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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
... me and my 24+ year long MLM adventure
"my 24+ year long MLM adventure"?
That's putting it mildly!
Lenny! Wake up! We're talking about you again!
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
lol. he put himself to sleep typing another of his ridiculous diatribes.
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Originally Posted by
kschang
There's MLM, then there's PBPS (product-based pyramid scheme).
The average Joe, or even a seasoned "veteran" of Network Marketing can't tell them apart... But even if they cloned a MLM, it can morph into a PBPS if the management let it devolve, and let the "leaders" use cult tactics on the sheeple and turned a blind eye.
Regarding your comment above, although we may disagree on the frequency and magnitude, I think you're right, and completely agree with your general point.
But be careful, Kasey. Trying to apply reason, logic, or any degree of rational thinking – or, God forbid, fairness and accuracy – to your commentary here is rarely tolerated for long. Especially if it is anything less than 100% compliant with this board's "all aspects of every MLM company are always bad" doctrine, no matter to what degree of ignorance, or even absurdity, you may have to submit yourself to.
Which begs the question, why do you lower yourself by participating in this troll haven? It really is beneath you, Kasey. Good people can disagree, even passionately, and still be civil and respectful. I think we've been, so far, an example of that. Well, other than the couple of personally demeaning comments you've directed towards me only within this forum, which actually I understand. When in Rome... And you are not the only public MLM critic I've come to respect. In fact, I can think of several others (to varying degrees), one of which would surprise a lot of people on this board. Debating the merits, or demerits, of MLM just doesn't have to be this hateful and ugly, Kasey. I'm not saying that's how you are conducting yourself here, but it absolutely describes the company you're in.
If you ever want to have an actual conversation, I'd love to tell you the story of how RealScam came to be (including evidence and sources, suitable for vetting). It will be quite enlightening. And hey, we can also debate the virtues of living in San Francisco (I'll take the con side, please).
If you're up for it, well, unlike the vast majority of RealScam participants, you know where to find me.
Len
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Gee, that was a fast year, Lenny.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Originally Posted by
Len Clements
I'd love to tell you the story of how RealScam came to be (including evidence and sources, suitable for vetting). It will be quite enlightening.
Len
I'd love to hear your version of that story as well.
If it's half as entertaining as your account of how your website was hacked, then we just might have a best seller on our hands!
Originally Posted by
Len Clements
Which begs the question, why do you lower yourself by participating in this troll haven?
Len
Interesting comment.
Who was it that said...
When I use the term “troll” I am not intending it as an insult, as if I am likening someone to an ugly creature that lives under a bridge. An “internet troll” is term used to define a specific type on online antagonist:
Per the Wiki listing for “Internet Troll”:
“In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.”
A perfect example within this forum would be Doc Bunkum and littleroundman.
Actually, Lenny, you're the troll here.
What exactly do you think comments like...
Originally Posted by
Len Clements
Trying to apply reason, logic, or any degree of rational thinking – or, God forbid, fairness and accuracy – to your commentary here is rarely tolerated for long. Especially if it is anything less than 100% compliant with this board's "all aspects of every MLM company are always bad" doctrine, no matter to what degree of ignorance, or even absurdity, you may have to submit yourself to.
... are, other than an attempt to provoking other users here into a desired emotional response?
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Originally Posted by
Len Clements
Regarding your comment above, although we may disagree on the frequency and magnitude, I think you're right, and completely agree with your general point.
But be careful, Kasey. Trying to apply reason, logic, or any degree of rational thinking – or, God forbid, fairness and accuracy – to your commentary here is rarely tolerated for long. Especially if it is anything less than 100% compliant with this board's "all aspects of every MLM company are always bad" doctrine, no matter to what degree of ignorance, or even absurdity, you may have to submit yourself to.
Which begs the question, why do you lower yourself by participating in this troll haven? It really is beneath you, Kasey. Good people can disagree, even passionately, and still be civil and respectful. I think we've been, so far, an example of that. Well, other than the couple of personally demeaning comments you've directed towards me only within this forum, which actually I understand. When in Rome... And you are not the only public MLM critic I've come to respect. In fact, I can think of several others (to varying degrees), one of which would surprise a lot of people on this board. Debating the merits, or demerits, of MLM just doesn't have to be this hateful and ugly, Kasey. I'm not saying that's how you are conducting yourself here, but it absolutely describes the company you're in.
If you ever want to have an actual conversation, I'd love to tell you the story of how RealScam came to be (including evidence and sources, suitable for vetting). It will be quite enlightening. And hey, we can also debate the virtues of living in San Francisco (I'll take the con side, please).
If you're up for it, well, unlike the vast majority of RealScam participants, you know where to find me.
Len
Lenny, the board's motto is read, post and decide. Kasey is a valued contributor here. We are all here to express our personal opinions. The board staff all respect and support one another and we certainly don't always agree. We consider Kasey one of the team and the door is always open if he should ever wish to help run the site. It is all volunteer and the owner funds it. No one makes a dime off of this site.
I personally hope what I post will educate and enlighten as well as entertain our readers. In the end only the reader can decide what to take away from our threads here as it should be.
I too would love to hear your version of the story of how this board came to life. As I was the first admin brought in by the original owner, I know everything and could verify your account, so do please fill us all in.
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Originally Posted by
littleroundman
The sad thing is, Lenny, you think you're doing yourself and your cause some sort of good with your childish drivel by posts.
In reality, your circle of influence grows smaller every time you stick your head up.
There! Fixed it for ya!
It seems like in this "industry" common sense is not all that common!
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
My my, deja vu all over again. Some things never change in MLMland, the attacks on poor Lenny are never ending, and I wonder why, he isn't a bad guy as far as I have read, and many of his articles were all well written and researched, so why are so many so disrespectful here? I remembered I had registered years ago, but now I remember why I never posted until today, too many angry hateful comments. I'm all for calling out scams, but why are you picking on Lenny, has he every promoted a scam? You can disagree, as I heard mod state, but attacking a persons character as some have done is pretty sad. Oh well, carry on, my visit was short as it was several years ago.
Good luck to all,
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Originally Posted by
JOIN-FREE
My my, deja vu all over again. Some things never change in MLMland, the attacks on poor Lenny are never ending, and I wonder why, he isn't a bad guy as far as I have read, and many of his articles were all well written and researched, so why are so many so disrespectful here? I remembered I had registered years ago, but now I remember why I never posted until today, too many angry hateful comments. I'm all for calling out scams, but why are you picking on Lenny, has he every promoted a scam? You can disagree, as I heard mod state, but attacking a persons character as some have done is pretty sad. Oh well, carry on, my visit was short as it was several years ago.
Good luck to all,
Welcome back JOIN-FREE. In regard to your post you made a couple of points that I want to address. May I suggest that you need to read further than you have and you would find your answers. And yes, Len has been involved in a couple of MLM scams. For someone who is such an expert on MLM, he could not figure out that Empower Network was an illegal pyramid scheme, nor that the mega-wand was all nanotech psycho-babble technology. You did not have to buy one to know it. There are others, but you get the idea. This does not mean that he hasn't also done some good work because he has. He has exposed some bad MLM programs and I congratulate him for doing so.
But you see Len is just as guilty of the personal attacks against his detractors just like you say the people here at RS do. There is one major difference though. Len bans his detractors and in several cases has deleted entire threads in forums he controlled. You might want to ask Len why he was terminated as a Mod at SCAM.com and his name was banned, which is a first. Like I suggested, you need to do a lot more reading.
EagleOne
Author: "Robbing You With A Keyboard Instead Of A Gun - Cyber Crime How They Do It" available in soft cover and eBook at Amazon.com
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
I realized shortly after I started this thread that I had a brain fart at the time.
I forgot - Lenny DID start his own MLM at one point in time.
2004 - Epic Network
But it never got off the ground.
Reading Lenny's fascinating explanation why - Len Clements Steps Down as Owner and CEO of Epic Network - made me realize that it's not as simple as it appears to start one of these businesses.
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Originally Posted by
EagleOne
Welcome back JOIN-FREE. In regard to your post you made a couple of points that I want to address. May I suggest that you need to read further than you have and you would find your answers. And yes, Len has been involved in a couple of MLM scams. For someone who is such an expert on MLM, he could not figure out that Empower Network was an illegal pyramid scheme, nor that the mega-wand was all nanotech psycho-babble technology. You did not have to buy one to know it. There are others, but you get the idea. This does not mean that he hasn't also done some good work because he has. He has exposed some bad MLM programs and I congratulate him for doing so.
But you see Len is just as guilty of the personal attacks against his detractors just like you say the people here at RS do. There is one major difference though. Len bans his detractors and in several cases has deleted entire threads in forums he controlled. You might want to ask Len why he was terminated as a Mod at SCAM.com and his name was banned, which is a first. Like I suggested, you need to do a lot more reading.
Lynn, I have a better idea. Rather than make JOIN-FREE do all that digging for dirt he'll never find (or for the lies you all completely make up about me, such as those above), how about you and I get on a live call, which we can both promote in advance to our respective audiences, and you can ask me all these questions yourself? That way you can expose me before a much larger audience, including my own peers, the entire exchange can occur within an hour instead of over a number of days, and I don't have to leave a feast for all the trolls here to engorge themselves on.
How about Saturday, March 21st? That gives us plenty of time to get the word out, and for you and your team of "scam busters" to compile a mountain of incriminating evidence against me. What time works for you? How about "high noon" (PST). Seems kind of fitting.
I anxiously await your acceptance.
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Lenny is just obsessed with live debates. The rest of us are putting things in writing! Why is it Clements won't document said lies he brays about here in writing and refute them???
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Once again Lennys' ego keeps him here defending the indefensible while ensuring his already deplorable reputation is further diminished.
Keep pushing those Lennybuttons, guys
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Lenny C lements
Len was banned quite a while back and was wondering if his ban could be lifted?
How many of you would enjoy having Len C back here on scam.com?
I can remember when all of the conflict happened with Len C but have no idea why he was permanently banned.
Heck we can't even type his last name, ouch. Len ******
I could go ahead and lift the ban but I may not be a Mod any longer for doing it and he would most likely be banned once again.
I've asked Admin about this but haven't heard back.
What did ole Lenny C do to get a permanent ban?
Did he get in a fight with Sojustask?
Admin is going to lift the bans on Lenny C and nomaxim.
Hey Lenny!
Guess what?
They just started a thread about you on your old stompin' grounds - scam.com.
You're welcome back there!
Just a heads up - you can thank me later for letting you know.
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Originally Posted by
Doc Bunkum
Hey Lenny!
Guess what?
They just started a thread about you on your old stompin' grounds - scam.com.
You're welcome back there!
Just a heads up - you can thank me later for letting you know.
you can't tell him here.......you have to tell him on a live phone call where he controls the buttons and you won't be able to say anything to begin with and then he can insult you in front of his adoring fans. Haven't you learned anything yet? you know......that ole gag.
Rather than make JOIN-FREE do all that digging for dirt
still boycotting people doing their own due diligence I see. Shocking from an mlmer. lmao
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Originally Posted by
Len Clements
Lynn, I have a better idea. Rather than make JOIN-FREE do all that digging for dirt he'll never find (or for the lies you all completely make up about me, such as those above), how about you and I get on a live call, which we can both promote in advance to our respective audiences, and you can ask me all these questions yourself? That way you can expose me before a much larger audience, including my own peers, the entire exchange can occur within an hour instead of over a number of days, and I don't have to leave a feast for all the trolls here to engorge themselves on.
How about Saturday, March 21st? That gives us plenty of time to get the word out, and for you and your team of "scam busters" to compile a mountain of incriminating evidence against me. What time works for you? How about "high noon" (PST). Seems kind of fitting.
I anxiously await your acceptance.
So let me get this straight. You claim that I spoke lies, but you won't identify what those lies were, but want to have a live call to debate my lies instead of just pointing them out here. Seriously? It wouldn't be because you can't control the dialogue here like you could on your call now would it? Sorry, not interested in having a call with you that you control. Besides, I already have speaking engagements every Saturday this month and wouldn't be available anyway.
There is a recording of you defending Empower Network by giving them a pass as to not being illegal. In fact the link to that very video is right here in this thread. You see I did listen to the whole thing so I know what you said. You should go back and play it again to refresh your memory and your waffling.
So point out my lies right here, and we will have a discussion of them. Don't worry, your posts won't get censored, edited, or changed in any way. I look forward to the discussion.
By the way, in your next rant against someone you disagree with it is "Pathetic," not "PETHITIC" as you posted in your reply to a critic of yours. I thought someone with such a high IQ and was a member of MENSA knew this. Now before you rush to claim that I am lying, here is your statement and I quote:
"How dare you even suggest that I don’t answer questions that are asked of me. I JUST SPENT SIX GDF HOURS ON THIS BOARD ANSWERING YOUR PETTY, NIT-PICKY, PETHITIC, EVASIVE, COWARDLY QUESTIONS! Oh, I’m sure there’s your favorite somewhere that I’ve missed today. SO SORRY I DID’T SPENT 7 HOURS!"
Oh and one more thing: In your last sentence, it is "spend" not "spent." Just wanted to be helpful.
But if I were to ever have a debate with you it would be about how MLM is the worse business model going and all the lies they have to tell to con people into joining. You know like "Be your own Boss, Own your own Business, Everyone needs our products, etc., etc., etc.."
EagleOne
Author: "Robbing You With A Keyboard Instead Of A Gun - Cyber Crime How They Do It" available in soft cover and eBook at Amazon.com
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
I see Lenny Clements lurking. Is he going to enlighten us about his continuing involvement in Yoli? He seems to have petered out in 2010 from what googles up. The suspense is killing us!
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Originally Posted by
Soapboxmom
I see Lenny Clements lurking. Is he going to enlighten us about his continuing involvement in Yoli? He seems to have petered out in 2010 from what googles up. The suspense is killing us!
he may be trying to put a curse on us with his mighty amega wand.
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Originally Posted by
Soapboxmom
Lenny is just obsessed with live debates.
Ackmanscam (2).jpg
Yes he certainly is.
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Originally Posted by
EagleOne
So let me get this straight. You claim that I spoke lies, but you won't identify what those lies were, but want to have a live call to debate my lies instead of just pointing them out here. Seriously? It wouldn't be because you can't control the dialogue here like you could on your call now would it?
You don't need to explain your cowardice. I completely understand why you would feel so much safer debating me within this forum, where you have a whole crowd of like-minded supporters to cover your butt. If we were on a call it would be just you and I. One on one. Actually, I should be flattered that you believe I would "control the dialogue" in that situation.
Originally Posted by
EagleOne
Sorry, not interested in having a call with you that you control.
I was going to set up a mutually agreeable time and date, send you a conference line number, then call into that line at the designated time, spend maybe two minutes setting up the premise for the call, then have each of us introduce ourselves, followed by you, one by one, making the same claims you just made here, and then I respond. In what should be ample time remaining (if you agree to a one hour limit), you can then freely make any other accusations that you would like me to respond to. But, if you feel this is somehow giving me too much control, then here's what I suggest: You set up a mutually agreeable time and date, you then send me a conference line number, then after we call into the conference you spend however long you want setting up the call, you decide how long our introductions should be, and who goes first, then you, one by one, make the same claims you just made here, and then I respond. In the time remaining, you can then freely make any other accusations that you would like me to respond to. That way you will be in complete control.
Originally Posted by
EagleOne
Besides, I already have speaking engagements every Saturday this month and wouldn't be available anyway.
That date was a suggestion, Lynn. Not a command. Pick what ever date works for you. I've got appointments throughout the month as well, but would be more than willing to reschedule them for this.
Originally Posted by
EagleOne
There is a recording of you defending Empower Network by giving them a pass as to not being illegal. In fact the link to that very video is right here in this thread. You see I did listen to the whole thing so I know what you said. You should go back and play it again to refresh your memory and your waffling.
Great! Have that cued up at the right place and let's play it on the call. That would be even better for you, right?
Originally Posted by
EagleOne
So point out my lies right here, and we will have a discussion of them. Don't worry, your posts won't get censored, edited, or changed in any way. I look forward to the discussion.
No, they'll all just be buried under a pile of troll turds. I'm suggesting a neutral playing field. You seem to be the one insisting it be on your home turf.
Originally Posted by
EagleOne
By the way, in your next rant against someone you disagree with it is "Pathetic," not "PETHITIC" as you posted in your reply to a critic of yours. I thought someone with such a high IQ and was a member of MENSA knew this.... Oh and one more thing: In your last sentence, it is "spend" not "spent." Just wanted to be helpful.
It's ironic you would use "pathetic" as an example of one of my misspellings. That kind of describes the level of desperation one must resort to when all the ammo they have left in their effort to discredit someone is to point out their typos. Come on, Lynn. You're one of the few here who actually posts under their real name, so you are personally accountable for your conduct. Doesn't having to resort to mocking my intelligence by citing two misspellings cause you to feel even a little ashamed or embarrassed?
Originally Posted by
EagleOne
But if I were to ever have a debate with you it would be about how MLM is the worse business model going and all the lies they have to tell to con people into joining. You know like "Be your own Boss, Own your own Business, Everyone needs our products, etc., etc., etc.."
Well, like I said, I'm sure we'll have plenty of time after you're done exposing me to indulge your blood lust for destroying MLM.
That is, if that's where you want to take the call. I'd prefer it be mutually and evenly controlled by both of us, but if you insist on having control, it's all yours.
Now what's your excuse?
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
Lenny, we are all anxiously awaiting a Yoli update. Hop to, lad!
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
No, they'll all just be buried under a pile of troll turds.
still hiding behind that one are ya? just like all the other times, a special thread can be set up that no one else post in. simple. you really are pretty stupid for the alleged 155 IQ.
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
The amazing thing about this is, Lennys' uncontrollable ego has him convinced:
* anybody cares about his opinion
* he's enhancing his reputation
* the more verbose he is, the more chance he has of "winning" the (non existent) debate
* we're not serious when we say we're deliberately prodding his fragile ego and watching him once again make a fool of himself
When the truth of the matter is, all he's doing is providing his many critics with enough LennyQuotes to keep the internet amused for years
"Wind Lenny up and watch him melt down" may yet become an Olympic sport
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
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Re: Why Not Start Your Own MLM?
It appears that Lenny was up late last night . . . 2:45 a.m. to be exact.
Maybe he should try taking this . . . I heard that it's great for insomnia:
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