amazing how much pull alleged naysayers have to bring down a 'legitimate' company.

[littleroundman]

There's "staying positive" and then there's "absolute denial"

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc153/thelittleroundman/scams%202/grasp_zps1b44fdd0.jpg

Profitable Sunrise thread, MMG HYIP ponzi forum (http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Profitablesunrise-Profi-t391093.html&view=findpost&p=7559921#entry7559921)

[scamassassin007]

Is anyone still not convinced that Profitable Sunrise is a SCAM? :loser:

Nanci Jo Fraser, still resistant to the long arm of the law, has an alias organization: NJF Global . he site has a "PRIVACY" login that leads to a form (a Google Spreadsheet application) most likely to screen visitors and HARVEST new affiliate information. She changes her appearance, even having blond hair in her other videos for other organizations she has been involved with. Apparently she has file foe bankruptcy recently and has a few "Non Profits". Nanci Jo seems to be a shady and strange character indeed who loved to seek out vulnerable "Christians". :fly_swat:

Roman Novak seems to have issues a statement, in a Profitable Sunrise Facebook page, that they will be opening up a NEW SERVER at a new location and they have a time clock countdown. Internet and skype chatter seem to confirm this notion as the "KOOL=AID" drinkers are uniting forces. The off thing is that most of them now that many government agencies across multiple countries have issues warnings and cease and desist orders. They seem to still all believe in Roman and Nanci Jo. This is the weirdest thing I have ever seen. The followers seem to be trained with quips and puns for attacks on those who dare to share the facts. They blame past companies falling such as ZEEK REWARDS on government corruption and banking conspiracies. So dad and pathetic.. that they can brainwash these people.

UPDATES:
March 16, 2013 11:22 am - Top Profitable Sunrise promoter Nanci Jo Frazer defies cease and desist orders by continuing to market the opportunity on her website. Additionally, she continues to tout the future viability of Profitable Sunrise to her followers suggesting that Roman Novak's website will be back online soon. Some of her followers are now posting in the forums that the Profitable Sunrise website is being moved to China (Hong Kong) to avoid U.S. jurisdiction.

March 15- List of provinces, states, and countries issuing warnings or cease and desist orders: Ohio, Florida, Wisconsin, Nevada, Minnesota, California, Indiana, New Mexico, Texas, Delaware, North Dakota, South Dakota, Alabama, North Carolina, South Carolina, Alaska, Maryland, New Brunswick, Quebec, Ontario, British Columbia, Alberta, New Zealand, and United Kingdom. More on the way! The feds are sure to follow. :NO:

Regulators in Minnesota, joining counterparts in several states and Canada, have ordered an Internet-based investment enterprise to stop fleecing clients with promises of quick, astronomical returns. The state Commerce Department announced Thursday that Profitable Sunrise is “operating an Internet scheme to defraud investors.” The department added that two Twin Cities men, Chad Nilsson and Casey Dorion, were soliciting would-be investors even though they are not licensed to sell securities in the state.

Articles suggest that promoters of Profitable Sunrise being served subpoenas by law enforcement!

Server address of Profitable Sunrise servers may be traced to Montreal
Among the many lies, Profitable Sunrise followers have implied in their videos and their blogs that Financial Guru Dave Ramsey endorsed the company. Dave seems angered by this and not only denies it, he is calling it a scam. Picture of his post: CLICK HERE (http://jameslparis.typepad.com/.a/6a...183e268970c-pi)

This a very good video on the SCAM and the updates!! Check It Out! :pulling_hair_out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPkxiwoojNc

:Fiddler: Let's see if they can pull off a "Miracle"! :Fiddler:

[okosh]

3366

Sorry , it might be inappropriate , so Admins delete this post if i overdid it.

But to me it looks as a picture of a happy pedophile than a CEO of multimillion London-bridge lending company.

That's what I said to Mrs Okosh when we seen a pic of the new pope on the news......

[NikSam]

Here is how PS looked in January 2012 in its begining:
3369

Have fun with the wayback machine: http://web.archive.org/web/20120106081312/https://profitablesunrise.com/index.php

[wserra]

I wanted to find any link between her chapter 7 bankruptcy and some of the past business dealings she pads her resume with. I mean it isn't like the Chinese stopped buying as much coal as we can ship them it just seems they no longer buy it from Nanci (if they ever did). But sometimes between the momentum of daily events and having a day job, I can't always explore as many dark allies as I like.

You ought to come over to Quatloos more often, GD. We specialize in providing dark allies. Between webhick's inexhaustible supply of interns and the high-level Illuminati we provide to supervise them, Q is your source nonpareil for dark allies.

Oh, you mean "dark alleys". Never mind.

Anyway . . . as to Nancy Jo Frazer. She didn't think that her bankruptcy (docket 10-33728, OHND) had anything to do with past business dealings either. The petition (https://www.box.com/shared/static/42m0wrr5w9zz7gnowa8m.pdf) shows this in a couple of ways. First of all, on the very first page, she checks the box that says "Debts are primarily consumer debts, defined in 11 U.S.C. § 101(8) as "incurred by an individual primarily for a personal, family, or household purpose" as opposed to the box for business debts. Second, if she did get stiffed by someone who owed her money from business dealings, that debt to her ought to be listed as an asset, even if uncollectible; it isn't. Third, virtually all of her unsecured debt is credit card - about $150K.

And, of course, she lists no income at all from any online activities. That's $0.00. Make of that what you will, but it surely seems that she is lying to either the Court or the masses.

[Colorz]

Or maybe you're just lying about it, too.

Oh, wait, you can't put anything on the internet if it's not true....


Well, point is that i have NO reason for lying..I just gave some info that i know..Maybe you can do something better with it then just say someone is lying because it sounds not like you wanna hear.. I expected you would say i am probably lying because your story ends here. and you just can't have that.. Typical..

[Colorz]

Sure PM me your mom contact details, if she claimed she knew the guys , worth checking out, hope your mom is willing to testify.
We will see what those Novak's will have to say about their involvement with the Ponzi scheme.
And how she can even connect them to PS in her head if she does not use internet?

Testify for what?? She just worked with him for some time (20 years ago) in another branche that have nothing to do with ponzi's, there wasn't even internet..she just gave some info of Roman what corresponds with the info on the website, thats all, so at this point i knewed this was the Roman she talked about. Is that so hard to understand for you??? connecting PS in her head wtf are you talking about..?? Jeezes..

[Colorz]

oopsi!

Hmm, so your imaginary "pretty positive that this is Roman" ,,,oh hell...I'm flat out calling you a liar...

Well, i tell you exactly how it wents..i had that little mini picture from that facebook and showed it to my mother, i asked is this Roman, she tried to take a good look at it and said, it can be it his him, she described him as a little men with a blocked body build.(20 yeas ago) I said it could be pretty positiv it was him, i do not said IT IS HIM.

[NikSam]

Testify for what?? She just worked with him for some time (20 years ago) in another branche that have nothing to do with ponzi's, there wasn't even internet..she just gave some info of Roman what corresponds with the info on the website, thats all, so at this point i knewed this was the Roman she talked about. Is that so hard to understand for you??? connecting PS in her head wtf are you talking about..?? Jeezes..

Than stop going around and saying that your mom knew the guy, if she did she better be ready, cause that person is now a wanted criminal.
But at this point it is not even worth for anyone to listen to you or your mom, she (or you) clearly said "thats the Guy" on the picture who was not "Roman".


As well as her story about working with him 20 years ago, worth nothing, "Roman" would be at school or not even born.

I tried to believe what you said, but you just lied in my face.
If there are some Novaks she knew and she thinks that the story matches to PS Novaks, I would like to find those Novaks and talk. maybe they were victims or identity fraud, there are a lot of possibilities.
If you hesitate to provide info to me on your mother or Novaks, tell me what State, City you in i will tell you who your mother should contact localy to provide all info.
But at this point nobody can take you seriously, prove me wrong.

[ICCBernd]

@Colorz: I'd like to ask you what your goal is with trying to proof something here. Who cares if Roman Novak or Radoslav Novak exists? If they do they will get busted. If not, then the owner who was operating under a fake name will get busted. And if they don't get busted then there are still some pitchmen left who will face legal charges. However this story ends, someone will get into trouble.

[Colorz]

My mother met littleRoundMan in person and saw his model girlfriend and five mansions, really charming dude.

You guys still don't get it why i post this huh? You still don't ******* get it? What is the reason i say this too you all you think? Just because it makes me happy to make a fantasy story about a guy who is not real in your eyes?? you guys are searching and doing everything to get profitable sunrise down, you guys come with information on this site that i say..wow, there are really some Pro's on this site, where they get that info? BUT you still don't know that Roman is just a real person. This is where i come in and say my story to you guys, and what do you get? LIAR LIAR LIAR, good job guys! Yeah i know guys you must test me on credibility etc etc..Well you know what, come get the info, PM me, i'll give you the adress and come out from behind your monitors, goddamned

[PPBlog]

Here is how PS looked in January 2012 in its begining:
3369

Have fun with the wayback machine: Welcome to Profitable Sunrise! (http://web.archive.org/web/20120106081312/https://profitablesunrise.com/index.php)

It's very reminiscent of the bizarrely named "Cash Tanker" HYIP, which traded on an image of Jesus Christ and purported to have a Christmas Day payout.

Oh, Cash Tanker also had a purported tie to Seychelles, rather like Profitable Sunrise.

PPBlog

[Colorz]

@Colorz: I'd like to ask you what your goal is with trying to proof something here. Who cares if Roman Novak or Radoslav Novak exists? If they do they will get busted. If not, then the owner who was operating under a fake name will get busted. And if they don't get busted then there are still some pitchmen left who will face legal charges. However this story ends, someone will get into trouble.

My goal was to share something with you guys, it is hard to see guys saying that he just don't exist if you have another story..maybe it was just better not to tell my story and to leave this alone. there are not only sharks in the ponzi world..thats what i learned here!

[NikSam]

Colorz, some people here know more details on your blessed Profitable Sunrise or "Roman" and his adventures when you or your Mom or Nanci or any other ponzi pimp out there or an average victim of that ponzi.
So if you just have nothing else to do, go "troll" somewhere where you will find like-minded people or idiots who will believe what you are saying.

[Colorz]

Colorz, some people here know more details on your blessed Profitable Sunrise or "Roman" and his adventures when you or your Mom or Nanci or any other ponzi pimp out there or an average victim of that ponzi.
So if you just have nothing else to do, go "troll" somewhere where you will find like-minded people or idiots who will believe what you are saying.

Niksam, you better take a good look to the answer of ICCBernd, thats what i call an intelligent answer without pushing people who want to share something into the deadpit.. He is right, who cares in the end if he's a real person or not. I taught that in the ponzi world a real person might be a different story because i always hear that these guys use fake names, so i am a little curious how this story is going to end..I wanted too contribute my part, but with guys like you it's very hard to do this.

[ICCBernd]

By the way, there is no need to get PS down - it is already down. :)

[GlimDropper]

Colorz, if there is anything I could wish for PS members to learn and understand from this entire debacle is never to take anything about programs like this on faith. Bridge loans? Millions and millions in assets? Make them prove it. Make them show licenses and registrations. It would take the average person less than five minutes to find out where Nanci Jo lives but nobody knows where Roman Novak lives.

It's somewhere between possible to likely that Roman Novak is a made up name. You say that 20 years ago your mother worked with a Roman Novak and that he bares some physical resemblance to someone running an unrelated ponzi scheme. I'm sorry that no one here has broken their arm patting you on the back for sharing that but what you've said doesn't exactly meet the standard of evidence. Hell I doubt it reaches the level of hearsay. If you can draw a straight line from your mother's former coworker to the possibly fictional Roman Novak of PS fame we'd be delighted to see what evidence you produce supporting the contention.

But like I started this post saying, when it comes to internet scam programs don't believe anything you can't prove.

[Gregg]

You guys still don't get it why i post this huh? You still don't ******* get it? What is the reason i say this too you all you think? Just because it makes me happy to make a fantasy story about a guy who is not real in your eyes?? you guys are searching and doing everything to get profitable sunrise down, you guys come with information on this site that i say..wow, there are really some Pro's on this site, where they get that info? BUT you still don't know that Roman is just a real person. This is where i come in and say my story to you guys, and what do you get? LIAR LIAR LIAR, good job guys! Yeah i know guys you must test me on credibility etc etc..Well you know what, come get the info, PM me, i'll give you the adress and come out from behind your monitors, goddamned
I don't know why dinar gurus swear every day that they KNOW its gonna RV in days. They have a friend in some bank who told them....but I know they're lying just as I know you're lying. It doesn't make sense, I know, but its true!

[Colorz]

Colorz, if there is anything I could wish for PS members to learn and understand from this entire debacle is never to take anything about programs like this on faith. Bridge loans? Millions and millions in assets? Make them prove it. Make them show licenses and registrations. It would take the average person less than five minutes to find out where Nanci Jo lives but nobody knows where Roman Novak lives.

It's somewhere between possible to likely that Roman Novak is a made up name. You say that 20 years ago your mother worked with a Roman Novak and that he bares some physical resemblance to someone running an unrelated ponzi scheme. I'm sorry that no one here has broken their arm patting you on the back for sharing that but what you've said doesn't exactly meet the standard of evidence. Hell I doubt it reaches the level of hearsay. If you can draw a straight line from your mother's former coworker to the possibly fictional Roman Novak of PS fame we'd be delighted to see what evidence you produce supporting the contention.

But like I started this post saying, when it comes to internet scam programs don't believe anything you can't prove.

Hmm ok i think this is very reasonable. Like i said in the past on this forum it's not my intention too proof if this a ponzi or not or to take your statements in question, its not my ground, i'm very new to all this so a let that over to you guys.
But you cannot take away from me that its VERY VERY strange that she knewed Roman Novak has a brother that is a lawyer, where he lived/origin was. At least, i find it very strange..How does this info comes on a site like PS?? and hell no, i don't need that patting on my back lol, but i don't need also the same word LIAR over and over again, I just want an answer on this one like you guys, i want to see the story unfolding..thats all.

[Colorz]

I don't know why dinar gurus swear every day that they KNOW its gonna RV in days. They have a friend in some bank who told them....but I know they're lying just as I know you're lying. It doesn't make sense, I know, but its true!

Well Gregg, nobody cares what you think, what i think, what everyone thinks..but i don't lie.

[GlimDropper]

You ought to come over to Quatloos more often, GD. We specialize in providing dark allies. Between webhick's inexhaustible supply of interns and the high-level Illuminati we provide to supervise them, Q is your source nonpareil for dark allies.

Oh, you mean "dark alleys". Never mind.

Leave it to Wes to correct my spelling and make it a compliment. BTW, my original initiation was in the traditional (Bavarian) branch, if I were to ever switch my allegiance to a local Illuminati group would I need to end the previous affiliation or would I merely be responsible from bringing the pretzels?


Anyway . . . as to Nancy Jo Frazer. She didn't think that her bankruptcy (docket 10-33728, OHND) had anything to do with past business dealings either. The petition (https://www.box.com/shared/static/42m0wrr5w9zz7gnowa8m.pdf) shows this in a couple of ways. First of all, on the very first page, she checks the box that says "Debts are primarily consumer debts, defined in 11 U.S.C. § 101(8) as "incurred by an individual primarily for a personal, family, or household purpose" as opposed to the box for business debts. Second, if she did get stiffed by someone who owed her money from business dealings, that debt to her ought to be listed as an asset, even if uncollectible; it isn't. Third, virtually all of her unsecured debt is credit card - about $150K.

And, of course, she lists no income at all from any online activities. That's $0.00. Make of that what you will, but it surely seems that she is lying to either the Court or the masses.

The information in the Rip Off Report that intheknow linked to has Nanci meeting Mr. Crespo in September of 09 and mentions that she (and her team) worked for six months before realizing that they weren't going to be paid. That would make it April of 2010 more or less and the bankruptcy was discharged (thank you for the file by the by) in May of that year. You're better situated to answer this than I but at the bottom of the document it reads:


Amounts are subject to adjustment on 4/01/13, and every three years thereafter with respect to cases commenced on or after the date of adjustment.

If someone went into significant debt to Nanci (purported to be $210K), even if it was just a few weeks or months after the BK was discharged wouldn't that trigger an adjustment in the filing? If so do you know if any amended filings exist?

As for online earnings in the period in question there may well have been none. Back then Nanci Jo was jumping from one MLM to another (which might explain her debt to income issues). Looking at her Linkedin profile (http://www.linkedin.com/in/nancifrazer?trk=pub-pbmap) the one that made me smile was:


Executive Director

UFirst Financial



2008 – 2010 (2 years)
Certified UFirst Financial Advisor marketing specialized software designed for Home Mortgage Debt reduction acceleration.

.,...


Distributor

UFirst Financial



2007 – 2009 (2 years)
Was certified to assist individuals with finacial planning technology. Established a team of reps to expand platform.


UFirst financial sells expensive "Money Merge Account® software" which not only performs the miraculous feat of paying off you mortgage sooner by sending additional payments each month but also provides similarly brilliant suggestions for paying your debts off quicker by paying your debts off quicker. The fact that Nanci Jo was an "Executive Director" in a debt elimination company while going bankrupt seems fitting, not only for her but for them as well.

[Colorz]

Than stop going around and saying that your mom knew the guy, if she did she better be ready, cause that person is now a wanted criminal.
But at this point it is not even worth for anyone to listen to you or your mom, she (or you) clearly said "thats the Guy" on the picture who was not "Roman".

As well as her story about working with him 20 years ago, worth nothing, "Roman" would be at school or not even born.
I tried to believe what you said, but you just lied in my face.
If there are some Novaks she knew and she thinks that the story matches to PS Novaks, I would like to find those Novaks and talk. maybe they were victims or identity fraud, there are a lot of possibilities.
If you hesitate to provide info to me on your mother or Novaks, tell me what State, City you in i will tell you who your mother should contact localy to provide all info.
But at this point nobody can take you seriously, prove me wrong.

Be ready? be ready for what?? tell me and let me laugh!
And i'm very sorry she was probably not right, it was a TINY picture that i showed here..sorry mate, i will
tell her that she was wrong. are you always sure? she told me he was little and blocked build and that this probably
could be him, so i said that here..i was wrong..no i am the big liar.well...

If you followed this from in the beginning you see that i somewhere put up that this Roman 20years ago did a bussiness what he still does today and where he is the ceo from, now i tell you a lot more then you actually deserve my friend.
And if they want more info they can PM me, but i don't think that the BIG mighty USA has too call me for the little info that i have and they probably already has. Btw. it's open on the internet

btw. How do you know how old he is??

[GlimDropper]

And on today's episode of PS Rumorama:


http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc6/211207_471890209510910_1611965229_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/ProfitableSunriseIBO?ref=stream)Profitable Sunrise IBOs (http://www.facebook.com/ProfitableSunriseIBO?ref=stream)

4 hours ago


If you did not read this:
Hello all,
This email only goes to those who are frontline in the group. Please pass this on to your downline and have them do the same. An earlier email did not go to everyone and this has been corrected.
Had a great conversation this last week with Roman. We talked about current affairs, Easter Gift and the future of PSR. He did want everyone to know that you are all appreciated and wanted to be sure that you know he says 'Thank you'. He also said to please be patient. We spoke for about an hour and part of that conversation was "we will be moving servers". That information went in one ear and out the other and never thought to ask any details. What is happening now is just that. One of the more important items was the growth of the Asian areas and how this will impact and benefit all of us. He said this is an area that is a great value for what he is doing with his company and for us. We talked about the delays in Support, payment solutions, why the need for wires only etc. He is in the process of training new staff for support that speak at least 3 languages. Pay solutions including Echeck and offshore banking and possibly other types will be available soon. He does not want to be held "hostage" by a pay processor company. One of the reasons for moving to wires is not for his benefit but for ours. They are not "bound" by US concerns but as anyone can imagine, different agencies want their fair share and are not comfortable unless they know exactly what (we) are doing with any earnings. While this does not impact those who are out of the US, remember, companies like STP, banks and others can be affected unless they feel confident that funds are correctly reported so it cannot be ignored. For now, we wait. In the time of knowing Roman, he is very intelligent and knows what needs to be done. Again he appreciates the support, prayers and each of us.

Hope to have more information soon!




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35 people (http://www.facebook.com/browse/likes?id=577054122327851) like this.
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Willie Sunga (http://www.facebook.com/willie.sunga) why i could not anymore log in what is happening in Profitable Sunrise?
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Jeremiah Anwuobi (http://www.facebook.com/janwuobi1) One day,the truth wil manifest
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Herman Fisher (http://www.facebook.com/fisher.herman) I dont want to hear any excuses. I want access to my money.
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Troy Papageorgiou (http://www.facebook.com/troy.papageorgiou) if waiting a couple of extra days means better chances or survival of the program/business then im happy to wait
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Profitable Sunrise IBOs (http://www.facebook.com/ProfitableSunriseIBO?ref=stream) I wonder of people who don't appreciate an update, no matter how disappointing it may seem (in terms of the wait), would feel better if PS just disappeared with zero communication? And what makes them think they can make anything happen quicker than the time it takes? Answers on a postcard... to Hong Kong!!
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Stephanie Karel France (http://www.facebook.com/stephanie.karelfrance) No kidding huh? I guess bitching and complaining makes everything all better for some! Everyone knows anytime money leaves your hands, you take a risk. I personally feel if Roman was a crook all we would be hearing is crickets. Let's try and have a little faith people. Positive energy goes a long way. Also can you imagine what Roman must be going through right now? The weight on his shoulders must be huge.
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Roman says "Thank You." How very polite of him.

[PPBlog]

Well Gregg, nobody cares what you think . . .

I care about what Gregg thinks. He has done a lot to educate the public about these outrageous frauds. He was among the first -- if not THE first -- to speak out against the Zeek-related knockoff frauds and misinformation campaigns, for example. Of course, the "industry" and the committed trolls who apparently demand Emily Post-like perfection from Gregg in etiquette and discussion pretend that he has no insight at all. He gets lanced and pilloried and ridiculed and demonized and suffers the slings and arrows when criminal organizations are stealing hundreds of millions of dollars at a time -- all because of his efforts to educate the public.

These "programs" are dangerous locally, regionally, nationally and internationally. One of the great psychological mysteries of our time is how some people can go from AdSurfDaily to Zeek to Profitable Sunrise (with stops in between) and then profess ignorance that they were/are part of a culture of in-your-face criminality.

PPBlog

[Colorz]

I care about what Gregg thinks. He has done a lot to educate the public about these outrageous frauds. He was among the first -- if not THE first -- to speak out against the Zeek-related knockoff frauds and misinformation campaigns, for example. Of course, the "industry" and the committed trolls who apparently demand Emily Post-like perfection from Gregg in etiquette and discussion pretend that he has no insight at all. He gets lanced and pilloried and ridiculed and demonized and suffers the slings and arrows when criminal organizations are stealing hundreds of millions of dollars at a time -- all because of his efforts to educate the public.

These "programs" are dangerous locally, regionally, nationally and internationally. One of the great psychological mysteries of our time is how some people can go from AdSurfDaily to Zeek to Profitable Sunrise (with stops in between) and then profess ignorance that they were/are part of a culture of in-your-face criminality.

PPBlog

- He gets lanced and pilloried and ridiculed and demonized and suffers the slings and arrows -

Well, that explains his attitude to me..

[PPBlog]

- He gets lanced and pilloried and ridiculed and demonized and suffers the slings and arrows -

Well, that explains his attitude to me..

If Gregg has an "attitude," it's for good reason. These schemes have been cherry-picking family and individual wealth for years now and putting it in the hands of criminals or worse. At least 24 securities regulators have issued either cease-and-desist orders or Investor Alerts against Profitable Sunrise, which traded on Bible verse and advertised 2.7 percent a DAY through a "plan" dubbed the "Long Haul" that had a purported Easter payout.

This AFTER "Cash Tanker," which traded on an image of Jesus Christ and had "plans" similar to Profitable Sunrise, promised a Christmas Day payout.

Both of these "programs" had a presence on the Ponzi boards, like ASD, Zeek, Imperia Invest, Legisi, P2P and MANY more. The "programs" had promoters in common. Venues in common. "Defenses" in common. Narratives in common.

One of the common things in virtually ALL of the "programs" was an effort to deflect blame onto the critics and to make their "attitudes" the issue.

It is never going to fly among people who value intellectual honesty, and yet the script never changes. That should be worrisome to all fair-minded people.

PPBlog

[Fat City, LA]

Well, point is that i have NO reason for lying..

Everytime I see that in a forum=lies.

This dipstick is lying. His reasons could include social/mental issues, not raised right, imbecile, in the asylum, etc.

[Fat City, LA]

You guys still don't get it why i post this huh? You still don't ******* get it? What is the reason i say this too you all you think? Just because it makes me happy to make a fantasy story about a guy who is not real in your eyes?? you guys are searching and doing everything to get profitable sunrise down, you guys come with information on this site that i say..wow, there are really some Pro's on this site, where they get that info? BUT you still don't know that Roman is just a real person. This is where i come in and say my story to you guys, and what do you get? LIAR LIAR LIAR, good job guys! Yeah i know guys you must test me on credibility etc etc..Well you know what, come get the info, PM me, i'll give you the adress and come out from behind your monitors, goddamned

This poster shows signs of mental illness and/or developmental disabilities.

[Gregg]

You ought to come over to Quatloos more often, GD. We specialize in providing dark allies. Between webhick's inexhaustible supply of interns and the high-level Illuminati we provide to supervise them, Q is your source nonpareil for dark allies.

Oh, you mean "dark alleys". Never mind.

Anyway . . . as to Nancy Jo Frazer. She didn't think that her bankruptcy (docket 10-33728, OHND) had anything to do with past business dealings either. The petition (https://www.box.com/shared/static/42m0wrr5w9zz7gnowa8m.pdf) shows this in a couple of ways. First of all, on the very first page, she checks the box that says "Debts are primarily consumer debts, defined in 11 U.S.C. § 101(8) as "incurred by an individual primarily for a personal, family, or household purpose" as opposed to the box for business debts. Second, if she did get stiffed by someone who owed her money from business dealings, that debt to her ought to be listed as an asset, even if uncollectible; it isn't. Third, virtually all of her unsecured debt is credit card - about $150K.

And, of course, she lists no income at all from any online activities. That's $0.00. Make of that what you will, but it surely seems that she is lying to either the Court or the masses.

Anyone else get the idea that Nanci Jo is a full on MLM junkie who gets all excited at every gathering, has been down the Amway, NuSkin, Pampered Chef, Home Furnishings, Monavie blahblablah path and has a garage, a basement and spare bedroom full of autoshipped overpriced junk? I mean, look at her house, sorry but that looks like the Mary K lady's house....
I'm also wondering, if her husband is truly a bank executive, if he knew before the bankruptcy how deep in she was? $150K in credit card debt? That's a lot vig, kids.

[Gregg]

I care about what Gregg thinks. He has done a lot to educate the public about these outrageous frauds. He was among the first -- if not THE first -- to speak out against the Zeek-related knockoff frauds and misinformation campaigns, for example. Of course, the "industry" and the committed trolls who apparently demand Emily Post-like perfection from Gregg in etiquette and discussion pretend that he has no insight at all. He gets lanced and pilloried and ridiculed and demonized and suffers the slings and arrows when criminal organizations are stealing hundreds of millions of dollars at a time -- all because of his efforts to educate the public.

These "programs" are dangerous locally, regionally, nationally and internationally. One of the great psychological mysteries of our time is how some people can go from AdSurfDaily to Zeek to Profitable Sunrise (with stops in between) and then profess ignorance that they were/are part of a culture of in-your-face criminality.

PPBlog

Why thank you, Patrick and everyone else. I do try. And even though I have never claimed to be very nice, in 10 or more years I have yet to be wrong about any of these 'programs'.

[wserra]

You say that 20 years ago your mother worked with a Roman Novak and that he bares some physical resemblance

That's disgusting. I mean, isn't it bad enough that the guy has been running an obvious ponzi, ripping people off left and right, without him taking off his clothes? Whatever happened to ponzi schemers like Madoff, who wore $2000 suits?

Oh, you mean "bears some physical resemblance". Never mind.


at the bottom of the document it reads:
Amounts are subject to adjustment on 4/01/13, and every three years thereafter with respect to cases commenced on or after the date of adjustment.

That refers to the amounts involved in the so-called "presumption of abuse dismissal" that results from failing the means test of 11 USC § 707(b)(2). Trust me, it's not worth worrying about.

My point was that Frazer claims that this guy owes her a lot of money, but didn't list the debt in her bankruptcy filing. And, while she filed the petition in May 2010, the discharge didn't occur until September. She surely has an obligation to report any change in circumstances to the Court during the pendency of the action.


As for online earnings in the period in question there may well have been none.

I have no problem at all believing that. But look what she writes on her web page (http://www.nancijofrazer.com/index.html):
Nanci Jo Frazer is one of the most recognized and influential business women today in her field. She brings her own unique skills and positive "mojo" to everything she does. Ms. Frazer has successfully held positions as CEO, COO and Vice President of Marketing for companies offering domestic and global expansion.But 2.5 years ago, she was allegedly destitute.

IT'S A MIRACLE! Or bullshit.

[Whip]

@Colorz: I'd like to ask you what your goal is with trying to proof something here. Who cares if Roman Novak or Radoslav Novak exists? If they do they will get busted. If not, then the owner who was operating under a fake name will get busted. And if they don't get busted then there are still some pitchmen left who will face legal charges. However this story ends, someone will get into trouble.

I would guess it's kinda like any other nobodys that want to say they know any given killer or scammer just to validate their existence.

[NikSam]

How silly it is for SBWire to let a story pimping a new MLM (Jubirev) through when it saying it is as great as Profitable Sunrise :)
I am not a joking, look yourself, SBWire who just last week was publishing bunch of Authorities Alerts on PS

Jubirev Banking on a Profitable Sunrise as They Prepare for Jubirev Launch Phase 3 | Mar 15, 2013 (http://www.sbwire.com/press-releases/jubirev-banking-on-a-profitable-sunrise-as-they-prepare-for-jubirev-launch-phase-3-223077.htm)

3376

Man, Some MLM pimps would even turn a busted scam to their advantage.

(jubirev has own thread here: http://www.realscam.com/f9/jubirev-jubimax-1989/)

[Whip]

Well Gregg, nobody cares what you think, what i think, what everyone thinks..but i don't lie.

You just did. I care what he thinks.

[Whip]

Everytime I see that in a forum=lies.

This dipstick is lying. His reasons could include social/mental issues, not raised right, imbecile, in the asylum, etc.

It's pretty much that he needs to get his money out and thinks this small message board is preventing that and not the scammers themselves.

[truthloldotcom]

sadly until the oppurtunity to make some real money in this country is available to the average man and woman im sorry to say that HYIP will continue to thrive and have repeat customers

if people are still out there taking risk selling drugs and robbing people at gun point for a quick come up

ponzi and many other scams where people actually get paid will be here to stay

i see alot of people call it greed but imo roman is greedy but everyone else is just seeking and searching for a good oppurtunity for themselves and those around them to make some real money

[Colorz]

I would guess it's kinda like any other nobodys that want to say they know any given killer or scammer just to validate their existence.

Did i say i know him?? Maybe i could say he was a neigbour from me for 3 years, i think that would sound alot better isn't it? I hope you feel better with your amateur psychological explanation, i can see on your answer you are
a lone person with needs that you can't fill in. like that?

[truthloldotcom]

It's pretty much that he needs to get his money out and thinks this small message board is preventing that and not the scammers themselves.

technically small messages boards like this has halted PS

not saying roman wasnt planning on dippin with the money EVENTUALLY

but this whole cease movement by the states provided an oppurtunity for Roman to flee with the cash all the while looking innocent

imo they should have let the program run

so that everyone could see Roman was planning on running with the $$$$ so they can fully see the trick

and the right man gets the blame no conspiracy theory's involved + hes caught red handed for prosecution

right now this story can be spun either way

altho dude is digging a whole with the whole moving the server to hong kong thing

but like i said one of the main reasons why hes getting away with this is the states putting PS on blast

[Colorz]

Everytime I see that in a forum=lies.

This dipstick is lying. His reasons could include social/mental issues, not raised right, imbecile, in the asylum, etc.

Well fat city, actually..i don't now what to say if i read all this..sitting here..sharing a story and then you get al this.
to be honest, i'm very new too forums and stuff like that..i don't need to go to the doctor anymore because its full
off doctors here..i'm not raised right..mental issues...imbecile.. why nobody warned me for this kind of forums??

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

technically small messages boards like this has halted PS

not saying roman wasnt planning on dippin with the money EVENTUALLY

but this whole cease movement by the states provided an oppurtunity for Roman to flee with the cash all the while looking innocent

imo they should have let the program run

so that everyone could see Roman was planning on running with the $$$$ so they can fully see the trick

and the right man gets the blame no conspiracy theory's involved + hes caught red handed for prosecution

right now this story can be spun either way

altho dude is digging a whole with the whole moving the server to hong kong thing

but like i said one of the main reasons why hes getting away with this is the states putting PS on blast

How does a series of Cease and Desist Orders make Roman look innocent? I am afraid you must have drunk the kool aid put out by leading PS shills. The Cease and Desist Orders, together with the warnings that Profitable Sunshine is illegally selling unregistered securities in several countries make him look as guilty as hell. The story now reads Profitable Sunshine received Cease and Desist Orders from many US States and Warnings from others and from the authorities in other countries. The owner Roman Novak has disappeared with the money.

Equally the authorities in the US, Canada, New Zealand and anywhere else where C & D Orders or warnings have been given are OBLIGED to enforce the law and the law does not permit the sale of unregistered securities to the public and even less where the scheme appears to be a ponzi and members are paid out of new members money. All that has happened is that there will be fewer victims than there would have been if it had been allowed to continue, as there will be no new members entering.

[ribshaw]

Truthloldotcom,

No matter which way it plays out there will always be believers and defenders. Charles Ponzi had his defenders, wife beaters have their defenders, and serial killers have fan clubs. Some people are conditioned that there are secret things that rich people do to make money. Any government involvement further ads to the conspiracy or allure. Couple that with as you say people looking for an easy way up and people are ripe for the picking.

Two things I would think about just a little differently, not everyone that got in involved in PS is looking for a quick score. Some are people that do not have the mental ability to make good choices with their money. No matter what stage a scam is in, government in my opinion has a duty to protect those people.

Second, and this is something that is not often talked about, but the best cons end with a blow off that leaves people thinking they were lucky to get out when they did. So rather than knowing they were conned, the mark just thinks one more bad break for the little guy.

[GlimDropper]

technically small messages boards like this has halted PS

not saying roman wasnt planning on dippin with the money EVENTUALLY

but this whole cease movement by the states provided an oppurtunity for Roman to flee with the cash all the while looking innocent

imo they should have let the program run

so that everyone could see Roman was planning on running with the $$$$ so they can fully see the trick

and the right man gets the blame no conspiracy theory's involved + hes caught red handed for prosecution

right now this story can be spun either way

altho dude is digging a whole with the whole moving the server to hong kong thing

but like i said one of the main reasons why hes getting away with this is the states putting PS on blast

If Roman Novak really could make millions and millions from offering bridge loans to legitimate businesses he wouldn't need a payza account to attract investors. He'd need business licenses and he'd need to file all the required registrations but once he had them there's no way in hell he'd be paying 2.15% interest per day on the money HE borrows.

But there are no bridge loans, if he was making them he could not only prove he was doing it but it'd be pretty darn hard not to be able find evidence of them taking place. Again, there are no bridge loans. So how does Roman pay one person more money than that one person paid him? Easy, by using money someone else gave him. But that person also wants to be paid more than they paid in so where does Roman find the money to do that? (You're starting to catch on) He takes money from yet other investors. This works fine until more people want to take money out than are currently paying money in. The "Easter gift" for example.

For as proud as I am of this forums coverage of the program we didn't take Pro Sun down, the laws of mathematics did. Maybe Roman pulled his runner a little sooner than he planed due to regulatory actions but he was always going to pull a runner when more money started flowing out than was coming in. If anything the action of the regulators spared some good people from losing their money here. And they ticked off a bunch of serial ponzi players which is also a win in my book.

[baylee]

You just did. I care what he thinks.

I also care what Gregg thinks and I agree with him as to never been wrong about the calling of these scams.

[okosh]

Well Gregg, nobody cares what you think, what i think, what everyone thinks..but i don't lie.

I also care and I enjoy reading his posts :RpS_smile:

[baylee]

Well, i tell you exactly how it wents..i had that little mini picture from that facebook and showed it to my mother, i asked is this Roman, she tried to take a good look at it and said, it can be it his him, she described him as a little men with a blocked body build.(20 yeas ago) I said it could be pretty positiv it was him, i do not said IT IS HIM.

As I sit here in front of my computer reading this, all that comes to mind is a Christmas Turkey. As in full of!

[Colorz]

As I sit here in front of my computer reading this, all that comes to mind is a Christmas Turkey. As in full of!

..i'm sorry if it looks like that..its the truth..just forget it, wich would be no problem in this situation.

[Finix]

if there is anything I could wish for PS members to learn and understand from this entire debacle is never to take anything about programs like this on faith
Best of luck to you, but if their life experiences thus far didn't teach them to not trust strangers, there is little anyone can do.

[ribshaw]

Best of luck to you, but if their life experiences thus far didn't teach them to not trust strangers, there is little anyone can do.

My understanding was only trust them if they have candy and a panel van, is that not correct?

3380

[Finix]

If you have the government to create rules that protect the lowest common denominator, that will leave 99% of the population over-regulated and pissed.

[Fendaril]

Roman's office.

http://www.americandreamcars.com/1970forde300van.jpg

[JCA777]

You can now add Ohio to the list. There was a warning on our local paper's web site. This thing has gone down flaming and fast! I can't believe that there are people who actually believe and defend the notion that "Roman" will rise like a Phoenix from the ashes and change the world! If one asks enough questions they will arrive at the answers. Maybe not the ones they want, but sometimes truth hurts.....................like a $1000+ loss!

[Bowtie496]

Let's give it a few more days, as we learned from Myriad Force, PS is blessed by God. Seeing how today was the Sabbath, I'm sure God and Roman will be back to work this week and the mathmatically impossible payments will resume until everybody is in profit.

[Finix]

Unless Roman's motto is "perseverance til incarceration", it shouldn't be back, and everyone is beating an already dead horse.

[littleroundman]

I can't believe that there are people who actually believe and defend

It's probably one of the hardest truths to grasp when one becomes aware of 'net fraud.

In among the shills, pimps, HYIP ponzi players and downright criminals, there ARE real human beings out there who DO believe and defend.

Our chosen course of action is not to judge, but simply to recognize reality and attempt to do something about it.

The "WHY" can be left to others to debate.

One of the foundations of REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com) came from an acceptance that no single entity can ever expect to "bring down" an online fraud or influence ALL those concerned.

The choice of the REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com) logo is no accident.

http://www.realscam.com/images/misc/realscam-logo1.gif

We KNOW, from experience, there will always be those who "believe" despite any evidence we provide.

We KNOW from experience, even after a HYIP ponzi fraudster has pleaded guilty and begun a jail sentence there will STILL be those who simply will not accept they've been conned, but will be out there defending the fraudster/s.

AND, we know there are those who will continue to snipe from the sidelines about how ineffective forums such as this are BECAUSE there are still "true believers" or still HYIP ponzi frauds in existence or the other multitude of insults thrown our way.

"WE", as in REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com) make no claims to be anything other than a source of information.

So far, the collective "WE" has a perfect score when it comes to pointing out obvious HYIP ponzi fraud DESPITE the "outrageous slings and arrows" thrown our way by those on the other side of the fence.

[Finix]

What constitutes a security online? While it clearly applies to investments made via wire transfers, does it really apply to transfer of balances between e-currency accounts of PS admins and PS members? Wouldn't the balances in e-currencies be more consumer items (like game tokens) than money?

[littleroundman]

Looking for a "Roman Novak" ???

Knock yourself out:

Roman Novák, 16.03. - Obchodní rejst

(http://rejstrik.penize.cz/roman-novak)http://roman-novak-prerov.czechtrade.us/ (http://roman-novak-prerov.czechtrade.us/)

[EagleOne]

What constitutes a security online? While it clearly applies to investments made via wire transfers, does it really apply to transfer of balances between e-currency accounts of PS admins and PS members? Wouldn't the balances in e-currencies be more consumer items (like game tokens) than money?

I guess you missed on PS website where Roman said he offered 5 "investment" plans. No mention of money games but "investing." I guess you missed that he used the words invest/investment/investments 15 times on the home page alone. I guess you missed where he mentioned the words invest/investment/investments 28 times on the FAQ Page about the type of "investments" PS offered.

Money game, hardly as no mention anywhere on his website. That's why the states and other countries have issed their alerts, warnings and cease and desist orders.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

Best of luck to you, but if their life experiences thus far didn't teach them to not trust strangers, there is little anyone can do.

Surprisingly enough, most people are basically honest and do not spend their lives looking over their shoulders for people who are about to con them. They are just not that cynical. The internet is still relatively new and many people are still not up to speed on how it can be infiltrated by criminals, who, as Lynn Edgington put it, now rob with a keyboard instead of a gun - and that includes law enforcement in many countries including certain parts of the US. Just as people used to believe everything they see on TV, they believe what is put out on the net. They have no idea of how easy it is to manipulate people from the safety of a computer screen. Maybe they are being naive, but few people who fall for these schemes grew up with a computer in front of them. If anyone doubts that, just look at grown adults chatting about the intimacies of their private lives on the public internet in Facebook who are then surprised when their private lives become publicly known!

Having said that, those people who trusted strangers on the internet are also perfectly capable of looking up information on the schemes they are in or are being persuaded to join and some of them will find this and other forums and read the content and learn. Forums like Real Scam cant change the world or human nature, but they can and do play a role in putting useful information in front of people who are looking for it.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

If you have the government to create rules that protect the lowest common denominator, that will leave 99% of the population over-regulated and pissed.

You can hardly call laws that prohibit the sale of unregistered securities on or offline overprotective. They exist in all western countries and many others. Securities are complex financial instruments outside the comprehension of the majority of the world's citizens. Real High Yield Investments are even more complex and are legally traded only by people with professional expertise and significant funds - not by 50$ members with large downlines. Laws exist to protect far more than the lowest common denominator and are necessary - Maddoff conned pension funds and financial specialists and most of the people who run internet money games in the guise of businesses are no fools and could most certainly make a good living honestly if they chose.

The online "investment/marketing "industry" " has all the trappings of legitimate business - payment processors, banking, forums, blogs, "experts" etc etc, but that no more makes it an industry than offline fraud with similar trappings, but it does make it easier to convince some people that its existence is justified - and they are not all stupid people.

A world without regulation relies on everyone being honest and, as you yourself have pointed out many times, that is far from being the case

[littleroundman]

Now we all know why recent HYIP ponzi CRIMINAL prosecutions have been centered around "fraud" "wire fraud" "money laundering" and "conspiracy" and not securities violations.

[Finix]

No mention of money games but "investing."
This isn't what I'm talking about at all. Are e-currency balances money or consumer items? A good lawyer could probably make a case that they are consumer items.

[Finix]

Forget about fraud for a second. Suppose there is HYIP that does exactly what it says and uses e-currencies only. Is it selling securities or is it selling membership in a group? It can be phrased that it is selling membership. In which case it shouldn't need registrations to sell securities.

[ribshaw]

Forget about fraud for a second. Suppose there is HYIP that does exactly what it says and uses e-currencies only. Is it selling securities or is it selling membership in a group? It can be phrased that it is selling membership. In which case it shouldn't need registrations to sell securities.

I suspect not as long as the e-currency was once created from actual cash, and/or able to be converted back in to real cash. If it had no value whatsoever then you would probably not hit anyone's radar. There is a doctrine of Substance over Form in the US, meaning it is the actual substance of the transaction, and not what you call it that really matters.

[Finix]

I suspect not as long as the e-currency was once created from actual cash, and/or able to be converted back in to real cash
Then how is it possible for sites like King.com and Worldwinner to legally operate without gaming licenses while online casinos require them?

[ribshaw]

Then how is it possible for sites like King.com and Worldwinner to legally operate without gaming licenses while online casinos require them?

I don't know that they are legally operating. In the states online gambling has not been legal for sometime. NJ just came online. As for gambling, I could care less for the most part.

Thought of a good explanation for the "membership club" though. Try opening a club in your area where men join to talk about "cars and sports" the cost is $1000 per week. At this club there also happen to be beautiful women that enjoy and get very excited of car talk shall we say. See how long the local authorities let you operate your "membership club".

[truthloldotcom]

How does a series of Cease and Desist Orders make Roman look innocent? I am afraid you must have drunk the kool aid put out by leading PS shills. The Cease and Desist Orders, together with the warnings that Profitable Sunshine is illegally selling unregistered securities in several countries make him look as guilty as hell. The story now reads Profitable Sunshine received Cease and Desist Orders from many US States and Warnings from others and from the authorities in other countries. The owner Roman Novak has disappeared with the money.

Equally the authorities in the US, Canada, New Zealand and anywhere else where C & D Orders or warnings have been given are OBLIGED to enforce the law and the law does not permit the sale of unregistered securities to the public and even less where the scheme appears to be a ponzi and members are paid out of new members money. All that has happened is that there will be fewer victims than there would have been if it had been allowed to continue, as there will be no new members entering.

no need to spill to me

i see it for what it really is and have from the beginning

what i was saying for the people who are not up on the details of the D&C

or doing thier own due dillegence to get to the bottom of whats really going on

and are only being feed info from thier private PS group leaders

its not that obvious just yet to most folks that they have been scammed

due to the C & D orders

ITS BEING EASILY SPUN !!

if you deny that then your in denial yourself

roman needs to be caught red handed and he hasnt @least not yet

matter of fact most dont even know if dude even exist

and even with that fact most are still just waiting on an email or a voice mail from him

no one is even still @ this point trying to figure out if he is a physical human being

as far as the folks on the PS private group side

most are still holding onto that Roman is working to move the business out of the long hands of the US

[truthloldotcom]

How does a series of Cease and Desist Orders make Roman look innocent? I am afraid you must have drunk the kool aid put out by leading PS shills. The Cease and Desist Orders, together with the warnings that Profitable Sunshine is illegally selling unregistered securities in several countries make him look as guilty as hell. The story now reads Profitable Sunshine received Cease and Desist Orders from many US States and Warnings from others and from the authorities in other countries. The owner Roman Novak has disappeared with the money.

Equally the authorities in the US, Canada, New Zealand and anywhere else where C & D Orders or warnings have been given are OBLIGED to enforce the law and the law does not permit the sale of unregistered securities to the public and even less where the scheme appears to be a ponzi and members are paid out of new members money. All that has happened is that there will be fewer victims than there would have been if it had been allowed to continue, as there will be no new members entering.

and thats great for the shorterm but imo its not great for the future DEMISE of ponzi schemes tho

PS will be more remembered for its payouts .... then folks losing out .........

[truthloldotcom]

Truthloldotcom,

No matter which way it plays out there will always be believers and defenders. Charles Ponzi had his defenders, wife beaters have their defenders, and serial killers have fan clubs. Some people are conditioned that there are secret things that rich people do to make money. Any government involvement further ads to the conspiracy or allure. Couple that with as you say people looking for an easy way up and people are ripe for the picking.

Two things I would think about just a little differently, not everyone that got in involved in PS is looking for a quick score. Some are people that do not have the mental ability to make good choices with their money. No matter what stage a scam is in, government in my opinion has a duty to protect those people.

Second, and this is something that is not often talked about, but the best cons end with a blow off that leaves people thinking they were lucky to get out when they did. So rather than knowing they were conned, the mark just thinks one more bad break for the little guy.

its funny that you mentioned that ... thats something i just realized with the creation of social sites like Facebook and twitter... my cousin was murdered cold blooded in the streets 2 years ago and it was on camera ... and the gun man still had people claiming his innocence ... this world we live in is doosey ... i understand every human has a mother and a fathers cousins friends etc....... but there is something called common sense and real facts ... but when it comes to those close to you ... we def tend to lose it so i understand but @ the sametime its like WTF!! .................................................. ........

[Gregg]

This isn't what I'm talking about at all. Are e-currency balances money or consumer items? A good lawyer could probably make a case that they are consumer items.


A good lawyer wouldn't bother, as at the law the important thing to establish is if it has value, and that's all.

[truthloldotcom]

I guess you missed on PS website where Roman said he offered 5 "investment" plans. No mention of money games but "investing." I guess you missed that he used the words invest/investment/investments 15 times on the home page alone. I guess you missed where he mentioned the words invest/investment/investments 28 times on the FAQ Page about the type of "investments" PS offered.

Money game, hardly as no mention anywhere on his website. That's why the states and other countries have issed their alerts, warnings and cease and desist orders.

i was just listening to an phone call with nancy jo and roman novak via the internet

and nancy jo asked roman that very question

she asked roman since people cant promote PS as an "investment"

what kind of jargon should hey use to promote PS

the crazy part is i could barely hear romans answer but i could hear Nancy loud and clear

however it sounded like he was saying that he didnt have any other way to put it and legally he had to leave it the way it was described as is on the website ???? but dont quote me on that one lol

check it out for yourself if you got time its like 60mins long lol

[intheknow]

where can I go hear the interview, do you have a link?

[NikSam]

where can I go hear the interview, do you have a link?

profitablesunriseinvestigation.com

[NikSam]

Now there are some clowns who are saying that Roman is currently moving servers to China cause he just updated DNS to Chinese BIZCN registrar.

Like this one: profitablesunrise update : drgurmeet.com (http://drgurmeet.com/profitablesunrise-update/)

For those who believe that open your eyes and look that domain record was last altered on 05-jan-2013.

And BIZCN was always the registrar of profitablesunrise.com

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

no need to spill to me

i see it for what it really is and have from the beginning

what i was saying for the people who are not up on the details of the D&C

or doing thier own due dillegence to get to the bottom of whats really going on

and are only being feed info from thier private PS group leaders

its not that obvious just yet to most folks that they have been scammed

due to the C & D orders

ITS BEING EASILY SPUN !!

if you deny that then your in denial yourself

roman needs to be caught red handed and he hasnt @least not yet

matter of fact most dont even know if dude even exist

and even with that fact most are still just waiting on an email or a voice mail from him

no one is even still @ this point trying to figure out if he is a physical human being

as far as the folks on the PS private group side

most are still holding onto that Roman is working to move the business out of the long hands of the US

I'm afraid that denial is a big issue for many victims of these money games. Noone likes to admit they have been conned. If the US government agencies had ignored their obligation to warn and/or put out Cease and Distist orders and had let Profitable Sunrise implode, there would have still been a bunch of "in-profit" shills coming out with a load of BS about Roman's innocence and there would have still been people willing to believe them - and follow them to their next "new best thing" and lose some more money.

The most hopeful sign, apart from stopping the existing scams from recruiting new members money, as has happened in PS are the claw back actions now being taken by the SEC in Zeek Rewards against the net winners of that scheme. Clawbacks can hurt the winners and stand a chance of making them more careful what they promote or join in the future, especially if the clawbacks are meaningful sums of money. We dont know the outcome yet of the Zeek clawbacks, but clawbacks do have a significant effect on all but the hard line promoters. If this is going to be the state of things to come with closed down ponzis, then it will certainly clip the wings of the diehards.

The best scenario will be when big promoters are prosecuted for their part in the schemes. It will be interesting what action is taken against Nanci Jo, if any.

[PPBlog]

Alabama has gone from an Investor Alert on March 5 to a cease-and-desist order March 14 that names two alleged promoters.

http://www.asc.state.al.us/News/2013%20News/3-14-13%20C&D%20Profitable%20Sunrise.pdf

This is significant in a few ways. For example, other states could follow the same blueprint. Beyond that, it shows that investigators aren't sitting on their hands.

But perhaps the biggest thing is that it demonstrates the type of potential liability to which "Roman Novak" and Profitable Sunrise have exposed the individual pitchmen.

This harkens back to when things started to go south at JSSTripler/JustBeenPaid. Frederick Mann more or less announced that the promoters could be on their own if the government moved against the "program." Naturally, he dialed up the antigovernment vitriol.

These "programs" create civil liability and potentially even criminal liability for the pitchmen. Minnesota also has named alleged ProfitableSunrise pitchmen, including one fresh from Zeek Rewards. Kentucky has named an alleged pitchwoman. New Zealand has named an alleged pitchman, along with NJF Global Group.

PPBlog

[intheknow]

profitablesunriseinvestigation.com

Thanks! Am halfway thru this interview now....I certainly hope someone has handed this over to the feds and to the Toledo tv reporter that is supposedly doing the story on her

[PPBlog]

This case isn't precisely on point, but it is largely on point -- the point being that scammers often say they accept "loans" from customers to lend the money out at a higher interest rate, thus creating the "profits."

New today in Suffolk County, Mass: Pay attention to the wording: "usury" and "loan sharking" were used by prosecutors to describe the alleged activities of Viking Financial Group, Inc. and its alleged operators, Steven and Lori Palladino:

From a statement by the office of Suffolk County District Attorney Daniel F. Conley after an investigation by Boston police led to Ponzi charges (italics/bolding added):

Prosecutors allege that Viking borrowed money from investors, who were told by Steven Palladino that the funds would be used to provide loans at a higher interest rate. Very little of the money was used to make loans, prosecutors said, and it instead funded a lavish lifestyle for the Palladinos. Money borrowed from new investors was then used to repay earlier investors and to make monthly interest payments to all of the investors, prosecutors said.

Transactions show that investors’ money was often transferred from Viking’s account into personal accounts held by the Palladinos and used to cover personal expenses including a vacation in the Bahamas, rent for Steven Palladino’s mistress, and hundreds of thousands of dollars paid to casinos to cover apparent gambling losses, prosecutors said.

In addition, Steven Palladino allegedly made use of investors’ funds when he paid $350,000 to satisfy a condition of his probation on a 2007 Superior Court conviction for defrauding an elderly relative.

Among the charges: "three counts of usury, commonly referred to as loan sharking," prosecutors said.

Source:

Husband, Wife Charged in Alleged Multi-Million-Dollar Scam | Suffolk County District Attorney's Office (http://www.suffolkdistrictattorney.com/front-page-press-office/husband-wife-charged-in-alleged-multi-million-dollar-scam/)

PPBlog

[EagleOne]

As usual the silence from the major promoters of PS is deafening. No MyriadForce quoting scripture on how God is blessing PS and will resurrect it from the dead. And of course the faithful are trying all kinds of excuses for why the website is not back up after 4 days. A few picked up on the comment that supposedly came from Roman about his being in Hong Kong that one of the first things he did was get a massage. Now that was funny in a sick way.

Sadly many are holding to hope that the website will be back and PS will be back paying again. Many are willing to give it a week before they will be willing to admit it is over. Others will hang on hoping for much longer. All the newbies are in denial right now, while the major players have moved on to their next Ponzi de Jour just like they always do. And of course they will claim they were duped just like everyone else.

Thus the viscious cyle will repeat itself until the next Ponzi de Jour collapses, and it will be rinse, spin and do it again.

[fishbay]

As usual the silence from the major promoters of PS is deafening. No MyriadForce quoting scripture on how God is blessing PS and will resurrect it from the dead. And of course the faithful are trying all kinds of excuses for why the website is not back up after 4 days. A few picked up on the comment that supposedly came from Roman about his being in Hong Kong that one of the first things he did was get a massage. Now that was funny in a sick way.

Sadly many are holding to hope that the website will be back and PS will be back paying again. Many are willing to give it a week before they will be willing to admit it is over. Others will hang on hoping for much longer. All the newbies are in denial right now, while the major players have moved on to their next Ponzi de Jour just like they always do. And of course they will claim they were duped just like everyone else.

Thus the viscious cyle will repeat itself until the next Ponzi de Jour collapses, and it will be rinse, spin and do it again.



Well.. you guy's are right again.. Looks like Faith Sloan is already Pimping another ponzi :Leaf Power Team Meeting With the Owners | Faith Sloan Gray Matter: Making Cash, Advertising/Marketing, and Ramblings - faithsloan.com (http://faithsloan.com/leaf-power-team-q-a-and-marketing-materials/leaf-power-team-meeting-with-owners/)

[EagleOne]

Well.. you guy's are right again.. Looks like Faith Sloan is already Pimping another ponzi :Leaf Power Team Meeting With the Owners | Faith Sloan Gray Matter: Making Cash, Advertising/Marketing, and Ramblings - faithsloan.com (http://faithsloan.com/leaf-power-team-q-a-and-marketing-materials/leaf-power-team-meeting-with-owners/)

Is anyone suprised. This is what the Faith Sloan's and Ken Russo's do. They go from Ponzi to Ponzi. I'm sure you will see Ken Russo pimping this too, along with several others.

[PPBlog]

Now, New Jersey with an Investor Alert . . .

From Attorney General General Jeffrey S. Chiesa:

“Like many frauds, this offer sounds too good to be true – and it appears to be just that. Investors across the country, including here in New Jersey, are reporting this fraud and we’re alerting our residents so they can avoid becoming victims.”

Source:

State of New Jersey (http://nj.gov/oag/newsreleases13/pr20130318b.html)

PPblog

[Finix]

A good lawyer wouldn't bother, as at the law the important thing to establish is if it has value, and that's all.
Consumer products, including memberships in the country clubs, have value as well. They are not governed by the same laws as investments. They are governed by the laws that basically make them deliver what they claim to deliver.

[Finix]

Thought of a good explanation for the "membership club" though. Try opening a club in your area where men join to talk about "cars and sports" the cost is $1000 per week. At this club there also happen to be beautiful women that enjoy and get very excited of car talk shall we say. See how long the local authorities let you operate your "membership club".
It all depends on where you are in world and how it's presented. When you eat at Hooters, are you paying for the food or for the view?

[tcob]

Here is a new training video for when Pro Sun comes back online

Profitable Sunrise New Fast Track Training to Riches! Seious Pro Sun Affilaites Only/1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09PUPYkNv_U)

[Finix]

Here is a new training video for when Pro Sun comes back online

Profitable Sunrise New Fast Track Training to Riches! Seious Pro Sun Affilaites Only/1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09PUPYkNv_U)
ROFL Good one!

[ribshaw]

It all depends on where you are in world and how it's presented. When you eat at Hooters, are you paying for the food or for the view?

I had to stop eating at Hooters, the staff kept asking for my number and ogling me while I ate. Found it all very degrading.

[Finix]

I had to stop eating at Hooters, the staff kept asking for my number and ogling me while I ate. Found it all very degrading.
Did you sue them for your money back, plus pain and suffering?

[Finix]

A world without regulation relies on everyone being honest
A world without financial regulation relies on people using caution when entering financial dealings, not on everyone being honest. A good rule is "if you don't understand it, you don't need it".

[GlimDropper]

Rumorama Update:


http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc6/203560_296635507118398_1250042522_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/profitablesunrisereviewlegit?ref=stream)Profitable sunrise (http://www.facebook.com/profitablesunrisereviewlegit?ref=stream)3 hours ago


Official Information emailed by my team member from group leader

WE ARE ALL WAITING FOR SERVER MIGRATION TO BE COMPLETE. We cannot email support until it is back online to be advised as to the decisions of their Legal Team as to the function of their website in relation to those states and countries requesting registration. We are confident Mr. Novak will keep his word on all things as he always has thus far.

We ask that the Christian Media Gurus and others be respectful of the many Christian individuals and families who have come to this program because of the positive research that was presented for the past three years. We as Christian brothers and sisters are to lift each other up and support... helping all to end up in the right direction. We insist that you remove all destructive posts if you are who you say you are. We keep you in our prayers as well.

NOTE: No registration requirement was ever requested by any State or Country for Profitable Sunrise in 2009, 2010, 2011 or 2012 to our knowledge. That is the reason that it was stated by our team members that registration was not an issue (as the company was also offshore) according to our research at the time. 2013 is presenting "change" that their Legal Team is addressing. All change can be good!





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Eugene Jackson Jr (http://www.facebook.com/eugene.jacksonjr) Eugene Jackson Jr I think this is it folks money is gone out of thin air thanks to James Paris running his mouth a website can only be down but so long an the reality has to set in some of us are going to take a big hit due to big mouths.
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Nigel Kua (http://www.facebook.com/nigel.kua) Let GOD bless everyone for now, all we do now is to pray. If it is the GOD's will that this is a SCAM then we should learn an expensive lesson, but if its not, please help those who really needs them.
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Nigel Kua (http://www.facebook.com/nigel.kua) Many things can be done if everyone is financially free, and all will have the time to do GOD's work and spread the Gospel rather than spending all the time in routine work which drive us away from the Lord..
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Gotta hand it to them, it's hard to cram so much BS into so few words.

[NikSam]

look, New Jersey just woke up:
NJ Scam Alert: Beware of a Company Called Profitable Sunrise (http://nj1015.com/nj-scam-alert-beware-of-a-company-called-profitable-sunrise/)

Good morning New Jersey :)

[baylee]

It all depends on where you are in world and how it's presented. When you eat at Hooters, are you paying for the food or for the view?

LOL, I love the wings and the view so I vote both.

[Finix]

When you deposit money into a HYIP, you are basically paying for the opportunity to make a very high return very fast. The odds of winning are about 1/5. It really isn't bad at all, plus it could be viewed as a game of skill and not chance.

[busttheblock]

Rumorama Update:



Gotta hand it to them, it's hard to cram so much BS into so few words.

Wow, makes me want to puke reading that garbage!:shocked:

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

A world without financial regulation relies on people using caution when entering financial dealings, not on everyone being honest. A good rule is "if you don't understand it, you don't need it".

I am going to call BS on that comment. When someone enters into financial dealings with another person, a fiduciary relationship exists. As such, the legal and moral onus is on the person selling the investment or other financial product, whether it be a HYIP or not, to tell the truth. The reason we have laws is because there is no reason why anyone entering into a relationship of this nature should have to second guess the intentions of the person offering it.

The idea that people go through life looking over their shoulder with the idea that everyone they deal with is corrupt is cynical at best. As Çi commented before, the majority of people on the planet are basically honest and live their lives without being touched directly by fraudsters.

Here is one definition of fiduciary relationship in case it is not clear

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/fiduciary-relationship.html (http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/fiduciary-relationship.html)

[Finix]

For the nth time, the internet is not real world. It's actually an opportunity to see what would the world look like if different rules existed.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

....and one thing is obvious. The owner and major promoters of Profitable Sunshine have abused their fiduciary relationship with their members 200%

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

For the nth time, the internet is not real world. It's actually an opportunity to see what would the world look like if different rules existed.

Oh but it is. It's a new part of the real world. Your HYIP world is a sub culture within the real world, not outside it. It is simply the criiminal world taken online

[PPBlog]

When you deposit money into a HYIP, you are basically paying for the opportunity to make a very high return very fast.

No. You are not. What you're paying for is an opportunity to be victimized and to victimize other people.


The odds of winning are about 1/5. It really isn't bad at all, plus it could be viewed as a game of skill and not chance.

There is ZERO chance that any "odds" of winning are reliable. Besides that, the "odds" vary by time of entry and other unknown variables such as the behavior of insiders (both disclosed and undisclosed), the undisclosed rake, the undisclosed degree of larceny in the hearts of the operators/insiders, whether the criminal goals have been met or are still pending, the degree to which a scheme makes it on the radar of law-enforcement agencies and the degree to which criminal networks target the "opportunity" for second-tier scams such as duping people into providing payment-processor or banking log-in information.

Moreover, any person who views it as a "game of skill and not chance" is advancing an argument of maximum idiocy. HYIPS are not the game of poker as played lawfully in some jurisdictions. HYIPs are straight-line wire-fraud schemes that present the financial equivalent of heroin as the choicest of candies.

Profitable Sunrise is worse than many HYIPs -- none of which are good -- in the sense that it marries securities fraud to what fundamentally is a tale about loansharking. What makes it even worse is that "Christians" who may or may not understand the issues are "defending" both securities fraud and usury.

There are many questions that needed asked, but this is most important: What individual or group benefits from issuing appeals to Christian greed and who is the REAL audience for the unbelievably audacious PR message?

"They" might as well announce that "they" can steal from Christians at will either by being corrupt Christians themselves or by posing as "Christians."

It is organized crime -- or worse.

PPBlog

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

The internet is simply a newish communication system which has a lot of benefits for many people. People use it for real business. It transmits real news. People use it to write letters and to speak to each other. It is a great way to advertise real products and services to a wider public. It is a wonderful means to learn about things and to communicate across borders. The fact that it is used by criminals does not make it any less real. The money people lose to HYIP fraudsters is real enough.

[Finix]

Keep shutting them down, and you'll never have a chance to collect reliable data on the HYIP models and odds of winning. The models themselves are interesting because if they are taken out of the context of criminal enterprise and used for gaming, they could be a real asset for those who like the opportunities for capital accumulation they present.

[Finix]

How do random scripture quotes make it worse? True believers know it's all BS.

BTW, there is no fundamental difference between PS making a buck off of Christians and Jim misleading them into praying for money instead of enlightenment.

[GlimDropper]

How do random scripture quotes make it worse? True believers know it's all BS.

BTW, there is no fundamental difference between PS making a buck off of Christians and Jim misleading them into praying for money instead of enlightenment.

The affinity fraud issue, when someone uses faith or any other commonality to abuse the members of that group it weakens that community. And I wish that true believers really did know it was all BS.

One of the early Zeek fallout calls had a story that torn at my rather jaded heartstrings. A church pastor in the rural American south had put some money into Zeek but was skeptical, he placed his daily ad but had a hard time really trusting it. But he must have gotten in early enough that by early 2012 he was pulling money out with some regularity. You'd need to have heard his voice but as cynical as I can be I believed every word he said. He wasn't bragging about how much easy money he made he talked about how blessed he felt because with the money he was taking out of Zeek he no longer needed to draw a salary from his church and they could use that money to make repairs to the building and fix up their church bus.

The man was in no way a "player," he didn't know it was a game. His church secretary noticed he wasn't drawing checks from the church and when he told her why, she joined Zeek as well. All told 25 members of his church joined Zeek between April and August of 2012 when the program was shuttered, all of them lost their investment. The pain and mortification in that mans voice when he asked what he could tell his church members struck me like a blow. A man with a sincere concern for his church learned in one of the hardest ways possible that too good to be true isn't. Zeek Rewards weakened the bonds between what seemed to be a very humble and spiritual man and his congregation.

I can't speak for Mr. Paris and don't need to, he isn't at issue here. But when the Nanci Jo Frazer's of the world use their mail order divinity degrees as window dressing for a con game it isn't just her victims wallets that get hurt.

[Finix]

The rules are different when you start involving other people. It's not gambling any more, it's promoting. You'd think a preacher would have enough morals to investigate the opp in depth before sharing it with people who trusted him, but guess not.

[EagleOne]

The rules are different when you start involving other people. It's not gambling any more, it's promoting. You'd think a preacher would have enough morals to investigate the opp in depth before sharing it with people who trusted him, but guess not.

And I wish the players, shills and pimps in this would stop lying to their victims and get a conscious and realize they are a criminal just like the person running the Ponzi. Their lack of morals speaks volumes about them, as well as their defenders.

[Finix]

Wishful thinking is a wonderful thing. If people stopped lying to themselves and others, they would stop being people and become gods.

[baylee]

When you deposit money into a HYIP, you are basically paying for the opportunity to make a very high return very fast. The odds of winning are about 1/5. It really isn't bad at all, plus it could be viewed as a game of skill and not chance.

From the zeek receiver website it appears to be one in eight.

[Finix]

Still better than counting cards in Vegas. No danger of being beat up by the casino staff either.

[baylee]

Still better than counting cards in Vegas. No danger of being beat up by the casino staff either.
What a shame, in the movie Casino I rather like where they took a hammer to the hand of the cheater/scammer/cheerleader/ pimp! What the heck, that's just my opinion and my opinion and $3.00 just might buy a cup of coffee somewhere.

[Finix]

It was a good movie, wasn't it? Curiously, the casino in the movie was a front for money laundering for the mob.

[laidback]

It all depends on where you are in world and how it's presented. When you eat at Hooters, are you paying for the food or for the view?

LOL, it depends on whether or not you're the waitress, Ptichka (sp?)...!

[Finix]

Well, this was a fine discussion. Better than beating the dead horse, I think, and a lot less depressing. Nite, all.

[Nancetta]

Does this sound like any sort of Doctor to you...a 'professional'? Umm...errr...


boulderdr says:
March 18, 2013 at 2:43 am
I find it hard to believe that Roman could just up and run. Where will he run to and where can he hide. The paper trail is enormous! Just seems preposterous to think that.
I can see why they are having trouble getting back up again. The negativity is building from those who don’t want us to be able to share in this business model. Fat wall street cats and banks using our money can reap these rates but we are not allowed to. Why, because we are a conglomerate group pooling out money together. Those are not the rules of the game. You either play by the rules or get blasted by the naysayers.
Hopefully tomorrow will be a bright opening for all of us.
boulderdr


boulderdr, Joseph Montante - Gravatar Profile (http://en.gravatar.com/boulderdr)

[EagleOne]

You can add Maine to the list of states who have issued an alert or warning about PS. Warning issued here:
Maine securities regulators warn of 'Profitable Sunrise' online investment scam (http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/3a413e58bb084e2083fecfa0153a6936/ME--Investment-Scam)

[SkepticalOne]

Yet...Where o where is the Fed authorities and prosecutors in all this? Where is the SEC?
It's the states, one by one. Kinda starnge. Just sayin..

[NikSam]

Yet...Where o where is the Fed authorities and prosecutors in all this? Where is the SEC?
It's the states, one by one. Kinda starnge. Just sayin..

How do you expect Federal government to act on an unidentified individual?
Wait, when guilty parties will be established and more likely it will be only against pitchmen.

[Whip]

Does this sound like any sort of Doctor to you...a 'professional'? Umm...errr...




boulderdr, Joseph Montante - Gravatar Profile (http://en.gravatar.com/boulderdr)

well, yeah...............dr dumbass.

[okosh]

When you deposit money into a HYIP, you are basically paying for the opportunity to make a very high return very fast.

No finix...When you deposit in a hyip you are paying for the opportunity to steal from those who deposit after you.....

[laidback]

No finix...When you deposit in a hyip you are paying for the opportunity to steal from those who deposit after you.....

...and/or be screwed by the admin when he runs with the money...!;-)

[okosh]

...and/or be screwed by the admin when he runs with the money...!;-)

This I would call one of the risks...Just like the SEC closing the hyip down is a risk....
But a persons sole intention when they deposit in a hyip is to steal the money of those who join after them....

[Finix]

Presumably, if they wanted to steal, there are better opportunities that don't present a risk to their investment capital. Risking own money is a form of speculation, in real ventures or virtual ones, makes no difference.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

Presumably, if they wanted to steal, there are better opportunities that don't present a risk to their investment capital. Risking own money is a form of speculation, in real ventures or virtual ones, makes no difference.

Oh but they are already stealing. As you know perfectly well, the leading pimps and shills for HYIPs do not deposit vast sums of their investment capital in HYIPs. They deposit modest sums and promote the scheme. The money they receive comes from their and others downlines which, as there are no real investments or profit from sales, is effectively and LEGALLY called stealing from the newer members.

[Finix]

The promoters are not playing the same game as the rest of the members. They are capitalizing on the opportunity to obtain referral fees instead of the opportunity to make a return on investment. In other words, the are reducing their own risks by increasing the risks for the rest since the referral fee money comes out from the same source.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

The promoters are not playing the same game as the rest of the members. They are capitalizing on the opportunity to obtain referral fees instead of the opportunity to make a return on investment. In other words, the are reducing their own risks by increasing the risks for the rest since the referral fee money comes out from the same source.


Correct, they are stealing willingly and knowingly and then there are all the shades of grey ending up with the totally innocent and deceived investor who is stealing without realizing it. But it's all theft at the end of the day - they just use a keyboard or fine words instead of a gun. It makes no difference whether it is on the internet or not. The money stolen or lost is real.

[Finix]

It stops being real money the moment it leaves the mainstream financial system. It enters a different system at that point and doesn't become real money until it re-enters the mainstream system again.

[Finix]

Outside of the pure money flow, the interesting aspect of the alternative monetary system is that it represents a shift of power of printing money from the government agencies to the hands of obscure and largely anonymous virtual entities. This shift of power is the real reason the governments feel threatened by alternative currencies.

[ribshaw]

Outside of the pure money flow, the interesting aspect of the alternative monetary system is that it represents a shift of power of printing money from the government agencies to the hands of obscure and largely anonymous virtual entities. This shift of power is the real reason the governments feel threatened by alternative currencies.

I really don't buy that they feel threatened, other than from money launderers and tax cheats. Big business has no interest in alternative currencies until they become mainstream.

[Finix]

Money laundering and tax evasion by whom? The real world criminal organizations have no use for alternative currencies either, they have their own systems.

[Finix]

This brings us back to the point that this is nothing but virtual reality. Even the crime is virtual and not real. The only online programs that were shut down used the real banking system and offline promotion methods.

[Gregg]

From the zeek receiver website it appears to be one in eight.

actually, 88% will lose but that's by money, not number of people, and assumes 5 iterations of growth.

[Finix]

The HYIP model seems to give approximately the same distribution as the most successful economy in the world - skewed towards 1% of top earners.

[NikSam]

Sorry to interrupt, but perhaps politics,virtual reality and ponzi busters and apologists views should take place in some other thread.
Finix, you are clogging here with non related to the Topic posts.

[Finix]

Be patient. Your "topic" is in the depth of VR now. If it comes back, you'll have something to talk about.

[EagleOne]

This was posted at MMG, and was supposedly from one of the major group promoters of PS. This is so full of lies and BS it is hard to read with a straight face. All they are doing is trying to keep their members from going to the authorities and reporting them. That's all this is about, but for the faithful they will buy into it as being true:

UpDate on PS:

Good day Everyone,

I am sending this to those of you in my first level down line as well as others I may have introduced to this wonderful program as a courtesy contact and encourage you to also make those in your down line aware of the following as well.

By now, most of you know you are unable to access your Profitable Sunrise Site, they are updating and migrating the site to a larger server and improving security of backoffice. It is expected to be down a few days. As you also know, I have been cautioning all in my down line for quite sometime that they should expect some adjustments to come in this area because of the tremendous growth over the past 3 months.

This is not without need or purpose.

Since my first week's association with PS, I have been encouraging them through skype and email to become more compliant with US laws which are specific as to whom may use some of the terminology outlined on our web site. Such terms (in the USA) are generally reserved for use by those registered as securities "sales" agents. We are not sales agents, only participates, in the program, so it would be best for us to comply with the temporary cease and desist orders of a few states and not add any new participates until Roman has the issues settled and then advise's us, as participates, as to what we can or can not do.

At the time Profitable Sunrise was created, there was no precedent established for an offshore system operating in a Universal capacity as we do. As a result, as different agencies (in different countries) learn of our existence, it is becoming necessary for them to make a determination of operational boundaries they expect. As this is done, we must also adapt so that the structure we have in place satisfies transparently with ALL such agencies that do or could ask it of us. Even with the forthcoming adjustments, it still may be necessary to register in each of the fifty States and perhaps beyond. Time and circumstances will tell. To be sure, Roman and his legal team are on top of this so as to guarantee the longevity of our program.

Additionally, there were some security issues with the current web site that needed to be addressed, as well as some much needed staffing increases. We are also looking forward to a new banking, payment, and in-house debit card (and possible e-check) system that is in the works to more efficiently expedite our deposit and payment receipts. This is really an exciting prospect!

At this time, Roman is hiring an additional 100 employees to facilitate customer service and has expanded his legal team as well to make sure that not only is our web site secure but also totally compliant with both the law and our purpose, while making sure that the processing of funds back to the Participants are unencumbered when needed.

As a result. it has been the decision to accept NO new Participants at this time and to accept NO further funding into any existing Participant's accounts until such procedures are updated. Once the system goes back on line, you will be able to process your daily balances as usual, including making withdrawals in your Long Haul Plan from your Easter Bonus or from daily rates (noncompounding) in your Private Plan. Even when the system comes back on line, it would be best to not make any effort to add new Participants or make any additional deposits into your accounts until notified by either Roman or Profitable Sunrise Support.You can still take funds from your available balance and add it to your Private plan, that would not constitute a new outside deposit. We want to make sure we help stay in compliance and let Roman get everything in proper order.

The Easter Bonus will be a very important function to PS and Roman looks forward to expediting these pay outs by bank wire as planned, as this will fully demonstrate that our Participants are the true beneficiaries of this program.

Our particular group has tripled in size in only a few months and other groups have experience equal growth. One can only imagine trying to keep up with the management of such growth.

I appreciate the efforts that are being pursued. and look forward to the refinements to come and the blessings this program will produce. Profitable Sunrise is with keen for-site, moving forward. I, for one and happy to be here! This message is being passed on by someone in close contact with Roman.


MAY GOD BLESS AND KEEP HIS HANDS ON OUR BLESSINGS

[Finix]

Yes, there are those, and then there are those who tell it like it is


You don't understand the short life span of a Hyip. A good Hyip lasts always more months up to some years only.
My referrals are instructed what means a Hyip business. Nobody exaggerated the investments, everybody is in profit.

Hyips are best to be taken as a game. Then you cannot make a mistake.
In every business are those that tell fancy instead of clarifying the business, the risks, the chances.
Hyps are thousands of times more profitable than any tax-controlled national lottery, bettings or sports lists.
Profitablesunrise - Profitablesunrise.com (http://www.moneymakergroup.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=391093&view=findpost&p=7565171)

The HYIP forum memberships self-regulate just fine without the naysayers.

[JCA777]

As of right now, there are over 200 people viewing this thread. Many of them have to be in ProSun, or should I say, used to be in ProSun. I can really understand if someone is a total newbie that they can continue to buy this BS for a while. But after a while you just have to "smell" something as it constantly gets spread. I know someone who dropped $10K in ProSun and still is spouting these communications as if they come from someone "up" the ProSun food chain and is really inside information. I told them not to get involved before they did, told them it was a Ponzi (they tried to recruit me) and told them that it was a scam. They got in anyway and still believe that it will come back and they'll get their money out. Hey, I believe in hope as much as the next guy, but one can only hope that ProSun is as crooked as it seems and that it about all. ProSun is GONE! The $$$ are GONE! Roman (or whoever) is GONE! And the truth is that hope is GONE as well! Learn from it, move on, and don't get suckered again! These are scams. If you think not, check out HYIP scripts, Free and Commercial, the most Advanced and Secure HYIP Manager Script - Gold Coders (http://www.goldcoders.com) and see where many of these "admins" get their sites from. How much did I lose in ProSun? Exactly $9.49. I threw in $10 just to watch from the inside what was happening. The price of admission was worth the show! The show was just like in the Wizard of Oz when the curtain gets pulled back! I knew what was behind the curtain the whole time because I did my due diligence. I suggest that you do yours.


This was posted at MMG, and was supposedly from one of the major group promoters of PS. This is so full of lies and BS it is hard to read with a straight face. All they are doing is trying to keep their members from going to the authorities and reporting them. That's all this is about, but for the faithful they will buy into it as being true:

UpDate on PS:

Good day Everyone,

I am sending this to those of you in my first level down line as well as others I may have introduced to this wonderful program as a courtesy contact and encourage you to also make those in your down line aware of the following as well.

By now, most of you know you are unable to access your Profitable Sunrise Site, they are updating and migrating the site to a larger server and improving security of backoffice. It is expected to be down a few days. As you also know, I have been cautioning all in my down line for quite sometime that they should expect some adjustments to come in this area because of the tremendous growth over the past 3 months.

This is not without need or purpose.

Since my first week's association with PS, I have been encouraging them through skype and email to become more compliant with US laws which are specific as to whom may use some of the terminology outlined on our web site. Such terms (in the USA) are generally reserved for use by those registered as securities "sales" agents. We are not sales agents, only participates, in the program, so it would be best for us to comply with the temporary cease and desist orders of a few states and not add any new participates until Roman has the issues settled and then advise's us, as participates, as to what we can or can not do.

At the time Profitable Sunrise was created, there was no precedent established for an offshore system operating in a Universal capacity as we do. As a result, as different agencies (in different countries) learn of our existence, it is becoming necessary for them to make a determination of operational boundaries they expect. As this is done, we must also adapt so that the structure we have in place satisfies transparently with ALL such agencies that do or could ask it of us. Even with the forthcoming adjustments, it still may be necessary to register in each of the fifty States and perhaps beyond. Time and circumstances will tell. To be sure, Roman and his legal team are on top of this so as to guarantee the longevity of our program.

Additionally, there were some security issues with the current web site that needed to be addressed, as well as some much needed staffing increases. We are also looking forward to a new banking, payment, and in-house debit card (and possible e-check) system that is in the works to more efficiently expedite our deposit and payment receipts. This is really an exciting prospect!

At this time, Roman is hiring an additional 100 employees to facilitate customer service and has expanded his legal team as well to make sure that not only is our web site secure but also totally compliant with both the law and our purpose, while making sure that the processing of funds back to the Participants are unencumbered when needed.

As a result. it has been the decision to accept NO new Participants at this time and to accept NO further funding into any existing Participant's accounts until such procedures are updated. Once the system goes back on line, you will be able to process your daily balances as usual, including making withdrawals in your Long Haul Plan from your Easter Bonus or from daily rates (noncompounding) in your Private Plan. Even when the system comes back on line, it would be best to not make any effort to add new Participants or make any additional deposits into your accounts until notified by either Roman or Profitable Sunrise Support.You can still take funds from your available balance and add it to your Private plan, that would not constitute a new outside deposit. We want to make sure we help stay in compliance and let Roman get everything in proper order.

The Easter Bonus will be a very important function to PS and Roman looks forward to expediting these pay outs by bank wire as planned, as this will fully demonstrate that our Participants are the true beneficiaries of this program.

Our particular group has tripled in size in only a few months and other groups have experience equal growth. One can only imagine trying to keep up with the management of such growth.

I appreciate the efforts that are being pursued. and look forward to the refinements to come and the blessings this program will produce. Profitable Sunrise is with keen for-site, moving forward. I, for one and happy to be here! This message is being passed on by someone in close contact with Roman.


MAY GOD BLESS AND KEEP HIS HANDS ON OUR BLESSINGS

[EagleOne]

I was wondering how long before this excuse was used by Roman. Here is a text message that someone supposedly got from Roman and it said, and I quote:

I am experience difficulty with server power plug. I may need another cup of coffee and extra massage. Hopefully from girl this time.
Have a blessed day"

Gee, I have lost count of all the Ponzi admin that has used this excuse. And the sad part is the faithful will believe it. Just more delaying tactics.

By the way, if anyone reading this still believes that Roman can make the Easter/Long Haul payout, you should know he would have to pay over $1.8 Trillion Dollars if he did. That is using the figure of $250 Million that was stated to be in the long haul program. But let's just use 1/10 of that or $25 Million (and we know it was way more than that because just two groups had more than that in this program), he would only need to pay $1.8 Billion.

Now stop and think how many hard money/bridge fund loans he would have to do to pay that out in the long haul program. Still want to believe this is not a Ponzi?

[Fat City, LA]

Email above Eagle posted- has all the bullet points of a proper ponzi email.
Could be an example email in 'Ponzi for Dummies' (fictional book)

They are setting up for another program. Enough will be desperate and/or blame the government for one more pocket fleecing.

No clawbacks for this one, going to gut people.

There is a sophistication and genuine understanding of hyip/religions blurry boundries, in this caper.
This crew will be back and they have millions.

[GlimDropper]

Rumorama:




http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/368625_1108452746_1406374655_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/victor.ledezm)
Victor Alfonso Freire Ledezma (http://www.facebook.com/victor.ledezm) PS UPDATE FROM credits from Cynthia Basinger

I received this update this morning from someone in NJF's group: Ok. She talked to Roman he said the website will go online on 3/22/13 around noon. she also said that he made a lot of changes to the website so its going to look a little difrrent but people can get used to it very easy. She will be making an update on her website soon too. Im very happy with this news and hope you will be too.
about an hour ago · Like (http://www.facebook.com/ProfitableSunrise.PrivateGroup?ref=ts&fref=ts#) · 2 (http://www.facebook.com/browse/likes?id=499665456761603)



Poor sweet Cynthia, she's still waiting for Robert Craddock to get Zeek Rewards reopened. Hey, maybe Robert can fly to China with a power converter and give Roman a backrub, that should get Pro Sun back up and running in no time. Except Robert would need to hold a few fund raising conference calls first because Robert never does anything on his own dime, he needed all the Cynthia's of the world to pay the legal fees of fighting his own clawbacks.

[intheknow]

Even worse is the fact that Nanci Jo Frazer is still talking to "Roman" how stupid can Nanci actually be????

[Finix]

This crew will be back and they have millions.
The HYIPers would love for them to be back. Gotta love their style. Paying, paying, paying, paying, paying, gone. No excuses, no selective payments, no BS.

[EagleOne]

The HYIPers would love for them to be back. Gotta love their style. Paying, paying, paying, paying, paying, gone. No excuses, no selective payments, no BS.

Let me correct that for you. Stealing, paying, stealing, paying, stealing, paying, stealing, paying, stealing, payng, stealing, paying, gone. Excuse is he can't find the plug for the new servers, all BS.

[Finix]

You are still thinking in terms of real world standards. For the HYIP arena, PS was honest to a fault. A true gem.

[EagleOne]

You are still thinking in terms of real world standards. For the HYIP arena, PS was honest to a fault. A true gem.

There is no "Honesty" in any HYIP. It is all "LIES." So it was lying to a fault. I know you want to defend the Ponzi admins, pimps, shills and players, but they are all still crooks by any standard. HYIP deals in fantasy land, but in the "real world" they are just common criminals.

[Finix]

I don't need to defend anyone, they are doing just fine without me. I'm telling you that for the HYIP world it was an excellent HYIP and the admins would be more than welcome in that world to run another one.

[EagleOne]

I don't need to defend anyone, they are doing just fine without me. I'm telling you that for the HYIP world it was an excellent HYIP and the admins would be more than welcome in that world to run another one.

Of course they would. Crooks of a feather stick together.

[Finix]

You show again how little you know about a subject you claim to be an expert in. There are plenty of admins HYIPers hate.

[okosh]

Let me correct that for you. Stealing, paying, stealing, paying, stealing, paying, stealing, paying, stealing, payng, stealing, paying, gone. Excuse is he can't find the plug for the new servers, all BS.

And let me further correct that for you. Stealing, Stealing, Stealing, Stealing, Stealing, GONE.....

[NikSam]

Even worse is the fact that Nanci Jo Frazer is still talking to "Roman" how stupid can Nanci actually be????

Who said that Nanci talking to "roman" ? they just making stuff up, "roman" gone already and would only talk to nanci if he is some kind of perverted sadistic troll, which i do not think he gets pleasure from that, it is just money to him, he got them, work is done.


And he does not even need to spread the wrong hope, there are plenty team leaders who will do that for him without even asking them.

[okosh]

You are still thinking in terms of real world standards. For the HYIP arena, PS was honest to a fault. A true gem.

Like hell it was....If he was "honest" in the players eyes then admin would not be gone right b4 long term plan was due to be paid.
An honest admin in players eyes pays till the ponzi implodes then sends mass email to say "Game Over"....
A dishonest admin in players eyes does what "Roman" did with PS.....

[okosh]

I don't need to defend anyone, they are doing just fine without me.

Yet you do the best you can every chance you get....

[littleroundman]

Like hell it was....If he was "honest" in the players eyes then admin would not be gone right b4 long term plan was due to be paid.
An honest admin in players eyes pays till the ponzi implodes then sends mass email to say "Game Over"....
A dishonest admin in players eyes does what "Roman" did with PS.....

Of course, this attempted deflection from the subject at hand is based on the premise that "Roman Novak" and Profitable Sunrise are members of the mythical HYIP "industry" band of brothers.

The HYIP industry label is an artificially created justification for outright fraud.

Neither Novak or Profitable Sunrise have included themselves in any "industry," only apologists for their activities have done that.

Put simply, what "Roman Novak" and those behind Profitable Sunrise have done (and continue to do) is maintain they have a legitimate business offering to double peoples' money.

NOWHERE can be found any other explanation from Novak or Profitable Sunrise.

There are no disclaimers, hints or other indicators FROM ROMAN NOVAK OR PROFITABLE SUNRISE that Profitable Sunrise is anything but a legitimate online "opportunity"


The HYIP ponzi "industry" label is nothing but a convenient label to excuse the fact innocent people are being defrauded.

The fact that HYIP industry "insiders" do or do not know what they are doing or that those insiders claim others "should" know is irrelevant.

They don't, and, unless we want to revert to the rule of the jungle where the strongest gets to eat the "weak" fraud will remain illegal, no matter the label.

[Ramshod]

Profitable sunrise will be alive soon as they have updated the database to a Chinese Company called
BIZCN.COM, INC.
Detail info is here
Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to InterNIC | The Internet's Network Information Center (http://www.internic.net)
for detailed information.
Domain Name: PROFITABLESUNRISE.COM
Registrar: BIZCN.COM, INC.
Whois Server: whois.bizcn.com
Referral URL: [potentially malicious website address removed by mod. Any further attempt to post disguised redirecting URL will also be removed]
Name Server: A.BLOCKDOS.COM
Name Server: B.BLOCKDOS.COM
Name Server: C.BLOCKDOS.COM
Name Server: D.BLOCKDOS.COM
Name Server: PRO.BL1.BLOCKDOS.COM
Name Server: PRO.BL2.BLOCKDOS.COM
Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Updated Date: 05-jan-2013
Creation Date: 18-sep-2011
Expiration Date: 18-sep-2017
>>> Last update of whois database: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:30:02 UTC <<<
So,the data shows that the site will be up soon as Roman is doing its work.
Profitable sunrise will be back so dont worry,have patience and trust on Roman.
He is migrating the server for us,for our benefit not for himself.
Give him time,he will be live again with a website.
Also,many member claim that they cant send email to support of profitablesunrise.
The reason behind is that the support emails are associated with domain names so when the site will be
alive,again you will be able to send emails to support.
Another thing that prove that they are moving server is that SEARCH ON GOOGLE About 504 Gateway Time-out
you can find
that this error arises only due to server problem,its not due to anyother problem.
So dont panic,everything will be ok.

[EagleOne]

Profitable sunrise will be alive soon as they have updated the database to a Chinese Company called
BIZCN.COM, INC.
Detail info is here
Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to InterNIC | The Internet's Network Information Center (http://www.internic.net)
for detailed information.
Domain Name: PROFITABLESUNRISE.COM
Registrar: BIZCN.COM, INC.
Whois Server: whois.bizcn.com
Referral URL: [potentially malicious website address removed by mod. Any further attempt to post disguised redirecting URL will also be removed]
Name Server: A.BLOCKDOS.COM
Name Server: B.BLOCKDOS.COM
Name Server: C.BLOCKDOS.COM
Name Server: D.BLOCKDOS.COM
Name Server: PRO.BL1.BLOCKDOS.COM
Name Server: PRO.BL2.BLOCKDOS.COM
Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Updated Date: 05-jan-2013
Creation Date: 18-sep-2011
Expiration Date: 18-sep-2017
>>> Last update of whois database: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 11:30:02 UTC <<<
So,the data shows that the site will be up soon as Roman is doing its work.
Profitable sunrise will be back so dont worry,have patience and trust on Roman.
He is migrating the server for us,for our benefit not for himself.
Give him time,he will be live again with a website.
Also,many member claim that they cant send email to support of profitablesunrise.
The reason behind is that the support emails are associated with domain names so when the site will be
alive,again you will be able to send emails to support.
Another thing that prove that they are moving server is that SEARCH ON GOOGLE About 504 Gateway Time-out
you can find
that this error arises only due to server problem,its not due to anyother problem.
So dont panic,everything will be ok.

No such thing is happening. PS has always been hosted by Bizcn.com, and the update is when anyone accessed the whois site. Roman is gone and so is your money. It is not coming back no matter what anyone of the cheerleaders says. It is all designed to keep the masses from going to the authorities and filing claims, and naming them as their upline that got them into PS. It is nothing more than CYA for the major players in this Ponzi.

[okosh]

Profitable sunrise will be alive soon

So will the Easter Bunny who will pay me my Easter eggs :chickendance:

[EagleOne]

Well since the outage of being able to access RS, there have been a couple more states who have issued an alert or warning about PS, and Alabama changed from an alert to a full cease and desist order.

It is now being said that Roman will bring the website backup on the "new servers" this coming Monday. Originally they said noon on Friday, but now that has changed to Monday if you can believe anything coming out of the mouths of the people who are supposed to be in the know.

Speaking of people in the know, there was this conference call today for people in Nanci Jo Frazer's group. I was told that I received honorable mention from Nanci Jo on the call, but Jim Paris was the brunt of the comments. If the information I received is true, then I want to publicly thank Nanci Jo for giving out our website name, telling about our Visa Card program, and mentioning I had a book, but darn did not give out the title, but I'm sure if she had it would have exposed her comments about me were lies. I was also told I am a destroyer of companies. No Nanci Jo, I am a destroyer of Ponzi's and PS is, was and always has been a Ponzi. Roman is a liar and a crook. PS is no different than all the other Ponzi's we have assited in being taken down, and we are going to take down a whole lot more.

Now what was truly interesting is that whoever dug up info from here quoted from MMB's thread where everyone here was me and anyone else was my sock puppet. Too bad they didn't check to see that MMB was a nut-case, and had anyone really read any of his posts would have known this in 2-seconds. But then that would not have fit the story line they wanted to tell. Mind you, this is what I was told. But I'm sure if it is not true, someone will come and correct me and tell me I am telling more lies about PS and Nanci Jo's group.

But for anyone who stops and thinks for just a moment, I would be wondering why Roman has not addressed any of the alerts/warnings or the cease and desist orders while the website is down and migrating to the new servers. Not ONE. After all, he is operating legally, so this would have been a slam dunk for him. Yet not one peep from him to quell al these states acting improperly against a legal company.

I guess Frabi didn't appreciate my comment about him in response to a personal attack he made as usual that was so full of lies but tried to pass off as the truth. I think there were about 5 or 6 posts that were nothing more than a personal attack against me, but it was fun exposing Frabi for the liar s/he is. You guessed it, Yippee came in and removed all of them and mine too and then closed the thread. I fully support Yippee taking this action. So I guess you can blame me for the closure of the thread for a while.

But it is good to have RS back, and continuing doing what it does best...exposing these Ponzi's, their pimps, shills and players for who the truly are.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

Every cent that members of Profitable Sunshine will have lost is real money - irrespective of whether they paid it through a payment processor or sent a bank transfer; irrespective of whether they handed over cash physically in the bank or whether they sent if over the internet. The money Roman and his insiders, including Nanci Jo, received was real money, irrespective of whether it was transferred over the internet or handed to him in cash. None of this is "virtual money" at any stage as it always has value and can be claimed by someone.

The only "virtual money" in Profitable Sunshine is the figures that represent the accumulated "profits" in the members back offices which could not be converted into cash. The money already taken was stolen from newer members.

That is why "wire fraud" is a common charge against ponzi fraud

Calling the use of the internet by criminals and their collaborators an "industry" and implying that it is not part of the real world is a joke. Go tell that to people who have lost real money to fraudsters, on or offline. The only ones laughing are the fraudsters themselves who survive because there are enough people deluding themselves that they are part of some kind of virtual industry and no real harm is done.

[Finix]

Yes, there are those, and then there are those who tell it like it is
Then there are people who come into financial jungle and start putting museum stickers on things. Those people are called naysayers.

Then there is Eddie who tells us that naysayers are "a bunch of arrogant, patronizing, hypocritical pricks who simply beg to be taken down a peg or two now and again".

Now that everything is labeled and described properly, all is well in this part of VR.

[tcob]

Then there are people who come into financial jungle and start putting museum stickers on things. Those people are called naysayers.

Then there is Eddie who tells us that naysayers are "a bunch of arrogant, patronizing, hypocritical pricks who simply beg to be taken down a peg or two now and again".

Now that everything is labeled and described properly, all is well in this part of VR.

Speaking of naysayers:

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=157947545&authType=name&authToken=tlQ9&trk=prof-sb-browse_map-name

[Finix]

I'm not interested in helping to turn jungle into a museum. I'd much rather watch it the way it is.

[NikSam]

Old NJF Conference call (Oct 24 2012) led by another NJF Member (David Steckel)

He provided a lot of incriminating evidence on himself.

MP3: https://ow-gwskha03.freeconferencecall.com/conferences/5728-17-65-67-17-65-6725-17-65-67-17-65-67119-17-65-67123-17-65-67-17-65-673813-17-65-6773.mp3

His contact details:


Dave Steckel
Skype ID: David.Steckel
Cell: 314-322-3819
Email: steckeldavid6@gmail.com

[path2prosperity]

Speaking of naysayers:

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=157947545&authType=name&authToken=tlQ9&trk=prof-sb-browse_map-name

The scum that is appearing on Linkedin is beyond comprehension. Mathew Nunn was my latest find along with the worst spammer whom I have ever encountered on Adlandpro.

[Wizzard7]

Even worse is the fact that Nanci Jo Frazer is still talking to "Roman" how stupid can Nanci actually be????

Was that a rhetorical question? :)

[Gregg]

I have seen several places where Nanci Jo has claimed to have personally talked to "Roman". If nothing else, she'll be talking to some investigators who will be wanting to know just who she was talking to. That's interesting, because she will either have to come up with a real person above her, or admit that she was just lying to the suckers to build up her perceived status.

Which one is going to be easier for her to survive?

[NikSam]

James L. Paris alerting about Profitable Sunrise on CBN News today:

Money Editor: Sunrise Scheme Targets Christians - Finance - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com (http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/finance/2013/March/Christian-Money-Editor-Pyramid-Targeting-Christians/)

[SamIam]

Even worse is the fact that Nanci Jo Frazer is still talking to "Roman" how stupid can Nanci actually be????

She's not stupid (well relatively) He's probably still paying his top people. She's getting paid. He would be stupid to not pay his top people. He is building a Team for his next scam. They will recycle the ones who are stupid to invest in Profitable Sunruse 2.0 or what ever they call it. Nancy recycled all the people she got into Zeekler and moved them onto PS to make their money back. Well, except for the really crabby complainers who didn't like losing money in Zeek.

PROFITABLE SUNRISE IS UP AND RUNNING AND STILL PAYING OUT!!!!!!!!

Well at least for Nancy and the top leaders.

If you stick with her she'll have a new opportunity for you to invest in to make your money back.
Just stay tuned :\

[PPBlog]

The [unofficial] tally of Investor Alerts or cease-and-desist orders on Profitable Sunrise in the United States and Canada now is up to 29:

As of the time of this post, here is the list:

In Canada: New Brunswick, Quebec, Ontario, British Columbia, Alberta, Manitoba.

In the United States: Kentucky, Ohio, Florida, Wisconsin, Nevada, Minnesota, California, Indiana, New Mexico, Texas, Delaware, North Dakota, South Dakota, Alabama, North Carolina, South Carolina, Alaska, Maryland, Maine, New Jersey, Louisiana, Tennessee, Oregon.

PPBlog

[PPBlog]

The [unofficial] tally of Investor Alerts or cease-and-desist orders on Profitable Sunrise in the United States and Canada now is up to 29:

As of the time of this post, here is the list:

In Canada: New Brunswick, Quebec, Ontario, British Columbia, Alberta, Manitoba.

In the United States: Kentucky, Ohio, Florida, Wisconsin, Nevada, Minnesota, California, Indiana, New Mexico, Texas, Delaware, North Dakota, South Dakota, Alabama, North Carolina, South Carolina, Alaska, Maryland, Maine, New Jersey, Louisiana, Tennessee, Oregon.

PPBlog

Make that 30: Missouri added minutes ago.

In Canada: New Brunswick, Quebec, Ontario, British Columbia, Alberta, Manitoba.

In the United States: Kentucky, Ohio, Florida, Wisconsin, Nevada, Minnesota, California, Indiana, New Mexico, Texas, Delaware, North Dakota, South Dakota, Alabama, North Carolina, South Carolina, Alaska, Maryland, Maine, New Jersey, Louisiana, Tennessee, Oregon, MISSOURI.

PPBlog

[Gregg]

Was Nanci Jo using NJF or FUMI to promote Zeek or is that just a guess?

[intheknow]

Was Nanci Jo using NJF or FUMI to promote Zeek or is that just a guess?

not sure but she has 2 facebook pages on on this one : https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100003779165982&fref=ts

here is what she said on Aug 17, 2012:

NEWS FROM NANCI...

NOTICE: This Zeek is going through a BUSINESS AUDIT INQUIRY and will be offline for a few days. You can take a break from posting and enjoy the weekend.

I hope you had a great week! Just want to give you a quick message that the Zeek Website will be offline for a North Carolina state auditing..

I AM HAPPY TO REPORT THAT...

Out of several millions of people who work with Zeek Rewards everyday... they have had ONLY EIGHT COMPLAINTS & 23 PEOPLE WHO INQUIRED ABOUT THEM through the State of north Carolina!! That is awesome!!

The State did not have any information on file about Zeek and therefore (just as with any business) has requested a type of "audit" to be able to better inform the public and make sure Zeek is running a compliant operation.

They have been presented with a list of questions they need to answer so that the State office can review them and better inform the public. Like in most business audits where no information is yet presented... will require that the business be closed to the public during this period. Usually there is a list of questions list to be answered. When the answers are turned in and then they will be reviewed for approval. This is great for us as we will be able to share that they have been reviewed & approved for their business practices.

ALL companies having such rapid growth will cause interest and curiosity about why they are growing so fast. This is normal business.

Zeek has the top three mlm law firms on retainer to make sure they are on top of their game at all times. That is a big reason why I decided to go with them as I knew one day somebody would become curious as to their huge success. PS Some of the inquiries were just parents making sure that Zeek was okay for their kids to participate! (lol)

We all have been sooo blessed and highly favored to have this opportunity to profit share with a company that is exploding.

I will keep you posted. oh Great news... Zeek is about to provide us with a much better Money Transport System for buying bids and getting paid. I would not be surprised if they might be launching a Zeek Debit Card. That would be awesome.

[Merchant of Truth]

Breaking News!

New Profitable Sunrise Training Video!

That's how they do it...now I am clear



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd-oPdi-9Zs

:watching_you::watching_you:

[Finix]

Breaking News!
Old news, tcob already posted the link to this video awhile back.

BTW, there were 22 private groups in PS altogether. NJF was only one of them, albeit the largest.

[EagleOne]

Was Nanci Jo using NJF or FUMI to promote Zeek or is that just a guess?

She was using NJF. FUMI is just the entry to become a member of NJF. But she was promoting PS on both sites before she did her sanitizing of her websites.

[Gregg]

not sure but she has 2 facebook pages on on this one : https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100003779165982&fref=ts

here is what she said on Aug 17, 2012:

NEWS FROM NANCI...

NOTICE: This Zeek is going through a BUSINESS AUDIT INQUIRY and will be offline for a few days. You can take a break from posting and enjoy the weekend.

I hope you had a great week! Just want to give you a quick message that the Zeek Website will be offline for a North Carolina state auditing..

I AM HAPPY TO REPORT THAT...

Out of several millions of people who work with Zeek Rewards everyday... they have had ONLY EIGHT COMPLAINTS & 23 PEOPLE WHO INQUIRED ABOUT THEM through the State of north Carolina!! That is awesome!!

The State did not have any information on file about Zeek and therefore (just as with any business) has requested a type of "audit" to be able to better inform the public and make sure Zeek is running a compliant operation.

They have been presented with a list of questions they need to answer so that the State office can review them and better inform the public. Like in most business audits where no information is yet presented... will require that the business be closed to the public during this period. Usually there is a list of questions list to be answered. When the answers are turned in and then they will be reviewed for approval. This is great for us as we will be able to share that they have been reviewed & approved for their business practices.

ALL companies having such rapid growth will cause interest and curiosity about why they are growing so fast. This is normal business.

Zeek has the top three mlm law firms on retainer to make sure they are on top of their game at all times. That is a big reason why I decided to go with them as I knew one day somebody would become curious as to their huge success. PS Some of the inquiries were just parents making sure that Zeek was okay for their kids to participate! (lol)

We all have been sooo blessed and highly favored to have this opportunity to profit share with a company that is exploding.

I will keep you posted. oh Great news... Zeek is about to provide us with a much better Money Transport System for buying bids and getting paid. I would not be surprised if they might be launching a Zeek Debit Card. That would be awesome.

Your link now resolves to her CURRENT facebook page, created on August 19, 2012. It took me a minute to figure it out, but it looks like her OLD facebook page was so, mmmm, incriminating? that she just rejoined under a new e-mail and thought she had effectively wiped her old one. Someone tell her that the internet never forgets. I don't have the time right now but I'm wondering if she also had a video library about Zeek comparable to the one she built up for "Pro-Sun" that she also tried to expunge.

The more I learn about this pseudo-christian ref whore the more I don't like her. And she's in Ohio, where I have a people who know people etc.... start saving up for Prison Nanci Jo, this isn't going to end well for you.

[Gregg]

Well, scratch that, I made a mistake in her join date, it was April, not August. Still, I do wonder how much sanitizing she did when Zeek collapsed and if she got a clawback letter from the receiver.

[Gregg]

Well, a little digging and checking later, as someone else has already said: the EIN I posted for FUMI actually belongs to United Senior Services of Springfield and Clark County, Ohio, Inc. If anyone wants to donate to a REAL charity, their website is United Senior Services (http://www.elderlyunited.org/) You can also find there contact information to call and let them know Nanci Jo is pimping her scam with their EIN which if nothing else could come back to haunt them on their legitimate tax returns (in IRS records it will show as a donation to them that they didn't report, and could cause them to be audited)
If you do call, and I encourage you to, please take the time to give them a donation, if just $5 or so, I hope they raise 15 kinds of hell about it but taking a bunch of calls isn't their mission and the least we can do is help them out a little for their time. Just a thought.
I also cannot find where I got that EIN from in the first place, if anyone can dig it up on wayback or something I'd appreciate it, I know I got it from one of the NJF websites, or the FUMI ones, and I'm pretty sure the reason I can't find it now is that it's been taken down.
I also plan on spending a day bending the ears of some people I know in Ohio government, I know quite a few through connections I've made living here my whole life and from school. I got peeps, count on it, or ask Brad H whatever his name was.....

I admit it, I'm not a nice person, but this one is local and has about 15 of the nasty things that just piss me off, so I'm gonna devote a little effort to making Nanci Jo a very unhappy camper, hopefully at a prison camp.... sorry, but ripping people off with religion and cheating on your taxes, while falsifying yourself as a charity is just the "piss me off trifecta" and I just have to do it.

And to think, I really wasn't too interested in this one in the beginning.....

[Gregg]

and I claim trademark protection on the phrase "piss me off trifecta" that's just clever, iddinit?

[Gregg]

3413

For the love of Bob, can you believe this silly dingbat STILL has this up on the "non profit" website?

[EagleOne]

According to those on tonight's conference call, this was announced, and I quote from a post at MMG:

FACEBOOK UPDATE OF PS :

*** Tonights Call High-Lights =) ***
Here are my notes for the same call... Hope this helps !
Call by Mike Artis and Tony

Conference call Summary:

We are ALL GOOD!!!

This is based on several calls within the last 24 hours with people I've spoken to... whom spoke with Roman.

We are about to go back up Are servers are up... all 6 main servers are working...

New website will be similar and all our accounts will be with in new site.

Easter gift is good ! Best guess is some time this weekend by Sunday night... Before Monday compounding starts.

We will be called a Private International Business Community, with a new definition as to how we represent ourself.

Servers are in two very safe places to address security issues Hong Kong is the safest places to be!

Chatter about negative info on us is wrong... We haven't done anything wrong and we are changing to comply.

Roman is making it better, give him credit...

Lots of rumors are impacting a really good people There are no facts or evidence we are not doing anything wrong. We are not selling securities. We are a group of individuals with strong values and purpose. We are not going to be pushed around or bullied by media Gurus.

Expect more restrictions with in company...

These corrections that are currently taking place have already been in the works, prior to the issues at hand.

Let's look forward to this weekend and the new web-site. Next weeks Confrence call, we can compare notes of the new system. Again, all is good !

Profitable Sunrise is not falling apart... Or taken down...

Look forward to a promising future

Bank wire will be the only way to transfer funds... We'll see when sight is back up about E currency options.

Where are our funds? Funds are in loans and how the interest is paid out.

What about Easter Gift?
Easter Gift will be in available balance.

They are also working on E-check system

Interest will be paid for all banking days we were off line.

May be changing name... because no advertising allowed and to avoid all adds and banners that are currently out there already.

Empty accounts may be gone...
Won't know until site is back up.

Wonder what the excuse will be when none of this happens?

[perthlady]

How frustrating it is trying to reason with people in this scheme! In a discussion with the person who tried pitching it to me a few weeks ago, they told me that the website would be back up in 36 - 48 hours. Then when that didn't happen, they said it was 36 - 48 BUSINESS hours and would be back up lunchtime today. Site still down. Now it's going to be Monday. My husband upset this person by saying well obviously they chose their target group wisely, Christianity : 2000 years of "any day now".

[littleroundman]

sorry, but ripping people off with religion and cheating on your taxes, while falsifying yourself as a charity is just the "piss me off trifecta" and I just have to do it.

Unfortunately for the apparent large amount of Christian Profitable Sunrise victims, they're about to find out HYIP ponzi fraudsters consider Christians make BETTER victims than the general population.

* Christians are generally more trusting

* Christians are DEFINITELY more susceptible to Christianity based affinity fraud.

* By definition, Christians are far more likely to "turn the other cheek" than they are to retaliate.

* Christians are far less likely to report their losses to any of the authorities, for fear of putting their faith under the spotlight of being publicly ridiculed.

* Post HYIP ponzi collapse, Christians find themselves in a double bind.

Just where did those prayers go ??
Was their God really involved ??
If they admit it was all a fraud, does that mean their God is also a fraud ??
For many, their entire core belief system has been challenged.

The fact self proclaimed "Christian luminaries" of the Nanci Jo Frazer type is involved leads to even more questioning of the whole Christian ethos by which they live.

As has often been said, there's a whole lot more damage caused by HYIP ponzi fraud than "just" monetary loss.

[Finix]

If they ever were in doubt, Jesus didn't bother himself with money matters and recommended they don't either.

For those who haven't noticed the backdrop on PS at the earlier time - it was a statue of Christ the Redeemer in Rio.

[Finix]

Christians are generally more trusting
How would you know? You are an atheist. It's a stereotype created by people who didn't bother reading the bible. Jesus recommended for his followers to be "wise as serpents".