Profitable Sunrise HYIP - Has anybody dug through it yet?

[Fendaril]

I want to go on record saying working a 'real job' sucks worse than having to wait to withdraw my money from PS.

[Finix]

If you bored why don't you go play with your uncle at WL forum :whip_the_worker:
Why don't you? He's your toy, not mine. Or you are his, rather.

[Finix]

I want to go on record saying working a 'real job' sucks worse than having to wait to withdraw my money from PS.
It depends on what your job is. If you are doing what you like, it's not so bad. If you hate it, then of course. In any case, both are needed for proper balance in life. Some work and some play.

[Fendaril]

It depends on what your job is. If you are doing what you like, it's not so bad. If you hate it, then of course. In any case, both are needed for proper balance in life. Some work and some play.

Is the exchanger business able to build you a sustainable residual income stream?

[Finix]

Is the exchanger business able to build you a sustainable residual income stream?
It's sustainable because it taxes an existing money flow. You charge a small percentage on each transaction.

[Finix]

The costs of running it are small, hosting fees for a website, the rest is your labor.

[baylee]

I have high hopes for some in this thread and it could be interesting at end game time if the Authorities step in.

[Finix]

I have high hopes for some in this thread and it could be interesting at end game time if the Authorities step in.
The chance of them stepping in is insignificant. The chance of them ever finding Roman is almost nil. It's the probabilities game.

[ProfHenryHiggins]

Excuse me, I didn't mean to say just HYIPs. He'd have to get a real job if scams didn't exist, better?

Better tell God... think about all of the natural creatures that use deception as part of their lives.

[Finix]

Better tell God... think about all of the natural creatures that use deception as part of their lives.
Are you drunk? You usually make sense. What does it have to do with my post?

[Finix]

Let me put this thang back on track for ya. Is PS a ponzi? No one knows for a fact until they see the records. Is it likely to be a ponzi? Yep. Why? Because the chance of it to be anything else is almost zero.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

Offshore is good for offshore. Share the wealth a bit with poor countries, it's really is not that much that flows through the industry.

Once and for all, Profitable Sunshine and other HYIPs are not an INDUSTRY. They are illegal money games. Industries generate wealth and increase a countries gross national product, they dont simply recycle money through illegal pyramid structures. HYIPs and other money games form part of a subculture of financial fraud and the monies circulating within the subculture include money laundering, and other criminal activities. Estimates of the money circulating in the financial fraud arena are in the billions of dollars and that is not pocket change.

Anyone who claims to be part of "the industry" should know all that stuff too. And dont forget legal "easy money" also has high risks attached, as any professional licensed Forex trader or other high risk investor will tell you, but the difference is that they dont pretend that it doesn't.

[Finix]

Once and for all, Profitable Sunshine and other HYIPs are not an INDUSTRY.
Please don't play stupid. Or are you having trouble with reading? The HYIPs by themselves are not an industry. They are a part of it. You are a part as well. As are MLMs, payment processors, forums, exchangers, monitors, Paid-to-do-whatever, etc.

[Finix]

Hosts, web desingers, programmers, re-sellers of software, the list goes on.

[ribshaw]

HYIP Monitor GoldPoll - The Best HYIP Rating. The Fairest High Yield Investment Programs Monitoring Service. (http://www.goldpoll.com/)
has profitable sunrise (NOT PAYING)


Popular HYIP has Profitable Sunrise on their scam list. I tried to bury down for details but was not able to locate anything.

PopularHYIP Scam List (http://popularhyip.com/latestscams.html)

[wserra]

The HYIPs by themselves are not an industry. They are a part of it. You are a part as well. As are MLMs, payment processors, forums, exchangers, monitors, Paid-to-do-whatever, etc. . . . Hosts, web desingers, programmers, re-sellers of software, the list goes on.

Bank robbers themselves are not an industry. But they're a part of the bank robbery industry. As a bank customer, you are a part as well. As are mask makers, getaway drivers, security guards, cops, FBI agents, fences, money launderers, lockpicks, safecrackers, explosives guys, the list goes on.

It makes the silly so much easier to prove when you can make up your own definitions, don't you agree?
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master -- that's all."Through the Looking Glass, chapter 6.

[Finix]

Bank robbers themselves are not an industry. But they're a part of the bank robbery industry. As a bank customer, you are a part as well. As are mask makers, getaway drivers, security guards, cops, FBI agents, fences, money launderers, lockpicks, safecrackers, explosives guys, the list goes on.
You mean it as a sarcasm, but it's actually the truth. Except for the part where online trolls are just customers. They are a bit more than that.

[Finix]

You just don't like the fact that shadow economies are still economies. You don't have to like to accept it.

[Finix]

BTW, the real world phenomenon that comes the closest to capture the meaning of trolling is vigilantism.

[Finix]

As usual, none of this has to do with PS per ce. It's just an online medium for moving money from one set of people to another. It's voluntary, does not involve force or intimidation, all the participants are more than willing to exchange their money for a prospect of making more money. You are trying to interrupt the natural flow, that's why you are seeing so much resistance on HYIP forums.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

As usual, none of this has to do with PS per ce. It's just an online medium for moving money from one set of people to another. It's voluntary, does not involve force or intimidation, all the participants are more than willing to exchange their money for a prospect of making more money. You are trying to interrupt the natural flow, that's why you are seeing so much resistance on HYIP forums.

By your definition, dealing in stolen goods is an offline medium of trading. Only problem is that it is totally illegal. But as far as PS or any other HYIP is concerned it is based on deception and sometimes outright lies. Participants may be willing to join, but some do so because they have been told lies - i.e. defrauded and that is also illegal. The fact that this illegal money game show also supports payment processors who dont care where the money comes from or where it goes, the fact that there are some hosting services who are happy to host them, the fact that there are other services who also choose to support them, doesnt make it anywhere close to an industry. All these services are used by legitimate trade which, thankfully, supports the majority of those who provide online services. The resistance IMHO comes from those who do not wish to channel their energies into earning a living by providing legitimate services to legitimate business, on or off line, but prefer to make a fast buck and take their chances with losses or the law.

Let's see - like many others who use the internet, I have a business, I have a website, I have a hosting service, I advertise, I use forums. If the HYIP money game show was closed down tomorrow, it wouldnt affect our businesses one iota or leave us with nowhere to advertise as we wouldn't for one second dream of advertising in HYIP boards etc. None of our service providers would be affected one iota.

However of the HYIP money game show closed down, it would mean that we dont have to spend our spare time explaining for the nth time to a friend or acquaintance that joining one of these schemes will not solve their financial problems, but may well cause them even more heartache. As no one posting here receives a cent for their work informing or warning people about HYIPs, I dont quite see how you consider us part of any industry. My guess is that most of us would rather do something else with our spare time, including in some cases, just retire properly.

Your "industry" does not run on legitimate lines as a shadow economy - it's whole basis is fraud. HYIPs do not thrive on the insider players, they thrive because of the new money coming in from new members who are conned into believing they are investing in something very different. If you think that an elderly person who is talked into investing their retirement fund in a HYIP by their local pastor does so willingly knowing the risks and the illegality, you are living in a very strange world. The Alice in Wonderland quote is appropriate.

PS is, in that sense, purely anecdotal - it's just one more shady little scheme designed to make dishonest people money at the expense of the uninformed. which the discussion was about until it became derailed by a justification of the subculture in which it functions.

[Finix]

By your definition, dealing in stolen goods is an offline medium of trading.
If you look at it objectively, that's exactly what it is.


Only problem is that it is totally illegal.
Of course it is, but I'm not interested in describing it from the perspective of criminal justice.

[Finix]

If you think that an elderly person who is talked into investing their retirement fund in a HYIP by their local pastor does so willingly knowing the risks and the illegality, you are living in a very strange world.
I'm not talking about offline fraud. It's a very different thing than online HYIPs. In order to participate in online games, you have to read the website TOS, you have to get your money transferred into the payment systems they accept, etc.

In your example, it's a pastor who is a fraudster, what do our little games have to do with his greedy fake ass wanting to scam his flock?

[Finix]

it's just one more shady little scheme designed to make dishonest people money at the expense of the uninformed
You said it. Little scheme. Don't blow it out of proportion. There are no people chucking their retirement funds into it. If there are, oh well, can't fix the stupid.

[Finix]

However of the HYIP money game show closed down, it would mean that we dont have to spend our spare time explaining for the nth time to a friend or acquaintance that joining one of these schemes will not solve their financial problems, but may well cause them even more heartache.
We must live on different planets. I don't know any people who'd fall for this BS. Maybe it has something to do with the people you know and not the HYIPs?

[Finix]

justification of the subculture in which it functions.
It's not a justification, it's an objective description. You are the one putting judgement values on it. I just look at the money flow.

[Finix]

Let's see - like many others who use the internet, I have a business, I have a website, I have a hosting service, I advertise, I use forums. If the HYIP money game show was closed down tomorrow, it wouldnt affect our businesses one iota or leave us with nowhere to advertise as we wouldn't for one second dream of advertising in HYIP boards etc. None of our service providers would be affected one iota.
And HYIPs wouldn't be affected if your side of the internet wouldn't exist. You don't own the internet, you are just sharing it with other people. Yet you are trying to dictate how others should conduct their business.

Do HYIPers come to your website and tell you how to run it?

[Fendaril]

In the defense on many people who participated in PS, they are not evil people. Very few of them are truly evil. They just got hooked on making money illegitimately. I started with profit clicking thinking it was going to last forever, since it was my first introduction in the HYIP phenomenon, then it started to slow down. I then contacted my original referrer via e-mail and after my fears were allayed he told me that PS was the next best thing after profit clicking, and would last for a very long time. I signed up and deposited $80, and have been making a steady return since.

I than found out that PS was not the only one of its kind and there are many other programs that promise to do the same thing. Just today I found out that the owner of JustBeenPaid and profit clicking is setting up yet another HYIP program known as click paid. Since I got a taste of PS I now am really tempted to do click paid, since I want to feel the same chemical induced feeling of reward. It is a learnt craving that gets stronger the more money you make. I am definantely not a person without a conscience, just someone who has a craving for something that is looked down upon by the law.

[Finix]

In the defense on many people who participated in PS, they are not evil people. Very few of them are truly evil.
Very few people are truly evil, period. If you listen to RS members, everyone who'd every gambled a penny in money games is an arch-criminal with connections to the underworld.


I than found out that PS was not the only one of its kind and there are many other programs that promise to do the same thing. Just today I found out that the owner of JustBeenPaid and profit clicking is setting up yet another HYIP program known as click paid. Since I got a taste of PS I now am really tempted to do click paid, since I want to feel the same chemical induced feeling of reward. It is a learnt craving that gets stronger the more money you make. I am definantely not a person without a conscience, just someone who wants to take a shortcut.
We all look for shortcuts, it's human nature. Try to take care to not get too addicted to easy money, and you'll be ok.

[EagleOne]

And HYIPs wouldn't be affected if your side of the internet wouldn't exist. You don't own the internet, you are just sharing it with other people. Yet you are trying to dictate how others should conduct their business.

Do HYIPers come to your website and tell you how to run it?

Oh please. There is NO business. It is STEALING, just organized STEALING. They are not innocent money games. This is causing financial ruin to people, local/county/state and national economies. Just because you believe it is OK to steal from others, it is still morally wrong besides being illegal.

The day the pimps, shills and players have to pay for playing will be the day these end. I have a feeling it won't be long until those days are upon us, and it can't happen fast enough for me.

[Finix]

This is causing financial ruin to people, local/county/state and national economies.
You are confusing online and offline again. People like Madoff are causing those things. With the full knowledge of agencies that claim to be in place to protect people. PS is not causing any of this.

[wserra]

One post from Lil Ol' Radical Me and one from, well, plain ol' me bring forth ten posts from Finix. Anyone else have a mental picture of Finix hunched over the keyboard, snorting, eyes wide, hair on fire, pounding the keys and yelling "And furthermore! And furthermore! And furthermore!"

Trolling - it's an industry, I tell ya.

[Finix]

One post from Lil Ol' Radical Me and one from, well, plain ol' me brings forth ten posts from Finix.
Give me a break, I've already postcountbuilt to a senior scambuster :P

[path2prosperity]

One post from Lil Ol' Radical Me and one from, well, plain ol' me bring forth ten posts from Finix. Anyone else have a mental picture of Finix hunched over the keyboard, snorting, eyes wide, hair on fire, pounding the keys and yelling "And furthermore! And furthermore! And furthermore!"



Unfortunately Finix showed great potential. Sad that she has not chosen to develop her talents in a sensible direction.

[Finix]

But you are right, I've wasted too much of my time on play. Time to go back to work and make some money.

[path2prosperity]

Let's see - like many others who use the internet, I have a business, I have a website, I have a hosting service, I advertise, I use forums. If the HYIP money game show was closed down tomorrow, it wouldnt affect our businesses one iota or leave us with nowhere to advertise as we wouldn't for one second dream of advertising in HYIP boards etc. None of our service providers would be affected one iota.


Me too. I did use ponzi boards like TalkGold, MMG, The Safelist and Adlandpro when it was possible to meet fellow business people but those days are long gone.

[Finix]

Me too. I did use ponzi boards like TalkGold, MMG, The Safelist and Adlandpro when it was possible to meet fellow business people but those days are long gone.
Yet you can't stop talking about those forums. They must have made a lasting impression on you.

[Finix]

Here is a little something for y'all to chew on. TG is a part of VFS. VFS is ran by a former ShadowCrew member. Let the conspiracy theories fly wild.

[EagleOne]

You are confusing online and offline again. People like Madoff are causing those things. With the full knowledge of agencies that claim to be in place to protect people. PS is not causing any of this.

When Roman runs with the money and he will unless the feds shut him down first, I would love for you to sit in my office and answer the phone when one of these major Ponzi's goes down. Then tell me they are just innocent money games.

But let's put some real statistics out there for you. In 2011, Ponzi's and their form of cyber-crime stole almost $1 Trillion Dollars just in Europe alone. Worldwide it was close to $3 Trillion Dollars. Just innocent little money games. More money in 2011 was stolen in cyber-crime than all the cocaine, heroin and marijuana trafficing COMBINED. Just innocent little money games. These were the statistics provided by the President of Interpol. And I haven't even touched the offline Ponzi's.

Since PS claims it is blessed by God and Roman is a Christian, in 2011 cyber-crime stole $35 Billion Dollars wordwide from the Christian community. Just innocent little money games.

Yeah right.

[Finix]

[B][COLOR="#0000CD"]When Roman runs with the money and he will unless the feds shut him down first, I would love for you to sit in my office and answer the phone when one fo these major Ponzi's go down.
Yeah, let me talk to them. I'll set those idiots straight. They'll never look for easy money again after I'm through with them.

[path2prosperity]

Yet you can't stop talking about those forums. They must have made a lasting impression on you.

They certainly did! I met people like LRM, okosh, scratchy, Eagle and others whom I consider to be first rate scam busters.

[Finix]

They certainly did! I met people like LRM, okosh, scratchy Eagle and others whom I consider to be first rate scam busters.
Those are BSers. The real scambusters are from the Secret Service.

[rjww]

PS has now stopped paying to PerfectMoney account holders....ie me ! I guess Rip-off Roman is stemming the out flow,as the message on the withdrawal denial page is that they are only paying Eco-pay,and STP....Luckily I actually made a total overall profit, a whopping $2.64....not even a buck a month !

[Finix]

Luckily I actually made a total overall profit, a whopping $2.64....not even a buck a month !
Criminal! Thief! The destroyer of national economies!

[Finix]

Unfortunately Finix showed great potential. Sad that she has not chosen to develop her talents in a sensible direction.
I don't need directions from the nutcases on the internet. I have plenty of sensible directions offline.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

I'm not talking about offline fraud. It's a very different thing than online HYIPs. In order to participate in online games, you have to read the website TOS, you have to get your money transferred into the payment systems they accept, etc.

In your example, it's a pastor who is a fraudster, what do our little games have to do with his greedy fake ass wanting to scam his flock?

A great deal - see AdSurfDaily, CEP. ZeekRewards, Profitable Sunshine and a list as long as your arm of HYIP frauds promoted on the internet. Y'know, an online ponzi pimps dream is when one of his/her downline takes the scheme to town. (and dont forget, according to Roman and his followers, God is on their side)

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

We must live on different planets. I don't know any people who'd fall for this BS. Maybe it has something to do with the people you know and not the HYIPs?

Well then, aren't those people the ponzi scammers dream? Did you ever follow the enormous thread on Banners Broker? Did you ever follow the AdSurfDaily racket with its rallies and people who had the misfortune to be associated with the scammers and their downlines in real life who got sucked into the con by people they trust. Dont you know anyone who doesn't live on the internet and is unaware that there is a mini world out there of people who have moved onto the internet to defraud people, because it is easier than looking them in the eye? Haven't you ever heard of Affinity Fraud? Do you really believe that the HYIP "industry" survives on the participation of a bunch of cynical people who know only too well what they are betting on?

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

In the defense on many people who participated in PS, they are not evil people. Very few of them are truly evil. They just got hooked on making money illegitimately. I started with profit clicking thinking it was going to last forever, since it was my first introduction in the HYIP phenomenon, then it started to slow down. I then contacted my original referrer via e-mail and after my fears were allayed he told me that PS was the next best thing after profit clicking, and would last for a very long time. I signed up and deposited $80, and have been making a steady return since.

I than found out that PS was not the only one of its kind and there are many other programs that promise to do the same thing. Just today I found out that the owner of JustBeenPaid and profit clicking is setting up yet another HYIP program known as click paid. Since I got a taste of PS I now am really tempted to do click paid, since I want to feel the same chemical induced feeling of reward. It is a learnt craving that gets stronger the more money you make. I am definantely not a person without a conscience, just someone who has a craving for something that is looked down upon by the law.

Sorry chum, you now also have to live with the reality that your "craving" means that every cent you "earn" comes out of the pocket of someone else who joined the money game after you. Within that group are people who Finix seems to know who know that they are gamblers but that there are also a bunch of people who believe every word that their uplines tell them - including that their money is safe and that it is legal.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

And HYIPs wouldn't be affected if your side of the internet wouldn't exist. You don't own the internet, you are just sharing it with other people. Yet you are trying to dictate how others should conduct their business.

Do HYIPers come to your website and tell you how to run it?

It's not an issue - I dont have to lie to my customers to get their trade. What they see is exactly what they get. If it isnt - they get their money back. Fortunately the HYIP games are only a tiny minority of disreputable sites in the greater scheme of internet trade. (which doesnt help the people they defraud)

[Finix]

All jokes aside, if I heard a pastor pimping an investment scheme, I'd run away from that church. It's a clear indication the pastor is on the side of the devil.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

You are confusing online and offline again. People like Madoff are causing those things. With the full knowledge of agencies that claim to be in place to protect people. PS is not causing any of this.


Yawn. At the risk of repeating myself, try CEP, 12 Daily Pro, Zeek Rewards, P2P, EMG, AVG, the one they sold to deaf people, and a long list of etceteras, including ALL the schemes that have been prosecuted- Wake up and smell the roses!

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

One post from Lil Ol' Radical Me and one from, well, plain ol' me bring forth ten posts from Finix. Anyone else have a mental picture of Finix hunched over the keyboard, snorting, eyes wide, hair on fire, pounding the keys and yelling "And furthermore! And furthermore! And furthermore!"

Trolling - it's an industry, I tell ya.

Did I get to 10 replies yet? If it wasn't so sad to see someone who is so seduced by the whole rotten HYIP mess, I would be having fun. (Well maybe I am anyway. lol)

[Finix]

Yawn. At the risk of repeating myself, try CEP, 12 Daily Pro, Zeek Rewards, P2P, EMG, AVG, the one they sold to deaf people, and a long list of etceteras, including ALL the schemes that have been prosecuted- Wake up and smell the roses!
None of those caused any damage to national economies either. They caused damage to a few people who wanted something for nothing, but it happens all the time in all areas of life.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

Me too. I did use ponzi boards like TalkGold, MMG, The Safelist and Adlandpro when it was possible to meet fellow business people but those days are long gone.

Business people on TG, MMG and dont forget ASA???? Games players PULEEZE!! (that's american for "give me a break!)

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

All jokes aside, if I heard a pastor pimping an investment scheme, I'd run away from that church. It's a clear indication the pastor is on the side of the devil.

If you haven't heard of this, you must be paying VERY LITTLE ATTENTION to the stuff on the internet. Roman is not the first fraudster who uses God to pimp his scheme.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

None of those caused any damage to national economies either. They caused damage to a few people who wanted something for nothing, but it happens all the time in all areas of life.

As has already been pointed out to you, you clearly have done very little research into the economic impact of these schemes - on or offline - because you are WAY OFF in your assessment by several billions.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

Bingo - I passed the 10. Nite Finix - I'll leave you to do some real research into the consequences of online HYIP fraud. It wont take you long - it's all there on the internet.

[Finix]

If you haven't heard of this, you must be paying VERY LITTLE ATTENTION to the stuff on the internet. Roman is not the first fraudster who uses God to pimp his scheme.
The pastor was from your offline example. Not talking about Roman, he is just an internet character. Anyone can claim anything they like on the internet.

[Finix]

Even if they did cause damage, it changes nothing in the actual money flow. Neither does the amount. Try to stop it all you like, it will continue to flow in this direction. There is no force in the world that can stop people from willingly parting with their money.

[Finix]

I'll leave you to do some real research into the consequences of online HYIP fraud.
I have no interest in this aspect whatsoever. I'll leave this stuff to you and keep working on learning about the industry parts.

[Fendaril]

As has already been pointed out to you, you clearly have done very little research into the economic impact of these schemes - on or offline - because you are WAY OFF in your assessment by several billions.

Why do you spend so much time exposing ponzi schemes and calling out shills?

[path2prosperity]

Very few people are truly evil, period. If you listen to RS members, everyone who'd every gambled a penny in money games is an arch-criminal with connections to the underworld.

Rubbish. A lot of us played autosurfs or other types of betting before joining forums where people spoke out against the ones where members were encouraged to invest big bucks on what the owners called INVESTMENTS. TalkGold had a pool of naysayers who named and shamed the scum owners like Bob Krimm, Nickers Smirnow and DrMara.

Once scum like those mentioned above along with the Adlandpro con artists like Jill Bachman and Maurice Bernier entered the arena, it became obvious that it was no longer a game and time to quit.

[Nourjan]

Why do you spend so much time exposing ponzi schemes and calling out shills?


Different reason for different people, I suppose. Unlike the scammers however, none of these "naysayers"(I think the term "truthsayers"is more .... appropriate) are doing it to make money.

[path2prosperity]

Business people on TG, MMG and dont forget ASA???? Games players PULEEZE!! (that's american for "give me a break!)

Yes I posted on those forums. I met more people who tried to run businesses or played autosurfs there than on Adlandpro. We were both posters on Adlandpro and we both run legal businesses. Finix talked more sense on TG than Jill Bachman ever did on Adlandpro. All these forums taught us to find people with whom we could relate. You and I learned a lot from ponzi promoting boards.

Finix is loosing or has lost all credibility now. Bachman news? You followed her more closely than I did. At least Finix does not claim to understand quantum mechanics or zero point enegy like the Bachman and Carol Salisbury duo from Adlandpro. An Adlandpro member started this thread. MOTIVES UNKNOWN.

Message from Beyond The Grave? (http://tools4u.homestead.com/SignaturePage.html)

[EagleOne]

Now this is interesting. Some of Nanci Jo Frazer's videos have now been removed by the owner. Does this mean that God is no longer blessing PS? You know with her being a pastor and all. Also her websites seem to have also had a text conversion of late. Now you don't suppose the IRS came a call'in and asked some embarrassing questions especially after Gregg and I filed a complaint with them do you?

[okosh]

Let me put this thang back on track for ya. Is PS a ponzi? No one knows for a fact until they see the records. Is it likely to be a ponzi? Yep. Why? Because the chance of it to be anything else is almost zero.

Finix did you bump your head or you just trolling again??....

[okosh]

One post from Lil Ol' Radical Me and one from, well, plain ol' me bring forth ten posts from Finix. Anyone else have a mental picture of Finix hunched over the keyboard, snorting, eyes wide, hair on fire, pounding the keys and yelling "And furthermore! And furthermore! And furthermore!"

Trolling - it's an industry, I tell ya.

I have a real pic :RpS_wink:

[okosh]

Here is a little something for y'all to chew on. TG is a part of VFS. VFS is ran by a former ShadowCrew member. Let the conspiracy theories fly wild.

And TG and MMG are same owners....So what's your point??...

[Finix]

Finix did you bump your head or you just trolling again??....
No, I'm offering a different perspective on the industry. You look at it from the perspective of criminal justice. I look at it as a collection of parts that work together so that I can program the simulation.

[perthlady]

Now this is interesting. Some of Nanci Jo Frazer's videos have now been removed by the owner. Does this mean that God is no longer blessing PS? You know with her being a pastor and all. Also her websites seem to have also had a text conversion of late. Now you don't suppose the IRS came a call'in and asked some embarrassing questions especially after Gregg and I filed a complaint with them do you?

Removed from Youtube? I noticed PS members have been posting comments on promotional youtube videos, stating they shouldn't be public, apparently it's against the rules. It is interesting that these videos have only been appearing in the last couple of months, perhaps people are running out of family & friends to recruit?

[Finix]

And TG and MMG are same owners....So what's your point??...
Since Eagle claims HYIPs are a part of organized crime, this should convince him they are a part of the mob.

[Finix]

Why do you spend so much time exposing ponzi schemes and calling out shills?
They think they can stop people from participating. Their dream is HYIPfree cyberspace. Good luck to them, but it's not going to happen.

[VisaDeKline]

[QUOTE=EagleOne;46959][B][COLOR="#0000CD"]When Roman runs with the money and he will unless the feds shut him down first, I would love for you to sit in my office and answer the phone when one of these major Ponzi's goes down. Then tell me they are just innocent money games.

I found this wording interesting. It's on Freshearnings.com, Mr/Ms. Koyama is the busiest Technical Expert in the industry. - Currently dealing with clients who are 'true believers'. The avalanche will be huge.
FreshEarning.com. I hope our services will be of interest to you. Since you are reading this, I assume that you have already shown interest. We are a team of professionals that will lead you to prosperity and peace. If you follow us, you will shortly praise the Lord that he led you here. By putting your money to work with us, you will make the right decision. You will not only increase your savings, but will also help those in need. Allow me to introduce my team to you. My brother Steve Nickson is a lawyer and apart from the legal issues is responsible for the marketing. Steve Nickson is our accountant. Nosuke Koyama is the technical expert responsible for the smooth operation of our website. Everyone is welcome to join us. Our doors are and will always remain open to you.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

Why do you spend so much time exposing ponzi schemes and calling out shills?

Fair question and it deserves an honest answer - although I can only speak for my own motives - others have their own reasons, but as far as I am aware, they are generally driven by a motivation to educate and help people or to nail the crooks.

Once upon a time I joined an autosurf thinking it was an advertising company. I fell hook line and sinker for all the BS and became a happy cheerleader and supporter of a founder who I trusted and believed to be a super honest businessman. Like a good little believer, I left the money accumulating on a web page. The program exploded, went off line, flew high above the radar and started up rallies that seemed like revival meetings. Had reservations about that last development but thought, oh well that's America for you, it's the way they seem to do things there. Needless to say I DID NOT DO THE MATH!

When the Secret Service raided the aforesaid autosurf and documentation was published, I discovered that there existed a sordid subculture of internet business which was no more than illegal money games that was set up by a small but growing group of unscrupulous people, promoted by unscrupulous people to prey on the unsuspecting and uninformed. Coming from the world of legitimate business, UNTIL THAT POINT I DIDNT EVEN KNOW IT EXISTED! This subculture is what Finix calls "the Industry", but is basically fraud moved over to the internet where it is even easier than to defraud face to face. Taking advantage of the fact that the great majority of people who use the internet use it for legitimate purposes and that it is still a relatively new culture for many, these people cook up relatively complex schemes and present them to people who live in a world where fraud and theft do not touch their lives, outside the news on TV, and are not on the look out for internet tricks and dishonesty any more than they are offline (where they at least know the rules)

Folowing that period, I came into contact with people, elderly people, disabled people and many others who had fallen for the sweet talk of their "upline", who were often desperate to find a way to make a living using the internet who had been "sold" the scheme as a way of making a safe investment and had put in money they could not afford to lose BECAUSE of the assurances of these promoters. Many of them had lost their savings, they were at risk of losing their homes, retirement funds and college funds were depleted and marriages and family relationships had broken down when the scheme had blown up in their faces. Through this I realised that the people who ran and promoted these knew exactly what they were doing and made large sums and those who they needed to keep their money games going actually suffered.

Having learnt a lot, it seemed time to "pay it forward" and pass on the knowledge to help others fall into the same trap and wake up and smell the roses.

With time, and more information it was then easy to see that the enablers - the forums, the payment processors etc - also formed a part in maintaining this subculture alive and that there were wider implications. The money coming in and out of these schemes could come from anywhere, it could be money laundering from criminal activity or even terrorism and in some cases (that of Virtual Money is a case in point) have been proved to be involved. It is a billion dollar crime wave when all it totalled up.

The name of the scam in this case was a large one, ASD, but it could have been Zeek, P2P, Banners Broker, PS or any of the other HYIPs that were running around the web. The harm done is the same and it is done knowingly and without piety bv those who found and support the HYIP subculture.

Hope that answers your question.

[Finix]

UNTIL THAT POINT I DIDNT EVEN KNOW IT EXISTED!
Welcome to the real world :P

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

Quick correction, as you had your turn yesterday.


Welcome to the real world of internet fraud:P

[Finix]

I fell hook line and sinker for all the BS and became a happy cheerleader and supporter of a founder who I trusted and believed to be a super honest businessman.
How much did it piss you off to find out who he really was? When I first looked at HYIPs, I thought they were ran by people who couldn't make it in real life. From what I've seen from the ones that were shut down, it seems a fair assumption.

[Finix]

Quick correction, as you had your turn yesterday.
No, welcome to the real world where fraud is a part of life. Always has been, always will be. Until being scammed by ASD you lived in a sanitized and sheltered part of the world. Now you know what it really looks like.

[Finix]

Unlike the scammers however, none of these "naysayers"(I think the term "truthsayers"is more .... appropriate) are doing it to make money.
Not true. PPBlog asks for donations, scam.com makes money from running ads, etc. You won't make a fortune from ranting, but you can live pretty comfortably from it.

[Finix]

Finix is loosing or has lost all credibility now.
With you? I don't need it, you can have it if you want. Finix was an online persona that served its purpose of helping me to learn. Now I know what I needed to know.

[Finix]

From MMG:

Good Day,
We confirm that we have completed your request for withdrawal of funds from your account.
The amount you requested is USD2,000.00, payment method is SolidTrust Pay, transaction batch number is 274369844
:y:
Paid within 20 mins. Thank you Roman.
Maybe God really is on the side of HYIPs.

[PPBlog]

The "bridge loan" caper of Nicholas Cosmo and Agape World is back in the news today.

Federal District Court in New York Enters Order of Permanent Injunction against Defendants Agape World, Inc. and Agape Merchant Advance LLC, Charged with Defrauding Customers in Commodity Futures Trading Scheme (http://cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/pr6523-13)

Cosmo already is in federal prison through January 2031, but certain civil actions remain in the courts.

PPBlog

[Finix]

Cosmo already is in federal prison through January 2031
Then we know he isn't Roman unless the Feds gave him access to the computer and instructed him to run PS.

[EagleOne]

Well, we have a feeble attempt to explain why Nanci Jo had to take down her videos. It seems some guy "stole" her YouTube videos and put them up on his website. Now if someone put her YouTube videos up on their website, they are still her videos. It is still her promoting PS. But then that explanation has another problem. You see she removed the video from her website too. Now that was not "stolen" by this guy. But there is also another problem. One of the other major pimps of PS, John Shepcoff, seems to have also removed his videos where he was promoting his weekly interest earnings. And those videos were not "stolen" by this guy and put on his website. Now John does have other videos promoting PS still working, so it makes one wonder why just his interest earnings videos have gone MIA, and if his others will too go MIA.

You can bet this is about to go bye-bye.

[Finix]

That Cosmo had an interesting life. Nicholas Cosmo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Cosmo)

25 years in federal prison is steep. You have to have a really high tolerance for risks to be in this business.

[velocitas_eradico]

Overheard a phone conversation between two PS participants and one said they were told in a conference call three days ago to remove any youtube videos or facebook posts pertaining to the program and anyone caught advertising or talking about it would have their account shut down. The participant I know has no idea this is a ponzi, fwiw. Ignorance is bliss...

[okosh]

No, I'm offering a different perspective on the industry. You look at it from the perspective of criminal justice. I look at it as a collection of parts that work together so that I can program the simulation.

LOL...You really did bump your head :RpS_laugh:

[path2prosperity]

Business people on TG, MMG and dont forget ASA???? Games players PULEEZE!! (that's american for "give me a break!)

I posted on TG, so did LRM, Eagle "okosh" and a few others here. Please don't assume that it was a den of thieves!

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

I posted on TG, so did LRM, Eagle "okosh" and a few others here. Please don't assume that it was a den of thieves!

Except for the naysayers, it is.

[path2prosperity]

Except for the naysayers, it is.

Same on every board. Where are Adlandpro naysayers?

[Finix]

TG and MMG are convenient 'cuz they have all current high risk opps in one place. Then there is warrior forum, digital point, etc. There are also carder forums, hacking forums, anything your heart desires.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

Same on every board. Where are Adlandpro naysayers?

Wrong thread - this is about Profitable Sunshine. But anyway, you know. They dont get to post as the threads are "owned" and moderated by the people who promote the scams not by admins, unlike the other forums and the boss man doesnt allow anti scam warning threads.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

Overheard a phone conversation between two PS participants and one said they were told in a conference call three days ago to remove any youtube videos or facebook posts pertaining to the program and anyone caught advertising or talking about it would have their account shut down. The participant I know has no idea this is a ponzi, fwiw. Ignorance is bliss...

Bliss until the whole thing goes bang (is stopped by law enforcement) or goes whimper (implodes or the owner runs off the money) and they lose their shirts and their reputations.

[Finix]

Y'all made me curious to actually take a look at PS site. It's not so bad, and the bible quotes are appropriately chosen. ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’

[Finix]

Welcome to Profitable Sunrise! (http://loans.profitablesunrise.com/)


What differs us from a regular bank or a financial institution is that we have gone great lengths to get rid of the red tape and lengthy verification procedures. We reserve up to 3 business days to review and approve or decline any loan application. The minimum amount one can request is $50,000.00 with the maximum of $12,500,000.00. Requests for amounts of $500,000 and above are negotiated individually and a meeting in person is mandatory.

[Finix]

This means the income (if it were real) would come from loansharking. Which in turn means there are no poor unsuspecting souls to cry over at the end of this thing.

[Fendaril]

Fair question and it deserves an honest answer - although I can only speak for my own motives - others have their own reasons, but as far as I am aware, they are generally driven by a motivation to educate and help people or to nail the crooks.

Once upon a time I joined an autosurf thinking it was an advertising company. I fell hook line and sinker for all the BS and became a happy cheerleader and supporter of a founder who I trusted and believed to be a super honest businessman. Like a good little believer, I left the money accumulating on a web page. The program exploded, went off line, flew high above the radar and started up rallies that seemed like revival meetings. Had reservations about that last development but thought, oh well that's America for you, it's the way they seem to do things there. Needless to say I DID NOT DO THE MATH!

When the Secret Service raided the aforesaid autosurf and documentation was published, I discovered that there existed a sordid subculture of internet business which was no more than illegal money games that was set up by a small but growing group of unscrupulous people, promoted by unscrupulous people to prey on the unsuspecting and uninformed. Coming from the world of legitimate business, UNTIL THAT POINT I DIDNT EVEN KNOW IT EXISTED! This subculture is what Finix calls "the Industry", but is basically fraud moved over to the internet where it is even easier than to defraud face to face. Taking advantage of the fact that the great majority of people who use the internet use it for legitimate purposes and that it is still a relatively new culture for many, these people cook up relatively complex schemes and present them to people who live in a world where fraud and theft do not touch their lives, outside the news on TV, and are not on the look out for internet tricks and dishonesty any more than they are offline (where they at least know the rules)

Folowing that period, I came into contact with people, elderly people, disabled people and many others who had fallen for the sweet talk of their "upline", who were often desperate to find a way to make a living using the internet who had been "sold" the scheme as a way of making a safe investment and had put in money they could not afford to lose BECAUSE of the assurances of these promoters. Many of them had lost their savings, they were at risk of losing their homes, retirement funds and college funds were depleted and marriages and family relationships had broken down when the scheme had blown up in their faces. Through this I realised that the people who ran and promoted these knew exactly what they were doing and made large sums and those who they needed to keep their money games going actually suffered.

Having learnt a lot, it seemed time to "pay it forward" and pass on the knowledge to help others fall into the same trap and wake up and smell the roses.

With time, and more information it was then easy to see that the enablers - the forums, the payment processors etc - also formed a part in maintaining this subculture alive and that there were wider implications. The money coming in and out of these schemes could come from anywhere, it could be money laundering from criminal activity or even terrorism and in some cases (that of Virtual Money is a case in point) have been proved to be involved. It is a billion dollar crime wave when all it totalled up.

The name of the scam in this case was a large one, ASD, but it could have been Zeek, P2P, Banners Broker, PS or any of the other HYIPs that were running around the web. The harm done is the same and it is done knowingly and without piety bv those who found and support the HYIP subculture.

Hope that answers your question.

It seems my judgements of you were wrong. Your post made my eyes water a bit. It made me feel guilty for even calling you a naysayer.

God bless you truly for your noble efforts, you deserve good things to happen for your empathy.

Empathy is a wonderful trait that I am still trying to master, and I want to feel how you feel when you see people lose everything, and not even know them in person. That is amazing and must be etheric for you.

[Finix]

Empathy is a wonderful trait that I am still trying to master
It's actually pretty easy to do. Imagine yourself in the same situation as another person, explore your feelings and you'll get it just fine. Some people are harder to understand than others, but if you keep practicing, you can understand anyone you want.

[Fendaril]

I am curious if it is possible for a loan shark to pay people interest to give him money to loan, and make a profit on people he loans to.

If that is the case, it is possible for PS to be very much sustainable.

Lets assume there are people who pay 35% interest daily mon-fri.

[Finix]

The model itself is possible if it's very carefully calculated and consistently adjusted based on actual results. It's very unlikely PS is doing the loans in the amounts sufficient to cover its obligations.

[EagleOne]

Overheard a phone conversation between two PS participants and one said they were told in a conference call three days ago to remove any youtube videos or facebook posts pertaining to the program and anyone caught advertising or talking about it would have their account shut down. The participant I know has no idea this is a ponzi, fwiw. Ignorance is bliss...

Well apparently John Shepcoff didn't get the message because he still has videos up and working. Now wouldnt' that be a hoot if he got his account shut down with all the members in his group.

But you see this flies in the face of a poster at MMG that claimed the reason why Nanci Jo's videos went down was because some guy "stole" her videos and put them on his website. And they say they called PS to find out why. Now why they called PS instead of Nanci is a mystery, but if they did call PS it shows how deep she is involved in PS and can't hide when this goes "POOF."

[Fendaril]

Well apparently John Shepcoff didn't get the message because he still has videos up and working. Now wouldnt' that be a hoot if he got his account shut down with all the members in his group.

But you see this flies in the face of a poster at MMG that claimed the reason why Nanci Jo's videos went down was because some guy "stole" her videos and put them on his website. And they say they called PS to find out why. Now why they called PS instead of Nanci is a mystery, but if they did call PS it shows how deep she is involved in PS and can't hide when this goes "POOF."

Relax. PS has a no advertising policy. You are only allowed to recruit through a personal referrel. It has been like that way before this thread started.

On to the next doomsday prediction. You are getting pretty warm.

[littleroundman]

Relax. PS has a no advertising policy. You are only allowed to recruit through a personal referrel. It has been like that way before this thread started.

On to the next doomsday prediction. You are getting pretty warm.

To be completely accurate, your statement should read:


Relax. PS PRETENDS it has a no advertising policy. You are only allowed to recruit through a personal referrel. It has been like that way before this thread started.

Ask Nanci Jo Frazer how well Profitable Sunrise policed its' pretend "no advertising policy"

Wakey, wakey time, Fendaril

[Finix]

On to the next doomsday prediction. You are getting pretty warm.
Unless you have insider info, these predictions can serve the PS more than the public. PS can announce a change of plans and keep going for quite some time. There are many ways to spin a believable story and milk it for every penny.

[Fendaril]

To be completely accurate, your statement should read:



Ask Nanci Jo Frazer how well Profitable Sunrise policed its' pretend "no advertising policy"

Wakey, wakey time, Fendaril

Eagle ninja edited my post and his to erase his mistake.

Revert it back please.

[baylee]

Relax. PS has a no advertising policy. You are only allowed to recruit through a personal referrel. It has been like that way before this thread started.

On to the next doomsday prediction. You are getting pretty warm.The nay-sayers have not been wrong about these scams. This is just one more scam in a very long list.

[Fendaril]

The nay-sayers have not been wrong about these scams. This is just one more scam in a very long list.

Is that why Eagle had to edit his post and mine to cover himself?

[Finix]

The nay-sayers have not been wrong about these scams.
The only thing you have not been wrong about is the fact that all of the opps eventually disappeared or were shut down. You have been wrong plenty of times about the specifics.

[okosh]

Y'all made me curious to actually take a look at PS site.

After you made like 100 posts in a thread you decided to now try to be on topic??......

[Finix]

After you made like 100 posts in a thread you decided to now try to be on topic??......
It's easy to be on topic on RS. Call everything a scam and you'll score a rep of a senior scambuster. Easy-sneasy.

[baylee]

Is that why Eagle had to edit his post and mine to cover himself?
Ask him not me.

Just a tad off topic but first hand I have seen the Mystery Shopper Scam and the after affects.
Where my wife works a guy tried it and even after being told by most of the employees, it was an out and out scam. He said "Look, they are trusting me with a $5000.00 Western Union Money Order. He cashed it and put in in his checking account and after subtracting his $300.00 plus spending money to shop with, got a Bank Money Order for the rest sent it back to them. (No denying he was/is stupid) Of course the rest of the story is that the Western Union Money Order was counterfeit and the bank sued to get their money back and he ended up filing personnel bankruptcy, his wife left him taking his kids. This story was in all the local and surrounding area newspapers and on the local TV stations. I write my senators and representatives in local and state to crack down on these thieves (ADMINS, helpers, and Cheerleaders) send them to jail to some serious and I do mean serious jail time.

This Scam is no different, it will ruin lives just the same way.

[Finix]

Just a tad off topic but first hand I have seen the Mystery Shopper Scam and the after affects.
Where my wife works a guy tried it and even after being told by most of the employees, it was an out and out scam. He said "Look, they are trusting me with a $5000.00 Western Union Money Order. He cashed it and put in in his checking account and after subtracting his $300.00 plus spending money to shop with, got a Bank Money Order for the rest sent it back to them. (No denying he was/is stupid) Of course the rest of the story is that the Western Union Money Order was counterfeit and the bank sued to get their money back and he ended up filing personnel bankruptcy, his wife left him taking his kids.
This also off-topic, but all you have to do is tell the bank rep you have doubts about the money order being real. They can tell you right there if it is a counterfeit or not. The post office can do the same.

[EagleOne]

Let's see. Nanci's videos get removed, even from her website. Now to enter the home page of NJFGlobalGroupCommuinity you have to first agree to their entry agreement. Then you have to enter your sponsors name and phone number for PS, but if you don't have one you can enter none. Then you have to put all your information in including PS number. Now this is supposed to be a "Global Group Community" that before you could access every page of their website. And this isn't a Ponzi. :RpS_lol: :RpS_lol: :RpS_lol:

[Finix]

This Scam is no different, it will ruin lives just the same way.
Yes, but let's be clear on the point that Fendaril is not responsible for suicide bunnies using PS to destroy themselves. Neither are other members who happen to make a profit from PS.

[EagleOne]

Yes, but let's be clear on the point that Fendaril is not responsible for suicide bunnies using PS to destroy themselves. Neither are other members who happen to make a profit from PS.

Oh please, there have been several who committed suicide because they believed the hype and lies told by the members of the program. You have no clue what you are talking about. I know because I get the phone calls telling me so.

You can try to sugar-coat this all you want but it is organized stealing, and that is all it is.

[EagleOne]

Is that why Eagle had to edit his post and mine to cover himself?

:RpS_lol: :RpS_lol: :RpS_lol: I edited a misspelled word and that somehow makes me wrong? Thanks for the best laugh I have had in a long time. But this is the best you've got? Seriously?

[Finix]

It's their choice. If I committed suicide every time someone lied to me, I'd be dead a long time ago.

[baylee]

I think China has it correct.

The Chinese government is always concerned about the healthy development of finance, and the
legislature and judiciary also attach importance to punishment of financial crimes. The 1979 edition
Criminal Law
was the first criminal code of the People's Republic of China. At that time, financial crime
was not prominent so that the
Criminal Law
did not specify separate crime types for financial fraud and
only defined such crimes as ordinary fraud. The
Decision on Punishment for Crimes of Disrupting
Financial Order,
passed on the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress in June, 1995,
stipulated frauds of fund raising, loans, financial bills, certificates of credit, credit cards, insurance and
financial certificates as seven separated types of crime. In view of the increasing variety and complexity
of such crimes, the 1997 revised edition of
Criminal Law
separates crimes of financial fraud from
ordinary crimes of fraud and puts them as a section in Chapter III of Specific Divisions of the
Criminal
Law,
taking in the seven types in
Decision,
adding fraud of securities as another type and adjusting the
original circumstances about and legal punishment for a crime. The revision and adjustment in the 1997
edition of
Criminal Law
improves the legislation about crimes of financial fraud and provides legal basis
to punish financial fraud.
The provisions about crimes of financial fraud in the
Criminal Law,
based on China's national condition
and experience of foreign legislation, have the following characteristics:
1. Stipulation of
comparatively heavy punishment
Along with
the trend of mitigation of criminal punishment worldwide, the
Criminal Law of P.R. China
excludes the death penalty for most economic crimes. For example, the death penalty is not imposed on
ordinary crimes of fraud."But in order. to combat crimes of financial fraud, the revised
riminal Law
stipulates death penalty on fraud of fund raising, loans, financial bills and certificates of credit. The
application of the death penalty, however, is strictly limited only to crimes involving "especially huge
amount of money and causing especially heavy losses" to people's interests. Furthermore, the death
penalty is stipulated as a relatively specified punishment by law. That is, for crimes involving "especially
huge amount of money and causing especially heavy losses", the criminals of financial fraud can be
sentenced to either life imprisonment or the death penalty. At the same time, the punishment of death
penalty which is not necessarily executed at once can be sentenced with a two-year-suspension (after the
two-year suspension, the punishment is usually reduced to life imprisonment). In this way, we are able to
toughen the punishment for crimes of financial fraud as well as control and reduce the application of the
death penalty"

LinK:

http://www.isrcl.org/Papers/Liu.pdf

[Finix]

You can't blame other people for making a personal choice. The decision to end one's life is a very personal decision and rarely has much to do with the outside circumstances.

[Finix]

As for China's laws, you can have the same in the U.S. if you want them. It won't stop fraud, though. It will push it further underground but it will still continue. Unless you want to kill all the participants as well. Then it might stop.

[baylee]

The decision to end one's life is a very personal decision and rarely has much to do with the outside circumstances.
.

I agree, but I fail to see what this sentence has do do with China's laws about fraud.

[Finix]

..........

[Finix]

..........

[baylee]

:RpS_lol: :RpS_lol: :RpS_lol: I edited a misspelled word and that somehow makes me wrong? Thanks for the best laugh I have had in a long time. But this is the best you've got? Seriously?
It is what it is! Scammers use smoke, mirrors, half truths, and twists and turns to obscure the truth.

[okosh]

..........

That's the best post you've made in this thread :RpS_flapper:

[EagleOne]

I think she was so overcome with emotion she could not express herself with such a heavy heart.

[okosh]

I think she was so overcome with emotion she could not express herself with such a heavy heart.

After knowing her for like 7-8 years I can guarantee you that finix has no emotions and no heart.....

[Fendaril]

After knowing her for like 7-8 years I can guarantee you that finix has no emotions and no heart.....

Well isn't everyone but the people on RS evil people with no heart? Nobody on RS can do any wrong.

:RpS_lol: :RpS_lol: :RpS_lol:

[Finix]

It originally said that I was too lazy to quote, but then I fixed the posts for baylee to understand the point about China. No big deal, or only Eagle can edit?

[Finix]

Here, I'll fix it again.

I think China has it correct.
You can have the same in the U.S. if you want them. It won't stop fraud, though. It will push it further underground but it will still continue. Unless you want to kill all the participants as well. Then it might stop.

[Finix]

Well isn't everyone but the people on RS evil people with no heart?

From what they are saying, a large portion of RS members used to participate in online money games themselves. It's just too funny they seem to have no compassion or empathy for winners, only for losers. Win or lose, you are the same type of person, nothing changes.

[Finix]

How about compassion or empathy for people who are going to spend decades in prison? None here either. No, it's not enough, we should kill those people instead. Eddie is right, hypocrisy, inc.

[NC Securities Division]

On February 27, 2013, the Securities Division of the North Carolina Department of the Secretary of State issued a Temporary Order to Cease and Desist to Roman Novak, Radoslav Novak, and Inter Reef LTD d/b/a Profitable Sunrise. Roman Novak, Radoslav Novak, and Inter Reef LTD d/b/a Profitable Sunrise were ordered to cease and desist from offering for sale, soliciting offers to purchase or selling, in or from North Carolina, any securities unless and until such securities have been registered and Roman Novak, Radoslav Novak, and Inter Reef LTD d/b/a Profitable Sunrise become registered as dealers or salesmen of securities. The Temporary Order to Cease and Desist found that Roman Novak, Radoslav Novak, and Inter Reef LTD d/b/a Profitable Sunrise offered investment contracts in the form of investment plans, made available through their website Welcome to Profitable Sunrise! (http://www.profitablesunrise.com), in violation of the North Carolina Securities Act. The Temporary Order to Cease and Desist gives Respondents 30 days in which to request a hearing. If no such request is made during that time, the Temporary Order to Cease and Desist shall become final. To read the Temporary Order, go to North Carolina Secretary of State (http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/sec/actions.aspx).

[okosh]

How about compassion or empathy for people who are going to spend decades in prison?

ANYONE who lives in the USA and runs any of these programs under their real name is a moron and deserves to spend decades in prison....Or in a mental home....

[okosh]

Nobody on RS can do any wrong.

Yep we are all saints here at RS....If any of us were Catholic we could be the next pope.....

[Finix]

ANYONE who lives in the USA and runs any of these programs under their real name is a moron and deserves to spend decades in prison
Anyone who puts their retirement plan in HYIPs is also a moron, but you don't seem to be happy when they get what they deserve - a lesson from someone playing god.

I thinks both sides of the fence deserve each other.

[Finix]

Having said this, I have plenty of empathy for both sides. That's why I neither participate in those sordid games nor try to dictate what should happen to people who run them.

[fishbay]

Having said this, I have plenty of empathy for both sides. That's why I neither participate in those sordid games nor try to dictate what should happen to people who run them.

What do you make of this.. FACEBOOK..
Others

Sibendu Kumar
I got this mail..whether this mail is from PS or its a spam.??


Good Day,

We suffered a data breach today in our server. As a security measure to
ensure your payments are only sent to you, we are asking you to confirm
your e-currency account so we know you are

the owner and no one else. Please use the link below to verify your
Profitable Sunrise account. The system is automated, so all that needs to
be done is to send a 0.01 amount and the system

will verify your account. This is to make it an efficient process so we do
not have to do one by one verification.

Verify your Profitable Sunrise Account:
Liberty Reserve*-*largest payment processor and money transfer system. Liberty Reserve serves millions since 2002 - Shopping Cart Interface


Have a Blessed Day,

Roman Novak,
Founder

[GlimDropper]

On February 27, 2013, the Securities Division of the North Carolina Department of the Secretary of State issued a Temporary Order to Cease and Desist to Roman Novak, Radoslav Novak, and Inter Reef LTD d/b/a Profitable Sunrise. Roman Novak, Radoslav Novak, and Inter Reef LTD d/b/a Profitable Sunrise were ordered to cease and desist from offering for sale, soliciting offers to purchase or selling, in or from North Carolina, any securities unless and until such securities have been registered and Roman Novak, Radoslav Novak, and Inter Reef LTD d/b/a Profitable Sunrise become registered as dealers or salesmen of securities. The Temporary Order to Cease and Desist found that Roman Novak, Radoslav Novak, and Inter Reef LTD d/b/a Profitable Sunrise offered investment contracts in the form of investment plans, made available through their website Welcome to Profitable Sunrise! (http://www.profitablesunrise.com), in violation of the North Carolina Securities Act. The Temporary Order to Cease and Desist gives Respondents 30 days in which to request a hearing. If no such request is made during that time, the Temporary Order to Cease and Desist shall become final. To read the Temporary Order, go to North Carolina Secretary of State (http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/sec/actions.aspx).

Thank you for posting the link NC. A copy of the complaint can be found here (http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/sec/actions.aspx#). Between this and the CID filed last summer against Zeek Rewards North Carolina's Secretary of States office is doing more than most of their peers to protect their citizens from online fraud. My thanks to them.

[ribshaw]

I am curious if it is possible for a loan shark to pay people interest to give him money to loan, and make a profit on people he loans to.

Fendaril, this got me thinking last night, there are peer to peer lending sites where you loan money to others and the website takes a cut and gives you the profit. All of the major business magazines have written about the larger ones so it would be a good place to start. You are not going to turn $80 into a million in a lifetime, much less two years as the rates are more on the order of 10% PER YEAR. But start now and compound your earnings and in 20 years you will be living well. (I don't participate, and there are default risks, taxes due, etc., so take it for what it is, free advice on the web)

Now, as this relates to PS and loan sharks, World wide we are in a near 0 interest rate environment for those with perfect credit. Roman is claiming his loans are both secured by assets and insured. (This would imply almost no credit risk) There is just no way someone would pay more than 10-20% annual for a bridge loan under such conditions. If one were to put up a $500k property for a $400K loan they are already giving 100K in collateral, why pay more? And if someone on the internet borrowing $50 to pay an electric bill at 10% per year, Roman's story becomes harder to believe.

As for loan sharks the rates are higher, but they are lending against gambling debts, drug deals, and once in a while real business loans. I would venture to say on the high end, $12,500,000 loans as claimed by PS would be very difficult for a loan shark to do as the money involved would throw up too many red flags. And if they had the clout to clean the money, they could move straight to money laundering and save the hassle of breaking kneecaps.

[Finix]

protect their citizens from online fraud
You are too kind. They are just trying to get a piece of the pie in the form of the registration fees.


On February 27, 2013, the Securities Division of the North Carolina Department of the Secretary of State issued a Temporary Order to Cease and Desist to Roman Novak, Radoslav Novak, and Inter Reef LTD d/b/a Profitable Sunrise. Roman Novak, Radoslav Novak, and Inter Reef LTD d/b/a Profitable Sunrise were ordered to cease and desist from offering for sale, soliciting offers to purchase or selling, in or from North Carolina, any securities unless and until such securities have been registered and Roman Novak, Radoslav Novak, and Inter Reef LTD d/b/a Profitable Sunrise become registered as dealers or salesmen of securities.

[littleroundman]

ANYONE who lives in the USA and runs any of these programs under their real name is a moron and deserves to spend decades in prison....Or in a mental home....

I used to ask myself "what were they thinking"

Then I realized, they WEREN'T thinking at all.

[littleroundman]

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc153/thelittleroundman/scams%202/cease_zps5aa63d3c.jpg

[Finix]

If the admins of PS are thinking, they could think along the lines of using the notice to explain the delays in payments on the Long Haul plans. The HYIPers hate the government, it will sit well with them.

[okosh]

If the admins of PS are thinking,

Admin used his real name....Means he is not capable of thinking.....

[GlimDropper]

You are too kind. They are just trying to get a piece of the pie in the form of the registration fees.

I'm sorry but you missed the mark here, registering a security is more than a simple matter of paying a fee. If that's all there was to it many if not all upscale US based ponzies would wallpaper their websites with official certificates attesting to their legitimacy. There are disclosures, background checks and the finicky little issue of being able to demonstrate a valid (legal) business model to deal with. The system isn't perfect (Madeoff) but there are many good reasons that HYIP/ponzi owners don't step foot into a State's Division of Securities office voluntarily.


If the admins of PS are thinking, they could think along the lines of using the notice to explain the delays in payments on the Long Haul plans. The HYIPers hate the government, it will sit well with them.

But this one hit's a bull's eye. If I were Roman I'd be moving the money out of the Czech Republic and meet up with it somewhere with warm beaches and no banking or extradition treaties.


[On edit: Do we have any Czech speakers here abouts? The money sent to PS was moved through a bank account credited to a Melland Company S.R.O. which may or may not be registered to an Alexander Smirnov. But Google's translation function isn't a good match for the language barrier. I'm sure they're using cutouts and "virtual" locations which are easy to recognize if, for example you knew the name of the Czech version of a "USP Store."

More coverage over on Patrick's blog:

(http://www.patrickpretty.com/2013/03/01/urgent-bulletin-moving-north-carolina-orders-profitable-sunrise-to-cease-and-desist-state-calls-it-an-immediate-and-significant-danger/)URGENT >> BULLETIN >> MOVING: North Carolina Orders ‘Profitable Sunrise’ To Cease And Desist; State Calls It An ‘Immediate And Significant Danger’ (http://www.patrickpretty.com/2013/03/01/urgent-bulletin-moving-north-carolina-orders-profitable-sunrise-to-cease-and-desist-state-calls-it-an-immediate-and-significant-danger/)

[GlimDropper]

What do you make of this.. FACEBOOK..
Others

Sibendu Kumar
I got this mail..whether this mail is from PS or its a spam.??


Good Day,

We suffered a data breach today in our server. As a security measure to
ensure your payments are only sent to you, we are asking you to confirm
your e-currency account so we know you are

the owner and no one else. Please use the link below to verify your
Profitable Sunrise account. The system is automated, so all that needs to
be done is to send a 0.01 amount and the system

will verify your account. This is to make it an efficient process so we do
not have to do one by one verification.

Verify your Profitable Sunrise Account:
Liberty Reserve*-*largest payment processor and money transfer system. Liberty Reserve serves millions since 2002 - Shopping Cart Interface


Have a Blessed Day,

Roman Novak,
Founder

Welcome to RealScam Fishbay.

I broke the link in your post because I'm pretty sure it was a straight up phishing attempt. It pretended to take you to the Liberty Reserve website but took you to "libertyrestrve dot com" instead. There's more than one way to become a victim from playing HYIP games.

[EagleOne]

What do you make of this.. FACEBOOK..
Others

Sibendu Kumar
I got this mail..whether this mail is from PS or its a spam.??


Good Day,

We suffered a data breach today in our server. As a security measure to
ensure your payments are only sent to you, we are asking you to confirm
your e-currency account so we know you are

the owner and no one else. Please use the link below to verify your
Profitable Sunrise account. The system is automated, so all that needs to
be done is to send a 0.01 amount and the system

will verify your account. This is to make it an efficient process so we do
not have to do one by one verification.

Verify your Profitable Sunrise Account:
Liberty Reserve*-*largest payment processor and money transfer system. Liberty Reserve serves millions since 2002 - Shopping Cart Interface


Have a Blessed Day,

Roman Novak,
Founder

This is a phishing E-mail and FB post. They want access to your account, and will clean you out if you fall for it. WARN others not to fall for it.

[EagleOne]

This is almost like Zeek Rewards all over again. I am betting the SEC and Secret Service are not far behind just like in Zeek. Only this time they are not "negotiating" with Roman like they did Paul Burks. The next 48-96 hours are going to be really interesting

[EagleOne]

I guess drug dealers should be called unlicensed pharmacists according to Finix.

[Fendaril]

This is almost like Zeek Rewards all over again. I am betting the SEC and Secret Service are not far behind just like in Zeek. Only this time they are not "negotiating" with Roman like they did Paul Burks. The next 48-96 hours are going to be really interesting

Why do I feel like a complete idiot who bit the fish bait?


If PS burns up, I will forever feel guilty.

I don't know how to demonstrate sorrow. Can't even withdraw my money until 150 days, which by that time it will be gone.

If I get the interest back, I will donate it all, or withdraw it and burn the money.

[fishbay]

I sent some of your latest info to a few facebook friends that are knee deep in this..this is the reply i received from one of them..(quote)I called the NJF Global group about this and the person I spoke to in the office said that Roman has been prepared for this and that he's been through this before and that there is nothing to fear about PS crashing. Thanks for sending the links anyways. They have been very informative. Keep me updated on this.

How can they be so brainwashed

[Fendaril]

I sent some of your latest info to a few facebook friends that are knee deep in this..this is the reply i received from one of them..(quote)I called the NJF Global group about this and the person I spoke to in the office said that Roman has been prepared for this and that he's been through this before and that there is nothing to fear about PS crashing. Thanks for sending the links anyways. They have been very informative. Keep me updated on this.

How can they be so brainwashed

They aren't brainwashed, they were given a plausible explanation and believed it. We all have free will

[fishbay]

They have been lied to..seen the evidence of..and still believe..??

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

They have been lied to..seen the evidence of..and still believe..??

It seems to happen after every scam. There are always a group of members who cannot believe that they have been conned - they are in total denial. There are also those who have made their money and will say anything to keep their downlines quiet.

Here is some more evidence - posted on the comments of the Patrick Pretty Blog - this time from New Zealand.

Alarm bells sound over investment - Personal Finance - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-finance/news/article.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=10868629)

and here is the link to Patrick's blog article again as there are several links in the comments of interest.

URGENT >> BULLETIN >> MOVING: North Carolina Orders ‘Profitable Sunrise’ To Cease And Desist; State Calls It An ‘Immediate And Significant Danger’ (http://www.patrickpretty.com/2013/03/01/urgent-bulletin-moving-north-carolina-orders-profitable-sunrise-to-cease-and-desist-state-calls-it-an-immediate-and-significant-danger/)

Please note the involvement of the Inter Reef sole Director, Agnes Jouaneau, with a company caught selling arms to Iran. I don't think free will comes into it, if people have been lied to in order to persuade them to join.

Just innocent fun, eh?

[EagleOne]

What is going to be interesting is to see how soon other states join the bandwagon and issue their Cease and Desist Order, and how long before the SEC and the Secret Service act.

When the first shoe falls, the second one is not far behind. As I said, the next 48-96 hours is going to be very interesting.

[littleroundman]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3261/cease1.jpg

Triangle Business Journal

(http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/2013/03/securities-firm-ordered-to-cease-and.html)
Marshall urged anyone in North Carolina who has invested with Profitable Sunrise to contact the Secretary of State’s Securities Division at 1-800-688-4507.

[littleroundman]

Get ready to see the number of "I got paid" posts in the Profitable Sunrise thread on the MMG HYIP ponzi forum double overnight as the pimps and shills try and bury the news of the Cease and Desist order in a flood of "payment proof" postings

[Eddie Haskell]

Get ready to see the number of "I got paid" posts in the Profitable Sunrise thread on the MMG HYIP ponzi forum double overnight as the pimps and shills try and bury the news of the Cease and Desist order in a flood of "payment proof" postings

Ken Russo has already posted at talk gold with a paid post. Its as predictable as the sun coming up in the east.

[baylee]

Ken Russo has already posted at talk gold with a paid post. Its as predictable as the sun coming up in the east.


LOL, Russo/DrDave strikes again. You would like to think that people would catch on to the likes of russo/drdave, faith sloan, blondie, and stroes sooner or later.

[mirele]

This is almost like Zeek Rewards all over again. I am betting the SEC and Secret Service are not far behind just like in Zeek. Only this time they are not "negotiating" with Roman like they did Paul Burks. The next 48-96 hours are going to be really interesting

Do we know what state PS is physically located in? Some states are, uhm, shall we say, less likely to move in on outfits like PS. On the other hand, the states and feds may have moved in but we haven't heard anything yet. I remember with Zeek we got reports that the feds were moving in because people had apparently gone to the Zeekler physical location and found it shut down and with police guarding it.

I'd also note that people apparently aren't publicly moving to the exits quite yet or calling for prayer meetings for the benefit of the PS scammers. Additionally, the vultures of ponzi schemes haven't started swooping in to pick off disillusioned members. I saw this in evidence with Zeek and Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing on Twitter, but not yet for PS. Something to keep an eye out for.

[littleroundman]

In the overall scheme of HYIP ponzi fraud, Profitable Sunrise is only medium sized compared to a Zeek or AdSurf Daily "next big thing" HYIP.

I think it highly unlikely there'll be anything like the after effects we saw with the demise of Zeek.

Most of the regular HYIP ponzi regulars have moved on already, and, if they haven't, the North Carolina action will ensure they do now.

Nanci Jo Frazer had the beejesus frightened out of her by the IRS and it was entirely predictable payment problems would surface as soon as that source of credibility and new members dried up.

Myriad Force is long gone, Fendaril appears to be getting a severe dose of reality and many/most of the pimps and shills are conspicuous by their absence.

IM(very)HO, unless something very unusual takes place, this will end in a whimper rather than a bang.

[baylee]

If Fendaril really feels bad about being taken in by this scam, he shouldn't . It has happened to a lot of people in the past including me. That's how most people learn about these things.

[Nourjan]

How about compassion or empathy for people who are going to spend decades in prison? None here either. No, it's not enough, we should kill those people instead. Eddie is right, hypocrisy, inc.



Having said this, I have plenty of empathy for both sides. That's why I neither participate in those sordid games nor try to dictate what should happen to people who run them.

Why should I feel sympathy for for some evil crooks.These aren't people who are forced into a life of crime due to mitigating circumstances,they are more than capable of eeking out an honest living.They are remorseless predators that took advantage of the weak(stupidity is a weakness, so is greed) the innocent(newbs and naivetes) and the vulnerable(elderly pensioners) .

You can call me a psycopath(which may actually be true) all you want , but I really do wish for terrible things to happen to these scumbags for the lives they ruined.Heck,I'm willing to some really horrible things to this bastards myself should I have the opportunity(I pray I never had that chance) .Don't expect any mercy from me,I have a hard time mustering enough for those who deserve it.

I'm sorry for the the off-tangent rant .I guess this is one of my berserk button.

[Merchant of Truth]

In the overall scheme of HYIP ponzi fraud, Profitable Sunrise is only medium sized compared to a Zeek or AdSurf Daily "next big thing" HYIP.

I think it highly unlikely there'll be anything like the after effects we saw with the demise of Zeek.

Most of the regular HYIP ponzi regulars have moved on already, and, if they haven't, the North Carolina action will ensure they do now.

Nanci Jo Frazer had the beejesus frightened out of her by the IRS and it was entirely predictable payment problems would surface as soon as that source of credibility and new members dried up.

Myriad Force is long gone, Fendaril appears to be getting a severe dose of reality and many/most of the pimps and shills are conspicuous by their absence.

IM(very)HO, unless something very unusual takes place, this will end in a whimper rather than a bang.

I tend to disagree. This will be a big takedown. Because PS is such a blatant purposefull rape of the Christian Community worldwide, this bust may stick harder. This is a powerful news story. Not just "another Ponzi" but a calculated pillage of the Christian Community. It will also be picked up by International Law Enforcement. ZEEK was a US based scam. Roman's crime act is global by its very design. Just an opinion but I smell BIG time international organized crime. Meanwhile, this is one of the finest expose interviews on the topic and full credit to Lynn. Send him a donation. He's earned it!!!They NAIL Nancy Jo Frazer and she deserves it and more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btosH6gwbxk

[littleroundman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=btosH6gwbxk

[Fat City, LA]

You are too kind. They are just trying to get a piece of the pie in the form of the registration fees.
What a simple statement.

Just as the end of many crime bosses in the US starts with tax evasion, end of many hyip bosses starts with securities fraud.

[EagleOne]

You can bank on Ken Russo, Faith Sloan, Nanci Jo Frazer, John Shepcoff, Owen Brewer, Chris Lombardi, Nigel (forgot his last name), Blondie, Stros and a few other major pimps did not have to worry about 140 days or 270 days to get their money out of PS.

In fact I would not be surprised if Nanci Jo and Roman weren't planning their next Ponzi de Jour right now. Funny how her videos all came down just before this announcement, she changed the means by which you can access her NJFGlobalGroup website, and conveniently is on vacation with her family when this news broke. But then I am sure it is all just a co-incidence. ((!))

[path2prosperity]

Some reassuring news for you Eagle (http://faithsloan.com/)(!)


"Don’t panic and wait for Roman Novak to make the next move. Today he paid like clockwork. We don’t feel the effect of any change. We know that these types of cease and desist orders are par for course. It doesn’t mean that ProfitableSunrise is a done deal. Keep things in perspective and let us see how things progress as the days in the month get behind us.

So stay tuned for further news!

Faith Sloan – 1 800 670 3202"

[Fat City, LA]

from Talk Gold:
rony-the-hyip-master
Newbie Amateur

Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5
Re: Profitablesunrise - Profitablesunrise.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitty2009
IS THE A REP. FROM PROSUNRISE ON HERE ......

I AM LOCKED OUT OF MY ACCOUNT.anyone help me on this , i know the logins are correct as they are saved on my laptop but the last 3 days i cant gain entry in to my acc.

my user name is deanb777
i too stopped getting access to my account since last thursday and have not gotten any more daily emails like i used too. It seems my email on file was changed. Also, i have other people in my downline with same problem. Support nor roman are responding. They seem to respond to other people with different problems when they feel like it.

------------------------------------------------
Deja Vu..... how many times has this been the start.

[okosh]

I tend to disagree. This will be a big takedown. Because PS is such a blatant purposefull rape of the Christian Community worldwide, this bust may stick harder. This is a powerful news story. Not just "another Ponzi" but a calculated pillage of the Christian Community. It will also be picked up by International Law Enforcement. ZEEK was a US based scam. Roman's crime act is global by its very design. Just an opinion but I smell BIG time international organized crime. Meanwhile, this is one of the finest expose interviews on the topic and full credit to Lynn. Send him a donation. He's earned it!!!They NAIL Nancy Jo Frazer and she deserves it and more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btosH6gwbxk

I enjoyed listening to this radio show....Lots of great info there not just about PS but scams in general.....
Keep up the great work Lynne :RpS_wink:

[okosh]

I guess drug dealers should be called unlicensed pharmacists according to Finix.

No...According to finix drug dealers are part of the "Pharmacy Industry" (!)

[wserra]

A word about enforcement actions such as that of the NC SoS: they're obviously valuable as a way to get the word out. Even the greedy and gullible who fail to realize that promises of returns of 1-2% per day are conclusive evidence of a ponzi may yet heed the official words of law enforcement. And, given the internet, it doesn't take long for those words to get around.

Still, something like this does not result in realistic enforcement. Unless the NC SoS has more than appears in her complaint (http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/sec/actions.aspx#), it will just sit in a court file. These guys apparently have no presence in NC other than online. These guys may have no presence in the US other than online. With a legit company, one can serve through the SoS herself - but, of course, these guys are not registered so as to be serve-able (and probably have no assets here to seize in any event). The only address in the complaint is 590A Kingsbury Road, Birmingham UK. That's a mail drop. (Among the multitude of other companies listed there is one I think particularly apt as a parent for Profitable Sunrise, Narcosis Limited (https://www.duedil.com/company/07463441/narcosis-limited).) It's also listed in the complaint as the "principal residence" of Roman Novak, something not possible. Roman Novak, of course, may not even exist.

In order to achieve any realistic hope of enforcement, this one will require international effort, which would begin by following the money. My guess is that the trail is already cold. We may see the usual attempts at piggyback scams per ASD and Zeek - "Ripped off by Profitable Sunrise? Pay me to get your money back!" - and then the whole thing will just sink beneath the waves.

Hope I'm wrong.

[Finix]

You can call me a psycopath(which may actually be true) all you want
No, I feel sorry for you too. You seem to have too much anger over the things that you can't control.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

A word about enforcement actions such as that of the NC SoS: they're obviously valuable as a way to get the word out. Even the greedy and gullible who fail to realize that promises of returns of 1-2% per day are conclusive evidence of a ponzi may yet heed the official words of law enforcement. And, given the internet, it doesn't take long for those words to get around.

Still, something like this does not result in realistic enforcement. Unless the NC SoS has more than appears in her complaint (http://www.secretary.state.nc.us/sec/actions.aspx#), it will just sit in a court file. These guys apparently have no presence in NC other than online. These guys may have no presence in the US other than online. With a legit company, one can serve through the SoS herself - but, of course, these guys are not registered so as to be serve-able (and probably have no assets here to seize in any event). The only address in the complaint is 590A Kingsbury Road, Birmingham UK. That's a mail drop. (Among the multitude of other companies listed there is one I think particularly apt as a parent for Profitable Sunrise, Narcosis Limited (https://www.duedil.com/company/07463441/narcosis-limited).) It's also listed in the complaint as the "principal residence" of Roman Novak, something not possible. Roman Novak, of course, may not even exist.

In order to achieve any realistic hope of enforcement, this one will require international effort, which would begin by following the money. My guess is that the trail is already cold. We may see the usual attempts at piggyback scams per ASD and Zeek - "Ripped off by Profitable Sunrise? Pay me to get your money back!" - and then the whole thing will just sink beneath the waves.

Hope I'm wrong.

So do we all. This a very pessimistic view, although it seems to be based on bitter past experience.

There is one positive side. This case is receiving a lot of publicity internationally. By choosing Britain for the registration of Inter Reef Ltd, Profitable Sunrise have also gotten themselves in a country with equally tough laws on the sale of unregistered securities and other financial services. The New Zealand article which goes as far to trace a link with the Director of Inter Reef Ltd and illegal arms deals should serve as a wake up call to anyone who still thinks that the HYIP subculture (or should I call it an "Industry") is just a fun game for those cynics "in the know" to play around with. The fact that so many founders of the schemes do end up unpunished and run with the money is also a clear signal that they are not dumb either. This following on from Zeek Rewards is has a far higher public profile than the previous middle size HYIPs, ergo the public are beginning to receive an education that was not previously available to them. In that sense Bernard Maddoff has done us all a favor. Before he was turned in, most of the investing public did not know what a ponzi even was and that includes some of the newer participants in the money games. Now it forms part of the vocabulary of anyone interested in investments and money games.

The obvious solution to the HYIP problem would be if the enablers have their wings clipped. A few prosecutions of the habitual big promoters of HYIPs and a major clamp down on the payment processors who deal with the US would be a start

Hopefully at least the next big thing will attract a few less followers than the last one as the public becomes more aware of what they are being pimped.

[scratchycat]

After receiving PPBlog's latest report, I wanted to come over and congratulate all those who have participated in exposing this program and say thanks for a job well done!!

[GlimDropper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=btosH6gwbxk


I waited for the next page to quote this just to give it more exposure. A GREAT interview with our very own EagleOne.

[scratchycat]

I spread it around Facebook also!! :RpS_smile:

[JCA777]

Question: How do the "admins" of HYIP's know who to pay and how much? Are these web site "scripts" set up with algorithms based on who gets in for how much and how long or is it merely arbitrary and done manually? Being a newbie, I don't have a clue. You guys got me so interested in this thread in what is going to happen in the near future that I got in PS for $10 just to watch what happens from the inside and see what kind of communication I receive. Since I'm at the bottom of the food chain, I don't suspect I'll get much of anything in the way of communications etc. $10 is just my admission to the "show." LOL!

[Finix]

How do the "admins" of HYIP's know who to pay and how much?
From the HYIP scripts.


Are these web site "scripts" set up with algorithms based on who gets in for how much and how long
Yes.

If you've never seen them before, you can see a demo from some companies that sell HYIP scripts.

[Finix]

Why do I feel like a complete idiot who bit the fish bait?
No idea. This isn't your first rodeo for you to feel that way. Maybe because you feel guilty about being in ponzies, period.

[Former Player]

When PS does finally crash or get busted it would be great to see people finally start filing lawsuits against their upline and or promoters. These would be easy wins especially if they did videos or posted in forums. If you are in PS be sure to find out who your group leaders are. There might be some good money at stake for you, especially if you lose money.

[Merchant of Truth]

Good idea. Everyone spread it around to everyone they know...especially those in PS.

Hey, as long as we know that law enforcement is monitoring this forum, let me make a contribution.

This was just posted less than a month ago by someone claiming to be Roman. It doesn't sound like his accent..but some good researcher will be able to trace this. The more PS promoters who get "interviewed" by the law, the faster they will find Roman. Someone will cut a deal to save themselves. They always do.

Someone will be in trouble....is this Roman?

Profitable Sunrise Presentation, by owner Roman Novak... How The Money Is Made? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IYWQ4-uTYBU#)!

And here's an actual peek into the PS back office.

Profitable Sunrise | My Progress Getting rich on the internet, is it really possible?yes - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zgPkt4x0zWo)

Archive this "evidence" before it's gone.

Anyone want the NJF Nanci Jo Slide Show???? It is a keeper for the Ponzi "Hall of Shame."

3262

[GlimDropper]

Recent Posts By Others

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc7/369113_1009423640_106208786_q.jpgCynthia X




Message from Roman this morning re: N. Carolina.....

I assure you that we are in control of the situation.
We will issue an official update soon.

Have a Blessed Day,
Roman Novak
Profitable Sunrise Founder




I edited Cynthia's name, I feel bad for her. She helped run the Uber secret facebook group for Zeek Rewards loyal affiliates who donated money to Robert Craddock's lawsuit to nowhere. And now she's taking solace in her PS upline sharing Roman's kind assurances that all is well. I honestly do believe that she is sincere in her belief that the closing of Zeek Rewards was a travesty of justice, I wonder if there is any force on earth strong enough to shake her faith in Roman Novak.

[fishbay]

Looks like they have someone trying to hold down the fort today..




Elizabeth Martins
Can anyone advise me who to contact for missing deposit. My downline made a deposit. However, the deposit did not post. Thanks
Like · · 46 minutes ago

Encik Khairul (カイ)
Encik Khairul
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Financial Analyst at Profitable Sunrise by Inter Reef Ltd
Studied at Institut Skill-Tech Melaka
Lives in Birmingham, United Kingdom
From Taiping, Perak
About





Encik Khairul report to support@profitablesunrise.com & attach proof of deposit..
13 minutes ago · Like

https://www.facebook.com/profitablesunrisereviewlegit?fref=ts

[Finix]

I wonder if there is any force on earth strong enough to shake her faith in Roman Novak.
She needs a real lesson from the bible:

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below"

[Fendaril]

So do we all. This a very pessimistic view, although it seems to be based on bitter past experience.

There is one positive side. This case is receiving a lot of publicity internationally. By choosing Britain for the registration of Inter Reef Ltd, Profitable Sunrise have also gotten themselves in a country with equally tough laws on the sale of unregistered securities and other financial services. The New Zealand article which goes as far to trace a link with the Director of Inter Reef Ltd and illegal arms deals should serve as a wake up call to anyone who still thinks that the HYIP subculture (or should I call it an "Industry") is just a fun game for those cynics "in the know" to play around with. The fact that so many founders of the schemes do end up unpunished and run with the money is also a clear signal that they are not dumb either. This following on from Zeek Rewards is has a far higher public profile than the previous middle size HYIPs, ergo the public are beginning to receive an education that was not previously available to them. In that sense Bernard Maddoff has done us all a favor. Before he was turned in, most of the investing public did not know what a ponzi even was and that includes some of the newer participants in the money games. Now it forms part of the vocabulary of anyone interested in investments and money games.

The obvious solution to the HYIP problem would be if the enablers have their wings clipped. A few prosecutions of the habitual big promoters of HYIPs and a major clamp down on the payment processors who deal with the US would be a start

Hopefully at least the next big thing will attract a few less followers than the last one as the public becomes more aware of what they are being pimped.

The sad thing is, the amount of planning to successfully start a scheme and get away with it is much less profitable and stable then a legit business.

Its just the illusion of fast bucks that is never realistically materialized. If you could live in a world where all you cared about was the accumulation of overnight fortune that would be one tough life.

I have a lot of research to do with spotting HYIPs. In the mean time, I want to see what happens with PS. As of now, I can log on to my account and still get interest payments.

[Finix]

a major clamp down on the payment processors who deal with the US would be a start
The ones that could be touched are already shut down, e.g., e-gold and EMO. HYIPs use for the most part Liberty Reserve, SolidTrustPay and Perfect Money. Liberty Reserve is in Costa Rica, SolidTrustPay is in Canada and Perfect Money is in Panama.

[JCA777]

From the HYIP scripts.


Yes.

If you've never seen them before, you can see a demo from some companies that sell HYIP scripts.

I just did a search for HYIP scripts and could not believe what I found. A person can start their own HYIP for $145! I wondered where these sites came from! All people have to do is see these to know what they are. Amazing!

Just search: HYIP scripts and you'll be amazed!

[Nancetta]

cs says:
February 26, 2013 at 3:38 pm
...HAS DEBORAH RECEIVED HER FIRST CYCLE $ YET?/


admin (aka 'Amanda' aka 'Quicksilver' on MIN site) says:
March 1, 2013 at 4:16 am
@cs. I believe she said it matures around the 5th of March…we’ll watch it closely


John says:
February 26, 2013 at 2:27 pm
...Have you heard of Banners Broker, and if so what do you think about them. I have put some money in them, and I have also put money in Sunrise..
Take note...Banners Broker AND Profitable Sunrise....


Amanda says:
February 27, 2013 at 3:11 am
@John. I have heard of them and have friends that have joined, as well. I suppose I should say I’m undecided...
Her 'friend' is Deborah (aka Hearthworth9). They have been 'friends in SCAMS for quite some time...and heeere she comes...look below...


Deborah says:
March 1, 2013 at 1:45 am
Hi gang,
Next week my contract ends and then I start again. I am very excited to make a large withdrawal.
I am in Banners Brokers, it takes some work to build and learn as they keep fine tuning things. There are rooms in skype dedicated to Banners Brokers so contact me if you are needing additional support (heartworth9 is my contact name in skype).

If this doesn't tell you that SCAMMERS are everywhere...in everything...well then...

[EagleOne]

Take note...Banners Broker AND Profitable Sunrise....


Her 'friend' is Deborah (aka Hearthworth9). They have been 'friends in SCAMS for quite some time...and heeere she comes...look below...



If this doesn't tell you that SCAMMERS are everywhere...in everything...well then...

I am just shocked that Amanda/QS is not in Profitable Sunrise. I thought she would have been all over it given her past track record of these type of Ponzi's. Guess she didn't believe it was blessed by God.

[Nancetta]

I am just shocked that Amanda/QS is not in Profitable Sunrise. I thought she would have been all over it given her past track record of these type of Ponzi's. Guess she didn't believe it was blessed by God.

Oh, 'Amanda' is in Profitable Sunrise...She is 'neck-deep' in it:


Amanda says:
June 16, 2012 at 12:11 am
I decided to put a little in this program...

Amanda says:
June 19, 2012 at 3:23 am
I am so impressed with the Admin for this fine program...

Amanda says:
June 20, 2012 at 10:06 pm
More payouts from Profitable Sunrise:
06/19/2012 00:45 99996824 U3508025 (Profitable S…)

Amanda says:
June 24, 2012 at 5:29 am
More payouts from ProfitableSunrise:
06/23/2012 06:45 100640409 U3508025 (Profitable S…)
06/21/2012 00:44 100314044 U3508025 (Profitable S…)
...............................


Amanda says:
February 20, 2013 at 1:04 am
For informational purposes:
I have a small personal deposit

It's Banners Brokers that she is 'claiming' not to be in...BUT she has given up her 'GOOD FRIEND' Deborah aka heartworth9 who is neck-deep in BB and PS...

Don't'cha just luv scammers? They will save their a$$ LONG before they will save yours...

[Merchant of Truth]

It seems there was a big NJF Pow-Wow today and one of the group has posted this on FB. Read carefully.

CEASE AND DECEASE! IS NANCI JO ALREADY IN WITNESS PROTECTION?

"GREED IS A DISEASE" (You can't make this stuff up:shocked:)

A SUMMARY OF THIS MORNINGS WEBINAR FROM NANCI JO FRAZER AND TEAM

"Hush little investors, Uncle Roman says everything will be OK"

Greetings:
Ralph Yerkes, a Wall Street Financier and member of Profitable Sun Rise discussed the fact that PSR IS NOT a Ponzi Scheme. A Ponzi Scheme needs more and more new money coming in so that payments can be made for those who's contracts are maturing. Remember: Roman Novak stated from the very beginning that the Long Haul would only last till March 1, 2013 and he stuck with his word. Ponzi Schemes use dead lines to create a frenzie and thus generate even more money. Our Long Haul Program is OVER!!! Those people who are in it will get rewarded accordingly when their contract matures. On April 1st Roman Novak stated he will honor all the Easter Gifts that are due. (Ponzi Schemes DO NOT do this)
We as a group ARE NOT to use the words: Investment, return on investment. Rather: We as affiliates provide Loans to Roman and he is the man that invests. Security laws prevent us from using the words: Investments and return on investments. Please DO NOT send emails that share those words; rather, talk to your person you are referring to the program one on one. PLEASE...........DO NOT PUT ANYTHING ON YOU TUBE PROMOTING PSR. THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE NO, NO!!!
Do not get alarmed with my next statement: The State of North Carolina gave Profitable Sun Rise a Desist and Decease Order NOT TO OFFER ANY MORE PSR OPPORTUNITIES TO PEOPLE IN THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA. Roman Novak put a statement on our Webinar that said: We assure you that Profitable Sun Rise is OK and in Control of the situation. We will issue an official up date soon. God bless you all. Roman Novak.
The main complaint was that PSR is still found on the website.
There will be NO Chairman's Call next Tuesday night. Nanci Jo Frazer is now on a long needed vacation with her family.
With the pay out of the Easter Gift PSR will be holding back on calls, and other activities BECAUSE they are revamping their websites so they too are compliant, 100%.
The Private Plan will continue to be offered so select your affiliates carefully. Invite in ONLY people with sound character and who truly have a heart to want to make a difference in other peoples lives. GREED is a disease; don't get that disease!!!
GOOD NEWS!! Nanci Jo Frazer's Group is being RENEWED by Roman Novak.
If you have an issue with your PSR account or accounts please send your problem to: support@profitablesunrise.com
If you have an unresolved problem send your email to: njfdirect@gmail.com
Bank wire issues should be sent to: Bank@ProfitableSunRise.com

DO NOT send emails to Nanci Jo Frazer (SHE IS ON VACATION) and DO NOT send emails to:
Rev. Jon Simmons. HE IS WORKING FULL TIME ON THE WEBSITES REVISIONS AND CAN NOT BE INTERRUPTED.
(We need to honor these two people so they can get their jobs done so we can enjoy our program for years and years to come)

Comments were made that a SMALL number of people were on this call this morning and Rev. Jon Simmons asked that all of us on the call would help remind our team what was talked about. Have a GREAT week end folks.

And the Beat Goes On..........:butt_kisser:

[Fat City, LA]

It seems there was a big NJF Pow-Wow today and one of the group has posted this on FB. Read carefully.

CEASE AND DECEASE! IS NANCI JO ALREADY IN WITNESS PROTECTION?

"GREED IS A DISEASE" (You can't make this stuff up:shocked:)

A SUMMARY OF THIS MORNINGS WEBINAR FROM NANCI JO FRAZER AND TEAM

Greetings:
Ralph Yerkes, a Wall Street Financier and member of Profitable Sun Rise discussed the fact that PSR IS NOT a Ponzi Scheme. A Ponzi Scheme needs more and more new money coming in so that payments can be made for those who's contracts are maturing. Remember: Roman Novak stated from the very beginning that the Long Haul would only last till March 1, 2013 and he stuck with his word. Ponzi Schemes use dead lines to create a frenzie and thus generate even more money. Our Long Haul Program is OVER!!! Those people who are in it will get rewarded accordingly when their contract matures. On April 1st Roman Novak stated he will honor all the Easter Gifts that are due. (Ponzi Schemes DO NOT do this)
We as a group ARE NOT to use the words: Investment, return on investment. Rather: We as affiliates provide Loans to Roman and he is the man that invests. Security laws prevent us from using the words: Investments and return on investments. Please DO NOT send emails that share those words; rather, talk to your person you are referring to the program one on one. PLEASE...........DO NOT PUT ANYTHING ON YOU TUBE PROMOTING PSR. THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE NO, NO!!!
Do not get alarmed with my next statement: The State of North Carolina gave Profitable Sun Rise a Desist and Decease Order NOT TO OFFER ANY MORE PSR OPPORTUNITIES TO PEOPLE IN THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA. Roman Novak put a statement on our Webinar that said: We assure you that Profitable Sun Rise is OK and in Control of the situation. We will issue an official up date soon. God bless you all. Roman Novak.
The main complaint was that PSR is still found on the website.
There will be NO Chairman's Call next Tuesday night. Nanci Jo Frazer is now on a long needed vacation with her family.
With the pay out of the Easter Gift PSR will be holding back on calls, and other activities BECAUSE they are revamping their websites so they too are compliant, 100%.
The Private Plan will continue to be offered so select your affiliates carefully. Invite in ONLY people with sound character and who truly have a heart to want to make a difference in other peoples lives. GREED is a disease; don't get that disease!!!
GOOD NEWS!! Nanci Jo Frazer's Group is being RENEWED by Roman Novak.
If you have an issue with your PSR account or accounts please send your problem to: support@profitablesunrise.com
If you have an unresolved problem send your email to: njfdirect@gmail.com
Bank wire issues should be sent to: Bank@ProfitableSunRise.com

DO NOT send emails to Nanci Jo Frazer (SHE IS ON VACATION) and DO NOT send emails to:
Rev. Jon Simmons. HE IS WORKING FULL TIME ON THE WEBSITES REVISIONS AND CAN NOT BE INTERRUPTED.
(We need to honor these two people so they can get their jobs done so we can enjoy our program for years and years to come)

Comments were made that a SMALL number of people were on this call this morning and Rev. Jon Simmons asked that all of us on the call would help remind our team what was talked about. Have a GREAT week end folks.

And the Beat Goes On..........:butt_kisser:

What a coincidence she is gone at this very time....................

Nancy takes all their money as leader. Cant be bothered on vacation to even comment? Where is she the moon?
How rude, If I was on here calls and believing her mixing PS and religion, I would be furious. No comment needed?

[littleroundman]

Anyone who thinks Nanci Jo Frazer VOLUNTARILY removed any mention of Profitable Sunrise from her website as well as posting the disclaimer distancing both her and the Focus Up Ministries Inc 501c from Profitable Sunrise really needs to visit their doctor for a full reality check.

The times they are a changin'

With the advent of sites such as REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com) and non profits like Eagle Research Associates (http://www.eagleresearchassociates.org/) and their volunteer members, staying "under the radar" is not as easy as as it once may have been.

HYIP ponzi players, organizers or Nanci Jo Frazer type enablers can no longer bank on their particular fraud remaining unnoticed for long enough for them to rake in the money unchallenged.

[EagleOne]

It seems there was a big NJF Pow-Wow today and one of the group has posted this on FB. Read carefully.

CEASE AND DECEASE! IS NANCI JO ALREADY IN WITNESS PROTECTION?

"GREED IS A DISEASE" (You can't make this stuff up:shocked:)

A SUMMARY OF THIS MORNINGS WEBINAR FROM NANCI JO FRAZER AND TEAM

"Hush little investors, Uncle Roman says everything will be OK"

Greetings:
Ralph Yerkes, a Wall Street Financier and member of Profitable Sun Rise discussed the fact that PSR IS NOT a Ponzi Scheme. A Ponzi Scheme needs more and more new money coming in so that payments can be made for those who's contracts are maturing. Remember: Roman Novak stated from the very beginning that the Long Haul would only last till March 1, 2013 and he stuck with his word. Ponzi Schemes use dead lines to create a frenzie and thus generate even more money. Our Long Haul Program is OVER!!! Those people who are in it will get rewarded accordingly when their contract matures. On April 1st Roman Novak stated he will honor all the Easter Gifts that are due. (Ponzi Schemes DO NOT do this)
We as a group ARE NOT to use the words: Investment, return on investment. Rather: We as affiliates provide Loans to Roman and he is the man that invests. Security laws prevent us from using the words: Investments and return on investments. Please DO NOT send emails that share those words; rather, talk to your person you are referring to the program one on one. PLEASE...........DO NOT PUT ANYTHING ON YOU TUBE PROMOTING PSR. THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE NO, NO!!!
Do not get alarmed with my next statement: The State of North Carolina gave Profitable Sun Rise a Desist and Decease Order NOT TO OFFER ANY MORE PSR OPPORTUNITIES TO PEOPLE IN THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA. Roman Novak put a statement on our Webinar that said: We assure you that Profitable Sun Rise is OK and in Control of the situation. We will issue an official up date soon. God bless you all. Roman Novak.
The main complaint was that PSR is still found on the website.
There will be NO Chairman's Call next Tuesday night. Nanci Jo Frazer is now on a long needed vacation with her family.
With the pay out of the Easter Gift PSR will be holding back on calls, and other activities BECAUSE they are revamping their websites so they too are compliant, 100%.
The Private Plan will continue to be offered so select your affiliates carefully. Invite in ONLY people with sound character and who truly have a heart to want to make a difference in other peoples lives. GREED is a disease; don't get that disease!!!
GOOD NEWS!! Nanci Jo Frazer's Group is being RENEWED by Roman Novak.
If you have an issue with your PSR account or accounts please send your problem to: support@profitablesunrise.com
If you have an unresolved problem send your email to: njfdirect@gmail.com
Bank wire issues should be sent to: Bank@ProfitableSunRise.com

DO NOT send emails to Nanci Jo Frazer (SHE IS ON VACATION) and DO NOT send emails to:
Rev. Jon Simmons. HE IS WORKING FULL TIME ON THE WEBSITES REVISIONS AND CAN NOT BE INTERRUPTED.
(We need to honor these two people so they can get their jobs done so we can enjoy our program for years and years to come)

Comments were made that a SMALL number of people were on this call this morning and Rev. Jon Simmons asked that all of us on the call would help remind our team what was talked about. Have a GREAT week end folks.

And the Beat Goes On..........:butt_kisser:

Well if the NC Secretary of State did issue a "desist and decease order," then we will soon find out if God is blessing PS if Roman can raise it from the dead.

[EagleOne]

It is really fun to watch all the shills and players trying their hardest to downplay the NC Secretary of State action. They all know this is the beginning of the end, and they are doing all they can to try to keep the newbies calm. What you have to focus on is that not one "promoter" of PS is defending PS in this action by the NC Secretary of State. They are nowhere to be found. They know this is the death knell for PS and want to be as far away from this as possible when it explodes. Their silence speaks volumes to all of who expose these Ponzi's but to the newbie they have no clue why this fact is important. Well, they will once I get done telling them on the other forums.

Can't have the promoters defending PS now. After all, it hurts recruting for their next Ponzi de Jour.

[littleroundman]

Getting "newbie" members is the one thing a HYIP ponzi fraud has to do on a regular basis or it simply cannot survive, much less grow.

Forget about pimps, shills and HYIP ponzi players and their arguments, the average man/woman in the street will run a mile from anything which even has a hint of illegality about it, ESPECIALLY when that hint has an official cease and desist action behind it.

It may not be THE fatal blow to Profitable Sunrise, but, rest assured, Profitable Sunrise is now officially on life support.

[PPBlog]

. . . so that payments can be made for those who's contracts are maturing . . .

As is typical in HYIP scams, the members are confessing that Profitable Sunrise is selling unregistered securities as investment contracts.


We as a group ARE NOT to use the words: Investment, return on investment. Rather: We as affiliates provide Loans

Could have come straight from the ASD or Legisi playbooks. The 2010 indictment against ASD's Andy Bowdoin even quotes him laying out the linguistic charade for his $119 million scam. (The 2008 forfeiture action in the civil case quotes an ASD cheerleader, who was speaking to an undercover agent, laying out about the same story that the Profitable Sunrise apologist now is using. Meanwhile, there is a transcript in the Legisi case in which operator Gregory N. McKnight was telling two undercover agents that he was in the "loan" business.

The Legisi scam gathered about $72 million.

PPBlog

[littleroundman]

We as affiliates provide Loans

To US citizens on a recurring commercial basis without fulfilling the necessary legal requirements.

[Finix]

I just did a search for HYIP scripts and could not believe what I found. A person can start their own HYIP for $145! I wondered where these sites came from! All people have to do is see these to know what they are. Amazing!

Just search: HYIP scripts and you'll be amazed!
Don't get too excited. It's just a script that everyone in the industry will recognize as cheap and won't invest with you. Successful HYIPs use custom scripts.

You also need to host this thing somewhere. A normal host will suspend you. BlockDos is expensive, BlackLotus has a bad reputation, etc. Ideally you want to host it on your own servers.

There are other expenses as well.

[Fendaril]

God seems to be blessing PS a lot. They already have a cease and desist order in NC.

[Finix]

They already have a cease and desist order in NC.
They can slap a notice on the site - we don't do business with NC residents. If you are from NC, please don't participate in our offer.

[Finix]

When notices from other states appear, they can do the same for other states. When notice from the Feds appears, they can exclude U.S. altogether. Formally, they will have complied with the orders. Meanwhile, they can go on. The only question is whether they want to or not.

[Former Player]

I am sensing that PS promoters are getting very nervous. This why they are suddenly taking down videos

and putting up disclaimers. THEY ARE LIABLE FOR YOUR LOSS! If you are in PS research who your team leaders

are. When the program fails you have a easy lawsuit to win against the promoter. Take screen shots of

their promotional pages etc. Save all of the emails and updates you get from team leaders. Start looking

now for an attorney! You want to make some easy money? This will be very easy for you.

[JCA777]

Don't get too excited. It's just a script that everyone in the industry will recognize as cheap and won't invest with you. Successful HYIPs use custom scripts.

You also need to host this thing somewhere. A normal host will suspend you. BlockDos is expensive, BlackLotus has a bad reputation, etc. Ideally you want to host it on your own servers.

There are other expenses as well.

Hey, I don't want to start anything! I was just amazed at how readily available these things are. You don't even need a "secret handshake" or anything to find them! If people find these, why can't they realize that the other "programs" are just the same?
Probably a dumb question.

[Finix]

If people find these, why can't they realize that the other "programs" are just the same?
What makes you think they don't realize it?


I was just amazed at how readily available these things are.
The HYIP scripts? Why wouldn't they be? It's not illegal to sell software.

[Finix]

When the program fails you have a easy lawsuit to win against the promoter.
Are you going to sue for $80? It will cost you more to sue than you will get out of it. Now if you bet a farm and your upline has money, then you are in luck. There is something to be said about carefully choosing an upline from the start.

[Former Player]

You are correct. However even if one were to lose just a few thousand they could sue for pain and suffering due to financial hardship. An attorney friend told me these would be easy cases to litigate since the promoters are selling and marketing unregistered securities.


Are you going to sue for $80? It will cost you more to sue than you will get out of it. Now if you bet a farm and your upline has money, then you are in luck. There is something to be said about carefully choosing an upline from the start.

[Finix]

An attorney friend told me these would be easy cases to litigate since the promoters are selling and marketing unregistered securities.
If it were easy, we would have seen a lot of those during the decades online HYIPs existed. It would have been a whole industry of its own by now - sue the upline to become rich. I have a feeling it's a lot harder than people make it sound.

[Former Player]

I think that once a precedent is set many will follow. It simply has not been tried yet. Hopefully someone will give this a try. It will open the floodgates.


If it were easy, we would have seen a lot of those during the decades online HYIPs existed. It would have been a whole industry of its own by now - sue the upline to become rich. I have a feeling it's a lot harder than people make it sound.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

You are correct. However even if one were to lose just a few thousand they could sue for pain and suffering due to financial hardship. An attorney friend told me these would be easy cases to litigate since the promoters are selling and marketing unregistered securities.

You've raised an interesting point. It is rare that people sue their sponsors, but is certainly something that could start to become a trend if people lose their money and there is not enough in the receiver's "pot" to go round. The ASD members were lucky. The ones that claimed received their funds back. the Zeek members are not so lucky, but are receiving some. It is highly likely that the PS members will receive even less, or even nothing if it implodes (or "Roman" runs off with the money before it is shut down).

If this was to happen there would be a number of consequences.

The first is obvious.

1)People who are basically honest, but who have really never done their homework before joining and promoting these schemes, will be very very cautious about joining anything in the future unless they know it is legal and they are therefore safe, so that will reduce the number of wide eyed newbies and some of the kool aid drinkers.

2) The players will find themselves under very heavy pressure from their downlines and many will be sued, so they will start flying high above the radar as far as law enforcement and gullible members are concerned. They will find it harder to flit from one scheme to another as smoothly as before.

3) A lot of members of the schemes will discover that they dont know who their sponsor or their sponsor's sponsor really is. After months or even years of having trust and/or loyalty to a name on an email, telephone, or on their Skype list, they will find that the person who they thought they "knew" no longer takes their calls and then come to the realization that they don't have a clue where they live or how to contact them, or even if that was their real name.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

If it were easy, we would have seen a lot of those during the decades online HYIPs existed. It would have been a whole industry of its own by now - sue the upline to become rich. I have a feeling it's a lot harder than people make it sound.

I may be wrong, but I think one of the biggest difficulties that people have deciding to sue their uplines is the relationship they have had with them. They may be friends or family members, or simply professional sponsors who, because of their experience, have built up a relationship with their downlines who then feel they are friends too. But even if it is hard, it may be well worth it for some of those people to put their illusions of "friendship" behind them and get a lawyer.

[PPBlog]

With respect to suing an upline or sponsor . . .

Former members of Bishop Eddie Long's congregation at the New Birth Missionary Baptist megachurch near Atlanta are suing Long for introducing accused Ponzi schemer Ephren Taylor to them. During discovery, attorneys for the plaintiffs found some documents that suggested the church had received a warning that Taylor was running a scam.

Former New Birth members sue Bishop Eddie Long | www.ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/former-new-birth-members-sue-bishop-eddie-long/nWL6m/)

On a side note, Taylor purported to be a "social capitalist." That's more or less the same line the ClubAsteria scammers used. ClubAsteria, BTW, was popular on the same Ponzi boards on which Profitable Sunrise has a presence. The chief ClubAsteria hucksters were veterans of ASD and cash-gifting schemes.

Back in 2008/2009, some ASD members got together and sued Andy Bowdoin for racketeering in a prospective class-action.

There are at least two class-action lawsuits in the wake of Zeek, including one that names "John Does."

One thing the filing of a class-action does is get the attention of the Feds. It is not unusual for a prospective class to assert securities fraud has occurred within an "opportunity" and to go either to state or federal court to file a lawsuit. If the authorities later move, the case might get stayed, pending the resolution of the federal/state charges.

Getting a recovery even if judgments go against the scammers may be iffy in the context of both government actions and class actions brought by harmed investors. That's because the money typically has been dissipated, often in the form of Ponzi payments to insiders and winners. In those cases, a receiver may pursue recovery from the insiders/winners. Of course, the scammers/insiders/winners also may hide money.

Some of the ASD scammers/winners/insiders had started their own scam entities. The "Web Room Lady," for example, appears to have been running a purported "religious" entity in Oregon from her home in Missouri. The Feds seized X number of bank accounts of ASD's scam team.

Some of the ASDers appear to have relied upon advice dispensed by a "sovereign citizen" who is now jailed near Seattle for filing false liens against government officials and for being a felon in possession of firearms. For whatever reason, he took to calling himself a "live abortion" after earlier having advanced a Birther conspiracy theory against the President of the United States.

It's interesting that Profitable Sunrise also is using the word "abortion" in its offering materials.

PPBlog

[Former Player]

Patrick, love the blog man! Promoters like Nancy Jo Frazer and a few other big names are HUGE targets for their flock. They likely made a killing. No matter how PS collapsed, would be easy picking for the losers.


With respect to suing an upline or sponsor . . .

Former members of Bishop Eddie Long's congregation at the New Birth Missionary Baptist megachurch near Atlanta are suing Long for introducing accused Ponzi schemer Ephren Taylor to them. During discovery, attorneys for the plaintiffs found some documents that suggested the church had received a warning that Taylor was running a scam

[PPBlog]

It's interesting that "myriadforce" is over at MMG tring to insult North Carolina regulators by comparing them to "Sheriff Andy" and "Deputy Barney Fife" from the Andy Griffith TV show.

RealScam's LRM often has said the script varies only by degree during the life-cycle of an HYIP scam. Those words again are ringing true with Profitable Sunrise.

The AdSurfDaily apologists compared the lead Ponzi prosecutor to "Gomer Pyle," a character from the Andy Griffith show. Like the would-be insult of "myriadforce" in "defense" of Profitable Sunrise, the would-be insult from the ASD side didn't even make sense: Gomer Pyle, despite his quirkiness as a TV character, was (and is) an icon for integrity and attention to duty.

If the rulings of the judge in the ASD case could be reduced to two words, the words would be "Gomer won."

But even as "myriadforce" tries to insult an entire state on behalf of Profitable Sunrise, he further ventures that "Roman and Profitable Sunrise are as DAVID. The corrupt banking system is as Goliath."

Wouldn't you know? That's just what Andy Bowdoin said when he was trying to raise $500,000 to pay for his criminal defense in the ASD Ponzi case. He was "David"; the government was "Goliath."

Bowdoin's David. v. Goliath message didn't resound with the remaining troops, so Bowdoin tried to sell them into "OneX," which the Feds later described as a scam that followed the Bowdoin-connected AdViewGlobal scam. ASD, AVG and OneX all were Ponzi-board "programs" -- like Zeek and Profitable Sunrise and Legisi.

It's probably not a good idea for Profitable Sunrise apologists to use a perceived Andy Griffith or Barney Fife (or Gomer Pyle) insult in North Carolina, given that old Andy and Barney and Gomer are icons in the state (and across the United States). Heck, there's even an Andy Griffith Museum in the state, and Andy, Barney and Gomer are feted for their integrity. Andy was born in the state and graduated from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. The American people loved their weekly visits to rural North Carolina via the Andy Griffith show in the 1960s.

Beyond that, the faith community in North Carolina is apt not to be keen on the David. v. Goliath talking points that "myriadforce" is rolling out. Lots of people of faith recoil at the notion that churches applaud felonies-in-progress.

In nearby South Carolina, some of the faithful led cheers for the "Three Hebrew Boys" Ponzi schemers. The sentences handed down in that case were the longest in the history of the South Carolina federal courts. Like the ASD case, purported "sovereign citizens" entered the "Three Hebrew Boys" fray, including one or more of the defendants. The "defenders" accused the U.S. Attorney of treason. (The ASD "defenders" accused a federal judge of treason.)

Throughout America, scammers are targeting fraud schemes at people of faith. Some ministers basically are turning a blind eye to fraud at the altar. Some of the stories that have emerged wouldn't sell as fiction.

PPBlog

[wserra]

One thing the filing of a class-action does is get the attention of the Feds.

Another point of a class action - legally, the primary point - is that it makes a lawsuit worth pursuing by aggregating dozens or hundreds of claims which individually would be too small to merit a lawyer's time. The people receiving the "Sue! Sue!" advice will find generally that there is little they can do individually by way of suit. There just isn't enough involved. Put a bunch together, however, and you may find an experienced civil litigator willing to take it on a contingency. If, BTW, you ever speak to a lawyer who tells you that you have a great case but then asks for money up front, inquire about whether the lawyer will do it on a contingency alone. That's the real test. You may find that the lawyer is a lot less enthusiastic if s/he must share the risk.

Another serious disincentive for a lawyer is
the money typically has been dissipated, often in the form of Ponzi payments to insiders and winnersCorrectamundo. Not a lot of point in kicking ass and taking names if there's nothing at the end of the road. Trust me: you can very easily spend more money than you ever recover by chasing assets.

Short moral: 99% of the victims will be unable to find recompense through individual legal action.

[wserra]

Former members of Bishop Eddie Long's congregation at the New Birth Missionary Baptist megachurch near Atlanta are suing Long for introducing accused Ponzi schemer Ephren Taylor to them. During discovery, attorneys for the plaintiffs found some documents that suggested the church had received a warning that Taylor was running a scam.

The SEC agrees (http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2012/2012-62.htm) with the last clause.

[ribshaw]

[QUOTE=wserra;Short moral: 99% of the victims will be unable to find recompense through individual legal action.[/QUOTE]

I question at this point if there is a real "Roman Novak" to go after, but how much is a Nancy Jo or John Shepcroft really making and more importantly worth as a result of these deals? Even at a million or two a year, that is peanuts in the scope of actually trying to litigate and recover assets unless they have a 401Ponzi and other liquid assets that can be attached. It seems when most of these things blow up you are left with 7 luxury cars, 32 watches, a few forged paintings and other than living the good life not much in terms of real assets.

[path2prosperity]

Adlandpro scammers are having a field day with this promotion.

Profitable Sunrise Promoters from Adlandpro. (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=profitable%20sunrise%20adlandpro&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np)

One of the most sickening bits of sales spiel can be seen if you

Type http://www then adlandpro.com/ad/1462694/Profitable-Sunrise.aspx

Quote

"The Founder and CEO of Profitable Sunrise is Roman Novak. He is also an avid supporter of Charity works and loves to help people. We have communicated with him via email on numerous occasions. He is very personable and responsive.
Roman runs the company with his brother Radoslav Novak who is also a lawyer; and apart from the legal issues is responsible for the marketing.
The investment model is based on short-term investments and generates income way greater than most regular investment models do. The business model combines tried and tested investments with certain state-of-the-art innovations that bring the risk of loss to a minimum.
But more importantly, Profitable Sunrise allocates a significant amount of their earnings to charity as there are so many people out there that need help."

[EagleOne]

Now this is just too rich. It seems that a few of the posters at MMG started going after each other and Yippee had to close the thread for a while to let them cool off, and it wasn't even about my posts for once.

But that doesn't mean they haven't been reporting me and trying to get me banned. :RpS_lol: Poor Yippee must be going nuts with everyone reporting my posts they don't like, and are upset that I have not been banned.

But here is what is going to happen with the NC Cease and Desist order. Roman is going to announce that the NC authorities did not want to accept his "proof" PS was properly licensed and registered, and he was not going to do what they wanted him to do to be compliant in NC, he is going to block anyone from NC from participating in PS. It is no big deal and won't effect PS going forward. This news will make all the faithful happy and that they have nothing to worry about. They will use it to say us naysayers/trolls don't know what we are talking about, this proves that PS is legal and Roman knows what he is doing, and they will try to pimp more people into joining and losing their money.

[janzmr]

Now this is just too rich. It seems that a few of the posters at MMG started going after each other and Yippee had to close the thread for a while to let them cool off, and it wasn't even about my posts for once.

But that doesn't mean they haven't been reporting me and trying to get me banned. :RpS_lol: Poor Yippee must be going nuts with everyone reporting my posts they don't like, and are upset that I have not been banned.

But here is what is going to happen with the NC Cease and Desist order. Roman is going to announce that the NC authorities did not want to accept his "proof" PS was properly licensed and registered, and he was not going to do what they wanted him to do to be compliant in NC, he is going to block anyone from NC from participating in PS. It is no big deal and won't effect PS going forward. This news will make all the faithful happy and that they have nothing to worry about. They will use it to say us naysayers/trolls don't know what we are talking about, this proves that PS is legal and Roman knows what he is doing, and they will try to pimp more people into joining and losing their money.

@Eagleone - What I really don't understand is WHY YOU feel you can be God, Judge and Jury over the 'scam' Programs. I think that with as may of these as there have been exposed for what they really are - and yet people continue to join them - that is THEIR Choice. I'm sure they are all big boys & girls and realize the risks involved. What upsets me about what you do (and have done) is that YOU are causing these people to lose whatever monies they put into these programs - even IF they are scams, there is the possibility that some (or more), may have been able to 'ride' a bit longer, and may have possibly been able to recoup some of their monies before it all finally crashed.
I really don't understand WHERE YOU fit in all of this!?!?!

[ProfHenryHiggins]

Janzmr, what would you do if some stranger, let's call him Keith Luck, showed up offering you amazing returns for your payment. And someone else warned you that he was a scammer, yet you still went through with it, only to find out that he was a phony and that you'd just lost it all, possibly even had your identity stolen.

Would you rather not have had any warning, and still fallen for it?

[littleroundman]

Welcome to REALSCAM.com (http://www.realscam.com) Janzmr,

Who is acting as "God, Judge and Jury over the 'scam' Programs" ???

This is an information forum.

There is no compulsion involved, nor is anyone censured for not listening to what is said AND none of us here stand to gain or lose whether people believe us or not.

In fact, our logo makes that point perfectly clear:

http://imageshack.us/a/img690/6947/realogo.jpg

YOU decide.

People are quite at liberty to visit any of the "usual suspect" HYIP ponzi forums and then come here to get both sides of the story.

It's called "freedom of speech"

You chose to use your freedom in an attempt to justify lying about the truth behind HYIP ponzi frauds such as Profitable Sunrise.

We, on the other hand use that same freedom of speech to point out what we believe to be the facts.

Readers then exercise THEIR right to choose for themselves.

No need to complicate things any further than that.

[perthlady]

@Eagleone - What I really don't understand is WHY YOU feel you can be God, Judge and Jury over the 'scam' Programs. I think that with as may of these as there have been exposed for what they really are - and yet people continue to join them - that is THEIR Choice. I'm sure they are all big boys & girls and realize the risks involved. What upsets me about what you do (and have done) is that YOU are causing these people to lose whatever monies they put into these programs - even IF they are scams, there is the possibility that some (or more), may have been able to 'ride' a bit longer, and may have possibly been able to recoup some of their monies before it all finally crashed.
I really don't understand WHERE YOU fit in all of this!?!?!
Ride a bit longer and recoup their monies from WHOM? The new people getting sucked in! The longer it goes on, the more people at the bottom that lose out. It is not right to gain money via deception - this is not simply a game of chance played by those in the know, or there would be no need of the fake back story. These schemes prey on the vulnerable, using "charity" and religion, it's sick. I am sure there are many people grateful to the Ron Eagles of this world for helping them avoid losing their hard earned money and having it possibly used for money laundering and/or financing terrorism.

[EagleOne]

@Eagleone - What I really don't understand is WHY YOU feel you can be God, Judge and Jury over the 'scam' Programs. I think that with as may of these as there have been exposed for what they really are - and yet people continue to join them - that is THEIR Choice. I'm sure they are all big boys & girls and realize the risks involved. What upsets me about what you do (and have done) is that YOU are causing these people to lose whatever monies they put into these programs - even IF they are scams, there is the possibility that some (or more), may have been able to 'ride' a bit longer, and may have possibly been able to recoup some of their monies before it all finally crashed.
I really don't understand WHERE YOU fit in all of this!?!?!

janzmr: Welcome to RS. Please forgive me but where did I say I was God, judge, and jury over scam programs?

And no many do not know what they are joining is a Ponzi. While it is true that the promoters, shills and players do, the newbies don't. And the admin, promoters, shills and players all lie to the newbies making them think it is a real investment program.

If you think these are just innocent money games and no-one gets hurt, you have your head buried in the sand. Trillions of dollars is being stolen worldwide in these innocent money games. People are losing their homes, cars, and their life savings to these innocent money games. People are getting divorced, people do commit suicide from losing their life savings, families are broken up, familites and friends are estranged because of these innocent money games.

I do not tell people what to do with their money. I do warn people they are joining a Ponzi or they are in a Ponzi. What they do with that information is up to them. But they know what it is they are getting themselves into before they join.

When the Ponzi admins start putting the following in BOLD red letters: "THIS IS A PONZI. THERE IS NO TRADING OR INVESTING OF ANY KIND. YOU ARE BETTING YOU CAN GET YOUR MONEY FROM OTHERS JOINING AFTER YOU BEFORE I RUN WITH THE MONEY. PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK." , and the promoters, shills and players say it on the Ponzi forums, then I will stop warning people about these Ponzi's. But we both know that will never happen.

People running these Ponzi's are breaking the law. Anyone who participates in these Ponzi's are breaking the law. I will continue to help law enforcement in any way we can to put these criminals away. I also hope that law enforcement starts putting the major pimps away too in the near future. For if they did, these programs would be far and few between.

As explained by littleroundman, you have the right to say what you say, and I will defend your right to do so. But likewise I have the right to say what I say, and I back mine up with action and facts, not just words.

[EagleOne]

Ride a bit longer and recoup their monies from WHOM? The new people getting sucked in! The longer it goes on, the more people at the bottom that lose out. It is not right to gain money via deception - this is not simply a game of chance played by those in the know, or there would be no need of the fake back story. These schemes prey on the vulnerable, using "charity" and religion, it's sick. I am sure there are many people grateful to the Ron Eagles of this world for helping them avoid losing their hard earned money and having it possibly used for money laundering and/or financing terrorism.

perthlady: Welcome to RS, and thanks for your wise insight into what these Ponzi's are all about. I look forward to your continued contributions to this thread and others here.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

as explained by littleroundman, you have the right to say what you say, and i will defend your right to do so. But likewise i have the right to say what i say, and i back mine up with action and facts, not just words.

3273

bravo!!

[Finix]

@Eagleone - What I really don't understand is WHY YOU feel you can be God, Judge and Jury over the 'scam' Programs. I think that with as may of these as there have been exposed for what they really are - and yet people continue to join them - that is THEIR Choice. I'm sure they are all big boys & girls and realize the risks involved. What upsets me about what you do (and have done) is that YOU are causing these people to lose whatever monies they put into these programs - even IF they are scams, there is the possibility that some (or more), may have been able to 'ride' a bit longer, and may have possibly been able to recoup some of their monies before it all finally crashed.
I really don't understand WHERE YOU fit in all of this!?!?!
Chill. They have the same rights to free speech as you do. They are in disadvantage on public forums as is 'cuz all they can offer are opinions vis-a-vis real transaction IDs for payments.

[littleroundman]

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/4927/ticktock.jpg

Tick tock, tick tock goes the HYIP ponzi clock

How utterly predictable.

First comes news of the cease and desist order

Then comes the flood of "I got paid" posts on the usual suspect HYIP ponzi forums.

Then the truth slowly starts to trickle out.

[Lil Ol' Radical Me]

@Eagleone - What I really don't understand is WHY YOU feel you can be God, Judge and Jury over the 'scam' Programs. I think that with as may of these as there have been exposed for what they really are - and yet people continue to join them - that is THEIR Choice. I'm sure they are all big boys & girls and realize the risks involved. What upsets me about what you do (and have done) is that YOU are causing these people to lose whatever monies they put into these programs - even IF they are scams, there is the possibility that some (or more), may have been able to 'ride' a bit longer, and may have possibly been able to recoup some of their monies before it all finally crashed.
I really don't understand WHERE YOU fit in all of this!?!?!

First of all you are wrong in your assumption that all people go into these schemes knowingly and willingly. The victims /newbies go in believing it is a legal and sustainable scheme because they have been lied to and by some very professional liars.

Secondly, It is not the forums like this that cause people to lose their money. The money games ALWAYS end up with most people losing their money, it is just a question of when and how.

- If the program implodes because there is no new members money to pay the old members, then the new members lose (the old members, including the inner core of promoters will have made their money back several times by then and moved on to the next "greatest thing"

- If the owner runs with the money, then the new members lose (the old members having profited as above)

- If the program is closed down by the authorities. Sometimes this is done while there is still some money to be confiscated and enough is recovered to repay the victims their lost investments - and there is always the possibility of more being recuperated through claw backs. In ASD it was 100% but in others it has been less, and sometimes there is no money to confiscate - just, as said above, a few fast cars to sell. In Zeek, there is not enough money to make the victims whole, but claw backs are in process which will increase the pot to distribute to victims. In the past in other closed down programs people have received cents on the dollar But for the last in, this is the best scenario.

It is not yet known which will be the scenario for the end of Profitable Sunrise, but, without betting the farm on it, I would guess the first or second at Easter.

[littleroundman]

I'm sure they are all big boys & girls and realize the risks involved.

Can I take the opportunity to call "bulls**t" on your assumption ??

[NikSam]

... YOU are causing these people to lose whatever monies they put into these programs - even IF they are scams, there is the possibility that some (or more), may have been able to 'ride' a bit longer, and may have possibly been able to recoup some of their monies before it all finally crashed.
I really don't understand WHERE YOU fit in all of this!?!?!

It is called stealing, if you participate in a scam knowingly, it means you financed it to continue it's operation plus if you profited on it, you stole some victim's money.

[ribshaw]

I'm sure they are all big boys & girls and realize the risks involved.

I would say as a practical matter you do not have a lot of life experience, like having your parents exploited because they started to decline mentally. As people age some become less and less able to make sound decisions, couple this with having what is called a "life savings" it is recipe for disaster. So your $.72 cent interest payments that you proudly tweet about likely came from someone's mother or grandmother who is now bankrupt thanks to (Fill in the blank business opportunity). They were told it was real, and they believed. They same way they will believe they need a new roof, have won the lottery, have a new friend in Nigeria, have a relative in trouble who needs a wire of some cash, have a new "best friend", and on and on.

As a second matter, Roman and others have nothing to worry about if he is in fact making loans as he claims. All the blogging, naysayers, haters, and dreamstealers in the world won't change the fact that people need money to fund their deals, and clearly Roman is the man (or woman) with the money. The only way I see that any of this presents a problem for any of these folks is if their only concern is to recruit new suckers.

Following your logic, we should take down all the stop signs cause people who drive are all big boys and girls who realize the risks in driving.

[Whip]

@Eagleone - What I really don't understand is WHY YOU feel you can be God, Judge and Jury over the 'scam' Programs. I think that with as may of these as there have been exposed for what they really are - and yet people continue to join them - that is THEIR Choice. I'm sure they are all big boys & girls and realize the risks involved. What upsets me about what you do (and have done) is that YOU are causing these people to lose whatever monies they put into these programs - even IF they are scams, there is the possibility that some (or more), may have been able to 'ride' a bit longer, and may have possibly been able to recoup some of their monies before it all finally crashed.
I really don't understand WHERE YOU fit in all of this!?!?!

And when they see it is a scam can decide not to join. So to quote yourself: What I really don't understand is WHY YOU feel you can be God, Judge and Jury over the 'scam' Programs. in this case in reference to people warning other people about getting ripped off. You got in too late. No one's fault but your own. As you said....it was your choice.

[EagleOne]

Hmm, guess Yippee is going to keep the thread closed for at least 24 hours at MMG. Someone must have really ticked her off to keep it closed this long. Usually the closure is for about 12 hours if my memory serves me correctly.

I am waiting to see just how long Nanci Jo Frazer stays on vacation. Kind of tells you how much she cares about her over 20,000 members she got into this Pozni doesn't it being MIA at this point in time. What has been fun to watch is her team trying to sanitize all of her videos and text on her websites, and then from all in her group who used her videos on their sites and posts on YouTube of her videos. I see that John Shepcoff finally took the rest of his PS videos down. This has got be hurting recruiting big-time for all those using YouTube videos to recruit.

One thing for sure, when you can't recruit to keep enough new people joining so they can pay the early ones in, the Ponzi is going to go down. Now the only question is how long before Roman pulls the plug? He can't comply with the NC Cease & Desist Order to provide proof he is legal, so he has to be gone before that due date. So will it be the end of this week or the week of the 18th, or will he try to stretch it to the week of the 25th? There is no way he will be operating after the 27th of March, D-Day for the NC demand, and of course his big payment on April Fool's day.

[Finix]

It's a good thing they got rules on MMG. Here one off-topic post feeds everyone, including the admins.

[fishbay]

It's a good thing they got rules on MMG. Here one off-topic post feeds everyone, including the admins.


Well Now isn't this speacial...

http://www.wealthcreationsnetwork.com/NJF-ProSun/03-02-2013_ImportantProSunCall.mp4

[Finix]

Is this Nanci?

Donate (http://www.focusupministries.org/Donate.html)

Yep, a businessman doesn't come close to a member of the clergy when it comes to fleecing the flock. But that's nothing new, folks.

[Finix]

She is a real person. With money. Her downline can sue her ass and FU ministries (what a name!) when PS goes down.

[Fendaril]

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/4927/ticktock.jpg

Tick tock, tick tock goes the HYIP ponzi clock

How utterly predictable.

First comes news of the cease and desist order

Then comes the flood of "I got paid" posts on the usual suspect HYIP ponzi forums.

Then the truth slowly starts to trickle out.


People's accounts have been getting 'blocked' long before the cease and desist order. I even quoted a post from an MMG member a few pages back when it started happening.

You don't get a response from Roman unless he thinks you are going to thrust thousands of dollars of your savings into the scam.

[Fendaril]

Is this Nanci?

Donate (http://www.focusupministries.org/Donate.html)

Yep, a businessman doesn't come close to a member of the clergy when it comes to fleecing the flock. But that's nothing new, folks.

Nanci Jo Frazier is going to fall off of roof of the palace that she built for herself if she is really a thief, just be patient. Nobody is smart enough to outwit ancient wisdom,especially when they defraud in the name of God.

[Finix]

Nanci Jo Frazier is going to fall off of roof of the palace that she built for herself if she is really a thief, just be patient. Nobody is smart enough to outwit ancient wisdom,especially when they defraud in the name of God.
Are you for real? Preachers are master emotional manipulators, there are no better in the world. She is going to paint Roman as the devil, play the victim and the same people she fleeced in the name of God are going to feel bad for her and donate more money.

[EagleOne]

Well Now isn't this speacial...

http://www.wealthcreationsnetwork.com/NJF-ProSun/03-02-2013_ImportantProSunCall.mp4


One of my favorite lines, and there are many, from this audio clip was that by Roman not accepting money after 2/28 for the long haul program proved PS was not a Ponzi. How? Because Ponzi's need new money to keep going. He kept to his word he would not accept new money after 2/28 for the long haul and he did.

OK, let's follow that logic. If that is true, then he doesn't need anyone new joining and investing in his other programs either. I don't see him announcing he will no longer take investments for any of his other programs. Talk about being delusional.

One of the longest smoke and mirrors spiel I have heard in a long time that took so much time to say nothing.

I also love how now you are not investing but "loaning" money to Roman. Hmm, only took them 15 months to come to that conclusion. Maybe some of these geniuses should read the Howey Test from the Supreme Court to see how "loaning" is "investing." Oops!

What is scary is that Ralph Yerkes, a claimed Wall Street Financier, was on this tape telling everyone PS is a real and legitimate company and not a Ponzi. I would hate to be one of his clients with this kind of due diligence. What is truly scary is they believe this malarkey.

[Merchant of Truth]

I would say as a practical matter you do not have a lot of life experience, like having your parents exploited because they started to decline mentally. As people age some become less and less able to make sound decisions, couple this with having what is called a "life savings" it is recipe for disaster. So your $.72 cent interest payments that you proudly tweet about likely came from someone's mother or grandmother who is now bankrupt thanks to (Fill in the blank business opportunity). They were told it was real, and they believed. They same way they will believe they need a new roof, have won the lottery, have a new friend in Nigeria, have a relative in trouble who needs a wire of some cash, have a new "best friend", and on and on.

As a second matter, Roman and others have nothing to worry about if he is in fact making loans as he claims. All the blogging, naysayers, haters, and dreamstealers in the world won't change the fact that people need money to fund their deals, and clearly Roman is the man (or woman) with the money. The only way I see that any of this presents a problem for any of these folks is if their only concern is to recruit new suckers.

Following your logic, we should take down all the stop signs cause people who drive are all big boys and girls who realize the risks in driving.

Excellent post! It is sad to consider the real damage done to real people who are scammed by these serial criminals and cons.

If Roman Novak is actually making loans with the money he is taking in, then I am the real Easter Bunny!

Notice that not one of the "leaders" of PS have ever said " I (or my Certified Accountant) looked at Inter Reef's Audited Financial Statements, registrations and his qualifications and he proved to me that he really is in the loan business."
Of course Roman never posted any financial due diligence. It seems no one could be bothered to ask. Unbelievable.
There is no real CV for Roman that anyone could research and verify.
Did NJF, a registered non-profit corporation not retain a lawyer before leading the flock into this? No evidence of that.

No, Roman just sets out to raise $1.5 billion and make all of the believers rich with insane compounding interest rates.
Laws? Regulations? Due Diligence? Credentials? US Banks? I must be crazy to even ask.
But..but....it's NOT A PONZI.

Just wire your hard earned money to The Czech Republic, Russia or Cypress and everything will be OK. Trust Roman.

Trust NJF and all of the rest of the uncredentialed clowns that promote these schemes. Lord have Mercy!

Assuming that PS goes down in flames in the next 30-60 days...people should understand:

The promoters that make themselves and Roman rich can be held accoutable in civil and criminal courts.
Promoting any illegal behavior for profit. Call it what you want but it is actionable. These people are directly responsible for the losses of others.

I say throw the book at them all. I don't have "standing" as I did not invest in this BS deal or I would fiile the actions myself. Maybe EageOne has an idea to share.

C'mon Roman and his henchmen! Bring it on, baby. You bring your "best defense" and I will pay for the ride in the cop car!

It's time for people to start naming names of the cons who make garbage like PS go. Call out the losers and go after them.

Roman's Easter Gift to so many tens of thousands will be a ROTTEN EGG and the only LONG HAUL I hope for is his LONG STINT IN FEDERAL PRISON.

There! I have exercised my Freedom of Speech.:watching_you:

Bidding for the complete set of Nanci Joe Frazer videos and slideshows will begin when she is back from "vacation."
This is a collectors item sure to be voted into the Ponzi Hall of Shame.
Do you think she will autograph them?
Will they compound in value every day?

Proceeds from this auction of scammer's memorobilia will go to Eagle Research Associates.

[ProfHenryHiggins]

Wall Street? Is there a Wall Street in Eaqle, Idaho? That's where the only "Ralph Yerkes" I see in the financial industry is, and he looks to be real estate and insurance, not stocks and bonds.

Of course, there could be other Ralph Yerkes' who aren't coming up on an initial check.

[Fendaril]

Excellent post! It is sad to consider the real damage done to real people who are scammed by these serial criminals and cons.

If Roman Novak is actually making loans with the money he is taking in, then I am the real Easter Bunny!

Notice that not one of the "leaders" of PS have ever said " I (or my Certified Accountant) looked at Inter Reef's Audited Financial Statements, registrations and his qualifications and he proved to me that he really is in the loan business."
Of course Roman never posted any financial due diligence. It seems no one could be bothered to ask. Unbelievable.
There is no real CV for Roman that anyone could research and verify.
Did NJF, a registered non-profit corporation not retain a lawyer before leading the flock into this? No evidence of that.

No, Roman just sets out to raise $1.5 billion and make all of the believers rich with insane compounding interest rates.
Laws? Regulations? Due Diligence? Credentials? US Banks? I must be crazy to even ask.
But..but....it's NOT A PONZI.

Just wire your hard earned money to The Czech Republic, Russia or Cypress and everything will be OK. Trust Roman.

Trust NJF and all of the rest of the uncredentialed clowns that promote these schemes. Lord have Mercy!

Assuming that PS goes down in flames in the next 30-60 days...people should understand:

The promoters that make themselves and Roman rich can be held accoutable in civil and criminal courts.
Promoting any illegal behavior for profit. Call it what you want but it is actionable. These people are directly responsible for the losses of others.

I say throw the book at them all. I don't have "standing" as I did not invest in this BS deal or I would fiile the actions myself. Maybe EageOne has an idea to share.

C'mon Roman and his henchmen! Bring it on, baby. You bring your "best defense" and I will pay for the ride in the cop car!

It's time for people to start naming names of the cons who make garbage like PS go. Call out the losers and go after them.

Roman's Easter Gift to so many tens of thousands will be a ROTTEN EGG and the only LONG HAUL I hope for is his LONG STINT IN FEDERAL PRISON.

There! I have exercised my Freedom of Speech.:watching_you:

Bidding for the complete set of Nanci Joe Frazer videos and slideshows will begin when she is back from "vacation."
This is a collectors item sure to be voted into the Ponzi Hall of Shame.
Do you think she will autograph them?
Will they compound in value every day?

Proceeds from this auction of scammer's memorobilia will go to Eagle Research Associates.

That is why it is a secret group that is 'invitation only', you scammed yourself basically.

[Finix]

That is why it is a secret group that is 'invitation only', you scammed yourself basically.
Those are the real scammers, not players. Players just ride the damn things for a few wins and adrenaline rush.

[Fat City, LA]

3 big picture truths

1)Anyone legit in Romans position would inundated Eagle-Lyndell with lawsuits. If you cant face discovery process, you let Eagle go.

2)Anyone capable of this kind of legal return would be sitting in London, NY, Tokyo, etc managing billions.

3)Admin goes on and on about Christ Child, etc=NEVER in the history on income opps//hyip has the religious type been legit.

If he was a true man of god & this $ was going to make real changes in developing nations........Roman is furious w/Eagle and whats in these forums=injunctions, press releases, etc are the answer.
The NC cease and desist? Roman is on offensive vs false charges today if legit........Instead Roman puts out 1 line facebook sentence, his henchwoman is on vacation?

[Rumsfield]

fishbay, thank you for posting that webinar. When I listened to it I had a flashback to Troy Dooly reporting on Zeek Rewards. Specifically when the North Carolina State Employee Credit Union referred to Zeek as a fraudulent company on 8/2/2012 via e-mail. Of course that story was shot down by Troy - Breaking Zeek Rewards News: Rex Venture Group COO Responds To NCSECU | MLM Help Desk (http://mlmhelpdesk.com/breaking-zeek-rewards-news-rex-venture-group-coo-responds-to-ncsecu/#.UTVUp6J_Dj4). He actually thought Zeek would sue the NCSECU and win a court case. Then there was the North Carolina Department of Justice publicly issuing a Civil Investigative Demand (CID) on Zeek on 8/7/2012. Again no worries and actually Troy said he knew was probably happen. He thought the CID would put to rest the false claims that Zeek was a ponzi - The Facts of NC AG Investigation & Zeek Rewards Recording | MLM Help Desk (http://mlmhelpdesk.com/breaking-zeek-rewards-news-the-facts-behind-the-nc-doj-investigation-zeek-rewards-recording/#.UTVVD6J_Dj4). Well ten days later Zeek was shut down by the SEC. I can assure you that the temporary cease and desist order is the tip of the iceberg. Profitable Sunrise will be shut down very soon. All of the false propaganda will be to no avail just like it was not with Zeek Rewards. Time is ticking and the firework show is about to begin.