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littleroundman
09-10-2012, 07:53 PM
Yet another HYIP ponzi scam aimed squarely at ex Zeeklers has hit the 'net.

The HYIP ponzi "Profitable Sunrise" comes complete with claimed interest rates of from 1.6% to 2% per DAY, unidentified "charitable causes" and even claims members contributions are "insured by default" whatever the heck that means.

Strictly a desperadoes only HYIP ponzi scam.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc153/thelittleroundman/Scams/profit-2.jpg

path2prosperity
09-11-2012, 02:31 AM
There is a lot of digging that we can do here. Unfortunately I have to work today but I have made a few notes for starters.

Profitable Sunrise (http://www.profitablesunrise.com/).

Owned by Roman Novak who claims that his brother Radoslav Novak is a lawyer, Ruth Ellington is their accountant and Nosuke Koyama is the technical support expert.

Based in London to provide short term loans to companies in USA? What is their Company registration number and what is their VAT registratioin number. Nothing about those requirements mentioned in Profitable Sunrise Sales Spie (http://loans.profitablesunrise.com/)l.

Selling Skinny Body Care (https://plus.google.com/115482725499177233642/posts/75fzJvPZs8v) products not Financial Services

Hawked on TalkGold (http://www.talkgold.com/forum/r343468-.html), MMG (http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Profitablesunrise-Profi-t391093.html&pid=7216926&st=1890#entry7216926)and Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/ProfitableSunrise)

Hawked by leading pimps including Faith Sloane (http://faithsloan.com/tag/profitable-sunrise/)

cardiobeam
11-01-2012, 12:34 AM
Profitable Sunrise is not a Company. It is the Charitable platform of a very successful Collateral Lenders group called Intereef Ltd that handles up to $400 million dollars in bridge loans. Intereef Ltd. is a licensed and registered Corporation based in the UK with one of their offices office based in London, England. They started their business 10 years ago with a check cashing business in the USA under a different name. (The banking industry crashed and no longer offered short term loans in the USA so many wealthy investors gathered together in private groups worldwide to form Private Lending Groups.) Six years ago Roman Novak and his associates entered that world as well. They offer short term bridge loans (or up front funding) to businesses backed by hard real estate and /or insurance to this day. In 2009 they decided to start a Charitable Platform to allow smaller investors to participate withing Private Groups for the purpose of fundraising for humanitarian projects under the name of Profitable Sunrise. This is not an MLM nor a Direct Selling Company. In 2011 they registered and moved their operation to the UK making it much easier They do not accept distributors, independent contractors or affiliate sales people as there are no products. Individuals who participate rent their resources for a set period of time and can be reimbursed fully within 47 days or support the bridge loan programs for up to 240 business days. They have an excellent reputation with all who participate. No complaints anywhere form any participants in three years? Roman Novak is in no way connected with any other program and does not want to be categorized as one of the HYIP programs that force you to buy advertising packs, bids, or any products and then does not return your principal deposit. All participating with his program receive ALL principal and increases back at the end of their term. This program is being given a FIVE STAR RATING for 100% SATISFACTION.

kschang
11-01-2012, 02:11 AM
"Charitable" and "profitable" are mutually contradictory.

Given 5 star rating by who and for what sort of satisfaction?

So what if there's no complaints? You heard any one complaining about Bernie Madoff's consistent returns? Phooey.

You sound like a salesman, not someone armed with facts for a rebuttal.

path2prosperity
11-01-2012, 02:39 AM
Profitable Sunrise is not a Company. It is the Charitable platform of a very successful Collateral Lenders group called Intereef Ltd that handles up to $400 million dollars in bridge loans. Intereef Ltd. is a licensed and registered Corporation based in the UK with one of their offices office based in London, England.

What is their charity registration number?

littleroundman
11-01-2012, 02:41 AM
There's no real need to point out what "cardiobeam" has said above is nothing but a regurgitation of what he/she has been told by "Roman Novak" and those behind Profitable Sunrise.

No documentation, no registrations. no charitable organization permits, no proof of anything.

Instead, what we DO have are the first 2 pages of "Profitable Sunrises" we site.

They are reproduced here EXACTLY as they appear at the link posted underneath each image.

Nothing has been added or removed from the screenshots, other than a border being added.

Readers can decide for themselves if Profitable Sunrise is indeed a multi million dollar financial business.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9192/proj.gif

Profitable Sunrise index page (https://profitablesunrise.com/index.php)

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4272/pro2.gif

Profitable Sunrise loans info page (http://loans.profitablesunrise.com/)

path2prosperity
11-01-2012, 02:48 AM
Given 5 star rating by who and for what sort of satisfaction?



Faith Sloane (http://faithsloan.com/tag/profitable-sunrise/), Ken Russo and various Scamlandpro pimps including one Adlandpro member selling remedies for premature ejaculation! (http://www.realscam.com/f9/skinny-body-care-wellness-product-quack-doctory-huge-rip-off-1593/)

cardiobeam
11-01-2012, 03:18 AM
Profitable Sunrise is not a Charity. It was designed as an "umbrella" under which 20 charities have been invited as Private Groups to receive the benefits from their Collateral lending group, Intereef Ltd.

cardiobeam
11-01-2012, 03:21 AM
Participants all agree that they are very pleased with their results in Profitable Sunrise. No complaints on the company other than their website is very plain.

cardiobeam
11-01-2012, 03:33 AM
As the saying goes... Successful people are open minded people. So let me help you get your facts straight here. Roman Novak moved his business to the UK and registered and was accepted as an International corporation in 2011. His company now called Intereef Ltd. is a legal corporation and licensed business in the UK with an address and building. They are a very quiet company as are most all Hard Money lenders as their clients require privacy. Research Hared Money lenders on google and it will help you understand this world. The charitable platform (arm) called Profitable Sunrise is not a company but is like a sub division that is offering an opportunity for charities to benefit from their program through their participation. I know that nobody in this blog has spoken to Roman but we have many times and we also have the legal documents on the company as well in our possession. I understand everyone's skepticism these days as the world has been very tough for alot of people. My advice is to not spend money on any program that would cause a risk if lost. So far we have seen over 3000 people who are having great results.

cardiobeam
11-01-2012, 03:46 AM
They are not a Charity but there are 20 Charities who head the Private Groups participating under their platform.

Hypanor
11-01-2012, 05:00 AM
So call me a sceptic but...... 2.15% per day? And only 'working days'? Seriously?

Hypothetically - How many businesses would be taking a small $10,000 loan that is going to cost them upwards of $250 PER DAY just in interest (2.15% plus PS's cut, which I'm guessing would be more than an additional 0.35%)? Oh yes, that would be the type of business who has been rejected by banks, and of course can afford to pay back $5000 in 20 working days, on top of the $10,000 loaned.

Who are these loans insured through? What insurance company in their right mind would even consider insuring such outlandish high-risk loans!

'Traditional' Hard Money Lenders interest rates are generally 15-25% APR. I can't even begin to calculate what PS's APR is! I doubt even loansharks get this sort of interest!!

Hypanor
11-01-2012, 05:02 AM
They are not a Charity but there are 20 Charities who head the Private Groups participating under their platform.

Who are these charities? How do we check up with them as to how much they receive from PS?

Hypanor
11-01-2012, 05:15 AM
Such a complex and detailed pre-loan application form. Wish my bank kept it this simple when I applied for a $200k loan!
1750
1751

littleroundman
11-01-2012, 06:13 AM
Roman Novak moved his business to the UK and registered and was accepted as an International corporation in 2011.

Do you have ANY idea at all what you're saying ??

What on earth is an "international corporation" and exactly why the need to be "accepted"

You, sir, are talking gibberish with a capital "B/S"

If I were you I'd stop now before you expose yourself to more ridicule and Mr "Novak" and "Profitable Sunrise" to more scrutiny.

This would have to be one of the most obvious and amateurishly run get-rich-quick schemes I've encountered in recent times.

IOW, go away, you silly little shill type person.

path2prosperity
11-01-2012, 10:52 AM
Such a complex and detailed pre-loan application form. Wish my bank kept it this simple when I applied for a $200k loan!


Who in his or her right mind would approach an outfit like this for a $200Kloan? Have you never heard of loan sharks? This is about the ultimate idocy I have ever seen on a RS thread.

kschang
11-01-2012, 01:00 PM
They are not a Charity but there are 20 Charities who head the Private Groups participating under their platform.

Your sentence makes no sense. Why would a charity head private group, then give their money to an outfit promising outrageous profit? Where's the profit COMING FROM?

GlimDropper
11-01-2012, 01:52 PM
Good Day, my name is Roman Novak, I am the owner and founder of Ice Dollars. I hope our services will be of interest to you. Since you are reading this, I assume that you have already shown interest. We are a team of professionals that will lead you to prosperity and peace. If you follow us, you will shortly praise the Lord that he led you here. By putting your money to work with us, you will make the right decision. You will not only increase your savings, but will also help those in need. Allow me to introduce my team to you. My brother Radoslav Novak is a lawyer and apart from the legal issues is responsible for the marketing. Ruth Ellington is our accountant. Nosuke Koyama is the technical expert responsible for the smooth operation of our website. Everyone is welcome to join us. Our doors are and will always remain open to you.

[Link] (http://www.investorposts.com/showthread.php?t=106460&p=201535&viewfull=1#post201535)

Yet another Roman Novak HYIP scam. successfuldreams.net, MoneyGator.net. I doubt "Roman" is his real name or if it is he'll stop using it after a few more of his HYIPs crash and burn. I think I could find more program names if I wanted to fight the language barrier but it's safe to say that after someone has run a string of scammy little HYIPs their next high yield investment opportunity won't be legit.

PPBlog
11-01-2012, 01:59 PM
Let's see. As LRM points out, Profitable Sunrise is positioned as interested in charitable causes while at once providing a return that would make Madoff blush.

Meanwhile, cardiobeam associates Profitable Sunrise with "Hard Money lenders."

There are any number of instances in which HYIPs married themselves to the propositions of "charity" or capital formation -- or both. ClubAsteria was one such enterprise. Some MLM scammers try to sanitize the frauds by calling themselves "social entrepreneurs."

Longtime observers will recall that the AdSurfDaily scam spawned a follow-up scam known as AdViewGlobal (AVG). AVG operated in part by trying to make members believe that part of their money went to the charitable purpose of preserving the rainforest.

It's not widely known, but another ASD knockoff scam known as AdPayDaily (APD) also emerged. APD used a fax number associated with a purported real-estate company in Kansas that crowed, “To learn how to become a Hard Money Lender and earn 30+% per annum, call [a telephone number] . . .”

"Hard-money lending" can be a ticket to jail, as the operator of Hoss Mortgage Investors of Seattle can attest.

USDOJ: US Attorney's Office - Western District of Washington (http://www.justice.gov/usao/waw/press/2012/October/hoss.html)

Sunrise Capital also is reminiscent of Narc That Car, which eventually tried to sanitize itself by positioning itself as a "crowd-sourcing" company.

PPBlog

GlimDropper
11-01-2012, 03:46 PM
Another one of Roman's HYIPs (http://cold-cash.biz/):


About us

http://cold-cash.biz/images/img_002.png Good Day, my name is Roman Novak, I am the owner and founder of cold-cash.biz. I hope our services will be of interest to you. Since you are reading this, I assume that you have already shown interest. We are a team of professionals that will lead you to prosperity and peace. If you follow us, you will shortly praise the Lord that he led you here. By putting your money to work with us, you will make the right decision. You will not only increase your savings, but will also help those in need. Allow me to introduce my team to you. My brother Radoslav Novak is a lawyer and apart from the legal issues is responsible for the marketing. Ruth Ellington is our accountant. Nosuke Koyama is the technical expert responsible for the smooth operation of our website. Everyone is welcome to join us. Our doors are and will always remain open to you.



This one might be interesting. For one thing we see:




Started
Jan 1, 2005


Running days
2861


Total accounts
0


Active accounts
0


Total deposited
$ 0.00


Total withdraw
$ 0.00


Visitors online
2


Members online
0


Last update
Nov 1, 2012




It either failed to launch or just hasn't launched yet (perhaps they're waiting for sunrise to become unprofitable) but it isn't using privacy protection (yet):




Domain Name:
COLD-CASH.BIZ (http://dns.robtex.com/dns/cold-cash.biz.html)


Domain ID:
D51488545-BIZ


Sponsoring Registrar:
WILD WEST DOMAINS, INC.


Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID:
440


Registrar URL (registration services):
www.wildwestdomains.com (http://dns.robtex.com/dns/www.wildwestdomains.com.html)


Domain Status:
clientDeleteProhibited


Domain Status:
clientRenewProhibited


Domain Status:
clientTransferProhibited


Domain Status:
clientUpdateProhibited


Registrant ID:
CR123980813


Registrant Name:
Danny Webbj


Registrant Organization:
cyberphoenix Internationals


Registrant Address1:
Lanco Business Park


Registrant City:
Legazpi City


Registrant Postal Code:
4500


Registrant Country:
Philippines


Registrant Country Code:
PH


Registrant Phone Number:
+63.9464276721


Registrant Email:
http://dns.robtex.com/k/a1CTIFo0eKdk+ILWGewoLBc9x07QmarRw@gmail.com (http://dns.robtex.com/dns/gmail.com.html)


Administrative Contact ID:
CR123980815


Administrative Contact Name:
Danny Webbj


Administrative Contact Organization:
cyberphoenix Internationals


Administrative Contact Address1:
Lanco Business Park


Administrative Contact City:
Legazpi City


Administrative Contact Postal Code:
4500


Administrative Contact Country:
Philippines


Administrative Contact Country Code:
PH


Administrative Contact Phone Number:
+63.9464276721


Administrative Contact Email:
http://dns.robtex.com/k/a1CTIFo0eKdk+ILWGewoLBc9x07QmarRw@gmail.com (http://dns.robtex.com/dns/gmail.com.html)


Billing Contact ID:
CR123980816


Billing Contact Name:
Danny Webbj


Billing Contact Organization:
cyberphoenix Internationals


Billing Contact Address1:
Lanco Business Park


Billing Contact City:
Legazpi City


Billing Contact Postal Code:
4500


Billing Contact Country:
Philippines


Billing Contact Country Code:
PH


Billing Contact Phone Number:
+63.9464276721


Billing Contact Email:
http://dns.robtex.com/k/a1CTIFo0eKdk+ILWGewoLBc9x07QmarRw@gmail.com (http://dns.robtex.com/dns/gmail.com.html)


Technical Contact ID:
CR123980814


Technical Contact Name:
Danny Webbj


Technical Contact Organization:
cyberphoenix Internationals


Technical Contact Address1:
Lanco Business Park


Technical Contact City:
Legazpi City


Technical Contact Postal Code:
4500


Technical Contact Country:
Philippines


Technical Contact Country Code:
PH


Technical Contact Phone Number:
+63.9464276721


Technical Contact Email:
http://dns.robtex.com/k/a1CTIFo0eKdk+ILWGewoLBc9x07QmarRw@gmail.com (http://dns.robtex.com/dns/gmail.com.html)


Name Server:
DNS3.SH3LLS.NET (http://dns.robtex.com/dns/dns3.sh3lls.net.html)


Name Server:
DNS4.SH3LLS.NET (http://dns.robtex.com/dns/dns4.sh3lls.net.html)


Name Server:
DNS5.SH3LLS.NET (http://dns.robtex.com/dns/dns5.sh3lls.net.html)


Name Server:
DNS6.SH3LLS.NET (http://dns.robtex.com/dns/dns6.sh3lls.net.html)


Created by Registrar:
WILD WEST DOMAINS, INC.


Last Updated by Registrar:
WILD WEST DOMAINS, INC.


Domain Registration Date:
Sat Sep 15 07:33:46 GMT 2012


Domain Expiration Date:
Sat Sep 14 23:59:59 GMT 2013


Domain Last Updated Date:
Wed Sep 19 08:54:08 GMT 2012




That e-mail address, registrant name and organization lead to another string of scammy little short term HYIPS:

EXECUTIVEHYIP.COM (the 2012 version, perhaps not the 2006 one)
BlackGoldWealth.com
ProfitForever.biz

And it's entirly possibly that "Danny Webbj" is really Daniel Matocinos (well that or Cyberphoenix Internationals has two CEOs).

centralman
11-02-2012, 05:17 PM
Is Roman Novak who owns Ice-dollar.com and Money Gator.net. The same person who owns PROFITABLE SUNRISE.COM?

GlimDropper
11-02-2012, 06:35 PM
When you're dealing with scammy little short term HYIP games like Profitable Sunrise, Ice-Dollar, ProfitForever or any of a hundred thousand other of their kind, never assume anything the "owner" tells you is the truth. His name could be Roman Novak or it could be David Matocinos or it could be Sue Magilicuddy, it doesn't really matter because nothing else they tell you is the truth either.

Profitable Sunrise is not a legal and licensed in the UK or anywhere else for that matter. The only charities they contribute to are their own retirement fund and even if they did give to the poor that wouldn't change the fact that they make their money by running a rapid succession of illegal pyramid scams. When P.S. is past they'll have already launched another one. When the name "Roman Novak" get's too notorious for even the pimps of TalkGold and MMG to attract money with they'll just use a different name.

I hate to advertise sites like this one but take a look (http://www.cobrascripts.co/products.php?product=ORO-HYIP-6.2-Green-Clone-php-script), would you like to be "Roman Novak"? That site will sell you all the software you need and hook you up with web hosting, all you'll need to do is handle the marketing. It's pretty easy really, pretend you know how to make a lot of money very fast, all you need is investors and you'll reward them with ASTRONOMICAL interest rates for the money they trust you with. Have a little cash on hand so when the first few investors ask for their profits you can give it to them and they'll tell all their friends and e-mail downlines that you're honest and pay as promised. These friends invest and as long as new investments outpace cash out requests people will sign your praises. But when new inflows of fresh cash slow down you tell everyone that Russian hackers launched a DDOS attack against your site so you can pay them anymore. This lets you keep any money you have left which could be more than enough to buy a new website and start a brand new HYIP to repeat the cycle again. But occasionally you'll have to change the fake name you give people.

Colorz
11-26-2012, 06:44 AM
Hello, i'm new here and registered just to say this for glimdropper: I think you are right in many ways and i really don't want to underestimate your knowledge
in this matter but i just wanted to say this..a few months ago i putted some money on profitable, the money i can miss you know, i was referred by a friend wich i put my blindly trust in because he LIVES from things like this..so if something fail, i don't give a ****..and i don't want to have the feeling that i didn't tried it. But i told my parents about this and when i said the name 'Roman Novak' my mom said '*******, really roman novak? She knew him from business 20 years ago (!) and it was a honest men she told me, this person is real! she is not gonna lie about that..she told me directly thats his brother was a lawyer or something wich i didn't know at that point, i readed that a day later on the site where he tells what his brother does. I can even tell you what other bussines he was then doing and still does know, with succes!
You can call him at the office if you like, test it! Not good enough? Roman novak is doing business for over 20 years.. call him and do my greetings! The only thing i want to say here that this person is very real and does not hide! thats all.. Sorry for my bad english.

with regards,

laidback
11-26-2012, 12:03 PM
Hello, i'm new here and registered just to say this for glimdropper: I think you are right in many ways and i really don't want to underestimate your knowledge
in this matter but i just wanted to say this..a few months ago i putted some money on profitable, the money i can miss you know, i was referred by a friend wich i put my blindly trust in because he LIVES from things like this..so if something fail, i don't give a ****..and i don't want to have the feeling that i didn't tried it. But i told my parents about this and when i said the name 'Roman Novak' my mom said '*******, really roman novak? She knew him from business 20 years ago (!) and it was a honest men she told me, this person is real! she is not gonna lie about that..she told me directly thats his brother was a lawyer or something wich i didn't know at that point, i readed that a day later on the site where he tells what his brother does. I can even tell you what other bussines he was then doing and still does know, with succes!
You can call him at the office if you like, test it! Not good enough? Roman novak is doing business for over 20 years.. call him and do my greetings! The only thing i want to say here that this person is very real and does not hide! thats all.. Sorry for my bad english.

with regards,
Since many of these scam operators pick names out of a hat, are you positive that this "Roman Novak" is the same one your mother knew? Also given that many of these scams are perpetrated by "older" folks, if he is the same person, is he still honest today? Something to think about...!

baylee
11-26-2012, 08:09 PM
Since many of these scam operators pick names out of a hat, are you positive that this "Roman Novak" is the same one your mother knew? Also given that many of these scams are perpetrated by "older" folks, if he is the same person, is he still honest today? Something to think about...!

It seems that there are a awful lot of co-incidences, something else to think about.

Colorz
11-27-2012, 03:40 AM
Since many of these scam operators pick names out of a hat, are you positive that this "Roman Novak" is the same one your mother knew? Also given that many of these scams are perpetrated by "older" folks, if he is the same person, is he still honest today? Something to think about...!

I am 110 procent positive he is the same person because at the point she told me that she knewed a Roman Novak she also told me
his brother was a lawyer or something, i DIDN'T knew that at that point, a day later i readed that on his website from profitable sunrise so i knew it was this Roman Novak she talked about! i am 110 procent sure!! I am not lying.. A friend of my mother who was in the same business and lives 3 miles from me also had some dinners at restaurant with him..this guy is real, more i cannot say. If he is still honest? i know he even helped a friend in troubles with money..at that point i was a young guy (age 11 i guess) Thats all i know, i don't know if he's changed, that i cannot say, what i believe he is a bussinessmen who does what he says, don't shoot me if this isn't! It's all at your risk, i am now 2 months on profitable and i can withdraw my interests whenever i want, a friend of my has putted a number on it that i don't even dare to share here, but he withdraws his interests with ease..no problems at all. And if the administrator still thinks he is not real, he should know that when he puts 50K or more in it, he first have a personal meeting with Roman. (again sorry for the bad english :-) )

klagoosh
12-01-2012, 11:41 PM
My apologies for starting a new thread on this subject. I had no idea the Zeek thing was about this. In fact, (hanging head in embarrassment) I don't even know what the Zeek thing is. It's going to take a while to catch up.

GlimDropper
12-02-2012, 12:08 AM
No problem at all klagoosh, some topics run off track and ever so very soon to be an un profitable sunrise is worthy of it's own thread. When I get a chance I'll copy some of the info here to your thread.

colorz, forgive the lateness of my reply and welcome to RealScam. First off I'm not even sure that a person with a real legal name of "Roman Novak" has anything at all to do with the "Profitable Sunrise" (PS) program and I'll tell you why. PS is not a real company, they don't make loans and they don't share the profit from those loans with their investors. PS is a run of the mill "High Yield Investment program" ponzi game that will last only as long as it attracts fresh investments faster than existing investors ask for their money back.

Think about it, the interest rates they claim to share with their investors are so high that the people supposedly taking out loans from them could save a lot of money by going to loansharks, the sort of people you get a loan from when you can't get money anywhere else knowing that they will break your legs if you don't pay them back on time. Yet for some reason PS charges more interest than the leg breakers?

For the record I am in no way suggesting that PS does physical violence to any of the people who take out loans from them but rather I'm telling you that they aren't issuing loans to anyone. They take the money from one investor and give it to another investor (after keeping their cut) and when they run out of investors they'll close the website down and open another one doing the same thing.

"Roman Novak" may be a peach of a person but if he's running Profitable Sunrise he's a money stealing HYIP thief.

Colorz
12-03-2012, 08:32 AM
Hello glimdropper. Owkay, let's see what we have here..well..high interests, brake some legs..pompoppomm..thiefs..owkay, i got it. You have some serious points brought up here and all i can do is give you is all the credits for that. Yes its true that it's not because i know this guy is real everything he does is right or legal or whatever..i'm not the guy that takes your knowing in question BUT if all the so called hyip programs are ALL ponzi schemes and therefore all the administrators are all thiefs..what about the casinos then? You always loose in casinos..like i said a friend of mine makes a living of it and yes, he knows the risks..many people i think are making money with this and yes there are people losing some money too because they are too greedy..the administrators of this systems gives people the chance to gain some nice money, but you need to keep your head with it..like with everything in life..and YES, between this bunch of administrators will sit a lot of scum and scam..i agree..but really, thieves..? I cannot put the label on all of them because of the opportunities i am now creating for myself..at own risk offcourse. You need a bit of luck with everything, that will never change. About that casino's, nobody that i know has ever earned some real money, real profit from casinos and nobody that i know off lives from putting his money in casinos..so, for wich thief i'm gonna choose you think? ;)

Wizzard7
12-03-2012, 10:56 AM
Let us not forget that Zeek members are also being told to join "Bids that Give".

GlimDropper
12-03-2012, 12:40 PM
Hello glimdropper. Owkay, let's see what we have here..well..high interests, brake some legs..pompoppomm..thiefs..owkay, i got it. You have some serious points brought up here and all i can do is give you is all the credits for that. Yes its true that it's not because i know this guy is real everything he does is right or legal or whatever..i'm not the guy that takes your knowing in question BUT if all the so called hyip programs are ALL ponzi schemes and therefore all the administrators are all thiefs..what about the casinos then? You always loose in casinos..like i said a friend of mine makes a living of it and yes, he knows the risks..many people i think are making money with this and yes there are people losing some money too because they are too greedy..the administrators of this systems gives people the chance to gain some nice money, but you need to keep your head with it..like with everything in life..and YES, between this bunch of administrators will sit a lot of scum and scam..i agree..but really, thieves..? I cannot put the label on all of them because of the opportunities i am now creating for myself..at own risk offcourse. You need a bit of luck with everything, that will never change. About that casino's, nobody that i know has ever earned some real money, real profit from casinos and nobody that i know off lives from putting his money in casinos..so, for wich thief i'm gonna choose you think? ;)

Casinos? Gee, where to start. First off all every casino in my country is licensed, regulated and inspected. If a casino is ripping people off (loaded dice, rigged roulette wheels, what ever) the government knows exactly who owns them and where to find them. None of this is true for Profitable Sunrise (PS).

No casino ever promises it's customers that there is no risk to their money. The notion is absurd on it's face, that's why they call it gambling. You yourself admit there are risks in PS yet what does honest Roman Novak say on his website:


Risk-free

An investment with a certain rate of return and no chance of default. Although various investments (for example, savings accounts or blue chip stocks) meet these requirements, a Treasury bill is the most common example of a riskless investment. Risk-free investments have such a low level of risk that it may be ignored. All our loan operations are insured and each one has a security which is equal to the amount of loan plus the interest on the loan. We use the funds invested by our members. So all your investments are insured by default.



Roman is lying and you know it.

If he instead had said something like:


This is a HYIP ponzi scheme. The only way for some one to make a profit is for another person to lose money. This is illegal in every country and if I ever wake up on the wrong side of the bed some morning I'll just turn the website off and walk away with as much of your money as I can.

Then he would be being honest.

Also, casinos give you free drinks. And I've never heard of a casino up and vanishing like a fart in the wind before people could cash in their chips.

okosh
12-03-2012, 04:20 PM
Hello glimdropper. Owkay, let's see what we have here..well..high interests, brake some legs..pompoppomm..thiefs..owkay, i got it. You have some serious points brought up here and all i can do is give you is all the credits for that. Yes its true that it's not because i know this guy is real everything he does is right or legal or whatever..i'm not the guy that takes your knowing in question BUT if all the so called hyip programs are ALL ponzi schemes and therefore all the administrators are all thiefs..what about the casinos then? You always loose in casinos..like i said a friend of mine makes a living of it and yes, he knows the risks..many people i think are making money with this and yes there are people losing some money too because they are too greedy..the administrators of this systems gives people the chance to gain some nice money, but you need to keep your head with it..like with everything in life..and YES, between this bunch of administrators will sit a lot of scum and scam..i agree..but really, thieves..? I cannot put the label on all of them because of the opportunities i am now creating for myself..at own risk offcourse. You need a bit of luck with everything, that will never change. About that casino's, nobody that i know has ever earned some real money, real profit from casinos and nobody that i know off lives from putting his money in casinos..so, for wich thief i'm gonna choose you think? ;)

Darn it....I had my money on you going with the "Social Security is a ponzi" line but you went with the casino BS :pulling_hair_out:

Colorz
12-04-2012, 04:35 AM
Hahaa okosh hey common man, give me a break lol, i'm sooo sorry i brought that casino bullshit up :-)) damn me..

Hello glimdropper, i know it's kinda harsh to come with a casino example, all i actually wanted too say of them is not that they ripping people off, i know they are
licensed, and regulated and etc. but that people always loose money there, ALWAYS! regulated or not..and yeah, they give people free drinks and food, to make them comfortable so that they put more money in it, its al very obvious. and most casinos are nothing more then money carrousels (or how do you call that in English), you know that, therefore i call them REGULATED (licensed) thiefs. I don't wanna loose everytime my money just to have a good time and some free drinks, i want to cash something too, and yeah i know, it's not the perfect story and yeah it's not the perfect reference, all that ponzi's and that promises, neither do the free drinks and foods in casino's.
I find it strange that someone who i really know is real puts his full name on it, is reachable in reallife and on the phone, is taking this risks..maybe he found a spot in the world where he can hide and no one will ever find him..?
In short, casino's reference is food and drinks for free and no money
Profitable Sunrise (ponzi's whatever) reference is no food, no drinks, and maybe money. (you don't get fatter from it ;-) )
And don't forget, my BEST reference is my friend who lives from it..

funnyjune
12-04-2012, 11:27 AM
Guys thanks for starting this thread, after reading all the stuff here. I am going to invest $200 in this program and cross my fingers for a good return..... WIsh me luck
Its good to read some funny comments here on this thread regarding profit sunrise .. ;)

path2prosperity
12-04-2012, 12:15 PM
Guys thanks for starting this thread, after reading all the stuff here. I am going to invest $200 in this program and cross my fingers for a good return..... WIsh me luck
Its good to read some funny comments here on this thread regarding profit sunrise .. ;)

Why don't you give the $200 to a horse help charity instead of scam aid. I will fish out a post where somebody claims an investment of that amount in Zeek or Profitable Sunrise goes to a horse charity.

Copy from a source which I can provide if you PM or e-mail me.

"I was benefactored with $50 in to this a while ago ... it seems to have gone through several different kinds of upgrades but is not working .... now it is back to the original way it was before. Can you tell me how it works and what it is that I am supposed to do. I don't see any ads to view now. It did look like Zeek for about one week.

Help SAVE ABUSED and UNWANTED HORSES - DONATE - CREDIT CARD

PROFITABLE SUNRISE - 2.17%/business day in our Private Plan - Referrals help horse rescue and Cloud recovery fund."


Redwings Is a Genuine British Horse Rescue Charity. (http://www.redwings.org.uk)

Colorz
12-04-2012, 04:20 PM
Guys thanks for starting this thread, after reading all the stuff here. I am going to invest $200 in this program and cross my fingers for a good return..... WIsh me luck
Its good to read some funny comments here on this thread regarding profit sunrise .. ;)

Heeeey hey hey hold on, wait a minute girl, can i be your referral lol? 2.15procent! :-))) let me know!

baylee
12-04-2012, 05:26 PM
Guys thanks for starting this thread, after reading all the stuff here. I am going to invest $200 in this program and cross my fingers for a good return..... WIsh me luck
Its good to read some funny comments here on this thread regarding profit sunrise .. ;)

I wish you well with your donation.

EagleOne
12-04-2012, 07:25 PM
Guys thanks for starting this thread, after reading all the stuff here. I am going to invest $200 in this program and cross my fingers for a good return..... WIsh me luck
Its good to read some funny comments here on this thread regarding profit sunrise .. ;)

Hmm, why does the proverbial saying, "A fool and his money are soon parted" come to mind?

littleroundman
12-04-2012, 07:46 PM
I am going to invest $200 in this program and cross my fingers for a good return.....

Hmmnn,

no prizes for guessing how you got your forum name.

"cross my fingers for a good return"

That must be straight from the book "Investment Strategies of the Rich and Famous"

I wonder if Warren Buffett and Bill Gates do the same thing when they "invest"

okosh
12-04-2012, 10:35 PM
Guys thanks for starting this thread, after reading all the stuff here. I am going to invest $200 in this program and cross my fingers for a good return..... WIsh me luck
Its good to read some funny comments here on this thread regarding profit sunrise .. ;)

LOL....Too funny :RpS_lol:

Colorz
12-05-2012, 07:18 AM
Hi guys

Now i am here i wanted to ask you guys, because this is what you do, are there maybe programs that you are aware off that can give you a nice amount of money with a faulty proof rate of about 80 procent that you gain your money back? Just a question.

Soapboxmom
12-05-2012, 07:39 AM
Hi guys

Now i am here i wanted to ask you guys, because this is what you do, are there maybe programs that you are aware off that can give you a nice amount of money with a faulty proof rate of about 80 procent that you gain your money back? Just a question.
In a nutshell more education and a real job would cover that!

Colorz
12-05-2012, 08:02 AM
Good one admin, but where i live i give 50 procent from my earnings of my real job back to the state. thats not an option. But it's a beginning :)

Colorz
12-05-2012, 08:10 AM
But, as we learned here, most programs explode after a few weeks and some better programs explode after a year with many people who loss money, what if i tell you there is a program running for 10 years now and everybody is happy with it (at least that i know off..). Probably you know this program..?

Soapboxmom
12-05-2012, 08:25 AM
But, as we learned here, most programs explode after a few weeks and some better programs explode after a year with many people who loss money, what if i tell you there is a program running for 10 years now and everybody is happy with it (at least that i know off..). Probably you know this program..?
If you are aware that any program will eventually "explode" and people will lose money, then what honest person would want to be involved? Legitimate businesses certainly fail, but one does not go into one knowing failure is a 100% certainty and that numerous other desperate people will pay in money that they can't afford to lose.

Colorz
12-05-2012, 09:06 AM
If you are aware that any program will eventually "explode" and people will lose money, then what honest person would want to be involved? Legitimate businesses certainly fail, but one does not go into one knowing failure is a 100% certainty and that numerous other desperate people will pay in money that they can't afford to lose.

Well, it all comes eventually to this if i understand: If you are not 100% sure of something, then don't try it! Am i right? But that's just the point where i have my doubt on, the ONLY 100% certainty that we all can have in our lives is this: we all die.

Soapboxmom
12-05-2012, 09:28 AM
Well, it all comes eventually to this if i understand: If you are not 100% sure of something, then don't try it! Am i right? But that's just the point where i have my doubt on, the ONLY 100% certainty that we all can have in our lives is this: we all die.
I am 100% certain I would never knowingly do anything to harm another! I will die with a totally clear conscience!

Colorz
12-05-2012, 11:31 AM
I am 100% certain I would never knowingly do anything to harm another! I will die with a totally clear conscience!

My friend said to me: look, i do this this and this, but there are always risks involved! you can loose too..it's your choice. I took that risk
with both hands and if i loose, then that's not the fault of my friend, neither it is my fault, i just took a risk! it's nobody's fault, it's like a gambling game where you can steer your luck a little bit if you know what you are doing.
I think you are a very good guy because you would never knowingly do anything to harm another..that probably means that you drive
in an electric car (no gasses that spread deadly CO), you are aware of where your clothes come from (fabriques with children), never put money on the banks (one big PONZI thats now collapsing) and etc.. Where is that 100 procent now?
I think you guys do a very good thing here to help people not too fall in every scam and do some sensibilizing around this subject but saying that someone harms other people because he want too take that risk..a bit far for me i'm sorry. If you go to a casino (again, sorry guys ;-) ) how do your free drink taste if you know how many people has lost their home because of it? Is this your fault too because you betted some money on the same games? Is it the fault of the casino's? is it the fault of the dices? no, it's probably the fault of their gambling addiction.
So, do i harm another one because i put some risk in it..? I know with my totally clear conscience there is a place for everyone in heaven, not? ;-)

GlimDropper
12-05-2012, 11:51 AM
Colorz, there are people who play HYIPs and know them for what they are. They know the risks and take them willingly, I don't really care about them. As I pointed out above on the Profitable Sunrise website "honest" Roman Novak directly and deliberately lies about those risks. You Know He's Lying and You Don't Care, we do. Can I be any clearer?

The people we're concerned for are the people who've never played a HYIP before and believe the lies that people like Roman tell them. It's these people who consistently lose money and the money they lose goes to people like your friends who know how to play the game. There is a ton of false information being spread by the people who profit from these scams so we set up this place to make sure that if people are smart enough to search before investing, they have a chance at finding out the truth.

I'm glad you found this place, I invite you to continue posting. You do a better job of explaining why people shouldn't send Roman their money than we do.

Colorz
12-05-2012, 06:19 PM
Colorz, there are people who play HYIPs and know them for what they are. They know the risks and take them willingly, I don't really care about them. As I pointed out above on the Profitable Sunrise website "honest" Roman Novak directly and deliberately lies about those risks. You Know He's Lying and You Don't Care, we do. Can I be any clearer?

The people we're concerned for are the people who've never played a HYIP before and believe the lies that people like Roman tell them. It's these people who consistently lose money and the money they lose goes to people like your friends who know how to play the game. There is a ton of false information being spread by the people who profit from these scams so we set up this place to make sure that if people are smart enough to search before investing, they have a chance at finding out the truth.

I'm glad you found this place, I invite you to continue posting. You do a better job of explaining why people shouldn't send Roman their money than we do.

Hey tnx admin for the invite, maybe i should explain now why my burger from Mcdonalds that i'm eating right now not looks the same as on the advertisement..

Look, i've got your point, do i care about the eventually lies if it is like it is, no
Do i think you guys do a good job with this forum for the people who aren't aware, yes
Do i think i'm harming people because i put some money at it, no
Does anyone asked me till now what that 10 year program was with all the happy people? no
Should i care about that last question? no

Wizzard7
12-09-2012, 10:47 AM
Some information I received recently indicate that Catherine Parker, Todd Disner, Robert Craddock and Dave & Mary Kettner are affiliates in Profitable Sunrise.

littleroundman
12-09-2012, 11:03 AM
Some information I received recently indicate that Catherine Parker, Todd Disner, Robert Craddock and Dave & Mary Kettner are affiliates in Profitable Sunrise.

Golly gee whiz,

that IS a surprise...........NOT

laidback
12-09-2012, 01:52 PM
Golly gee whiz,

that IS a surprise...........NOT

LOL, I'll file that in my list of startling revelations, right along with "Andy Bowdoin is a crook," and, " the Pope is Catholic"...!

money24seven
01-22-2013, 05:31 AM
I've just had a conversation with a marketer I respect and he has been a member of [referral URL removed by mod]Profitable Sunrise for over 3 years and has got his money out whenever he wanted.

ProfHenryHiggins
01-22-2013, 07:54 AM
I've just had a conversation with a marketer I respect and he has been a member of [referral URL removed by mod]Profitable Sunrise for over 3 years and has got his money out whenever he wanted.


Mr. Cowden, please do not assume that the readers here are geese to be plucked.

There is a large thread already present on this site discussing Profitable Sunrise. If you wish to discuss it, that would be the place to do so.

EagleOne
01-22-2013, 04:33 PM
I've just had a conversation with a marketer I respect and he has been a member of [referral URL removed by mod]Profitable Sunrise for over 3 years and has got his money out whenever he wanted.

Well for that marketer you respect it would be kind of hard to do since it launched onlilne in November 2011. Hmm, some how that doesn't come out to 3 years, and you respect this marketer? Seriously?

intheknow
01-25-2013, 05:05 PM
cardiobeam = nanci jo frazer

scratchycat
01-25-2013, 05:31 PM
cardiobeam = nanci jo frazer

Was she also in Zeek??

Home (http://www.nancijofrazer.com/ABOUT-MS-FRAZER.html)

scratchycat
01-25-2013, 05:37 PM
Looks like it from a Google search.

2893

kschang
01-27-2013, 04:11 AM
Ah, but you know what they'll preach... they promote it because they're in it, and they KNOW it. "How can you promote / denounced something if you're not in it?" They say. :D

DevildocCarebear
02-03-2013, 05:08 AM
I am new to this site. I am skeptical of profitable sunrise. A family member signed me up (with my permission of course) and put money into the program (HYIP, ponzi scheme, etc.). I am hoping to at least get the money back that this family member put into it. I was a member of zeek and recieved about $2,000 before it shut down. We will see what happens with this program. I am sure at some point it will shut down just like zeek. I will keep everyone updated as to how much (or how little) money I make from the $100 that was donated by this family member.

DocD

Nourjan
02-03-2013, 10:24 PM
I am new to this site. I am skeptical of profitable sunrise. A family member signed me up (with my permission of course) and put money into the program (HYIP, ponzi scheme, etc.). I am hoping to at least get the money back that this family member put into it. I was a member of zeek and recieved about $2,000 before it shut down. We will see what happens with this program. I am sure at some point it will shut down just like zeek. I will keep everyone updated as to how much (or how little) money I make from the $100 that was donated by this family member.

DocD

There is a thread on Profitable Sunrise here

http://www.realscam.com/f9/profitable-sunrise-hyip-has-anybody-dug-through-yet-1795/

davidrj54
02-05-2013, 10:35 PM
As the saying goes... Successful people are open minded people. So let me help you get your facts straight here. Roman Novak moved his business to the UK and registered and was accepted as an International corporation in 2011. His company now called Intereef Ltd. is a legal corporation and licensed business in the UK with an address and building. They are a very quiet company as are most all Hard Money lenders as their clients require privacy. Research Hared Money lenders on google and it will help you understand this world. The charitable platform (arm) called Profitable Sunrise is not a company but is like a sub division that is offering an opportunity for charities to benefit from their program through their participation. I know that nobody in this blog has spoken to Roman but we have many times and we also have the legal documents on the company as well in our possession. I understand everyone's skepticism these days as the world has been very tough for alot of people. My advice is to not spend money on any program that would cause a risk if lost. So far we have seen over 3000 people who are having great results.

Thank You for this Input - It is True - The Critics have NOT Talked to Novak and PROBABLY they are in another HYIP competing. The Rich Have Their way of Garnering their Wealth. What have the Poor Have? At least somebody is THINKING of them. To put it in another Perspective: This Scheme Can Be Called "Social Entrepreneurship". A LOT depends on Good People Telling Good People the Good News. May The Good Live Long. By the Way: Is there anything in the World Today that is RISK PROOF ?

ProfHenryHiggins
02-05-2013, 10:47 PM
David... the English language uses capital letters for certain purposes to convey meaning. You aren't.
Do you mind honoring the communication conventions of the language itself, rather than capitalizing the first letters of random words?


Edit: On second thought, never mind. I just looked at your blog and Facebook, and it was plain as day that you are a lunatic. Strawman redemption mythology, sovereign citizen balderdash, and you aren't even in America doing it but Malaysia.

baylee
02-14-2013, 08:37 PM
Don't you just love the scammers who tell the IRS and the Receiver what they are "NOT" going to do and stick their tongue out to them! LOL, I love it!

Here is one who who was issued a 1099 and clawback paperwork from the receiver.

( I just copied and pasted from MMG. The bolded part is my answer.

baylee

post Today, 03:37 PM
Post #9864


MMG Member
**********

Group: Member
Posts: 1,692
Joined: 21-May 09
Member No.: 171,424




QUOTE (misterkailo @ Feb 14 2013, 04:48 PM) *
who's going to pay their taxes and then pay the clawback returns? For me, I'm just writing the whole thing off

I really hope you do what you post. LOL, I really, really hope that you do. It will be good for somebody one way or the other. LOL


--------------------
Some people are educated above and beyond their intelligence.

Eagle Research Associates, Inc. - Home Page (http://www.eagleresearchassociates.org/index.php)

laidback
02-14-2013, 08:51 PM
Don't you just love the scammers who tell the IRS and the Receiver what they are "NOT" going to do and stick their tongue out to them! LOL, I love it!

Here is one who who was issued a 1099 and clawback paperwork from the receiver.

( I just copied and pasted from MMG. The bolded part is my answer.

baylee

post Today, 03:37 PM
Post #9864


MMG Member
**********

Group: Member
Posts: 1,692
Joined: 21-May 09
Member No.: 171,424




QUOTE (misterkailo @ Feb 14 2013, 04:48 PM) *
who's going to pay their taxes and then pay the clawback returns? For me, I'm just writing the whole thing off

I really hope you do what you post. LOL, I really, really hope that you do. It will be good for somebody one way or the other. LOL


--------------------
Some people are educated above and beyond their intelligence.

Eagle Research Associates, Inc. - Home Page (http://www.eagleresearchassociates.org/index.php)
Yep...! Funny thing about receivers and 1099 forms, they usually send a copy to the IRS. Grab the popcorn folks...!

littleroundman
02-14-2013, 09:10 PM
Funny thing about receivers and 1099 forms, they usually send a copy to the IRS.

By law, he is required to send them.

laidback
02-15-2013, 12:08 AM
By law, he is required to send them.

(I was just being polite...)

okosh
02-15-2013, 12:43 AM
By law, he is required to send them.

Since when do ponzi players, shills and reff whores give a rats about the law??....

littleroundman
02-15-2013, 01:32 AM
Since when do ponzi players, shills and reff whores give a rats about the law??....

True, but there's "not giving a rats' ass about the law" and then there's "deliberately pissing off the Tax Department"

okosh
02-15-2013, 01:56 AM
True, but there's "not giving a rats' ass about the law" and then there's "deliberately pissing off the Tax Department"

I hope they decide to "deliberately piss off the tax department".....Is about time if not long overdue that the IRS took a long hard look at the tens of thousands of undeclared dollars that the Ken Russo's, Faith Sloan's and Chad Foss's of this world shove into their pockets via SolidTrustPay and Alertpay.....

STP accounts are in real names....Withdraws done via bank wire.....So would not be hard at all for the IRS to follow the paper trail and look into their bank accounts over the past 7years(or more) to see how much these scammers have failed to declare on their income tax returns....

littleroundman
02-15-2013, 02:15 AM
So would not be hard at all for the IRS to follow the paper trail and look into their bank accounts over the past 7years(or more) to see how much these scammers have failed to declare on their income tax returns....

Exactly.

All it would take is one politician or one senior bureaucrat to wake from his/her slumber, realize the cost to the taxpayers they are supposed to represent and institute an action plan and the face of the online HYIP ponzi fraud biz would be changed forever.

It's not like the top 10 HYIP ponzi pimps are anonymous or hard to find.

Sure it may cost a few more dollars than they are able to recover, but, it sure as hell would put the frighteners up the HYIP ponzi "industry" for a while.

Whip
02-15-2013, 08:57 PM
True, but there's "not giving a rats' ass about the law" and then there's "deliberately pissing off the Tax Department"

They're talking the big game but they're running to satisfy those tax obligations as fast as possible so that no one looks at them any further.
They pay it and kiss the governments ass while posting what a big man they are standing up to the government and telling them to suck ass.

Finix
02-16-2013, 07:42 PM
Since when do ponzi players, shills and reff whores give a rats about the law??....
You tell us. You used to play, no? And promote. Did you lose respect for the law entirely in the process? I always looked at it as game to be played strictly online and with make belief money. Started out with $500 egold, PTR payouts from clicking links. It never occurred to me to turn it into real money.

busttheblock
02-17-2013, 10:05 PM
You tell us. You used to play, no? And promote. Did you lose respect for the law entirely in the process? I always looked at it as game to be played strictly online and with make belief money. Started out with $500 egold, PTR payouts from clicking links. It never occurred to me to turn it into real money.


Finix, keep up the good work in mmg forum with jarret. Unbelievable that these "trusted" admins all of a sudden in the mmg forum are coming out of the woodwork. Look at yodaman, jarret and a couple others that have recently decided to run their own ponzi scams. They have only been forum members for a short time and all of them just happen to be upgraded members of the forum to fool the sheep forum members to believe the are trusted admins for some reason. F'ing snakes!

busttheblock
02-17-2013, 10:37 PM
I wonder how many mmg sheep will realize that member goshenjelah and the other newer members of mmg forum that run their own programs are scammers trying to fleece the sheep. Unreal that rysero is get congratulated for running a seriously major flop ponzi scam! What the hell is wrong with these id*iots?

Finix
02-18-2013, 10:24 AM
Finix, keep up the good work in mmg
You can stop right here. I don't work for you. What I say to other MMG members is my business.

Gregg
03-29-2013, 03:21 PM
Hahaa okosh hey common man, give me a break lol, i'm sooo sorry i brought that casino bullshit up :-)) damn me..

Hello glimdropper, i know it's kinda harsh to come with a casino example, all i actually wanted too say of them is not that they ripping people off, i know they are
licensed, and regulated and etc. but that people always loose money there, ALWAYS! regulated or not..and yeah, they give people free drinks and food, to make them comfortable so that they put more money in it, its al very obvious. and most casinos are nothing more then money carrousels (or how do you call that in English), you know that, therefore i call them REGULATED (licensed) thiefs. I don't wanna loose everytime my money just to have a good time and some free drinks, i want to cash something too, and yeah i know, it's not the perfect story and yeah it's not the perfect reference, all that ponzi's and that promises, neither do the free drinks and foods in casino's.
I find it strange that someone who i really know is real puts his full name on it, is reachable in reallife and on the phone, is taking this risks..maybe he found a spot in the world where he can hide and no one will ever find him..?
In short, casino's reference is food and drinks for free and no money
Profitable Sunrise (ponzi's whatever) reference is no food, no drinks, and maybe money. (you don't get fatter from it ;-) )
And don't forget, my BEST reference is my friend who lives from it..

I think you need to call your mum and ask her if she's seen Roman lately....

GlimDropper
04-25-2013, 01:42 PM
I just want anyone who finds this thread in the future to know that we have a much longer and more detailed discussion of Pro Sun and Nanci Jo Frazer available at this link. (http://www.realscam.com/f9/profitable-sunrise-hyip-has-anybody-dug-through-yet-1795/)