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View Full Version : Well known MLMer sues MLM company for $5 million



littleroundman
06-04-2012, 06:59 AM
Well known in the MLM world as a staunch advocate of the oft criticized MLM telecom and energy company, ACN, Matt Rasmussen has announced:

I am suing an MLM company for $5 million dollars

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc153/thelittleroundman/mlmsue.jpg

http://www.mlm.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35092 (http://www.mlm.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35092)

Whip
06-04-2012, 09:12 AM
Would this be the more than staunch acn spammer supporter that resided on scam?

littleroundman
06-04-2012, 09:22 AM
Would this be the more than staunch acn spammer supporter that resided on scam?

The very same.

Although his absence of late has been noted.

Whip
06-04-2012, 09:31 AM
The very same.

Although his absence of late has been noted.

Gee....what happened? Everyone else was wrong. This was going to take over the world and skype was irrelevant. lol.

littleroundman
06-04-2012, 09:52 AM
Gee....what happened? Everyone else was wrong. This was going to take over the world and skype was irrelevant. lol.

Of course, the fact it never happened after months and months of the usual suspect ACN reps crowing it would, has nothing to do with the fact said ACN reps are now totally conspicuous by their absence.

littleroundman
08-03-2012, 06:33 AM
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc153/thelittleroundman/Scams/matt.jpg

http://mlm.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35092&start=20#p332148 (http://mlm.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35092&start=20#p332148)

Soapboxmom
08-03-2012, 09:40 AM
Well, that case is down the commode. Lenny Clements? Seriously??? One would think he would hire real experts like Dr. Jon Taylor, Robert Fitzpatrick and Tracy Coenen. I am surprised that place hasn't pulled his thread.

Soapboxmom

littleroundman
08-03-2012, 09:59 AM
I certainly hope no one on the defense team asks Lenny how his research into the efficacy of the Amega Wand is going.

Whip
12-22-2012, 04:37 PM
What ever happened with this pipe dream? Can't find anything about it anywhere.

Lil Ol' Radical Me
12-22-2012, 06:24 PM
What ever happened with this pipe dream? Can't find anything about it anywhere.

Guess Lenny tried to Wand the case and it disappeared. Haven't seen anything since, so it's the only explanation I can come up with.

Soapboxmom
12-22-2012, 08:10 PM
It never hurts to ask!

MLM.com - MLM Discussion Board - MLM Tools • View topic - I am suing an MLM company for $5 million dollars (http://mlm.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35092&p=338717#p338717)

Lil Ol' Radical Me
12-23-2012, 05:27 AM
It never hurts to ask!

MLM.com - MLM Discussion Board - MLM Tools • View topic - I am suing an MLM company for $5 million dollars (http://mlm.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35092&p=338717#p338717)

Hehe. Curiosity killed the cat. Waiting avidly for a response to your enquiry

Whip
12-23-2012, 10:58 AM
There won't be one as there never was any suit. He just loves acting the big man.

Soapboxmom
12-23-2012, 12:52 PM
Titan Global, LLC et al v. Organo Gold Int'l, Inc et al http://dockets.justia.com/images/gavel.gif

More Sharing ServicesShare (http://addthis.com/bookmark.php?v=250&username=justia) |


Plaintiffs:
Titan Global, LLC , Mathew Rasmussen and Lisa Rasmussen


Defendants:
Organo Gold Int'l, Inc , Holton Buggs, Jr., Romacio Fulcher , Jane Doe Buggs, Rramon Fulcher, Sr , Tyra Fulcher , Kyle A Solon , Does, John 1-25, Does, Jane 1-25, Does, John 26-50, Does, Jane 26-50 and XYZ Corporation and LLC , 1-25





Case Number:
5:2012cv02104


Filed:
April 26, 2012





Court:
California Northern District Court


Office:
San Jose Office


County:
Santa Cruz


Presiding Judge:
Lucy H. Koh


Referring Judge:
Howard R. Lloyd





Nature of Suit:
Other Statutes - Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations


Cause:
18:1961


Jurisdiction:
Federal Question


Jury Demanded By:
Both






http://static.justia.com/images/icons/feed.png Follow case documents by RSS (http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/5:2012cv02104/254260/feed)
Available Case Documents

The following documents for this case are available for you to view or download.


Date Filed
#
Document Text


December 13, 2012
51 (http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/5:2012cv02104/254260/51/)
http://dockets.justia.com/images/menu-gavel1.png ORDER SETTING DEADLINE TO FILE AMENDED COMPLAINT. Signed by Judge Lucy H. Koh on 12/13/2012. (lhklc4, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 12/13/2012)


December 2, 2012
50 (http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/5:2012cv02104/254260/50/)
http://dockets.justia.com/images/menu-gavel1.png ORDER by Judge Lucy H. Koh granting in part and denying in part 29 Motion to Dismiss (lhklc4, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 12/2/2012)


September 18, 2012
45 (http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/5:2012cv02104/254260/45/)
http://dockets.justia.com/images/menu-gavel1.png ORDER VACATING MOTION HEARING. Signed by Judge Lucy H. Koh on 9/18/2012. (lhklc4, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 9/18/2012)


July 2, 2012
34 (http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/5:2012cv02104/254260/34/)
http://dockets.justia.com/images/menu-gavel1.png Order by Hon. Lucy H. Koh granting 33 Stipulation.(lhklc1, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 7/2/2012)


Last Document Downloaded: December 14, 2012 02:53:55 PST

The numbers for the docs are live links to the actual court docs!

Soapboxmom
12-23-2012, 03:24 PM
Calendar for: Judge Lucy H. Koh
Courtroom 8 4th Floor, San Jose

Wednesday, Jan 9 2013

5:12-cv-02104-LHK - Titan Global, LLC et al v. Organo Gold Int'l, Inc et al
Case Mgmt Conference Further
Looks like Rasmussen is going for the gold so to speak!

Whip
12-23-2012, 03:57 PM
Ah. I stand corrected.

Soapboxmom
12-23-2012, 04:28 PM
Nothing like one MLMer calling another MLM or MLMer a noogie head! We know how hilarious it is to watch MLMers and other scammers file lawsuits and commit business suicide in public. This should be a gas! And, I am with you, Whip, and can't believe he actually filed!

oldfriend
12-24-2012, 02:22 PM
Nothing like one MLMer calling another MLM or MLMer a noogie head! We know how hilarious it is to watch MLMers and other scammers file lawsuits and commit business suicide in public. This should be a gas! And, I am with you, Whip, and can't believe he actually filed!



Reading the court docs, it looks more like he's just upset over people at Organo gold trying to recruit his downline....

Lil Ol' Radical Me
12-24-2012, 07:50 PM
Reading the court docs, it looks more like he's just upset over people at Organo gold trying to recruit his downline....

"upset over people at Organo gold trying to recruit his downline"? You have to be kidding. A professional like Rasmussen! :windy:

littleroundman
12-24-2012, 08:14 PM
"upset over people at Organo gold trying to recruit his downline"? You have to be kidding. A professional like Rasmussen! :windy:

We'll obviously have to wait and see what happens when and if the case gets past the preliminaries stage, but, one can't help feeling from the outside, the case has the potential to open up a can of worms for the whole M.L.M. industry, and not necessarily in a good way.

Not being au fait with the inner workings of the M.L.M. industry or any contractual obligations, the first thing that springs to mind is we have a COFFEE company being sued by an ENERGY company.

The second consideration seems to be whether or not any company can engage in restraint of trade against its' "IBOs" when such trade is in an unrelated market and whether or not "IBOs" can be recruited at all, or whether they're stuck where they are.

Should be interesting.

Lil Ol' Radical Me
12-24-2012, 08:48 PM
We'll obviously have to wait and see what happens when and if the case gets past the preliminaries stage, but, one can't help feeling from the outside, the case has the potential to open up a can of worms for the whole M.L.M. industry, and not necessarily in a good way.

Not being au fait with the inner workings of the M.L.M. industry or any contractual obligations, the first thing that springs to mind is we have a COFFEE company being sued by an ENERGY company.

The second consideration seems to be whether or not any company can engage in restraint of trade against its' "IBOs" when such trade is in an unrelated market and whether or not "IBOs" can be recruited at all, or whether they're stuck where they are.

Should be interesting.

I'll go with Fascinating! Unethical v Even more Unethical.

Whip
12-24-2012, 08:58 PM
Since the mlmers like to say it's about the 'product' and not recruiting, this suit should have no merit.

littleroundman
12-24-2012, 09:13 PM
I'll go with Fascinating! Unethical v Even more Unethical.

For some reason when I read your post, I got this image of a rattlesnake pit, with all of the rattlesnakes trying to bite each other.

oldfriend
12-25-2012, 10:55 AM
Since the mlmers like to say it's about the 'product' and not recruiting, this suit should have no merit.


That's what they like to say.....but as we see with the current Herbalife / Ackman fiasco, its not about the products....hardly ever....

The court docs - plaintiffs charges - seem to imply that Organo Gold was cross recruiting. Caused some contention, and probably loss of revenues, for Matt R...

Makes me wonder how many people have dropped their current MLM in favor of ACN with Matt through the course of his career with them.

oldfriend
12-25-2012, 11:01 AM
We'll obviously have to wait and see what happens when and if the case gets past the preliminaries stage, but, one can't help feeling from the outside, the case has the potential to open up a can of worms for the whole M.L.M. industry, and not necessarily in a good way.



I doubt it. Highly. IBO's are their own person/entity....a company doesn't own them, and unless their policy states specifically that an IBO is forbidden to participate in any other MLM simultaneously (even a non competing one) I don't see how a company or a regulation, a policy, a law, could forbid it...

Whip
12-25-2012, 11:25 AM
I doubt it. Highly. IBO's are their own person/entity....a company doesn't own them, and unless their policy states specifically that an IBO is forbidden to participate in any other MLM simultaneously (even a non competing one) I don't see how a company or a regulation, a policy, a law, could forbid it...

Well, out in the real world, it's not forbidden. I can sell whatever manufacturer's goods I want in my business. And, of course, they are in direct competition with each other for my business.
This is where the farce about mlm comes in to play. They are not 'business owners'. They do not get to make their own decisions. They are pawns.

oldfriend
12-25-2012, 11:29 AM
Well, out in the real world, it's not forbidden. I can sell whatever manufacturer's goods I want in my business. And, of course, they are in direct competition with each other for my business.
This is where the farce about mlm comes in to play. They are not 'business owners'. They do not get to make their own decisions. They are pawns.

A good point - and a good possibility that Matt's charges are pretty stupid, based on this.

littleroundman
12-25-2012, 11:37 AM
That's my point.
If the judge decides IBOs are NOT independent business owners or agrees with Matts' proposition, it really could alter the face of MLM

Lil Ol' Radical Me
12-25-2012, 01:12 PM
That's my point.
If the judge decides IBOs are NOT independent business owners or agrees with Matts' proposition, it really could alter the face of MLM

I would have thought that IBOs are effectively commission salesmen whose commissions derive primarily from pyramid style recruitment sales and not from the sale of the primary product by themselves. They have no real independence. They generally have to pay for their own sales and marketing expenses but their sales activities are restricted to the terms and conditions set by the MLM. They have no control over pricing, supply policy etc etc. Frequently there are obligatory product purchases by the IBO and, consequently, by their recruits.

IOW commission salesmen without the normal sales support (financial or otherwise) And that is just for the legal MLMs. lol

Soapboxmom
12-26-2012, 12:28 PM
This could get really fun. When Rep X sued Advantage Conferences, Tim Darnell and Jack Weinzierl, I stepped in as lead plaintiff after tens of thousands had been spent on attorneys fees and I represented myself in district court. Only a lawyer can represent someone else and this rep was out of state. The scammers and their attorney lied about discovery matters and we went to trial before they were forced to turn over the discovery as the judge had previously ordered.

At trial after all sorts of evidence had been brought in and Weinzierl's attorney, who was so clueless he worked for free for months ($1000.00 retainer and then $20,000.00 worth of hours that were not paid last I heard), argued that he was an IBO. The judge out of the blue decides Weinzierl is under the company umbrella and lets him off of the hook on that basis. Hilariously, after the case was over the judge spoke off of the record and lambasted Weinzierl and Darnell for ripping the elderly rep X off and advised everyone to let the man upstairs see to everything. So, the case ended with a religious based lecture which was beyond ridiculous.

No matter what the judge rules, any case involving MLM will expose the seedier side of this "industry" such as it is. The coming discovery and motions will be an absolute riot. If the reps are found to be IBOs by the higher courts, the MLM companies will continue to look the other way while reps wildly misrepresent the earnings potential and medical efficacy of products. If the reps are adjudicated to be under the corporate umbrella then these MLMs could be held liable for all the many misrepresentations reps make. Fascinating stuff!

davidbatchelor
12-26-2012, 01:19 PM
Benefits of MLM:
1. No boss

2. Low overhead

3. Low start up cost

4. Unlimited profit potential

5. No employees

6. No headaches or emergencies (provided one has done their due diligence before getting involved).

7. Financial and time freedom

Benefits of Traditional Business:
1. No boss

Most people think traditional business is “the way of life” because it’s been hammered into our minds over and over again. Of course there are many successful traditional businesses and I commend them for that, however there is also a lot of risk, capital and headaches that come with it.

I used to be a sceptic because I wasn't properly educated on mlm/network marketing and I listened to the masses when I should have been paying attention to the people I wanted to model.

Been involved in both, I know which one I prefer.

Soapboxmom
12-26-2012, 01:21 PM
Welcome to the forum David.

97% or higher proven loss rate for participants! Need I say more?

waverider
12-26-2012, 04:13 PM
spot on david, but MLM's a funny game in that way. With many, in the prospecting phase the company and its products are rarely mentioed up front. The vast majority of people out there, and that includes honest, decent hard-working people, just can't sell, prospect or present. They attend a business presentation seminar where key leaders who are successful to some degree in their (MLM) business show "how easy" it is - like mainstream advertising, like Lynx deodorant is supposed to turn you into a chick-magnet - I always look at anything MLM in this way : You've joined "the business", you've started buying and using or consuming the product, whatever it may be, vitamins, juices, general products and services (such as Amway, for example), but then you discover it's either not as easy as they said at the meeting, or your timing isn't right and you can't find the time for prospecting, meetings, etc - you stop being an active distributor (or affiliate), the question remains: DO YOU CONTINUE USING THE PRODUCTS, even though you're no longer "building the business" - or do you stop your scheduled delivery?

The sustainability of a particular MLM depends what happens to the SD monthly deliveries to affiliates who are no longer active, if a significant number continue ordering and using the product(s) regardless, that's a very attractive aspect of an MLM.

Note most MLM companies seem to have one thing in common - pricing of their products - generally considerably higher than their retail equivalents.
Look at ACN here in Australia, the scam watchers should be all over this company, firstly it costs about $400 to join, that's a "training and coaching fee", rather than what most companies do, by 'front-loading' to get you to buy a bunch of stuff to pile up in your shelves, etc, so when you got friends around, they can see you're a 100% user of the business you're trying to promote. ACN goes out there offering a discount of a whopping 3% off your electricity if you switch to their electricity company, they have a system on-line where you can enter the customer's electricity bill to they can work out how much they can save before joining up. You guessed it, very very few customer bills I've analyzed actually resulted in any saving, and ACN won't deal with businesses, only domestics, so forget my big spending contacts with five-figure electricity bills, such as a butcher, bakery, etc.

oldfriend
12-28-2012, 11:08 AM
The sustainability of a particular MLM depends what happens to the SD monthly deliveries to affiliates who are no longer active, if a significant number continue ordering and using the product(s) regardless, that's a very attractive aspect of an MLM.



Not to mention, one of only a few ways to differentiate between an all out scam / pyramid right out of the FTC's definitions vs any other MLM (that while legal may not be ethical).

Lil Ol' Radical Me
12-28-2012, 12:13 PM
Benefits of MLM:
1. No boss

2. Low overhead

3. Low start up cost

4. Unlimited profit potential

5. No employees

6. No headaches or emergencies (provided one has done their due diligence before getting involved).

7. Financial and time freedom

Benefits of Traditional Business:
1. No boss

Most people think traditional business is “the way of life” because it’s been hammered into our minds over and over again. Of course there are many successful traditional businesses and I commend them for that, however there is also a lot of risk, capital and headaches that come with it.

I used to be a sceptic because I wasn't properly educated on mlm/network marketing and I listened to the masses when I should have been paying attention to the people I wanted to model.

Been involved in both, I know which one I prefer.

Benefits of MLM: (cont'd)

1. Nearly no money and lots of overheads to "develop your business"

2. Garage full of overpriced goods that you have to buy every month/quarter to qualify for your commissions

3. Friends and family who start trying to avoid you as all you ever talk about is your MLM, who do not want to buy anything or join anything

4. Damaged friends and family who follow your lead and end up losing money

oldfriend
12-28-2012, 01:58 PM
Benefits of MLM: (cont'd)




Oops! I think you meant "drawbacks." :duh:

Hmm.....where's the "tongue firmly in cheek" smiley. lol

Lil Ol' Radical Me
12-28-2012, 04:53 PM
Oops! I think you meant "drawbacks." :duh:

Hmm.....where's the "tongue firmly in cheek" smiley. lol

I think to those that RUN the damned things, they are benefits.

p.s. someone has to make the jokes with a straight face.

oldfriend
01-01-2013, 07:43 PM
p.s. someone has to make the jokes with a straight face.



I never could do that very well.....give myself away to easily. heheh

CrimeBustersNow
01-06-2013, 02:09 PM
ACN - Donald Trump Challenge

Click >>> ACN (http://www.cbnow.org/html/acn.html)

CrimeBustersNow
01-07-2013, 11:28 AM
This is one of the best written indictments of the world of the advance fee MLM Industry I have come across. It is worth reading and digesting every word.


EXCERPT:

Propaganda and MLM Expansion

The MLMers of the new millennium are starting to sound a lot like the gangsters of yesteryear. In an era where management science and the law generally condemn MLM, they've "got their own experts," from academia or law, who are "on the payroll." Confidence, remember, is key.

Regardless of all the vehement denials, MLMs are all to some extent pyramid schemes, and pyramid schemes are illegal. Sure, some are "getting way with it" but so did [have] the Mafia for decades. It is hard to stop a juggernaut, especially one that has taken such pains to look legitimate and misunderstood, that is highly organized, and that has so much money from its victims to propagandize, lobby, and defend itself. And so the exploitation goes on.

If these guys show up in your neighborhood, you are either "in" or "out," family or target, friend or foe. Suspicion rules the day; everyone has an "angle"; greed supplants innocence. The "neighborhood" is turned into a marketplace, and may never recover from the blow.

The ethical questions remain: Are MLMs a morally acceptable way to make money? Are they--and will they continue to be--legitimate?

MLM Proselytizing: Beneath Begging?

If money is needed that badly, why not simply ask friends and family for help rather than taking money from them under false pretenses--and also selling them a bill of goods? By "sponsoring" them, you have not only conned them and profited at their expense, you have made them feel like losers, since they are not able to make a success of the hopeless MLM concept.

Once seen, only the morally blind, or consciously criminal, could continue in such a "business."

But wait, perhaps you could recruit... your mother!

Click >>> http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html
~~~~~~~

dave-CBNow

www.crimebustersnow.org (http://www.crimebustersnow.org)

Exposing Government, Police, & Corporate Corruption
One Fraudulent Scheme at a Time

Hypanor
01-07-2013, 10:45 PM
ACN - Donald Trump Challenge

Click >>> ACN (http://www.cbnow.org/html/acn.html)

Now thats a reality show I would watch!

I signed up to ACN here in Aus through a friend for my home phone service. Then the persistent calls and emails came - "come to a meeting", "would you like more spending money", etc. I never knew it was an MLM (this was 18 months ago) until she started pestering me. Needless to say, we didn't talk to each other much after that as the conversation was always steered to ACN and when would I be signing up. Not sure how she's going with it now (if at all).

FWIW, I cancelled the ACN service after about 8 months as they couldn't offer bundling of products, commercial, or internet services - like normal telco's do...

oldfriend
01-08-2013, 07:48 AM
Now thats a reality show I would watch!

I signed up to ACN here in Aus through a friend for my home phone service. Then the persistent calls and emails came - "come to a meeting", "would you like more spending money", etc. I never knew it was an MLM (this was 18 months ago) until she started pestering me.



That's because MLMers who actually DO make an outside retail sale tend to only do so in order to get their foot in the door for upselling on starting a business.

Its all about getting business builders. Not customers. Customers aren't where the real money's at. Distributors on the other hand.....5 who get 5 who get 5 who get 5, all earning commissions off those below them until it falls apart are where its at.

oldfriend
01-08-2013, 07:50 AM
This thread is really about a scammer suing a bunch of scammers.

Who'll win? The scammer?